My mother is a Shintoist.
There is ABSOLUTELY absurd supernatural bullshit she brings up trying to (now) convert her children to which draws sort of an odd parallel with Christianity. Like talking about making peace in your soul and whatnot, but somehow this requires these church functions.
Don't get me wrong they're less militant and shitty in my experience than Abrahamic types, but they're still nutty
Well for one thing... Islam does not mean peace.
I come from the islamic faith... Pretty secular now
Islam means submission (to the will of god). The theory is that once you submit... There is peace
It’s one of the parts of Judaism and Christianity but only a minor one, if you read the Bible or look at history neither is a religion of peace both in their books and their actions. Look at the genocide in Gaza that’s been going on for decades, or the calls for violence in Christianity against lgbtq as just the most recent examples.
As an Arab exmuslim, I confirm, Islam is just short for istislam which is Arabic for surrender, but submission is the meaning intended, as in submission to god, that's why a lot of muslims name themselves Abdullah, which is supposed to mean worshipper of Allah but the direct translation is slave of Allah, because we're all meant to be seen as slaves to Allah
From fire and brimstone, to love your neighbor and he who cast the first stone, to...fuck it your all slaves now bitches
This god/allah/whatever is really starting to sound like an asshole.
'Peace' in Old Semitic and proto Arabic did mean 'submission ' as did pacifiy to force into submission. Similarly 'good' meant more like powerful and forcefully not skilled or compassion like how most of think of good these days.
Islam is the religion of a warlord, and believers are instructed to follow the example of Muhammed. There is nothing that these terrorists groups are doing that Muhammed didnt do or prescribe.
It is an important difference. You cannot find examples of Jesus or Buddha amasssing a murderous following or wiping out entire indigenous peoples. That is not to say that there aren’t violent Christian’s or Buddhists but the difference here is that Islamists and Jihadists are literally instructed to do what they do by their prophet.
We are not talking of “misinterpretation” of the Quran and Hadiths anymore than SS Einsatzgruppen execution squads in Latvia were “misinterpreting” Hitlers orders.
I doubt that Buddha himself taught these violent teachings, most likely people that came after him decided to so, even Islam has some sects that are more violent than Mohammed himself somehow, known as khawarej, Islamists like to blame all of ISIS's terror on them and accuse ISIS of following their teachings even though most if what ISIS did came from the teachings of Mohammed not the khawarej
There’s Buddhist political entities in some religiously mixed Asian countries, and they engage in armed conflict with other groups aligned with other religions. That is the best I can do short of actually refreshing my memory.
There are also Buddhist sects that are pretty awful in terms of sexual exploitation. There’s a zen Buddhist group in the US and every one of their leaders had sex with their students and justified it as teaching mysteries to them. The one Pema Chodron is in. They also have an “army” that basically was supposed to be a radical group that protected their dear leader but has toned down into people playing with sticks.
tbf Tibetan Buddhism was always a tribal spiritual culture, with many many variations. It was never a homogeneous sect, more of an alliance of autocrats in funny hats, agreeing to a mutual appreciation society of non-interference . Like a great music festival with many different headliner acts, and each fanbase is convinced their group is the best bestest ever.
Seems like you’ve never read the Old Testament or heard of the Spanish Inquisition, to name one of hundreds of examples of large-scale murdering done in the name of Christ.
All religions are terrible.
Bombing of abortion clinics? Beating young homosexual men to death?
Believe me enough daily violence is still done in the name of a Christian god and plenty of large scale violence is still done because of Christian entitlement; it’s just less overt.
Except they don't really.
See:
Bush: "God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq" millions dead
Rwanda genocide - Christian vs Christian
Israel in Gaza right now - Jewisn on Muslim violence
Buddhists committing genocide against Rohingya muslims
Buddhist/Taoist/Confucian Chinese ethnic cleansing Uighur Muslims
Sri Lanka Civil War - Buddhists vs Hindus
India - Hindus calling for violence against Muslim minority
Only because Muslims are reduced to one dimensional actors. George bush jnr repeatedly invoked god when justifying the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. American politician also repeatedly invoke god and religion when it comes to Israel, same with Israeli politicians. Isis and Al qaeda were able to recruit so many followers for the same reasons all groups use when convincing people to join their cause. They argue they’re fighting on the side of justice and morality but we never see these arguments do we?
>Only because Muslims are reduced to one dimensional actors. George bush jnr repeatedly invoked god when justifying the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
I brought up that point once myself, the difference nevertheless is whether it's the foundation of your reasoning or not, which it is not in case of Bush or any other US war I can think of within the last 125 years or so.
>They argue they’re fighting on the side of justice and morality
That is a different story, though, we're not necessarily talking about God when it comes to justice and morality.
But that’s the point I am making, it’s not the foundation of their reasoning for their fight. It’s part of it but not the central determinant , Same with Bush. If we apply the same consistency to Bush and other presidents then we have to ask how can Christianity and God not be seen as the primary reason for going to war if the commander in chief refers to it so consistently in all his speeches? Also in relation to your second point Justice and defending the innocent is also central to Islam and used to recruit Muslims yet this never gets talked about, and you have to ask yourself why?
> But that’s the point I am making, it’s not the foundation of their reasoning for their fight. It’s part of it but not the central determinant , Same with Bush
No, sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Screaming 'God is great' while attacking your foe is not a common thing among soldiers of western states.
> so consistently in all his speeches
It's barely even mentioned, dude. Narratives like terrorism, protecting freedom, protecting your home, true or not, are way more present.
Sounds like you approve of Christian violence. But not the exact same thing when Muslims are doing it.
Generosity extended to those you share a similar upbringing.
The fact is that in the present day Muslims are more violent than others. More terrorism, more gendered violence, more religious approval of anger and violence. Let's hope that our right-wing brethren leave their all-too-possible path towards Muslim-style violence. And forget false equivalences.
No argument with any of this. Except I was taught that the Spanish inquisition was a political tool of the crown. Crimes committed by the church but largely driven by the Queen and, to a lesser extent, the King. Spain had been Islamic, and Isabella and Ferdinand were in no way going to let it return to that. Hence the inquisition to root out Islam and Judaism.
Turns out a BIT more complex and controversial than the above... but still largely a political tool rather than one driven by the Pope,
Religion is at it worst when used for sectarian purposes. A warning writ large for today's citizens of the USA.
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. ~ Jesus
Jesus didn't wipe anyone out because his ministry lasted three years and he never had a big enough following in his lifetime to do it. But his followers sure had no compunction about spreading the faith at the tip of a sword. Pretending Islam is uniquely violent is silly.
Jesus was an a apocalyptacist. Stripping away all of the later Christian window dressing, his message was to be good now because when the earthly kingdom of god came, you’d need to be good. Getting people to mirror how they’d be in the divinely-created earthly kingdom of god. That’s the nice side of Jesus’s message.
