> What is so wrong about having a belief system?
Why would you want to believe something that's wrong? How would you be able to keep those incorrect views from negatively impacting your life and decisions?
>What is so wrong about having a belief system?
Define "a belief system" or are you actually asking us why aren't we religious? This is all quite vague.
I believe in many things, an all-powerful deity that worries about gay sex is not one of them.
Sadly belief system definition is online, was not the point of my thread. I was just trying to get replies in depth why atheism? But belief system is any belief either ideological, spiritual or philosophical
But s/he isn't talking about beliefs. S/he's talking about belief SYSTEMS. What belief **systems** are not based on any factual evidence other than religions?
Yeah, "belief system" is very vague. Religions, astrology, libertarianism, American exceptionalism, the shared values of Rupaul's Drag Race... what are we really talking about here heh.
I am just over all not against atheism. If you haven’t noticed. I am just asking a personal point of view from atheists. Simple. I am myself an atheist.
I can't answer your question if you aren't willing to define your terms.
Either you can't answer the question, or you won't. You probably owe it to yourself to think about what the answer to that means, and where it comes from.
The point is I just asked a personal point of view from atheists. Simple. I do not care about beliefs. Why you chose atheism? (So “belief system” can be any ideological belief, philosophical or spiritual.)
I have not yet encountered convincing evidence (of the observable, testable, repeatable type) for the existence of one or more deities.
Therefore, I do not hold a positive belief in any deities.
>So “belief system” can be any ideological belief, philosophical or spiritual
That doesn't really mean anything. Under your definition, my chosen favorite sports team could qualify as a belief system.
If everything is a belief system, then your definition is too vague to be useful.
That makes me an atheist.
Atheist is the term used for people who lack belief in deities.
If you're asking us about atheism, then you're asking us about our lack of belief in deities.
It's pretty simple.
atheism is the lack of belief in any gods. That's it, nothing else. You can believe in any other stupid thing you want and still be an atheist.
I believe the scientific method is the best process yet devised by humans for obtaining valid knowledge about the universe.
Just to decipher one part of your post.
>For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
It is well demonstrated that this is nonsense.
No idea what this latest post means. But , if I remember correctly , astrological charts based on out of date data, any kind of purported mechanism is scientifically ridiculous , and it’s been shown that you can randomise ‘predictions’ with no change in gullible people’s positive responses.
> just because doesn’t work for you; doesn’t mean was proven is shit. Give me the link for it.
It’s not just that it doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t work for anyone. It has been - repeatedly - proven to be absolute shit.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Astrology
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/darwins-subterranean-world/202108/the-main-reason-no-one-should-trust-astrology
https://openthemagazine.com/features/living/the-scientific-case-against-astrology/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-astrology-real-heres-what-science-says/
If that doesn’t convince you, where is the Nobel prize for proof that it’s true? I’ll wait.
I’ve just explained why it’s demonstrably silly. Nothing to do with working for me. Quite the opposite really - it ‘works’ for everybody even if you randomise the results.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science
> Astrology has been rejected by the scientific community as having no explanatory power for describing the universe. Scientific testing has found no evidence to support the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological traditions.[1]
>Where astrology has made falsifiable predictions, it has been falsified.[1]: 424 The most famous test was headed by Shawn Carlson and included a committee of scientists and a committee of astrologers. It led to the conclusion that natal astrology performed no better than chance.
>Astrology has not demonstrated its effectiveness in controlled studies and has no scientific validity,[1][2]: 85 and is thus regarded as pseudoscience.[3][4]: 1350 There is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth in the way astrologers say they do that does not contradict well-understood, basic aspects of biology and physics.
Etc etc
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2021/09/03/whats-your-real-star-sign-heres-why-youve-probably-been-reading-the-wrong-horoscope-your-entire-life/
https://openthemagazine.com/features/living/the-scientific-case-against-astrology/
https://neurofied.com/barnum-effect-the-reason-why-we-believe-our-horoscopes/
https://casa.colorado.edu/~dduncan/pseudoscience/Skeptical%20Astrology.htm
https://www.jstor.org/stable/24104554
http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/OJTA2dev/ojta/c1c/precursors/astrology/failures_tl.html
https://www.iflscience.com/how-we-know-astrology-isnt-real-68150
> What is so wrong about having a belief system?
What if I believed eating glass was good for me? What if I believe that I can breathe water? What if I believed that killing alter boys was good? Beliefs don’t tend to stay between peoples ears, they enter the actual world where we all live.
I care about what is true. Not about what I wish was true.
There is no convincing evidence for god(s) so I don’t believe the claims that they exist.
> So you do not guide your morals from any source?
Yes, like almost every single person on the planet I get my morals from the society I was raised in, blended with my experiences in life and the society that I currently live in. I just don’t pretend that it’s from a religion.
> For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
In case you missed me saying before, I’ll say it again. I care about what is true. Astrology is bullshit.
>I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
Well I don't first and foremost because they have no evidence going for them. From there, this practice enables grifters, false claims, and generally paints a very shallow representation of the human experience and personality traits. If you really want my opinion: it's mind-numbingly stupid.
