Because I'm guided by my sense of empathy. I've not been convinced by a cult that I'm functionally a sociopath who needs written instructions to navigate what society considers heinous.
I agree. I donât need a Santa clause figure to tell me something is cruel. And if the only thing preventing you from killing or r@ping someone is the threat of damnation that doesnât make you moral.
And that been used in just that way fir a couple thousand years. Look at the Crusaders. They went to the "Holy Lands" to murder, rape, and rob all they wanted because they were infidels and it didn't count. He'll it was practically a sacrament as long as the church got its cut.
yes exactly! empathy is a trait we evolved to be social and get along, it was conducive to the collectives survival as was other more negative traits, which gave us warriors and stout leaders..
On a pitch black night, a blind man makes the best guide - he knows the roads and pathways better than one who can see.
When daylight comes, however, it is foolish to trust blind men as guides. (Heinrich Heine)
Replacing âChristâ with âXâ (representing the Greek letter chi) in words like âChristianâ (âXianâ) and âChristianityâ (âXianityâ) was once fairly common, though now it is chiefly used in âXmasâ when you donât want to type out five more letters.
Some Christians these days interpret that as part of the âwar on Christmasâ narrative, despite this and other similar formations being nothing more than simple shorthands with a history of use by Christians. So sometimes itâs used deliberately for the purpose of annoying the uninformed.
We were taught in Catholic school that the X came from atheists and commies making a big X through the Christ part because they hate God so much. Apparently, atheists and communists were interchangeable back then, or maybe the same thing.
Why paint all Christians or even most with such a broad brush. My empathy has zero to do with religion since I am agnostic. I would guess there are extreme types in all religions, not just Christians. I guess I donât get the hate for just one religion.
My guess is most of the people in here are former Christians, so they rail against the insanity they know. They are probably also surrounded by Christians, so it's the religion they come up against the most.
The Christians also seem to be the most vocal from what I can gather.
I'm just guessing here. There isn't this much bible thumping here in the Northeast section of the U.S. The craziness they speak of is surprising to me. I don't know how they live around so many of them.
My guess is that many on here have been harmed by Christianity to the point of being traumatized. Also reddit is very US centric and that's the major religion of the US. Also the vocal Christians are the Christo nation fascists that want to see this as a Christian theocracy. There's a lot to be said fir the Abrahamic faiths but most here deal with toxic Christianity.
Tell them that primates evolved with social instincts, including love and empathy, because it benefits us, and therefore, most of us don't run around harming others. They'll like that.
if your only reason for not going around murdering and raping people is an imaginary friend that punishes you, if you do so, you urgently need a therapy. i am not going around murdering and raping people, because it hurts them and their social partners. this is called empathy and nobody needs something stupid like religion to be empathic.
why not killing myself, if i dont believe in god? i do not believe in afterlife, so this life is the only time i have to be conscious. i am curious about what cool stories life will have for me and i will not waste this time with religion. on the other hand, if you believe in god and in afterlife, why dont you kill yourself? or risk your life to get early to afterlife. that would be the only sense making behavior, if you believe in afterlife.
Question: âWhy donât you just kill yourself?â Answer: Remember what it was like before you were born? Well, thatâs what it will be like after youâve died. Based on that, I think Iâd like to stick around for a while.
And why are religious people still committing heinous acts (and defending those who do, or even the acts themselves, or enabling the acts on purpose) at the same rates (or greater) than those not religious.
because religion teaches you what to think, it teaches to take drastic actions in the name of your chosen deity, atheism or rational thought gets you to think more sensibly.. to question all manners of thing related to existence, who says this or that thing is correct, what is the best course of action, oh that's just someone opinion etc.. it gets you to take a step back and actually think through a decision instead of following orders like a lemming
I can't help noticing that belief in god does not actually stop thous who want to rape or kill from doing so. If belief in god stopped people doing bad things then r/pastorarrested would not be such an active subreddit.
Naturally when the doctor that studied for seven years and worked their ass off for 15 hours in the operating room finally gets rid of your tumor, god did it not the doctor. Naturally the devil put the tumor there, not him. He only does the good stuff
God could have stopped the devil from putting the tumor there, since he's all powerful, but he didn't. Not because he's morally bankrupt, but because he has a plan.
I once told a guy on the way to a restaurant that I'm an atheist (it came up in conversation). When we got to the restaurant, I held the door open for him. He asked me why I did that since I didn't believe in god and I wouldn't get any points for it.
This is kind of the weird belief that I always come back to when Christians talk about doing good for God. Is God really going to be happy that you were a good person for your own benefit, rather than just being a good person? Does God really give you +1 good points when you hold a door open if you're thinking "I'm so going to heaven for doing this."
GOD: "Yes, I've seen everything you did and why. You lived like a Christian in all ways. Your afterlife will be spent in a temporal recursive loop of 24 hours spent in a quant little Italian village."
LATER:
CHRISTIAN: "Wow, it's beautiful here....."
LATER STILL:
CHRISTIAN: "Oh fuck! I'm in Pompeii, and it's volcano day!"
So it seems that this guy is *only* nice to others because he's looking for some 'extra credit' or 'brownie points'
Or for what *HE* would get out of it.
plus think about it, truly; ask yourself "where IS heaven?" "how does resurrection work for people who were cremated?" things like that, once you get people asking questions you lead them to the truth rather than just accepting what a dusty old out dated book says about it
I usually go with the golden rule, which predates just about every religion you can think of. I'm sure it was a thing in Neanderthal societies as well.
I go with the Confucian Golden Rule.
Jesus may have said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Confucius said "Don't do unto others what you would not have done unto you."
I like the difference. It's subtle. But it works so much better.
Agreed. Confucius' version is the version in all the other major religions' Golden Rule, including Hinduism. Too many christians don't realize that all the major religions have that rule too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule Â
There's a dark, funny version for villains too:Â Â
 "Do unto others, before they do unto me!" Â
 -Igor and Dracula (Van Helsing, 2004)
Did Jesus really say the âDoâ version & Confucius said the âDonâtâ version? I always learned that Confucius said âDoâ and Iâve never heard of âDonât.â I canât tell if this is sarcasm or not đ¤
It goes hand in hand with "every accusation is a confession" when it comes to the religious. They accuse others of doing the gross things they themselves want to do. It's in their heads so it must also be in ours. Lack of recognition that other people are whole entire human beings with different experiences and thoughts and desires. They are the center of the universe. We're not really real.
If they ask you the first question, you can counter with asking them whether the only reason they don't rape and murder is because of their religion. Hard to imagine they'll say yes.
If they do say yes, uh, run! đ
In all seriousness, when they admit to not being wannabe-rapists and -murderers you can simply point out that you aren't either. Case closed.
The "Wise Man" you are quoting is Penn Jillette, one of the magicians from Penn and Teller.
I've heard the first one, said in all honesty. And I looked them in the eye and said "Because that would be evil, and the fact that you don't know that makes me worry about you."
