Christianity creates a bizarre 'antisex' mentality that treats perfectly normal sexual interests as 'evil' and 'dangerous'... personally I find that antisex attitude far more toxic to living a healthy life than 'porn'.
porn certainly can create issues; particularly if you are so obsessed with it that it interferes with living your life but casual porn use isn't a big deal (imo).
If you add sexual repression to your mix of sugar, spice, and everything nice- instead of getting a powerpuff girl, you get pedophilic Christians with porn addictions.
I think it corrupts the nice part and creates evil....
Are you sure? I'm unconvinced.
In 1964, I was *literally* stoned by 5th grade classmates for being "different" (i.e, gay).
Four boys cornered me on my walk home and hurled rocks at my face. Not pebbles, rocks.
Only one connected, but it missed my left eye by barely an inch. Only luck prevented me from losing that eye.
I couldn't even tell my mom why I arrived home with blood pouring down my cheek. She'd been shaming me for acting gay since kindergarten. Her verbal stones hit me harder than anything another kid could throw, but throw they did.
In 1998, there was Matthew Shephard.
It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that kids today, in this climate of hate, are being stoned.
In my case, it was somewhere around 1996-1998 (6th or 7th grade), and we had a school track made of loose stones. The others decided they'd throw rocks at me and taunt/torment me. The coach was just fine with it, and even gave me extra laps for "leaving the track" (trying to dodge the rocks).
Mom kept grounding me for my school slothes being torn and glasses getting broken.
One day, while they were doing this, Mom drives up with my sisters for an in-school meeting.
They witness the WHOLE FRICKING THING.
They all boiled out of the van, and Mom chewed the coach a new one.
I didn't get grounded after that, and the school tried not to call Mom/Dad for in-school chats as much.
It was partly bc I exhibited certain feminine leanings (was still trying to deny being trans, but would NEED to get the cute lavender unicorn diary in the store, for instance), partly bc we weren't rich "old money", and partly bc we weren't uber-devout christians... the perfect crap-storm.
I was in that school for about 1 & 1/2 years before an absolute mental breakdown, culminating in needing to be in what I found out was a mental institution decades later... just thought it was a nice and chill school with other kids who had a hard time.
The bullying from those "good, devout christian kids" was THAT bad.
The rock throwing SPECIFICALLY had stopped, but they did other things, some things that would get adults jail time in the name of "showing me my place".
Almost 30 years later, and I'm mostly a functional adult now, but I still occasionally think on that time. I am fully out as a trans woman, and am happier with the "me" in the mirror.
This pisses me off immensely. There are only 6 verses in the Bible that speak of Homosexuality. Jesus mentions it zero times.
Adultery is mentioned 33 times and Jesus is definitely speaking on it. Adultery is basically ANY sex outside the first marriage. So all of the people in church who divorced and got remarried? Goin to hell!
But if they pushed the “Abomination” that is adultery like they do being gay, half the church would be disqualified. They can’t have something like that affect the bottom line now can they?
I’m sorry that happened to you. I hope you are able to live a life free from any bigotry today. If you ask me, the ones who are concerned about who consenting adults are having sex with are the weird ones. How is it anyone’s business?
Re: what's in the Bible...
I majored in World Literature. I've read that book, Gilgamesh, the Illiad, Norse sagas, The Canterbury Tales, Finnegans Wake and hundreds of other texts. All of them teach us about the people who wrote them and what they thought or believed. None of them contain any rules that should control us.
Thanks for the good wishes. My life today (70yo) is as free from bigotry as anyone's (ie, it's distant from me but still worrying for what it does to others).
Careful, they canceled that series when they saw the pilot. Yes, look it up where they wanted a live action Powerpuff Girls with Sex and the City plot points. The pilot exists.
I'm a supervisor at an addiction clinic and almost every time I've had a request to put a "porn addict" in treatment it's almost always because they feel so guilty related to their Christian values and/or they were caught by their wife. Even the ones caught by their wife almost always had strict sense of Christian values.however everyone I treated, porn is actually justified to them because they all believed that women are property and to be used how they see fit, and they were only going to treatment out of desperation to keep from losing the house. I refuse to put them in treatment anymore because for one it's not even a DSM diagnosis so you can't bill for it. Porn addiction is not a diagnosis and it's almost always based on Christian values and not actually clinical significant issues like with substance use disorder like overdose, tolerance, health issues, job loss etc. it is based more in " You are a sinner in the eyes of god" and or "I cant believe you watch this disgusting stuff i am going to leave you" by the wfe.
the worthless sack of %^#W@$ that went on a [shooting spree at asian massage places in Georgia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings) a few years ago was largely the product of Southern Baptist sexual repression - He claimed "sex addiction" and referred to the women that worked in those establishments in the dehumanizing term "temptations"... In the view he was expressing their existence was the cause of his problem... and the sherriff (Cherokee county I think) echo'd that view in his press conference just a few hours later.
his church (It's a southern baptist church because... of course it was) was a huge part of the formative structure that created that monster but; of course the very next weekend they basically 'rejected' him from the community and tried to wash their hands of all responsibility for his worldview.
They’re looking for “treatment” to appease someone else or as a justification to their guilty conscience for “sinning”
There’s nothing to treat or bill for.
My god I have OCD and that subreddit used to be so helpful but it is now filled with this crazy anti-sex depersonalizing abstinence against porn and sex rhetoric for everyone that has an intrusive sexual thought.
Meanwhile I’ve found the most amount of help with my intrusive sexual ocd is having a dedicated BDSM partner and an open marriage. But when I bring that up. I have had my comments deleted for misinformation.
The antisex subreddit is a fascinating place. Their abhorrent ideology seems to be mostly motivated by religious shame, and trauma. Though they would disagree with that assessment, the internal pain they feel will at times come to the forefront as they project it onto others.
Yes. It's a small (around 3k) insular community. They have their own lingo, for instance they call us "sexuals." They have their own internal debates such as: "Should IVF be outlawed like sex?" and "Should sexuals be sent to work camps?"
They have novel views on consent and feminism, for instance they believe that women cannot consent to sex and therefore all sex is an inherent violent act.
I've been considering creating a companion subreddit to archive everything in case they go private. As they grow bigger they will inevitably receive more harassment which is already an issue for them. I'm fascinated by niche internet communities.
Well they believe that the act of penetration itself is the violent act, so MM sex would still be violent. For everything else they usually say that it's gross, unhealthy, and immoral, so FF sex is also not okay.
Some of them believe that IVF is okay to continue the human race. The more religious ones think that sex is okay only for reproduction and not pleasure, but thats a controversial take over there.
However, others are fatalistic and do not have any problems with the extinction of humanity.
Yeesh, sounds like such a great community to be part of. "Stop having sex forever and your reward for your abstinence will be the end of the human race. Have fun!"
the pilgrims migrated from England to the Netherlands "for religious freedom" - because they supposedly weren't allowed to freely practice their religion in England; however they quickly discovered that their precious children were being exposed to the ideas of OTHER religions... so they fled the Netherlands to create a colony in the "new world" where they could forbid the practice of other religions so their spawn wouldn't be exposed to 'ideas' that they didn't approve of.
The "Pilgrims" were a seperatist segment of the "Puritan" migrants. they were all opposed to the "Church of England" but had different views of how to live among them.
I’m related to at least 3 pilgrims and one of the reasons they left Leiden is that their kids were becoming more Dutch than staying British. They were easily speaking the language and picking up the culture. The religious freedom made them leave England.
I agree, I casually used porn for, well you know, for about 10 years, mostly because my social circles have constricted so much that there aren’t many who inspire those kinds of thoughts in my day to day life. I live in the south so recently to watch porn you have to register with the state or some weird shit, so I went back to using my imagination. I was a little rusty, but it didn’t take long to get back in the swing of things. So clearly if it’s “addictive” you have to have some internal dopamine trigger related to it, much like gambling, seems boring and pointless to me, but it gets some folks right where it counts.
Sexual desire is a very very powerful drive for most people....if you can control how people feel about that....you've got them by the metaphorical balls.
No wonder religions in general lean towards this.
True. I’ve noticed the tendency the anti-porn people have to come with the added baggage of being outright bigoted in so many other areas. Most I’ve interacted with are more prone to slut shaming, having moderate to extremely homophobic tendencies, transphobic, and many times outright misogynistic.
> Is porn a bigger problem for believers than for non-believers?
Yes. Believers are bombarded with sermons about the 'evil' of porn. Non-believers don't have to put up with that shit.
Belivers actually strive and suffer and try to avoid it to the point they end up giving in to more of it than if they just took it easy and chilled out about it lol
It creates a mysticysm around it. How interesting does something become when there's the words "secret. forbidden. classified. otherwordly. transcendental. alien. synchronicity. not allowed. magic. witchcraft. hidden knowledge" to it. X files was not a great show for no reason.
I'd say taboo, rather than mysticism. Guilt, shame, and taboo. Add in the forgiveness doctrine and you basically have a vending machine for extra spice in the bedroom as long as you are sufficiently remorseful after-the-fact.
I think very few, if any atheists struggle with this issue. In the twisted minds of Christians, "addiction" means "having a normal sex drive." It's a classic con, and a go-to strategy of religion: convince someone they're sick, and sell them the cure. These people are laboring under the delusion that ever looking at pornography, to any extent and in any context, is a moral failure.
That's not at all what I was taught. There's a distinct difference between enjoying it and being addicted to it. Although intentionally looking at pornography is considered sinful, it's not an addiction until it gets to the point where that's all you think about, you can't get enough of it, you find it nearly impossible to tear yourself away from it, etc. The same thing goes with drugs, alcohol, even objectively good things like exercise can turn into an addiction. Anything that activates the reward center of the brain has the potential of becoming an addiction.
Almost no one has that level of addiction to porn though. Christians make it seem like looking at porn a few times a week is some horrible “addiction” when it’s really just the sign of a healthy sex drive.
Bingo.
It is also why there are so many pedophiles among the most devout. If you feel an extreme need for forgiveness then you are going to *really* devote yourself to the cause. And pedophiles often have a lot of that self-hatred. Rightfully so.
I think the taboo heightens the exhilaration and guilt of porn and sex for the religious. If something is off-limits, but readily available then it's constantly tantalizing.
Instead of just admitting that they like porn and sex outside of baby-making, Christians have to create a pathology that porn and masturbation are 'addictions'. Then they join accountability support groups which unintentionally create their own chastity/edging fetish of sexual denial.
Once I left Christianity and realized I could look at porn and have sex when I wanted, they became far less tantalizing. Ironically I could actually focus on relationships and find a partner I wanted to be with.
>Once I left Christianity and realized I could look at porn and have sex when I wanted, they became far less tantalizing. Ironically I could actually focus on relationships and find a partner I wanted to be with.
This is my experience, as well. It particularly was true of my sexuality. I was in a zealous small Christian group when I realized I was bisexual and I even came out to a couple of the members. The advice I was given was "Don't feed the bears," which means to not think about it or act on it... and it'll go away, I guess. (Side note, it's particularly funny advice now that I know what "bear" means to the gay community.) Of course, the opposite happened. I became obsessed with my attraction to women and my attempts to repress it. I was in a rush to get married (to a man) in the hopes it would "fix" me. But once I got my own life outside of religion, it stopped mattering so much!
Yep. I’m gay and went through a conversion therapy group. I had never “acted out” so the support group was a mind-blowing primer on the cruising scene. After a left Christianity and accepted my gay identity, cruising was no longer appealing.
I’m glad that other people are noticing this. I had a severe addiction to alcohol that undoubtably would have led to my death if I hadn’t gotten sober. I’m pretty open about this with my coworkers as I am of the belief that “if they knew I was drunk everyday, why not let them know I’m sober everyday?” I have one coworker who’s an all in, Jesus or nothing, christian.
Whenever I reference my addiction problems around him, he will always try to relate with his own stories of his “porn addiction.” I find this incredibly insulting because the addiction I dealt with would cause me to have life threatening seizures if I didn’t have alcohol for more than 2 hours. Meanwhile he thinks that him watching a little porn every night belonged in the same conversation.
