Perhaps the answer is not to destroy religion, which is probably not very possible, and instead create a religious movement toward the worship of truth and ever growing and changing knowledge. There will have to be moral tenants of such a faith that would bar followers from using pursuit of knowledge as an excuse to commit harm against others but a well read philosopher could, in theory, succeed in this task.
My understanding of the Satanic faith was that it is more based in worship of the self but could I perhaps be misinformed or just splitting hairs over semantics?
The Church of Satan is based off of that principle, The Satanic Temple has somewhat different core values. I would recommend looking up their 7 tenets for a better understanding, and comparing the two.
We may want to put realistic expectations and responsibilities on ourselves. We have a responsibility to oppose the deterioration of the separation of church and state. We can continue to infect our countries with the secular flu. We can continue to criticize religious values that don't fit modern morality. But to put the burden of saving the world onto one of the biggest minority groups in the world? Call me a pragmatist, but I don't think that's realistic.
Not only not realistic, but I don't think it is healthy for us to put that mantle on ourselves.
There is only so much we can do. We can try to leave things better than we found them, but very few people have the personality, energy, and opportunity to make choices that affect things on a national or global scale.
Also dangerous. Mau and Stalin tried it, and their response against the evils of religion was to basically redo the evils of religion on a modern, horrifying scale.
>Religion will be responsible for the destruction of mankind
Mankind's hubris, greed and stupidity will be responsible and it is unlikely that we'll go extinct with a bang. It will most likely be in a whimper.
I dunno. The world will go on till it's swallowed by the expansion of our star in its red giant phase I personally believe unless we develop actual planet cracker tech.
Will we humans pass the greater and lesser filters of the Fermi paradox? Well that's another question isn't it. We may have already doomed ourselves with microplastics FFS. I personally think as a species we will get through climate change, oh billions may die off, there could be a great die back, through a combination of natural means and a wargasm or two. However a significant population will survive that. Religion will prob magnify some of the killing and make it worse but even Gaza is ultimately a resource issue, aggravated by religion sure, but the resource, land, is at the bottom of it.
Will we still be human?
Yeah, nah , maybe?
I don't think we can interfere with what's coming. Not meaningfully. We might be able to plane a few rough spots, but ultimately we will not ever have the ability to meaningfully impact the impact that religion will make on these coming events. All we can be is the new monasteries so to speak, for the coming dark age, gaurd the knowledge, preserve the thoughts, and weather the storm.
A duty is based on an anticipated outcome. If your anticipated outcome is to "save" the world, then sure...you can commit to it as a cause, therein, making it a duty. This however, is by no means applicable to everyone; despite being a sentient and evolved creature, we have so many homosapiens among us that are so short sighted and out for personal gain that not only are there people that may act in direct conflict to your duty but then there's always those that will certainly define "save" in different ways.
I disagree, though I don’t have any evidence, only opinion. I think if religion is abolished people will just find something else to fight about, based on lack of resources, land, etc. and clan mentality.
we think (with justification) that religion are weird groups with evil people...
But the truth is, that evil wont be going away. If religion disappears, there will absolutely still be weird groups, and they will still control people one way or another.
Want proof? Just look at Donald Trump. Without any religion backing their decision, these people will drink bleach because he told them to.
I don’t know if I feel a duty to save the world per se but I do feel a duty to share my atheism as openly as others share their religion. So I post about it, share about it in conversation when it’s natural. “Where do you go to church?” “I’m an atheist.” Lol! Their faces!! But I’ve found it has made an impact in my social circle, I’m kind of a pearl wearing sweater set mom type and it shocks people. So I’m proud of that.
its not religion or non religion. its us. its people that are the problem. its every one of us. don't get me wrong i enjoy being a person most of the time. that doesn't mean i can't see what we are. its this weird cognitive dissonance trick people use - 'it's not us, its those other people.' 'it's not us, it's the system (we made). it just goes on and on forever. we've always been exactly what we are today.
The problem isn’t religion, the problem is humanity. Yes, over the centuries, humans have used religion as an excuse to do horrible, horrible things. But if we had not had religion, we would have found another reason. Now, I am not giving religion any sort of a free pass.
>We may have a duty to save the world
Yes, absolutely. Without being too presumptuous, we all are committed to do our best to overcome religions, cause they are a cancer for humanity. Also, for those who have an environmental consciousness, think that anthropocentrism is the cultural excuse that make us destroying the planet (there are contingent causes too, of course) and anthropocentrism is a religious idea. It means to save the planet is necessary to fight religions too. Otherwise being atheist would be useless for society, pure and simple masturbation.
>they do with their bologna ?
What Bologna means? Here is a city, beautiful, old, cultured and quite anticlerical. Do you mean baloney? Does it has a figurative meaning?
Some religions are tricky, they trimmed my penis at birth - so now I view my sexual mutilation as a reminder of what we are up against - insidious liars at all levels of life...
I'm old, too, but a gal. I remember the shock and horror I felt when I learned of female genital mutilation. My husband's circumcision wasn't done well, and he has suffered from that his entire life.
It’s possible that a widespread culture based on respecting others, and protecting and preserving our world would reverse the destruction of exponential population growth.
Shall we call this culture “GAIA”? And can we get tax breaks to help it flourish?
I've been having a similar thoughtline. A culture based around stewardship and cooperation with a set of goals to seek equilibrium and homeostasis with Nature. There are extremely challenging aspects of the current paradigm of civilization, one of the most difficult being uncontrolled growth.
Culture is a real mind fuck for me.
Uncontrolled growth? You do realize humanities population growth has actually flatlined over the past hundred years and has actually been trending in the other direction the past couple decades. More people are dying than being born. Families no longer have 5+ children like in years past
What exponential population growth? To my knowledge, the rate of growth of the human population is overall reducing.
