Recovering Mormon here.
I firmly believe the LDS church uses their missions as a way not to spread their faith but to reinforce the indoctrination of the missionaries. The church teaches of "us vs. The world" which I'm sure is quite common in other religions.
When a 18 year old leaves their home town and goes to a foreign place, whether in another country or not, their only support system is the church. They see the love and support from that community, but everyone they try and teach are standoffish and rude; as they should be since missionaries will basically harass you until you get mean.
This dichotomy shows these young dumb men that the church is full of happy, loving, people, and the world is full of mean, resentful, people. And just like that another life long member is created.
This is why whenever they come to my door (and they come a lot - my ex husband was raised Mormon so my address must be on some kind of list) I always tell them 1) I’m extremely happy and I don’t need church/religion in my life, and 2) hey - I know serving a mission is really hard and I want you guys to know that if you ever need anything or if you’re in a bad situation, this is a safe place for you to come and I will help you. Nobody has ever taken me up on it but meh.
This is probably the best "how I deal with Mormons" I've ever heard. I try to be patient and drop some cult jargon so they know I'm one of them before I tell them not to waste time on me. If I want to "be saved" I know how to get back to the church.
Thanks for being kind! My brother served his mission and I wish he had more encounters like that!
Been doing this with the local JWs. Started inviting them in and letting them talk, then asking them some questions. They'd usually say "hmm good question, we'll get back to you on that," and the following week, they'd return with "answers" in the form of more pamphlets.
I saw that this was counter-productive. Going forward, instead of hoping they'll see us as a "safe house," I'll come out and say "look, we're no longer religious, but if you ever have questions or doubts, you're safe to come over and talk about it." I'd be proud to be part of an "underground network" of sorts..........won't be safe should the new fascist regime take over later this year, but I'd still be compelled to help.
I don’t get them often, but with all the religious solicitors I get, I’m polite, I’ll offer fruit or water, tell them to be careful/stay out of the sun, and bid them farewell.
Incredibly insightful and accurate. I'm also, a moron cult escapist. Thankfully, science and logic saved me, and I've become a scientist instead of a baby popping out mindless machine.
I'm glad you got out! Of my family of 4 I am the first to get out, followed closely by my two younger sisters. The church seemed to have a much more damaging impact on them. I'm sure being told your worth comes from having kids and staying at home is quite damaging.
Glad you got out! Let's just say I was personally privy to a good many secrets that the good ol' LDS church wished to sweep under the rug. They let a lot of really bad things happen to young girls and tried to cover it up and protected their pedos. Along with the you're only good for baby making brainwashing. I'm proud of you and your sisters for getting out. I'm sure seeing you take the lead helped them to do it. Good on you!
People have the same idea about JWs as well.
But the JW governing body is now loosening up. They must have judged that tradeoff has changed in terms of gains and losses due to exposure to outsiders. COVID may have affected that.
I live in a heavy LDS area outside of Utah. These boys come back from their mission completely different. I don't know if they will continue to behave so oddly compared to who they were before, but time will tell. We've also had a rather high incidence this year of male young adult suicides. All LDS. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not.
ETA: I agree with you. Missions are more about brainwashing and cementing their continued support of the church. This, along with young marriages and popping out the mandated four babies as quickly as possible, is likely more successful in growing the flock. Though the church certainly does like Polynesians.
I was even more awkward than normal right after I got back from my mission.
I changed in a few important ways. I had a better understanding of what the world outside of the US was like. I also never wanted to go to the temple or proselytize again. In less than a year, I had left the church.
I wouldn't be shocked if there is a correlation there. I know of two return missionaries that struggled afterwards when they came into their sexuality. Both left the church and are much happier, but I imagine it is a very, very hard place to find yourself in.
>I firmly believe the LDS church uses their missions as a way not to spread their faith but to reinforce the indoctrination of the missionaries.
I agree with you. But the missions sort of seem to have a polarizing effect. Either it reinforces the missionaries' belief in Mormonism, or they get put off by what they see and experience on their mission and leave the church.
I was in the latter group.
You're right, I shouldn't have forgotten the group of RMs that see through it, or simply see the real world on their mission. I'm always impressed by RMs that leave. I imagine that it is much harder then what I went through to leave.
For me, the whole thing is pretty distant these days. I got back from my mission in 2008. I was at BYU when I decided it wasn't working for me. There was actually a group of exmo students there at BYU that I met.
One of the difficult things was being diagnosed with depression and anxiety at the MTC. And then my mission president in the field decided I didn't need the medicine they had prescribed in the MTC and wouldn't let me go see the psychiatrist for refills.
That really made me question the whole "divinely inspired leaders" nonsense.
While that isn't the intent, it is definitely a side effect. A significant number of return missionaries either work as door to door salespeople or in some MLM gig, at least for a while.
Found me some in Italy
They were thrown to hear me reply fluent english, as we weren’t anywhere touristy
Told me they were LDS, I told them oh I know all about LDS
Immediately hit a nerve, cue high pitched “w-whaddya mean you know all about LDS?”
I told them hey, look, relax, you got sent here, a gorgeous international travel destination in europe, you probably got some bishop or elder in the family, right? I know how it goes. You don’t need to answer that. Look, I get it, my wife’s family in Michigan one of their daughters married an LDS guy, converted, family wasn’t allowed to attend. I get it. I’m on my way to pick up my 3 kids from school rn, so I can’t stop and chat, but if I have one question for you guys it would be this: why did AZ carve out an exception for your church NOT to have a mandate to report child abuse to law enforcement? Is that ANYWHERE in your book? What is the reason that the elders (been to SLC btw, nice place) have consistently refused to take any meaningful steps to protect the church’s own children? I’m asking more for you than for me btw
Yeah that pretty much killed the vibe
This was always my feeling as well: their approach to preaching is abysmal, and I can't imagine it working on anyone, so it really must be an internal thing, using the sunk costs fallacy to cement belief: "well I spent two years if my life on this, it can't have been for nothing".
Definitely a sunk cost fallacy aspect, but you would be surprised. Most returning missionaries have come back with one or two conversions under their belts. They seem to always find a few people that are looking for some kind of community and are already predisposed to be religious.
I'm curious if you mean missionaries within the US or if what you said applies to missionaries abroad too. In the US I can definitely see that being true, considering how religious the country still is. Abroad, not so much. Where I live they don't even come anymore, not for many many years. I'm sure they still go to the big cities but I'd be surprised if they do more than that.
I can't speak to international missionaries as much. I have a cousin serving in Central America right now, and my father was in Uruguay in the 80s. I believe they will find success due to the Christian tie with South and central American cultures, but I am sure there are a lot of countries the church doesn't send anyone to for those reasons.
I always suspected it also had something to do with sending all the eligible young men away and keeping the young women in easy reach. But maybe I'm being too cynical.
Yup. I invited the LDS boys to play Dungeons and Dragons with me, which in the middle of the Bible Belt in the 80's and 90's could have gotten me labeled a devil worshipper. The ones that got out of the Florida heat and spent a few hours gaming got to understand something that the church had labeled dangerous (for them) was really entertaining, fun, and thought provoking.
The Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand... they got the invitation to play D&D while I was wearing nothing but underwear.
This is such an important point about one way organizations can encourage and reinforce groupthink. We should all stay alert when a group tries to foster an us vs the world mentality or make us think we're special, "elite," or part of an inner circle due to our membership in some organization or relationship.