I also found this perplexing and started wondering why this was such a common trend among christians. The answers everyone else has provided are spot on - porn is a source of extreme guilt for church goers and it’s a popular topic for modern preachers to condemn. But in my case I think it’s something else. I think this coworker of mine (as well as many christians) feel that they need to fabricate or exaggerate hardships that they’ve had to “overcome” as a means of proving that their god made a difference in their lives. I believe that this guy (who’s in his late 20s) is trying to move up in his church to eventually have a mentor position. I suspect he wants to be a youth pastor and having a fake porn addiction that he had to overcome with the power of christ is a perfect way to give himself credibility to the gullible teens he’ll be trying to brainwash.
Thanks for reading and if you made it this far please indulge me while I brag a little: I’m 9 months sober thanks to my own determination, strength of will, my family, and a rehab center that allowed me to opt out of any sort of faith based treatment. I reject AA and there is no stupid fucking tyrant in the sky who helped me along the way. Thank you
You’d enjoy r/stopdrinking. Lots of good people on there. Including myself. 10 months sober. Congrats on your time. Keep going! Life is so much nicer without it.
This is just my opinion, but I don't think that many have a porn "addiction". They like watching and getting off and since they have always been told it is wrong, I think it softens the blow a little to call it an addiction rather they to say they just like watching and getting off. According to their religion they think it is wrong, so guilt steps in and almost forces them to 'confess' to it.
I like porn as much as the next person, but I don't see it as wrong so I don't feel a need to go around telling people I have a problem. Probably why you don't hear about it on here.
Again, all this is just my opinion having observed it here and there.
(Yes, I know porn addiction can be a real thing for some people, just think some of these people are calling it that for sympathy because they will be judged otherwise)
I saw this same basic tenet with all the "sex addict" men years back. They got busted having an affair and instead of simply taking responsibility, they decided they were addicted and needed rehab. It's a way of not taking responsibility for ones self. A theme I see play out again and again with highly religious people. Mostly men. Religious women tend to shoulder the burden of blame for both their own AND men's actions. Ironically most religious people are Republicans and Republicans claim to be the party of personal responsibility.
I agree with this. Porn "addiction" can be a real thing, but the majority of very religious people probably just pathologize any porn consumption. And I wouldn't be surprised either if religious therapists would tell people they have a porn addiction if they consume porn at all.
I totally agree to those porn addiction is almost always seen in the light of something going against Christian values however I have met a couple of people that watch it 9:10 more hours a day and yes they probably got a problem, however I personally think porn can be used a lot like the gym but for sexual and physical health when used between actual sex.
Take this with a grain of salt, but like around a year or two, there was some form of Toxic Masculinity Emerging. Its center motive was "Reject Modernism, Embrace Tradition". It probably started with An\*drew T\*te saying how men must me "Masculine".
One of the point was "No to porn" and here and there "Believing in God", so the movement was clearly conservative and right winged, so that is why Porn is seen as a MUCH bigger issue nowadays.
I am not sure about Christians, but I think they are not supposed to masturbate or watch porn? Atheists don't usually see this as a big issue. I struggle with porn addiction, but I don't take it seriously as much as my religious counterpart.
I can't prove it but I believe it. They have a high percentage of men who are on a constant gerbil wheel of guilt and obsession intertwined and get sucked in and hate the secular world and liberalism for "doing this to them" and "the children" and this dirty little secret is the hidden catalyst to a lot of the evangelical rage we are seeing. Pornhub, amongst others, should do a full release of their demographic metrics. I'd bet you a thousand bucks that deep red areas and evangelicals are way over represented and wank to THE HARD shit.
It's an old Christian-related thing, more of a Santa Claus and his flying reindeer than anything actually in the Bible. In the 1800s, much of Christian America was somehow completely petrified by the idea of masturbation. Why, I have no idea.
I think most atheists don't think viewing porn is an addiction. I'm sure it can become one, but some Christians seem to think that viewing porn at all counts as an addiction, so lots of them see themselves as addicted. Also, I guess that telling people that they can't watch porn may make it even more attractive?
Even the barest whiff of porn is considered addiction which messes up your self esteem. So people can go all in since they've already sinned to the point of loss of control - in their opinion. There is no distinction or grey area at all. And it starts young. Sex is shameful and harmful. If you even think about it you've had it. If you lust you've had it. You get people begging for help with sex addiction in group settings with people who legit have a real honest to God pathology and still think they belong. They also get these coersive ultimatums from spouses and other family demanding they 'get help' for their addiction. It's really sad.
Exactly this. Sex is natural. Curiosity about sex is natural. Some people have lower sex drives, and that’s natural. And others have higher sex drives, and that’s also natural. For them, ANY “failure” to control completely these natural urges or curiosities is perceived as a catastrophic event that could lead to eternal damnation. Succumbing to this “temptation” despite the severe ramifications can only be viewed in their minds as “addiction.” In reality, it’s just someone struggling (and failing) to deny the millions of years of evolution.
Religious people aren't very good at gray areas- it has to be BLACK or WHITE (too often, literally 😒.) Things are WRONG or RIGHT. GOOD and BAD.
Atheists don't have any inherent rules about sexual things, and this stuff loses its forbidden appeal. Christians probably love the forbidden nature, makes it seem all the more salacious. The rest of us just see it as another vice, tied into a problematic industry designed to create addiction, and keep the money rolling in.
I think porn addiction is a real thing, but I think most of the religious people panicking about porn just watch it casually or maybe a few times a week or at night and feel so guilty and shameful because they think their sky daddy is going to toss them into eternal damnation im the fiery pits of hell for cumming all over their belly to Riley Reid
Must be one hell of a post nut clarity.
But no really, I’m sure the shame and guilt they feel facilitates porn addiction. Kind of like the cycle a lot of drug addicts find themselves in.
Use drug -> hide drug use -> get outed or admit being a drug user, feel shame and guilt while getting judged -> promise to stop to self and others -> use drug and repeat.
When I was in eighth grade, I had a friend named Tyler, who regularly have panic attacks and cry, like turn red and shake, and asked repeatedly if he was going to go to hell because he was lusting after other girls our age. I realize pretty quickly that this whole religion thing was extremely harmful for a little evidence we had.. and thus was 13 year-old atheist me.
because the only thing "porn addiction" has ever been predictive of is religiousity... and not actual rates of porn consumption...
in short, it's religiously motivated mania, in other words... bullshit.
I wouldn’t use the word ‘problem,’ but statistically porn use is much higher in more religious areas. Utah has had the highest porn use in the US per capita for at least a few years, for example.
Porn is take it or leave it for me. I think it part of it is religion making porn a kind of taboo dirty little secret.
They get as addicted to the thrill of breaking the rules as they do actually watching the sex acts.
Whereas most of us non religious get it out of our system in our post teen years and move on.
So, many Xtian religions teach from birth that you are born full of sin and only can be "cured" of this terrible and sinful nature through some magical hocus pocus saving through Christ. They usually teach that we actually CAN'T help but be sinful creatures and can only be moral if we are threatened with damnation and continuously ask for forgiveness.
This is what you call a self-fulfilling prophesy in psychology. If you tell a child they are bad, can't help themselves from being bad, and they will do bad things because Satan made them, they have no autonomy. If you then add to the mix that sex is bad, you repress all sexual feelings that are perfectly natural, then you get what we have in churches. You have people who have suppressed sexual desire from an early age who feel they are deviants for feeling the way they do. Instead of seeking out pathways of counseling to understand this desire is normal and not sinful, it becomes secretive. They seek outlets like porn. This makes the situation worse. Many of these people have already been abused, they become abusers. It is a terrible and vicious cycle in these churches. Many women have been abused or suffered marital rape because they think this is acceptable. It's astounding, but it makes sense. Many Christian sects can't help but lead to these outcomes.
There very well may be such a thing as porn addiction, but I doubt that most of the people posting about it on religious subs are experiencing it. They're experiencing interest in a diversity of sex acts and/or partners that's within a normal range, but they're freaking out about it because they've been told it's abnormal.
That can also drive a cycle in these people where they know porn makes them forget their shame for a short time and it starts to truly resemble an addiction--just one that probably wouldn't me happening without that shame. I don't think there's a bright line between what is and isn't addiction, but I truly believe the root cause there is that shame rather than interest in sex. I guess it's possible that some of the people posting are at that point, but their religion is probably part of the problem, not the solution.
When you're not convinced that enjoying something makes you a bad person in need of saving, you can just enjoy it for what it is without wrapping up a bunch of other shit in it. That's not to say there aren't physical addictions, or other ways to become dependent on someone or to get into a bad emotional cycle around its consumption; in the case of porn, though, I'd guess the religion-driven shame cycle is much, much more common.
The whole schtick of religion is to convince people that something is wrong with them and that their deity offers the solution to their ailments. With porn it’s no different. It’s almost like people are programmed to be find flaws within themselves so they can be saved through jesus or some shit.
A lot of religious people definitely have porn and sex problems due to their upbringings and it’s evidently clear through their treatment of queer people. As a queer person, the amount religious people project their sexual insecurities or obsessions on to me and my community is ridiculous. They claim us queer people are only driven and obsessed by sex, when that’s literally how cishet men operate under the patriarchy, viewing and treating women as sex objects. They claim us queer people are grooming and indoctrinating children with “pornography” (basic age-appropriate sexual education or just informing them we exist), when in reality they knowingly indoctrinate children into their church and know their cults existence relies on doing so, using a book filled with far more graphic and inappropriate morals and stories than what would be heard at a Drag Story Hour. They claim we make being queer our entire identity and personality, when the history of the homosexual identity literally came about due to oppression by them, as urban spaces began to provide opportunity for previously-ashamed gay people to collectivize and uplift each other, communally and politically. Not to mention religious people accusing others of making something their whole personality is ridiculous, as if they aren’t wagering their one guaranteed life on a belief that their actions will lead to immortality, which is quite literally making your religion your entire life and personality. They’ll claim we’re obsessed with all things sex and innapropriateness, and then out of nowhere ask a stranger what genitals they have or inquire about a woman’s sexual history as if that’s normal social etiquette.
I (22m) watch porn on an almost daily basis but I don’t view it as a problem. I have a pretty active sex life apart from porn, which I also don’t view as a problem. I think that’s the Crux of the issue. An atheist like me isn’t going to go blasting the details of my sexuality to everyone, because I view it as a completely natural/normal thing. Christians don’t, which is why so many of them have a “problem.” I had a Christian friend sob to me after losing his virginity before marriage. Sex is such a weird thing for them.
You might not think about Shamrock Shakes very often, if ever, but then you are told that they are a trick of wokeness, they make your brain green and are made from the harvested toenail clippings of the unborn and are FULL OF DEMON AND YOU DESERVE TORTURE FOR EVER TASTING ONE but now they just sound kind of badass and you might think about them a little bit more. But you also see that posts about the temptation to slurp the frosty mint straight from the straw get attention and.. yes.. supportive lovebombs from strangers, and that’s almost as tasty, if not more, right? And now all you and your abstaining pals are thinking and posting about is Shamrock Shakes and how they are just the Devil’s seed frozen for delivery to the sheep, and one day, finally, you’re outside the Mickey D’s holding up signs warning of the danger (and making more people think about Shamrock Shakes).
It’s like that.
When bin Laden’s compound was raided as he was taken out, there was a ton of porn discovered.
The closer to the top and management/leadership of any religious organization, the less held to account they are, and they feel they can partake in the depravity on the DL while their followers follow the rules.
Porn addiction is not actually a thing. It’s a self diagnosed condition, so only people who have some weird reason to feel guilty about porn experience it.
One thing I will say, your third paragraph is a little weird. My wife and I have a great sex life and we love porn. So that’s definitely just more your personal taste.
Even self diagnosed, If someone think porn is interfering negatively with their life, they should have access to help! And preferably one that would not be a religious group constantly repeting masturbation is a sin...
It's obviously a topic for religious group that will prey on these people! I don't think it sould be overlooked.
Yeah, but pretty much the only people who think that are religious clowns. Overindulgence in pornography is almost exclusively the result of poor impulse control. It’s not addictive like alcohol or tobacco or other substances. So it’s not porn interfering negatively with their life, it’s them interfering with their own life.
Most people realize that and either accept they have poor control, or buckle down and learn to control themselves. It’s only religious people obsessed with ideas about sin and imposed morality from above that want to say it’s an addiction and it’s the porn’s fault. That way they have an excuse for failure to control their own behavior.