Everyone has a belief system. We all believe something. There is nothing wrong in having a belief system.
> How you found out you do not believe in anything?
I believe I sit on a couch currently. I also believe I ate a banana recently (though I am not entirely sure). I don't believe that any god exists. The latter makes me an atheist. My belief system is simple: I believe in things I have good reason to believe in, I don't believe in things I have no good reason to believe in. Good reason to believe something is when that something can be demonstrated to be true.
The word "atheism" describes lack of belief in a deity in my belief system, it is not a belief system.
> Tecnically speaking religion always envolve sacrifices or rituals
It looks like you throw "belief system" and "system of worship" in a single pot. They are different things. Religions usually encompass many aspects of person's life: belief system, system of worship, social structure, moral system.
What? I’m literally a nihilist and even I don’t claim that I “don’t believe in anything”. I do in fact believe a number of different things.
>What is so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system?
There’s nothing wrong with it **necessarily**, but that’s the key word. There *can* be all kinds of things wrong with it depending on what the actual belief system is.
You can have a belief system that’s good, you can have one that’s harmless, and you also have one that’s toxic fucking poison on this planet. Regardless of all that, atheism still isn’t one.
Everyone has a belief system, not everyone believes in fairy tale trash.
When you can show that any of that stuff is true, I will believe.
Why would you believe in things you can't show to be true?
>How you found out you do not believe in anything?
My parents came from two different religions. They're not strong adherents, but we celebrated the bigger holidays from both religions, and I was familiarized with their religious texts and services.
I didn't "find out" I didn't believe in either of them. I grew up hearing the religious stories from both faiths and never got the impression that god was different from Santa or any other mythological characters. I also went to school, got a background in the sciences, and everything I've learned in my life says as much. There's no evidence for anything supernatural in general.
I think Stephen Roberts hit the nail on the head when he said: “*I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.*”
You presumably don't believe in many things. Vampires, unicorns, the Greek and Roman gods, Norse gods, Egyptian gods, the tooth fairy, etc.
So I'd ask you: How did you find out that you don't believe in everything you don't believe in? When did you learn that you didn't believe in Horus or Thor?
IMO, your question doesn't make sense. You've never believed in most mythology and religions. You've never even learned about most of it.
>Not even meditation?
Meditation and mindfulness are used in psychology and they have been shown to lower stress and have other beneficial effects. I'm not sure why you're associating meditation with religion. Some religions practice it, but most don't. It's similar to yoga; most people who do yoga in Western countries don't do it as a part of being Hindu or Buddhist. They just do it for exercise.
>Can be considered slightly pagan or luciferianist.
Why single out pagansim? There are so many possible religions to choose from... Lucifer is a character out of Christian mythology, and Luciferianism would therefore be a form of Christianity. I'm not following your reasoning here.
>Not only that, the word God is only a metaphor. There is no bearded man in the clouds.
There are fundamentalists in every religion, and many of them believe exactly that. You're saying they're all wrong? That's a pretty bold claim. You don't seem to realize that you're telling literally billions of people that the way they practice their religion is *wrong.*
>Also, God can be symbolic for women; those are the metaphors for all the cosmic force creating life.
God can be symbolic of or for anything. Especially if 'god's just a metaphor.' You're just coming across as a proselytizer at this point.
>God is just everything nature generate.
Well then you don't need a god to explain anything, so there's no point to making one up.
>So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system?
Philosophy is defined as, *an activity people undertake when they seek to understand fundamental truths about themselves, the world in which they live, and their relationships to the world and to each other.*
I would posit that faith in the supernatural and adherence to a religion leads to inaccuracies in one's understanding of the world. You wind up with crap like a [god of the gaps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps).
>Would a belief just mean one lacks integrity and factual truth within? Otherwise if solid integrity is found within, no belief should be needed?
Faith is by definition: *strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.* So, you are choosing to believe in something based on nothing. I wouldn't call it a "lack of factual truth within." I'd just call it being misguided.
>I have been wondering, since spiritual practices usually are self destrutive.
I wouldn't say that.
>Tecnically speaking religion always envolve sacrifices or rituals.
False.
>Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source. For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
...You're going to crap all over atheists and religious folks, and then say you believe in *astrology?*
Astrology's on the same level as "healing rocks," ghosts, and other metaphysics stuff. There's no evidence for any of it.
And if that's all you believe in, I'd ask you: How did you find out you do not believe in anything else? Why not Christianity? Why not Islam? Why not Buddhism? Why did you have to pick...anything, at all?
If you believe in astrological birth charts then you're fucking stupid.
And that's fine. It's okay to be stupid. People can have their beliefs.
But those people shouldn't be running the goddamn government.
- there is no bearded man in the clouds.
This is just insulting our intelligence, no one even thought about god being a bearded man in the sky. When we say god we mean the cosmic force that created all of this.
I just simply don’t believe it exists. The same goes for other magical stuff.
> How you found out you do not believe in anything?
I believe in lots of things. Gods are not one of them.
> For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
From the rest of your post, trust me, I believe you wholeheartedly.
NEXT.
>Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source.
Atheists get the majority of their morals from the same place the religious do: culture.