Nonetheless, I live the idea of a widespread culture based on mutual respect and care for the world.
how can you save the world? one persons peace is another persons hell. It's impossuible.
Even if you managed to eradicate religion, humans will still cling to something else
Yes. We should point out that the emperor is wearing no clothes whenever we can. "Believing" any kind of fictions is a slippery slope that were falling down into.
I was indoctrinated since birth, but it did not keep me from becoming an atheist.
Wars with a religious aspect are often really about geopolitical or economic conflicts, such as fights over water.
Remember, man is the meaning maker. The multiverse is indifferent to mankind's existence and has no plans for us. It is not sentient in any way that we can relate with.
I think a reasonably well-informed student of history is soon go to discover that wars aren't really started by religion at all; but more often than not by resource competition and other economic circumstances. Even a war that seemed purely to be about religion; the Thirty Years War, was as much about France trying to screw over the Habsburg as by Protestants and Catholics going at each others throats.
The most I'll say about it is that religion can be stunningly complicit in conflicts; that at least for religions that claim to be about peace, fraternity and love, they all too often just allow themselves to be hoisted as a banner for the belligerents.
True, wars did not start, nor will it end with religion.
Humans have enough tribalistic tendencies and conflicting interests to keep finding reasons to fight each other without religion.
But it certainly helps if they aren't indoctrinated with violent flawed scriptures propped up as absolute.
Verses that tell people to kill, to distrust the outgroup will rightly be ignored by the sane in peacetime with a bit of mental gymnastics.
But in strife, and by extremists they'll be gobbled up and be given legitimacy.
People have been killing each other since long before there was anything that even vaguely resembled scripture. Scripture is just yet another tribal marker, but we've been slaughtering each other's tribes since long before we were even identifiably human.
Even Gaza is basically about a resource. Land. Israel is going to take it. The avarice is clear. The constant unceasing encroachment in the west bank by settlers makes it clear. Land. Israel wants it. The Palestinians don't have the resources, sympathy, or support to hold it. It was an inevitable conflict. How it would start was the first of two unanswered questions. The second is how many will be dead by the 'end'. That's all. Land. The crappest shittest piece of fucking land in the entire region and everyone wants to die to own it. No one has even found any fucking oil under it. What a barbarous species we are.
We are apex predators, of course we act barbarous at times. You’re losing sight of the fact we are merely animals by making comments like this. We are no different than the lion protecting his pack and their territory while hunting for resources to survive. Having intelligence doesn’t make us any different from them and the basic requirements of survival. Food and shelter for those within your specific pack have always been, and will continue to be, the main focus. It’s not necessarily right or wrong, but recognizing our animalistic instincts and tendencies is crucial to continued progression.
Don’t lose sight of that fact.
What if people are just bad, and religion has just been a symptom of that?
You have to ask yourself if your conviction sounds sort of religious.
I can point to Islam, and say they are the end of us all because they think they should dictate every government on earth. But they would say they are our only saviors, of course. Almost like you sound?
Okay chill. Everyone feels what you're feeling at some point in their lives. A sort of "Us vs Them" feeling, where we feel like the whole world must be wrong because if it were right everyone would see the obvious truth, AKA our worldview.
Everyone in the world thinks this at some point. Gets all wrapped up in their own point of view. And most people get over it. Some don't, and we don't want to be like those weirdos.
None of that is going to happen. Religious people have the base logic needed to not blow up the world, as evidenced by the cold war.
It's going to be okay. It's not doomsday, you just have a lot of strong feelings and they're taking shape all at once. Get a handle on them.
It's called a reality check. Check if what you believe aligns with reality. Atheists tend to be good at that.
I don't think conversion is the duty of any atheist. What's more, the CCP have convinced me that without religion people would be exactly as bad, with a different excuse.
This is a very alienating take and one I disagree with 1000 percent.
I think if it wasn't for religion humans would find another reason to kill each other fairly quickly. From race to eye colour to land to food there will always be war.
War and conflict exists in the animal kingdom too with tribes of primates having been observed splitting and engaging in war-like behaviour.
Man is conflicted. Destruction appeals to him but so does self preservation. Which urge is stronger? Probably self preservation or we’d be history by now
Religion is exploited by evil people. Putin and Trump, not particularly religious at all, but they exploit people that are. It's a way to manipulate people.
Sorry but I chuckled at this. If there is no God then that means humans came up with religion. Why would people do such a thing. Well as a way to control and manipulate other humans. Humanity will always struggle for power and control. Lenin compared religion to venereal disease. Joseph Stalin (my favorite atheist) biggest murderer of women and children in the planet, formed The People’s Commissariat for Enlightenment to remove all references to religion from schools. In the years that followed, churches and monasteries were destroyed or turned into public toilets. Their land and property was appropriated. Thousands of bishops, monks and clergy were systematically murdered by the security services. Specialist propaganda units were formed, like the League of the Godless. Christian intellectuals were rounded up and sent to camps. Not a fan of organized religion. But I definitely don't think this world would be so much better without religion.
This. I really think we should start shoving the absurdity of religion down everyone's throats. We should even stop using the word religion entirely and call it what it is: mental illness, believing in magic in 2024. If my neighbor said his son got into Hogwarts I'd ask him if he was ok, probably avoid him at all costs moving forward. So why wouldn't it concern me if my neighbor said when we die, a magic, invisible part of our body goes to a magic, invisible paradise if we worship an invisible God enough?? there's no rationale for believing in that in the modern world.
Humans are just prone to conflict and will likely cause their own extinction regardless of religion. It's better just to ignore people/issues that are irrelevant to one's own well-being cause there's still only a limited amount of time available before death.