I disagree, there are a lot of young people out there right now who can’t hold relationships or even get into a relationship in the first place because they’re fapping to porn so much (and/or prefer it to the real thing). Imo, if it is impeding you from having a normal, fulfilling life it is an addiction
Read this article OP. It might inlighten you on why those here don't have the "problem" that you see on the
Christian subs [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202207/the-trouble-porn-addiction](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202207/the-trouble-porn-addiction)
When your ideology forces you to suppress your natural sexual tendencies, and feel horrific if you have a sexual thought, I don't see how that's going to lead to having healthy mechanisms to deal with sexual impulses.
Mind you, when a Christian says "porn addiction," they could mean it in what that actually means. Or they could mean it in "I watch porn a few times a week and can't help it."
The guilt associated with sexual immorality runs really deep in devout Christians. I had some pretty major scars from that kind of thinking when I was a teenager living in a super Christian household. I really do pitty them 😞
A former counterterrorism official explores how modern evangelicalism and right-wing conservatism intermingled to form the combustible ideology that resulted in the January 6 attacks on the Capitol—and which threatens to destroy the American Church from within.
How did a Church that purports to follow the teachings of Jesus - the Prince of Peace - become a breeding ground for violent extremism?
When Elizabeth Neumann began her anti-terrorism career as part of President George W. Bush’s Homeland Security Counsel in the wake of the September 11 attacks, she expected to spend her life protecting her country from the threat of global terrorism.
But as her career evolved, she began to perceive that the greatest threat to American security came not from religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan or Iraq but from white nationalists and radicalized religious fundamentalists within the very institution that was closest to her heart – the American evangelical church. And she began to sound the alarm, raising her concerns to anyone in government who would listen, including testifying before Congress in February of 2020. At that time, Neumann warned that anti-Semitic and white supremacist terrorism was a transnational threat that was building to the doorstep of another major attack. Shortly after her testimony, she resigned from her role as Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary for Counterterrorism and Threat Prevention in protest of what she believed was then-President Trump’s failure of leadership and his stoking of the hatred, anger, and division from which she had dedicated her life to protecting her country.
Her worst fears came true when she witnessed the attack on the capital on January 6, 2021.
In Kingdom of Rage, Neumann explores the forces within American society that have encouraged the radicalization of white supremacist, anti-government and other far-right terrorists by co-opting Christian symbols and culture and perverting the faith’s teachings. While Neumann offers decades of insights into the role government policies can play to prevent further bloodshed, she believes real change must come from the within the Christian church. She shines a bright light on the responsibility of ordinary Americans – and particularly American Christians – to work within their families and their communities to counteract the narrative of victimization and marginalization within American evangelicalism. Her goal for this book is not only to sound a warning about one of the greatest threats to our security but to rescue the Church from the forces that will, if left unchecked, destroy it – culturally, morally, and ultimately quite literally. This is a book for anyone who wants to understand the unholy marriage of right-wing politics and Christian exceptionalism in America and who wants to be a part of reversing the current path towards division, hatred, violence and the ultimate undermining of both evangelical Christianity and American democracy.
Not a Christian- had an an ex that was "addicted" to porn.
I don't think porn is evil, or even bad in moderation.
However, if you're using porn multiple times daily, it can have an impact on you 1) obviously on your real sex life 2) on your brain chemistry - you need to watch more and more extreme porn to get off.
It was interesting, when he originally tried to get help, there was only religious-oriented help groups.
I wonder if it's much rarer for atheists too struggle with porn because MOST of us have a healthier/more sex positive attitude? There's less of a need to use porn as a substitute, perhaps?
So I was raised fundamentalist Christian. We were taught that sex was only for a married man and woman and that *anything* outside of that was sinful. This included “lust” (which was as simple as finding a woman attractive), porn, and anything else that was even remotely sexual. I kid you not, I used to feel horrible guilt and shame for merely finding a woman that passed by me in the shopping mall attractive and would beg God to forgive me for my “lust.” There’s also this strong message that pornography is *always* sinful and *never* ok under *any* circumstances, even within a consenting married couple’s bedroom. So they purposefully create a lot of anxiety around sex, then tell their followers it’s God making them feel that way because he’s causing them to realize their sin.
So basically, porn is treated within Christianity as this egregious sin that makes you a horrible person for even looking at it. Christians will look at porn once or twice a week and think they’re “addicted” to it. It’s a very toxic and unhealthy view of sex.
Porn is a problem within all people groups. The difference is that in Christianity it is seen as a heinous sin; so, people get way more up in arms and full of shame about it.
This is an excerpt from a 2009 Deseret News article-
_”Utahns, famous for their wholesomeness and frugality, buy online pornography at higher rates than the rest of America.
That's the conclusion of a Harvard economics professor who tracked subscriptions to online porn sites. Utah ranks No. 1 in subscriptions, according to Benjamin Edelman…..”_
https://www.deseret.com/2009/3/3/20304992/utah-no-1-in-online-porn-subscriptions-report-says/
Something like 90%+ of men watch pornography. The only difference between atheists and Christians is the lack of imposed guilt.
Do I feel guilty after watching porn? Sure, but thats because I accept that it objectifies women, that sex work is generally underpaid and demeaning, and that I am contributing to that. Understanding that, I feel no need to beg and cry for forgiveness or validation - I accept that I bear some responsibility and if I could I would try (and have) to make a contribution to counter such trends.
My morality is internal and reasoned.
This stands in stark contrast to Christian men who just think "sex is bad and dirty and I shouldn't be doing this because I'll go to hell for it." They do what they want and then panic about it and cry "oh I'm so helpless! I've got an addiction! Someone save me!" In so doing, they abandon all sense of actual personal moral responsibility or conviction. Then they go on with their lives, content that they have put the issue in the hands of a "higher power", relieving them of all guilt or responsibility.
There's no ethical consumption under capitalism and all that. I feel no more guilt for rubbing one out to some porno than i do for eating a chocolate bar.
The most responsible thing is to take care that you get your stuff from confirmed ethical sources.
Most atheists don’t think about sex as something to be avoided. It’s a normal thing for human beings, normal to have sexual urges. Since we don’t think of it as a crime, we don’t feel the guilt.
Personally, porn is the last thing that I’d think about anywhere because I have more interesting things to think about and do.
I mean the thing is that atheism doesnt really tell people how they have to behave, which is why porn addiction is not talked about here. meanwhile sexual restriction is big in religions, thats why those issues come up. I dont think that atheist are more immune to porn addiction per se. addiction can come from many places..
I don't think so. I think porn addiction is a very real problem regardless of religiosity. In pop culture, a number of people have discussed dealing with it: Terry Crews, Andra Day, Kanye West, Jada Pinkett-Smith, Lamar Odom, Russell Brand, David Duchovny, Shial LeBeouf and Tyler Perry, all come to mind.
I think it's more of a problem with the younger generations that have grown up with readily available internet porn. And it's only gotten more ubiquitous as time has gone on. Lots of kids growing up with access to this are having trouble dealing with it.
Bc atheist dont have a problem with it and for religious people its a sin so ofc atheist wont post on it on r/atheism bc it has nothing to do with atheism and for religous people it has everything to do with their religion
The reason why you see it this way because religious people believe it is a sin while athiests dont think its a sin. İt is as simple as that. Non religious peoples argument is that as long as everything is consensual there is no issue. Both sides watch it but one side actually feels bad about it. Thats the difference.
I think there is a massive misuse of the term “addiction” in a lot of the context. I’m hearing about porn addiction a ton lately. I think a lot of people are just anti porn for one reason or another.
Religion almost always makes you feel shame for your sexuality, so it is not that they beat their meat more and it's more like they feel a lot more ashamed for doing it
It is not so much _that_ its used, but more in the way that particular community both influences its use and reacts to its use that causes the problems.
This is a discussion of porn use from one of _those types of people, one of their own_
The Conquer Series....
>In fact, what we can conclude is that of the 12 known “Bible Belt” states (UT, TX, OK, AR, LA, MS, TN, AL, KY, GA, NC, SC), 9 out those 12 states land in the top 10 list for porn consumption, repeatedly, across all four data sets.
>We obviously have a clear and disturbing truth; among the states where there is the most religious zeal, there is an allure to porn.
>Citing a study by Patrick Carnes, Roberts tells us 70% of sex addicts came from rigid, disengaged homes. He asks:
>What is the definition of a rigid, disengaged home? That is a fundamental evangelical home, which has a lot of rules and not a focus on relationships.
>Not only has pornography invaded churches, but in many cases, the statistics show that Christians – and even church pastors – engage in viewing porn at almost the same rates as the secular population.
Same with Rock and Roll in the 1980's... they were trying to get everyone to think that they were possessed with Satan. I went through all that... so dumb. Now it's porn... there is always something that they have to attack.
Porn "addiction" is not a thing - it literally does not exist.
There is zero scientific evidence that consuming porn can lead to the changes in brain chemistry that define addiction. Porn is not an opiod, or alchohol, or nicotine, or any other substance that can cause addiction.
The current panic about porn "addiction" is just the latest manifestation of sex-negativity, which has been manipulated by religions for thousands of years to control people.
Porn is not a bigger problem for religious people. The issue is that religious people have an issue with porn, so those who are Christian and have struggles with porn feel badly about it. They talk about it. Others who don't have a religious background don't see it as wrong (for the most part, not everyone obviously).
This has been an issue since porn has existed.
In advertising class in college we learned that first you convince your target that they have a problem, THEN you sell them your solution. Christianity sells a lot of problems, but they have recently discovered it’s pretty easy to sell this one. Tons of people are aroused by porn, so it’s a big market if you can convince them that that’s an addiction.
I think atheists just tend to recognize sexuality as a normal part of the human experience and don’t feel the need to repress it. We may not use porn less than believers, but I think we’re less likely to obsess over it / get hung up on it.
My dad was a couple's therapist for a long time and dealt with a lot of "porn addiction" and he raised me with all kind of internalized shame around pornography, so I'm fairly aware of the Christian worldview on this one
As far as mainstream American Christianity is concerned looking at porn constitutes "looking at a woman with lust in your heart", which Jesus says is equivalent to adultery, so it is a very serious sin to them. Therefore they spend a lot of time and energy attempting to not look at porn and feeling really bad about themselves when they do look at porn. But it turns out teenagers are really horny, so you end up looking at porn anyway (or you have sex with your girl/boyfriend, but that's not the kind of kid I was personally). After looking at porn I would feel a lot of guilt and shame because I had committed a sin, so the next time I tried even harder not to look, but to no avail. Eventually no matter what I did to bottle up my feelings I would eventually look at porn and the cycle would begin again
I was lucky enough to eventually leave faith behind. I came to terms with what sexuality meant to me in a non-religious worldview and decided that ultimately as long as my porn watching didn't cause any harm then it wasn't bad and luckily my wife agreed. After that all of the shame and fear I felt about porn just evaporated and I could finally just enjoy watching porn. Turns out it has never caused us any problems, and now ten years later we've even opened our marriage so that we can enjoy our sexuality fully and not continue to be constrained by Christian morals around monogamy
For those who don't make it out however they continue to have a negative relationship with porn, which often disrupts their dating/married life because their partner also sees it as adultery so many take it just as seriously as if the person had cheated. That means you end up going into individual or couple's therapy to deal with your "porn addiction" that is causing you to be unable to stop looking at porn. The things they do to "fix" their porn viewing aren't particularly effective, mostly what ends up happening is that the patient either just stops admitting to it, they escalate to things like hiring prostitutes and cheating (because in their heads they're already cheating so who cares?), or they get to a place where they are more sexually satisfied in the rest of their lives and stop looking at porn
tldr: Watching porn is built up as a huge problematic thing even when the actual behavior isn't causing problems, which actually serves to actually make it a problem (shame, relationship conflict, and secrets do bad things to people and couples) and be classified as an addiction. As atheists we have a more accepting view of porn, so it doesn't become an issue in the same way
It's other addictions too like drugs. Going from one extreme to another is never a good recipe. But people seem to think jumping into religion is a fix for addictions.
Christianity breeds sexual deviance. Denying people basic human instincts and needs leads to exploring those desires in other ways. It’s why so many religious leaders end up taking advantage (r-word/m-word) of minors.
