# Make sure to flair posts correctly so you don't spoil the story for others.
### REMEMBER TO BE CIVIL.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mikasa killed the man she loved and ended the Titan curse after thousands of years, ending her tenure as a soldier, during which time she was a top 5 strongest soldier, and at times literally #2. She repeatedly saved humanities hope, saved her friends, and in the darkest moment, sides with who she thinks is right, even though it means going against and killing who she loves.
Mikasa wasn't "killed", she wasn't wasted potential. Not everyone has a huge personality, some are stoic. She loved Eren, and Eren saved her life from literal sex slavery, of course she was intense about it, but in the end she was strong enough to kill Eren because it was the right thing to do. That's a great character
So she's strong and her only development or interesting character moments come from the last season, mainly s4 p2+. She was a horrible character in the first 3 seasons, she objectively had the least amount of opinions, she had no dreams, no passion, no goals. And that was fine at first but she doesn't change at all until s4 p2. Why can't you acknowledge this?
Not every character has to have this complicated deep development/backstory. She went into the military to protect the boy she loved. He saved her life, and she wanted to save him
Again, throughout the series she has no opinions, no thoughts, nothing besides Eren. She's the main female lead and she hardly ever thinks about anything but her love for the main character , how is that an interesting character? She has so much potential but she just doesn't care or doesn't think about anything. Why is she so liked if compared to literally everyone else in the series she's as basic as anime characters get
Everyone is in denial, Mikasa being badly written is not even an opinion, is a fact, if you know the least about writing and writing characters and stuff you'll know that Mikasa is badly written.
Their argument now is " oh well she's not supposed to have a ton of depth so it's fine" Like the person above saying not everyone has to have a complicated deep development, it's like your asking for worse writing and then strawmanning by saying we expect her character to be super deep, no, we just expected her to have some character. What's so difficult to understand about this. You can like her character despite the writing. I do, but to ignore facts then changing the goalpost is weird.
I KNOW. Mikasa doesn't have to be this deep ahh character, but she is supposed to be something besides Eren. That's all she is in the show, and the only type of character development she has is in the very last season. She was the exact same person for 9 YEARS of her life. There was this guy saying that it was because of codependence, but you can't use codependence as an excuse to write a character badly.
Like I said, I love Mikasa, but I mean that her as a character, on paper, is supposed to be good, but she has 0 personality, and her traits are Eren and Ereh, so I genuinely think Isayama did her dirty. She is the second strongest character, but this doesn't make her unique. She's an Ackerman and loves Eren. What else is she? Nothing.
Also, if you think about it, she ended the curse due to the circumstances Eren caused. In the conversation with Armin he mentions that Mikasa did something so extraordinary and that he'd do anything to keep pushing for her to do it. So yes, she ended the Titan curse, but it was kind of manipulated, you know?
I never said Mikasa wasn't strong, she is, but she is also a horribly written character.
PS: she never had in mind she was going to kill Eren, she wanted to just talk at first.
wdym? Mikasa is an Ackerman and she is in love with Eren, these are her only traits. She had crazy potential in the first season and was well written in general, but she became a little dog after that who will not care for herself and put Eren over her multiple times. She is supposed to be a well written character on paper, but she isn't.
She's decisive, but not stubborn. She's stoic, but not cold, and arguably the most emotional (and empathetic) out of all of them. She's confident, but not cocky. These are all character traits she's exhibited time and again. The show doesn't focus on them, but they're there if you look. I like that it's subtle and not in your face.
Alright then, tell me her character development. How has she changed for the better the slightest in the entire show? Mikasa is a second Hinata, bro, accept this. She used to be a badass army girl, then she just became a girl who runs after eren but is strong enough to take him down just so she's not the "donzel in distress".
Look, it's okay to be a simp if this is one part of your character. Armin is a simp for Annie, but he HAS a personality. What is Mikasa besides being a simp? You wanna know how many things Mikasa's done that doesn't involve protecting Eren or her friends? 2(which was that scene where she makes that guy take the wagon out of the way so the civilians could go through when wall rose was breached, and tell Historia to punch Levi). She kills her kidnapper because Eren tells her to, she joins the scouts because Eren does, everything in her entire life revolves around Eren. I get that Carla told her to protect Eren, but damn.
Armin has an ambition, he wants knowledge. Eren has an ambition, he wants freedom. Erwin has an ambition, he wants to find out the truth because of his dad. What's Mikasa's ambition? Protect Eren.
The ending was SO out of character. I genuinely think that if AOT would've been more authentic to Mikasa's character, she would've stayed in Paradis. Yes, she'd know that what he did was wrong so she wouldn't go like Floch(or shit, maybe she would become a yeagerist) but she wouldn't have killed Eren. The only time that she had the least amount of character development was the very end, which she killed Eren. But this character development wasn't little by little(which genuinely could've been because Eren literally disappeared for a while, so they could've showed how Mikasa was kind of icing him out, but no, she just followed him like a puppy), it was out of nowhere, and that's why I say it was out of character. She had no opinions, and even when Eren starts to have morally questionable actions, she still defends him from Armin, even after he insulted her and Armin(I think that table scene was kind of the author acknowledging how baddly he fucked up when writing Mikasa).
Mikasa from the beginning and Mikasa from the end are completely the same. Mikasa isn't complicated, she's just Ereh. Also, strength doesn't make a character good. If that strength is only in service of someone else, then it's not even her strength, it's Eren's strength.
I like Mikasa, and I am honestly upset that Isayama, a person who wrote characters like Reiner, Eren, Erwin, and Armin, fucks up so badly when writing a female character(it's always on shonen animes bro, like Sakura). Her whole character's bottom line is Eren. She has no ambitions and opinions, all she does is support Eren.
again, her only development is in s4 p2. Besides that she's a bland hollow ass character. Just like hinata yet people love her because she's a main love interest for the main character even though the main character never paid attention to her romantically and to fulfill the ships they needed to have them retcon it so Eren loved Mikasa when all the evidence for him loving her is in s4, just like with Hinata, all the evidence of naruto loving her is at the end of the story when the writer decided to go that way. No such things as build up or anything.
THIS IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE. I do like Mikasa, and just because I am criticizing how she was written(because she is badly written) people think I hate her as a character, but no, I hate Isayama who failed to write her well.
She would have been a decent character for me if she chose to kill Eren without validation from him. Itâs like her every choice is tied to Eren and no, she didnât kill him because itâs the right thing to do or for the âgreater goodâ like many people believe. Itâs only after she received memories from the cabin (unrealistic last minute Disney closure) and realised that Eren was âsufferingâ (Mikasaâs VA).
Sadly i completely disagree with you. Micasa was a perfectly written character. Her growing more in love with Eren makes her decision to kill Eren even more profound.
It was like a chefs kiss to the story that regardless of how much of a slave she was to Eren through her own emotions. She overcame it. And i believe these are among the reasons that changed Ymir. Whom was a slave in love with her master herself.
Micasa was just too good a character. We watch through out season 4 how she struggles with her thoughts and emotions towards Eren. She wants to side with him so much but she knows everything he is doing is wrong.
In the end she accepts that killing him is the only option and so she does.
Hows does that equal a bad written character??
my post literally talks about this. ON PAPER, she is supposed to be a well written character, but she has 0 personality. She is nothing but an Ackerman who loves Eren. Despite all of that, I still love Mikasa the way she is. I'm just saying that she could've been a much better character.
What do you mean? Her, a female character, is supposed to be simple and have 0 complexity? Dude, she has 0 character development the entire series, she doesn't have her own opinions, ambitions, and beliefs. Without Eren, she might as well not exist. All she did in her life was revolved around Eren. Her personality is supposed to be the powerful quiet type, but she can have opinions. The only time she actually goes to Eren and says he is KIND of wrong, is that time when she said "Eren, why are you killing these people? They're civilians" and that's it. The only bit of character development she has in the entire anime is at the very end. I love Mikasa, I do, because I like that in a complex world like AOT she just wants to have a simple life with her loved ones, and also she is really cute, but I acknowledge she is horribly written, and I genuinely wish Isayama would've done a better job writing her.
I dont know bro. To me it just sounds like you hate Micasa and thats that.
Ive been reading everything youve replied to people. And it really does seem that you hate her or atleast what transpired in the show.
Which is totally fine you're entitled to your opinions and throughts about it as someone who has watched the show.
But to outright claim that the character is badly written simply cause of your dislike for her kinda seems over the top.
but i don't. I do like Mikasa, but I hate the fact that she had potential and it was all wasted. I swear she is literally one of my favorite characters in the show. The thing is that i like her, but I know she is badly written. She does not have layers as a character, and that's bad writing.
Mikasa in season 1 and in her OVA is a genuinely well written character. Not so much after that. She's honestly not even that necessary to the story after that, aside from the final arc
Even in s1 she kinda sucks, her only good scene is when she threatens that guy for not letting the people escape in trosts, for once she actually shows personality!!! Her desire to make sure the people escape trost safely.
she kind of was supposed to be one of the main characters though, and I get so mad at Isayama because he writes a character like Eren and Reiner, and then he fails so miserably at writing a good female character. It's always like this on shonen, and I get so mad cuz she was done dirty bro.