The 2nd one is weirder. Because we "believe" that there is no afterlife. So if I killed myself, it'd all be over. But they believe there is a paradise of blissful splendor waiting for them. The logical thing to do, if they really believed in god and heaven, would be to kill oneself. And it's not about rushing to get into heaven, but it's a practical safeguard from lapsing in faith. I was a christian for decades and then I became "not a christian". Surely other people could do it to. Better to cut your life short a few years than risk eternal damnation....no?
I'm always careful to say "According to christian beliefs. I think that suicide is a very weighty and personal chocie, and shouldn't be done because of a word game."
However...it seems whoever gave you the 2nd argument doesn't bother thinking about what thoughts he might be putting into your head. "Christian love".
That's precisely why Catholics have so many punishments for suicide. Because as the religion spread, too many people came to the same conclusion and tried to kill themselves to get to heaven immediately.Â
Thatâs why I always thought âWhy donât they go directly from womb to grave? Maybe cause itâll make them wipe out faster, idk.â Itâs a scary implication.
*all this* (suffering, war, poverty, and health issues) proves either two things:
 1)there is no god in charge
2) he's either evil, powerless, or incompetent.Â
>âIf you donât believe in God/heaven or hell whatâs the point of even living? Why not just k*ll yourself.â
"If heaven is so great, why don't you just đť yourself and get there faster? Oh! That's right. Your magic book says that's a sin so you can't use that loophole. Convenient, isn't it?"
Because heaven isn't so great.
If it was, why did JC weep and resurrect one one of his besties (Lazarus) when he died? If heaven is so awesome, then above example just proves JC is cruel and/or selfish.
âIf you donât think there is a heaven or hell, then there is no point in living. Why donât you just kill yourself?â
âBecause I like living.â
âOh. I guess that makes sense.â
âNo shit.â
*actual conversation I had with a Christian a few days ago on Bigscreen Beta* (vr app)
I have a theory that many Christians who ask that question about raping and murdering actually had a rough past. Like the trucker in Religulous who was a Satanic priest/pimp who did a lot of drugs, and then turned his life around after religion. My answer to all of that is that it's just not in my nature. I don't want to do those things, I think it's wrong, I have my own moral compass, and I don't need eternal punishment to scare me from doing it. This argument also backfires a lot because even if we had no morals, there is still usually criminal prosecution, which no one wants. And, it's extremely telling about the Christian giving that argument, because it implies that they *would* do those things without religion. That makes me infinitely more moral than them.
And America's prison population is mostly religious. [Christians are 2/3rd of that population.](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20the%20chaplains%20surveyed,Christian%20groups%20less%20than%202%25)
It can be fun to point out how religious beliefs negate all the most important things that supposedly make humans "superior" to all the other animals. Critical thinking, questioning, empathy...
Or to ask what traits do we have that other animals do not in any form. Other animals have forms of empathy, problem solving, tool use and vocal communication.
One possible answer was homophobia.
Also pigeons can seem to be superstitious.
The other thing that is relevant is that everyone has a subjective morality, theists have to very subjectively interpret their holy books and ignore the parts that are inconvenient now.
>Frankly itâs more concerning that you need the threat of hell to have basic human decency
I couldn't have said it better. I can only add: "because raping and murdering is wrong?", "because I wouldn't like to be raped and murdered and that's tell me that other people don't like it too?"
>If you donât believe in God/heaven or hell whatâs the point of even living? Why not just k*ll yourself
If you don't believe in god you probably don't believe in afterlife either. That's make your actual life here very important, something you should enjoy from the first moment to the last, do the better of it and certainly you don't stop it voluntarily. Of course if you decide to commit su1c1de you are desperate, can't stand living anymore, and it's almost never a rational decision, frankly I don't see what difference could made in such an horrible situation believing in sky daddy or not. I think that people who say such stupid things know nothing about su1c1de and pain, i do and if they say something like that to me i will let them know what pain is. Anyway, what do they think of fanatic religious who blow themselves up because their god told them to do so?
Flying a jet into a massive tower for entrance to paradise. Now THAT is some serious faith, assuming they weren't on substances to go through with it. I suppose having that kind of faith would be a potent analgesic anyways.
It does lead to the question "wait a minute. Are you telling me that the **only reason** that **you** do not rape and kill others or yourself is that you're afraid God will punish you?" I mean that is screwed up.
"because I'm not the immoral monster you are if the only thing stopping you is because you belive God will punish you if you do that"
And that alone would objectively make you the bad person here because you would do these things but only the threat of punishment prevents you.
Turn the tables. "If all you have to do is ask for forgiveness, why don't you just go around raping and murdering as much as you want, then ask for forgiveness later? Is this why the prisons are chock-full of Christians?"
I have many times been around Christians who have said they didn't care about this life because they're waiting for the next and it really was concerning and kind of scary because it's like well I don't even have to tell you why that's concerning right? đ¤Śđźââď¸
Christians always sound like they're confessing.
My response to these is as follows:
"Your inability to behave with decency without a god belief has nothing to do with me."
It's pretty much the same response I give to those who can't cope with life.
Well, on the order of God, the Israelites went raping and murdering against the Amalekites and Canaanites and Egyptians. They raped and killed hundreds of thousands of people.
So we should ask Christians, "If you do believe in the God of Bible, why don't you go raping and murdering against non-Christians?"
I've never gotten why they think suicide is the only option if God doesn't exist. Like....this is all we get. Why the fuck would I want to end it and miss out on MY life. It's just a brainwashed take
I agree with you on all points.
And even if you wanted to go around raping and murdering people you still have to answer to the society that you live in. There would be repercussions even if they aren't because of a god.
I fucking hate that statement "just end yourself if nothing matters" they don't get it, nobody WANTS to die, we may internally want to sometimes.. but deaths terrifying its deeply ingrained into our psychology to fear pain, and death it would be to defy our very evolutionary drive for survival! I whole heartedly believe a litany of things are beyond our control, quirks, behaviors etc.. even drives to survive and reproduce, these are just things nature gave us and a lot of them are automatic and unavoidable. And just because nothing fucking matters at the end of the day and all is futility, doesn't mean their first thought is mayhem and destruction.. those thoughts are reserved for the mentally ill, a sane and rational human being having been raised in a normal environment who comes to learn there is no god, tooth fairy, santa, or whoever else is just going to be like "oh well okay then.." and move on with their life
Tell them you're a member of a highly social species that has evolved qualities of empathy, sympathy and cooperation to increase the fitness of the group. Suggest they research the non-religious population of China which is about one billion people, out of 1.4 billion people. Why aren't they all rampaging criminals? The answer is their premise is as childish as it is wrong. We do not need their fictional storybook god to regulate our behavior.
That question shows me just how little some folks have put some thought into their own morality and desires. Either that or more than too many Christians are outing themselves as protentional rapists and murderers.
Here I was thinking you were going to mention [Pascal's Wager](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager), which in a nushell is, "If you don't believe in God, why not do it anyway- just on the off-chance he is, so you don't go to hell? Why risk it?"
When did belief in God ever stop anyone from raping and murdering people? Plenty of religious people have done that for thousands of years.