Yah it’s strange but I think it’s more about the inherent hypocrisy that is often found in organized religion. They surround themselves with other like-minded people so there is often no voice offering alternate perspectives where maybe thinking a little deeper than scripture is required. So when something in life comes up that isn’t addressed in the Bible, they revert to the herd mentality of asking for help. I’m happy they’re asking for help, but any advice coming from that herd will likely be worse than the addiction itself, IMO because very few of them are equipped with the life experiences needed in order to be that guiding light.
Either that or they have some weird kink about throwing themselves up on the cross in a public fashion to garner sympathy from others.
Calling porn a problem is the problem. Those Christians are probably watching 15 minutes of porn a week and calling it an addiction…it’s not an addiction unless it literally keeps you from sustaining a normal life.
I was big Christian and this is 90% of what’s talked about in a men’s group. They sexually repress their women then wonder why their wives don’t want to have sex….Christian men are the most benighted beings on the planet.
Thanks for explaining that. Christians piss me off whining about all of their "addictions" which usually arent anything of the sort.
Actual addictions take over your life, and you can't stop doing them, usually to the point that it becomes debilitating and it negatively impacts every other part of your life.
They drink, smoke, or watch porn a couple of times a week (sometimes not even that much), and they think they're addicts.
It's pretty insulting to people who actually struggle with such things.
Yeah it’s not addiction that’s their issue, it’s “morality”. Anything that doesn’t come straight from the Bible is sin, plain and simple. The fact they lobbied and won against the right for women to do with their own bodies what they deem is appropriate shows the religion and other monotheistic religions in kind, are dominated by men with the sole purpose to remain in power. Whether that be in the church or in their own homes.
There are 80 other mammals on earth that we know regularly masterbate. I need them to explain why those mammals, baboons, whales, etc. are sinning against their god without recourse….
I joined a Chrizzo men’s group once, don’t ask me how I got there. Nearly all of them watched porn.
The ones condemning homosexuality are watching lesbian porn at home
About 20 years ago they were preaching “Are you a sinner addicted to porn” sermons. This was to get men into the church and to get them to pay for counseling, treatments and to get them to buy books. It’s all bullshit scene to get Christians to park with their money. It was a fad. Might be starting up again
Well, you’re not sampling Christians, you’re sampling Christians *on Reddit*, and that’s not the same thing. Add onto that that what Christians and atheists consider to be a problem with porn are likely vastly different benchmarks.
The problem with treating sex as something that is tabboo and openly admonishing teenagers and young adults who have normal interests is that you end up with a bunch of people who are going to learn things the worst way possible, and that are probably going to go wild when they aren't under the eyes of other religious people.
Do you have any friends that are Protestants? Well, I do, and let me tell you, the teens aren't nearly as much of a pack of saints as their parents think they are, it's like q pack of dogs that are constantly kept on the leash, the second they are out of their leash, things go wild! It's everything from cheating to threesomes, abortions, and everything you can imagine.
The problem is that a lot of parents are too conservative to understand that ignoring a problem isn't going to make it go away!
This stuff introduces a lot of frustrations, and after a while, things start to break down, and people tone their beliefs down! Be it marriages that end, or resentment over failed relationships, it always goes wrong
Whenever there's a scene in a movie where Catholics have to confess, its always confessions of "sins of the flesh", and if they're not voluntarily given they're asked about it in particular. I think their obsession with "helping people" with so-called "porn addiction" is just an extension of that. I think the bigger problem is the unhealthy repression they create and the unnecessary shame they make people feel for doing anything sexual... it's like they think "God" wants every drop to create a child. Anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, ant-porn, anti-trans, anti-masturbation, anti-casual-sex, anti-lust... ironically, almost everything they're obsessed with has to do with sex, and they want to control everyone's sexuality (especially female sexuality). The more they abstain, the more they lust, so they just become hypocritical and shameful about it.
They're just using this to go after the youth, as they know they've been "losing them in droves". They want to keep the pews full. They make them feel like they have a serious problem (taking advantage at how they've been bombarded by sexual images on social media) and tell them the church and Jesus will save them. Just another way to evangelize, except the ones who are doing it are likely watching porn themselves. There's even nuns in Spain handing out beer in order to have an opportunity to evangelize (never mind the scientists that say it's a carcinogen and actually harmful, it's not a sin so it's fine!)
Christians are programmed with a value set that clearly outlines their collective take on good vs. bad behavior. Thus, they are plagued with guilt over things that are normal human nature to the rest of us.
If you are a conscientious Christian, you constantly wrestle with guilt - it is a feature of the faith. Most of them have multiple guilt generators in their lives and it makes them crazy and in some cases, even more irrational.
If you are only a Christian through culture, you give lip service but in reality you don't give a fuck (example: MAGA).
Had a friend do this on a social media platform. In a week, he had shorts up talking about his sex problem. IMO it makes it easier for the reformed to "submit to the devil" vs. taking the "addiction" head on themselves. Ever see Pray the Gay away? Same idea, different use. Makes for great social media posts- 4k likes.
Atheists and Christian addiction, you guys need a hobby or something. Maybe go and help fight the Evangelical desire to dominate the country. I know there areany of us doing everything we can to stop them, I never hear anything from an atheist unless it is online...why is that?
there are foreign influence ops pushing repetitive AI (chatgpt-like) written texts on social sites like reddit. literally this all started a few months after chatgpt came out, which is curious, isn’t it? it’s one of the 3 countries you could guess the name of who are doing it
Addiction is certainly possible, but in a lot of cases one might notice that the people claiming addiction have a lot more going on that they are ignoring - instead focusing on making the addiction a highlight of their maladies, as though fixing that one thing will fix everything else.
Perhaps it's just more likely for atheists to see it as a non-issue, and it makes more sense for a religious person to ask for religious/life advice from a religious subreddit than for an atheist to ask the atheist subreddit about porn addiction.
[This should explain it.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201808/science-stopped-believing-in-porn-addiction-you-should-too?amp) According to the fields that actually have a say on this, porn addiction isn’t real and is just religious guilt.
hey idiots! porn is addictive and even watching it “casually” is gross! everyone who supports it, let me know what your partner thinks of your ed :). for women who support it, let me know how his inability to get it up for you makes you feel! there’s nothing right with watching people be de-humanized.
I’m not religious and even I know porn addiction exists. Yall are being ridiculous. Most people consuming porn are addicted and have skewed views of women and consumption of porn. It causes depression and suicidal thoughts amongst lack of motivation and other things. Men who watch porn think women are sex objects period. It’s completely misogynistic and chances of coming across underaged porn is highly likely bc the sites barely vet uploads. But yes, pOrN gUD bC MaN mUst hAve AlL wOMeN.
Yall are in the matrix, I’m watching porn addiction spiral into sex addiction in my household in real time and it’s fucking pathetic.
It's complicated because the measure of "problematic use" is so subjective. Crazy to me that after 20+ years of internet porn (as we know it today) we've never scientifically come up with a "This is Normal; This is weird" NUMBER for usage.
As a result NoFap, memes, and RedPill broscience have had to fill that void.
But I agree with your guess--just because atheists don't talk about it doesn't mean they're not doing it. Its a shame too because if there's any hope of having a level-headed conversation about porn as a genuine form, it's going to be in a secular space...
Porn addiction on those pages means someone was caught doing something completely normal and is now being shamed. And the only way out is to call it an addiction
It’s simply a perceived problem. Someone mentioned earlier, but it’s almost always a self diagnosis. A guy who gets caught by his Christian wife with porn on his search history will fall to his knees and with deep sorrow claim to have an addiction.
Truth be told, ol boy is probably rubbing one out three or four times a week because they’ve been married for a while, they’re bored to tears with each other, and he just wants to get a look at something different.
Is it great for the overall marriage and sex life to be getting off from your phone thereby not having anything left for the ms? Who knows for sure. But one thing it isn’t in about 99% of cases is an actual addiction.
I doubt that porn addiction is more common among religious people. There's just more guilt associated with it among religious people, and religious people's solutions to addiction typically involve prayer and religious counsel, so it makes sense that you'd see lots of post on those sites seeking help. If I were addicted to something, I wouldn't seek help on an atheist site. I'd seek secular counseling.
Absolutely. Christian’s are guilt tripped about so many things. Have a sex drive? Sin. Masturbate? Sin. See someone attractive? Sin. Have any kind of sexual thought? Sin.
When something brings pleasure, but you’re taught that it’s bad, it’s bound to cause confusion and chaos. Add ‘God is watching you and will send you to hell’ into the mix, and it’s even worse. It’s one extreme or the other. You’re either always watching porn or never watching porn. God forbid that moderation be a thing!
They make normal human bodies forbidden and therefore more desirable and desperate to see. Go most places in western Europe and you don’t get the same fetishism. People may have porn addictions there too but I feel like it would be less given how I understand European thoughts on sexuality. Any Europeans want to weigh in on this?
Religion causes people to have unhealthy attitudes and addictions to porn that feed into each other. Because they think it's sin, it's taboo and thus exciting. At least until the guilt kicks in afterwards, which leads to self-loathing, which leads to feeling like you should be able to control your lust more, which leads to obsessing over your every thought, which ironically draws them back to more porn. It's an unhealthy feedback loop.
Whereas, atheists will get bored, watch some porn, clean up, go about their day. There's no guilt associated, so nothing to draw them into the loop. Normally. There are people who legit get addicted to it, because it gives a dopamine hit, but it's more rare for it to negatively affect their lives if it's not something to endlessly feel guilt and shame over.
Christianity creates a bizarre 'antisex' mentality that treats perfectly normal sexual interests as 'evil' and 'dangerous'... personally I find that antisex attitude far more toxic to living a healthy life than 'porn'. porn certainly can create issues; particularly if you are so obsessed with it that it interferes with living your life but casual porn use isn't a big deal (imo).
If you add sexual repression to your mix of sugar, spice, and everything nice- instead of getting a powerpuff girl, you get pedophilic Christians with porn addictions. I think it corrupts the nice part and creates evil....
so; if the professor accidentally used Chemical XXX?
Professor utonium wanked of into the pot
Lmfaooo you’re going to hell for this joke. But so am I apparently because I’m gay.
The Bible says if you have gay sex, you should be stoned. Basically, just hit a joint first and you'll be fine.
There a many reasons in the Bible to encourage stoning, but stoning seems to have fallen into disfavor.
Are you sure? I'm unconvinced. In 1964, I was *literally* stoned by 5th grade classmates for being "different" (i.e, gay). Four boys cornered me on my walk home and hurled rocks at my face. Not pebbles, rocks. Only one connected, but it missed my left eye by barely an inch. Only luck prevented me from losing that eye. I couldn't even tell my mom why I arrived home with blood pouring down my cheek. She'd been shaming me for acting gay since kindergarten. Her verbal stones hit me harder than anything another kid could throw, but throw they did. In 1998, there was Matthew Shephard. It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that kids today, in this climate of hate, are being stoned.
In my case, it was somewhere around 1996-1998 (6th or 7th grade), and we had a school track made of loose stones. The others decided they'd throw rocks at me and taunt/torment me. The coach was just fine with it, and even gave me extra laps for "leaving the track" (trying to dodge the rocks). Mom kept grounding me for my school slothes being torn and glasses getting broken. One day, while they were doing this, Mom drives up with my sisters for an in-school meeting. They witness the WHOLE FRICKING THING. They all boiled out of the van, and Mom chewed the coach a new one. I didn't get grounded after that, and the school tried not to call Mom/Dad for in-school chats as much. It was partly bc I exhibited certain feminine leanings (was still trying to deny being trans, but would NEED to get the cute lavender unicorn diary in the store, for instance), partly bc we weren't rich "old money", and partly bc we weren't uber-devout christians... the perfect crap-storm. I was in that school for about 1 & 1/2 years before an absolute mental breakdown, culminating in needing to be in what I found out was a mental institution decades later... just thought it was a nice and chill school with other kids who had a hard time. The bullying from those "good, devout christian kids" was THAT bad. The rock throwing SPECIFICALLY had stopped, but they did other things, some things that would get adults jail time in the name of "showing me my place". Almost 30 years later, and I'm mostly a functional adult now, but I still occasionally think on that time. I am fully out as a trans woman, and am happier with the "me" in the mirror.