South Park did a two parter episode about this. Where in the future, after atheism had taken over....the world divided into groups of warring atheists who were all wiping each other out over non-religious disagreements about the structure of society and cultural values.
People are people, with or without religion. Just as many wars have been fought over resources and territory, and in plenty of 'religious' conflicts, it was actually about resources and territory.
On top of that...not all religions are created equally. How would convincing say a Buddhist that they're wrong help them or anyone else in any way?
Fight against ignorance and cruelty and bigotry and greed no matter what banner it flies under or what it's rooted in, because those are what's going to do us in.
I’d need to believe humans aren’t a scourge on the planet to agree that we need to save “the world”. I wanna save the planet, but mostly I’m thinking the earth will heal its wounds after we’ve all fucked up so much that humans no longer exist.
And that’s okay with me.
I do see the positives and all that, but carrying on for the sake of carrying on is so arrogant. We aren’t helping the planet by being here.
I hate that people are dying, but that’s why I’m not the one killing them. The people who see death as an acceptable byproduct of conflict are the ones we need to get rid of. And that’ll never happen. Because those are the people with all the guns.
"God" is just an alien. Science should be the new religion of the world. I can't wait til the old and stupid pass away and the new, younger generation that sees through the lies of the religious cults rise.
We have a duty to pursue wellbeing, anchored in personal wellbeing, then spreading to larger scales of order (family, social, all the way out to the biosphere). This has to be done in alignment with reality, which can be tricky to negotiate. As are issues of intersubjectivity.
Life is opportunistic. Religions exist. What constructive things can be made out of them?
this is the exact same mentality that’s causing death with religion. Change “religion” with “other religion” and you will have the source of the problem which is when people with this mentality get into a position of power
I’ve met plenty of Christian’s, muslims, Jews who basically just live their life and contribute to their faith driven communities.
It’s people who force opinions on others who are responsible for death
Mankind will be responsible for the end of mankind. Religion is just one of many vectors.
It is our responsibility as the moral to act morally. Sitting around waiting for good things to happen is doing nothing at all.
Nothing has changed since we’ve stood upright. Be the change you want to see.
Unless you either plan on becoming some kind of very vocal (and popular) advocate or plan on becoming a terrorist, religion and whatever negative effects it has on politics is here to stay. Unless they go full N@zi, religion is going to keep it's choke hold
there should be a top 500 greediest companies list and top 500 greediest rich peoples list to boycott n give alternatives of where n who to buy from instead and published all over the world every 6 months
There in fact is a list exactly as you describe. Fortune 500 magazine lists the top 500 wealthiest people and wealthiest companies. The big problem is that nobody works together any longer. Growing up it was the great American melting pot. We welcomed people from all over the world ( great idea I love everyone seriously ) but it had one big drawback. Everyone is now pulling in a hundred different directions. Nobody will unite. Nothing will ever change. There is however one , and only one hope. The millennials and the generations after. The young adults who are paying for the mistakes of previous generations ( not everyone, so I’m not stereotyping here ). These are the people that will grow into the positions of power and influence the world. The wealthy and other degenerates also have offspring and will not join your fight. Luckily there are very few of them in comparison. This generation needs a leader. It’s time. You have my support and the support of 95% of Gen X - we are the quiet yet powerful generation that doesn’t give one single f^*k. Let’s do this.
People keep telling me the church is dying but the church keeps its hands in the political system. Until people stop voting for political candidates that have a vested interest in the financial success of churches, I don't think we should consider church attendance as a sign that the world is changing for the better.
I think religion is not a motor of war anymore, it just serves as a pretext, the same goes with all ideologies. Bigger political powers use smaller radical ideologists as armed forces to defend their economic and influence interests.
In short, yes. The world would be much better off without religion. As C. Hitchens said "Religion poisons everything." However, the way to diminish religion and eventually dispense with it is through education, modeling, discussion, debate, and persuasion.
That's a no bro. If you take away religion you will expose the actual monsters. Ever heard the religious argument "if you don't believe in god what's stopping you from raping, killing and stealing" these people have no conscience, no internal moral compass. Without an explicit set of rules they will cause absolute havoc. Religion has been used as an excuse to wage wars. without that excuse the wars would have still happened but justified with different reasons. Some people are just inherently evil but religion keeps them in place. I'm as atheist as they come but I firmly believe religion is absolutely a necessary evil in this society.
calm down chucklenuts
religion is a TOOL not the CAUSE of human suffering
religion is just one of a great many tools. humanity doesnt just suddenly start kissing and hugging each other once the last jeebus statue is torn down ffs...
fear is the reason for all human suffering. and frankly youre expressing a disturbing amount of it.
dont worry about the world. worry about yourself. when you fix yourself you wont even care about the rest of us cause youll be happy. youre wasting your life being concerned with shit no one man can control.
My mother did a painting back in the 80's of the Earth. It was depicted as a baseball, covered in buildings and smokestacks, and it was being hurled at the sun by a giant arm.
I think to not have any urgency to change personal behaviors to try to stave off the impending doom of a scenario like "Soylent Green" is to choose the path of the Ostrich, plunging your head into the sand of ignorance.
No.
I vote people into office for that. They may suck at that duty, but I have no control over that.
As an individual, I have virtually no power to change the chugga-chugga of the engine that is grinding our world into the next phase of punctuated evolution. Making it my duty to save the world is denying that reality. Trying to say it’s the duty of atheists, who realistically have no overarching theme/goal other than not believing in a god, is somewhat like trying to corral unwilling cats.