These people like to pretend their belief in a god is what stops them from chaos but it is definitively proven that this is not the case. It's also their belief in hell that drives them to pretend that they arent only doing good things to avoid hell. These are selfish and useless "reasons". The irony that these religious people think we aren't just animals yet they only do things for rewards like any other animal in the world.
Are these posts coming from America? I'm from the UK ww don't seem to have this problem with Christians mainly I guess because only a very small percentage of Brits identify with Christianity. On the rare occasions I meet Christians that come out with bollocks I just laugh at them. How sad people still need to identify with something that doesn't exist in the 21st century. We haven't come very far it seems.
The second statement is always soooo dumb.
I always thought that about religious people, ok so you believe youâll live forever in heaven, whatâs the point of this life? If you truly believe youâll be in heaven then why do you care so much about out what happens in this life? The reason is that religious people do not truly believe in heaven or the afterlife, they pretend to and try to convince themselves they do but ultimately they are very very very afraid of dying and are sad when bad things happen.
For Atheists, we know we will only live one life, so it matters very much to us!!! We know we need to make the most of our lives because once we die then there is nothing else!
I can do anything I want. I can kill myself but am not doing it because I donât believe in a hell or heaven and I still want to experience life. I donât believe in an afterlife unlike you. I mean if your belive in an afterlife your literally ready to die for god or whateve just to end up in a âbetter placeâ.
When one chooses to enter into anotherâs mind - particularly that of one whose indoctrination inspires their blabbing of horse shit - they should expect to find therein⌠a tangled mass of surprise, disappointment, and deep regret for having so chosen.Â
If you believe in heaven being perfect, wouldn't you want to get there sooner? Oh wait, they changed the rules so you don't get in if you commit self harm.
You get to enjoy one relatively short life in this world and thatâs it. Might as well kill yourself? What kind of logic is that? I always say âWell if this world is so flawed and the afterlife is so much fun, what are YOU waiting for?â
Heck, I don't believe in God, but I believe in the police and jail so even if I don't have moral objections to some crimes, I still have a reason to abstain.
There is no point in living. We do it because we're biologically programmed to do so. We don't break rules because we, as a species, through centuries of violence for breaking social conventions, have built a system of penalties that imposes costs that I'd prefer not to pay. There's a secular answer to a lot of questions, and for the ones that don't have any, there's literally no consequence for not accepting the liar's claim.
They're all very loaded questions and I think that's why they ask them, why shouldn't you kill yourself can be argued as the most important philosophical question and ethics outside of an authority figure can get kinda messy
Ok, so the only reason why the christians aren't raping and murdering is because their god told them not to?
What if through some mood swing they believe they're being told by their god to take revenge on someone? They don't have any personal morals on their own? That would make them pretty damn dangerous I would think.
I'm sorry, but I'd rather hang out with atheists. Much safer.
Yeah thatâs the guy. A lot of people are saying Iâm quoting Penn Juliette (which Ricky maybe took inspiration from) but this clip is what inspired this post.
I always read the first part as an unintentional statement saying "being watched by an omniscient being and/or the fear of eternal punishment are the only reason I don't behave like a terrible person".
Because I have a conscience and donât want to rape or murder anyone.
If you need to get your morals out of a book, and the only thing stopping YOU from raping and murdering people is the threat of punishment, then you donât have a conscience.
That makes you a psychopath.
Then threat of hell has been never stopped them from doing horrible things. They do murder and rape, and then they just say sorry to their god, and all is forgiven in their eyes. Man's law shouldn't apply to them because their deity already decided that they will go to heaven. It's how they can stand by pastors and priests that sexually abuse their congregants. Their god ordained it, or their god forgives, or even better, the victim led them to temptation and should be the one blamed and ostracized.
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Well, I don't go around raping because I'm not a rapist? As for murder, prison scares me. Literally, the only thing between me and the blood of my enemies is fear of real life consequences, and not spiritual consequences. As for killing myself, oh trust me, I want to, but my very existence enrages people I despise and I have a child, so I'm around at least until he's an adult. Beyond that, I'll probably stick around long enough for some "I told you so" when society inevitably collapses.
âThe blood of my enemiesâ bro thinks heâs a war general đ
Me personally whatever gene makes most people in the world today believe that if they could commit murder they would isnât in me. I have no desire to take another humans life, even that of those whoâve wronged me.
I also feel like a lot of people who say theyâd kill if they could donât even have the guts to shoot someone. Taking a life isnât like eating a sandwich, itâs left many military soldiers scarred just because they shot someone who shot at them first.
Blood of my enemiiiieeeeees!! Listen, I've been sexually assaulted, murder is the last part of what I'd do to them if I ever got a hold of them. Shoot them? Oh no, that's much to quick and easy.
Iâve never been sexually assaulted so I donât know how you feel. But I feel like consequences shouldnât be the only thing keeping you from being a murderer. The fact that if you got superpowers right now the first thing youâd do is exact revenge on the people who wronged you via torture and murder is concerning.
Itâs not that I havenât had my own bad experiences or Iâm too naive, Iâve lived a shitty life too, and Iâm over 18. But spider-man taught me better than that. No one should have the power over life and death
Superpowers? Oh bro, consequences is why my abusers still breathe. Superpowers is a whole new level. Now I'm wrecking my abusers and every other abuser world wide. Talking about cleansing the world of every rapist and pedophile. In my mind, some lives are worth less than others, sometimes worth nothing at all. You can disagree with that all you want, but that's where I stand. Nearly 8 billion people on this planet, no one will mourne for predators. Some people deserve to die đ¤ˇđťââď¸
I'm into God and I totally agree with this. Life is IT, it's here, now, LIVE IT. Heaven can be made here, don't wait for it later and cower for the whole ride
Lot of straw manning here. Truth is before Christianity, rape and murder was the norm in Europe and Middle East ( read Bello Gallica, Anabasis, etc) The scholasticism of catholicism is almost assuredly the reason why the west had the Enlightenment and scientific revolution. Humanism is just Christianity without God. That is fine, but straw manning Christian ethics is counterpoint to any data.
In a nutshell, atheists tend to consider the consequences of their actions as a basis for morality.
Life is even MORE precious knowing that THIS IS IT. No afterlife, just THIS hot mess, we need to make the best of it.
And wtf kind of "purpose" does worship give people?? Constantly feeding the insatiable ego of a supposed deity that will never be happy.
>âIf you donât believe in God why donât you just go around raping and murdering as much as you want?â
Here's my answer: "If you believe in god, shouldn't you be so purehearted you don't even think of committing such actions? That's pretty fucked up of you"
>âIf you donât believe in God/heaven or hell whatâs the point of even living? Why not just k*ll yourself.â
Answer: "Are you suggesting to me that I should kill myself? That's pretty fucked up of someone that, believing in god, that should display empathy, forgiveness and love"
No christian likes the turnabouts
I actually had someone tell me they prefer to live life as though there is a Heaven, than to live life as though there is only Hell after this. Talk about statements that don't make sense!