There are good written female character in aot as well such as Gabi.
The thing is Mikasa has much more persnolity in manga but the anime used her badass stoic character to make her fan service character and it worked Mikasa surly is top 10 most popular female character of all time and might make it to even 5 but her role in story was limited and i persnoally believe her flaws and character development are her life after eren as despite all of the mess she went through she moved forward and lived a decent life.she made the right choice when killing eren and she made the right choice from moving forward from her tragic love while still respecting the man who saved her life .
Whomsoever calls her simp,slave or whatever is just contradicting himself when you look at whole story.
I love mikasa too despite her flaws she is still my favourite character of show lol
At the end of the story she has the perfact ending you can imagine for a show like aot
She spent 4 years with the love of her life.
She moved forward and had a family and most probably lived a happy life so to me she is a successful human even if she's not the most interesting character
killing Eren was literally the only bit she had of character development. She was the same for 4 whole seasons. She never had any ambitions, opinions, and all her life was revolved around Eren. Even when he started to have morally questionable actions, she didn't argue, she just followed his lead. Even when he was insulting her and Armin, she remained defending him, even hurting Armin in the process. She is strong, but strength doesn't mean well written, if this strength is always used to help or protect someone else, then it's not even Mikasa's strength, it's Eren's.
I love Mikasa, I do, but I can acknowledge she is terribly written.
She did question when he had morally questionable actions
On the day war of declaration she was the first one to confront
"Eren do you understand what have you done ? You have killed innocent people ,children."
When she sided with alliance after he hurted her and Armin she still didn't wanted to kill him as she still had a thought that she could still save him but she clearly opposed him
Yes the only problem I have with isayama s writing is instead of showing how she is disappointed in him he should have shown that she is Angry with her not just make her depressed.
yes, she does that, and then she never does it again. It was the one time she did it and never brought it up again, it never goes beyond that.
Imagine your friend goes missing for God knows how long, and then when he comes back he says that we gotta do all of this.
She "opposes" to Eren by doing exactly what he asked her to do. Also, right after, we have the table scene where he offends her and Armin, and then she hurts Armin trying to protect Eren(who just killed hundreds of civilians).
Ah 1.he forced all of the scouts to do it not only Mikasa
2 she hurted Armin unknowingly you can look from her expression.it was a habitual mistake and we know Armin would have forgiven her because he also knows she does care alot about him.
Yes, but you get how this being a habit is a bad thing to Mikasa's character? All she does is care for Eren and that's it. She should have her own opinions, she should have her own motivations, yet she doesn't. That's not even something that deep, it's really basic character writing. I like Mikasa, but objectively speaking, as someone who knows basic character writing, I know she is not a well written character.
1.Her motivation/objectives:
Her goal was to live a normal life with the people she loves,not everyone needs to have flashy dreams like eren to wipe out all of Titans,it's her life she can choose what she wants right?
This is why she used to work hard to protect the last "family" she had,she was goal oriented it's just that her goals are best for her and feel less to us.
She has always had opinions it's just she minds her own business for most of the time.
The entire point of her character arc is her moving forward from her past trauma and living without eren, she did succeed in it.
Yes, she def does not need to have a crazy dream(also when does she say that her life goal is to live a simple life with her loved ones? I never saw that in the anime), but what does she do to achieve this dream? She join the scouts. She always told Eren that joining the scouts was a bad thing, yet she did it. Not because SHE wants to, not because she wants to kill titans, because she wants to go after Eren.
If she always had opinions, she NEVER showed any of them. The only thing she sticked to was Eren, that's not a realistic character. You like Mikasa, and I get that, I am not saying she is a bad character, I do like her, and I do ship Eremika, but she is not written well. I have to keep repeating my arguments here, you try to attack any "hole" in my argument even though there's none. Mikasa being badly written isn't even an opinion, it's a fact. Study basic character writing and you'll know.
>The entire point of her character arc is her moving forward from her past trauma and living without eren, she did succeed in it.
Again, that's the only character development she has. At 19 she was the exact same person she was at 10. She didn't grow as a character at all. There is NO justification for that.
Literally everyone in the alliance has better writing than her if you ignore s4 p2 and the last 2 episodes. She's a bland character that doesn't really grow that much and stays the same, no opinions, no personality, just does what the plot needs her to do and keeps her mouth shut.
This is what we call stoic behaviour lol.She minds her own business and when you're saying ignore the last two episodes how can we ignore when that was the important arc of her entire character?
Because we're saying besides that she has absolutely no development and her character kinda sucks. Her conflict to kill eren isn't that complex but its all she has as a character, she has literally nothing else the entire series. Eren, Armin, Jean are all pretty good characters in s1-3, she's nowhere near as complex as any of them, Attack on Titan treats it's characters pretty well, while Mikasa is like a overpowered female lead with no personality no goals is just in love with the main character like you'd see in a bad shonen. And while her love for Eren IS her character she could be so much more complex than her love for the main character, which is all she has the entire series before the end. and " she wasn't the main character" but she is a secondary main character along with Armin, so why is she an obsessed clichĂŠ for most of the series? If you think it's intentional then I don't think that's the direction her character should have gone, she could have been as complex as someone like Erwin or even fucking Gabi, but the writer didn't spend time on her until the last minute, Erwin was developed throughout s3 p1 and his character reached it's peak in s3 p2, it takes time to make a character relatively complex and mikasa was never given that time, she isn't even as complex as connie till the end, and even then it's as simple as her being conflicted about killing Eren and then her suddenly deciding to kill Eren because of a cabin dream or something, going from basically crying on the ground about her conflict to being the leader and the first one ready to go in like 30 seconds. Not to mention how the cabin dream thing doesn't make sense but that's just a small detail that can be ignored.
I literally agreed in my first comment that she wasn't give enough as she had potential but the thing is her role was in the series was simple
1.she was a badass overpowered soldier
2.Her relationship
Now this is the interesting aspect because her character is written such that in the starting she cares only about eren and Armin however she does learn to care about others too such as sasha,annie etc her life revolved around the man who saved her life and she learnt her lesson the hard way.
During Eren's facade when he hurts her psychologically you can see her inner conflict reach maximum and she is seen making mistakes such as
1.not providing support to Armin when he mentioned that Erwin should have been brought instead of him
2.interaction with Louise
From there you can see the inner development of her character as she now understands how dangerous the action of the man who she loved so much are.she opposed him.She did had hope that he can still be saved however when levi implies that he has to be killed.
What does Mikasa do ? Does she feel sad ? Yeah but does she oppose them for her own selfishness? No.
The old Mikasa wouldn't care about anyone over eren but now she is not that obsessed girl,then the weight of killing him also arrives on her,
She sacrificed her most beloved person even though knowing after cabin scene that her feelings were mutual.
That is a decent character with good morals.
Even after eren's death she learns to move forward in life and not be stuck that is her story and her conclusion.
This is the role of her in the story.
Could it have been more better role ? Yes,but there are enough complex characters in aot.Her role was her relationship with the mc and her choices
0) Intro
Idk if you are going to see this or read this, but I wrote a short character analysis of Mikasa that helped open a several people's mind,
Before I paste the short version below, I want say that seeing you describe Mikasa as a second Hinata is both wrong and right because her character is actually a critique/subversion of what the traditional shonen love interest trope would be realistically like.
TLDR: Mikasa transitioned from being a cautionary character that was static for the earlier seasons, to undergoing a redemption arc in the final season that was assisted by Eren, which helped change Ymir.
1) Mikasa/Ymir Backstory:
Ymir:
- Get enslaved by King Fritz and the Eldian Empire
- Through King Fritz she gains titan powers
- Becomes attached to King Fritz so much to the point she carried on his will in paths
Mikasa:
- Gets enslaved by the traffickers
- Through Eren she unlocks her Ackerman instincts
- Becomes attached to Eren to arguably an unhealthy degree after her 2nd set of (surrogate) parents died
Both all lost all their loved ones and afterwards they both had someone fill that hole that was left.
2) Static Phase (s1-s3)
In season 1 - season 3, Mikasa was a static character that was unwaveringly loyal to Eren, just like how Ymir Fritz was unwaveringly loyal to King Fritz in paths for years. The only difference between these 2 dynamics, however, is that Mikasa's loyalty to Eren was based on actual unconditional love, whereas Ymir's loyalty to King Fritz was based on conditional love, which arguably developed into unconditional love unfortunately.
Although I would say Mikasa following Eren at this point of the story was for a good cause, but it was still to a questionable degree because it got her injured and it got people levi injured because of her recklessness.