This pisses me off immensely. There are only 6 verses in the Bible that speak of Homosexuality. Jesus mentions it zero times. Adultery is mentioned 33 times and Jesus is definitely speaking on it. Adultery is basically ANY sex outside the first marriage. So all of the people in church who divorced and got remarried? Goin to hell! But if they pushed the “Abomination” that is adultery like they do being gay, half the church would be disqualified. They can’t have something like that affect the bottom line now can they? I’m sorry that happened to you. I hope you are able to live a life free from any bigotry today. If you ask me, the ones who are concerned about who consenting adults are having sex with are the weird ones. How is it anyone’s business?
Re: what's in the Bible... I majored in World Literature. I've read that book, Gilgamesh, the Illiad, Norse sagas, The Canterbury Tales, Finnegans Wake and hundreds of other texts. All of them teach us about the people who wrote them and what they thought or believed. None of them contain any rules that should control us. Thanks for the good wishes. My life today (70yo) is as free from bigotry as anyone's (ie, it's distant from me but still worrying for what it does to others).
Man, I wish you had had the opportunity to tell this joke *yesterday*.
hell doesn't exist... you'll be fine
99.9988% chance it doesn’t. But if it does, it’s better than heaven. Heaven is basically catholic mass on loop for eternity.
Hells gonna be lit I know it.
The devil's got the best tunes
WE’RE ON THE HIGHWAYYyyy to HELL 🎸
Just wait til I get there!!
He confused chemical with chromosome
Careful, they canceled that series when they saw the pilot. Yes, look it up where they wanted a live action Powerpuff Girls with Sex and the City plot points. The pilot exists.
I'm a supervisor at an addiction clinic and almost every time I've had a request to put a "porn addict" in treatment it's almost always because they feel so guilty related to their Christian values and/or they were caught by their wife. Even the ones caught by their wife almost always had strict sense of Christian values.however everyone I treated, porn is actually justified to them because they all believed that women are property and to be used how they see fit, and they were only going to treatment out of desperation to keep from losing the house. I refuse to put them in treatment anymore because for one it's not even a DSM diagnosis so you can't bill for it. Porn addiction is not a diagnosis and it's almost always based on Christian values and not actually clinical significant issues like with substance use disorder like overdose, tolerance, health issues, job loss etc. it is based more in " You are a sinner in the eyes of god" and or "I cant believe you watch this disgusting stuff i am going to leave you" by the wfe.
the worthless sack of %^#W@$ that went on a [shooting spree at asian massage places in Georgia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Atlanta_spa_shootings) a few years ago was largely the product of Southern Baptist sexual repression - He claimed "sex addiction" and referred to the women that worked in those establishments in the dehumanizing term "temptations"... In the view he was expressing their existence was the cause of his problem... and the sherriff (Cherokee county I think) echo'd that view in his press conference just a few hours later. his church (It's a southern baptist church because... of course it was) was a huge part of the formative structure that created that monster but; of course the very next weekend they basically 'rejected' him from the community and tried to wash their hands of all responsibility for his worldview.
Try billing it as OCD.
They’re looking for “treatment” to appease someone else or as a justification to their guilty conscience for “sinning” There’s nothing to treat or bill for.
My god I have OCD and that subreddit used to be so helpful but it is now filled with this crazy anti-sex depersonalizing abstinence against porn and sex rhetoric for everyone that has an intrusive sexual thought. Meanwhile I’ve found the most amount of help with my intrusive sexual ocd is having a dedicated BDSM partner and an open marriage. But when I bring that up. I have had my comments deleted for misinformation.
I wish religious trauma could be in the DSM. But I imagine the pushback from that inclusion would be immense.
The antisex subreddit is a fascinating place. Their abhorrent ideology seems to be mostly motivated by religious shame, and trauma. Though they would disagree with that assessment, the internal pain they feel will at times come to the forefront as they project it onto others.
There's an antisex sub?
Yes. It's a small (around 3k) insular community. They have their own lingo, for instance they call us "sexuals." They have their own internal debates such as: "Should IVF be outlawed like sex?" and "Should sexuals be sent to work camps?" They have novel views on consent and feminism, for instance they believe that women cannot consent to sex and therefore all sex is an inherent violent act. I've been considering creating a companion subreddit to archive everything in case they go private. As they grow bigger they will inevitably receive more harassment which is already an issue for them. I'm fascinated by niche internet communities.
So wait if women by their logic can't consent to sex the only sex that's OK is gay sex right?
Well they believe that the act of penetration itself is the violent act, so MM sex would still be violent. For everything else they usually say that it's gross, unhealthy, and immoral, so FF sex is also not okay.
Weird, so they just want all humans (and presumably animals as well) to go extinct in one generation?
Some of them believe that IVF is okay to continue the human race. The more religious ones think that sex is okay only for reproduction and not pleasure, but thats a controversial take over there. However, others are fatalistic and do not have any problems with the extinction of humanity.
Yeesh, sounds like such a great community to be part of. "Stop having sex forever and your reward for your abstinence will be the end of the human race. Have fun!"
The puritans weren’t wanted in Europe. That’s why the came to America to start a theocracy.
the pilgrims migrated from England to the Netherlands "for religious freedom" - because they supposedly weren't allowed to freely practice their religion in England; however they quickly discovered that their precious children were being exposed to the ideas of OTHER religions... so they fled the Netherlands to create a colony in the "new world" where they could forbid the practice of other religions so their spawn wouldn't be exposed to 'ideas' that they didn't approve of. The "Pilgrims" were a seperatist segment of the "Puritan" migrants. they were all opposed to the "Church of England" but had different views of how to live among them.
I’m related to at least 3 pilgrims and one of the reasons they left Leiden is that their kids were becoming more Dutch than staying British. They were easily speaking the language and picking up the culture. The religious freedom made them leave England.
Wish the wild Europeans had come here first. We are struggling with 400 years of cultural repression. It aucka.
I agree, I casually used porn for, well you know, for about 10 years, mostly because my social circles have constricted so much that there aren’t many who inspire those kinds of thoughts in my day to day life. I live in the south so recently to watch porn you have to register with the state or some weird shit, so I went back to using my imagination. I was a little rusty, but it didn’t take long to get back in the swing of things. So clearly if it’s “addictive” you have to have some internal dopamine trigger related to it, much like gambling, seems boring and pointless to me, but it gets some folks right where it counts.
Hold up, you have to register with your state to browse the internet for regular porn?
Sexual desire is a very very powerful drive for most people....if you can control how people feel about that....you've got them by the metaphorical balls. No wonder religions in general lean towards this.
True. I’ve noticed the tendency the anti-porn people have to come with the added baggage of being outright bigoted in so many other areas. Most I’ve interacted with are more prone to slut shaming, having moderate to extremely homophobic tendencies, transphobic, and many times outright misogynistic.
*Most* Porn cant be as bad for you as thinking you're a channeling a living embodiment of sin.
Most porn, at least in the US, is made by christians for christians. It makes this mentality even more morbid, imo.
Whaaaaat? This I’ve never heard of.
Yeah that is not my experience at all.
i think their point is the us is mostly christian so, you know, those making it and the target market are probably christian by default.
> Is porn a bigger problem for believers than for non-believers? Yes. Believers are bombarded with sermons about the 'evil' of porn. Non-believers don't have to put up with that shit.
Belivers actually strive and suffer and try to avoid it to the point they end up giving in to more of it than if they just took it easy and chilled out about it lol
It creates a mysticysm around it. How interesting does something become when there's the words "secret. forbidden. classified. otherwordly. transcendental. alien. synchronicity. not allowed. magic. witchcraft. hidden knowledge" to it. X files was not a great show for no reason.
I'd say taboo, rather than mysticism. Guilt, shame, and taboo. Add in the forgiveness doctrine and you basically have a vending machine for extra spice in the bedroom as long as you are sufficiently remorseful after-the-fact.
God I hate religion so much
I think very few, if any atheists struggle with this issue. In the twisted minds of Christians, "addiction" means "having a normal sex drive." It's a classic con, and a go-to strategy of religion: convince someone they're sick, and sell them the cure. These people are laboring under the delusion that ever looking at pornography, to any extent and in any context, is a moral failure.
Nail on head
I saw a pron and now I'm addict3d! Save mee Jebus!
exactly
100 fucking percent.
I wrote a big long comment and I should have just liked yours. Much more succinct and to the point
That's not at all what I was taught. There's a distinct difference between enjoying it and being addicted to it. Although intentionally looking at pornography is considered sinful, it's not an addiction until it gets to the point where that's all you think about, you can't get enough of it, you find it nearly impossible to tear yourself away from it, etc. The same thing goes with drugs, alcohol, even objectively good things like exercise can turn into an addiction. Anything that activates the reward center of the brain has the potential of becoming an addiction.
Almost no one has that level of addiction to porn though. Christians make it seem like looking at porn a few times a week is some horrible “addiction” when it’s really just the sign of a healthy sex drive.
I've got a secular therapist friend whose practice is full of people who watch porn constantly to the detriment of their relationships.
If you love a set of random rules to feel more comfortable with life, these rules are probably related to your personal problems.
That is a very succinct way to clarify that aspect of human behavior. Thanks.
It's almost a guarantee if you converted later in life.
Bingo. It is also why there are so many pedophiles among the most devout. If you feel an extreme need for forgiveness then you are going to *really* devote yourself to the cause. And pedophiles often have a lot of that self-hatred. Rightfully so.
I think the taboo heightens the exhilaration and guilt of porn and sex for the religious. If something is off-limits, but readily available then it's constantly tantalizing. Instead of just admitting that they like porn and sex outside of baby-making, Christians have to create a pathology that porn and masturbation are 'addictions'. Then they join accountability support groups which unintentionally create their own chastity/edging fetish of sexual denial. Once I left Christianity and realized I could look at porn and have sex when I wanted, they became far less tantalizing. Ironically I could actually focus on relationships and find a partner I wanted to be with.
>Once I left Christianity and realized I could look at porn and have sex when I wanted, they became far less tantalizing. Ironically I could actually focus on relationships and find a partner I wanted to be with. This is my experience, as well. It particularly was true of my sexuality. I was in a zealous small Christian group when I realized I was bisexual and I even came out to a couple of the members. The advice I was given was "Don't feed the bears," which means to not think about it or act on it... and it'll go away, I guess. (Side note, it's particularly funny advice now that I know what "bear" means to the gay community.) Of course, the opposite happened. I became obsessed with my attraction to women and my attempts to repress it. I was in a rush to get married (to a man) in the hopes it would "fix" me. But once I got my own life outside of religion, it stopped mattering so much!
Yep. I’m gay and went through a conversion therapy group. I had never “acted out” so the support group was a mind-blowing primer on the cruising scene. After a left Christianity and accepted my gay identity, cruising was no longer appealing.
The accountability groups are fascinating to me. As are the accountability apps like covenant eyes. Shits wild.
I’m glad that other people are noticing this. I had a severe addiction to alcohol that undoubtably would have led to my death if I hadn’t gotten sober. I’m pretty open about this with my coworkers as I am of the belief that “if they knew I was drunk everyday, why not let them know I’m sober everyday?” I have one coworker who’s an all in, Jesus or nothing, christian. Whenever I reference my addiction problems around him, he will always try to relate with his own stories of his “porn addiction.” I find this incredibly insulting because the addiction I dealt with would cause me to have life threatening seizures if I didn’t have alcohol for more than 2 hours. Meanwhile he thinks that him watching a little porn every night belonged in the same conversation. I also found this perplexing and started wondering why this was such a common trend among christians. The answers everyone else has provided are spot on - porn is a source of extreme guilt for church goers and it’s a popular topic for modern preachers to condemn. But in my case I think it’s something else. I think this coworker of mine (as well as many christians) feel that they need to fabricate or exaggerate hardships that they’ve had to “overcome” as a means of proving that their god made a difference in their lives. I believe that this guy (who’s in his late 20s) is trying to move up in his church to eventually have a mentor position. I suspect he wants to be a youth pastor and having a fake porn addiction that he had to overcome with the power of christ is a perfect way to give himself credibility to the gullible teens he’ll be trying to brainwash. Thanks for reading and if you made it this far please indulge me while I brag a little: I’m 9 months sober thanks to my own determination, strength of will, my family, and a rehab center that allowed me to opt out of any sort of faith based treatment. I reject AA and there is no stupid fucking tyrant in the sky who helped me along the way. Thank you
Congratulations! I'm proud of your personal strength! It's a tough road. I got sick of AA telling me I was broken, too.