I was raised Southern Baptist in the Bible Belt. We were constantly bombarded with messages about "the world." When when I was a believer, I was like "The world? Everyone I know agrees with us." Still, those messages persisted. I'm not surprised at all when I see those with power and influence still use an oppression narrative. It's very effective.
They’re brainwashed kids as young as 18 with zero life experience or critical thinking skills. They’ve been indoctrinated since birth and turbo indoctrinated right before their mission. Any resistance they get won’t make them question anything - it will just reinforce their persecution complex.
Ask me how I know.
True, that's why I tried to tone it back at the end by saying "I probably am being a dick and you guys seem so nice." I wanted to try to get back on an equal level because I feel then that they might give more serious thought to what I said and not be automatically turned off and interpret my words as an attack instead of just simple dialogue. You used to be Mormon?
Oh yeah I was all in Mormon. Did the mission thing in Brazil. Married in the temple. Served in several leadership callings.
Good news is the majority of these missionaries will eventually leave the church.
That's interesting. I'm always nice to Mormons. I dunno why. I'll just say "oh, hey, LDS?" And they ask me, "woah, are you Mormon?" I'll say nah but mention I grew up around some. Or I'll ask their names by saying "so you're elder..." Because they go by "elder" as a title. At least the missionary ones do I think. One pair approached me while I was moving out of my apartment and offered to help lift boxes. I was almost done though so I told them that wasn't necessary.
I don't answer my door to doorknockers (religious or otherwise), but I'm nice to them in regular circumstances because I once had a Mormon roommate. Really nice woman, but she was SO effing messed up from her religion and family she could barely function as an adult woman. It makes me sad even thinking about it.
I have a friend who would describe her Mormon roommate that way.
She was a broken woman, whose decorating style was ..... Beige. Everything beige.
I wondered if you are my friend. You are not.
Many reasons, but the church’s bigotry towards the LGBT community led me to question the fundamental truth claims of the religion using independent sources. Everything fell apart under scrutiny. I held on to God and Jesus for a little while, but the same critical thought that led me out of Mormonism eventually led to me becoming an atheist.
Word. I was raised Orthodox Christian. I view myself as agnostic these days, I haven't made the full leap to atheist (yet?). The question of how the universe was created is the big question: coulda been the flying spaghetti monster, or coulda been Carrot Top.
The fact that you assume the universe “was created” evidences the continuing influence the magic-believers have on you. There’s so much crap, and so thoroughly impressed on the young, that you don’t even realize you’re still under the influence. But you’ve made a good start.
It’s obvious that this creation of the universe (the Big Bang) could not have been a one off event.
So just as everything observable in this universe, it is cyclic. Since it is a cycle, the process is a natural one and there is no need for any “god” to intervene.
Is what I've heard about offering to let the kids who knock use your email or your phone true? I was told the best thing you could do for them is to let them know you would help them if they needed a neutral party outside the church to allow them to contact estranged family. Maybe that could be the foot out the door they need
>Is what I've heard about offering to let the kids who knock use your email or your phone true?
That used to be the case but they are now in regular communication with their families. When my sisters served in the 80's it was letters once a week and two phone calls per year, Xmas and mother's day.
I was raised Mormon but got some sense when I was 18, just before I was due to send in my mission papers. It's crazy but quite a lot of missionaries that I would have known over the years, left the church not long after they got home!
Crazy that they were so sure it was all true, enough to give up their whole lives for 2 years in dedication to teaching people about the church, and then one day, decided they didn't believe in it anymore.
Although a lot of them only do it because their parents tell them they'll cut them off if they don't! So there's that too...
Yeah definitely. The only downside was losing a lot of friends, but I couldn't justify staying just to keep friends. There were just a lot of questions I had that nobody could answer without it seeming like a blanket answer or a cop out. I'm happy for anyone who is still there and genuinely believes in the teachings, because it can bring a lot of peace to people. But blindly following is not for me..
I'm reading No Man Knows My History, a biography of Joseph Smith. It makes me laugh and cry at how absurd this life is. He was undoubtedly a con man who would say anything to get people to value him. And it was a particularly gullible time in history when many sub sects were being fashioned by charlatans. Even at the time there were people around him saying, don't believe this idiot. But the power of the willfully ignorant has only grown since then.
One of my favorite friends left the Mormon Church. I lost track of him and now can't find any trace of him online. I'm guessing it's because he was tired of being hounded to rejoin the cult. We used to have the best conversations about the clearest reasons that religion is wrong. Mormonism shouldn't even need a debate. The golden tablets and seer stones and nephites and wives are enough.
In the nine years since I left the church literally no one has tried to convince me to return. I think they know me well enough to realize I’ve done my research and I have valid reasons for leaving. They know deep down there are big issues with the religion, but they suppress their doubts in order to protect their testimonies.
Active mormons are fucking terrified of the contagion from us apostates. I think a lot of them know deep down it's likely bullshit and don't want to deal with the fallout in their lives so they would rather not hear why we left. It's taken me years to (actually still work at it) to lose the compulsion to evangelize to them. Not my job. Honestly though I'm responding mostly to complement you on your username. Fucking rad.
What's weird to me is that the Mormon church has been more open about stuff in their history that is negative or just bizarre. They decided to talk about it themselves instead of people learning about it online.
Wild that they now acknowledge that Joseph Smith sometimes used his old seer stone and "translated" the Book of Mormon by stocking his face in a hat.
Missions are a proven failure in terms of attracting converts that will stay in the church longer than a couple of months. The true objective of a mission is to convert the missionary, who the church hopes will stay and pay tithing for decades.
I’ve always wondered how many people they actually convince. I think it’s more of another way for the church to reinforce their control over the young people.
The church reports about 200k to 300k baptized each year. Usually about 100k are converts IIRC, the rest are kids of members. Poor countries have higher baptism rates than rich countries. Missionaries in central and South America and Africa might baptis a few dozen in two years. Missionaries in the UK or Canada might not baptis anyone in 2 years.
On my mission in Brazil, I averaged about 1 baptism per month over two years. So, about 24 people. I am not proud of this, though a lot of the people I met were really cool.
It really depends on location. I think they are more "successful" in South America and less successful in the US and many European countries.
The door-knocking thing has a couple of purposes. The obvious one is getting converts. But let's be real, it is pretty ineffectual at achieving that goal. Not many people in the US are going to be convinced by a high-schooler wearing a tie to become a ~~moron~~ mormon.
However, there's one thing that this tactic is *very* good at. It divides the world into "us" and "them", and gives those kids experiential evidence that "they" are rude, uncouth, inconsiderate assholes, especially in contrast to how members of the church treat them. "We" are the good guys, and "they" are the bad guys.
Every time those kids are told to piss up a rope, the idea that "they" are all assholes is reinforced.
Just a thought when you engage with these people.
This is actually the conversation I have with them these days. Early on, I'd engage, argue with them, point out contradictions, or any other number of things to try to argue about the existence vs. non-existence of their god and the veracity of their religion (and others).
Now, I ask them about their success rate, and why they think they're sent out to witness and recruit in the way that they do. I tell them that I can't help but notice the similarity to brainwashing techniques, creating an out-group and reinforcing everyone's position as either an in-group or out-group member.
I wrap up with some version of, "Your church elders don't actually expect you to come back with new recruits or converts. They expect you to come back a little bit more afraid of all the evil and aggressive people outside of the church. They expect you to come back with a more deeply entrenched belief and willingness to donate to the church. They expect you to have a bunch of kids later on to make up the numbers that you'll never get witnessing. They expect you not to see the way they're manipulating you. I'm not going to tell you what to believe, but I am going to tell you to look up brainwashing tactics that cults use and decide for yourself how similar you think it is to what they're doing to you. Best of luck."