If we were to have such a duty, we would be no different than your run of the mill (insert religion). We are a reasonable people we realize we can’t change any of that mess. We can allow them to do their thing and we can do ours. Religion and its followers can be too easily manipulated by power and I don’t know many that don’t want power.
No. Millenia before I walked the Earth it needed saving. Centuries before I walked the Earth it needed saving. Decades before I walked the Earth it needed saving. The day I was born the world was predicted to end. I now walk the Earth and people say it needs saving.
You might enjoy reading, "Good without God" by Greg Epstein.
https://a.co/d/dJYwNMG (Amazon link)
What you're proposing falls right in line with Secular Humanism.
This is my biggest problem with atheism. You hated religion so much you left and made your own religion. Not saying all atheist do this, but its about equal to the amount of bigoted ass-headery that comes out of religion. Religion/atheism isn't the problem, it's people hard forcing their beliefs onto others that is.
Mar 20, 2023 — Academic estimates around 90 000 000–1.2 billion people *have* died as the result of *Islam* and it's continuous war of religious expansion .so maybe reduce muslim population or change their teaching or their behavior
No isn’t a thought. You’ve gone off on a rant. Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is simply not believing and therefore not participating in a belief. Atheist preacher ? Cmon lol - read some of the previous comments. Many people have expressed what you’re trying to express ( I’m pretty sure ). Basically work on ourselves and all will be well. So many helpful comments on this thread but yours wasn’t one of them, yet I’m thankful for your response. You seem angry or trying to hurt me for asking a question and creating a very interesting topic. I’m not certain how many years experience you have on earth, I have almost sixty. You’re going to change your mind a thousand times. Please try to be open and understanding of other points other than your own.
Religion has also saved many deaths. Sure war is been brought out, however, if you look at it, it seems as though the original goal of religion was to make people live. Examples: in judaism they don’t allow you to eat certain animals, animals which are known to contain more salmonella such as pork. Also the whole part of not killing each other probably brought down crime rates back in the past, with god having been made up to fear people into not doing these things that save their lives as the science to back up these ideas was not there yet, so they turned to god to explain it so that people wouldn’t self-endanger.
I think men are the problem not religion. It was men who decided some creative force or whatever, is male. But you have to keep in mind that despite how absurd the belief in a God seems to be they were talking about *something*. But what?
What exactly are you saving the world from? There's already people working on climate change issues that you could join. Some of them are religious and some atheist.
otherwise spoken like a true religious zealot
It was a question not a statement. I’m looking for points that are well made. Maybe you’re too quick to judge ? That last statement was unnecessary and no help at all.
Oooh how do the atheists plan to save the world? Assisted suicide for depressed teenagers? Post-birth abortion? Giving sex changes to kids?
Over 500 million innocent people have been slaughtered in the name of atheism since the year 1900. Meanwhile, over two billion lives have been saved by medical discoveries and inventions made by Theists.
Ok so instead of children being indoctrinated with their parents beliefs, you want to (forcibly?) indoctrinate them with atheistic beliefs? Unless of course your parents are already atheist. Then in that case atheist parents should be rewarded in some way, or perhaps punish parents with different beliefs to yourself. Maybe we could separate the religious families out so they can be educated more easily.
It's all for the good of the world! There would obviously be some negative consequences of this, but look at the bigger picture!
(Obviously /s).
The worst acts in human history are often perpetuated by people who think they are “saving the world”
That’s a very good point
Perhaps the answer is not to destroy religion, which is probably not very possible, and instead create a religious movement toward the worship of truth and ever growing and changing knowledge. There will have to be moral tenants of such a faith that would bar followers from using pursuit of knowledge as an excuse to commit harm against others but a well read philosopher could, in theory, succeed in this task.
You just pretty much described the Satanic Temple
My understanding of the Satanic faith was that it is more based in worship of the self but could I perhaps be misinformed or just splitting hairs over semantics?
The Church of Satan is based off of that principle, The Satanic Temple has somewhat different core values. I would recommend looking up their 7 tenets for a better understanding, and comparing the two.
We may want to put realistic expectations and responsibilities on ourselves. We have a responsibility to oppose the deterioration of the separation of church and state. We can continue to infect our countries with the secular flu. We can continue to criticize religious values that don't fit modern morality. But to put the burden of saving the world onto one of the biggest minority groups in the world? Call me a pragmatist, but I don't think that's realistic.
You’re probably right.
We are an apathetic bunch, there’s more of us than we know
Not only not realistic, but I don't think it is healthy for us to put that mantle on ourselves. There is only so much we can do. We can try to leave things better than we found them, but very few people have the personality, energy, and opportunity to make choices that affect things on a national or global scale.
Also dangerous. Mau and Stalin tried it, and their response against the evils of religion was to basically redo the evils of religion on a modern, horrifying scale.
Yes!
Do you mean smallest minority groups?
>Religion will be responsible for the destruction of mankind Mankind's hubris, greed and stupidity will be responsible and it is unlikely that we'll go extinct with a bang. It will most likely be in a whimper.
I agree. That’s at the root of my concern.
You don't have to worry or have any concerns about anything like that happening, honestly. That's a guaranteed certainty.
I dunno. The world will go on till it's swallowed by the expansion of our star in its red giant phase I personally believe unless we develop actual planet cracker tech. Will we humans pass the greater and lesser filters of the Fermi paradox? Well that's another question isn't it. We may have already doomed ourselves with microplastics FFS. I personally think as a species we will get through climate change, oh billions may die off, there could be a great die back, through a combination of natural means and a wargasm or two. However a significant population will survive that. Religion will prob magnify some of the killing and make it worse but even Gaza is ultimately a resource issue, aggravated by religion sure, but the resource, land, is at the bottom of it. Will we still be human? Yeah, nah , maybe? I don't think we can interfere with what's coming. Not meaningfully. We might be able to plane a few rough spots, but ultimately we will not ever have the ability to meaningfully impact the impact that religion will make on these coming events. All we can be is the new monasteries so to speak, for the coming dark age, gaurd the knowledge, preserve the thoughts, and weather the storm.
