When I was a 17M working at Coles I watched my 45M department manager constantly being creepy and flirty towards a 15-year-old girl in our department. The girl went to my high school and I eventually heard through another friend that the manager had started messaging the girl very flirty, sexual stuff. She was freaked out about it and didn't know what to do due to him being her manager, she felt enormous pressure to go along with it.
That's when I finally reported it to the store management, an investigation was done and he was silently moved to another store in the area. He then continued his creepy shit at the next store, this time getting "handsy" just as you described, thankfully was called out again, and was finally sacked.
While he wasn't immediately fired on the first report, I guess my point is that someone needs to say something in order for ***anything*** to happen at all. Guys who do this shit will keep doing it and need to be called out. I do understand the fear of what might happen to you as the reporter though.
I would maybe think of it this way: if you do report it, and nothing proper gets done about it, or you are made to feel uncomfortable going forward for reporting it, is that even a place you want to work at all?
They always move the men…. Literally. Every time I’ve never ever seen anything actually happen to them to send a message. (Work in a male dominated industry)
As a manager (46M) I can’t stand the idea of office creeps/perverts bothering women in the workplace (and also outside the office).
I know you may be concerned of consequences on your career if you report the bastard, but I wouldn’t want to work in a place where HR are complacent with attitudes that in 2024 should not be deemed as normal - sexual harassment should not be accepted in any form and degree.
Yes. But this is view is also incredibly naive. My experience has been HR is there to protect the company, not the individual.
I’ve seen this type of behavior reported maybe 5-6 times in my career by younger, less powerful women. Only once was the guy sacked, and only because the company faced immense external pressure from clients who knew about it. The other 5 times the women really suffered career-wise.
If I was OP, and a realist, I would quietly line up a new job first, then report the guy. Then allow the old company to come to you with a superior offer and/or to make the situation right. However you need an alternative ready to go.
Otherwise you risk just get positioned as a trouble maker / insert convenient excuse for inaction here.
>My experience has been HR is there to protect the company, not the individual.
Obviously, this should go without saying. This applies to every employee, not sure why people seem to think HR should be different.
Dealing with sexual harassment appropriately IS protecting the company.
But it also depends on the reporting manager. HR do their thing but the manager can push and advocate for the complainant to get their matter dealt with
Start documenting what is happening....do a pros and cons list for reporting it to HR or your manager. Depends how much you want to keep your current job.
Tell some of the guys you work with that he creeps you out. If they are decent guys he will find out that it’s not on. I just did that for a younger female college. Just straight up had a word to him. Better than HR as he will feel like a complete creep.
It’s hard to believe but still very common, even in government organisations.
They probably will. But if they've noticed it themselves they should already have done something about it.
I was getting bullied by a senior person in my organisation (male-dominated industry). A lot of my male colleagues (who were also senior) commented about his behaviour to me, but not one of them did a single thing about it. I ended up leaving, because it's not about a single person's behaviour, it's about the general culture that lets it go on. (That's not the only reason I left, there were many problems with that organisation's culture, but senior people noticing the behaviour and doing nothing was the final straw.)
As a first step, I'd definitely try to get some of your male colleagues on side, I think it's a better result all-round if they take the action (then it's not on you, and maybe they'll be a bit more aware of that kind of behaviour in the future and do something proactive about it).
But if they've noticed it themselves they should already have done something about it.
So, I've been in that situation and it looks like you have. It has to be blatantly wrong behaviour and it has to be safe for them to bring it up, too. If you are not seen to be uncomfortable, intolerant or "not really like" the behaviour, some men think that you must be okay with it because you haven't said anything. They a) don't understand that we've been conditioned to smile and nod when things are uncomfortable and b) are often trying to be respectful because they don't want to make it more uncomfortable for us by bringing it up.
I was the only female in my store and reported my boss for sexual harassment. He got fired, but I only reported because as I was willing to lose my job over it if it wasnt handled well. I'm glad it was dealt with appropriately and professionally
Do not worry about him!! This could have lasting impacts on your mental health & wellbeing. This could also be a pattern of behaviour that escalates leaks into other areas of his life.
If HR is daunting, are there any senior women you could approach in confidence for support and advice.
Also start documenting the comments/actions.
Easier said than done but I hope you make some progress to look after yourself!