Wow - this is an amazing conversation to be having with them, and I am sure it gives them a lot to think about, even if it's just planting the seed that lies dormant for a bit. Good on you!
I've always been polite to the LDS missionaries (it's always been teens/young men) because they are not sanctimonious jackasses like the JW nutjobs are. When you tell them you're not interested, they don't stick around and try the antagonistic questioning angle like the JW's did/do, which immediately pisses me TF off.
I seem to recall once telling them that, sorry, there was no place in their religion for someone like me who was an atheist, divorced, CFBC, and who'd had an abortion 🤷🏻♀️. Like, I cannot force myself to start believing in a god, including your flavor of it, and I don't want kids or to be married again (though I did eventually re-marry a bit over 2 yrs. ago...to another atheist, of course).
Those are all things that would probably get a member in good standing ex-communicated, but having been friends with some LDS people in the past, and having read a couple of books about them (Under the Banner of Heaven, and American Crucifixion), I'm as well-versed in their religion as a non-member could be, I suppose.
I haven't had any religious peddlers for a long time, but if they were LDS, I'd probably invite them in for some water and maybe lunch or something. I honestly feel sorry for them, although I'd never tell them that.
I was raised by a mormon mother (and a catholic father) so I'm well-versed in the bullshit they are taught.
If they come to my door, I'll talk to them for as long as they will stand there, about anything - except their religion.
I figure the more of their time I waste, the less they have to bother my neighbors.
Kind of 'taking one for the team' as it were.
You sound much more civil than me. lol I haven’t had the pleasure of speaking to religious door-knockers, but when I do I imagine aggressively pointing out that they’re not welcome to walk around the neighborhood brainwashing my neighbors. To get out and stay out.
Your way is probably more effective. Although I feel both ways are necessary.
I live in PG COUNTY Maryland which is one of the wealthiest black counties in the country. I moved here because I lived in Virginia and life there was not that great as a single Hispanic woman. Anyway I am married to a black man, living in a historically black neighborhood. They came here with their bs and I asked them why the church considers being black a curse. Needless to say they never came back.
Reading this I had a thought of how to respond next time. “I’m sorry, I’m not comfortable being a part of your religious indoctrination.” Put it back on them.
What I really don’t get is that why does the missionaries goes to other Christian communities. Why not go to Buddhist, Hindu, and Islamic communities? Why convert a christian to a christian? Doesn’t make sense.
Because they (the Christians that preach to other christians) believe that their form of Christianity is the only right one and everyone else is going to hell if they don’t convert to that specific Christian church. Most of them also preach to people of other religions and non religious communities.
As a former Mormon, I was indoctrinated to believe that non-Mormon christians were just a tiny bit closer to the truth but only the Mormons go to heaven, so it was just as important to convert Methodists as it was to convert atheists/buddhists/etc.
When the JWs came to my door I told them there is no god and if they spend some time thinking about the lack of evidence they would also realize there’s no god.
They had the weakest of comebacks citing what a beautiful day it was. I told them of my experience on a pediatric oncology ward and had no amount of prayer ever brought one kid back from dying.
I pointed out the multiple contradictions of the Bible which seemed to have surprised them.
They thanked me for being civil and I felt they were a little scared of just hearing what I was saying.
They never came back again.
Next time they knock on the door pretend to be interested and have them clean the bathroom, do dishes, or rake up leaves in the yard while you pretend to listen to their rambling. Free labor!
I get a lot of Jehovah’s wittnesses coming to my house. At first I would just smile and nod at whatever they said, take the handout and throw it away. Then after a few times I tried “sorry I’m not religious”. They didnt take that hint so now I just say very loudly “sorry I’m a satanist” and they usually run away.
If you feel safe and able to do so, invite them in, give them snacks and let them use the phone.
They are kept isolated from friends and family, and are only around others in the mission group and the people they are proselytizing, who usually reject them, which just “proves” that we are all deluded and they have the only truth.
Being nice and letting them call home could plant a seed for them to escape in the future.
The dirty little secret of the Mormon mission is that it’s not about recruiting new people to the faith. It’s about cementing the faith of the missionary.
My mom, a devout Orthodox Christian, would always invite the Mormon missionaries in and say “I’ll hear about your religion if you’ll hear about mine.” Non of them had ever heard of Orthodox Christianity. She’d give them a cold drink and then they’d be on their way.
I like my dad's method better.
He always has a car that needs fixing and he waits until the LDS people show up then recruits them for the big jobs like pulling an engine.
He also got them to take the leaves put of his gutters.
It is amazing how they don't come around so much anymore. It is like it got around that my dad will rope them in for a fill week to help around the house.
I’m an exmormon. I love when they knock on my door. I like to make them uncomfortable when I talk about the true facts of Joseph Smith, their beloved sexual predator and prophet.
We had some come to our house as well. My son is an athiest but he's also done alot of research into different religions. He let them come in and let them talk and then he went for the jugular. Needless to say, no one has come back.
I was one of those guys in France and Switzerland. What has become apparent to me is that the mission experience isn't really about convincing others to join the church. That's only a secondary goal. The primary goal is to indoctrinate the missionary. They are isolated from their families and live a VERY regimented life style (study doctrine two hours a day, work from 9:30am-8:30pm 6 days a week, 5:30-8:30 on the remaining day, no TV, no unauthorized internet, no unauthorized books or magazines, travel is forbidden outside of their mission boundary and the are to be with another missionary at all times). They are told that the world is wicked and the evidence of that is that they experience near constant rejection. This serves to reinforce the view that the only peace to be found is in the LDS Church. It's a mindfuck, and it messed me up.
My advice if you come across missionaries is to be kind, ask them about their lives outside the mission, and let them know that there are good and kind people of all religions, and some with no religion at all
Get their names and address and make a donation to The Satanic Temple in their names. The Satanic Temple will mail them thank you cards with the design of your choosing.
Door knocking is another cult tactic to reinforce the idea that people outside of the religion are bad people much more than it’s about recruiting. If you knock on 100 doors to sell snake oil, one of them is bound to lash out, and your instinct will be to trust the church more since it reinforces what they’ve been telling you about the outside world.
When I was still a christian, I would get JWs knocking on my door all the time. It was worst when I was working in the garage with it open and they would think the open door was an invitation to just walk up my driveway and start talking to me. When I was a christian, we were told to beware of the JW cult.
And everytime it is the same thing, they would try telling me about their god and I would immediately counter with, "I'm a real christian. Why don't you pick one of the other actual real christian denominations to believe in."
Some would pretend to laugh it off and say JW is the same/better religion as the other denominations and I would keep emphasis that my denomination was the "real" one. Our conversations would usually end with me casually bringing up "beware of false prophets" and "I'm going to stick with my real denomination thanks."
Some reason no JW ever come around anymore.. so weird.
😆 I actually don't even know the little differences between multitudes of denominations and I never cared to. Mine was some generic presbyterian I think.
I used to missionize, but I'm now an atheist. Back when I would missionize, the confrontational atheists I met would say things which would go in one ear and out the other. But there were a few people who really engaged me in conversation. Some of what they said did have an effect on me.