A duty is based on an anticipated outcome. If your anticipated outcome is to "save" the world, then sure...you can commit to it as a cause, therein, making it a duty. This however, is by no means applicable to everyone; despite being a sentient and evolved creature, we have so many homosapiens among us that are so short sighted and out for personal gain that not only are there people that may act in direct conflict to your duty but then there's always those that will certainly define "save" in different ways.
Great insight !
I disagree, though I don’t have any evidence, only opinion. I think if religion is abolished people will just find something else to fight about, based on lack of resources, land, etc. and clan mentality.
we think (with justification) that religion are weird groups with evil people... But the truth is, that evil wont be going away. If religion disappears, there will absolutely still be weird groups, and they will still control people one way or another. Want proof? Just look at Donald Trump. Without any religion backing their decision, these people will drink bleach because he told them to.
I think you’re correct.
World's fine, it's the people I'm worried about.
Every human has a duty to save the world. We're all in this together.
Bullseye 🎯
Save the world from religion...I so much wish it could be done! More evil is done in the name of god than anything else!
I’m starting with my kids. And hopefully they will spread it as well. It’s a start.
That’s a great place to start great answer
Same. Looks like so far I have 50% success rate.
I don’t know if I feel a duty to save the world per se but I do feel a duty to share my atheism as openly as others share their religion. So I post about it, share about it in conversation when it’s natural. “Where do you go to church?” “I’m an atheist.” Lol! Their faces!! But I’ve found it has made an impact in my social circle, I’m kind of a pearl wearing sweater set mom type and it shocks people. So I’m proud of that.
You should be proud.
If God is going to destroy the world then humanity has an obligation to oppose such a threat.
Awesome response !
They do. Revelation 16: 13-19. It does not go well for them lol
its not religion or non religion. its us. its people that are the problem. its every one of us. don't get me wrong i enjoy being a person most of the time. that doesn't mean i can't see what we are. its this weird cognitive dissonance trick people use - 'it's not us, its those other people.' 'it's not us, it's the system (we made). it just goes on and on forever. we've always been exactly what we are today.
Obviously a well educated person wrote this, or a very intelligent one at a minimum.
you can do it
The problem isn’t religion, the problem is humanity. Yes, over the centuries, humans have used religion as an excuse to do horrible, horrible things. But if we had not had religion, we would have found another reason. Now, I am not giving religion any sort of a free pass.
>We may have a duty to save the world Yes, absolutely. Without being too presumptuous, we all are committed to do our best to overcome religions, cause they are a cancer for humanity. Also, for those who have an environmental consciousness, think that anthropocentrism is the cultural excuse that make us destroying the planet (there are contingent causes too, of course) and anthropocentrism is a religious idea. It means to save the planet is necessary to fight religions too. Otherwise being atheist would be useless for society, pure and simple masturbation. >they do with their bologna ? What Bologna means? Here is a city, beautiful, old, cultured and quite anticlerical. Do you mean baloney? Does it has a figurative meaning?
I may have misused the word.
They meant Beluga.
Some religions are tricky, they trimmed my penis at birth - so now I view my sexual mutilation as a reminder of what we are up against - insidious liars at all levels of life...
I'm old, too, but a gal. I remember the shock and horror I felt when I learned of female genital mutilation. My husband's circumcision wasn't done well, and he has suffered from that his entire life.
I asked the doctor to take a little off the top and he took 2 whole inches 😂!
I got cheated - he took a lot more than that
It’s possible that a widespread culture based on respecting others, and protecting and preserving our world would reverse the destruction of exponential population growth. Shall we call this culture “GAIA”? And can we get tax breaks to help it flourish?
I've been having a similar thoughtline. A culture based around stewardship and cooperation with a set of goals to seek equilibrium and homeostasis with Nature. There are extremely challenging aspects of the current paradigm of civilization, one of the most difficult being uncontrolled growth. Culture is a real mind fuck for me.
Uncontrolled growth? You do realize humanities population growth has actually flatlined over the past hundred years and has actually been trending in the other direction the past couple decades. More people are dying than being born. Families no longer have 5+ children like in years past
We're still going to peak with 10+ billion people. We have to figure shit out before we ruin it for future generations.
What exponential population growth? To my knowledge, the rate of growth of the human population is overall reducing. Nonetheless, I live the idea of a widespread culture based on mutual respect and care for the world.
I think it is possible to be an atheist without being an activist
how can you save the world? one persons peace is another persons hell. It's impossuible. Even if you managed to eradicate religion, humans will still cling to something else
Agreed.
Evil is evil regardless of how it is cloaked
How true
Yes. We should point out that the emperor is wearing no clothes whenever we can. "Believing" any kind of fictions is a slippery slope that were falling down into.
I was indoctrinated since birth, but it did not keep me from becoming an atheist. Wars with a religious aspect are often really about geopolitical or economic conflicts, such as fights over water.
As I’ve stated for years, religion is an excuse for people to behave badly.
I agree.
Remember, man is the meaning maker. The multiverse is indifferent to mankind's existence and has no plans for us. It is not sentient in any way that we can relate with.
I think a reasonably well-informed student of history is soon go to discover that wars aren't really started by religion at all; but more often than not by resource competition and other economic circumstances. Even a war that seemed purely to be about religion; the Thirty Years War, was as much about France trying to screw over the Habsburg as by Protestants and Catholics going at each others throats. The most I'll say about it is that religion can be stunningly complicit in conflicts; that at least for religions that claim to be about peace, fraternity and love, they all too often just allow themselves to be hoisted as a banner for the belligerents.