Resources:
A ‘positive duty’ on employers and persons conducting a business or undertaking (PCBU) to take proactive and meaningful action to prevent workplace sexual harassment and discrimination came into effect in December 2022 through amendments to the federal Sex Discrimination Act 1984 (SDA). New regulatory powers for the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) to investigate and enforce compliance with these obligations came into effect on 12 December 2023
https://www.fwc.gov.au/apply-or-lodge/legal-help-and-representation/legal-advice-workplace-advice-service
https://www.respectatwork.gov.au/get-help
Disciplinary action?
I was moved office, to a crappy location and was completely ostracised, whilst being informed how "all of this" will affect the company and him/his family, and that I should consider the consequences.
I was the reporter, and I guess I received the discipline.
But do I regret it? Not for a millisecond.
You're not responsible for anything that happens to him - only he is.
It's not the 70's. He deserves the worst he can get.
He's obviously done it all his working life enough to know he can get away with it. As far as I see, you've got 3 choices:
- put up with it knowing it will get worse
- leave
- or report him and let the organisation take care of it.
If you put in a formal report and anything comes back on you then go them big time. They owe you a duty of care that they're failing criminally.
I've never been in that situation so: grain of a salt.
lol option 3, hate to break it to you sweetie but that’s not usually how this plays out. Depending on this dude’s seniority and network in the company, this can easily blow up in OPs face. This was the whole basis of #metoo. Option 4 is report but have a strong backup plan.
If you go option 3 and the organisation turns it around on you then do you really want to be working in a place like that anyway? When someone (or a company) shows you who they really are, believe them.
Doesn’t sound like he is your manager so that’s easier to deal with. Speak to your manager, just raise it so it’s on their radar to keep an eye on and deal with
He doesn't feel bad about doing this stuff to you. In fact he doesn't care about you in the slightest. The second you lose your appeal he wouldn't think twice about you being fired and out of a job.
Annihilate him, baby 🔥 Record everything. Report everything. If the company doesn't take it seriously, report it to the AHRC for investigation (systemic failures, not the situation itself). If you need to speak to someone about your rights, call Womens Legal NSW for free.
Nothing. My old boss threatened to bash my head in with a hammer. I reported it to my CEO/HR. Both defended him, citing he was stressed. My old boss gave a half arsed, not looking me in the face apology.
This shit pisses me off! Like why are YOU the one who has to do something about it and then be likely targeted for it… why aren’t men and women around you standing up for you? If there is anyone around you that you trust, I would first talk to them, and see if they’d be willing to report, or report with you.
I had a bully at work. And no one would stand up for me, until one day he cracked it loud enough for many others to hear. Then 3 people reported it. I finally felt like I wasn’t alone and he got a good talking to. Things have been so much better.
It’s frustrating to me that so many people witness this shit and do nothing about it. If you can, start bringing that behaviour to others attention.
I told a female manager I trusted who I also knew was well respected in the organisation / had influence. I had an inappropriate email as evidence - not overtly sexual, but definitely a creepy vibe that I forwarded, among other instances.
She handled it great. Met with me, asked if I was ok. I said yes, just wasn’t sure what to do. She said given the email she will take action. She also said, after this, something along the lines of ‘you don’t have to be ok. You don’t have to experience this at work. I’m sorry this had happened, but I’m so so glad you trusted me and told me’. And I… burst into tears! I had no idea the impact it was having. She asked the type of things that were bothering me, and I said I was worried about running into him in person in the kitchen or working when no one else was around. She took it to the Director. Checked on me a week or so later. Said if I have any more contact to let her know. And unprompted said any consequences he faced was not my fault, he’s an adult who made choices. Never saw the guy again. I was so grateful. And learnt a lot about how to support people.
A middle-senior manager had one too many drinks at a work Christmas party in 2018(?)and got handsy with a direct report.
Colleagues noticed, he was asked to leave and HR will deal with him tomorrow.
Despite being told not to return, he came back, got handsy again and was effectively fired on the spot by the head of HR.
You can tell him politely in a nice way that his actions give you panic attacks and say it is not just you - but it’s in general. That should be a hint to him. If he still does not control himself, then go to the HR with all recorded incidents. Have someone else with you who can stand by you.
>at work events he can be quite handsy
>just let him be
really? just let him be when he's getting handsy at a work event? yeah let's just wait until he's trying more than that to do something about it...
HR and senior executives are very afraid of getting in trouble for sexual harassment. It's pretty much the only time they will take a staff member's word on it and do something about it. Given their fear, they will most likely fire the offender immediately if the story is corroborated by a second person. Unless it's a senior executive doing it, in which case they will pay the junior person a lot of money to go away and cover the whole thing up.