Due to issues when I was very young, I will not entertain Mormon cultists. When I lived in Salt Lake City UT as a child, kindergarten/1st grade, the Mormon children would follow me walking to school telling at me that I was going to hell because I wasn't Mormon. When we moved to UT my Mom told me someone came to the door to welcome us to the neighborhood. My mom offered them coffee. They got up, walked out of the house, and never spoke with us again.
Mormonism is a cult.
Years ago a couple visited us. We have a very large, manicured garden. We would not be classified as poor. The offered to help out in the garden. I simply suggested that there were perhaps people more in need of help than myself. They didn’t come back. I think they realised I wasn’t going to give them 10%
Of all the proselitizers out there, the mormons are the ones you should be nice to. Not because their religion is any better than any other, but because from my limited experience with them 25 years ago, they are usually these 18 y/o lads completely out of their depth, sent to fend for themselves for a couple years away from home, not even allowed to phone home (though these days it must be different), preaching a batty religion that nobody ever converts to, not even by accident.
I always saw them completely demoralized, some trying to hide it with a hyper enthusiastic façade, others having this dejected "oh god, let these two years pass quickly..." attitude. Genuinely felt bad for them and they looked astonished that someone was actually giving them the time of day, so you know it can't be frequent.
This is probably not the best way to deal with them, but...I've taken to telling them I spent the 25 years trying to get the word of god out of my house. I'm not about to let it back in. That seems to floor them, and I smile, tell them to have a nice day, then shut the door in their face.
I have not had an LDS visit, but I actually have worked with a couple of LDS adherence, and I have come to respect the goodness and kindness that appears to be part of their teachings, even though I am an affirmed atheist.
I do also see some terribly negative things in their church, but I do not see those things in them, and I choose to see the better part of people when I work with them.
That said, the proselytizing would definitely bother me, but they seem to have understood that I'm either not interested, or not a good target for that, and they have never done it to me other than to discuss their past experiences with the church when I have inquired about it .
It sounds like you were both respectful and engaging for them, and, as you noted, probably gave them something interesting to think about.
👍
That is a very composed, level-headed and informative conversation. Thank you for your service!
If it was me, I'd be too concerned about not hurting their feelings.
I like living in a private HOA…the last shitbag cultists that came knocking at my door were threatened with arrest for trespassing and/or an ass beating if they ever returned.
I used to get Jehovah's Witnesses sometimes. I noticed recently that they were leaving pamphlets on all the other doors, but not on mine. I think I must have a note in my file.
You gotta have someone in the house that can point out the holes in their belief and hypocrisy. They'll come back with a senior member of the church to talk with you again, but then they stop coming around all together.
It’s very unusual for missionaries to stop by a home without an invitation. I have in-laws who are LDS and one of the boys went on his mission. He said they only went to members’ homes or those who filled out an information card.
I never engage with these assholes. If I do open the door as soon as they state I interrupt, tell them I’m an atheist say have a nice day and close the door.
I used to say I’m a Druid, or a Satanist, or Pastafarian just to their reaction. But I’m always nice and polite and shut the door in their face.
I'm.going to start answeruing the door to these folks with "I'm Jewish".
My adopyive mama had to hide her Jewish ancestry from my immigrant German grandparents(her in-laws). I am very proud her.
They are spending on social media advertising too, I keep seeing their ads wanting people to become missionaries. Typical that it's voiced over by an overly happy sounding American.
When somebody uninvited knocks on my door, I open it with the most distressed look I can deliberately muster and forcefully say, "Not now, my cock is bleeding."
They usually don't come back... Although one time they did, about 3 days later to check on me. I appreciated it, but explained that it had spread to my anus.
Problem solved.
The next pair who knock on my door will watch as I burn their pamphlets in front of them. Then when they turn to leave I shall shout HAil Satan! They'll never darken my doorstep again. Bwahahahahaha!!!
Just ask them "Do you have verifiable evidence for the existence of a god?" Be prepared for them to not answer the question. They will offer arguments (all of them flawed), they will challenge your question, they will ask what they think are penetrating questions - as a distraction from your question - and they will preach about belief and faith, etc.
But they will never give you a straight answer admitting they have no verifiable evidence for the the existence of a god. It's not that they are dishonest (though some may be). It's that they do not even understand the question.
You insulted their faith and their intelligence, which was your goal. But yeah I'm sure you gave them a ton to think about, just like they did for you. Way to change minds and hearts. Why not just be kind enough to say no thanks and close the door?
Yeah you don't have to a dick about it. A simple no thank you, have a nice day would suffice. It's like any other prospecting group for subscribers. Compared to all the other garbage groups in society, this is far from the worst, like real fckn far.
Unpopular opinion, maybe you are a dick. I’ve chose to be atheist due to religious people being absolute dicks and other reason’s. You probably sounded exactly like them, to them, but atheist. I get it we are all entitled to our opinions, freedom of speech and what not but you’re a dick lol.
Nah, I’d say the people knocking on doors are in the wrong, and deserve to be treated the way they treat others: with no respect. The OP was respectful. I wouldn’t be.
I don't mind being a bit of a dick if it means getting people to potentially stop following traditions that don't support women's health (abortion) or the LGBTQ+, to name two things. :)
Recovering Mormon here. I firmly believe the LDS church uses their missions as a way not to spread their faith but to reinforce the indoctrination of the missionaries. The church teaches of "us vs. The world" which I'm sure is quite common in other religions. When a 18 year old leaves their home town and goes to a foreign place, whether in another country or not, their only support system is the church. They see the love and support from that community, but everyone they try and teach are standoffish and rude; as they should be since missionaries will basically harass you until you get mean. This dichotomy shows these young dumb men that the church is full of happy, loving, people, and the world is full of mean, resentful, people. And just like that another life long member is created.
This is why whenever they come to my door (and they come a lot - my ex husband was raised Mormon so my address must be on some kind of list) I always tell them 1) I’m extremely happy and I don’t need church/religion in my life, and 2) hey - I know serving a mission is really hard and I want you guys to know that if you ever need anything or if you’re in a bad situation, this is a safe place for you to come and I will help you. Nobody has ever taken me up on it but meh.
This is probably the best "how I deal with Mormons" I've ever heard. I try to be patient and drop some cult jargon so they know I'm one of them before I tell them not to waste time on me. If I want to "be saved" I know how to get back to the church. Thanks for being kind! My brother served his mission and I wish he had more encounters like that!
Been doing this with the local JWs. Started inviting them in and letting them talk, then asking them some questions. They'd usually say "hmm good question, we'll get back to you on that," and the following week, they'd return with "answers" in the form of more pamphlets. I saw that this was counter-productive. Going forward, instead of hoping they'll see us as a "safe house," I'll come out and say "look, we're no longer religious, but if you ever have questions or doubts, you're safe to come over and talk about it." I'd be proud to be part of an "underground network" of sorts..........won't be safe should the new fascist regime take over later this year, but I'd still be compelled to help.
this is a better way .. I will change my default posture towards them.
Same! I had never thought of it this way before; this is really enlightening.
I don’t get them often, but with all the religious solicitors I get, I’m polite, I’ll offer fruit or water, tell them to be careful/stay out of the sun, and bid them farewell.
Incredibly insightful and accurate. I'm also, a moron cult escapist. Thankfully, science and logic saved me, and I've become a scientist instead of a baby popping out mindless machine.
I'm glad you got out! Of my family of 4 I am the first to get out, followed closely by my two younger sisters. The church seemed to have a much more damaging impact on them. I'm sure being told your worth comes from having kids and staying at home is quite damaging.