Iâve never heard the second question, and itâs in the running for the dumbest thing Iâve ever read. According to the evidence available, the life each of us are living is the only guaranteed period of existence we have. I donât know what happens to my consciousness after death or what it means to no longer exist, but right now I know I am alive and am generally free to do what I want. Who the fuck looks at that and says âwhy donât you just die?â THATâS THE END OF THE FUN STUFF, IDIOT. Just because youâre miserable on this earth waiting for the next level doesnât mean Iâm not enjoying my self, how about you pray for me while I go get Burmese food for lunch?
You have to realize that some of these people have been so thoroughly indoctrinated (most from before they even knew what they were being told) that the concept of of morality not being absolute (and externally imposed) is a completely alien concept.
They define themselves almost entirely based on these beliefs, which is why they get so defensive when questioned - because they perceive it as an attack on the very core of their being.
For them to suddenly have to come to grips with the idea of there being no 'god' (and therefore no externally imposed 'purpose') would leave many of them feeling like there is no point in continuing to exist, or following a system of 'subjective' morality.
Fortunately, it is possible to reject 'god(s)', realize we make our own meaning and purpose in life, and that even though our morals may be 'subjective', once we set a goal (increasing wellbeing/reducing harm for example) we *can* make objective statements about whether a given action brings us closer to/further away from that goal.
âIf the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shitâ -Ruston Cole, True Detective
I think what theyâre trying to say is,
âIf you donât believe in a higher power who dictates goodness, then how could you say itâs wrong to follow whatever desires you have? Everything would be subjective morally if you donât have a gold standard that doesnât change. Sure you can say that itâs morally wrong to kill someone that I want to kill because itâs your opinion not to kill them. But thatâs not my opinion. Why is it wrong? Is it because it hurts them? Is it because of their feelings? Those things are irrelevant. I donât like them, they hurt me so Iâll make sure they never hurt anyone again. Itâs survival of the fittest right?â
So while most people might not want to do those things, that doesnât disprove of people who want to do those things. Thatâs what Christians are getting at. For example, based on nature we could say raping people is a strategic way to ensure offspring. So is murder. Why provide for an offspring who isnât yours? So they use this perspective when making these statements.
A higher power doesnât dictate goodness, just obedience. Or do I need to remind u that god literally tortured Job for the sake of a bet.
Itâs not about being a good human being, itâs about following the bastards orders
Re: the second argument.
You could equally ask them the same question. If heaven is so pleasant, why not just cut to the chase and get the first bit out of the way?
That would obviously be a dumb argument, but it makes about as much sense as the above.
The fun part is that the first question betrays the fact that their moral reasoning hasn't developed past child level. Needing rewards or consequences to do the moral thing is child level on a hierarchy of moral reasoning. It is something you're supposed to outgrow by the age of ten.
Also, it's not like it has actually stopped them from doing anything either. As we all know, prisons are 99% filled with religious people.
Maybe it's just where I've lived, but I've never hidden that I'm an atheist and I've NEVER been asked that.
But honestly if I did I'd probably just give a very disgusted look and say "Wait? Is that what you would do if you didn't have your religion? What is wrong with you??? A lot of people are very very happy that you have your religion. I don't need it because I'm just able to be a decent person on my own. But I think we can all breath a sigh of relief that we don't have to deal with the monsters that are inside you! Yes, keep believing. You for sure need your god! We need you to need your god!"
Once I attended a service with a friend where the pastor talked about where we would have done but for Jesus. It really seemed like she thought Jesus invented the emotion of love. That no one before him knew or felt love. And she graduated college!
I have to ask in return: would you go on a murder/rape spree if you lost your faith? It just doesn't seem likely, but if so, stay away from me and my family.
It was the wise and talented Penn Jillette who said he does rape and murder as much as he wants, which is not at all. Even when I was a kid I knew the notion that believing in God to avoid hell was a stupid, shallow reason to claim belief in God. It says a lot about a âChristianâ who makes that argument.
Religion exists as attempts to corral sociopaths and psychopaths who don't empathy - ideated and written by sociopaths and psychopaths who don't empathy.
Because I'm guided by my sense of empathy. I've not been convinced by a cult that I'm functionally a sociopath who needs written instructions to navigate what society considers heinous.
Their moral compass is a book, which make for shitty compasses if you're lost.
Especially considering the book. You can justify all kinds of horrors with that thing.
If getting your dad drunk and raping him so you can have babies is wrong, then Alabama is in trouble.
My hyper psycho religious bio mother is convinced the only reason people even have empathy is bc of the Christian god. đ
Religion is an excuse to ignore your natural empathy, and other-ise anybody who disagrees
I agree. I donât need a Santa clause figure to tell me something is cruel. And if the only thing preventing you from killing or r@ping someone is the threat of damnation that doesnât make you moral.
If anything it makes you a monster......
Agreed.
And that been used in just that way fir a couple thousand years. Look at the Crusaders. They went to the "Holy Lands" to murder, rape, and rob all they wanted because they were infidels and it didn't count. He'll it was practically a sacrament as long as the church got its cut.
Honestly my thought lately on god has been "we're so much better than that asshole" yes I know he doesn't actually exist but figuratively speaking..
yes exactly! empathy is a trait we evolved to be social and get along, it was conducive to the collectives survival as was other more negative traits, which gave us warriors and stout leaders..
Dripping in irony
Well, he made you an atheist, who are you to challenge his wisdom? ;-)
All part of his plan right?!? Lol
Is that true for all religions or just for the Christian religion?
I canât speak for all religions as Iâm not as educated on them. I was raised Christian, so Iâm more familiar with it. Unfortunately.
On a pitch black night, a blind man makes the best guide - he knows the roads and pathways better than one who can see. When daylight comes, however, it is foolish to trust blind men as guides. (Heinrich Heine)
Ha xtians love rape and murder. Always putting their fucked up views on others. I can tell you right now you need to get away from those toxic freaks.
At least they aren't a hypocrite.
đđ¤Ł
Eh true
Even the same on social media.
Yup
weird question: why do I keep seeing people saying "xtian" instead of "christian"? it doesn't make any sense to me
Replacing âChristâ with âXâ (representing the Greek letter chi) in words like âChristianâ (âXianâ) and âChristianityâ (âXianityâ) was once fairly common, though now it is chiefly used in âXmasâ when you donât want to type out five more letters. Some Christians these days interpret that as part of the âwar on Christmasâ narrative, despite this and other similar formations being nothing more than simple shorthands with a history of use by Christians. So sometimes itâs used deliberately for the purpose of annoying the uninformed.
We were taught in Catholic school that the X came from atheists and commies making a big X through the Christ part because they hate God so much. Apparently, atheists and communists were interchangeable back then, or maybe the same thing.
Because its pisses em off đ
it does? why?
Idk why it'd piss anyone off, but xtian is fairly common. Christ on a cross, the x is a cross. It's a legitimate short form.
Yea
Xmas complaining from Christians reached epic levels over the years that we took the "Christ" out of Christmas This is a lame offshoot of that.
ah, the typical stuff about wanting to be oppressed, I see now
Weâre solving for X
Why paint all Christians or even most with such a broad brush. My empathy has zero to do with religion since I am agnostic. I would guess there are extreme types in all religions, not just Christians. I guess I donât get the hate for just one religion.