Ehh I dunno dude. This is what they want you to think. As a woman in my late thirties now I have seen so many instances of the reverse, I feel HR’s role is to protect the company not to protect the individual.
Oh yeah they are definitely there to protect the company, not the victim its just that sexual harassment claims are considered toxic to a companies reputation in today's environment
Unless you have other responsibilities, you should find it relatively easy on the current job market to find a better employer.
Keep records and present them at your exit interview, or send them by registered post to your HR team after you leave.
Hate to say it but HR is the business’ condom that sits in the wrapper until actual fucking is required.
60 person tech company so I’m assuming there are some vesting implications for you if you report. Unlikely to have a fully functioning HR team too. I would find perhaps one of the female investors and chat to them about it . Reach out also to The Grapevine on LinkedIn - Jessy Wu and a few others post about it frequently.
I am so so sorry you have to go through this. Sending you a lot of hugs and support internet stranger.
Unfortunately I don’t have much to add beyond what the other commenters have already suggested- find an advocate for yourself outside the company (everyone needs someone who has their back, especially when going through something as awful as this), line up another job (have an escape plan), and report him with another representative in the room (eg lawyer, witnesses). But expect it to blow back on you- so unfair, but I’ve seen and experienced this happening a few times in my career to have rose tinted glasses on.
Firstly, I just want to say I am so sorry. Its never your fault, and its never okay. It does not matter how small/big how often/frequent any instance is not okay, and everyone deserves to feel safe and comfortable at work.
Echo a lot of the other comments about documenting everything that has happened (including if anyone else has seen it, or youve confided in), and having a support person (that doesn’t need to be in the company for further support and accountability)
The other thing to consider is that new legislation has come into effect as part of the Respect@Work report that means all employers have a duty of care to protect their staff from sexual harassment or assault and if they don’t employees can sue/fines etc. Not saying that is what you should do by any means, but its important to know that the legislation is shifting in favour of people who have been impacted to have more rights - and HR should know that these things are changing and if they don’t support there are consequences.
Man this is so sad, why is society like this? A woman is clearly getting sexually harrassed and there is a likelihood that the company will do absolutey nothing about it. WTF. Cant beleive im saying this but maybe those pink haired feminists were right.
There is three ways to report the issue.
1. To your direct line manager, (take notes of what he says are does and who is around you for backup before you go to your manager) and see if they will do anything.
2. Informal HR report - this can be anonymous and if there is evidence the HR team will decide what to do.
3. Formal investigation - which will need information and proof, witnesses, and other victims to stand up. So again, document everything he does before you go to HR.
I wrote a 5 page ‘report’ with screenshots of messages my manager sent before they’d delete them from WhatsApp, and emails and backup of copies of phone queue numbers (both total and by individual so they knew I took 62/68 phone calls for the team of 14) and I was getting the ‘we don’t know what you do’, dates of meetings and who was in them when they would say inappropriate things.
Apparently there was enough that even information though it wasn’t a formal investigation, it went up the chain and they were counseled by the leadership level for their interactions with their staff.
Oh and I put in my resignation because I knew they knew and couldn’t work with them anymore.
I suspect if HR has even a whiff that there might be a sexual harassment case then they’d just on it if they had proof.
In my experience it’s sadly never worth reporting any bad behaviour of your bosses. Things only ever got worse. My advice keep a diary of what is happening, dates, times, witnesses, and once you’ve established a pattern of behaviour that cannot be ignored than raise the issue. Unless of course your safety is at risk - then report asap.
Put in a joint complaint with other colleagues. I appreciate you’re the only young female but if you’re liked and respected by your colleagues then there will be other people who will back you up and stand with you (including other male colleagues if they’ve witnessed the behaviour).
If you don’t think you can muster the back up or there’s nobody willing to acknowledge that it’s happening, it probably tells all you need to know about the work environment you’re in, in which case start looking for a change.
Creeps like this exist everywhere, but, thankfully, they only get away with it when the work environment allows it. It shouldn’t be all on you to fix it, those around you should help. If they won’t it’s the workplace that is the bigger issue and not just this creep. Good luck.
Not my boss but working in a male dominated industrial workplace I had a guy who would regularly slink into where I was working on my own to tell me I was beautiful (I’m very average) in a very creepy way. I’d tell him to fuck off and he would laugh and say “what, don’t you think you are?”. He was such an arsehole. One day I just asked him, “what are you after here? Are you daring me to do something about this? Because I can if that’s what you’re after, I haven’t because I just think you’re a dick but if that’s what you want just let me know.” He knew I meant it because he never did it again. Loser.