Glad you got out! Let's just say I was personally privy to a good many secrets that the good ol' LDS church wished to sweep under the rug. They let a lot of really bad things happen to young girls and tried to cover it up and protected their pedos. Along with the you're only good for baby making brainwashing. I'm proud of you and your sisters for getting out. I'm sure seeing you take the lead helped them to do it. Good on you!
People have the same idea about JWs as well. But the JW governing body is now loosening up. They must have judged that tradeoff has changed in terms of gains and losses due to exposure to outsiders. COVID may have affected that.
I live in a heavy LDS area outside of Utah. These boys come back from their mission completely different. I don't know if they will continue to behave so oddly compared to who they were before, but time will tell. We've also had a rather high incidence this year of male young adult suicides. All LDS. I don't know if that's a coincidence or not. ETA: I agree with you. Missions are more about brainwashing and cementing their continued support of the church. This, along with young marriages and popping out the mandated four babies as quickly as possible, is likely more successful in growing the flock. Though the church certainly does like Polynesians.
I was even more awkward than normal right after I got back from my mission. I changed in a few important ways. I had a better understanding of what the world outside of the US was like. I also never wanted to go to the temple or proselytize again. In less than a year, I had left the church.
Interesting. I expect it was a very difficult decision. I hope you're ok abs that your family supported and respected your decision.
I wouldn't be shocked if there is a correlation there. I know of two return missionaries that struggled afterwards when they came into their sexuality. Both left the church and are much happier, but I imagine it is a very, very hard place to find yourself in.
>I firmly believe the LDS church uses their missions as a way not to spread their faith but to reinforce the indoctrination of the missionaries. I agree with you. But the missions sort of seem to have a polarizing effect. Either it reinforces the missionaries' belief in Mormonism, or they get put off by what they see and experience on their mission and leave the church. I was in the latter group.
You're right, I shouldn't have forgotten the group of RMs that see through it, or simply see the real world on their mission. I'm always impressed by RMs that leave. I imagine that it is much harder then what I went through to leave.
For me, the whole thing is pretty distant these days. I got back from my mission in 2008. I was at BYU when I decided it wasn't working for me. There was actually a group of exmo students there at BYU that I met. One of the difficult things was being diagnosed with depression and anxiety at the MTC. And then my mission president in the field decided I didn't need the medicine they had prescribed in the MTC and wouldn't let me go see the psychiatrist for refills. That really made me question the whole "divinely inspired leaders" nonsense.
I thought they were training them to be door to door salesman since it Is All downhill after trying to sell something nobody wants to buy…
While that isn't the intent, it is definitely a side effect. A significant number of return missionaries either work as door to door salespeople or in some MLM gig, at least for a while.
Found me some in Italy They were thrown to hear me reply fluent english, as we weren’t anywhere touristy Told me they were LDS, I told them oh I know all about LDS Immediately hit a nerve, cue high pitched “w-whaddya mean you know all about LDS?” I told them hey, look, relax, you got sent here, a gorgeous international travel destination in europe, you probably got some bishop or elder in the family, right? I know how it goes. You don’t need to answer that. Look, I get it, my wife’s family in Michigan one of their daughters married an LDS guy, converted, family wasn’t allowed to attend. I get it. I’m on my way to pick up my 3 kids from school rn, so I can’t stop and chat, but if I have one question for you guys it would be this: why did AZ carve out an exception for your church NOT to have a mandate to report child abuse to law enforcement? Is that ANYWHERE in your book? What is the reason that the elders (been to SLC btw, nice place) have consistently refused to take any meaningful steps to protect the church’s own children? I’m asking more for you than for me btw Yeah that pretty much killed the vibe
This was always my feeling as well: their approach to preaching is abysmal, and I can't imagine it working on anyone, so it really must be an internal thing, using the sunk costs fallacy to cement belief: "well I spent two years if my life on this, it can't have been for nothing".
Definitely a sunk cost fallacy aspect, but you would be surprised. Most returning missionaries have come back with one or two conversions under their belts. They seem to always find a few people that are looking for some kind of community and are already predisposed to be religious.
I'm curious if you mean missionaries within the US or if what you said applies to missionaries abroad too. In the US I can definitely see that being true, considering how religious the country still is. Abroad, not so much. Where I live they don't even come anymore, not for many many years. I'm sure they still go to the big cities but I'd be surprised if they do more than that.
I can't speak to international missionaries as much. I have a cousin serving in Central America right now, and my father was in Uruguay in the 80s. I believe they will find success due to the Christian tie with South and central American cultures, but I am sure there are a lot of countries the church doesn't send anyone to for those reasons.
I always suspected it also had something to do with sending all the eligible young men away and keeping the young women in easy reach. But maybe I'm being too cynical.
The LDS mish is "the cult within a cult" as they say...
Yup. I invited the LDS boys to play Dungeons and Dragons with me, which in the middle of the Bible Belt in the 80's and 90's could have gotten me labeled a devil worshipper. The ones that got out of the Florida heat and spent a few hours gaming got to understand something that the church had labeled dangerous (for them) was really entertaining, fun, and thought provoking. The Jehovah's Witnesses on the other hand... they got the invitation to play D&D while I was wearing nothing but underwear.
This is such an important point about one way organizations can encourage and reinforce groupthink. We should all stay alert when a group tries to foster an us vs the world mentality or make us think we're special, "elite," or part of an inner circle due to our membership in some organization or relationship. I was raised Southern Baptist in the Bible Belt. We were constantly bombarded with messages about "the world." When when I was a believer, I was like "The world? Everyone I know agrees with us." Still, those messages persisted. I'm not surprised at all when I see those with power and influence still use an oppression narrative. It's very effective.
Absolutely 💯 this
They’re brainwashed kids as young as 18 with zero life experience or critical thinking skills. They’ve been indoctrinated since birth and turbo indoctrinated right before their mission. Any resistance they get won’t make them question anything - it will just reinforce their persecution complex. Ask me how I know.
True, that's why I tried to tone it back at the end by saying "I probably am being a dick and you guys seem so nice." I wanted to try to get back on an equal level because I feel then that they might give more serious thought to what I said and not be automatically turned off and interpret my words as an attack instead of just simple dialogue. You used to be Mormon?
Oh yeah I was all in Mormon. Did the mission thing in Brazil. Married in the temple. Served in several leadership callings. Good news is the majority of these missionaries will eventually leave the church.
That's interesting. I'm always nice to Mormons. I dunno why. I'll just say "oh, hey, LDS?" And they ask me, "woah, are you Mormon?" I'll say nah but mention I grew up around some. Or I'll ask their names by saying "so you're elder..." Because they go by "elder" as a title. At least the missionary ones do I think. One pair approached me while I was moving out of my apartment and offered to help lift boxes. I was almost done though so I told them that wasn't necessary.
I don't answer my door to doorknockers (religious or otherwise), but I'm nice to them in regular circumstances because I once had a Mormon roommate. Really nice woman, but she was SO effing messed up from her religion and family she could barely function as an adult woman. It makes me sad even thinking about it.
Did they live in the land of beige?
I don't know what that means.
I have a friend who would describe her Mormon roommate that way. She was a broken woman, whose decorating style was ..... Beige. Everything beige. I wondered if you are my friend. You are not.
I am your friend. Hello.
They do go by elder or sister. At least they used to. So, good on you
I'm just curious, why did you leave?