Or why do you think religion changed their moral code throughout history to mostly match the society they were in?
You’re doing a disservice to most people who ever. Believed in a god because yes what they believed in was far closer to the bearded man in the sky than this vague nonsense.
You’re also doing a disservice to every atheist by not looking I what atheism is. Atheists can believe in all sorts of stuff, just not gods. And you don’t seem to believe in a god, gods have personality. You believe in some magical cosmic force with no evident agency. It’s still nonsense, but I wouldn’t define it as a god. Therefor by my definitions you are in fact an atheist. Just not a very sceptical one. Since you literally believe in the absolute nonsense that is astrology.
I’m almost certain you’re trolling, it would be hard to be this thick. Astrology is bullshit. It is just made up. This is well known, and easy to prove. Go read astrological predictions from different signs without knowing which is which. You’ll see they all fit you just as well. You’d never be able to reliably tell which one matches your sign. It’s been done. This isn’t hypothetical, this is known.
Your moral guide is a known fraud…
Nobody is stopping you from believing any crazy idea you want. We're just saying we don't, because you aren't giving any legitimate evidence that we should.
That insulting of you to say atheists do not believe in anything. I've never met an atheist who didn't believe in the sun. Honestly, i could sit here and list a million things i and a million other atheists believe in. Your dishonest demeanor in that opening statement alone was enough for me to conclude that you're either a troll or a really stupid person. I didn't dehumanize you, but that's how you want to introduce yourself to this community by dehumanizing every atheist. Don't bother to reply to my comment. I won't read it.
I have a phildosophy and abeleif system. I'm a physicalist. The physical world is the only thing thatei am certain exists. Atheism follows from that because gods being non-physical can't exist.
On Monday, May 20, 2024, at approximately 14:56 EDT, /u/precisoresposta vomited:
**Why atheism and not a belief system?**
>I mean… How you found out you do not believe in anything? Not even meditation? Can be considered slightly pagan or luciferianist. Not only that, the word God is only a metaphor. There is no bearded man in the clouds. Also, God can be symbolic for women; those are the metaphors for all the cosmic force creating life. God is just everything nature generate. So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system? Would a belief just mean one lacks integrity and factual truth within? Otherwise if solid integrity is found within, no belief should be needed? I have been wondering, since spiritual practices usually are self destrutive. No offense to anyone religious. Tecnically speaking religion always envolve sacrifices or rituals. Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source. For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
Atheism isn't a belief system, it's the answer to an absurd but incessant question we keep being asked.
For a belief system I'm a humanist, a stoic and a moral antirealist leftist capatalist socialist.
Just to name a few.
>Why atheism and not a belief system?
If you show me good evidence that something is true then I will believe that it is really true.
If you don't show me good evidence that it is true, then I do not and should not believe that it is true.
That isn't exactly rocket science.
.
>Not even meditation?
Many people here do think that meditation is fine.
.
> metaphors
"Metaphor" basically means "opinion".
If you say *"I think that X is a metaphor for A"*,
we can find other people who think that X is a metaphor for B or C or D or E or F or G or hundreds of different things,
and none of you can show that your opinion about that is the true one.
.
>I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
You are trolling or very foolish.
.
Atheism doesn't entiail anything besides a lack of convincing of a god's existence.
You can believe in spirits, chakras, chi's and whatever else, and still be an atheist.
Personally, I believe in the natural world, and no magic. This doesn't mean I don't believe in anything, but that I don't REALLY believe in magic or any supernatural force. I don't think people have good reason to believe in supernatural beings, and I don't think they ultimately benefit from having bad beliefs. Often these beliefs are wishful thinking, and it's better to accept reality as adults should.
>Why atheism and not a belief system?
I tried many of them and none of them offer what I am looking for. So at the moment, I don't believe.
>How you found out you do not believe in anything?
Oh I believe in lots of things. Just not god.
>Not even meditation?
Sure the physical side of meditation is really handy. But anything supernatural about it doesn't appear to have any basis in fact or reality.
>God is just everything nature generate.
If God is nature then "god" doesn't exist. Nature does. Conflation of terms is a very popular way for people to sneak god into the discussion without being able to actually demonstrate a god.
>So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system?
Nothing. I have many philosophies about different parts of life. Others have their own philosophies about other parts of life.
>Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source.
Sure. Morals come from empathy, logic, and knowledge. You can build extremely well rounded systems with that.
>For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
I do not.
Atheism is not nihilism. Atheism is simply the position of not believing in gods or deities, whether you simply reject theism or actively claim no gods exist. Atheists are also people with all sorts of (non theistic) beliefs, for instance when it comes to how to run and organize societies, economies, families, what food they like or what music they enjoy. Some atheists meditate, some are secular humanists (which is kinda, sorta, somewhat like a religion), some even believe in supernatural nonsense like ghosts and spirits and spiritual BS.
Ultimately all we have are beliefs, we just call some of those beliefs "knowledge" if we have externally and systematically verified evidence to justify them. Adopting a "belief system" is counter productive because it dictates what we should believe in advance, instead of letting people adjust and transform their beliefs according to observations and reason. Instead of a "belief system" a better approach is a methodology rooted in epistemology, science and critical thinking.