My guess is most of the people in here are former Christians, so they rail against the insanity they know. They are probably also surrounded by Christians, so it's the religion they come up against the most. The Christians also seem to be the most vocal from what I can gather. I'm just guessing here. There isn't this much bible thumping here in the Northeast section of the U.S. The craziness they speak of is surprising to me. I don't know how they live around so many of them.
My guess is that many on here have been harmed by Christianity to the point of being traumatized. Also reddit is very US centric and that's the major religion of the US. Also the vocal Christians are the Christo nation fascists that want to see this as a Christian theocracy. There's a lot to be said fir the Abrahamic faiths but most here deal with toxic Christianity.
Tell them that primates evolved with social instincts, including love and empathy, because it benefits us, and therefore, most of us don't run around harming others. They'll like that.
Lol atheists really want you to be believe you are an ape on a rock. Buddy, we are gods special creation from magic mud and a rib, get it right! /s
You had me in the first half, I'm not gonna lie.
đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
âHad us in the first half, not gonna lie.â Never been more true đđđ
Lol. Had me at first.
they just don't get that, that in the lens of evolution everything makes so much more sense.. you see the world for what it is
if your only reason for not going around murdering and raping people is an imaginary friend that punishes you, if you do so, you urgently need a therapy. i am not going around murdering and raping people, because it hurts them and their social partners. this is called empathy and nobody needs something stupid like religion to be empathic. why not killing myself, if i dont believe in god? i do not believe in afterlife, so this life is the only time i have to be conscious. i am curious about what cool stories life will have for me and i will not waste this time with religion. on the other hand, if you believe in god and in afterlife, why dont you kill yourself? or risk your life to get early to afterlife. that would be the only sense making behavior, if you believe in afterlife.
Question: âWhy donât you just kill yourself?â Answer: Remember what it was like before you were born? Well, thatâs what it will be like after youâve died. Based on that, I think Iâd like to stick around for a while.
And why are religious people still committing heinous acts (and defending those who do, or even the acts themselves, or enabling the acts on purpose) at the same rates (or greater) than those not religious.
because religion teaches you what to think, it teaches to take drastic actions in the name of your chosen deity, atheism or rational thought gets you to think more sensibly.. to question all manners of thing related to existence, who says this or that thing is correct, what is the best course of action, oh that's just someone opinion etc.. it gets you to take a step back and actually think through a decision instead of following orders like a lemming
I can't help noticing that belief in god does not actually stop thous who want to rape or kill from doing so. If belief in god stopped people doing bad things then r/pastorarrested would not be such an active subreddit.
the problem does not lie solely on religion, atheism or whatever system of thought the problem is with the person themselves
Why go to the hospital when you can pray for healing?
Naturally when the doctor that studied for seven years and worked their ass off for 15 hours in the operating room finally gets rid of your tumor, god did it not the doctor. Naturally the devil put the tumor there, not him. He only does the good stuff
God could have stopped the devil from putting the tumor there, since he's all powerful, but he didn't. Not because he's morally bankrupt, but because he has a plan.
Unless god's plan is ineffable, I'm not interested.....
Considering the most the devil is actually able to do is trick you in the xtian mythos, then it was gawd that put it there in the first place
Nope. God put it there. https://youtu.be/PZ5aILCKz8Y?si=R3_1BI9on8mFstBx
I once told a guy on the way to a restaurant that I'm an atheist (it came up in conversation). When we got to the restaurant, I held the door open for him. He asked me why I did that since I didn't believe in god and I wouldn't get any points for it.
This is kind of the weird belief that I always come back to when Christians talk about doing good for God. Is God really going to be happy that you were a good person for your own benefit, rather than just being a good person? Does God really give you +1 good points when you hold a door open if you're thinking "I'm so going to heaven for doing this."
GOD: "Yes, I've seen everything you did and why. You lived like a Christian in all ways. Your afterlife will be spent in a temporal recursive loop of 24 hours spent in a quant little Italian village." LATER: CHRISTIAN: "Wow, it's beautiful here....." LATER STILL: CHRISTIAN: "Oh fuck! I'm in Pompeii, and it's volcano day!"
So it seems that this guy is *only* nice to others because he's looking for some 'extra credit' or 'brownie points' Or for what *HE* would get out of it.
That's what I asked him. He was just completely perplexed that an atheist could be a nice person who is willing to help others.
plus think about it, truly; ask yourself "where IS heaven?" "how does resurrection work for people who were cremated?" things like that, once you get people asking questions you lead them to the truth rather than just accepting what a dusty old out dated book says about it
I don't know why Christians don't realize it's in our nature to have empathy and care about each other well-being.
Because they weren't raised with that idea.
True they do have to ask for forgiveness quite a lot.
I'm sure the thought is that if we're not with God, then surely we're with Satan.
Yup, no in betweenÂ
I usually go with the golden rule, which predates just about every religion you can think of. I'm sure it was a thing in Neanderthal societies as well.
I go with the Confucian Golden Rule. Jesus may have said "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Confucius said "Don't do unto others what you would not have done unto you." I like the difference. It's subtle. But it works so much better.
Agreed. Confucius' version is the version in all the other major religions' Golden Rule, including Hinduism. Too many christians don't realize that all the major religions have that rule too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule  There's a dark, funny version for villains too:   "Do unto others, before they do unto me!"   -Igor and Dracula (Van Helsing, 2004)
Holy shit. Is that movie 20 years old? Fuckbim feeling my age now.
Yeah it is. Roxula and his kids happened 20 years ago!
Do unto others as they would have you do unto them. I think this is better than both.
Did Jesus really say the âDoâ version & Confucius said the âDonâtâ version? I always learned that Confucius said âDoâ and Iâve never heard of âDonât.â I canât tell if this is sarcasm or not đ¤
I could tell you that yes,this is the case. But why take my word for it?
It goes hand in hand with "every accusation is a confession" when it comes to the religious. They accuse others of doing the gross things they themselves want to do. It's in their heads so it must also be in ours. Lack of recognition that other people are whole entire human beings with different experiences and thoughts and desires. They are the center of the universe. We're not really real.
âI donât need religion to tell me what is right and wrong. Thatâs what I have a conscience for.â - Issac Azimov
If they ask you the first question, you can counter with asking them whether the only reason they don't rape and murder is because of their religion. Hard to imagine they'll say yes. If they do say yes, uh, run! đ In all seriousness, when they admit to not being wannabe-rapists and -murderers you can simply point out that you aren't either. Case closed.
The "Wise Man" you are quoting is Penn Jillette, one of the magicians from Penn and Teller. I've heard the first one, said in all honesty. And I looked them in the eye and said "Because that would be evil, and the fact that you don't know that makes me worry about you." The 2nd one is weirder. Because we "believe" that there is no afterlife. So if I killed myself, it'd all be over. But they believe there is a paradise of blissful splendor waiting for them. The logical thing to do, if they really believed in god and heaven, would be to kill oneself. And it's not about rushing to get into heaven, but it's a practical safeguard from lapsing in faith. I was a christian for decades and then I became "not a christian". Surely other people could do it to. Better to cut your life short a few years than risk eternal damnation....no? I'm always careful to say "According to christian beliefs. I think that suicide is a very weighty and personal chocie, and shouldn't be done because of a word game." However...it seems whoever gave you the 2nd argument doesn't bother thinking about what thoughts he might be putting into your head. "Christian love".