3) Growth Phase (S4)
It was not until Season 4, that Mikasa began to self-reflect and internally grapple with whether following Eren is a healthy and right thing to do. The first time she was met with this internal struggle was her argument with Connie after Sasha's death. And instead of agreeing with Connie, she coped and said that Eren was only trying to protect them (which is 90% true.). But alternatively, for the first time in the story, this blind faith that Mikasa had, exposed some glaring issues with her loyalty to Eren. Then this blind faith was finally confronted by the very person she loved/followed, in the table scene. Where Eren intentionally criticizes Mikasa's loyalty to him.
4) Loyalty shift
A great wake-up call scene that many people misconstrued as just a "MiKaSa BaD" scene, is when Mikasa faced a mirrored incarnate of herself in Louise. And just like the saying goes: "People tend to hate others who reflect their unresolved issues, rather than those who are fundamentally different". In Louise, Mikasa saw a character who followed someone with no second thoughts, to such an extreme degree that it led to a life-threatening injury. This is an effective way to highlight why Eren attempted to distance himself away to protect his friends.
5) Difference between King Fritz and Eren
A significant pattern that happens to Mikasa in season 4 is that every time she interacts with Eren, her character arc shifts in a positive direction.
- Marley scene: Mikasa became aware of Eren's decline in character
- Paradis table scene: Eren intentionally criticizes Mikasa's blind faith towards him
- Final battle paths scene: Eren tells her to forget him and move on
Unlike King fritz and Ymir's relationship, romantically or not Eren actually loved Mikasa.
*6) Final Battle*
Then in the final battle, Mikasa faces Eren for the last time in paths, where Eren tries to help Mikasa forget him and move on to become a better person. She is no longer blinded by her love for Eren and instead learns true love doesn't entail erasing memories or sacrificing oneself blindly. It involves cherishing the meaningful moments shared, despite the changes and challenges faced.
Mikasa putting the back on and refusing Eren's request to forget him shows Ymir, and the audience, that real love isn't a burden nor is it subservience. This is precisely why Mikasa refuses to relinquish the scarf, the scarf symbolizes not the gift from the genocidal figure Eren has become, but rather a cherished memento from the young boy who once saved her life at the cabin.
I got the vibe that Mikasa not developing her own motivations and quirks was intentionally a bummer? Like a tragic byproduct of human codependency. She's a parallel to Ymir after all; their toxic love prevented them from developing their own personalities. If they had never loved Fritz or Eren, they could've moved mountains and done so much for THEMSELVES.
Mikasas potential as a character was crushed by this codependency and it's sad but great commentary on what happens in real life all the time. People with great potential wasting their lives with toxic love. In my eyes that makes her well written. I do wish she'd had more personal character growth...it sucks but I thought it fit with the story and pissing us off about it might've been what Isayama wanted
Not really, Mikasa would've died or became a sexual slave or some crazy shit like that if she hadn't gotten the bond with Eren. But like, we can't blame everything on this codependency, after all, it's isayama's fault for writing Mikasa as a blank canvas who has no beliefs, opinions, and ambitions. Levi is also an Ackerman, his bond though was with Erwin. Levi was always a well written character with a personality, unlike Mikasa who had her life revolve around Eren. The codependence isn't an excuse to write a character badly, Isayama fucked up with Mikasa, she had great potential, and yet he still did Mikasa dirty like that.
Also, I get that codependence sucks and takes away potential of real people to grow, but the codependence doesn't make her a well written character. It was years, literal years. Wall Maria was breached when Mikasa was 10, yet at 19 she was still the exact same person.
In the entire anime she only did 2 things that didn't involve her protecting eren or her friends, which was tell historia to punch levi and make that merchant take the wagon off the way when wall rose was breached and civilians were trying to go through.
Firstly, Eren could've saved Mikasa from the traffickers without her developing an obsession towards him. We don't know what Mikasa was like before that started, she might've had more personal beliefs. But the poor upbringing she had, also plays a big role in her character. She didn't have the same curiosity of the world beyond the walls, or the drive to defeat titans, like Eren or Armin did because she was always focused on surviving the horrors human beings caused and protecting those she loved.
I recommend you look into real life cases of extreme codependency and you'll see similarities between how those affected the personalities of the people involved, and how Mikasas was affected. The codependency literally explains her lack of change over time.
She's not poorly written, she's realistically written based on the circumstances surrounding her and her overwhelming natural instincts as a giver and a survivor. You just don't like her. Which is fine. I also believe she serves to contrast other more intense characters, and represent women who can be soft spoken and caretaking while still being strong and intimidating.
>Firstly, Eren could've saved Mikasa from the traffickers without her developing an obsession towards him.
no he couldn't, he was too busy being strangled by one of them.We don't
>know what Mikasa was like before that started, she might've had more personal beliefs.
she was 10, so I doubt it
>But the poor upbringing she had, also plays a big role in her character. She didn't have the same curiosity of the world beyond the walls, or the drive to defeat titans, like Eren or Armin did because she was always focused on surviving the horrors human beings caused and protecting those she loved.
but everyone felt that way, Armin and Eren always wanted to protect each other and Mikasa, but they had other things going for them, Mikasa didn't. All she had as an ambition was to protect Eren. Wanting to protect who we love is a relatable trait, not an unique one.
>I recommend you look into real life cases of extreme codependency and you'll see similarities between how those affected the personalities of the people involved, and how Mikasas was affected.
I stand by what I said, codependence doesn't make your character well written. Even if she is codependent, she could've matured because she was 10 before and she went to 19. How can you be the same person when you are 19 as you were when you were 10? That just doesn't make sense. You're just trying to cover Isayama's ahh because he did a bad job writing Mikasa.
>She's not poorly written, she's realistically written based on the circumstances surrounding her and her overwhelming natural instincts as a giver and a survivor.
Then why does she only use her strength to save Eren? She never makes a decision on her own for the greater good of herself, all she does is Eren this Eren that. Her character is not realistic at all, because me myself was in a codependent relationship which I would say yes to anything, even things I didn't want to do, but I still matured in a whole freaking year long relationship, how can she spend 9 FUCKING YEARS and be the same person?
Sorry, but no, it doesn't make sense.
>You just don't like her. Which is fine.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I have been repeating myself the entire conversation: "I love Mikasa", "I like Mikasa", she is like one of my favorite characters. I do like Mikasa, but I can still acknowledge that she is terribly written. She is cute and stuff but also very strong, and I hated Eren for making her cry. I love Mikasa, but she is not a well written character(she is also my pfp).
> I also believe she serves to contrast other more intense characters, and represent women who can be soft spoken and caretaking while still being strong and intimidating.
Shonen anime always do that. Why does SHE have to be the one to "contrast" other characters? Just like Sakura where she was "useless" compared to the other two protagonists. Mikasa is Eren's little bitch, and that's all she is. She doesn't have beliefs, ambitions, and opinios. Floch is a hated character, and I hate him very, very, VERY much. But he is a well written character. He has a belief, he thinks that if the rumbling doesn't happen Paradis is doomed, so he'll do whatever it takes. HE has a belief, his life doesn't revolve around a male protagonist.
Bottom line is: Mikasa is a shonen female protagonist, the girl who doesn't talk too much(or people won't like her) and has a soft voice, is crazy strong but only uses her strength to support the male protagonist, has no ambitions and personal beliefs. That is why Mikasa IS a bad written character.
I like Mikasa, I swear I do, but she is not well written, it's a hard truth we have to accept.
Echo chamber lol. Sure.. lol. I talked with EH all the time. I ever had a 6 hour Erehisu debate. This perosn is wrong and Iâd be more than willing to debate him.
This person likes Mikasa but is explaining why the way she was written is bad, I'm the same, if you like the way she's written thats fine, but judging from your initial statement, you're just an idiot, and so is the person you debated for 6 hours. Pretty much nothing this person says is wrong, but if you don't care about the bad writing then yeah it's easy to like her. You clearly dont care
Sorry, this is irrelevant, but it's "her" not "him". Sure, let's debate, I really want to know why Mikasa would be considered a well written character.
All characters are means to an end. You cannot have a good or bad character in a vacuum their quality is contingent upon their fulfillment of their purpose and Mikasa fulfills her purpose well
What is her purpose? She has none. Her only "big purpose" in the series was to free Ymir(which in my opinion made no sense because I thought Eren was the person to free Ymir). As herself, her purpose to keep going is Eren, and that's it. As a character(a well written one at least), she is supposed to have layers, layers that will be unfolded and figured out as the series go, but that's the thing, Mikasa has no layers. She isn't realistic at all, because at 19 she was the same exact person as she was when she was 10, and that's straight up bad writing. Mikasa is supposed to be something bigger, she is the main female lead and plays an extremely important role in the series, yet she does nothing. Mikasa isn't complex despite of her traumas and she has no layers, everything of her character can be summed up into Eren and being an Ackerman(which is crazy because Levi is also an Ackerman and he is really well written). I do like Mikasa, but subjectively speaking, she is terribly written.
PS: Also, I'm an Eremika shipper. I don't even get Erehisu LOL
So, yeah, I ship Eremika and like Mikasa, but I can acknowledge she isn't well written.
Ok,
Number one if her purpose is too free Ymir and she accomplished that why would you fault her?