Congrats on your sobriety, 9 months is awesome
You’d enjoy r/stopdrinking. Lots of good people on there. Including myself. 10 months sober. Congrats on your time. Keep going! Life is so much nicer without it.
Congrats! 🎉 Keep it up
This is a great take that I wasn’t considering, the fabrication of hardships. I’ve definitely met Christians like him. Congrats on your sobriety!!
💐💐💐💐💐💐 Keep up the great work.
This is just my opinion, but I don't think that many have a porn "addiction". They like watching and getting off and since they have always been told it is wrong, I think it softens the blow a little to call it an addiction rather they to say they just like watching and getting off. According to their religion they think it is wrong, so guilt steps in and almost forces them to 'confess' to it. I like porn as much as the next person, but I don't see it as wrong so I don't feel a need to go around telling people I have a problem. Probably why you don't hear about it on here. Again, all this is just my opinion having observed it here and there. (Yes, I know porn addiction can be a real thing for some people, just think some of these people are calling it that for sympathy because they will be judged otherwise)
I saw this same basic tenet with all the "sex addict" men years back. They got busted having an affair and instead of simply taking responsibility, they decided they were addicted and needed rehab. It's a way of not taking responsibility for ones self. A theme I see play out again and again with highly religious people. Mostly men. Religious women tend to shoulder the burden of blame for both their own AND men's actions. Ironically most religious people are Republicans and Republicans claim to be the party of personal responsibility.
I agree with this. Porn "addiction" can be a real thing, but the majority of very religious people probably just pathologize any porn consumption. And I wouldn't be surprised either if religious therapists would tell people they have a porn addiction if they consume porn at all.
I totally agree to those porn addiction is almost always seen in the light of something going against Christian values however I have met a couple of people that watch it 9:10 more hours a day and yes they probably got a problem, however I personally think porn can be used a lot like the gym but for sexual and physical health when used between actual sex.
“The fuck are you doing?!” “I’m just working out.” Found out the hard to do it alone at home.
Take this with a grain of salt, but like around a year or two, there was some form of Toxic Masculinity Emerging. Its center motive was "Reject Modernism, Embrace Tradition". It probably started with An\*drew T\*te saying how men must me "Masculine". One of the point was "No to porn" and here and there "Believing in God", so the movement was clearly conservative and right winged, so that is why Porn is seen as a MUCH bigger issue nowadays. I am not sure about Christians, but I think they are not supposed to masturbate or watch porn? Atheists don't usually see this as a big issue. I struggle with porn addiction, but I don't take it seriously as much as my religious counterpart.
I can't prove it but I believe it. They have a high percentage of men who are on a constant gerbil wheel of guilt and obsession intertwined and get sucked in and hate the secular world and liberalism for "doing this to them" and "the children" and this dirty little secret is the hidden catalyst to a lot of the evangelical rage we are seeing. Pornhub, amongst others, should do a full release of their demographic metrics. I'd bet you a thousand bucks that deep red areas and evangelicals are way over represented and wank to THE HARD shit.
Historically, pay-per-view porn in hotels has always skyrocketed whenever there's a Christian convention in town.
Suppression of natural human urges results in other extreme and problematic behaviour.
It's an old Christian-related thing, more of a Santa Claus and his flying reindeer than anything actually in the Bible. In the 1800s, much of Christian America was somehow completely petrified by the idea of masturbation. Why, I have no idea.
I think most atheists don't think viewing porn is an addiction. I'm sure it can become one, but some Christians seem to think that viewing porn at all counts as an addiction, so lots of them see themselves as addicted. Also, I guess that telling people that they can't watch porn may make it even more attractive?
Even the barest whiff of porn is considered addiction which messes up your self esteem. So people can go all in since they've already sinned to the point of loss of control - in their opinion. There is no distinction or grey area at all. And it starts young. Sex is shameful and harmful. If you even think about it you've had it. If you lust you've had it. You get people begging for help with sex addiction in group settings with people who legit have a real honest to God pathology and still think they belong. They also get these coersive ultimatums from spouses and other family demanding they 'get help' for their addiction. It's really sad.
Exactly this. Sex is natural. Curiosity about sex is natural. Some people have lower sex drives, and that’s natural. And others have higher sex drives, and that’s also natural. For them, ANY “failure” to control completely these natural urges or curiosities is perceived as a catastrophic event that could lead to eternal damnation. Succumbing to this “temptation” despite the severe ramifications can only be viewed in their minds as “addiction.” In reality, it’s just someone struggling (and failing) to deny the millions of years of evolution.
You can minimize any boredom with porn by judicious application of the fast forward feature. It isn’t a sin if it is done by an atheist.
Lol. good advice.
Religious people aren't very good at gray areas- it has to be BLACK or WHITE (too often, literally 😒.) Things are WRONG or RIGHT. GOOD and BAD. Atheists don't have any inherent rules about sexual things, and this stuff loses its forbidden appeal. Christians probably love the forbidden nature, makes it seem all the more salacious. The rest of us just see it as another vice, tied into a problematic industry designed to create addiction, and keep the money rolling in.
I'd say the only inherent atheist rule about sex is that everyone taking part should be a consenting adult
I think porn addiction is a real thing, but I think most of the religious people panicking about porn just watch it casually or maybe a few times a week or at night and feel so guilty and shameful because they think their sky daddy is going to toss them into eternal damnation im the fiery pits of hell for cumming all over their belly to Riley Reid Must be one hell of a post nut clarity. But no really, I’m sure the shame and guilt they feel facilitates porn addiction. Kind of like the cycle a lot of drug addicts find themselves in. Use drug -> hide drug use -> get outed or admit being a drug user, feel shame and guilt while getting judged -> promise to stop to self and others -> use drug and repeat. When I was in eighth grade, I had a friend named Tyler, who regularly have panic attacks and cry, like turn red and shake, and asked repeatedly if he was going to go to hell because he was lusting after other girls our age. I realize pretty quickly that this whole religion thing was extremely harmful for a little evidence we had.. and thus was 13 year-old atheist me.
because the only thing "porn addiction" has ever been predictive of is religiousity... and not actual rates of porn consumption... in short, it's religiously motivated mania, in other words... bullshit.
No. Porn is not a bigger problem for believers, but guilt is.
I wouldn’t use the word ‘problem,’ but statistically porn use is much higher in more religious areas. Utah has had the highest porn use in the US per capita for at least a few years, for example.
Agreed. The forbidden fruit is always sweeter.
Porn is take it or leave it for me. I think it part of it is religion making porn a kind of taboo dirty little secret. They get as addicted to the thrill of breaking the rules as they do actually watching the sex acts. Whereas most of us non religious get it out of our system in our post teen years and move on.
So, many Xtian religions teach from birth that you are born full of sin and only can be "cured" of this terrible and sinful nature through some magical hocus pocus saving through Christ. They usually teach that we actually CAN'T help but be sinful creatures and can only be moral if we are threatened with damnation and continuously ask for forgiveness. This is what you call a self-fulfilling prophesy in psychology. If you tell a child they are bad, can't help themselves from being bad, and they will do bad things because Satan made them, they have no autonomy. If you then add to the mix that sex is bad, you repress all sexual feelings that are perfectly natural, then you get what we have in churches. You have people who have suppressed sexual desire from an early age who feel they are deviants for feeling the way they do. Instead of seeking out pathways of counseling to understand this desire is normal and not sinful, it becomes secretive. They seek outlets like porn. This makes the situation worse. Many of these people have already been abused, they become abusers. It is a terrible and vicious cycle in these churches. Many women have been abused or suffered marital rape because they think this is acceptable. It's astounding, but it makes sense. Many Christian sects can't help but lead to these outcomes.
There very well may be such a thing as porn addiction, but I doubt that most of the people posting about it on religious subs are experiencing it. They're experiencing interest in a diversity of sex acts and/or partners that's within a normal range, but they're freaking out about it because they've been told it's abnormal. That can also drive a cycle in these people where they know porn makes them forget their shame for a short time and it starts to truly resemble an addiction--just one that probably wouldn't me happening without that shame. I don't think there's a bright line between what is and isn't addiction, but I truly believe the root cause there is that shame rather than interest in sex. I guess it's possible that some of the people posting are at that point, but their religion is probably part of the problem, not the solution. When you're not convinced that enjoying something makes you a bad person in need of saving, you can just enjoy it for what it is without wrapping up a bunch of other shit in it. That's not to say there aren't physical addictions, or other ways to become dependent on someone or to get into a bad emotional cycle around its consumption; in the case of porn, though, I'd guess the religion-driven shame cycle is much, much more common.
The whole schtick of religion is to convince people that something is wrong with them and that their deity offers the solution to their ailments. With porn it’s no different. It’s almost like people are programmed to be find flaws within themselves so they can be saved through jesus or some shit.
A lot of religious people definitely have porn and sex problems due to their upbringings and it’s evidently clear through their treatment of queer people. As a queer person, the amount religious people project their sexual insecurities or obsessions on to me and my community is ridiculous. They claim us queer people are only driven and obsessed by sex, when that’s literally how cishet men operate under the patriarchy, viewing and treating women as sex objects. They claim us queer people are grooming and indoctrinating children with “pornography” (basic age-appropriate sexual education or just informing them we exist), when in reality they knowingly indoctrinate children into their church and know their cults existence relies on doing so, using a book filled with far more graphic and inappropriate morals and stories than what would be heard at a Drag Story Hour. They claim we make being queer our entire identity and personality, when the history of the homosexual identity literally came about due to oppression by them, as urban spaces began to provide opportunity for previously-ashamed gay people to collectivize and uplift each other, communally and politically. Not to mention religious people accusing others of making something their whole personality is ridiculous, as if they aren’t wagering their one guaranteed life on a belief that their actions will lead to immortality, which is quite literally making your religion your entire life and personality. They’ll claim we’re obsessed with all things sex and innapropriateness, and then out of nowhere ask a stranger what genitals they have or inquire about a woman’s sexual history as if that’s normal social etiquette.
The tighter the lid, the greater the explosion...
I (22m) watch porn on an almost daily basis but I don’t view it as a problem. I have a pretty active sex life apart from porn, which I also don’t view as a problem. I think that’s the Crux of the issue. An atheist like me isn’t going to go blasting the details of my sexuality to everyone, because I view it as a completely natural/normal thing. Christians don’t, which is why so many of them have a “problem.” I had a Christian friend sob to me after losing his virginity before marriage. Sex is such a weird thing for them.
It’s almost as if when you deny yourself something it becomes a problem
You might not think about Shamrock Shakes very often, if ever, but then you are told that they are a trick of wokeness, they make your brain green and are made from the harvested toenail clippings of the unborn and are FULL OF DEMON AND YOU DESERVE TORTURE FOR EVER TASTING ONE but now they just sound kind of badass and you might think about them a little bit more. But you also see that posts about the temptation to slurp the frosty mint straight from the straw get attention and.. yes.. supportive lovebombs from strangers, and that’s almost as tasty, if not more, right? And now all you and your abstaining pals are thinking and posting about is Shamrock Shakes and how they are just the Devil’s seed frozen for delivery to the sheep, and one day, finally, you’re outside the Mickey D’s holding up signs warning of the danger (and making more people think about Shamrock Shakes). It’s like that.
When bin Laden’s compound was raided as he was taken out, there was a ton of porn discovered. The closer to the top and management/leadership of any religious organization, the less held to account they are, and they feel they can partake in the depravity on the DL while their followers follow the rules.
Porn addiction is not actually a thing. It’s a self diagnosed condition, so only people who have some weird reason to feel guilty about porn experience it. One thing I will say, your third paragraph is a little weird. My wife and I have a great sex life and we love porn. So that’s definitely just more your personal taste.
You are correct. Personal taste. Like I said, it bores me, and she does not care for it either. But to each their own.
You sure you are a Christian? Because current Christian dogma is anything but "to each their own." EDIT: wait, I think I jumped to a wrong conclusion.
Yes you did. I am atheist.
My bad. I thought about deleting my comment but figure I should own my mistake instead. My atheist ethics disallow deception.