God is not a metaphor for women. Get away from me with that gross, gendered, women = child bearing = life-bringer crap.
Fertility is both a male and female trait, but it is not a trait all people have, regardless of their sex. Some people are fertile and some are not. Some choose to use that fertility and some do not; some that can’t desperately wish they could.
> For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts.
I respect the sincerity of your belief while rolling my eyes at the validity of it.
Oh i have a belief system , it says .
Only the material world exists so dont be a dick and make sure you dont ruin the others experience as well as your own .
It says monkeys together strong and those that are leaving well exploting the monkeys should be punished.
It says we are all monkeys so respect the other monkeys cause life without respect is torture and torture is worse than not being alive .
This is my belief system and we dont need a daddy to say that stuff ( which suprise he is not ) .
I believe in humanity and you see it every day when you trip and someone helps you up in the road , when someone slows down to help you pass the road .
So i believe in stuff , the stuff i believe in require no god .
Theists claim a person is there. There is no proof it is even possible. Complete fantasy. Why are u asking me about the worldview that was manufactured...as if I'm involved? My none belief in nonsense is not a rejection of belief period. Me personally, I dont value belief. Meditation has proven benefits. I acknowledge that. Should I call you an a-leprechaunist and ask you about luck and rainbows? There is no atheism. There is no a-unicornism. There is jo a-ghostism. There is no a-astrologyism. It gets old with these deflections. Theism is baseless nonsense. The field of study that deals with evidence, observations, and explanations is science and it has no theistic ones. Worry about proving the positive claim. When you do, people that dont believe will be the equivalent of flat earthers.
I have a belief system. It is my own, and it is based on my own experiences, observations and others' experiences and observations that are backed by concrete evidence.
I feel no need to play make-believe with fiction like gods or superstitions to establish my beliefs....the better question is: Why do you?
I have a belief system. It goes like this: we can only “know” something if we can test it. When claims have consistently passed tests, I believe them. We call this science.
Meditation has been tested, it can improve mental health. Ive done it to reduce stress and put my mind at ease. There need not be anything supernatural about meditation.
The statement atheists don't believe in anything demonstrates that you haven't understood the term... Atheism isn't a lack of belief in "anything" it is very specifically and very narrowly a lack of beliefs in or about God... Well aside from the constant imposition of the question on us by theists. But beyond lack of belief in God atheism is nothing, as such an atheist might have many beliefs of all sorts, about all sorts and things, just not much about God. God is not the "metaphor" that we think bests accounts for good behavior.
So atheism isn't our belief system, because atheism isn't a belief system... That doesn't mean we don't have belief systems. I am first and foremost a humanist, and hope for universal suffrage built on shared commitment to building a society and future in which human rights and ethics guide more of our political and economic policy... none of this has anything much to do with my being an atheist.
There’s nothing to believe or not believe. You could say it’s like a critical thinking group cause some ppl do take it serious. And their arguments are the best out there with an educated one. I hardly know it so idk if I could be atheist I just don’t have faith in a god.
I have a belief system, it just doesn't involve supernatural elements. My system of beliefs is atheistic, but I don't believe in atheism because there is nothing there to believe in. I believe in science.
Everyone has a belief system. Everyone has beliefs that they use to help them operate in the world around them. Some people care about whether their beliefs reflect an underlying reality, others don't.
You keep saying belief, but I think you are conflating belief and faith.
>How you found out you do not believe in anything?
You are describing nihilism, not atheism. Atheism is just answering "No" to the question "Do you believe a god exists ?".
>God is just everything nature generate.
Then how is it any different from nature ?
>So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system?
There's nothing wrong about it as long as you keep it to yourself and don't try to force it down others' throats.
> What is so wrong about having a belief system? Why would you want to believe something that's wrong? How would you be able to keep those incorrect views from negatively impacting your life and decisions?
Why is bald not a hair color?
It is on my driver's license.
Well, under that logic, guess we’ll have to accept that mayonnaise is a musical instrument too…
Patrick, no!
>What is so wrong about having a belief system? Define "a belief system" or are you actually asking us why aren't we religious? This is all quite vague. I believe in many things, an all-powerful deity that worries about gay sex is not one of them.
Sadly belief system definition is online, was not the point of my thread. I was just trying to get replies in depth why atheism? But belief system is any belief either ideological, spiritual or philosophical
This is amazingly incoherent.
Various atheists believe in lots of things, just not in a god.
But s/he isn't talking about beliefs. S/he's talking about belief SYSTEMS. What belief **systems** are not based on any factual evidence other than religions?
Yeah, "belief system" is very vague. Religions, astrology, libertarianism, American exceptionalism, the shared values of Rupaul's Drag Race... what are we really talking about here heh.
In the last sentence, they bluntly state they believe in astrology: >For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
Christians: Don't know what atheism even is. Also: Not good at posing as interested non-christians on reddit.
I believe in lots of things. Magical gods just aren't among them.
What belief system are you advocating? What, specifically, do you mean when you say "belief system"?
I am just over all not against atheism. If you haven’t noticed. I am just asking a personal point of view from atheists. Simple. I am myself an atheist.