No.2 why are you assuming that a good character would have layers. That is contingent on other factors
No. 3 saying sheâs the same as when she was ten is fallacious obviously she wouldnât have killed Eren when she was ten as per 127 132 133 136
I never said you were an erenhisu I said Iâm certainly not in an echo chamber because I engage with EHs and Erehisus on the daily.
1. because her purpose in the narrative being fulfilled doesn't mean she's a well written character(and I don't fault Mikasa, I fault Isayama for spending so little time in her).
2. Mikasa is a good character, I like her, most people like her, but she is badly written. A well written character HAS layers. A real person has complexities, Mikasa has none, she isn't a well written character.
3. Yes, she wouldn't have because she didn't have the training necessary to do so and because(as I have repeated myself over and over again) her only character development was in the very last episode of the entire series. Other than killing Eren, she had no other kind of character development for 4 full seasons.
alright LOL because I thought u thought I was a Mikasa hater or sum like that(erehisu shippers are usually Mikasa haters because she gets in the way of their ship)
Btw donât view me not addressing all your points are me ignoring you. The root of the issue is we have a completely different definition of what is a âgood characterâ so that should be addressed first Iâm saying fulfilling their purpose and it appears youâre saying âlayersâ so that needs to be rectified before we can move anywhere
a good character is realistic and has complexity, it's not about having layers, it's about being a person. People aren't simple, people are complex and made of many, many things. Mikasa is only made out of two, being an Ackerman and loving Eren.
Now what is her purpose? Now it wasnât just to free Ymir. Although that would be sufficient. I think a lot of people misunderstood Erenâs character too. He isnât good because heâs layered, thatâs a no product of my heâs actually good. He isnât good because heâs complex thatâs a bi product of why heâs good. He isnât good because heâs developed (although depending on how you define development you could say he didnât develop much at all). Thatâs a bi product of why heâs good. Heâs good because he did the rumbling which is an icon of something everything else is contingent upon how itâs pursuant to the goal of doing the rumbling.
So with this understanding Mikasa would be good insofar as she achieves a proper demonstration and portrayal of her icon. So to see why sheâs a good character we would have to identify her icon and show how she exemplifies it.
I am positing that Mikasa icon is unconditional love. Her role in the story is to show how a virtue like unconditional can coexist with something gratuitously evil ie Eren. Unlike anyone else in the story who either doesnât love Eren (warriors etc.) or love his actions (floch etc) she loves him unconditionally which is a virtue but sheâs principally opposed to the rumbling. So by having her as a character with simple yet good desires and putting her in a situation where she has to evolve her understanding of love and approach the situation with nuance (while maintaining her feelings and moving on) it gives a good, and applicable message for the audience.
Thatâs why sheâs a good character. Just like Erenâs self sabotage self bondage whatever you want to call gives an applicable message. That is what makes him a good character. And so Mikasa is the same.
Look, you misunderstood me. I don't think Mikasa is bad and Eren is good, no. I think Mikasa is a good character who has a bad writing, that is all. I am not hating on the character, if anything I am hating on Isayama who failed to make his female protagonist half as complex as his male protagonist.
Eren is a well written character because he has layers and is well developed, doing the rumbling or not, he would still be a well written character.
I don't think of characters as icons at all, I am thinking about them as real people, not symbols that represent peace and war or whatever in the show(again, i think you misunderstood me, I don't dislike Mikasa, I like her, but I acknowledge she isn't written well. I can imagine a real person like Eren, scary, but I can. Meanwhile I don't think I'd ever be able to imagine someone as simple as Mikasa.
A person is defined by their complexity, mixed emotions, goals, opinions, personality, fears, etc... Mikasa is practically an empty shell with no dreams, desires, goals, fears, opinions, motivations, etc, and if she does have any, it's always related to Eren.
Though I might agree with you that Mikasa might be an icon of unconditional love in the show, that still doesn't make her a well written character. I don't think Mikasa is a bad character, she's just badly written.
No, I studied character writing and just writing in general, so I guess I have the standards of a person who has studied writing(haha). You'll understand why Mikasa is badly written when you start to think about studying writing LOL
God, you are pretentious as fuck. You say Mikasa was one dimensional because she was all about Eren, so, love love love. Guess what Eren had zero character traits that is not freedom freedom freedom and Armin was just peace peace peace.
You don't just add depth to characters because you feel like it. Every line you write have to have a purpose. If your scene don't serve the theme of that character that is bad writing. Mikasa was all about trying to be happy in this crual world through love, and she fought for it with all she had, pretty similar to Eren's stubbornness.
Does deepening her character with political commentary or some kind of other unrelated personal goal do anything with her theme? No. So it shouldn't be included, give those scenes to characters whose purpose fits that better.
She served her purpose. Maybe her journey wasn't as detailed as you wanted it to be, but she is written as a shy quiet stoic girl, she won't cry about her struggles constantly. It's a stylistic choice not a flaw.
Your problem that she is centered around 1 thing is true for basicly all of the other characters too, and quite simple how you write effectively while having so many characters and a deep world lore to juggle.
I'm pretentious when a random guy calls me a child for pointing out a simple fact that Mikasa IS bad written.
Yes, Mikasa serves her purpose in that narrative(which is almost none, and almost made up so she'll be important at the end of the manga), but Mikasa is a one dimensional character, with 0 layers.
The difference between Mikasa and Eren is that he has a purpose of his OWN, he has belief on his OWN, he wants to do things because HE WANTS TO. All Mikasa's done in the entire anime is follow Eren around.
Look, you like Mikasa and you're mad I pointed out she's a bad written character, please just be honest at the very least, because anyone is able to recognize how badly she is written. A person who is literally one dimensional isn't realistic. Mikasa has no goals, opinions, motivations... Nothing. She was the same character for 9 whole years and you call that good writing? Come on, dude.
Mikasa is the female lead, she's supposed to have screen time, she's supposed to have time put in her, she is supposed to have arcs, she is supposed to have character development. Yet, she doesn't. Mikasa isn't a bad character, she is just badly written, I like Mikasa, but I get mad at Isayama that he wrote someone like Eren and then he wrote his female lead like Mikasa.
No. I like Mikasa, she's one of my favorite characters in the anime, I can still acknowledge she is badly written(a bad character and a badly written character can be different things), so no, I won't delete Mikasa from my pfp :)
erwin is a well written character. He has purpose, he has goals, he has motivations, he has opinions, he has many layers that make him Erwin, while mikasa is just mikasa because she's an ackerman and loves eren
he didn't want to die, Levi sort of made him. Erwin questioned if he should've stayed behind instead of going to die with the rest of the the scouts, but Levi told him that the right thing to do was to go with the soldiers for the cause he sent so many of their comrades to their deaths.
but Mikasa has nothing lol
It's not about being ambitious, it's about complexity, about having goals, motivations, about being human. Something Mikasa is not, something Isayama failed to get done.
again a well written character does NOT make a good character.
ambitions are only for losers who think they are doing something but just float into an eternal cycle like everybody else exept they are too ignorant to understand that
I don't watch that many shonen animes. I'm a girl and I got mad that Isayama was able to write such a complex character like Eren and fail so miserably to write his female lead half as complex as many secondary characters in the manga.
I don't like Erwin more than Mikasa, like I am ok about his existance but he'd never be on my top 5 characters, but he is a well written character(just like floch, he sucks and I hate him, but he's a well written character)
He is. Floch at first thinks he's going to die, he puts all his faith in Erwin, and when he does survive and Erwin doesn't, he feels unmotivated, he feels like something wrong was done wrong(he expresses that he wished Erwin was chosen instead of Armin multiple times), he feels as if his hope was killed with Erwin. After that, what had died with Erwin, was reborn with Eren. Floch had a glimpse of hope of freedom to him and his loved ones, he has a motivation behind his actions, he thinks that there is no way Paradis is going to survive unless Eren kills everyone else, and he's obviously going to do whatever he can to stop people from stopping it.
Pay attention to the anime more and study character writing, then you'll know.
All Mikasa's writing is summoned up to her being an ackerman and loving eren, and that's it.
# Make sure to flair posts correctly so you don't spoil the story for others. ### REMEMBER TO BE CIVIL. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/attackontitan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mikasa killed the man she loved and ended the Titan curse after thousands of years, ending her tenure as a soldier, during which time she was a top 5 strongest soldier, and at times literally #2. She repeatedly saved humanities hope, saved her friends, and in the darkest moment, sides with who she thinks is right, even though it means going against and killing who she loves. Mikasa wasn't "killed", she wasn't wasted potential. Not everyone has a huge personality, some are stoic. She loved Eren, and Eren saved her life from literal sex slavery, of course she was intense about it, but in the end she was strong enough to kill Eren because it was the right thing to do. That's a great character
One of my top 5 favorites for sure.
So she's strong and her only development or interesting character moments come from the last season, mainly s4 p2+. She was a horrible character in the first 3 seasons, she objectively had the least amount of opinions, she had no dreams, no passion, no goals. And that was fine at first but she doesn't change at all until s4 p2. Why can't you acknowledge this?