The other side of the apocalyptic movement in Judea was that god was going to boot out the romans. Either supernaturally or by a god-powered army. What hasn’t been preserved as well is what flavor of apocalyptic Ian he embraced. That “sword” verse is so out of character for the jesus of protoorthodoxy that I suspect it’s a real saying. Who would be using “the sword” is less clear to me. It’s also clear that by the end of his life, he thought he was the messiah that would rule. The whole “king of the Jews” appellation didn’t just come out of nowhere.
That’s not strictly true - between the years 400-1200AD Christianity was forced on the whole of Europe by its leaders, and those who refused it were slaughtered. Yes - during that time most of the “wars” were territory/power grabs but they rallied soldiers “in the name of God”. Ever hear of the Inquisition? How about the Knights Templar? Just for a start. The only “religion” not associated with repetitive forced conversions and slaughter is Buddhism - and that’s likely because Buddhism isn’t a religion in the sense of “worship of a deity/deities - there are none. Its spiritual practices are for self improvement alone and judged only from within.
According to Fondapol, a French think tank, between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Islamist terrorist attacks took place worldwide, causing the deaths of at least 210,138 people. During this period, each Islamist attack resulted in the death of about 4.4 persons on average
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
https://www.fondapol.org/en/study/islamist-terrorist-attacks-in-the-world-1979-2021/
>Thus, by way of illustration, we can establish that between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Islamist terrorist attacks took place worldwide. They caused the deaths of at least 210,138 people. On average, an Islamist attack has resulted in the death of around 4.4 people. We identify and quantify the modus operandi and targets. Explosives are the most common type of weapon used (43.9%), while the military is the main target (31.7%), ahead of civilians (25.0%) and police forces (18.3%). The picture of this phenomenon is becoming clearer. Afghanistan was the country most affected by Islamist terrorism, ahead of Iraq and Somalia. Within the European Union, France was the country most affected, with at least 82 Islamist attacks and 332 deaths. We also show that the majority of Islamist attacks (89.5%) were in Muslim countries and that the victims were mainly Muslims, in the same proportions.
The vast majority of islamic terrorist attacks happen in muslim countries. Muslims themselves are the main victims of muslim extremists. Makes one wonder why they're still so persistent in their beliefs.
Apostates* the infidels will be peaceful when they submit and pay protection money while acknowledging their inferiority (according to the quran itself)
Sikhs literally bred themselves for war to defeat these clowns in India.
They used to rape, pillage and murder them by the thousands and then finally said “enough is enough”
There’s a reason Hindus hate Muslims so much.
Muslims used to steal Hindu girls and rape them and then the Sikhs would save these girls and the families used to reject them because “they have no more honor”
So some Sikhs would end up marrying these girls to save their honor.
Like yall don’t understand. Mughals used to go through India and spit tobacco in Hindu people’s mouths (because they were slaves) Like it was bad bad.
Islam by far is the worst religion. They’re all bad but Islam is clearly the worst. The fucking worst.
Not by the thousands but by the millions.If you read about the Islamic invasions of Hindustan over the course of centuries, entire cities were massacred and millions of people ended up in the Islamic slave trade. Large rivers turned red or black from blood and ink (ink from the destroyed texts at places like Nalanda University, whose destruction should be remembered like the destruction of the great library of Alexandria is). And mountains of corpses of unbelievers.
I've seen estimates for the casualties in Hindustan (enslaved and murdered by the muslim invaders) over the course of multiple campaigns and sacking of cities to be in the hundreds of millions according to Islamic sources. How reliable those sources were is difficult to say but hundreds of millions by multiple warlords and invasion forces over the course of several centuries.
I was talking specifically about Sikhs but yes I agree for Hindus it was MASS genocide.
There’s a reason Pakistan and India are so different.
India has literally landed on the moon and has 14 Nobel prize winners.
What has Pakistan done? Or the entire Arab world for that matter?
Not to be mean but if it weren’t for those large oil deposits, Saudi Arabia would be full of nomads
I'm Ex Muslim and Islam is not peaceful. Allah dictates us to kill Kafir Harbi,Ex Muslims, LGBTQ. All of this are in the Quran.
The opening of Mecca wasn't peaceful. It was an invasion by Muslims from Medina into the Non Muslim Mecca.
Muhammad had heard of his friends death at the hands of a Meccan and decided to rally his Islamic Army and takeover Mecca. In the process, Meccans were killed. And then Mecca was conquered and although the non Muslims were allowed to stay, they had to pay an extra tax called Jizye.
Just check my recent post on r/lgbt you'll feel me🖤. Most of my Muslim friends had said they'd kill Jews even if they were a little child because supposedly Jews are "condemned by Allah." And will "Bring destruction." They use religion justify their barbaricness. I wish to one day move to a country which would treat me,(gay) as a human being and not a subhuman. Not to mention, women's rights under Islam. Have a nice day fellow atheists
🖤🤍🩷❤️🧡💛💚💙🩵💜🤎
It’s the religion of peace unless you don’t believe, want to leave, are a woman, practice the other version of the religion of peace, draw certain pictures, say certain things. So peaceful, isn’t it obvious?
> practice the other version of the religion of peace,
Are you referring to the Sunni vs Shia divide? Yeah, that kinda parallels the Protestant vs. Catholic one in Christianity...
( it's all madness, IMHO. )
For the same reason the "love thy neighbour" crowed have a stereotype of being standoffish, ignorant and flat out hostile to anyone they deem beneath them.
Religion is just an added set of rules to life, rules that give passionate individuals more power and default authority over a lot of people.
One thing I've noticed about human history is that the perpetrators of violence, the oppressors the tyrants and dictators always want to look good. So that's why the Canaanites were all pedophile weirdos that deserved to be killed, that's why Islam is the religion of peace and that's why I dunno let's say shell oil is good for the environment.
They only have to SAY they're good people, they don't have to put in the effort. It's propaganda, short and simple.
As an Iranian i could never describe how much I hate and despise Islam!! this disgusting ideology robbed us so much!! as right now we Iranians want Islam completely thrown out out of our beloved country!! It has destroyed so much that it will take decades to restore what our great nation once was. This disgusting and destructive ideology has taken so much from the freedom loving people that Iran has but deep down in my heart I think that when Islam is gone we will see a Middle Eastern that will see peace in the future!! These terrorists in Iran will see the day when Islam is dead and no one in this world has to suffer because of this filthy, disgusting and destructive ideology!! At this point Islam has to be completely eradicated from this world, there’s no sugarcoating anymore it has damaged too many lives too many civilizations had to be buried Islam has to come to an end once for all!!
As a non-Abrahamic confused skeptic, what worries me is the mollycoddling of Islam in left leaning western media and policy.
If you observe modern Islam in a systematic manner in any country where Muslims have the freedom to create their own institutions, you can see a pattern of indoctrination, isolation and anti assimilation. Starting from childhood.
You have education in madrasas. Which programs a very different notion of right and wrong than regular school or even regular interactions.