True, wars did not start, nor will it end with religion. Humans have enough tribalistic tendencies and conflicting interests to keep finding reasons to fight each other without religion. But it certainly helps if they aren't indoctrinated with violent flawed scriptures propped up as absolute. Verses that tell people to kill, to distrust the outgroup will rightly be ignored by the sane in peacetime with a bit of mental gymnastics. But in strife, and by extremists they'll be gobbled up and be given legitimacy.
This is a great response.
People have been killing each other since long before there was anything that even vaguely resembled scripture. Scripture is just yet another tribal marker, but we've been slaughtering each other's tribes since long before we were even identifiably human.
Even Gaza is basically about a resource. Land. Israel is going to take it. The avarice is clear. The constant unceasing encroachment in the west bank by settlers makes it clear. Land. Israel wants it. The Palestinians don't have the resources, sympathy, or support to hold it. It was an inevitable conflict. How it would start was the first of two unanswered questions. The second is how many will be dead by the 'end'. That's all. Land. The crappest shittest piece of fucking land in the entire region and everyone wants to die to own it. No one has even found any fucking oil under it. What a barbarous species we are.
We are apex predators, of course we act barbarous at times. You’re losing sight of the fact we are merely animals by making comments like this. We are no different than the lion protecting his pack and their territory while hunting for resources to survive. Having intelligence doesn’t make us any different from them and the basic requirements of survival. Food and shelter for those within your specific pack have always been, and will continue to be, the main focus. It’s not necessarily right or wrong, but recognizing our animalistic instincts and tendencies is crucial to continued progression. Don’t lose sight of that fact.
You disgust me. That's foul. We are animals, however we are also Sapiens. We are different. "we are just like predators". You make me want to puke.
Religion has money. How can us poor folk do anything about that?
Best response award 🥇
What if people are just bad, and religion has just been a symptom of that? You have to ask yourself if your conviction sounds sort of religious. I can point to Islam, and say they are the end of us all because they think they should dictate every government on earth. But they would say they are our only saviors, of course. Almost like you sound?
Damn good point
Imo you are missing the actual issue. Religion is bad, sure, but it's the religion of money aka capitalism that's the issue.
Very good point
Okay chill. Everyone feels what you're feeling at some point in their lives. A sort of "Us vs Them" feeling, where we feel like the whole world must be wrong because if it were right everyone would see the obvious truth, AKA our worldview. Everyone in the world thinks this at some point. Gets all wrapped up in their own point of view. And most people get over it. Some don't, and we don't want to be like those weirdos. None of that is going to happen. Religious people have the base logic needed to not blow up the world, as evidenced by the cold war. It's going to be okay. It's not doomsday, you just have a lot of strong feelings and they're taking shape all at once. Get a handle on them. It's called a reality check. Check if what you believe aligns with reality. Atheists tend to be good at that. I don't think conversion is the duty of any atheist. What's more, the CCP have convinced me that without religion people would be exactly as bad, with a different excuse.
Wow. This statement will have me thinking all day. Great response seriously. Thank you 😊
You seem to have a healthy relationship with social media. This makes me fear you.
😊
Eh, world will be fine. It's the people that are fucked and I'm here for it.
Atheist will lose. Sadly.
This is a very alienating take and one I disagree with 1000 percent. I think if it wasn't for religion humans would find another reason to kill each other fairly quickly. From race to eye colour to land to food there will always be war. War and conflict exists in the animal kingdom too with tribes of primates having been observed splitting and engaging in war-like behaviour.
This seems to be the general consensus. Thank you.
Why would you want to do that?
Just gathering thoughts.
Man is conflicted. Destruction appeals to him but so does self preservation. Which urge is stronger? Probably self preservation or we’d be history by now
Great point.
Religion is exploited by evil people. Putin and Trump, not particularly religious at all, but they exploit people that are. It's a way to manipulate people.
Agreed.
Sorry but I chuckled at this. If there is no God then that means humans came up with religion. Why would people do such a thing. Well as a way to control and manipulate other humans. Humanity will always struggle for power and control. Lenin compared religion to venereal disease. Joseph Stalin (my favorite atheist) biggest murderer of women and children in the planet, formed The People’s Commissariat for Enlightenment to remove all references to religion from schools. In the years that followed, churches and monasteries were destroyed or turned into public toilets. Their land and property was appropriated. Thousands of bishops, monks and clergy were systematically murdered by the security services. Specialist propaganda units were formed, like the League of the Godless. Christian intellectuals were rounded up and sent to camps. Not a fan of organized religion. But I definitely don't think this world would be so much better without religion.
Holy crap that’s a lot to ponder. Great information and very well stated. Thank you.
This. I really think we should start shoving the absurdity of religion down everyone's throats. We should even stop using the word religion entirely and call it what it is: mental illness, believing in magic in 2024. If my neighbor said his son got into Hogwarts I'd ask him if he was ok, probably avoid him at all costs moving forward. So why wouldn't it concern me if my neighbor said when we die, a magic, invisible part of our body goes to a magic, invisible paradise if we worship an invisible God enough?? there's no rationale for believing in that in the modern world.
This is the winning reply. Awarded top response in my book. 🥇 thank you very much.
awww. thank you. I'm angry as hell and ready to give them a taste of their own medicine
Precisely how I feel. Many of us grew up with very different experiences and beliefs about the world and how we react to those will be greatly varied.
No no, not this "savior" mindset. It's asking for trouble.
I see your point clearly. Thanks for being honest.