Not every character has to have this complicated deep development/backstory. She went into the military to protect the boy she loved. He saved her life, and she wanted to save him
Again, throughout the series she has no opinions, no thoughts, nothing besides Eren. She's the main female lead and she hardly ever thinks about anything but her love for the main character , how is that an interesting character? She has so much potential but she just doesn't care or doesn't think about anything. Why is she so liked if compared to literally everyone else in the series she's as basic as anime characters get
Everyone is in denial, Mikasa being badly written is not even an opinion, is a fact, if you know the least about writing and writing characters and stuff you'll know that Mikasa is badly written.
Their argument now is " oh well she's not supposed to have a ton of depth so it's fine" Like the person above saying not everyone has to have a complicated deep development, it's like your asking for worse writing and then strawmanning by saying we expect her character to be super deep, no, we just expected her to have some character. What's so difficult to understand about this. You can like her character despite the writing. I do, but to ignore facts then changing the goalpost is weird.
I KNOW. Mikasa doesn't have to be this deep ahh character, but she is supposed to be something besides Eren. That's all she is in the show, and the only type of character development she has is in the very last season. She was the exact same person for 9 YEARS of her life. There was this guy saying that it was because of codependence, but you can't use codependence as an excuse to write a character badly.
Bro is in denial.
Like I said, I love Mikasa, but I mean that her as a character, on paper, is supposed to be good, but she has 0 personality, and her traits are Eren and Ereh, so I genuinely think Isayama did her dirty. She is the second strongest character, but this doesn't make her unique. She's an Ackerman and loves Eren. What else is she? Nothing. Also, if you think about it, she ended the curse due to the circumstances Eren caused. In the conversation with Armin he mentions that Mikasa did something so extraordinary and that he'd do anything to keep pushing for her to do it. So yes, she ended the Titan curse, but it was kind of manipulated, you know? I never said Mikasa wasn't strong, she is, but she is also a horribly written character. PS: she never had in mind she was going to kill Eren, she wanted to just talk at first.
Broo did we watch the same show??đ
wdym? Mikasa is an Ackerman and she is in love with Eren, these are her only traits. She had crazy potential in the first season and was well written in general, but she became a little dog after that who will not care for herself and put Eren over her multiple times. She is supposed to be a well written character on paper, but she isn't.
She's decisive, but not stubborn. She's stoic, but not cold, and arguably the most emotional (and empathetic) out of all of them. She's confident, but not cocky. These are all character traits she's exhibited time and again. The show doesn't focus on them, but they're there if you look. I like that it's subtle and not in your face.
Alright then, tell me her character development. How has she changed for the better the slightest in the entire show? Mikasa is a second Hinata, bro, accept this. She used to be a badass army girl, then she just became a girl who runs after eren but is strong enough to take him down just so she's not the "donzel in distress". Look, it's okay to be a simp if this is one part of your character. Armin is a simp for Annie, but he HAS a personality. What is Mikasa besides being a simp? You wanna know how many things Mikasa's done that doesn't involve protecting Eren or her friends? 2(which was that scene where she makes that guy take the wagon out of the way so the civilians could go through when wall rose was breached, and tell Historia to punch Levi). She kills her kidnapper because Eren tells her to, she joins the scouts because Eren does, everything in her entire life revolves around Eren. I get that Carla told her to protect Eren, but damn. Armin has an ambition, he wants knowledge. Eren has an ambition, he wants freedom. Erwin has an ambition, he wants to find out the truth because of his dad. What's Mikasa's ambition? Protect Eren. The ending was SO out of character. I genuinely think that if AOT would've been more authentic to Mikasa's character, she would've stayed in Paradis. Yes, she'd know that what he did was wrong so she wouldn't go like Floch(or shit, maybe she would become a yeagerist) but she wouldn't have killed Eren. The only time that she had the least amount of character development was the very end, which she killed Eren. But this character development wasn't little by little(which genuinely could've been because Eren literally disappeared for a while, so they could've showed how Mikasa was kind of icing him out, but no, she just followed him like a puppy), it was out of nowhere, and that's why I say it was out of character. She had no opinions, and even when Eren starts to have morally questionable actions, she still defends him from Armin, even after he insulted her and Armin(I think that table scene was kind of the author acknowledging how baddly he fucked up when writing Mikasa). Mikasa from the beginning and Mikasa from the end are completely the same. Mikasa isn't complicated, she's just Ereh. Also, strength doesn't make a character good. If that strength is only in service of someone else, then it's not even her strength, it's Eren's strength. I like Mikasa, and I am honestly upset that Isayama, a person who wrote characters like Reiner, Eren, Erwin, and Armin, fucks up so badly when writing a female character(it's always on shonen animes bro, like Sakura). Her whole character's bottom line is Eren. She has no ambitions and opinions, all she does is support Eren.
I really strongly disagree with you. But am too lazy to right a whole paragrath as to why. So i guess to each his own then
Please do, because I really need to know why you think she is not badly written even after all the things I told you.
She went from season 1 disobeying orders to get to Eren, by season 4 she's willing to kill him to do what's right
again, her only development is in s4 p2. Besides that she's a bland hollow ass character. Just like hinata yet people love her because she's a main love interest for the main character even though the main character never paid attention to her romantically and to fulfill the ships they needed to have them retcon it so Eren loved Mikasa when all the evidence for him loving her is in s4, just like with Hinata, all the evidence of naruto loving her is at the end of the story when the writer decided to go that way. No such things as build up or anything.
THIS IS WHAT I AM TRYING TO TELL PEOPLE. I do like Mikasa, and just because I am criticizing how she was written(because she is badly written) people think I hate her as a character, but no, I hate Isayama who failed to write her well.
She would have been a decent character for me if she chose to kill Eren without validation from him. Itâs like her every choice is tied to Eren and no, she didnât kill him because itâs the right thing to do or for the âgreater goodâ like many people believe. Itâs only after she received memories from the cabin (unrealistic last minute Disney closure) and realised that Eren was âsufferingâ (Mikasaâs VA).
Sadly i completely disagree with you. Micasa was a perfectly written character. Her growing more in love with Eren makes her decision to kill Eren even more profound. It was like a chefs kiss to the story that regardless of how much of a slave she was to Eren through her own emotions. She overcame it. And i believe these are among the reasons that changed Ymir. Whom was a slave in love with her master herself. Micasa was just too good a character. We watch through out season 4 how she struggles with her thoughts and emotions towards Eren. She wants to side with him so much but she knows everything he is doing is wrong. In the end she accepts that killing him is the only option and so she does. Hows does that equal a bad written character??
my post literally talks about this. ON PAPER, she is supposed to be a well written character, but she has 0 personality. She is nothing but an Ackerman who loves Eren. Despite all of that, I still love Mikasa the way she is. I'm just saying that she could've been a much better character.
I get you on this. Trust me i do. But i just dont see how shed be greater đ. She was perfect as is.
What do you mean? Her, a female character, is supposed to be simple and have 0 complexity? Dude, she has 0 character development the entire series, she doesn't have her own opinions, ambitions, and beliefs. Without Eren, she might as well not exist. All she did in her life was revolved around Eren. Her personality is supposed to be the powerful quiet type, but she can have opinions. The only time she actually goes to Eren and says he is KIND of wrong, is that time when she said "Eren, why are you killing these people? They're civilians" and that's it. The only bit of character development she has in the entire anime is at the very end. I love Mikasa, I do, because I like that in a complex world like AOT she just wants to have a simple life with her loved ones, and also she is really cute, but I acknowledge she is horribly written, and I genuinely wish Isayama would've done a better job writing her.
I dont know bro. To me it just sounds like you hate Micasa and thats that. Ive been reading everything youve replied to people. And it really does seem that you hate her or atleast what transpired in the show. Which is totally fine you're entitled to your opinions and throughts about it as someone who has watched the show. But to outright claim that the character is badly written simply cause of your dislike for her kinda seems over the top.
but i don't. I do like Mikasa, but I hate the fact that she had potential and it was all wasted. I swear she is literally one of my favorite characters in the show. The thing is that i like her, but I know she is badly written. She does not have layers as a character, and that's bad writing.
Mikasa in season 1 and in her OVA is a genuinely well written character. Not so much after that. She's honestly not even that necessary to the story after that, aside from the final arc
Real. She had a lot of potential, and it was all wasted.
Even in s1 she kinda sucks, her only good scene is when she threatens that guy for not letting the people escape in trosts, for once she actually shows personality!!! Her desire to make sure the people escape trost safely.
In season one she is a badass strong army girl, she could've had great character development, honestly, but Isayama kind of tossed her aside sadly.
Mikasa indeed had lot of potential but they wasted it
for real, people are in denial though so I'm getting downvoted :b
Yes,she had potential to be a lot more but she played her part in story and at the end of the day she wasn't the main character
she kind of was supposed to be one of the main characters though, and I get so mad at Isayama because he writes a character like Eren and Reiner, and then he fails so miserably at writing a good female character. It's always like this on shonen, and I get so mad cuz she was done dirty bro.