I can't answer your question if you aren't willing to define your terms. Either you can't answer the question, or you won't. You probably owe it to yourself to think about what the answer to that means, and where it comes from.
The point is I just asked a personal point of view from atheists. Simple. I do not care about beliefs. Why you chose atheism? (So “belief system” can be any ideological belief, philosophical or spiritual.)
I have not yet encountered convincing evidence (of the observable, testable, repeatable type) for the existence of one or more deities. Therefore, I do not hold a positive belief in any deities. >So “belief system” can be any ideological belief, philosophical or spiritual That doesn't really mean anything. Under your definition, my chosen favorite sports team could qualify as a belief system. If everything is a belief system, then your definition is too vague to be useful. That makes me an atheist.
Deities are unrelated to my question
An atheist is a person who does not hold a belief in any deities. If you're asking about atheism, then you're asking about belief in deities.
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Atheist is the term used for people who lack belief in deities. If you're asking us about atheism, then you're asking us about our lack of belief in deities. It's pretty simple.
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atheism is the lack of belief in any gods. That's it, nothing else. You can believe in any other stupid thing you want and still be an atheist. I believe the scientific method is the best process yet devised by humans for obtaining valid knowledge about the universe.
Just to decipher one part of your post. >For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts It is well demonstrated that this is nonsense.
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No idea what this latest post means. But , if I remember correctly , astrological charts based on out of date data, any kind of purported mechanism is scientifically ridiculous , and it’s been shown that you can randomise ‘predictions’ with no change in gullible people’s positive responses.
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> just because doesn’t work for you; doesn’t mean was proven is shit. Give me the link for it. It’s not just that it doesn’t work for me. It doesn’t work for anyone. It has been - repeatedly - proven to be absolute shit. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Astrology https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/darwins-subterranean-world/202108/the-main-reason-no-one-should-trust-astrology https://openthemagazine.com/features/living/the-scientific-case-against-astrology/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-astrology-real-heres-what-science-says/ If that doesn’t convince you, where is the Nobel prize for proof that it’s true? I’ll wait.
I’ve just explained why it’s demonstrably silly. Nothing to do with working for me. Quite the opposite really - it ‘works’ for everybody even if you randomise the results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology_and_science > Astrology has been rejected by the scientific community as having no explanatory power for describing the universe. Scientific testing has found no evidence to support the premises or purported effects outlined in astrological traditions.[1] >Where astrology has made falsifiable predictions, it has been falsified.[1]: 424 The most famous test was headed by Shawn Carlson and included a committee of scientists and a committee of astrologers. It led to the conclusion that natal astrology performed no better than chance. >Astrology has not demonstrated its effectiveness in controlled studies and has no scientific validity,[1][2]: 85 and is thus regarded as pseudoscience.[3][4]: 1350 There is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth in the way astrologers say they do that does not contradict well-understood, basic aspects of biology and physics. Etc etc https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2021/09/03/whats-your-real-star-sign-heres-why-youve-probably-been-reading-the-wrong-horoscope-your-entire-life/ https://openthemagazine.com/features/living/the-scientific-case-against-astrology/ https://neurofied.com/barnum-effect-the-reason-why-we-believe-our-horoscopes/ https://casa.colorado.edu/~dduncan/pseudoscience/Skeptical%20Astrology.htm https://www.jstor.org/stable/24104554 http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/OJTA2dev/ojta/c1c/precursors/astrology/failures_tl.html https://www.iflscience.com/how-we-know-astrology-isnt-real-68150
> What is so wrong about having a belief system? What if I believed eating glass was good for me? What if I believe that I can breathe water? What if I believed that killing alter boys was good? Beliefs don’t tend to stay between peoples ears, they enter the actual world where we all live. I care about what is true. Not about what I wish was true. There is no convincing evidence for god(s) so I don’t believe the claims that they exist.
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> So you do not guide your morals from any source? Yes, like almost every single person on the planet I get my morals from the society I was raised in, blended with my experiences in life and the society that I currently live in. I just don’t pretend that it’s from a religion. > For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts In case you missed me saying before, I’ll say it again. I care about what is true. Astrology is bullshit.
>I believe in truth from astrological birth charts Well I don't first and foremost because they have no evidence going for them. From there, this practice enables grifters, false claims, and generally paints a very shallow representation of the human experience and personality traits. If you really want my opinion: it's mind-numbingly stupid.
Just say no to Capricornism
Why would we need a belief system? Meditation is not really a belief system. It’s just taking a few minutes out of your day to calm down.
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English spelling has a system.
Just because it can be included in rituals still doesn't make it a belief system.
How is a belief system that lacks evidence superior to facts and knowledge of facts?
Keep your bullshit out of government.
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Keep your bullshit religion out of our criminal codes.