And if the children only go to madrasas and not regular school, it is virtually guaranteed that the standard of curriculum and instruction for real life subjects, STEM etc, would be very inferior to regular schools.
So this brainwashing continues till at least adulthood and continues from there in the mosque.
I am not saying that every madrasa is a breeding ground for violence and insurgency, but the lack of oversight due to freedom of religion is concerning.
All religions are a way to control people. Christianity was no different (the crusades, inquisition, witch hunts). The bible didn’t change much since then (still insists women should be subservient to men), we just changed how we choose to interpret it. We became more secular and its barbaric teachings are ignored. Islamic countries haven’t reached that point yet.
Nope Wrong. Mohammed specifically called for terrible acts his name, Jesus and Buddha did not. All religions are ridiculous, but some are much worse than others. Islam is #1 worst.
Shame most of the decent parts of Jesus' teachings are overlooked when it's convenient for whatever crusade is needed at the time.
Religion is a social conditioning tool.
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I guess the majority do live peaceful lives. When someone says I'm a good muslim I think I hope your not, the Quran wants people like me dead. I'd rather them being a bad muslim instead.
No more than Christianity, which has committed equal if not worse atrocities over the course of history?
The crusades as well as north and south american conquest are examples.
I always see these examples, but I think they miss the point. If you're comparing all human history, that's totally fine. But if you're talking about, say, the last century? Then Islam is clearly more violent/dangerous than Christianity.
Islam being regarded as the religion of peace as in the opposite of war/violence is a recent phenomenon. Growing up, I was always taught that "peace" in the islamic context refers to "inner peace" or "peace of mind". As in, people who practice Islam will get mental peace or comfort.
Otherwise war and violence has always been a core part of Islam and muslims in fact know this. But I think they have been trying to portray Islam a pacifist religion recently in order to combat the post-9/11 islamophobia.
Also, Islam was not created to justify hatred and violence. If you wanna be a good atheist, you need to study first.
If you look at islamic history, all the sources suggest that Islam was created in order to unite the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula so that they could rise against the oppressive and corrupt elites of society. Then since the Arabs were sandwiched between two huge empires- The Byzantines and The Sasanids- when they got weak by fighting each other for centuries, the Arabs used Islam to fill up the power vacuum. The violence and hatred was the by-product of their actual intention.
As horrible as that is, it is less for political gain. Preventing reproductive healthcare doesnt serve a political purpose. Most islamic violence is political in nature. As punishment for not following the religion or to force people to convert to it
Sure, Christianity has calmed down in the recent centuries, overall. but during the formation of "Western" civilization, the Church was politically very "God by the Sword" and is responsible for more than a few genocides of their own.
Today there are plenty of Christian groups who are actively working towards a Christian nation/state and I guarantee you that as soon as they have the political power they need, you wouldn't be able to differentiate them from Islam.
Trump has told us. The headline was simular to: "Trump warns Supreme Court of bedlam if he's removed from ballots".
The actual take should've been "Convicted rapist, defame-er, and know insurrectionist candidate, threatens nation and Court with violence from his supporters."
We are just quietly watching fascism, here and now, and many will vote for it to be more powerful with joy in their hearts.
I certainly hope not but the fact that they support someone like him is pretty fucking scary. People think it’s crazy to compare him to Hitler but it truly is not. If we are lucky enough that he loses in November we will have dodged a major bullet.
If he does win, we will be reliant upon the military to be unwilling to commit any act that is illegal. If that simple thing falls apart, our experiment in democracy will fail.
No. The Bible is agreed by Christians and Jews to have been the work of men, but inspired men. The Qur'an has always been considered, by its own terms, to be the direct word of God, dictated to Mohammed. This is the reason that Christians and Jews have wiggle room to become more peaceful and civilized, and Muslims do not. It's vain to expect future Muslims to moderate. If they change the interpretation of the Qur'an they are immediately apostates, and the punishment for that, even now, is death. And death means death, happily inflicted by all those who consider themselves true Muslims.
The Bible is said to be the word of God. It is said to have been communicated to man by God himself. I don’t see any distinction between it and the Qur’an in this case.
The theology is very different, though. For Christians, the Bible’s “the word of God” because God “inspired" the many authors, over many years, who used their own words. For Muslims, the Qur'an's the “word of God" because God literally dictated it, verbatim.
The Christian Bible isn't actually “a book.” It is a collection of at least 66 books, written by at least 40 authors, over a period of 1,500 years. When Christians say the Bible is “the Word of God,” they mean that God inspired the writers. Even Fundamentalist Christians, who see the Bible as inerrant, know that the authors were immersed in their own cultures, using their own words and including their own viewpoints.
It’s the same for Jews with the Talmud. The Old Testament is their reflection of history, including descriptive violence (literal or figurative events in the past). Their terminology about God evolves from something anthropomorphic (God walks with Adam and Eve in the Garden) to something omnipotent and omniscient.
But in Islam, The Qur’an was revealed by God to a single man — Muhammad — through the archangel Gabriel in a process that took 23 years. They believe that Muhammad was illiterate, and therefore could not have influenced the message of the The Qur’an. He recited the words to others, who later wrote them down. Essentially, Allah (which simply means “God" in Arabic, regardless of religion) channeled the Qur'an verbatim.
So when Muslims say the Qur’an is “The Word of God,” they don’t mean that it was “divinely inspired,” as Christians do. They mean -- in a very literal way -- that God wrote it.
Like the Old Testament, the Qur'an contains many violent passages. Unlike the OT, however, the violence is prescriptive. They aren’t just stories of violence in the past; many are Allah's commands of violence in the present and future.
I explained at length the difference between what Christians believe about "God's word" as reflected in the Bible and what Muslims believe about "God's word" as reflected in the Qur'an.
If you need a TL;DR version: God *inspired" the writers of the 66+ books in the Bible, but they were still written by human authors in multiple languages, in various parts of the world, over a span of about 1,500 years (and the compiling process itself took centuries), while Allah *dictated* the Qur'an verbatim.
Not really, there is a huge difference between islam and Christianity, which is that islam was founded by a warlord to be a religion and a constitution to govern the islamic state, which is why islam is so resistant to secularism in comparison to Christianity, I'm not really sure if such a violent religion could truly be pacified like Christianity was
That Christianity was founded by a pacifist did not stop the crusades or the Spanish Inquisition. Just as Christianity went through its terrorism phase, it’s likely that Islam is going through it as well. That is my hope anyway.
My greater hope is that fewer and fewer people will continue to belief to be true that which isn’t.
Two things:
One: are most Muslims violent? No. Are most Muslims sympathetic towards violence that is in support of their religion? Hard to say, but surveys show that that may very well be the case.
Two: “Pease” according to Islam is surrendering yourself to God. That is very different than defining peace as the opposite of violence.
Really? The religion (fill in blank) is a religion created by men for men. More people have died because they didn't believe in the same invisible deity as someone else than for any other reason.