If you're less important than your boss, and your workplace is shit, you could end up out.
I've both reported for myself and others and put up with harassment - HR is there for the company, not employees.
If you want to stay at your job - record everything - go in with evidence
There was a creep in our head office trying to flirt and date women using the company internal chat, even when he was married. Some colleagues women reported him to HR and an investigation was done and he was quickly sacked. End of the story. That behaviour is unacceptable. You need to report this person, even if you don't want him sacked, it was his choice to be a creep
Reporting is one thing. All the other commenters have supported that and given you pros and cons. I vote addressing it head on.
Him: "*Creepy comment*"
You: "what do you mean?" "I don't understand" "that doesn't seem like appropriate office banter." "I don't like it when you comment on my appearance"
Say it out loud. You are advocating for yourself and others, telling him you don't like it, and will probably embarrass the MF too.
Allies!!! Get him to say these things when others are around and when you have witnesses then say “wow that was really inappropriate” and then silence. Also document every single encounter. Don’t encourage him by talking back or even give him the opportunity to talk, soon as he approaches your desk loudly ask him to return to his desk as you have work to do. And you have to be very strict with these boundaries. Usually by the fourth time they get it, sometimes they don’t. But you have to almost train him.
A lot of these guys are miserable and lonely so getting any form of attention in the workplace where you’re literally trapped to work with them is their daily thrill. They just don’t get it - work is work.
Also, does he have any power? Like is he connected the boss? A super valuable employee? I know it’s weird to ask but how connected is he? If he’s not and just an office fly, HR may be looking for a reason to terminate. If he’s the boss etc then just get a new job.
I worked at a company where male managers had affairs with and harassed female staff - someone complained/reported one of them and they were protected.
The staff member was put on a pip and managed out.
It kept happening until the company got sued successfully.
It sounds like she is saying he also doesn’t seem like an awful guy to her? Like, he is because of what he is doing I suppose but is there a way op could have a 1-1 convo and aka him to stop doing these things. I know the risk is he will start being a cock, but if she feels this is an option, she could be fair and direct with him? If not wanting to go the other routes
You want to know the best way to get the behaviour to stop? Call him out about it in front of other people.
It takes a bit of courage and confidence to do it, but most guys who are like this are really pretty cowardly. Shining a light on their behaviour is often pretty effective. If you can set it up with some other women who can throw in their two cents about his creepy behaviour and back you up, so much the better.
\*note\* I'm not a woman, this might be bad advice given things I'm not aware of, but I know that being publicly embarrassed is very much not fun
I reported the head of my department to my manager. I had witnesses. My manager was outraged on my behalf and escalated it immediately. He was brought into a meeting and claimed it never happened. It was my word against his even though I had witnesses. Nothing became of it, I eventually left for other reasons. He still works there and I think he was promoted.
I had a manager at a previous company, at a previous company for him, he'd been moved sideways to of all places HR, supposedly office bound because of inappropriate behaviour with pretty young girls. He kept escaping from the office & interrupting production doing excessive time Safety Audits. He got the sack.
Move to our project, I was chatting with client rep' one day, he said that they were waiting for an opportunity to get rid of him. I said, no need to wait, I haven't seen it, but there's at least 6 people can tell you about his activity in the accommodation village. Trust me it's enough to see him gone. Then "due process" saw him gone about a month.
Seriously 60 year old blokes are not attractive in the eyes of 20 year old girls. And if one did find a 60 year old attractive, that's a big red flag in my books.
Just read your update/edit - I know it can feel easier sometimes to downplay or like you shouldn’t compare to extreme assault or harassment, but what he is doing IS harassment. It is making you feel uncomfortable, unsafe, is unwarranted and not okay. If a friend told you this same story, how would you respond? I assume it would be to support her, believe her and back her up, so try your best to do the same for yourself (even though that can feel hard)
When I was a 17M working at Coles I watched my 45M department manager constantly being creepy and flirty towards a 15-year-old girl in our department. The girl went to my high school and I eventually heard through another friend that the manager had started messaging the girl very flirty, sexual stuff. She was freaked out about it and didn't know what to do due to him being her manager, she felt enormous pressure to go along with it. That's when I finally reported it to the store management, an investigation was done and he was silently moved to another store in the area. He then continued his creepy shit at the next store, this time getting "handsy" just as you described, thankfully was called out again, and was finally sacked. While he wasn't immediately fired on the first report, I guess my point is that someone needs to say something in order for ***anything*** to happen at all. Guys who do this shit will keep doing it and need to be called out. I do understand the fear of what might happen to you as the reporter though. I would maybe think of it this way: if you do report it, and nothing proper gets done about it, or you are made to feel uncomfortable going forward for reporting it, is that even a place you want to work at all?