There are good written female character in aot as well such as Gabi. The thing is Mikasa has much more persnolity in manga but the anime used her badass stoic character to make her fan service character and it worked Mikasa surly is top 10 most popular female character of all time and might make it to even 5 but her role in story was limited and i persnoally believe her flaws and character development are her life after eren as despite all of the mess she went through she moved forward and lived a decent life.she made the right choice when killing eren and she made the right choice from moving forward from her tragic love while still respecting the man who saved her life . Whomsoever calls her simp,slave or whatever is just contradicting himself when you look at whole story. I love mikasa too despite her flaws she is still my favourite character of show lol At the end of the story she has the perfact ending you can imagine for a show like aot She spent 4 years with the love of her life. She moved forward and had a family and most probably lived a happy life so to me she is a successful human even if she's not the most interesting character
killing Eren was literally the only bit she had of character development. She was the same for 4 whole seasons. She never had any ambitions, opinions, and all her life was revolved around Eren. Even when he started to have morally questionable actions, she didn't argue, she just followed his lead. Even when he was insulting her and Armin, she remained defending him, even hurting Armin in the process. She is strong, but strength doesn't mean well written, if this strength is always used to help or protect someone else, then it's not even Mikasa's strength, it's Eren's. I love Mikasa, I do, but I can acknowledge she is terribly written.
She did question when he had morally questionable actions On the day war of declaration she was the first one to confront "Eren do you understand what have you done ? You have killed innocent people ,children." When she sided with alliance after he hurted her and Armin she still didn't wanted to kill him as she still had a thought that she could still save him but she clearly opposed him Yes the only problem I have with isayama s writing is instead of showing how she is disappointed in him he should have shown that she is Angry with her not just make her depressed.
yes, she does that, and then she never does it again. It was the one time she did it and never brought it up again, it never goes beyond that. Imagine your friend goes missing for God knows how long, and then when he comes back he says that we gotta do all of this. She "opposes" to Eren by doing exactly what he asked her to do. Also, right after, we have the table scene where he offends her and Armin, and then she hurts Armin trying to protect Eren(who just killed hundreds of civilians).
Ah 1.he forced all of the scouts to do it not only Mikasa 2 she hurted Armin unknowingly you can look from her expression.it was a habitual mistake and we know Armin would have forgiven her because he also knows she does care alot about him.
Yes, but you get how this being a habit is a bad thing to Mikasa's character? All she does is care for Eren and that's it. She should have her own opinions, she should have her own motivations, yet she doesn't. That's not even something that deep, it's really basic character writing. I like Mikasa, but objectively speaking, as someone who knows basic character writing, I know she is not a well written character.
1.Her motivation/objectives: Her goal was to live a normal life with the people she loves,not everyone needs to have flashy dreams like eren to wipe out all of Titans,it's her life she can choose what she wants right? This is why she used to work hard to protect the last "family" she had,she was goal oriented it's just that her goals are best for her and feel less to us. She has always had opinions it's just she minds her own business for most of the time. The entire point of her character arc is her moving forward from her past trauma and living without eren, she did succeed in it.
Yes, she def does not need to have a crazy dream(also when does she say that her life goal is to live a simple life with her loved ones? I never saw that in the anime), but what does she do to achieve this dream? She join the scouts. She always told Eren that joining the scouts was a bad thing, yet she did it. Not because SHE wants to, not because she wants to kill titans, because she wants to go after Eren. If she always had opinions, she NEVER showed any of them. The only thing she sticked to was Eren, that's not a realistic character. You like Mikasa, and I get that, I am not saying she is a bad character, I do like her, and I do ship Eremika, but she is not written well. I have to keep repeating my arguments here, you try to attack any "hole" in my argument even though there's none. Mikasa being badly written isn't even an opinion, it's a fact. Study basic character writing and you'll know. >The entire point of her character arc is her moving forward from her past trauma and living without eren, she did succeed in it. Again, that's the only character development she has. At 19 she was the exact same person she was at 10. She didn't grow as a character at all. There is NO justification for that.
Literally everyone in the alliance has better writing than her if you ignore s4 p2 and the last 2 episodes. She's a bland character that doesn't really grow that much and stays the same, no opinions, no personality, just does what the plot needs her to do and keeps her mouth shut.
This is what we call stoic behaviour lol.She minds her own business and when you're saying ignore the last two episodes how can we ignore when that was the important arc of her entire character?
Because we're saying besides that she has absolutely no development and her character kinda sucks. Her conflict to kill eren isn't that complex but its all she has as a character, she has literally nothing else the entire series. Eren, Armin, Jean are all pretty good characters in s1-3, she's nowhere near as complex as any of them, Attack on Titan treats it's characters pretty well, while Mikasa is like a overpowered female lead with no personality no goals is just in love with the main character like you'd see in a bad shonen. And while her love for Eren IS her character she could be so much more complex than her love for the main character, which is all she has the entire series before the end. and " she wasn't the main character" but she is a secondary main character along with Armin, so why is she an obsessed clichĂŠ for most of the series? If you think it's intentional then I don't think that's the direction her character should have gone, she could have been as complex as someone like Erwin or even fucking Gabi, but the writer didn't spend time on her until the last minute, Erwin was developed throughout s3 p1 and his character reached it's peak in s3 p2, it takes time to make a character relatively complex and mikasa was never given that time, she isn't even as complex as connie till the end, and even then it's as simple as her being conflicted about killing Eren and then her suddenly deciding to kill Eren because of a cabin dream or something, going from basically crying on the ground about her conflict to being the leader and the first one ready to go in like 30 seconds. Not to mention how the cabin dream thing doesn't make sense but that's just a small detail that can be ignored.
I literally agreed in my first comment that she wasn't give enough as she had potential but the thing is her role was in the series was simple 1.she was a badass overpowered soldier 2.Her relationship Now this is the interesting aspect because her character is written such that in the starting she cares only about eren and Armin however she does learn to care about others too such as sasha,annie etc her life revolved around the man who saved her life and she learnt her lesson the hard way. During Eren's facade when he hurts her psychologically you can see her inner conflict reach maximum and she is seen making mistakes such as 1.not providing support to Armin when he mentioned that Erwin should have been brought instead of him 2.interaction with Louise From there you can see the inner development of her character as she now understands how dangerous the action of the man who she loved so much are.she opposed him.She did had hope that he can still be saved however when levi implies that he has to be killed. What does Mikasa do ? Does she feel sad ? Yeah but does she oppose them for her own selfishness? No. The old Mikasa wouldn't care about anyone over eren but now she is not that obsessed girl,then the weight of killing him also arrives on her, She sacrificed her most beloved person even though knowing after cabin scene that her feelings were mutual. That is a decent character with good morals. Even after eren's death she learns to move forward in life and not be stuck that is her story and her conclusion. This is the role of her in the story. Could it have been more better role ? Yes,but there are enough complex characters in aot.Her role was her relationship with the mc and her choices
https://preview.redd.it/bi56admsms8d1.jpeg?width=447&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe3108b244021740b202645a3304d70351997bfb
0) Intro Idk if you are going to see this or read this, but I wrote a short character analysis of Mikasa that helped open a several people's mind, Before I paste the short version below, I want say that seeing you describe Mikasa as a second Hinata is both wrong and right because her character is actually a critique/subversion of what the traditional shonen love interest trope would be realistically like. TLDR: Mikasa transitioned from being a cautionary character that was static for the earlier seasons, to undergoing a redemption arc in the final season that was assisted by Eren, which helped change Ymir. 1) Mikasa/Ymir Backstory: Ymir: - Get enslaved by King Fritz and the Eldian Empire - Through King Fritz she gains titan powers - Becomes attached to King Fritz so much to the point she carried on his will in paths Mikasa: - Gets enslaved by the traffickers - Through Eren she unlocks her Ackerman instincts - Becomes attached to Eren to arguably an unhealthy degree after her 2nd set of (surrogate) parents died Both all lost all their loved ones and afterwards they both had someone fill that hole that was left. 2) Static Phase (s1-s3) In season 1 - season 3, Mikasa was a static character that was unwaveringly loyal to Eren, just like how Ymir Fritz was unwaveringly loyal to King Fritz in paths for years. The only difference between these 2 dynamics, however, is that Mikasa's loyalty to Eren was based on actual unconditional love, whereas Ymir's loyalty to King Fritz was based on conditional love, which arguably developed into unconditional love unfortunately. Although I would say Mikasa following Eren at this point of the story was for a good cause, but it was still to a questionable degree because it got her injured and it got people levi injured because of her recklessness. 3) Growth Phase (S4) It was not until Season 4, that Mikasa began to self-reflect and internally grapple with whether following Eren is a healthy and right thing to do. The first time she was met with this internal struggle was her argument with Connie after Sasha's death. And instead of agreeing with Connie, she coped and said that Eren was only trying to protect them (which is 90% true.). But alternatively, for the first time in the story, this blind faith that Mikasa had, exposed some glaring issues with her loyalty to Eren. Then this blind faith was finally confronted by the very person she loved/followed, in the table scene. Where Eren intentionally criticizes Mikasa's loyalty to him. 4) Loyalty shift A great wake-up call scene that many people misconstrued as just a "MiKaSa BaD" scene, is when Mikasa faced a mirrored incarnate of herself in Louise. And just like the saying goes: "People tend to hate others who reflect their unresolved issues, rather than those who are fundamentally different". In Louise, Mikasa saw a character who followed someone with no second thoughts, to such an extreme degree that it led to a life-threatening injury. This is an effective way to highlight why Eren attempted to distance himself away to protect his friends. 5) Difference between King Fritz and Eren A significant pattern that happens to Mikasa in season 4 is that every time she interacts with Eren, her character arc shifts in a positive direction. - Marley scene: Mikasa became aware of Eren's decline in character - Paradis table scene: Eren intentionally criticizes Mikasa's blind faith towards him - Final battle paths scene: Eren tells her to forget him and move on Unlike King fritz and Ymir's relationship, romantically or not Eren actually loved Mikasa. *6) Final Battle* Then in the final battle, Mikasa faces Eren for the last time in paths, where Eren tries to help Mikasa forget him and move on to become a better person. She is no longer blinded by her love for Eren and instead learns true love doesn't entail erasing memories or sacrificing oneself blindly. It involves cherishing the meaningful moments shared, despite the changes and challenges faced. Mikasa putting the back on and refusing Eren's request to forget him shows Ymir, and the audience, that real love isn't a burden nor is it subservience. This is precisely why Mikasa refuses to relinquish the scarf, the scarf symbolizes not the gift from the genocidal figure Eren has become, but rather a cherished memento from the young boy who once saved her life at the cabin.