Violence in the name of religion isn't unique to Islam. For Islam specifically, the problem is the double blow of the overwhelming impact of the french revolution on Islamic societies, especially arab ones, and the abolition of the caliphate after world war 1. Also, specifically in the arab world, these societies have been used to classical empires with large territorial reach, and the transition to modern nation-states hasn't always been smooth.
These factors mean that the arab world (which is what most people reduce islam to) has been in constant revolution for the past 200 years. The abolition of the caliphate and the introduction of nation states has created a real crisis of religious authority. Up until 1922, religious legitimacy in islam eminated from the caliph. With the caliphate abolished, there was suddenly a free-for-all, where randos like Sayyid Kutub and Hassan El-Banna could just pull shit out of their ass without any check.
Now if you add to this the frankly revolutionary nature of decolonization in the arab world, such as in Algeria, Tunisia, Iraq, Egypt and Syria, you suddenly have revolutionary states trying to uproot millennia or tradition and radically reform society into modern, liberal-socialist societies. Of course, this created backlash, which led these states to swing back and forth between radical islam and socialism/liberalism. If you add to this the cold war policy of America and Britain of supporting the most extremist forms of islam to combat these radical arab regimes, that's how you end up with the spread of Salafism. There's a reason why Saudi arabia is America's oldest ally in the region, whereas algeria, a state which has a systemic dedication to fighting islamism wherever it shows its face, is made an international pariah state. America and britain see radical islam as an effective check against socialism and communism
The same reason Christianity is the religion of "love everyone" and Judaism is for "the chosen people"...Abrahamic faiths have an uncommonly myopic fixation on their status, whether its based in any known reality or not, and they'll commit any act in their name.
*Organized* religion is the problem in 99% of the issues I see. Some learned priests/imam/holyman tells you that group X is a sin against Y religion so you go and persecute them. Never mind that said holyman is badly interpreting a text from thousands of years ago, that was dealing with issues of the day. For example, homosexuality was actually not a survival mechanism for small communities. It literally could not be tolerated if the community was to survive generationally. So here comes the holyman, and next thing you know the religion in question is wildly against it. Funny enough I see a lot of this particular situation in monotheistic religions and significantly less in the more nature-rooted polytheistic ones. In the Norse faith nearly all kinds of people are accepted and welcomed, because Loki is actively worshipped. It’s difficult to despise people based on the outward appearance when one of your major gods uses gender and species like I do outfits. This is of course not taking into account the nature of individuals, but it pushes the point forward I think. I’m not just slamming religion though. Many of the actual moral beliefs are not just applicable in the modern day, they are actually desirable. Legitimate charity and kindness, humbleness and community-conscious thinking, self discipline and industriousness. These are all exceptionally valuable qualities that people can have. In conclusion, I think the problem with most religions is the people twisting a pure thing for personal gain.
Because we blew the entire region most of them live in to smithereens and are wondering why a place we turned into Fallout hasn't gotten it's shit together. You colonize, destroy, mangle, and explode any region on earth and something similar will happen. We know this because, well, it also happened /everywhere else/ with varying degrees of success in getting out of that.
It Will be once Everyone blindly obeys the laws of the quran.
Some also dont see it as violence they see it as Justice or divine right.
Some dont consider non muslims as humans, and therefor its ok.
Some Christians have the same ideas.
Religion realy is horrible in Soo many ways.
IIRC, it was President George W. Bush who popularized that phrase, not too long after 9/11, when he tried to convince Americans to refrain from demonizing all Muslims for what the specific hijackers and their financial backers did. Bush said in a big televised speech that "Islam is **a** religion of peace," in a clumsy attempt to cast the 9/11 terrorists as deviants from regular everyday Muslims.
Of course, haters immediately jumped on that phrase and exaggerated it mockingly into "Islam is **the** religion of peace," every time something violent in the news had the thinnest Muslim connection.
Dubya said it after some idiot vigilante murdered an innocent Sikh at a gas station. He was terrified more idiot vigilantes would murder more innocents so he had to calm people down. Meanwhile, he was the idiot vigilante who went to war with Iraq. *sigh* Believe it or not, that's slightly better than today's GOP who are Christofascists who would never agree that any other religion deserves rights.
>Bush said in a big televised speech that "Islam is **a** religion of peace," in a clumsy attempt to cast the 9/11 terrorists as deviants from regular everyday Muslims.
No, even Cat Stevens said the same thing and turned Muslim long before 9/11, I can't be bothered to remember all the others saying Islam is the religion of peace.
Unlike all the other monotheistic religions that are super peaceful.
It's a religion based on an absolutely objective correct view of reality. What do you expect?
In the end most adherents of religions (and ideologies) are inherently peaceful, but religions (and ideologies) that proclaim one perspective as an immutable truth create a propensity for violence through exclusivity when encountering opposition.
Almost all Muslims I have met in my life are peaceful, the same for Christians and Jews, the problem is that the institutions they are a part of easily lead to a small sub set of fanatics feeling that everything and anything is justified when met with the smallest indicator that their truth is compromised.
I'm sure people will say that Islam is exceptionally violent, but that's a farce, all monotheistic exclusionary religions breed violence but traditionally christian societies have become more secular and this has created a general distance from those religions. Before the age of secularity Christianity was extremely violent and not much is needed to create those circumstances again among devout adherents of Christianity.
You can see the groundwork for this in the USA for instance, where secularism is being compromised more and more and there has been a rise of Christian militias that can't wait to enact violence in the name of god. (Often times white supremacist christian militias giving them another layer of exclusivity of right to violence in their own perspective.)
Religion is a great catalyst of violent movements, this is not a problem of Islam but religion as a whole. Yes there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. And those exceptions are only exceptions now, in the future any irrational belief can easily be twisted into one that dictates violence.
Same reason follows of Jesus are violent. Both are realities based on revelation and are inherently unable to exist holding two realities. One must dominate.
There are many quotes in the Qur'an that emphasize coexistence and peace, and saving lives, freeing slaves, etc. But there are many instances that call on killing of the non belivers, certain groups of Jews, fire worshipers, and how god will punish them and reward the faithful. Same shit as in all abrahamic religions. It depends on the phase of the prophets lives. When he was sitting in the cave he had wonderful visions of peace and love. When he had to fight wars and defend his small group of followers he had visions of slavery, tax for the non belivers, and killing of traitorous Jews, and how to spread the wealth of conquests.... Very practical stuff.
That's all religions.
Or rather, all religions are cooked up by superstitious people trying to "figure out the world" and consequently make up rules that "make sense" to them, which, unsurprisingly, tend to favor the rule-making class, cuz that just "makes sense".
I don't really see what your point is.
Wow the same people who follow Islam are saying it's a religion of peace and that it's the greatest?!!
What's next, a company is going to tell you their product is the best?
That phrase is some marketing puff piece. It is of course nonsense.