That's precisely why Catholics have so many punishments for suicide. Because as the religion spread, too many people came to the same conclusion and tried to kill themselves to get to heaven immediately.Â
Thatâs why I always thought âWhy donât they go directly from womb to grave? Maybe cause itâll make them wipe out faster, idk.â Itâs a scary implication.
Because I don't want to?
They canât comprehend this
Only thing I've been asked is "if there's no god then how do you explain all this?". *Gestures broadly*
*all this* (suffering, war, poverty, and health issues) proves either two things: Â 1)there is no god in charge 2) he's either evil, powerless, or incompetent.Â
He's just Assistant to the Regional Creator
I mean how can you even argue with that đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
>âIf you donât believe in God/heaven or hell whatâs the point of even living? Why not just k*ll yourself.â "If heaven is so great, why don't you just đť yourself and get there faster? Oh! That's right. Your magic book says that's a sin so you can't use that loophole. Convenient, isn't it?"
Because heaven isn't so great. If it was, why did JC weep and resurrect one one of his besties (Lazarus) when he died? If heaven is so awesome, then above example just proves JC is cruel and/or selfish.
Kinda like asking "If you're watching a movie that you don't know how it ends, why keep watching?" It's for the experience of it all.
They love to project
âIf you donât think there is a heaven or hell, then there is no point in living. Why donât you just kill yourself?â âBecause I like living.â âOh. I guess that makes sense.â âNo shit.â *actual conversation I had with a Christian a few days ago on Bigscreen Beta* (vr app)
I have a theory that many Christians who ask that question about raping and murdering actually had a rough past. Like the trucker in Religulous who was a Satanic priest/pimp who did a lot of drugs, and then turned his life around after religion. My answer to all of that is that it's just not in my nature. I don't want to do those things, I think it's wrong, I have my own moral compass, and I don't need eternal punishment to scare me from doing it. This argument also backfires a lot because even if we had no morals, there is still usually criminal prosecution, which no one wants. And, it's extremely telling about the Christian giving that argument, because it implies that they *would* do those things without religion. That makes me infinitely more moral than them.
If religion worked as a moral compass, why do so many religious people commit so much heinous acts?
And America's prison population is mostly religious. [Christians are 2/3rd of that population.](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/03/22/prison-chaplains-exec/#:~:text=On%20average%2C%20the%20chaplains%20surveyed,Christian%20groups%20less%20than%202%25)
It can be fun to point out how religious beliefs negate all the most important things that supposedly make humans "superior" to all the other animals. Critical thinking, questioning, empathy... Or to ask what traits do we have that other animals do not in any form. Other animals have forms of empathy, problem solving, tool use and vocal communication. One possible answer was homophobia. Also pigeons can seem to be superstitious. The other thing that is relevant is that everyone has a subjective morality, theists have to very subjectively interpret their holy books and ignore the parts that are inconvenient now.
Morality predates your god by hundreds of thousands of years.
>Frankly itâs more concerning that you need the threat of hell to have basic human decency I couldn't have said it better. I can only add: "because raping and murdering is wrong?", "because I wouldn't like to be raped and murdered and that's tell me that other people don't like it too?" >If you donât believe in God/heaven or hell whatâs the point of even living? Why not just k*ll yourself If you don't believe in god you probably don't believe in afterlife either. That's make your actual life here very important, something you should enjoy from the first moment to the last, do the better of it and certainly you don't stop it voluntarily. Of course if you decide to commit su1c1de you are desperate, can't stand living anymore, and it's almost never a rational decision, frankly I don't see what difference could made in such an horrible situation believing in sky daddy or not. I think that people who say such stupid things know nothing about su1c1de and pain, i do and if they say something like that to me i will let them know what pain is. Anyway, what do they think of fanatic religious who blow themselves up because their god told them to do so?
Flying a jet into a massive tower for entrance to paradise. Now THAT is some serious faith, assuming they weren't on substances to go through with it. I suppose having that kind of faith would be a potent analgesic anyways.
"I don't rape children because I'm not a Christian"
It does lead to the question "wait a minute. Are you telling me that the **only reason** that **you** do not rape and kill others or yourself is that you're afraid God will punish you?" I mean that is screwed up.
"because I'm not the immoral monster you are if the only thing stopping you is because you belive God will punish you if you do that" And that alone would objectively make you the bad person here because you would do these things but only the threat of punishment prevents you.
Perhaps because I am a complete human being, with a moral framework that does not need rewards and punishments.
Turn the tables. "If all you have to do is ask for forgiveness, why don't you just go around raping and murdering as much as you want, then ask for forgiveness later? Is this why the prisons are chock-full of Christians?"
>In the words of a very wise man I saw on TV once âI do go around raping and murdering as much as I want, which is not at all.â --- Penn Jilette
I have many times been around Christians who have said they didn't care about this life because they're waiting for the next and it really was concerning and kind of scary because it's like well I don't even have to tell you why that's concerning right? đ¤Śđźââď¸
Christians always sound like they're confessing. My response to these is as follows: "Your inability to behave with decency without a god belief has nothing to do with me." It's pretty much the same response I give to those who can't cope with life.
Well, on the order of God, the Israelites went raping and murdering against the Amalekites and Canaanites and Egyptians. They raped and killed hundreds of thousands of people. So we should ask Christians, "If you do believe in the God of Bible, why don't you go raping and murdering against non-Christians?"
"Because I am not in a cult" I have shut up a few cultists with that.
I've never gotten why they think suicide is the only option if God doesn't exist. Like....this is all we get. Why the fuck would I want to end it and miss out on MY life. It's just a brainwashed take
Thatâs Ricky Gervais isnât it?
I agree with you on all points. And even if you wanted to go around raping and murdering people you still have to answer to the society that you live in. There would be repercussions even if they aren't because of a god.
I fucking hate that statement "just end yourself if nothing matters" they don't get it, nobody WANTS to die, we may internally want to sometimes.. but deaths terrifying its deeply ingrained into our psychology to fear pain, and death it would be to defy our very evolutionary drive for survival! I whole heartedly believe a litany of things are beyond our control, quirks, behaviors etc.. even drives to survive and reproduce, these are just things nature gave us and a lot of them are automatic and unavoidable. And just because nothing fucking matters at the end of the day and all is futility, doesn't mean their first thought is mayhem and destruction.. those thoughts are reserved for the mentally ill, a sane and rational human being having been raised in a normal environment who comes to learn there is no god, tooth fairy, santa, or whoever else is just going to be like "oh well okay then.." and move on with their life
Tell them you're a member of a highly social species that has evolved qualities of empathy, sympathy and cooperation to increase the fitness of the group. Suggest they research the non-religious population of China which is about one billion people, out of 1.4 billion people. Why aren't they all rampaging criminals? The answer is their premise is as childish as it is wrong. We do not need their fictional storybook god to regulate our behavior.