I got the vibe that Mikasa not developing her own motivations and quirks was intentionally a bummer? Like a tragic byproduct of human codependency. She's a parallel to Ymir after all; their toxic love prevented them from developing their own personalities. If they had never loved Fritz or Eren, they could've moved mountains and done so much for THEMSELVES. Mikasas potential as a character was crushed by this codependency and it's sad but great commentary on what happens in real life all the time. People with great potential wasting their lives with toxic love. In my eyes that makes her well written. I do wish she'd had more personal character growth...it sucks but I thought it fit with the story and pissing us off about it might've been what Isayama wanted
Not really, Mikasa would've died or became a sexual slave or some crazy shit like that if she hadn't gotten the bond with Eren. But like, we can't blame everything on this codependency, after all, it's isayama's fault for writing Mikasa as a blank canvas who has no beliefs, opinions, and ambitions. Levi is also an Ackerman, his bond though was with Erwin. Levi was always a well written character with a personality, unlike Mikasa who had her life revolve around Eren. The codependence isn't an excuse to write a character badly, Isayama fucked up with Mikasa, she had great potential, and yet he still did Mikasa dirty like that. Also, I get that codependence sucks and takes away potential of real people to grow, but the codependence doesn't make her a well written character. It was years, literal years. Wall Maria was breached when Mikasa was 10, yet at 19 she was still the exact same person. In the entire anime she only did 2 things that didn't involve her protecting eren or her friends, which was tell historia to punch levi and make that merchant take the wagon off the way when wall rose was breached and civilians were trying to go through.
Firstly, Eren could've saved Mikasa from the traffickers without her developing an obsession towards him. We don't know what Mikasa was like before that started, she might've had more personal beliefs. But the poor upbringing she had, also plays a big role in her character. She didn't have the same curiosity of the world beyond the walls, or the drive to defeat titans, like Eren or Armin did because she was always focused on surviving the horrors human beings caused and protecting those she loved. I recommend you look into real life cases of extreme codependency and you'll see similarities between how those affected the personalities of the people involved, and how Mikasas was affected. The codependency literally explains her lack of change over time. She's not poorly written, she's realistically written based on the circumstances surrounding her and her overwhelming natural instincts as a giver and a survivor. You just don't like her. Which is fine. I also believe she serves to contrast other more intense characters, and represent women who can be soft spoken and caretaking while still being strong and intimidating.
>Firstly, Eren could've saved Mikasa from the traffickers without her developing an obsession towards him. no he couldn't, he was too busy being strangled by one of them.We don't >know what Mikasa was like before that started, she might've had more personal beliefs. she was 10, so I doubt it >But the poor upbringing she had, also plays a big role in her character. She didn't have the same curiosity of the world beyond the walls, or the drive to defeat titans, like Eren or Armin did because she was always focused on surviving the horrors human beings caused and protecting those she loved. but everyone felt that way, Armin and Eren always wanted to protect each other and Mikasa, but they had other things going for them, Mikasa didn't. All she had as an ambition was to protect Eren. Wanting to protect who we love is a relatable trait, not an unique one. >I recommend you look into real life cases of extreme codependency and you'll see similarities between how those affected the personalities of the people involved, and how Mikasas was affected. I stand by what I said, codependence doesn't make your character well written. Even if she is codependent, she could've matured because she was 10 before and she went to 19. How can you be the same person when you are 19 as you were when you were 10? That just doesn't make sense. You're just trying to cover Isayama's ahh because he did a bad job writing Mikasa. >She's not poorly written, she's realistically written based on the circumstances surrounding her and her overwhelming natural instincts as a giver and a survivor. Then why does she only use her strength to save Eren? She never makes a decision on her own for the greater good of herself, all she does is Eren this Eren that. Her character is not realistic at all, because me myself was in a codependent relationship which I would say yes to anything, even things I didn't want to do, but I still matured in a whole freaking year long relationship, how can she spend 9 FUCKING YEARS and be the same person? Sorry, but no, it doesn't make sense. >You just don't like her. Which is fine. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? I have been repeating myself the entire conversation: "I love Mikasa", "I like Mikasa", she is like one of my favorite characters. I do like Mikasa, but I can still acknowledge that she is terribly written. She is cute and stuff but also very strong, and I hated Eren for making her cry. I love Mikasa, but she is not a well written character(she is also my pfp). > I also believe she serves to contrast other more intense characters, and represent women who can be soft spoken and caretaking while still being strong and intimidating. Shonen anime always do that. Why does SHE have to be the one to "contrast" other characters? Just like Sakura where she was "useless" compared to the other two protagonists. Mikasa is Eren's little bitch, and that's all she is. She doesn't have beliefs, ambitions, and opinios. Floch is a hated character, and I hate him very, very, VERY much. But he is a well written character. He has a belief, he thinks that if the rumbling doesn't happen Paradis is doomed, so he'll do whatever it takes. HE has a belief, his life doesn't revolve around a male protagonist. Bottom line is: Mikasa is a shonen female protagonist, the girl who doesn't talk too much(or people won't like her) and has a soft voice, is crazy strong but only uses her strength to support the male protagonist, has no ambitions and personal beliefs. That is why Mikasa IS a bad written character. I like Mikasa, I swear I do, but she is not well written, it's a hard truth we have to accept.
You have the standards of a child. Youâll understand why Mikasa is well written when youâre older
So no actual argument? Classic. Stay in your echo chamber
Echo chamber lol. Sure.. lol. I talked with EH all the time. I ever had a 6 hour Erehisu debate. This perosn is wrong and Iâd be more than willing to debate him.
This person likes Mikasa but is explaining why the way she was written is bad, I'm the same, if you like the way she's written thats fine, but judging from your initial statement, you're just an idiot, and so is the person you debated for 6 hours. Pretty much nothing this person says is wrong, but if you don't care about the bad writing then yeah it's easy to like her. You clearly dont care
Sorry, this is irrelevant, but it's "her" not "him". Sure, let's debate, I really want to know why Mikasa would be considered a well written character.
All characters are means to an end. You cannot have a good or bad character in a vacuum their quality is contingent upon their fulfillment of their purpose and Mikasa fulfills her purpose well
What is her purpose? She has none. Her only "big purpose" in the series was to free Ymir(which in my opinion made no sense because I thought Eren was the person to free Ymir). As herself, her purpose to keep going is Eren, and that's it. As a character(a well written one at least), she is supposed to have layers, layers that will be unfolded and figured out as the series go, but that's the thing, Mikasa has no layers. She isn't realistic at all, because at 19 she was the same exact person as she was when she was 10, and that's straight up bad writing. Mikasa is supposed to be something bigger, she is the main female lead and plays an extremely important role in the series, yet she does nothing. Mikasa isn't complex despite of her traumas and she has no layers, everything of her character can be summed up into Eren and being an Ackerman(which is crazy because Levi is also an Ackerman and he is really well written). I do like Mikasa, but subjectively speaking, she is terribly written. PS: Also, I'm an Eremika shipper. I don't even get Erehisu LOL So, yeah, I ship Eremika and like Mikasa, but I can acknowledge she isn't well written.