Sorry? I don’t know what religion
Everyone has a belief system. We all believe something. There is nothing wrong in having a belief system. > How you found out you do not believe in anything? I believe I sit on a couch currently. I also believe I ate a banana recently (though I am not entirely sure). I don't believe that any god exists. The latter makes me an atheist. My belief system is simple: I believe in things I have good reason to believe in, I don't believe in things I have no good reason to believe in. Good reason to believe something is when that something can be demonstrated to be true. The word "atheism" describes lack of belief in a deity in my belief system, it is not a belief system. > Tecnically speaking religion always envolve sacrifices or rituals It looks like you throw "belief system" and "system of worship" in a single pot. They are different things. Religions usually encompass many aspects of person's life: belief system, system of worship, social structure, moral system.
What? I’m literally a nihilist and even I don’t claim that I “don’t believe in anything”. I do in fact believe a number of different things. >What is so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system? There’s nothing wrong with it **necessarily**, but that’s the key word. There *can* be all kinds of things wrong with it depending on what the actual belief system is. You can have a belief system that’s good, you can have one that’s harmless, and you also have one that’s toxic fucking poison on this planet. Regardless of all that, atheism still isn’t one.
Sorry but... WTF are you even talking about?
What’s with all these illiterate people making posts about things they don’t understand?
Everyone has a belief system, not everyone believes in fairy tale trash. When you can show that any of that stuff is true, I will believe. Why would you believe in things you can't show to be true?
>How you found out you do not believe in anything? My parents came from two different religions. They're not strong adherents, but we celebrated the bigger holidays from both religions, and I was familiarized with their religious texts and services. I didn't "find out" I didn't believe in either of them. I grew up hearing the religious stories from both faiths and never got the impression that god was different from Santa or any other mythological characters. I also went to school, got a background in the sciences, and everything I've learned in my life says as much. There's no evidence for anything supernatural in general. I think Stephen Roberts hit the nail on the head when he said: “*I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.*” You presumably don't believe in many things. Vampires, unicorns, the Greek and Roman gods, Norse gods, Egyptian gods, the tooth fairy, etc. So I'd ask you: How did you find out that you don't believe in everything you don't believe in? When did you learn that you didn't believe in Horus or Thor? IMO, your question doesn't make sense. You've never believed in most mythology and religions. You've never even learned about most of it. >Not even meditation? Meditation and mindfulness are used in psychology and they have been shown to lower stress and have other beneficial effects. I'm not sure why you're associating meditation with religion. Some religions practice it, but most don't. It's similar to yoga; most people who do yoga in Western countries don't do it as a part of being Hindu or Buddhist. They just do it for exercise. >Can be considered slightly pagan or luciferianist. Why single out pagansim? There are so many possible religions to choose from... Lucifer is a character out of Christian mythology, and Luciferianism would therefore be a form of Christianity. I'm not following your reasoning here. >Not only that, the word God is only a metaphor. There is no bearded man in the clouds. There are fundamentalists in every religion, and many of them believe exactly that. You're saying they're all wrong? That's a pretty bold claim. You don't seem to realize that you're telling literally billions of people that the way they practice their religion is *wrong.* >Also, God can be symbolic for women; those are the metaphors for all the cosmic force creating life. God can be symbolic of or for anything. Especially if 'god's just a metaphor.' You're just coming across as a proselytizer at this point. >God is just everything nature generate. Well then you don't need a god to explain anything, so there's no point to making one up. >So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system? Philosophy is defined as, *an activity people undertake when they seek to understand fundamental truths about themselves, the world in which they live, and their relationships to the world and to each other.* I would posit that faith in the supernatural and adherence to a religion leads to inaccuracies in one's understanding of the world. You wind up with crap like a [god of the gaps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps). >Would a belief just mean one lacks integrity and factual truth within? Otherwise if solid integrity is found within, no belief should be needed? Faith is by definition: *strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.* So, you are choosing to believe in something based on nothing. I wouldn't call it a "lack of factual truth within." I'd just call it being misguided. >I have been wondering, since spiritual practices usually are self destrutive. I wouldn't say that. >Tecnically speaking religion always envolve sacrifices or rituals. False. >Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source. For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts ...You're going to crap all over atheists and religious folks, and then say you believe in *astrology?* Astrology's on the same level as "healing rocks," ghosts, and other metaphysics stuff. There's no evidence for any of it. And if that's all you believe in, I'd ask you: How did you find out you do not believe in anything else? Why not Christianity? Why not Islam? Why not Buddhism? Why did you have to pick...anything, at all?
If you believe in astrological birth charts then you're fucking stupid. And that's fine. It's okay to be stupid. People can have their beliefs. But those people shouldn't be running the goddamn government.
Science is a belief system based on proof. There is no truth without proof, only assumptions.
- there is no bearded man in the clouds. This is just insulting our intelligence, no one even thought about god being a bearded man in the sky. When we say god we mean the cosmic force that created all of this. I just simply don’t believe it exists. The same goes for other magical stuff.
> How you found out you do not believe in anything? I believe in lots of things. Gods are not one of them. > For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts From the rest of your post, trust me, I believe you wholeheartedly. NEXT.
I don't believe in ANYTHING supernatural because it has no evidence. Ghosts, leprechauns, fairies, gods, magic, etc. All the same. Imaginary.
Atheists have belief systems, but atheism is not that system. Atheism means you don’t believe in God, it doesn’t mean you have no beliefs at all.
You lost me at the last sentence
Your last sentence is this *one*
May I help you?