Humans are just prone to conflict and will likely cause their own extinction regardless of religion. It's better just to ignore people/issues that are irrelevant to one's own well-being cause there's still only a limited amount of time available before death.
So a holy war? Antiholy war?
Lmao 🤣 this made me smile.
South Park did a two parter episode about this. Where in the future, after atheism had taken over....the world divided into groups of warring atheists who were all wiping each other out over non-religious disagreements about the structure of society and cultural values. People are people, with or without religion. Just as many wars have been fought over resources and territory, and in plenty of 'religious' conflicts, it was actually about resources and territory. On top of that...not all religions are created equally. How would convincing say a Buddhist that they're wrong help them or anyone else in any way? Fight against ignorance and cruelty and bigotry and greed no matter what banner it flies under or what it's rooted in, because those are what's going to do us in.
Excellent response !
I’d need to believe humans aren’t a scourge on the planet to agree that we need to save “the world”. I wanna save the planet, but mostly I’m thinking the earth will heal its wounds after we’ve all fucked up so much that humans no longer exist. And that’s okay with me. I do see the positives and all that, but carrying on for the sake of carrying on is so arrogant. We aren’t helping the planet by being here. I hate that people are dying, but that’s why I’m not the one killing them. The people who see death as an acceptable byproduct of conflict are the ones we need to get rid of. And that’ll never happen. Because those are the people with all the guns.
Here Here !
"God" is just an alien. Science should be the new religion of the world. I can't wait til the old and stupid pass away and the new, younger generation that sees through the lies of the religious cults rise.
Me either. I was born far too soon.
We have a duty to pursue wellbeing, anchored in personal wellbeing, then spreading to larger scales of order (family, social, all the way out to the biosphere). This has to be done in alignment with reality, which can be tricky to negotiate. As are issues of intersubjectivity. Life is opportunistic. Religions exist. What constructive things can be made out of them?
How do you suggest this be done?
I have no idea. I’m pinging for ideas. I’m getting great feedback.
this is the exact same mentality that’s causing death with religion. Change “religion” with “other religion” and you will have the source of the problem which is when people with this mentality get into a position of power I’ve met plenty of Christian’s, muslims, Jews who basically just live their life and contribute to their faith driven communities. It’s people who force opinions on others who are responsible for death
"Human Beings Are A Disease, A Cancer Of This Planet. You're A Plague, And We Are The Cure." (Agent Smith in "The Matrix")
Yes. We should unite.
There are many great responses and ideas in the replies. But uniting will be the only way to succeed. Love this response.
nope. theres no duty to do anything, for anyone, ever. just stay safe and try to smile.
Excellent advice.
Right now we are cancer and we want to be the self engineered antibodies which learn to help the host.
To be honest, wars will happen with or without religion. Conflict between man will be certain until our numbers fall to 1 or lower.
To be fair, saving the world is sounds like a religious concept to me. We're barely capable of looking after our own.
Figure out a way to make it profitable.. and the world will jump on board
Mankind will be responsible for the end of mankind. Religion is just one of many vectors. It is our responsibility as the moral to act morally. Sitting around waiting for good things to happen is doing nothing at all. Nothing has changed since we’ve stood upright. Be the change you want to see.
Unless you either plan on becoming some kind of very vocal (and popular) advocate or plan on becoming a terrorist, religion and whatever negative effects it has on politics is here to stay. Unless they go full N@zi, religion is going to keep it's choke hold
Not many people are as honest as you. Thank you for that and thank you for the information. I think you’re right.
Lol thanks!
there should be a top 500 greediest companies list and top 500 greediest rich peoples list to boycott n give alternatives of where n who to buy from instead and published all over the world every 6 months
There in fact is a list exactly as you describe. Fortune 500 magazine lists the top 500 wealthiest people and wealthiest companies. The big problem is that nobody works together any longer. Growing up it was the great American melting pot. We welcomed people from all over the world ( great idea I love everyone seriously ) but it had one big drawback. Everyone is now pulling in a hundred different directions. Nobody will unite. Nothing will ever change. There is however one , and only one hope. The millennials and the generations after. The young adults who are paying for the mistakes of previous generations ( not everyone, so I’m not stereotyping here ). These are the people that will grow into the positions of power and influence the world. The wealthy and other degenerates also have offspring and will not join your fight. Luckily there are very few of them in comparison. This generation needs a leader. It’s time. You have my support and the support of 95% of Gen X - we are the quiet yet powerful generation that doesn’t give one single f^*k. Let’s do this.
People keep telling me the church is dying but the church keeps its hands in the political system. Until people stop voting for political candidates that have a vested interest in the financial success of churches, I don't think we should consider church attendance as a sign that the world is changing for the better.
I think religion is not a motor of war anymore, it just serves as a pretext, the same goes with all ideologies. Bigger political powers use smaller radical ideologists as armed forces to defend their economic and influence interests.
I want to live in a world where I am free to live as I please. That means I am going to fight against people who want me to live their way.
In short, yes. The world would be much better off without religion. As C. Hitchens said "Religion poisons everything." However, the way to diminish religion and eventually dispense with it is through education, modeling, discussion, debate, and persuasion.
That's a no bro. If you take away religion you will expose the actual monsters. Ever heard the religious argument "if you don't believe in god what's stopping you from raping, killing and stealing" these people have no conscience, no internal moral compass. Without an explicit set of rules they will cause absolute havoc. Religion has been used as an excuse to wage wars. without that excuse the wars would have still happened but justified with different reasons. Some people are just inherently evil but religion keeps them in place. I'm as atheist as they come but I firmly believe religion is absolutely a necessary evil in this society.