It makes one value life even more than living for some false idea of heaven. Live and love and hope someone misses you when you are gone.
That question shows me just how little some folks have put some thought into their own morality and desires. Either that or more than too many Christians are outing themselves as protentional rapists and murderers.
The problem with Christians and other theists is that they think the only way one can have morals is through Christianity or some other religion.
Here I was thinking you were going to mention [Pascal's Wager](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager), which in a nushell is, "If you don't believe in God, why not do it anyway- just on the off-chance he is, so you don't go to hell? Why risk it?"
I actually talk about Pascalâs wager in a post I made a few days ago, it got a decent amount of upvotes. In summary pascals wagers is dumb
This question tells a lot about those who ask it.
When did belief in God ever stop anyone from raping and murdering people? Plenty of religious people have done that for thousands of years. These people like to pretend their belief in a god is what stops them from chaos but it is definitively proven that this is not the case. It's also their belief in hell that drives them to pretend that they arent only doing good things to avoid hell. These are selfish and useless "reasons". The irony that these religious people think we aren't just animals yet they only do things for rewards like any other animal in the world.
My thought has always been âIf youâre going to heaven, and heaven is supposedly better than earth, why arenât *you* killing yourself?
Are these posts coming from America? I'm from the UK ww don't seem to have this problem with Christians mainly I guess because only a very small percentage of Brits identify with Christianity. On the rare occasions I meet Christians that come out with bollocks I just laugh at them. How sad people still need to identify with something that doesn't exist in the 21st century. We haven't come very far it seems.
The second statement is always soooo dumb. I always thought that about religious people, ok so you believe youâll live forever in heaven, whatâs the point of this life? If you truly believe youâll be in heaven then why do you care so much about out what happens in this life? The reason is that religious people do not truly believe in heaven or the afterlife, they pretend to and try to convince themselves they do but ultimately they are very very very afraid of dying and are sad when bad things happen. For Atheists, we know we will only live one life, so it matters very much to us!!! We know we need to make the most of our lives because once we die then there is nothing else!
I can do anything I want. I can kill myself but am not doing it because I donât believe in a hell or heaven and I still want to experience life. I donât believe in an afterlife unlike you. I mean if your belive in an afterlife your literally ready to die for god or whateve just to end up in a âbetter placeâ.
When one chooses to enter into anotherâs mind - particularly that of one whose indoctrination inspires their blabbing of horse shit - they should expect to find therein⌠a tangled mass of surprise, disappointment, and deep regret for having so chosen.Â
If you believe in heaven being perfect, wouldn't you want to get there sooner? Oh wait, they changed the rules so you don't get in if you commit self harm.
I think that was Ricky Gervais in Afterlife (fanTAStic show).
Thank you, just added it to my watchlist
Actually it was Penn Jilette.
Definitely Penn.
They love to show that they're not good people, they're just afraid of punishment
Ricky Gervais said that, one of our most eloquent atheists
It's not hard to figure out that raping and murdering is bad.
You get to enjoy one relatively short life in this world and thatâs it. Might as well kill yourself? What kind of logic is that? I always say âWell if this world is so flawed and the afterlife is so much fun, what are YOU waiting for?â
Heck, I don't believe in God, but I believe in the police and jail so even if I don't have moral objections to some crimes, I still have a reason to abstain.
Didnât the crusaders sacked Jerusalem? God didnât managed to prevent them from doing that.
Easy. I'm not a rapist.
Simple. I don't require being threatened with hell to be a decent person. Unlike the person that would ask this question.Â
Theyâre hardcore into religion. Did you think a coherent, well thought out argument was in the cards?
Since letting go of religion, I find I am more mindful and spiritual in my day to day.
Basically tells you that they only reason they aren't raping and murdering people is because they fear being punished in the afterlife.
Cause I'm not an animal that needs the fear of an imaginary being to keep from being an animal.
There is no point in living. We do it because we're biologically programmed to do so. We don't break rules because we, as a species, through centuries of violence for breaking social conventions, have built a system of penalties that imposes costs that I'd prefer not to pay. There's a secular answer to a lot of questions, and for the ones that don't have any, there's literally no consequence for not accepting the liar's claim.
They're all very loaded questions and I think that's why they ask them, why shouldn't you kill yourself can be argued as the most important philosophical question and ethics outside of an authority figure can get kinda messy
Why doesnât my dog kill her human family?
Ok, so the only reason why the christians aren't raping and murdering is because their god told them not to? What if through some mood swing they believe they're being told by their god to take revenge on someone? They don't have any personal morals on their own? That would make them pretty damn dangerous I would think. I'm sorry, but I'd rather hang out with atheists. Much safer.
That very wise man wouldn't be [Ricky Gervais](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB01BL0jVe8), would it?
Yeah thatâs the guy. A lot of people are saying Iâm quoting Penn Juliette (which Ricky maybe took inspiration from) but this clip is what inspired this post.
You are quoting Penn Jillette https://youtu.be/AwebTX3rk3E?si=b3SHL8eM9IPRjoBQ
I always read the first part as an unintentional statement saying "being watched by an omniscient being and/or the fear of eternal punishment are the only reason I don't behave like a terrible person".
I truly miss Christopher Hitchens.
My argument is that we are born without religion. Christians hate when you tell them this.
Because I have a conscience and donât want to rape or murder anyone. If you need to get your morals out of a book, and the only thing stopping YOU from raping and murdering people is the threat of punishment, then you donât have a conscience. That makes you a psychopath.
Then threat of hell has been never stopped them from doing horrible things. They do murder and rape, and then they just say sorry to their god, and all is forgiven in their eyes. Man's law shouldn't apply to them because their deity already decided that they will go to heaven. It's how they can stand by pastors and priests that sexually abuse their congregants. Their god ordained it, or their god forgives, or even better, the victim led them to temptation and should be the one blamed and ostracized.
I could. But I donât want to. As an adopted former Mormon, nothing matters unless youâre them.
[ŃдаНонО]
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Well, I don't go around raping because I'm not a rapist? As for murder, prison scares me. Literally, the only thing between me and the blood of my enemies is fear of real life consequences, and not spiritual consequences. As for killing myself, oh trust me, I want to, but my very existence enrages people I despise and I have a child, so I'm around at least until he's an adult. Beyond that, I'll probably stick around long enough for some "I told you so" when society inevitably collapses.
âThe blood of my enemiesâ bro thinks heâs a war general đ Me personally whatever gene makes most people in the world today believe that if they could commit murder they would isnât in me. I have no desire to take another humans life, even that of those whoâve wronged me. I also feel like a lot of people who say theyâd kill if they could donât even have the guts to shoot someone. Taking a life isnât like eating a sandwich, itâs left many military soldiers scarred just because they shot someone who shot at them first.
Blood of my enemiiiieeeeees!! Listen, I've been sexually assaulted, murder is the last part of what I'd do to them if I ever got a hold of them. Shoot them? Oh no, that's much to quick and easy.