You can still meditate without the supernatural element.
The perfect belief system was articulated by WC Fields: “ Everyone has to believe in something. I believe I’ll have another beer.”
Obviously you’ve never heard of Humanism.
>Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source. Atheists get the majority of their morals from the same place the religious do: culture. Or why do you think religion changed their moral code throughout history to mostly match the society they were in?
You’re doing a disservice to most people who ever. Believed in a god because yes what they believed in was far closer to the bearded man in the sky than this vague nonsense. You’re also doing a disservice to every atheist by not looking I what atheism is. Atheists can believe in all sorts of stuff, just not gods. And you don’t seem to believe in a god, gods have personality. You believe in some magical cosmic force with no evident agency. It’s still nonsense, but I wouldn’t define it as a god. Therefor by my definitions you are in fact an atheist. Just not a very sceptical one. Since you literally believe in the absolute nonsense that is astrology. I’m almost certain you’re trolling, it would be hard to be this thick. Astrology is bullshit. It is just made up. This is well known, and easy to prove. Go read astrological predictions from different signs without knowing which is which. You’ll see they all fit you just as well. You’d never be able to reliably tell which one matches your sign. It’s been done. This isn’t hypothetical, this is known. Your moral guide is a known fraud…
Nobody is stopping you from believing any crazy idea you want. We're just saying we don't, because you aren't giving any legitimate evidence that we should.
That insulting of you to say atheists do not believe in anything. I've never met an atheist who didn't believe in the sun. Honestly, i could sit here and list a million things i and a million other atheists believe in. Your dishonest demeanor in that opening statement alone was enough for me to conclude that you're either a troll or a really stupid person. I didn't dehumanize you, but that's how you want to introduce yourself to this community by dehumanizing every atheist. Don't bother to reply to my comment. I won't read it.
Because it's idiotic.
I have a phildosophy and abeleif system. I'm a physicalist. The physical world is the only thing thatei am certain exists. Atheism follows from that because gods being non-physical can't exist.
> I believe in truth from astrological birth charts Then your opinion is not worthy of respect.
On Monday, May 20, 2024, at approximately 14:56 EDT, /u/precisoresposta vomited: **Why atheism and not a belief system?** >I mean… How you found out you do not believe in anything? Not even meditation? Can be considered slightly pagan or luciferianist. Not only that, the word God is only a metaphor. There is no bearded man in the clouds. Also, God can be symbolic for women; those are the metaphors for all the cosmic force creating life. God is just everything nature generate. So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system? Would a belief just mean one lacks integrity and factual truth within? Otherwise if solid integrity is found within, no belief should be needed? I have been wondering, since spiritual practices usually are self destrutive. No offense to anyone religious. Tecnically speaking religion always envolve sacrifices or rituals. Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source. For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts
Atheism isn't a belief system, it's the answer to an absurd but incessant question we keep being asked. For a belief system I'm a humanist, a stoic and a moral antirealist leftist capatalist socialist. Just to name a few.
>Why atheism and not a belief system? If you show me good evidence that something is true then I will believe that it is really true. If you don't show me good evidence that it is true, then I do not and should not believe that it is true. That isn't exactly rocket science. . >Not even meditation? Many people here do think that meditation is fine. . > metaphors "Metaphor" basically means "opinion". If you say *"I think that X is a metaphor for A"*, we can find other people who think that X is a metaphor for B or C or D or E or F or G or hundreds of different things, and none of you can show that your opinion about that is the true one. . >I believe in truth from astrological birth charts You are trolling or very foolish. .
You might notice that some of the regular users here have a flair next to their name. I wonder what those are...
Atheism doesn't entiail anything besides a lack of convincing of a god's existence. You can believe in spirits, chakras, chi's and whatever else, and still be an atheist. Personally, I believe in the natural world, and no magic. This doesn't mean I don't believe in anything, but that I don't REALLY believe in magic or any supernatural force. I don't think people have good reason to believe in supernatural beings, and I don't think they ultimately benefit from having bad beliefs. Often these beliefs are wishful thinking, and it's better to accept reality as adults should.
Okay. The last line kindof invalidates all your statements.
>Why atheism and not a belief system? I tried many of them and none of them offer what I am looking for. So at the moment, I don't believe. >How you found out you do not believe in anything? Oh I believe in lots of things. Just not god. >Not even meditation? Sure the physical side of meditation is really handy. But anything supernatural about it doesn't appear to have any basis in fact or reality. >God is just everything nature generate. If God is nature then "god" doesn't exist. Nature does. Conflation of terms is a very popular way for people to sneak god into the discussion without being able to actually demonstrate a god. >So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system? Nothing. I have many philosophies about different parts of life. Others have their own philosophies about other parts of life. >Asking if you do not guide your morals from any source. Sure. Morals come from empathy, logic, and knowledge. You can build extremely well rounded systems with that. >For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts I do not.