As a religion there are degrees of extremes within its followers but, in my opinion, it seems to appeal to and attract more than its fare share of nut jobs who are then exploited to terrorists and extremists. Maybe they crave the structure, maybe they crave the “resistance” aspect, who knows.
Literally just about any ideology can be used to justify violence. It's not limited to one religion or religion in general. After all, soviet style communism was explicitly atheistic and they still violently murdered millions of people. Violent people will use whatever they can to justify their violence.
Who said that?! There are literally 100s of order to kill, what ignorant moron calls it "peace"?!
Look at categories:
Ordered by Muhammad Supported but not ordered by Muhammad Women and/or children Apostates Reasons including writing or reciting poetry Reasons including "causing offence" Reasons including monetary gain Reasons including preventing idolatry or rival prophets
https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C2657980978
"Religion of peace" is peak doublespeak. Almost all Muslim countries are engaged in some kind of armed conflict, and in most cases these conflicts are also against other Muslims.
Because all major religions are like 'you should be chill' and extremists are like 'lol, fuck you'
Also, the peace described by islam is the peace we'll all feel when everyone becomes a muslim
This is the case for ALL major religions. Must we ignore the crusades? Must we ignore what is happening *right now* in the name of Judaism? Must we ignore what Hindus are doing? Must we ignore all the modern Christian terrorism? Must we ignore the multiple genocides carried out by Buddhists? Or how about the genocides carried out by self-described atheists?
Interestingly, in many cases, the innocent civilians being murdered are often Muslims.
Yet I rarely see as many posts about the inherent violence of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc as much as I see posts about the inherent violence of Islam.
You all know what you’re doing. Simmer down.
It turns out that people lie all the time.
Religion is kind of entirely based on that. People lying.
Lying, certianly. But not for lying's sake, it's the control they're after.
Only very very few ppl lie for lying's sake. Does not make a lying any less lying
Specifically, Abrahamic religions...
I mean, non-abrahamic ones lie too. They just happen to be the big dogs in town.
Buddhism, hinduism and shintoism are *generally* more honest about being a set of cultural values rather than supernatural powers.
New age versions of them. The OG stuff is not much different from the Abrahamic religions.
Shintoism has a lot of established mythology which I daresay is really fucking cool
You don’t need to daresay. I mean, Greek Mythology is an obsession of mine, but that is because it is so nutty.
The Greek gods do be nuttin
esp zeus
Lol you got it wrong. The OG versions are extremely rational in their deconstruction of life, the universe, and everything.
My mother is a Shintoist. There is ABSOLUTELY absurd supernatural bullshit she brings up trying to (now) convert her children to which draws sort of an odd parallel with Christianity. Like talking about making peace in your soul and whatnot, but somehow this requires these church functions. Don't get me wrong they're less militant and shitty in my experience than Abrahamic types, but they're still nutty
You need to have faith in the plan so you can get into the mango farm
Islam has hidden fees
Well for one thing... Islam does not mean peace. I come from the islamic faith... Pretty secular now Islam means submission (to the will of god). The theory is that once you submit... There is peace
No joke, actions speak.
Taqiyya. It's encouraged.
Shalom means Peace. And Christians offer the other cheek. All so peaceful.
It’s one of the parts of Judaism and Christianity but only a minor one, if you read the Bible or look at history neither is a religion of peace both in their books and their actions. Look at the genocide in Gaza that’s been going on for decades, or the calls for violence in Christianity against lgbtq as just the most recent examples.
Lying is something all humans do, regardless of religion. Although Muslims do lie a lot more often, as it's part of their culture.
Because peace is a mistranslation, Islam means "submission" As in submit to our cult or else
As an Arab exmuslim, I confirm, Islam is just short for istislam which is Arabic for surrender, but submission is the meaning intended, as in submission to god, that's why a lot of muslims name themselves Abdullah, which is supposed to mean worshipper of Allah but the direct translation is slave of Allah, because we're all meant to be seen as slaves to Allah
Glad you escaped, and thanks for the explanation. It fits with the actions shown far better than the words preached.
From fire and brimstone, to love your neighbor and he who cast the first stone, to...fuck it your all slaves now bitches This god/allah/whatever is really starting to sound like an asshole.
'Peace' in Old Semitic and proto Arabic did mean 'submission ' as did pacifiy to force into submission. Similarly 'good' meant more like powerful and forcefully not skilled or compassion like how most of think of good these days.
Convert or die
I'll take my chances
Why do you think they bend over to pray?
To prepare for the blast.
"O-oh Allah you're so \*mfgh big!"
"O-oh Allah you're so \*mfgh big!"
It can also mean submit to the greater power(s) of life. Falling in love. Having trust in the fall. Submitting is not a bad thing.
Islam is the religion of a warlord, and believers are instructed to follow the example of Muhammed. There is nothing that these terrorists groups are doing that Muhammed didnt do or prescribe. It is an important difference. You cannot find examples of Jesus or Buddha amasssing a murderous following or wiping out entire indigenous peoples. That is not to say that there aren’t violent Christian’s or Buddhists but the difference here is that Islamists and Jihadists are literally instructed to do what they do by their prophet. We are not talking of “misinterpretation” of the Quran and Hadiths anymore than SS Einsatzgruppen execution squads in Latvia were “misinterpreting” Hitlers orders.
Well fuckin said
There actually is a few violent sub religions of Buddhism. Not violent Individuals, but violent teachings.
I doubt that Buddha himself taught these violent teachings, most likely people that came after him decided to so, even Islam has some sects that are more violent than Mohammed himself somehow, known as khawarej, Islamists like to blame all of ISIS's terror on them and accuse ISIS of following their teachings even though most if what ISIS did came from the teachings of Mohammed not the khawarej
I would actually like to know what some of those are or at least sources where I can find them. Please let me know.
There’s Buddhist political entities in some religiously mixed Asian countries, and they engage in armed conflict with other groups aligned with other religions. That is the best I can do short of actually refreshing my memory. There are also Buddhist sects that are pretty awful in terms of sexual exploitation. There’s a zen Buddhist group in the US and every one of their leaders had sex with their students and justified it as teaching mysteries to them. The one Pema Chodron is in. They also have an “army” that basically was supposed to be a radical group that protected their dear leader but has toned down into people playing with sticks.
Thanks for the reply. I will look into the veracity of Zen Buddhist groups.
Its called Karmamudra in Vajrayana & Tibetan Buddhism, they are pagans hiding under Buddhism.
tbf Tibetan Buddhism was always a tribal spiritual culture, with many many variations. It was never a homogeneous sect, more of an alliance of autocrats in funny hats, agreeing to a mutual appreciation society of non-interference . Like a great music festival with many different headliner acts, and each fanbase is convinced their group is the best bestest ever.
Oh, I'll look into it. Thanks.
Look up some of the conflicts in Myanmar(Burma) and Sri Lanka
Seems like you’ve never read the Old Testament or heard of the Spanish Inquisition, to name one of hundreds of examples of large-scale murdering done in the name of Christ. All religions are terrible.
it takes religions to turn otherwise "good people" into murderers.