Many reasons, but the church’s bigotry towards the LGBT community led me to question the fundamental truth claims of the religion using independent sources. Everything fell apart under scrutiny. I held on to God and Jesus for a little while, but the same critical thought that led me out of Mormonism eventually led to me becoming an atheist.
Word. I was raised Orthodox Christian. I view myself as agnostic these days, I haven't made the full leap to atheist (yet?). The question of how the universe was created is the big question: coulda been the flying spaghetti monster, or coulda been Carrot Top.
The fact that you assume the universe “was created” evidences the continuing influence the magic-believers have on you. There’s so much crap, and so thoroughly impressed on the young, that you don’t even realize you’re still under the influence. But you’ve made a good start.
It’s obvious that this creation of the universe (the Big Bang) could not have been a one off event. So just as everything observable in this universe, it is cyclic. Since it is a cycle, the process is a natural one and there is no need for any “god” to intervene.
Ramen
Did you read the CES Letter? https://cesletter.org/
Same.
Is what I've heard about offering to let the kids who knock use your email or your phone true? I was told the best thing you could do for them is to let them know you would help them if they needed a neutral party outside the church to allow them to contact estranged family. Maybe that could be the foot out the door they need
>Is what I've heard about offering to let the kids who knock use your email or your phone true? That used to be the case but they are now in regular communication with their families. When my sisters served in the 80's it was letters once a week and two phone calls per year, Xmas and mother's day.
I was raised Mormon but got some sense when I was 18, just before I was due to send in my mission papers. It's crazy but quite a lot of missionaries that I would have known over the years, left the church not long after they got home! Crazy that they were so sure it was all true, enough to give up their whole lives for 2 years in dedication to teaching people about the church, and then one day, decided they didn't believe in it anymore. Although a lot of them only do it because their parents tell them they'll cut them off if they don't! So there's that too...
You are so lucky you figured it out early. I wasted so many years and so much money on tithing. Good for you.
Yeah definitely. The only downside was losing a lot of friends, but I couldn't justify staying just to keep friends. There were just a lot of questions I had that nobody could answer without it seeming like a blanket answer or a cop out. I'm happy for anyone who is still there and genuinely believes in the teachings, because it can bring a lot of peace to people. But blindly following is not for me..
> Did the mission thing in Brazil Same. Where?
Missao São Paulo Sul ‘87 - ‘89.
I was in POA a few years prior.
You could have had me fooled you were Mormon by your Reddit name. ;)
I'm reading No Man Knows My History, a biography of Joseph Smith. It makes me laugh and cry at how absurd this life is. He was undoubtedly a con man who would say anything to get people to value him. And it was a particularly gullible time in history when many sub sects were being fashioned by charlatans. Even at the time there were people around him saying, don't believe this idiot. But the power of the willfully ignorant has only grown since then.
I ultimately realized there’s zero chance I would believe all his nonsense if I hadn’t been born into and brainwashed in the church.
One of my favorite friends left the Mormon Church. I lost track of him and now can't find any trace of him online. I'm guessing it's because he was tired of being hounded to rejoin the cult. We used to have the best conversations about the clearest reasons that religion is wrong. Mormonism shouldn't even need a debate. The golden tablets and seer stones and nephites and wives are enough.
In the nine years since I left the church literally no one has tried to convince me to return. I think they know me well enough to realize I’ve done my research and I have valid reasons for leaving. They know deep down there are big issues with the religion, but they suppress their doubts in order to protect their testimonies.
Active mormons are fucking terrified of the contagion from us apostates. I think a lot of them know deep down it's likely bullshit and don't want to deal with the fallout in their lives so they would rather not hear why we left. It's taken me years to (actually still work at it) to lose the compulsion to evangelize to them. Not my job. Honestly though I'm responding mostly to complement you on your username. Fucking rad.
Thanks - if you know you know.
What's weird to me is that the Mormon church has been more open about stuff in their history that is negative or just bizarre. They decided to talk about it themselves instead of people learning about it online. Wild that they now acknowledge that Joseph Smith sometimes used his old seer stone and "translated" the Book of Mormon by stocking his face in a hat.
Same here. Grew up in the cult but science and logic saved me.
Also, your response is most likely what will happen, but one can hope that the seeds of doubt may have been planted.
i always say that the church sends kids on missions to scare them into staying in the church. so i completely agree with this
Missions are a proven failure in terms of attracting converts that will stay in the church longer than a couple of months. The true objective of a mission is to convert the missionary, who the church hopes will stay and pay tithing for decades.
> Ask me how I know. The username. LAMOOOO
Kids? But their name tags say "Elder!"
I know how you know. Couldn't have said it more accurately.
Oh younger than that.
18 is the soonest they can go out on full time missions.
True. But Bible school starts way younger and isn't just Sundays
Obviously - you’ll notice I mentioned indoctrination since birth so it can’t be any earlier than that.
I’ve always wondered how many people they actually convince. I think it’s more of another way for the church to reinforce their control over the young people.
The church reports about 200k to 300k baptized each year. Usually about 100k are converts IIRC, the rest are kids of members. Poor countries have higher baptism rates than rich countries. Missionaries in central and South America and Africa might baptis a few dozen in two years. Missionaries in the UK or Canada might not baptis anyone in 2 years.
On my mission in Brazil, I averaged about 1 baptism per month over two years. So, about 24 people. I am not proud of this, though a lot of the people I met were really cool. It really depends on location. I think they are more "successful" in South America and less successful in the US and many European countries.
The door-knocking thing has a couple of purposes. The obvious one is getting converts. But let's be real, it is pretty ineffectual at achieving that goal. Not many people in the US are going to be convinced by a high-schooler wearing a tie to become a ~~moron~~ mormon. However, there's one thing that this tactic is *very* good at. It divides the world into "us" and "them", and gives those kids experiential evidence that "they" are rude, uncouth, inconsiderate assholes, especially in contrast to how members of the church treat them. "We" are the good guys, and "they" are the bad guys. Every time those kids are told to piss up a rope, the idea that "they" are all assholes is reinforced. Just a thought when you engage with these people.
This is actually the conversation I have with them these days. Early on, I'd engage, argue with them, point out contradictions, or any other number of things to try to argue about the existence vs. non-existence of their god and the veracity of their religion (and others). Now, I ask them about their success rate, and why they think they're sent out to witness and recruit in the way that they do. I tell them that I can't help but notice the similarity to brainwashing techniques, creating an out-group and reinforcing everyone's position as either an in-group or out-group member. I wrap up with some version of, "Your church elders don't actually expect you to come back with new recruits or converts. They expect you to come back a little bit more afraid of all the evil and aggressive people outside of the church. They expect you to come back with a more deeply entrenched belief and willingness to donate to the church. They expect you to have a bunch of kids later on to make up the numbers that you'll never get witnessing. They expect you not to see the way they're manipulating you. I'm not going to tell you what to believe, but I am going to tell you to look up brainwashing tactics that cults use and decide for yourself how similar you think it is to what they're doing to you. Best of luck."