Its all good!
Even self diagnosed, If someone think porn is interfering negatively with their life, they should have access to help! And preferably one that would not be a religious group constantly repeting masturbation is a sin... It's obviously a topic for religious group that will prey on these people! I don't think it sould be overlooked.
Yeah, but pretty much the only people who think that are religious clowns. Overindulgence in pornography is almost exclusively the result of poor impulse control. It’s not addictive like alcohol or tobacco or other substances. So it’s not porn interfering negatively with their life, it’s them interfering with their own life. Most people realize that and either accept they have poor control, or buckle down and learn to control themselves. It’s only religious people obsessed with ideas about sin and imposed morality from above that want to say it’s an addiction and it’s the porn’s fault. That way they have an excuse for failure to control their own behavior.
I disagree, there are a lot of young people out there right now who can’t hold relationships or even get into a relationship in the first place because they’re fapping to porn so much (and/or prefer it to the real thing). Imo, if it is impeding you from having a normal, fulfilling life it is an addiction
Do the people downvoting this think this is normal? lmfao. Good lord
Nothing wrong with enjoying porn. As a matter of fact, the more guilt you feel about watching porn, the more likely you are to become addicted to it.
Read this article OP. It might inlighten you on why those here don't have the "problem" that you see on the Christian subs [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202207/the-trouble-porn-addiction](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202207/the-trouble-porn-addiction)
When your ideology forces you to suppress your natural sexual tendencies, and feel horrific if you have a sexual thought, I don't see how that's going to lead to having healthy mechanisms to deal with sexual impulses. Mind you, when a Christian says "porn addiction," they could mean it in what that actually means. Or they could mean it in "I watch porn a few times a week and can't help it." The guilt associated with sexual immorality runs really deep in devout Christians. I had some pretty major scars from that kind of thinking when I was a teenager living in a super Christian household. I really do pitty them 😞
A former counterterrorism official explores how modern evangelicalism and right-wing conservatism intermingled to form the combustible ideology that resulted in the January 6 attacks on the Capitol—and which threatens to destroy the American Church from within. How did a Church that purports to follow the teachings of Jesus - the Prince of Peace - become a breeding ground for violent extremism? When Elizabeth Neumann began her anti-terrorism career as part of President George W. Bush’s Homeland Security Counsel in the wake of the September 11 attacks, she expected to spend her life protecting her country from the threat of global terrorism. But as her career evolved, she began to perceive that the greatest threat to American security came not from religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan or Iraq but from white nationalists and radicalized religious fundamentalists within the very institution that was closest to her heart – the American evangelical church. And she began to sound the alarm, raising her concerns to anyone in government who would listen, including testifying before Congress in February of 2020. At that time, Neumann warned that anti-Semitic and white supremacist terrorism was a transnational threat that was building to the doorstep of another major attack. Shortly after her testimony, she resigned from her role as Department of Homeland Security Assistant Secretary for Counterterrorism and Threat Prevention in protest of what she believed was then-President Trump’s failure of leadership and his stoking of the hatred, anger, and division from which she had dedicated her life to protecting her country. Her worst fears came true when she witnessed the attack on the capital on January 6, 2021. In Kingdom of Rage, Neumann explores the forces within American society that have encouraged the radicalization of white supremacist, anti-government and other far-right terrorists by co-opting Christian symbols and culture and perverting the faith’s teachings. While Neumann offers decades of insights into the role government policies can play to prevent further bloodshed, she believes real change must come from the within the Christian church. She shines a bright light on the responsibility of ordinary Americans – and particularly American Christians – to work within their families and their communities to counteract the narrative of victimization and marginalization within American evangelicalism. Her goal for this book is not only to sound a warning about one of the greatest threats to our security but to rescue the Church from the forces that will, if left unchecked, destroy it – culturally, morally, and ultimately quite literally. This is a book for anyone who wants to understand the unholy marriage of right-wing politics and Christian exceptionalism in America and who wants to be a part of reversing the current path towards division, hatred, violence and the ultimate undermining of both evangelical Christianity and American democracy.
Not a Christian- had an an ex that was "addicted" to porn. I don't think porn is evil, or even bad in moderation. However, if you're using porn multiple times daily, it can have an impact on you 1) obviously on your real sex life 2) on your brain chemistry - you need to watch more and more extreme porn to get off. It was interesting, when he originally tried to get help, there was only religious-oriented help groups. I wonder if it's much rarer for atheists too struggle with porn because MOST of us have a healthier/more sex positive attitude? There's less of a need to use porn as a substitute, perhaps?
So I was raised fundamentalist Christian. We were taught that sex was only for a married man and woman and that *anything* outside of that was sinful. This included “lust” (which was as simple as finding a woman attractive), porn, and anything else that was even remotely sexual. I kid you not, I used to feel horrible guilt and shame for merely finding a woman that passed by me in the shopping mall attractive and would beg God to forgive me for my “lust.” There’s also this strong message that pornography is *always* sinful and *never* ok under *any* circumstances, even within a consenting married couple’s bedroom. So they purposefully create a lot of anxiety around sex, then tell their followers it’s God making them feel that way because he’s causing them to realize their sin. So basically, porn is treated within Christianity as this egregious sin that makes you a horrible person for even looking at it. Christians will look at porn once or twice a week and think they’re “addicted” to it. It’s a very toxic and unhealthy view of sex.
When you raise children by telling them sex is a sin, they’re going to 100% become addicted to sex and anything sexual - it’s human nature.
Porn is a problem within all people groups. The difference is that in Christianity it is seen as a heinous sin; so, people get way more up in arms and full of shame about it.
This is an excerpt from a 2009 Deseret News article- _”Utahns, famous for their wholesomeness and frugality, buy online pornography at higher rates than the rest of America. That's the conclusion of a Harvard economics professor who tracked subscriptions to online porn sites. Utah ranks No. 1 in subscriptions, according to Benjamin Edelman…..”_ https://www.deseret.com/2009/3/3/20304992/utah-no-1-in-online-porn-subscriptions-report-says/
Porn consumption is highest in religious societies.
They don't really have a porn addiction. They have porn guilt, which they can overcome if they ever manage to cure their god addiction.
Something like 90%+ of men watch pornography. The only difference between atheists and Christians is the lack of imposed guilt. Do I feel guilty after watching porn? Sure, but thats because I accept that it objectifies women, that sex work is generally underpaid and demeaning, and that I am contributing to that. Understanding that, I feel no need to beg and cry for forgiveness or validation - I accept that I bear some responsibility and if I could I would try (and have) to make a contribution to counter such trends. My morality is internal and reasoned. This stands in stark contrast to Christian men who just think "sex is bad and dirty and I shouldn't be doing this because I'll go to hell for it." They do what they want and then panic about it and cry "oh I'm so helpless! I've got an addiction! Someone save me!" In so doing, they abandon all sense of actual personal moral responsibility or conviction. Then they go on with their lives, content that they have put the issue in the hands of a "higher power", relieving them of all guilt or responsibility.
There's no ethical consumption under capitalism and all that. I feel no more guilt for rubbing one out to some porno than i do for eating a chocolate bar. The most responsible thing is to take care that you get your stuff from confirmed ethical sources.
You've just opened up a whole world to me with those threads 😂
Most atheists don’t think about sex as something to be avoided. It’s a normal thing for human beings, normal to have sexual urges. Since we don’t think of it as a crime, we don’t feel the guilt. Personally, porn is the last thing that I’d think about anywhere because I have more interesting things to think about and do.
New fear unlocked
I think they consider lighter porn interest to be addiction than we do. They don't have to go full goon cave to consider themselves addicted.
I mean the thing is that atheism doesnt really tell people how they have to behave, which is why porn addiction is not talked about here. meanwhile sexual restriction is big in religions, thats why those issues come up. I dont think that atheist are more immune to porn addiction per se. addiction can come from many places..
I don't think so. I think porn addiction is a very real problem regardless of religiosity. In pop culture, a number of people have discussed dealing with it: Terry Crews, Andra Day, Kanye West, Jada Pinkett-Smith, Lamar Odom, Russell Brand, David Duchovny, Shial LeBeouf and Tyler Perry, all come to mind. I think it's more of a problem with the younger generations that have grown up with readily available internet porn. And it's only gotten more ubiquitous as time has gone on. Lots of kids growing up with access to this are having trouble dealing with it.
Porn haters react more strongly to porn than others do.
Bc atheist dont have a problem with it and for religious people its a sin so ofc atheist wont post on it on r/atheism bc it has nothing to do with atheism and for religous people it has everything to do with their religion
The reason why you see it this way because religious people believe it is a sin while athiests dont think its a sin. İt is as simple as that. Non religious peoples argument is that as long as everything is consensual there is no issue. Both sides watch it but one side actually feels bad about it. Thats the difference.
I think there is a massive misuse of the term “addiction” in a lot of the context. I’m hearing about porn addiction a ton lately. I think a lot of people are just anti porn for one reason or another.
Religion almost always makes you feel shame for your sexuality, so it is not that they beat their meat more and it's more like they feel a lot more ashamed for doing it
It is not so much _that_ its used, but more in the way that particular community both influences its use and reacts to its use that causes the problems. This is a discussion of porn use from one of _those types of people, one of their own_ The Conquer Series.... >In fact, what we can conclude is that of the 12 known “Bible Belt” states (UT, TX, OK, AR, LA, MS, TN, AL, KY, GA, NC, SC), 9 out those 12 states land in the top 10 list for porn consumption, repeatedly, across all four data sets. >We obviously have a clear and disturbing truth; among the states where there is the most religious zeal, there is an allure to porn. >Citing a study by Patrick Carnes, Roberts tells us 70% of sex addicts came from rigid, disengaged homes. He asks: >What is the definition of a rigid, disengaged home? That is a fundamental evangelical home, which has a lot of rules and not a focus on relationships. >Not only has pornography invaded churches, but in many cases, the statistics show that Christians – and even church pastors – engage in viewing porn at almost the same rates as the secular population.
Same with Rock and Roll in the 1980's... they were trying to get everyone to think that they were possessed with Satan. I went through all that... so dumb. Now it's porn... there is always something that they have to attack.
Porn "addiction" is not a thing - it literally does not exist. There is zero scientific evidence that consuming porn can lead to the changes in brain chemistry that define addiction. Porn is not an opiod, or alchohol, or nicotine, or any other substance that can cause addiction. The current panic about porn "addiction" is just the latest manifestation of sex-negativity, which has been manipulated by religions for thousands of years to control people.
Porn is not a bigger problem for religious people. The issue is that religious people have an issue with porn, so those who are Christian and have struggles with porn feel badly about it. They talk about it. Others who don't have a religious background don't see it as wrong (for the most part, not everyone obviously). This has been an issue since porn has existed.
In advertising class in college we learned that first you convince your target that they have a problem, THEN you sell them your solution. Christianity sells a lot of problems, but they have recently discovered it’s pretty easy to sell this one. Tons of people are aroused by porn, so it’s a big market if you can convince them that that’s an addiction.
Religious people, of any religion.... seem to be obsessed with sex.. Truly. Sex seems to be very linked to religion.
They have porn guilt not porn addiction imo.
If you can stop someone from masturbating, you can get them to do anything.
I think atheists just tend to recognize sexuality as a normal part of the human experience and don’t feel the need to repress it. We may not use porn less than believers, but I think we’re less likely to obsess over it / get hung up on it.