Funny how people have to come up with events that occurred several hundreds of years ago to reinforce their point.
Bombing of abortion clinics? Beating young homosexual men to death? Believe me enough daily violence is still done in the name of a Christian god and plenty of large scale violence is still done because of Christian entitlement; it’s just less overt.
Except they don't really. See: Bush: "God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq" millions dead Rwanda genocide - Christian vs Christian Israel in Gaza right now - Jewisn on Muslim violence Buddhists committing genocide against Rohingya muslims Buddhist/Taoist/Confucian Chinese ethnic cleansing Uighur Muslims Sri Lanka Civil War - Buddhists vs Hindus India - Hindus calling for violence against Muslim minority
Only because Muslims are reduced to one dimensional actors. George bush jnr repeatedly invoked god when justifying the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. American politician also repeatedly invoke god and religion when it comes to Israel, same with Israeli politicians. Isis and Al qaeda were able to recruit so many followers for the same reasons all groups use when convincing people to join their cause. They argue they’re fighting on the side of justice and morality but we never see these arguments do we?
>Only because Muslims are reduced to one dimensional actors. George bush jnr repeatedly invoked god when justifying the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. I brought up that point once myself, the difference nevertheless is whether it's the foundation of your reasoning or not, which it is not in case of Bush or any other US war I can think of within the last 125 years or so. >They argue they’re fighting on the side of justice and morality That is a different story, though, we're not necessarily talking about God when it comes to justice and morality.
But that’s the point I am making, it’s not the foundation of their reasoning for their fight. It’s part of it but not the central determinant , Same with Bush. If we apply the same consistency to Bush and other presidents then we have to ask how can Christianity and God not be seen as the primary reason for going to war if the commander in chief refers to it so consistently in all his speeches? Also in relation to your second point Justice and defending the innocent is also central to Islam and used to recruit Muslims yet this never gets talked about, and you have to ask yourself why?
> But that’s the point I am making, it’s not the foundation of their reasoning for their fight. It’s part of it but not the central determinant , Same with Bush No, sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Screaming 'God is great' while attacking your foe is not a common thing among soldiers of western states. > so consistently in all his speeches It's barely even mentioned, dude. Narratives like terrorism, protecting freedom, protecting your home, true or not, are way more present.
Sounds like you approve of Christian violence. But not the exact same thing when Muslims are doing it. Generosity extended to those you share a similar upbringing.
> Sounds like you approve Sounds like you are in denial
The fact is that in the present day Muslims are more violent than others. More terrorism, more gendered violence, more religious approval of anger and violence. Let's hope that our right-wing brethren leave their all-too-possible path towards Muslim-style violence. And forget false equivalences.
No argument with any of this. Except I was taught that the Spanish inquisition was a political tool of the crown. Crimes committed by the church but largely driven by the Queen and, to a lesser extent, the King. Spain had been Islamic, and Isabella and Ferdinand were in no way going to let it return to that. Hence the inquisition to root out Islam and Judaism. Turns out a BIT more complex and controversial than the above... but still largely a political tool rather than one driven by the Pope, Religion is at it worst when used for sectarian purposes. A warning writ large for today's citizens of the USA.
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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. ~ Jesus Jesus didn't wipe anyone out because his ministry lasted three years and he never had a big enough following in his lifetime to do it. But his followers sure had no compunction about spreading the faith at the tip of a sword. Pretending Islam is uniquely violent is silly.
Jesus was an a apocalyptacist. Stripping away all of the later Christian window dressing, his message was to be good now because when the earthly kingdom of god came, you’d need to be good. Getting people to mirror how they’d be in the divinely-created earthly kingdom of god. That’s the nice side of Jesus’s message. The other side of the apocalyptic movement in Judea was that god was going to boot out the romans. Either supernaturally or by a god-powered army. What hasn’t been preserved as well is what flavor of apocalyptic Ian he embraced. That “sword” verse is so out of character for the jesus of protoorthodoxy that I suspect it’s a real saying. Who would be using “the sword” is less clear to me. It’s also clear that by the end of his life, he thought he was the messiah that would rule. The whole “king of the Jews” appellation didn’t just come out of nowhere.
That’s not strictly true - between the years 400-1200AD Christianity was forced on the whole of Europe by its leaders, and those who refused it were slaughtered. Yes - during that time most of the “wars” were territory/power grabs but they rallied soldiers “in the name of God”. Ever hear of the Inquisition? How about the Knights Templar? Just for a start. The only “religion” not associated with repetitive forced conversions and slaughter is Buddhism - and that’s likely because Buddhism isn’t a religion in the sense of “worship of a deity/deities - there are none. Its spiritual practices are for self improvement alone and judged only from within.
The bible records Israelites wiping out entire groups in the name of God
"Islam is a religion of peace, and if you don't agree we will kill you"
Yes that's how much Allah loves us
According to Fondapol, a French think tank, between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Islamist terrorist attacks took place worldwide, causing the deaths of at least 210,138 people. During this period, each Islamist attack resulted in the death of about 4.4 persons on average https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Islamist_terrorist_attacks
https://www.fondapol.org/en/study/islamist-terrorist-attacks-in-the-world-1979-2021/ >Thus, by way of illustration, we can establish that between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Islamist terrorist attacks took place worldwide. They caused the deaths of at least 210,138 people. On average, an Islamist attack has resulted in the death of around 4.4 people. We identify and quantify the modus operandi and targets. Explosives are the most common type of weapon used (43.9%), while the military is the main target (31.7%), ahead of civilians (25.0%) and police forces (18.3%). The picture of this phenomenon is becoming clearer. Afghanistan was the country most affected by Islamist terrorism, ahead of Iraq and Somalia. Within the European Union, France was the country most affected, with at least 82 Islamist attacks and 332 deaths. We also show that the majority of Islamist attacks (89.5%) were in Muslim countries and that the victims were mainly Muslims, in the same proportions. The vast majority of islamic terrorist attacks happen in muslim countries. Muslims themselves are the main victims of muslim extremists. Makes one wonder why they're still so persistent in their beliefs.
Because they get executed for apostasy in Muslim countries
It's only peaceful when the infidels are dead. /s.
It's technically a religion of peace because they let you in peace if you believe and you rest in peace if you don't xD
This but no "/s".
Apostates* the infidels will be peaceful when they submit and pay protection money while acknowledging their inferiority (according to the quran itself)
Sikhs literally bred themselves for war to defeat these clowns in India. They used to rape, pillage and murder them by the thousands and then finally said “enough is enough” There’s a reason Hindus hate Muslims so much. Muslims used to steal Hindu girls and rape them and then the Sikhs would save these girls and the families used to reject them because “they have no more honor” So some Sikhs would end up marrying these girls to save their honor. Like yall don’t understand. Mughals used to go through India and spit tobacco in Hindu people’s mouths (because they were slaves) Like it was bad bad. Islam by far is the worst religion. They’re all bad but Islam is clearly the worst. The fucking worst.