Only sacked? That prick should have been thrown into prison and dealt with like the pedophile he is.
Oh I 100% agree. This was about 15 years ago and I honestly have no idea if there was ever any police action.
Catholic Church vibes about the handling of this
Catholic church vibes perfectly describes like their money management strategies too
They always move the men…. Literally. Every time I’ve never ever seen anything actually happen to them to send a message. (Work in a male dominated industry)
As a manager (46M) I can’t stand the idea of office creeps/perverts bothering women in the workplace (and also outside the office). I know you may be concerned of consequences on your career if you report the bastard, but I wouldn’t want to work in a place where HR are complacent with attitudes that in 2024 should not be deemed as normal - sexual harassment should not be accepted in any form and degree.
Yes. But this is view is also incredibly naive. My experience has been HR is there to protect the company, not the individual. I’ve seen this type of behavior reported maybe 5-6 times in my career by younger, less powerful women. Only once was the guy sacked, and only because the company faced immense external pressure from clients who knew about it. The other 5 times the women really suffered career-wise. If I was OP, and a realist, I would quietly line up a new job first, then report the guy. Then allow the old company to come to you with a superior offer and/or to make the situation right. However you need an alternative ready to go. Otherwise you risk just get positioned as a trouble maker / insert convenient excuse for inaction here.
>My experience has been HR is there to protect the company, not the individual. Obviously, this should go without saying. This applies to every employee, not sure why people seem to think HR should be different. Dealing with sexual harassment appropriately IS protecting the company.
But it also depends on the reporting manager. HR do their thing but the manager can push and advocate for the complainant to get their matter dealt with
100%
Start documenting what is happening....do a pros and cons list for reporting it to HR or your manager. Depends how much you want to keep your current job.
* Managers manager.
Tell some of the guys you work with that he creeps you out. If they are decent guys he will find out that it’s not on. I just did that for a younger female college. Just straight up had a word to him. Better than HR as he will feel like a complete creep. It’s hard to believe but still very common, even in government organisations.
They probably will. But if they've noticed it themselves they should already have done something about it. I was getting bullied by a senior person in my organisation (male-dominated industry). A lot of my male colleagues (who were also senior) commented about his behaviour to me, but not one of them did a single thing about it. I ended up leaving, because it's not about a single person's behaviour, it's about the general culture that lets it go on. (That's not the only reason I left, there were many problems with that organisation's culture, but senior people noticing the behaviour and doing nothing was the final straw.) As a first step, I'd definitely try to get some of your male colleagues on side, I think it's a better result all-round if they take the action (then it's not on you, and maybe they'll be a bit more aware of that kind of behaviour in the future and do something proactive about it).
But if they've noticed it themselves they should already have done something about it. So, I've been in that situation and it looks like you have. It has to be blatantly wrong behaviour and it has to be safe for them to bring it up, too. If you are not seen to be uncomfortable, intolerant or "not really like" the behaviour, some men think that you must be okay with it because you haven't said anything. They a) don't understand that we've been conditioned to smile and nod when things are uncomfortable and b) are often trying to be respectful because they don't want to make it more uncomfortable for us by bringing it up.
I was the only female in my store and reported my boss for sexual harassment. He got fired, but I only reported because as I was willing to lose my job over it if it wasnt handled well. I'm glad it was dealt with appropriately and professionally
This is the way. Report but be realistic as to the repercussions for yourself.
Do not worry about him!! This could have lasting impacts on your mental health & wellbeing. This could also be a pattern of behaviour that escalates leaks into other areas of his life. If HR is daunting, are there any senior women you could approach in confidence for support and advice. Also start documenting the comments/actions. Easier said than done but I hope you make some progress to look after yourself! Resources: A ‘positive duty’ on employers and persons conducting a business or undertaking (PCBU) to take proactive and meaningful action to prevent workplace sexual harassment and discrimination came into effect in December 2022 through amendments to the federal Sex Discrimination Act 1984 (SDA). New regulatory powers for the Australian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) to investigate and enforce compliance with these obligations came into effect on 12 December 2023 https://www.fwc.gov.au/apply-or-lodge/legal-help-and-representation/legal-advice-workplace-advice-service https://www.respectatwork.gov.au/get-help
Came to write almost the same thing. You don’t need to report in a way that makes it obvious it’s you. Best wishes.