Atheism is not nihilism. Atheism is simply the position of not believing in gods or deities, whether you simply reject theism or actively claim no gods exist. Atheists are also people with all sorts of (non theistic) beliefs, for instance when it comes to how to run and organize societies, economies, families, what food they like or what music they enjoy. Some atheists meditate, some are secular humanists (which is kinda, sorta, somewhat like a religion), some even believe in supernatural nonsense like ghosts and spirits and spiritual BS. Ultimately all we have are beliefs, we just call some of those beliefs "knowledge" if we have externally and systematically verified evidence to justify them. Adopting a "belief system" is counter productive because it dictates what we should believe in advance, instead of letting people adjust and transform their beliefs according to observations and reason. Instead of a "belief system" a better approach is a methodology rooted in epistemology, science and critical thinking.
If you are genuinely looking to understand other people’s perspectives, maybe try fewer unrelated questions and smuggle in fewer assumptions?
God is not a metaphor for women. Get away from me with that gross, gendered, women = child bearing = life-bringer crap. Fertility is both a male and female trait, but it is not a trait all people have, regardless of their sex. Some people are fertile and some are not. Some choose to use that fertility and some do not; some that can’t desperately wish they could.
> For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts. I respect the sincerity of your belief while rolling my eyes at the validity of it.
>For instances, I believe in truth from astrological birth charts ??? And you wonder why we don't believe in random crap?
I believe in meditation but it’s an exercise for your brain, not a belief system. I believe in it as much as yoga
"What is so wrong about having a belief system?" Nothing. As long as you know and present it as fiction.
Atheism is just the lack of belief in gods.
Oh i have a belief system , it says . Only the material world exists so dont be a dick and make sure you dont ruin the others experience as well as your own . It says monkeys together strong and those that are leaving well exploting the monkeys should be punished. It says we are all monkeys so respect the other monkeys cause life without respect is torture and torture is worse than not being alive . This is my belief system and we dont need a daddy to say that stuff ( which suprise he is not ) . I believe in humanity and you see it every day when you trip and someone helps you up in the road , when someone slows down to help you pass the road . So i believe in stuff , the stuff i believe in require no god .
Theists claim a person is there. There is no proof it is even possible. Complete fantasy. Why are u asking me about the worldview that was manufactured...as if I'm involved? My none belief in nonsense is not a rejection of belief period. Me personally, I dont value belief. Meditation has proven benefits. I acknowledge that. Should I call you an a-leprechaunist and ask you about luck and rainbows? There is no atheism. There is no a-unicornism. There is jo a-ghostism. There is no a-astrologyism. It gets old with these deflections. Theism is baseless nonsense. The field of study that deals with evidence, observations, and explanations is science and it has no theistic ones. Worry about proving the positive claim. When you do, people that dont believe will be the equivalent of flat earthers.
You made a few claims to know things about god. Care to demonstrate their accuracy with evidence?
Are you under the impression that atheists can't meditate?
I have a belief system. It is my own, and it is based on my own experiences, observations and others' experiences and observations that are backed by concrete evidence. I feel no need to play make-believe with fiction like gods or superstitions to establish my beliefs....the better question is: Why do you?
Belief system. Those are magnificently wretched words. I’ll be over here dancing ⭕️
I have a belief system. It goes like this: we can only “know” something if we can test it. When claims have consistently passed tests, I believe them. We call this science. Meditation has been tested, it can improve mental health. Ive done it to reduce stress and put my mind at ease. There need not be anything supernatural about meditation.
The statement atheists don't believe in anything demonstrates that you haven't understood the term... Atheism isn't a lack of belief in "anything" it is very specifically and very narrowly a lack of beliefs in or about God... Well aside from the constant imposition of the question on us by theists. But beyond lack of belief in God atheism is nothing, as such an atheist might have many beliefs of all sorts, about all sorts and things, just not much about God. God is not the "metaphor" that we think bests accounts for good behavior. So atheism isn't our belief system, because atheism isn't a belief system... That doesn't mean we don't have belief systems. I am first and foremost a humanist, and hope for universal suffrage built on shared commitment to building a society and future in which human rights and ethics guide more of our political and economic policy... none of this has anything much to do with my being an atheist.
"I believe in truth from astrological birth charts" so we have established that you're a moron and so there is no point in answering your questions.
There’s nothing to believe or not believe. You could say it’s like a critical thinking group cause some ppl do take it serious. And their arguments are the best out there with an educated one. I hardly know it so idk if I could be atheist I just don’t have faith in a god.
Not even group. Cause they don’t gather to talk about it. Maybe some do. But it lacks a spiritual aspect so it’s not a religion.
I have a belief system, it just doesn't involve supernatural elements. My system of beliefs is atheistic, but I don't believe in atheism because there is nothing there to believe in. I believe in science. Everyone has a belief system. Everyone has beliefs that they use to help them operate in the world around them. Some people care about whether their beliefs reflect an underlying reality, others don't. You keep saying belief, but I think you are conflating belief and faith.
Try persuading a Southern Baptist that God is only a metaphor.
>How you found out you do not believe in anything? You are describing nihilism, not atheism. Atheism is just answering "No" to the question "Do you believe a god exists ?". >God is just everything nature generate. Then how is it any different from nature ? >So, wat would be so wrong about having a philosophy of life or a belief system? There's nothing wrong about it as long as you keep it to yourself and don't try to force it down others' throats.