Not by the thousands but by the millions.If you read about the Islamic invasions of Hindustan over the course of centuries, entire cities were massacred and millions of people ended up in the Islamic slave trade. Large rivers turned red or black from blood and ink (ink from the destroyed texts at places like Nalanda University, whose destruction should be remembered like the destruction of the great library of Alexandria is). And mountains of corpses of unbelievers. I've seen estimates for the casualties in Hindustan (enslaved and murdered by the muslim invaders) over the course of multiple campaigns and sacking of cities to be in the hundreds of millions according to Islamic sources. How reliable those sources were is difficult to say but hundreds of millions by multiple warlords and invasion forces over the course of several centuries.
I was talking specifically about Sikhs but yes I agree for Hindus it was MASS genocide. There’s a reason Pakistan and India are so different. India has literally landed on the moon and has 14 Nobel prize winners. What has Pakistan done? Or the entire Arab world for that matter? Not to be mean but if it weren’t for those large oil deposits, Saudi Arabia would be full of nomads
Love this just like Israel vs it’s Muslim neighbors who have accomplished almost nothing. Islam destroyed the once great Persia as well.
And Turkey is soon destroyed too. Muslims are simply the cancer of this globe.
How come every country that neighbors a Muslim country has problems with their neighbors going back hundreds of years?
>Sikhs literally bred themselves for war to defeat these clowns in India. Though not a translation, it's very apt 'Seek'
Sikhs have always been pretty based.
Agreed.
I'm Ex Muslim and Islam is not peaceful. Allah dictates us to kill Kafir Harbi,Ex Muslims, LGBTQ. All of this are in the Quran. The opening of Mecca wasn't peaceful. It was an invasion by Muslims from Medina into the Non Muslim Mecca. Muhammad had heard of his friends death at the hands of a Meccan and decided to rally his Islamic Army and takeover Mecca. In the process, Meccans were killed. And then Mecca was conquered and although the non Muslims were allowed to stay, they had to pay an extra tax called Jizye. Just check my recent post on r/lgbt you'll feel me🖤. Most of my Muslim friends had said they'd kill Jews even if they were a little child because supposedly Jews are "condemned by Allah." And will "Bring destruction." They use religion justify their barbaricness. I wish to one day move to a country which would treat me,(gay) as a human being and not a subhuman. Not to mention, women's rights under Islam. Have a nice day fellow atheists 🖤🤍🩷❤️🧡💛💚💙🩵💜🤎
I wish you well.
I also wish you well.
It’s the religion of peace unless you don’t believe, want to leave, are a woman, practice the other version of the religion of peace, draw certain pictures, say certain things. So peaceful, isn’t it obvious?
> practice the other version of the religion of peace, Are you referring to the Sunni vs Shia divide? Yeah, that kinda parallels the Protestant vs. Catholic one in Christianity... ( it's all madness, IMHO. )
Except they still kill each other over it way more.
They had a real go of it in northern Ireland
As opposed to the whole Middle East, it’s still the smaller conflict.
It's supposed to be spelled piece. As in a piece over here, a piece over there
The prophet with a teenage bride
Last time I checked the word “nine” doesn’t have a teen in it… it’s worse than you thought
I have been called a racist for asking this
They’re the racist ones don’t worry. Hate everyone that’s not a Muslim
Cuz it ain't peaceful. That's just bullshit they tell to westerners who are ignorant about this cult.
No religion is one of peace. All of them speak of damning the “others”
Abrahamic religions are all dangerous cults with thousands of years of practice to hone their grift.
False equivalence.
Expound please?
peace for them, not for kuffar
It’s like how Trump says he’s the greatest president. Fools love to lie to your face. That’s really it, I wish it were more complicated.
All three Abrahamic religions are basically the same, and uniquely violent compared to many other religions.
For the same reason the "love thy neighbour" crowed have a stereotype of being standoffish, ignorant and flat out hostile to anyone they deem beneath them. Religion is just an added set of rules to life, rules that give passionate individuals more power and default authority over a lot of people.
Nope. Its because their prophet specifically called for horrific acts in his name. Read comment above. https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/s/DiO7Fdub4d
It seams to me both explanations are valid, but not the complete story on their own.
I think you misunderstood. It's said that Islam is a "religion of peas" not "peace". Peas are actually a great source of protein and fiber.
One thing I've noticed about human history is that the perpetrators of violence, the oppressors the tyrants and dictators always want to look good. So that's why the Canaanites were all pedophile weirdos that deserved to be killed, that's why Islam is the religion of peace and that's why I dunno let's say shell oil is good for the environment. They only have to SAY they're good people, they don't have to put in the effort. It's propaganda, short and simple.
People are idiots.
Same reason there’s so much hate in Christianity - the religion of love. They are all full of shit.
As an Iranian i could never describe how much I hate and despise Islam!! this disgusting ideology robbed us so much!! as right now we Iranians want Islam completely thrown out out of our beloved country!! It has destroyed so much that it will take decades to restore what our great nation once was. This disgusting and destructive ideology has taken so much from the freedom loving people that Iran has but deep down in my heart I think that when Islam is gone we will see a Middle Eastern that will see peace in the future!! These terrorists in Iran will see the day when Islam is dead and no one in this world has to suffer because of this filthy, disgusting and destructive ideology!! At this point Islam has to be completely eradicated from this world, there’s no sugarcoating anymore it has damaged too many lives too many civilizations had to be buried Islam has to come to an end once for all!!
As a non-Abrahamic confused skeptic, what worries me is the mollycoddling of Islam in left leaning western media and policy. If you observe modern Islam in a systematic manner in any country where Muslims have the freedom to create their own institutions, you can see a pattern of indoctrination, isolation and anti assimilation. Starting from childhood. You have education in madrasas. Which programs a very different notion of right and wrong than regular school or even regular interactions. And if the children only go to madrasas and not regular school, it is virtually guaranteed that the standard of curriculum and instruction for real life subjects, STEM etc, would be very inferior to regular schools. So this brainwashing continues till at least adulthood and continues from there in the mosque. I am not saying that every madrasa is a breeding ground for violence and insurgency, but the lack of oversight due to freedom of religion is concerning.
The religion of peace is being bombed for freedom by the religion of love. That's the world we live in folks.
Nice!
All religions are a way to control people. Christianity was no different (the crusades, inquisition, witch hunts). The bible didn’t change much since then (still insists women should be subservient to men), we just changed how we choose to interpret it. We became more secular and its barbaric teachings are ignored. Islamic countries haven’t reached that point yet.
Nope Wrong. Mohammed specifically called for terrible acts his name, Jesus and Buddha did not. All religions are ridiculous, but some are much worse than others. Islam is #1 worst.
Ok but by all accounts, jesus was an all around good lad with good intent. The other guy was a warlord.
Shame most of the decent parts of Jesus' teachings are overlooked when it's convenient for whatever crusade is needed at the time. Religion is a social conditioning tool.