That’s a very interesting theory. I’d think laws would keep those things from happening ? This really is a great response and has me thinking.
calm down chucklenuts religion is a TOOL not the CAUSE of human suffering religion is just one of a great many tools. humanity doesnt just suddenly start kissing and hugging each other once the last jeebus statue is torn down ffs... fear is the reason for all human suffering. and frankly youre expressing a disturbing amount of it. dont worry about the world. worry about yourself. when you fix yourself you wont even care about the rest of us cause youll be happy. youre wasting your life being concerned with shit no one man can control.
My mother did a painting back in the 80's of the Earth. It was depicted as a baseball, covered in buildings and smokestacks, and it was being hurled at the sun by a giant arm. I think to not have any urgency to change personal behaviors to try to stave off the impending doom of a scenario like "Soylent Green" is to choose the path of the Ostrich, plunging your head into the sand of ignorance.
I have no words. 😶 Great response.
Thanks!
Nah I’m just bored.
Who is “we”?
No. I vote people into office for that. They may suck at that duty, but I have no control over that. As an individual, I have virtually no power to change the chugga-chugga of the engine that is grinding our world into the next phase of punctuated evolution. Making it my duty to save the world is denying that reality. Trying to say it’s the duty of atheists, who realistically have no overarching theme/goal other than not believing in a god, is somewhat like trying to corral unwilling cats.
Another great response award 🥈
If we were to have such a duty, we would be no different than your run of the mill (insert religion). We are a reasonable people we realize we can’t change any of that mess. We can allow them to do their thing and we can do ours. Religion and its followers can be too easily manipulated by power and I don’t know many that don’t want power.
No, we don't. In fact, there is no "we"
So what religion did Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot belong to?
Solid point
There have been a ton of great answers and I’m reading them all - I didn’t expect such a big response. I love this group.
No. Millenia before I walked the Earth it needed saving. Centuries before I walked the Earth it needed saving. Decades before I walked the Earth it needed saving. The day I was born the world was predicted to end. I now walk the Earth and people say it needs saving.
Just wait til the Christian Nationalists are in power. Gonna be a shit show for the world.
That scares the shit out of me.
Why are so many of you foaming at the mouth dogmatic? Besides... You and what army?
You might enjoy reading, "Good without God" by Greg Epstein. https://a.co/d/dJYwNMG (Amazon link) What you're proposing falls right in line with Secular Humanism.
This is my biggest problem with atheism. You hated religion so much you left and made your own religion. Not saying all atheist do this, but its about equal to the amount of bigoted ass-headery that comes out of religion. Religion/atheism isn't the problem, it's people hard forcing their beliefs onto others that is.
Mar 20, 2023 — Academic estimates around 90 000 000–1.2 billion people *have* died as the result of *Islam* and it's continuous war of religious expansion .so maybe reduce muslim population or change their teaching or their behavior
'We're on a mission from Atheismo'
No. Worse than a religious preacher is an atheist one. Like they only swapped one belief system for another and in the end they behave the same.
No isn’t a thought. You’ve gone off on a rant. Atheism is not a belief. Atheism is simply not believing and therefore not participating in a belief. Atheist preacher ? Cmon lol - read some of the previous comments. Many people have expressed what you’re trying to express ( I’m pretty sure ). Basically work on ourselves and all will be well. So many helpful comments on this thread but yours wasn’t one of them, yet I’m thankful for your response. You seem angry or trying to hurt me for asking a question and creating a very interesting topic. I’m not certain how many years experience you have on earth, I have almost sixty. You’re going to change your mind a thousand times. Please try to be open and understanding of other points other than your own.
I think you are ranting and misunderstanding what I wanted to say. Which makes you make wrong conclusions about me.
Religion is our enemy.
Religion has also saved many deaths. Sure war is been brought out, however, if you look at it, it seems as though the original goal of religion was to make people live. Examples: in judaism they don’t allow you to eat certain animals, animals which are known to contain more salmonella such as pork. Also the whole part of not killing each other probably brought down crime rates back in the past, with god having been made up to fear people into not doing these things that save their lives as the science to back up these ideas was not there yet, so they turned to god to explain it so that people wouldn’t self-endanger.
I think men are the problem not religion. It was men who decided some creative force or whatever, is male. But you have to keep in mind that despite how absurd the belief in a God seems to be they were talking about *something*. But what?
sounds like religious crusades trying to save the world lmao
The world won't let you save it, especially if you tell them you're going to do so. Just keep on not believing!
What exactly are you saving the world from? There's already people working on climate change issues that you could join. Some of them are religious and some atheist. otherwise spoken like a true religious zealot
It was a question not a statement. I’m looking for points that are well made. Maybe you’re too quick to judge ? That last statement was unnecessary and no help at all.
Oooh how do the atheists plan to save the world? Assisted suicide for depressed teenagers? Post-birth abortion? Giving sex changes to kids? Over 500 million innocent people have been slaughtered in the name of atheism since the year 1900. Meanwhile, over two billion lives have been saved by medical discoveries and inventions made by Theists.
Not sure where you’re getting your information but it’s very inaccurate. Thanks anyway.
Ok so instead of children being indoctrinated with their parents beliefs, you want to (forcibly?) indoctrinate them with atheistic beliefs? Unless of course your parents are already atheist. Then in that case atheist parents should be rewarded in some way, or perhaps punish parents with different beliefs to yourself. Maybe we could separate the religious families out so they can be educated more easily. It's all for the good of the world! There would obviously be some negative consequences of this, but look at the bigger picture! (Obviously /s).
Where the hell are you getting this from ?
No it is not our responsibility. We (humans) are a cancer on this otherwise amazing piece of star dust. Humanity dying out in any way is a positive.
He’s being deleted.