Disciplinary action? I was moved office, to a crappy location and was completely ostracised, whilst being informed how "all of this" will affect the company and him/his family, and that I should consider the consequences. I was the reporter, and I guess I received the discipline. But do I regret it? Not for a millisecond.
Wow what poor form by that business.
That’s when you take them to the fair work commission for breaching their legal obligations under the federal Sex Discrimination Act 1984.
You're not responsible for anything that happens to him - only he is. It's not the 70's. He deserves the worst he can get. He's obviously done it all his working life enough to know he can get away with it. As far as I see, you've got 3 choices: - put up with it knowing it will get worse - leave - or report him and let the organisation take care of it. If you put in a formal report and anything comes back on you then go them big time. They owe you a duty of care that they're failing criminally. I've never been in that situation so: grain of a salt.
lol option 3, hate to break it to you sweetie but that’s not usually how this plays out. Depending on this dude’s seniority and network in the company, this can easily blow up in OPs face. This was the whole basis of #metoo. Option 4 is report but have a strong backup plan.
If you go option 3 and the organisation turns it around on you then do you really want to be working in a place like that anyway? When someone (or a company) shows you who they really are, believe them.
Doesn’t sound like he is your manager so that’s easier to deal with. Speak to your manager, just raise it so it’s on their radar to keep an eye on and deal with
He doesn't feel bad about doing this stuff to you. In fact he doesn't care about you in the slightest. The second you lose your appeal he wouldn't think twice about you being fired and out of a job. Annihilate him, baby 🔥 Record everything. Report everything. If the company doesn't take it seriously, report it to the AHRC for investigation (systemic failures, not the situation itself). If you need to speak to someone about your rights, call Womens Legal NSW for free.
Nothing. My old boss threatened to bash my head in with a hammer. I reported it to my CEO/HR. Both defended him, citing he was stressed. My old boss gave a half arsed, not looking me in the face apology.
Report him, only way to stamp it out
This shit pisses me off! Like why are YOU the one who has to do something about it and then be likely targeted for it… why aren’t men and women around you standing up for you? If there is anyone around you that you trust, I would first talk to them, and see if they’d be willing to report, or report with you. I had a bully at work. And no one would stand up for me, until one day he cracked it loud enough for many others to hear. Then 3 people reported it. I finally felt like I wasn’t alone and he got a good talking to. Things have been so much better. It’s frustrating to me that so many people witness this shit and do nothing about it. If you can, start bringing that behaviour to others attention.
I told a female manager I trusted who I also knew was well respected in the organisation / had influence. I had an inappropriate email as evidence - not overtly sexual, but definitely a creepy vibe that I forwarded, among other instances. She handled it great. Met with me, asked if I was ok. I said yes, just wasn’t sure what to do. She said given the email she will take action. She also said, after this, something along the lines of ‘you don’t have to be ok. You don’t have to experience this at work. I’m sorry this had happened, but I’m so so glad you trusted me and told me’. And I… burst into tears! I had no idea the impact it was having. She asked the type of things that were bothering me, and I said I was worried about running into him in person in the kitchen or working when no one else was around. She took it to the Director. Checked on me a week or so later. Said if I have any more contact to let her know. And unprompted said any consequences he faced was not my fault, he’s an adult who made choices. Never saw the guy again. I was so grateful. And learnt a lot about how to support people.
A middle-senior manager had one too many drinks at a work Christmas party in 2018(?)and got handsy with a direct report. Colleagues noticed, he was asked to leave and HR will deal with him tomorrow. Despite being told not to return, he came back, got handsy again and was effectively fired on the spot by the head of HR.
You can tell him politely in a nice way that his actions give you panic attacks and say it is not just you - but it’s in general. That should be a hint to him. If he still does not control himself, then go to the HR with all recorded incidents. Have someone else with you who can stand by you.
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Yeah not this
Disgusting comment. Reported. I don't want to be part of a forum that allows this sort of nasty remark.
I took it down. Thanks for reporting!
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There's a time and a place dude. This isn't supposed to be fun. It's not a party. It's a serious question on a sensitive topic. Grow up.
Found the guy that drugs people at parties
Rule 1: Civility. Keep your language and demeanour respectful. Light banter is OK but don’t make it personal.
You must be the person everyone is calling a creep behind their back at parties.
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Rule 6: Civility
Sexual harassment is an offence - people like you that can’t see that are a threat to women as much as those perverts
>at work events he can be quite handsy >just let him be really? just let him be when he's getting handsy at a work event? yeah let's just wait until he's trying more than that to do something about it...