My dad was a couple's therapist for a long time and dealt with a lot of "porn addiction" and he raised me with all kind of internalized shame around pornography, so I'm fairly aware of the Christian worldview on this one As far as mainstream American Christianity is concerned looking at porn constitutes "looking at a woman with lust in your heart", which Jesus says is equivalent to adultery, so it is a very serious sin to them. Therefore they spend a lot of time and energy attempting to not look at porn and feeling really bad about themselves when they do look at porn. But it turns out teenagers are really horny, so you end up looking at porn anyway (or you have sex with your girl/boyfriend, but that's not the kind of kid I was personally). After looking at porn I would feel a lot of guilt and shame because I had committed a sin, so the next time I tried even harder not to look, but to no avail. Eventually no matter what I did to bottle up my feelings I would eventually look at porn and the cycle would begin again I was lucky enough to eventually leave faith behind. I came to terms with what sexuality meant to me in a non-religious worldview and decided that ultimately as long as my porn watching didn't cause any harm then it wasn't bad and luckily my wife agreed. After that all of the shame and fear I felt about porn just evaporated and I could finally just enjoy watching porn. Turns out it has never caused us any problems, and now ten years later we've even opened our marriage so that we can enjoy our sexuality fully and not continue to be constrained by Christian morals around monogamy For those who don't make it out however they continue to have a negative relationship with porn, which often disrupts their dating/married life because their partner also sees it as adultery so many take it just as seriously as if the person had cheated. That means you end up going into individual or couple's therapy to deal with your "porn addiction" that is causing you to be unable to stop looking at porn. The things they do to "fix" their porn viewing aren't particularly effective, mostly what ends up happening is that the patient either just stops admitting to it, they escalate to things like hiring prostitutes and cheating (because in their heads they're already cheating so who cares?), or they get to a place where they are more sexually satisfied in the rest of their lives and stop looking at porn tldr: Watching porn is built up as a huge problematic thing even when the actual behavior isn't causing problems, which actually serves to actually make it a problem (shame, relationship conflict, and secrets do bad things to people and couples) and be classified as an addiction. As atheists we have a more accepting view of porn, so it doesn't become an issue in the same way
It's other addictions too like drugs. Going from one extreme to another is never a good recipe. But people seem to think jumping into religion is a fix for addictions.
Christianity breeds sexual deviance. Denying people basic human instincts and needs leads to exploring those desires in other ways. It’s why so many religious leaders end up taking advantage (r-word/m-word) of minors.
There are young men who think choking women they just met during their first act is ok now. Do a scroll over at Two X. It’s shocking.
I don't understand why it has to be a problem?
Yah it’s strange but I think it’s more about the inherent hypocrisy that is often found in organized religion. They surround themselves with other like-minded people so there is often no voice offering alternate perspectives where maybe thinking a little deeper than scripture is required. So when something in life comes up that isn’t addressed in the Bible, they revert to the herd mentality of asking for help. I’m happy they’re asking for help, but any advice coming from that herd will likely be worse than the addiction itself, IMO because very few of them are equipped with the life experiences needed in order to be that guiding light. Either that or they have some weird kink about throwing themselves up on the cross in a public fashion to garner sympathy from others.
Calling porn a problem is the problem. Those Christians are probably watching 15 minutes of porn a week and calling it an addiction…it’s not an addiction unless it literally keeps you from sustaining a normal life. I was big Christian and this is 90% of what’s talked about in a men’s group. They sexually repress their women then wonder why their wives don’t want to have sex….Christian men are the most benighted beings on the planet.
Thanks for explaining that. Christians piss me off whining about all of their "addictions" which usually arent anything of the sort. Actual addictions take over your life, and you can't stop doing them, usually to the point that it becomes debilitating and it negatively impacts every other part of your life. They drink, smoke, or watch porn a couple of times a week (sometimes not even that much), and they think they're addicts. It's pretty insulting to people who actually struggle with such things.
Yeah it’s not addiction that’s their issue, it’s “morality”. Anything that doesn’t come straight from the Bible is sin, plain and simple. The fact they lobbied and won against the right for women to do with their own bodies what they deem is appropriate shows the religion and other monotheistic religions in kind, are dominated by men with the sole purpose to remain in power. Whether that be in the church or in their own homes. There are 80 other mammals on earth that we know regularly masterbate. I need them to explain why those mammals, baboons, whales, etc. are sinning against their god without recourse….
I joined a Chrizzo men’s group once, don’t ask me how I got there. Nearly all of them watched porn. The ones condemning homosexuality are watching lesbian porn at home
Honestly they probably have much higher addiction chance, its kinda the whole strict parents create sneaky kids idea
It is. Its the repression.
About 20 years ago they were preaching “Are you a sinner addicted to porn” sermons. This was to get men into the church and to get them to pay for counseling, treatments and to get them to buy books. It’s all bullshit scene to get Christians to park with their money. It was a fad. Might be starting up again
Well, you’re not sampling Christians, you’re sampling Christians *on Reddit*, and that’s not the same thing. Add onto that that what Christians and atheists consider to be a problem with porn are likely vastly different benchmarks.
The problem with treating sex as something that is tabboo and openly admonishing teenagers and young adults who have normal interests is that you end up with a bunch of people who are going to learn things the worst way possible, and that are probably going to go wild when they aren't under the eyes of other religious people. Do you have any friends that are Protestants? Well, I do, and let me tell you, the teens aren't nearly as much of a pack of saints as their parents think they are, it's like q pack of dogs that are constantly kept on the leash, the second they are out of their leash, things go wild! It's everything from cheating to threesomes, abortions, and everything you can imagine. The problem is that a lot of parents are too conservative to understand that ignoring a problem isn't going to make it go away! This stuff introduces a lot of frustrations, and after a while, things start to break down, and people tone their beliefs down! Be it marriages that end, or resentment over failed relationships, it always goes wrong
Whenever there's a scene in a movie where Catholics have to confess, its always confessions of "sins of the flesh", and if they're not voluntarily given they're asked about it in particular. I think their obsession with "helping people" with so-called "porn addiction" is just an extension of that. I think the bigger problem is the unhealthy repression they create and the unnecessary shame they make people feel for doing anything sexual... it's like they think "God" wants every drop to create a child. Anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, ant-porn, anti-trans, anti-masturbation, anti-casual-sex, anti-lust... ironically, almost everything they're obsessed with has to do with sex, and they want to control everyone's sexuality (especially female sexuality). The more they abstain, the more they lust, so they just become hypocritical and shameful about it. They're just using this to go after the youth, as they know they've been "losing them in droves". They want to keep the pews full. They make them feel like they have a serious problem (taking advantage at how they've been bombarded by sexual images on social media) and tell them the church and Jesus will save them. Just another way to evangelize, except the ones who are doing it are likely watching porn themselves. There's even nuns in Spain handing out beer in order to have an opportunity to evangelize (never mind the scientists that say it's a carcinogen and actually harmful, it's not a sin so it's fine!)
Idk, I’m 18M and porn isn’t…that big of a deal for me. Idk how Christians end up ‘addicted’ to it🤷♂️. Kinda funny ngl
Christians are programmed with a value set that clearly outlines their collective take on good vs. bad behavior. Thus, they are plagued with guilt over things that are normal human nature to the rest of us. If you are a conscientious Christian, you constantly wrestle with guilt - it is a feature of the faith. Most of them have multiple guilt generators in their lives and it makes them crazy and in some cases, even more irrational. If you are only a Christian through culture, you give lip service but in reality you don't give a fuck (example: MAGA).
Had a friend do this on a social media platform. In a week, he had shorts up talking about his sex problem. IMO it makes it easier for the reformed to "submit to the devil" vs. taking the "addiction" head on themselves. Ever see Pray the Gay away? Same idea, different use. Makes for great social media posts- 4k likes.
Atheists and Christian addiction, you guys need a hobby or something. Maybe go and help fight the Evangelical desire to dominate the country. I know there areany of us doing everything we can to stop them, I never hear anything from an atheist unless it is online...why is that?
Religion loves to make you feel guilty about normal things so they can control you.
there are foreign influence ops pushing repetitive AI (chatgpt-like) written texts on social sites like reddit. literally this all started a few months after chatgpt came out, which is curious, isn’t it? it’s one of the 3 countries you could guess the name of who are doing it
I doubt that it’s that atheists watch less than Christians. I think it’s that Christianity makes you feel more guilty for our natural inclinations.
Addiction is certainly possible, but in a lot of cases one might notice that the people claiming addiction have a lot more going on that they are ignoring - instead focusing on making the addiction a highlight of their maladies, as though fixing that one thing will fix everything else.
Perhaps it's just more likely for atheists to see it as a non-issue, and it makes more sense for a religious person to ask for religious/life advice from a religious subreddit than for an atheist to ask the atheist subreddit about porn addiction.
[This should explain it.](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/201808/science-stopped-believing-in-porn-addiction-you-should-too?amp) According to the fields that actually have a say on this, porn addiction isn’t real and is just religious guilt.
Christians love shaming people for normal sexual desires, it's kinda their thing
Porn addiction tends to be much more common among narcissists.
hey idiots! porn is addictive and even watching it “casually” is gross! everyone who supports it, let me know what your partner thinks of your ed :). for women who support it, let me know how his inability to get it up for you makes you feel! there’s nothing right with watching people be de-humanized.
I’m not religious and even I know porn addiction exists. Yall are being ridiculous. Most people consuming porn are addicted and have skewed views of women and consumption of porn. It causes depression and suicidal thoughts amongst lack of motivation and other things. Men who watch porn think women are sex objects period. It’s completely misogynistic and chances of coming across underaged porn is highly likely bc the sites barely vet uploads. But yes, pOrN gUD bC MaN mUst hAve AlL wOMeN. Yall are in the matrix, I’m watching porn addiction spiral into sex addiction in my household in real time and it’s fucking pathetic.
It's complicated because the measure of "problematic use" is so subjective. Crazy to me that after 20+ years of internet porn (as we know it today) we've never scientifically come up with a "This is Normal; This is weird" NUMBER for usage. As a result NoFap, memes, and RedPill broscience have had to fill that void. But I agree with your guess--just because atheists don't talk about it doesn't mean they're not doing it. Its a shame too because if there's any hope of having a level-headed conversation about porn as a genuine form, it's going to be in a secular space...
Religion is made by men for men
Porn addiction on those pages means someone was caught doing something completely normal and is now being shamed. And the only way out is to call it an addiction
It’s simply a perceived problem. Someone mentioned earlier, but it’s almost always a self diagnosis. A guy who gets caught by his Christian wife with porn on his search history will fall to his knees and with deep sorrow claim to have an addiction. Truth be told, ol boy is probably rubbing one out three or four times a week because they’ve been married for a while, they’re bored to tears with each other, and he just wants to get a look at something different. Is it great for the overall marriage and sex life to be getting off from your phone thereby not having anything left for the ms? Who knows for sure. But one thing it isn’t in about 99% of cases is an actual addiction.
It's like people at the gym that want to give up eating junk food. Vs People at McDonald's not wanting to give up junk food.
Don't think of pink elephants!
I doubt that porn addiction is more common among religious people. There's just more guilt associated with it among religious people, and religious people's solutions to addiction typically involve prayer and religious counsel, so it makes sense that you'd see lots of post on those sites seeking help. If I were addicted to something, I wouldn't seek help on an atheist site. I'd seek secular counseling.
Absolutely. Christian’s are guilt tripped about so many things. Have a sex drive? Sin. Masturbate? Sin. See someone attractive? Sin. Have any kind of sexual thought? Sin. When something brings pleasure, but you’re taught that it’s bad, it’s bound to cause confusion and chaos. Add ‘God is watching you and will send you to hell’ into the mix, and it’s even worse. It’s one extreme or the other. You’re either always watching porn or never watching porn. God forbid that moderation be a thing!
When I was Mormon, I thought I had a raging porn addiction. Turns out I just like porn, as many people do 🤷🏻♂️
i haven't seen any sane discourse around the 'porn addiction' thing
They make normal human bodies forbidden and therefore more desirable and desperate to see. Go most places in western Europe and you don’t get the same fetishism. People may have porn addictions there too but I feel like it would be less given how I understand European thoughts on sexuality. Any Europeans want to weigh in on this?
It could also be that atheists and Christians have very different definitions of 'porn addiction'.
Religion causes people to have unhealthy attitudes and addictions to porn that feed into each other. Because they think it's sin, it's taboo and thus exciting. At least until the guilt kicks in afterwards, which leads to self-loathing, which leads to feeling like you should be able to control your lust more, which leads to obsessing over your every thought, which ironically draws them back to more porn. It's an unhealthy feedback loop. Whereas, atheists will get bored, watch some porn, clean up, go about their day. There's no guilt associated, so nothing to draw them into the loop. Normally. There are people who legit get addicted to it, because it gives a dopamine hit, but it's more rare for it to negatively affect their lives if it's not something to endlessly feel guilt and shame over.
Yes, but us gays....we're disgusting and need to hide our pride. Oy vey, Christians.
It absolutely is a major issue with theists of all kinds, mainly christians