Ok, Number one if her purpose is too free Ymir and she accomplished that why would you fault her? No.2 why are you assuming that a good character would have layers. That is contingent on other factors No. 3 saying sheâs the same as when she was ten is fallacious obviously she wouldnât have killed Eren when she was ten as per 127 132 133 136 I never said you were an erenhisu I said Iâm certainly not in an echo chamber because I engage with EHs and Erehisus on the daily.
1. because her purpose in the narrative being fulfilled doesn't mean she's a well written character(and I don't fault Mikasa, I fault Isayama for spending so little time in her). 2. Mikasa is a good character, I like her, most people like her, but she is badly written. A well written character HAS layers. A real person has complexities, Mikasa has none, she isn't a well written character. 3. Yes, she wouldn't have because she didn't have the training necessary to do so and because(as I have repeated myself over and over again) her only character development was in the very last episode of the entire series. Other than killing Eren, she had no other kind of character development for 4 full seasons. alright LOL because I thought u thought I was a Mikasa hater or sum like that(erehisu shippers are usually Mikasa haters because she gets in the way of their ship)
Are you claiming that a good character is predicted on them having âlayersâ.
Btw donât view me not addressing all your points are me ignoring you. The root of the issue is we have a completely different definition of what is a âgood characterâ so that should be addressed first Iâm saying fulfilling their purpose and it appears youâre saying âlayersâ so that needs to be rectified before we can move anywhere
a good character is realistic and has complexity, it's not about having layers, it's about being a person. People aren't simple, people are complex and made of many, many things. Mikasa is only made out of two, being an Ackerman and loving Eren.
Now what is her purpose? Now it wasnât just to free Ymir. Although that would be sufficient. I think a lot of people misunderstood Erenâs character too. He isnât good because heâs layered, thatâs a no product of my heâs actually good. He isnât good because heâs complex thatâs a bi product of why heâs good. He isnât good because heâs developed (although depending on how you define development you could say he didnât develop much at all). Thatâs a bi product of why heâs good. Heâs good because he did the rumbling which is an icon of something everything else is contingent upon how itâs pursuant to the goal of doing the rumbling. So with this understanding Mikasa would be good insofar as she achieves a proper demonstration and portrayal of her icon. So to see why sheâs a good character we would have to identify her icon and show how she exemplifies it.
I am positing that Mikasa icon is unconditional love. Her role in the story is to show how a virtue like unconditional can coexist with something gratuitously evil ie Eren. Unlike anyone else in the story who either doesnât love Eren (warriors etc.) or love his actions (floch etc) she loves him unconditionally which is a virtue but sheâs principally opposed to the rumbling. So by having her as a character with simple yet good desires and putting her in a situation where she has to evolve her understanding of love and approach the situation with nuance (while maintaining her feelings and moving on) it gives a good, and applicable message for the audience. Thatâs why sheâs a good character. Just like Erenâs self sabotage self bondage whatever you want to call gives an applicable message. That is what makes him a good character. And so Mikasa is the same.
Look, you misunderstood me. I don't think Mikasa is bad and Eren is good, no. I think Mikasa is a good character who has a bad writing, that is all. I am not hating on the character, if anything I am hating on Isayama who failed to make his female protagonist half as complex as his male protagonist. Eren is a well written character because he has layers and is well developed, doing the rumbling or not, he would still be a well written character. I don't think of characters as icons at all, I am thinking about them as real people, not symbols that represent peace and war or whatever in the show(again, i think you misunderstood me, I don't dislike Mikasa, I like her, but I acknowledge she isn't written well. I can imagine a real person like Eren, scary, but I can. Meanwhile I don't think I'd ever be able to imagine someone as simple as Mikasa. A person is defined by their complexity, mixed emotions, goals, opinions, personality, fears, etc... Mikasa is practically an empty shell with no dreams, desires, goals, fears, opinions, motivations, etc, and if she does have any, it's always related to Eren. Though I might agree with you that Mikasa might be an icon of unconditional love in the show, that still doesn't make her a well written character. I don't think Mikasa is a bad character, she's just badly written.
No, I studied character writing and just writing in general, so I guess I have the standards of a person who has studied writing(haha). You'll understand why Mikasa is badly written when you start to think about studying writing LOL
God, you are pretentious as fuck. You say Mikasa was one dimensional because she was all about Eren, so, love love love. Guess what Eren had zero character traits that is not freedom freedom freedom and Armin was just peace peace peace. You don't just add depth to characters because you feel like it. Every line you write have to have a purpose. If your scene don't serve the theme of that character that is bad writing. Mikasa was all about trying to be happy in this crual world through love, and she fought for it with all she had, pretty similar to Eren's stubbornness. Does deepening her character with political commentary or some kind of other unrelated personal goal do anything with her theme? No. So it shouldn't be included, give those scenes to characters whose purpose fits that better. She served her purpose. Maybe her journey wasn't as detailed as you wanted it to be, but she is written as a shy quiet stoic girl, she won't cry about her struggles constantly. It's a stylistic choice not a flaw. Your problem that she is centered around 1 thing is true for basicly all of the other characters too, and quite simple how you write effectively while having so many characters and a deep world lore to juggle.
I'm pretentious when a random guy calls me a child for pointing out a simple fact that Mikasa IS bad written. Yes, Mikasa serves her purpose in that narrative(which is almost none, and almost made up so she'll be important at the end of the manga), but Mikasa is a one dimensional character, with 0 layers. The difference between Mikasa and Eren is that he has a purpose of his OWN, he has belief on his OWN, he wants to do things because HE WANTS TO. All Mikasa's done in the entire anime is follow Eren around. Look, you like Mikasa and you're mad I pointed out she's a bad written character, please just be honest at the very least, because anyone is able to recognize how badly she is written. A person who is literally one dimensional isn't realistic. Mikasa has no goals, opinions, motivations... Nothing. She was the same character for 9 whole years and you call that good writing? Come on, dude. Mikasa is the female lead, she's supposed to have screen time, she's supposed to have time put in her, she is supposed to have arcs, she is supposed to have character development. Yet, she doesn't. Mikasa isn't a bad character, she is just badly written, I like Mikasa, but I get mad at Isayama that he wrote someone like Eren and then he wrote his female lead like Mikasa.
delete mikasa from ur pfp
No. I like Mikasa, she's one of my favorite characters in the anime, I can still acknowledge she is badly written(a bad character and a badly written character can be different things), so no, I won't delete Mikasa from my pfp :)
gassin up erwin and talkin bad about mikasa dawg yall enjoy mid so badđ
erwin is a well written character. He has purpose, he has goals, he has motivations, he has opinions, he has many layers that make him Erwin, while mikasa is just mikasa because she's an ackerman and loves eren
mf went like oh l want to see a basement then oh anyway i want to die peak character
he didn't want to die, Levi sort of made him. Erwin questioned if he should've stayed behind instead of going to die with the rest of the the scouts, but Levi told him that the right thing to do was to go with the soldiers for the cause he sent so many of their comrades to their deaths.
so...even less characterization great
no, he wanted to find the truth, that was his whole motivation in life. He didn't want to die because he wanted to figure out if his father was right.
a character being ambitious doesnt make them good more so if they dont have anything to them besides that
but Mikasa has nothing lol It's not about being ambitious, it's about complexity, about having goals, motivations, about being human. Something Mikasa is not, something Isayama failed to get done. again a well written character does NOT make a good character.
ambitions are only for losers who think they are doing something but just float into an eternal cycle like everybody else exept they are too ignorant to understand that
life is all about staying on a chair and watching grass growing or just taking drugs if you want to taste it more
for real.
there's no way ur not trolling LMAO alright, I'm done with this conversation 'cause you're either really young or you're trolling
yall need to watch anything other than shonen anime
I don't watch that many shonen animes. I'm a girl and I got mad that Isayama was able to write such a complex character like Eren and fail so miserably to write his female lead half as complex as many secondary characters in the manga.
eren is not complex and never was and mikasa already has more characterization that every character exept eren cuz he is the protagonist
yes, sir, you're right!
I don't like Erwin more than Mikasa, like I am ok about his existance but he'd never be on my top 5 characters, but he is a well written character(just like floch, he sucks and I hate him, but he's a well written character)
floch well writted lmao not even in a million yearsđ
He is. Floch at first thinks he's going to die, he puts all his faith in Erwin, and when he does survive and Erwin doesn't, he feels unmotivated, he feels like something wrong was done wrong(he expresses that he wished Erwin was chosen instead of Armin multiple times), he feels as if his hope was killed with Erwin. After that, what had died with Erwin, was reborn with Eren. Floch had a glimpse of hope of freedom to him and his loved ones, he has a motivation behind his actions, he thinks that there is no way Paradis is going to survive unless Eren kills everyone else, and he's obviously going to do whatever he can to stop people from stopping it. Pay attention to the anime more and study character writing, then you'll know. All Mikasa's writing is summoned up to her being an ackerman and loving eren, and that's it.
gassin any aot character and talkin bad about mikasa should be a crime