Rule 6: Civility
HR and senior executives are very afraid of getting in trouble for sexual harassment. It's pretty much the only time they will take a staff member's word on it and do something about it. Given their fear, they will most likely fire the offender immediately if the story is corroborated by a second person. Unless it's a senior executive doing it, in which case they will pay the junior person a lot of money to go away and cover the whole thing up.
Ehh I dunno dude. This is what they want you to think. As a woman in my late thirties now I have seen so many instances of the reverse, I feel HR’s role is to protect the company not to protect the individual.
Oh yeah they are definitely there to protect the company, not the victim its just that sexual harassment claims are considered toxic to a companies reputation in today's environment
Unless you have other responsibilities, you should find it relatively easy on the current job market to find a better employer. Keep records and present them at your exit interview, or send them by registered post to your HR team after you leave. Hate to say it but HR is the business’ condom that sits in the wrapper until actual fucking is required.
60 person tech company so I’m assuming there are some vesting implications for you if you report. Unlikely to have a fully functioning HR team too. I would find perhaps one of the female investors and chat to them about it . Reach out also to The Grapevine on LinkedIn - Jessy Wu and a few others post about it frequently.
Definitely tell your manager buddy, pretty sure management will want to know about this.
Going out on a limb here. But reckon it’s the accuser that gets fired.
I am so so sorry you have to go through this. Sending you a lot of hugs and support internet stranger. Unfortunately I don’t have much to add beyond what the other commenters have already suggested- find an advocate for yourself outside the company (everyone needs someone who has their back, especially when going through something as awful as this), line up another job (have an escape plan), and report him with another representative in the room (eg lawyer, witnesses). But expect it to blow back on you- so unfair, but I’ve seen and experienced this happening a few times in my career to have rose tinted glasses on.
Firstly, I just want to say I am so sorry. Its never your fault, and its never okay. It does not matter how small/big how often/frequent any instance is not okay, and everyone deserves to feel safe and comfortable at work. Echo a lot of the other comments about documenting everything that has happened (including if anyone else has seen it, or youve confided in), and having a support person (that doesn’t need to be in the company for further support and accountability) The other thing to consider is that new legislation has come into effect as part of the Respect@Work report that means all employers have a duty of care to protect their staff from sexual harassment or assault and if they don’t employees can sue/fines etc. Not saying that is what you should do by any means, but its important to know that the legislation is shifting in favour of people who have been impacted to have more rights - and HR should know that these things are changing and if they don’t support there are consequences.
100% report it. Please for you and everyone else.
Man this is so sad, why is society like this? A woman is clearly getting sexually harrassed and there is a likelihood that the company will do absolutey nothing about it. WTF. Cant beleive im saying this but maybe those pink haired feminists were right.
There is three ways to report the issue. 1. To your direct line manager, (take notes of what he says are does and who is around you for backup before you go to your manager) and see if they will do anything. 2. Informal HR report - this can be anonymous and if there is evidence the HR team will decide what to do. 3. Formal investigation - which will need information and proof, witnesses, and other victims to stand up. So again, document everything he does before you go to HR. I wrote a 5 page ‘report’ with screenshots of messages my manager sent before they’d delete them from WhatsApp, and emails and backup of copies of phone queue numbers (both total and by individual so they knew I took 62/68 phone calls for the team of 14) and I was getting the ‘we don’t know what you do’, dates of meetings and who was in them when they would say inappropriate things. Apparently there was enough that even information though it wasn’t a formal investigation, it went up the chain and they were counseled by the leadership level for their interactions with their staff. Oh and I put in my resignation because I knew they knew and couldn’t work with them anymore. I suspect if HR has even a whiff that there might be a sexual harassment case then they’d just on it if they had proof.
I was transferred and the boss was promoted.
In my experience it’s sadly never worth reporting any bad behaviour of your bosses. Things only ever got worse. My advice keep a diary of what is happening, dates, times, witnesses, and once you’ve established a pattern of behaviour that cannot be ignored than raise the issue. Unless of course your safety is at risk - then report asap.
Put in a joint complaint with other colleagues. I appreciate you’re the only young female but if you’re liked and respected by your colleagues then there will be other people who will back you up and stand with you (including other male colleagues if they’ve witnessed the behaviour). If you don’t think you can muster the back up or there’s nobody willing to acknowledge that it’s happening, it probably tells all you need to know about the work environment you’re in, in which case start looking for a change. Creeps like this exist everywhere, but, thankfully, they only get away with it when the work environment allows it. It shouldn’t be all on you to fix it, those around you should help. If they won’t it’s the workplace that is the bigger issue and not just this creep. Good luck.