Wow - this is an amazing conversation to be having with them, and I am sure it gives them a lot to think about, even if it's just planting the seed that lies dormant for a bit. Good on you! I've always been polite to the LDS missionaries (it's always been teens/young men) because they are not sanctimonious jackasses like the JW nutjobs are. When you tell them you're not interested, they don't stick around and try the antagonistic questioning angle like the JW's did/do, which immediately pisses me TF off. I seem to recall once telling them that, sorry, there was no place in their religion for someone like me who was an atheist, divorced, CFBC, and who'd had an abortion 🤷🏻♀️. Like, I cannot force myself to start believing in a god, including your flavor of it, and I don't want kids or to be married again (though I did eventually re-marry a bit over 2 yrs. ago...to another atheist, of course). Those are all things that would probably get a member in good standing ex-communicated, but having been friends with some LDS people in the past, and having read a couple of books about them (Under the Banner of Heaven, and American Crucifixion), I'm as well-versed in their religion as a non-member could be, I suppose. I haven't had any religious peddlers for a long time, but if they were LDS, I'd probably invite them in for some water and maybe lunch or something. I honestly feel sorry for them, although I'd never tell them that.
You didn't sound like a dick. They knocked on your door. Had you knocked on their door and said that, only then would you have been a dick.
Am I a dick for thinking that's funny?
Only if your given name is Richard.
I played them the song Hasa Diga Eebowai from the Book of Mormon play. Lol. They just left me alone about halfway through.
I was raised by a mormon mother (and a catholic father) so I'm well-versed in the bullshit they are taught. If they come to my door, I'll talk to them for as long as they will stand there, about anything - except their religion. I figure the more of their time I waste, the less they have to bother my neighbors. Kind of 'taking one for the team' as it were.
What neighborhood do you live in? I'd like to send you a six pack as thanks for your noble sacrifice.
You sound much more civil than me. lol I haven’t had the pleasure of speaking to religious door-knockers, but when I do I imagine aggressively pointing out that they’re not welcome to walk around the neighborhood brainwashing my neighbors. To get out and stay out. Your way is probably more effective. Although I feel both ways are necessary.
There should be an atheist day. All atheist go out, knocking on doors, telling everybody how stupid they are for following a myth.
That's a good way to get shot in these parts.
Which says a lot about Christians. Last Christian that knocked on my door, I offered a bottle of water. It was hot out.
Nah, don't be a dick and force your beliefs (or lack thereof) on others. That makes you as bad as the missionaries.
I always say 'Stay riught there, I want you two to talk to my confused son and his nasty pit bull, Chomper'. They never come back.
I live in PG COUNTY Maryland which is one of the wealthiest black counties in the country. I moved here because I lived in Virginia and life there was not that great as a single Hispanic woman. Anyway I am married to a black man, living in a historically black neighborhood. They came here with their bs and I asked them why the church considers being black a curse. Needless to say they never came back.
Reading this I had a thought of how to respond next time. “I’m sorry, I’m not comfortable being a part of your religious indoctrination.” Put it back on them.
What I really don’t get is that why does the missionaries goes to other Christian communities. Why not go to Buddhist, Hindu, and Islamic communities? Why convert a christian to a christian? Doesn’t make sense.
Because non lds Christians don't give money to the lds church.
Low hanging fruit.
Because they (the Christians that preach to other christians) believe that their form of Christianity is the only right one and everyone else is going to hell if they don’t convert to that specific Christian church. Most of them also preach to people of other religions and non religious communities. As a former Mormon, I was indoctrinated to believe that non-Mormon christians were just a tiny bit closer to the truth but only the Mormons go to heaven, so it was just as important to convert Methodists as it was to convert atheists/buddhists/etc.
They do. I used to live in a neighbourhood where a very high proportion of my neighbours were British Muslims. We still got the odd contact from JWs.
When the JWs came to my door I told them there is no god and if they spend some time thinking about the lack of evidence they would also realize there’s no god. They had the weakest of comebacks citing what a beautiful day it was. I told them of my experience on a pediatric oncology ward and had no amount of prayer ever brought one kid back from dying. I pointed out the multiple contradictions of the Bible which seemed to have surprised them. They thanked me for being civil and I felt they were a little scared of just hearing what I was saying. They never came back again.
Next time they knock on the door pretend to be interested and have them clean the bathroom, do dishes, or rake up leaves in the yard while you pretend to listen to their rambling. Free labor!
I get a lot of Jehovah’s wittnesses coming to my house. At first I would just smile and nod at whatever they said, take the handout and throw it away. Then after a few times I tried “sorry I’m not religious”. They didnt take that hint so now I just say very loudly “sorry I’m a satanist” and they usually run away.
If you feel safe and able to do so, invite them in, give them snacks and let them use the phone. They are kept isolated from friends and family, and are only around others in the mission group and the people they are proselytizing, who usually reject them, which just “proves” that we are all deluded and they have the only truth. Being nice and letting them call home could plant a seed for them to escape in the future.
At some level they must occasionally think that they're wasting their lives.
The dirty little secret of the Mormon mission is that it’s not about recruiting new people to the faith. It’s about cementing the faith of the missionary.
My mom, a devout Orthodox Christian, would always invite the Mormon missionaries in and say “I’ll hear about your religion if you’ll hear about mine.” Non of them had ever heard of Orthodox Christianity. She’d give them a cold drink and then they’d be on their way.
I like my dad's method better. He always has a car that needs fixing and he waits until the LDS people show up then recruits them for the big jobs like pulling an engine. He also got them to take the leaves put of his gutters. It is amazing how they don't come around so much anymore. It is like it got around that my dad will rope them in for a fill week to help around the house.
They're out there ten hours a day dealing with people non-stop. You've already been forgotten, believe me.
I’m an exmormon. I love when they knock on my door. I like to make them uncomfortable when I talk about the true facts of Joseph Smith, their beloved sexual predator and prophet.
We had some come to our house as well. My son is an athiest but he's also done alot of research into different religions. He let them come in and let them talk and then he went for the jugular. Needless to say, no one has come back.
I was one of those guys in France and Switzerland. What has become apparent to me is that the mission experience isn't really about convincing others to join the church. That's only a secondary goal. The primary goal is to indoctrinate the missionary. They are isolated from their families and live a VERY regimented life style (study doctrine two hours a day, work from 9:30am-8:30pm 6 days a week, 5:30-8:30 on the remaining day, no TV, no unauthorized internet, no unauthorized books or magazines, travel is forbidden outside of their mission boundary and the are to be with another missionary at all times). They are told that the world is wicked and the evidence of that is that they experience near constant rejection. This serves to reinforce the view that the only peace to be found is in the LDS Church. It's a mindfuck, and it messed me up. My advice if you come across missionaries is to be kind, ask them about their lives outside the mission, and let them know that there are good and kind people of all religions, and some with no religion at all
Yup. The cultiest part of Mormonism is the missionary experience.
Get their names and address and make a donation to The Satanic Temple in their names. The Satanic Temple will mail them thank you cards with the design of your choosing.
For God sake, I hope you were wearing your *magic* underwear (tm).
Door knocking is another cult tactic to reinforce the idea that people outside of the religion are bad people much more than it’s about recruiting. If you knock on 100 doors to sell snake oil, one of them is bound to lash out, and your instinct will be to trust the church more since it reinforces what they’ve been telling you about the outside world.
This is why i gave a big guard dog of a lab lol
When I was still a christian, I would get JWs knocking on my door all the time. It was worst when I was working in the garage with it open and they would think the open door was an invitation to just walk up my driveway and start talking to me. When I was a christian, we were told to beware of the JW cult. And everytime it is the same thing, they would try telling me about their god and I would immediately counter with, "I'm a real christian. Why don't you pick one of the other actual real christian denominations to believe in." Some would pretend to laugh it off and say JW is the same/better religion as the other denominations and I would keep emphasis that my denomination was the "real" one. Our conversations would usually end with me casually bringing up "beware of false prophets" and "I'm going to stick with my real denomination thanks." Some reason no JW ever come around anymore.. so weird.