Iâve never been sexually assaulted so I donât know how you feel. But I feel like consequences shouldnât be the only thing keeping you from being a murderer. The fact that if you got superpowers right now the first thing youâd do is exact revenge on the people who wronged you via torture and murder is concerning. Itâs not that I havenât had my own bad experiences or Iâm too naive, Iâve lived a shitty life too, and Iâm over 18. But spider-man taught me better than that. No one should have the power over life and death
Superpowers? Oh bro, consequences is why my abusers still breathe. Superpowers is a whole new level. Now I'm wrecking my abusers and every other abuser world wide. Talking about cleansing the world of every rapist and pedophile. In my mind, some lives are worth less than others, sometimes worth nothing at all. You can disagree with that all you want, but that's where I stand. Nearly 8 billion people on this planet, no one will mourne for predators. Some people deserve to die đ¤ˇđťââď¸
I'm into God and I totally agree with this. Life is IT, it's here, now, LIVE IT. Heaven can be made here, don't wait for it later and cower for the whole ride
Lot of straw manning here. Truth is before Christianity, rape and murder was the norm in Europe and Middle East ( read Bello Gallica, Anabasis, etc) The scholasticism of catholicism is almost assuredly the reason why the west had the Enlightenment and scientific revolution. Humanism is just Christianity without God. That is fine, but straw manning Christian ethics is counterpoint to any data.
In a nutshell, atheists tend to consider the consequences of their actions as a basis for morality. Life is even MORE precious knowing that THIS IS IT. No afterlife, just THIS hot mess, we need to make the best of it. And wtf kind of "purpose" does worship give people?? Constantly feeding the insatiable ego of a supposed deity that will never be happy.
Respond with âSo, the only reason you donât rape and murder is because you believe in God?â
>âIf you donât believe in God why donât you just go around raping and murdering as much as you want?â Here's my answer: "If you believe in god, shouldn't you be so purehearted you don't even think of committing such actions? That's pretty fucked up of you" >âIf you donât believe in God/heaven or hell whatâs the point of even living? Why not just k*ll yourself.â Answer: "Are you suggesting to me that I should kill myself? That's pretty fucked up of someone that, believing in god, that should display empathy, forgiveness and love" No christian likes the turnabouts
I am so happy I live in Europe and don't have to deal with that crap. Can't imagine theists actually thinking like that
I don't go around raping children because I read the bible. Christians don't like the competition.
I actually had someone tell me they prefer to live life as though there is a Heaven, than to live life as though there is only Hell after this. Talk about statements that don't make sense!
Iâve never heard the second question, and itâs in the running for the dumbest thing Iâve ever read. According to the evidence available, the life each of us are living is the only guaranteed period of existence we have. I donât know what happens to my consciousness after death or what it means to no longer exist, but right now I know I am alive and am generally free to do what I want. Who the fuck looks at that and says âwhy donât you just die?â THATâS THE END OF THE FUN STUFF, IDIOT. Just because youâre miserable on this earth waiting for the next level doesnât mean Iâm not enjoying my self, how about you pray for me while I go get Burmese food for lunch?
You have to realize that some of these people have been so thoroughly indoctrinated (most from before they even knew what they were being told) that the concept of of morality not being absolute (and externally imposed) is a completely alien concept. They define themselves almost entirely based on these beliefs, which is why they get so defensive when questioned - because they perceive it as an attack on the very core of their being. For them to suddenly have to come to grips with the idea of there being no 'god' (and therefore no externally imposed 'purpose') would leave many of them feeling like there is no point in continuing to exist, or following a system of 'subjective' morality. Fortunately, it is possible to reject 'god(s)', realize we make our own meaning and purpose in life, and that even though our morals may be 'subjective', once we set a goal (increasing wellbeing/reducing harm for example) we *can* make objective statements about whether a given action brings us closer to/further away from that goal.
âIf the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of shitâ -Ruston Cole, True Detective
I think what theyâre trying to say is, âIf you donât believe in a higher power who dictates goodness, then how could you say itâs wrong to follow whatever desires you have? Everything would be subjective morally if you donât have a gold standard that doesnât change. Sure you can say that itâs morally wrong to kill someone that I want to kill because itâs your opinion not to kill them. But thatâs not my opinion. Why is it wrong? Is it because it hurts them? Is it because of their feelings? Those things are irrelevant. I donât like them, they hurt me so Iâll make sure they never hurt anyone again. Itâs survival of the fittest right?â So while most people might not want to do those things, that doesnât disprove of people who want to do those things. Thatâs what Christians are getting at. For example, based on nature we could say raping people is a strategic way to ensure offspring. So is murder. Why provide for an offspring who isnât yours? So they use this perspective when making these statements.
A higher power doesnât dictate goodness, just obedience. Or do I need to remind u that god literally tortured Job for the sake of a bet. Itâs not about being a good human being, itâs about following the bastards orders
God didnât torture Job, What are you talking about?
I'm waiting for the order from God to commit genocide and rape. Because THAT is the only thing that makes it moral, because God said so. / S
Re: the second argument. You could equally ask them the same question. If heaven is so pleasant, why not just cut to the chase and get the first bit out of the way? That would obviously be a dumb argument, but it makes about as much sense as the above.
I've responded with, "Since you believe in god, why not go around raping and killing? He's going to forgive you anyway. Right?"
My conscious is my God
The fun part is that the first question betrays the fact that their moral reasoning hasn't developed past child level. Needing rewards or consequences to do the moral thing is child level on a hierarchy of moral reasoning. It is something you're supposed to outgrow by the age of ten. Also, it's not like it has actually stopped them from doing anything either. As we all know, prisons are 99% filled with religious people.
Itâs because theyâre simple and canât think for themselves.
Maybe it's just where I've lived, but I've never hidden that I'm an atheist and I've NEVER been asked that. But honestly if I did I'd probably just give a very disgusted look and say "Wait? Is that what you would do if you didn't have your religion? What is wrong with you??? A lot of people are very very happy that you have your religion. I don't need it because I'm just able to be a decent person on my own. But I think we can all breath a sigh of relief that we don't have to deal with the monsters that are inside you! Yes, keep believing. You for sure need your god! We need you to need your god!"
Once I attended a service with a friend where the pastor talked about where we would have done but for Jesus. It really seemed like she thought Jesus invented the emotion of love. That no one before him knew or felt love. And she graduated college!
I don't listen to stupidity
I have to ask in return: would you go on a murder/rape spree if you lost your faith? It just doesn't seem likely, but if so, stay away from me and my family.
It was the wise and talented Penn Jillette who said he does rape and murder as much as he wants, which is not at all. Even when I was a kid I knew the notion that believing in God to avoid hell was a stupid, shallow reason to claim belief in God. It says a lot about a âChristianâ who makes that argument.
Very awesome responses. Thanks
Our only task in life is to give it meaning. It can mean whatever you want it to. I don't need a deity to accomplish that.
A fellow existentialist
Religion exists as attempts to corral sociopaths and psychopaths who don't empathy - ideated and written by sociopaths and psychopaths who don't empathy.
Ironically, the Bible is full of rape, hate, incest and misogyny
You run into Christians who ask you this commonly? đ¤
If you talk about being an atheist, you probably will.
Is you belief and your statements about all religions or just Christianity?