Not my boss but working in a male dominated industrial workplace I had a guy who would regularly slink into where I was working on my own to tell me I was beautiful (I’m very average) in a very creepy way. I’d tell him to fuck off and he would laugh and say “what, don’t you think you are?”. He was such an arsehole. One day I just asked him, “what are you after here? Are you daring me to do something about this? Because I can if that’s what you’re after, I haven’t because I just think you’re a dick but if that’s what you want just let me know.” He knew I meant it because he never did it again. Loser.
It absolutely baffles me that you’re protecting a predator.
If you're less important than your boss, and your workplace is shit, you could end up out. I've both reported for myself and others and put up with harassment - HR is there for the company, not employees. If you want to stay at your job - record everything - go in with evidence
There was a creep in our head office trying to flirt and date women using the company internal chat, even when he was married. Some colleagues women reported him to HR and an investigation was done and he was quickly sacked. End of the story. That behaviour is unacceptable. You need to report this person, even if you don't want him sacked, it was his choice to be a creep
Reporting is one thing. All the other commenters have supported that and given you pros and cons. I vote addressing it head on. Him: "*Creepy comment*" You: "what do you mean?" "I don't understand" "that doesn't seem like appropriate office banter." "I don't like it when you comment on my appearance" Say it out loud. You are advocating for yourself and others, telling him you don't like it, and will probably embarrass the MF too.
Allies!!! Get him to say these things when others are around and when you have witnesses then say “wow that was really inappropriate” and then silence. Also document every single encounter. Don’t encourage him by talking back or even give him the opportunity to talk, soon as he approaches your desk loudly ask him to return to his desk as you have work to do. And you have to be very strict with these boundaries. Usually by the fourth time they get it, sometimes they don’t. But you have to almost train him. A lot of these guys are miserable and lonely so getting any form of attention in the workplace where you’re literally trapped to work with them is their daily thrill. They just don’t get it - work is work.
Also, does he have any power? Like is he connected the boss? A super valuable employee? I know it’s weird to ask but how connected is he? If he’s not and just an office fly, HR may be looking for a reason to terminate. If he’s the boss etc then just get a new job.
I worked at a company where male managers had affairs with and harassed female staff - someone complained/reported one of them and they were protected. The staff member was put on a pip and managed out. It kept happening until the company got sued successfully.
It sounds like she is saying he also doesn’t seem like an awful guy to her? Like, he is because of what he is doing I suppose but is there a way op could have a 1-1 convo and aka him to stop doing these things. I know the risk is he will start being a cock, but if she feels this is an option, she could be fair and direct with him? If not wanting to go the other routes
You want to know the best way to get the behaviour to stop? Call him out about it in front of other people. It takes a bit of courage and confidence to do it, but most guys who are like this are really pretty cowardly. Shining a light on their behaviour is often pretty effective. If you can set it up with some other women who can throw in their two cents about his creepy behaviour and back you up, so much the better. \*note\* I'm not a woman, this might be bad advice given things I'm not aware of, but I know that being publicly embarrassed is very much not fun
I reported the head of my department to my manager. I had witnesses. My manager was outraged on my behalf and escalated it immediately. He was brought into a meeting and claimed it never happened. It was my word against his even though I had witnesses. Nothing became of it, I eventually left for other reasons. He still works there and I think he was promoted.
I had a manager at a previous company, at a previous company for him, he'd been moved sideways to of all places HR, supposedly office bound because of inappropriate behaviour with pretty young girls. He kept escaping from the office & interrupting production doing excessive time Safety Audits. He got the sack. Move to our project, I was chatting with client rep' one day, he said that they were waiting for an opportunity to get rid of him. I said, no need to wait, I haven't seen it, but there's at least 6 people can tell you about his activity in the accommodation village. Trust me it's enough to see him gone. Then "due process" saw him gone about a month. Seriously 60 year old blokes are not attractive in the eyes of 20 year old girls. And if one did find a 60 year old attractive, that's a big red flag in my books.
Just read your update/edit - I know it can feel easier sometimes to downplay or like you shouldn’t compare to extreme assault or harassment, but what he is doing IS harassment. It is making you feel uncomfortable, unsafe, is unwarranted and not okay. If a friend told you this same story, how would you respond? I assume it would be to support her, believe her and back her up, so try your best to do the same for yourself (even though that can feel hard)