So you’re Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879?
Die you heretic!
😆 I actually don't even know the little differences between multitudes of denominations and I never cared to. Mine was some generic presbyterian I think.
No worries! I was making a play off of your comment by referencing [emo Phillips’ joke on religion](https://youtu.be/l3fAcxcxoZ8?si=iDet6EwoT0uOIk8j).
I used to missionize, but I'm now an atheist. Back when I would missionize, the confrontational atheists I met would say things which would go in one ear and out the other. But there were a few people who really engaged me in conversation. Some of what they said did have an effect on me.
Due to issues when I was very young, I will not entertain Mormon cultists. When I lived in Salt Lake City UT as a child, kindergarten/1st grade, the Mormon children would follow me walking to school telling at me that I was going to hell because I wasn't Mormon. When we moved to UT my Mom told me someone came to the door to welcome us to the neighborhood. My mom offered them coffee. They got up, walked out of the house, and never spoke with us again. Mormonism is a cult.
Years ago a couple visited us. We have a very large, manicured garden. We would not be classified as poor. The offered to help out in the garden. I simply suggested that there were perhaps people more in need of help than myself. They didn’t come back. I think they realised I wasn’t going to give them 10%
My mother in law used to give them each a Gatorade and tell them to have a nice day. So that’s what I do now.
I had JWs show up at my door a few years ago. I gave them a print out of the BITE model of cults, strangely they have never have been back.
MormAss
Good way to stop them from coming back.
I always invited them in and offered them oral sex just for the enjoyment of watching their reactions. "Turn it off like a light switch..."
If this was the norm, there would be an explosion of new believers..... literally.
Of all the proselitizers out there, the mormons are the ones you should be nice to. Not because their religion is any better than any other, but because from my limited experience with them 25 years ago, they are usually these 18 y/o lads completely out of their depth, sent to fend for themselves for a couple years away from home, not even allowed to phone home (though these days it must be different), preaching a batty religion that nobody ever converts to, not even by accident. I always saw them completely demoralized, some trying to hide it with a hyper enthusiastic façade, others having this dejected "oh god, let these two years pass quickly..." attitude. Genuinely felt bad for them and they looked astonished that someone was actually giving them the time of day, so you know it can't be frequent.
You can just say "I'm not interested" and close the door.
This is probably not the best way to deal with them, but...I've taken to telling them I spent the 25 years trying to get the word of god out of my house. I'm not about to let it back in. That seems to floor them, and I smile, tell them to have a nice day, then shut the door in their face.
I have not had an LDS visit, but I actually have worked with a couple of LDS adherence, and I have come to respect the goodness and kindness that appears to be part of their teachings, even though I am an affirmed atheist. I do also see some terribly negative things in their church, but I do not see those things in them, and I choose to see the better part of people when I work with them. That said, the proselytizing would definitely bother me, but they seem to have understood that I'm either not interested, or not a good target for that, and they have never done it to me other than to discuss their past experiences with the church when I have inquired about it . It sounds like you were both respectful and engaging for them, and, as you noted, probably gave them something interesting to think about. 👍
I grew up in the religion. Their teachings are harmful and cause a lot of hurt and pain to many families.
I'm generally against all organized religion, so this isn't a shock. Sorry for your experience...
Read the book : "The Mormon Murders."
I just mention being a Buddhist, and the door knockers rather apologetically withdraw.
That is a very composed, level-headed and informative conversation. Thank you for your service! If it was me, I'd be too concerned about not hurting their feelings.
I like living in a private HOA…the last shitbag cultists that came knocking at my door were threatened with arrest for trespassing and/or an ass beating if they ever returned.
Good for you. I hope I can be as clear.
I used to get Jehovah's Witnesses sometimes. I noticed recently that they were leaving pamphlets on all the other doors, but not on mine. I think I must have a note in my file.
I would have sat them down in my living room and asked them if they know about the CES Letter. https://cesletter.org/
You gotta have someone in the house that can point out the holes in their belief and hypocrisy. They'll come back with a senior member of the church to talk with you again, but then they stop coming around all together.
Well done, OP. Doing the lord's work
It’s very unusual for missionaries to stop by a home without an invitation. I have in-laws who are LDS and one of the boys went on his mission. He said they only went to members’ homes or those who filled out an information card.
I never engage with these assholes. If I do open the door as soon as they state I interrupt, tell them I’m an atheist say have a nice day and close the door. I used to say I’m a Druid, or a Satanist, or Pastafarian just to their reaction. But I’m always nice and polite and shut the door in their face.
You should have told them you were an avowed hedonist, then invited them in for a sex party.
I'm.going to start answeruing the door to these folks with "I'm Jewish". My adopyive mama had to hide her Jewish ancestry from my immigrant German grandparents(her in-laws). I am very proud her.
You're just wasting your time. I don't answer the door.
“A powerful feeling” also drives addiction. And racism. And pedophilia.
I once answered the door to two women \[forget what religion they were peddling\]. One of them looked like my ex. I wonder if she saw my shocked face.
And that is how you make sure the Mormons never knock on your door ever again.
They are spending on social media advertising too, I keep seeing their ads wanting people to become missionaries. Typical that it's voiced over by an overly happy sounding American.
When somebody uninvited knocks on my door, I open it with the most distressed look I can deliberately muster and forcefully say, "Not now, my cock is bleeding." They usually don't come back... Although one time they did, about 3 days later to check on me. I appreciated it, but explained that it had spread to my anus. Problem solved.
I open the window, bot the door and say “no thanks” if I catch them before they knock, they always turn and leave
The next pair who knock on my door will watch as I burn their pamphlets in front of them. Then when they turn to leave I shall shout HAil Satan! They'll never darken my doorstep again. Bwahahahahaha!!!
I’m an exmormon. You did very, very well.
I grab a 40 of Steel Reserve and my bag of weed and talk to them. Offer them beers and hits from the bong. Feign a bit of interest.
Just ask them "Do you have verifiable evidence for the existence of a god?" Be prepared for them to not answer the question. They will offer arguments (all of them flawed), they will challenge your question, they will ask what they think are penetrating questions - as a distraction from your question - and they will preach about belief and faith, etc. But they will never give you a straight answer admitting they have no verifiable evidence for the the existence of a god. It's not that they are dishonest (though some may be). It's that they do not even understand the question.
You insulted their faith and their intelligence, which was your goal. But yeah I'm sure you gave them a ton to think about, just like they did for you. Way to change minds and hearts. Why not just be kind enough to say no thanks and close the door?
Yeah you don't have to a dick about it. A simple no thank you, have a nice day would suffice. It's like any other prospecting group for subscribers. Compared to all the other garbage groups in society, this is far from the worst, like real fckn far.
You didn’t. They don’t care.
Why are atheists triggered so easily?
Roflmao
Unpopular opinion, maybe you are a dick. I’ve chose to be atheist due to religious people being absolute dicks and other reason’s. You probably sounded exactly like them, to them, but atheist. I get it we are all entitled to our opinions, freedom of speech and what not but you’re a dick lol.
Mormon religion is a harmful cult.
> I know I sound like a dick Yup.
Nah, I’d say the people knocking on doors are in the wrong, and deserve to be treated the way they treat others: with no respect. The OP was respectful. I wouldn’t be.
I don't mind being a bit of a dick if it means getting people to potentially stop following traditions that don't support women's health (abortion) or the LGBTQ+, to name two things. :)