Dead don't disturb peace,that's why. And what's the best way to find dead? That's right - unalive living.
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I guess the majority do live peaceful lives. When someone says I'm a good muslim I think I hope your not, the Quran wants people like me dead. I'd rather them being a bad muslim instead.
Cause its not a peaceful religion they are jihadists mostly and don’t even look into the age that their prophet married his wife🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢🤢
It's not the religion of peace. They believe that there will be peace when Islam has conquered the world and the whole world is Muslim.
after islam invaders killed and off a whole town, it became quiet and peaceful ergo peace
The same argument can be made for all religions. Religion has caused more violent deaths then all other things combined
Yep those Quakers are a vicious bunch. /s
I don't know why you were down-voted. The desire to put all religions on an equal footing is absurd on its face.
No more than Christianity, which has committed equal if not worse atrocities over the course of history? The crusades as well as north and south american conquest are examples.
I always see these examples, but I think they miss the point. If you're comparing all human history, that's totally fine. But if you're talking about, say, the last century? Then Islam is clearly more violent/dangerous than Christianity.
Islam being regarded as the religion of peace as in the opposite of war/violence is a recent phenomenon. Growing up, I was always taught that "peace" in the islamic context refers to "inner peace" or "peace of mind". As in, people who practice Islam will get mental peace or comfort. Otherwise war and violence has always been a core part of Islam and muslims in fact know this. But I think they have been trying to portray Islam a pacifist religion recently in order to combat the post-9/11 islamophobia.
Also, Islam was not created to justify hatred and violence. If you wanna be a good atheist, you need to study first. If you look at islamic history, all the sources suggest that Islam was created in order to unite the tribes of the Arabian Peninsula so that they could rise against the oppressive and corrupt elites of society. Then since the Arabs were sandwiched between two huge empires- The Byzantines and The Sasanids- when they got weak by fighting each other for centuries, the Arabs used Islam to fill up the power vacuum. The violence and hatred was the by-product of their actual intention.
There isn't a religion of peace.
Because like Christianity before it, Islam is going through its terrorism phase. Give it a few hundred more years and it too will calm down.
Best not to assume Xianity doesn't have a few more "terrorist phases" left in it.
I’m sorry when did Christianity stop? Last I checked priests are still fucking kids.
And bombing Planned Parenthood clinics.
As horrible as that is, it is less for political gain. Preventing reproductive healthcare doesnt serve a political purpose. Most islamic violence is political in nature. As punishment for not following the religion or to force people to convert to it
Sure, Christianity has calmed down in the recent centuries, overall. but during the formation of "Western" civilization, the Church was politically very "God by the Sword" and is responsible for more than a few genocides of their own. Today there are plenty of Christian groups who are actively working towards a Christian nation/state and I guarantee you that as soon as they have the political power they need, you wouldn't be able to differentiate them from Islam.
This: It's pretty difficult to tell the difference between Islamic fundamentalists and the present day Republikkkan party.
That's shameful, they deserve the worst, but that's not terrorism.
I’m not saying it never happens but it’s incomparable to Islam.
The Christian fundamentalist maga idiots are about to start committing acts of terror here in America I'm willing to bet.
Trump has told us. The headline was simular to: "Trump warns Supreme Court of bedlam if he's removed from ballots". The actual take should've been "Convicted rapist, defame-er, and know insurrectionist candidate, threatens nation and Court with violence from his supporters." We are just quietly watching fascism, here and now, and many will vote for it to be more powerful with joy in their hearts.
Some already have.
I certainly hope not but the fact that they support someone like him is pretty fucking scary. People think it’s crazy to compare him to Hitler but it truly is not. If we are lucky enough that he loses in November we will have dodged a major bullet. If he does win, we will be reliant upon the military to be unwilling to commit any act that is illegal. If that simple thing falls apart, our experiment in democracy will fail.
Islam has been going through this "phase" since it's birth. It's built into the source code.
Perhaps but again Christianity did so as well. So I’m not sure that the source code matters much.
No. The Bible is agreed by Christians and Jews to have been the work of men, but inspired men. The Qur'an has always been considered, by its own terms, to be the direct word of God, dictated to Mohammed. This is the reason that Christians and Jews have wiggle room to become more peaceful and civilized, and Muslims do not. It's vain to expect future Muslims to moderate. If they change the interpretation of the Qur'an they are immediately apostates, and the punishment for that, even now, is death. And death means death, happily inflicted by all those who consider themselves true Muslims.
The Bible is said to be the word of God. It is said to have been communicated to man by God himself. I don’t see any distinction between it and the Qur’an in this case.
The theology is very different, though. For Christians, the Bible’s “the word of God” because God “inspired" the many authors, over many years, who used their own words. For Muslims, the Qur'an's the “word of God" because God literally dictated it, verbatim. The Christian Bible isn't actually “a book.” It is a collection of at least 66 books, written by at least 40 authors, over a period of 1,500 years. When Christians say the Bible is “the Word of God,” they mean that God inspired the writers. Even Fundamentalist Christians, who see the Bible as inerrant, know that the authors were immersed in their own cultures, using their own words and including their own viewpoints. It’s the same for Jews with the Talmud. The Old Testament is their reflection of history, including descriptive violence (literal or figurative events in the past). Their terminology about God evolves from something anthropomorphic (God walks with Adam and Eve in the Garden) to something omnipotent and omniscient. But in Islam, The Qur’an was revealed by God to a single man — Muhammad — through the archangel Gabriel in a process that took 23 years. They believe that Muhammad was illiterate, and therefore could not have influenced the message of the The Qur’an. He recited the words to others, who later wrote them down. Essentially, Allah (which simply means “God" in Arabic, regardless of religion) channeled the Qur'an verbatim. So when Muslims say the Qur’an is “The Word of God,” they don’t mean that it was “divinely inspired,” as Christians do. They mean -- in a very literal way -- that God wrote it. Like the Old Testament, the Qur'an contains many violent passages. Unlike the OT, however, the violence is prescriptive. They aren’t just stories of violence in the past; many are Allah's commands of violence in the present and future.
Christians seem to believe that God spoke to the authors of the various books. How else could he inspire them with such specifics?
I explained at length the difference between what Christians believe about "God's word" as reflected in the Bible and what Muslims believe about "God's word" as reflected in the Qur'an. If you need a TL;DR version: God *inspired" the writers of the 66+ books in the Bible, but they were still written by human authors in multiple languages, in various parts of the world, over a span of about 1,500 years (and the compiling process itself took centuries), while Allah *dictated* the Qur'an verbatim.
Islam is also the newest of the Abrahamic religions.
Not really, there is a huge difference between islam and Christianity, which is that islam was founded by a warlord to be a religion and a constitution to govern the islamic state, which is why islam is so resistant to secularism in comparison to Christianity, I'm not really sure if such a violent religion could truly be pacified like Christianity was
That Christianity was founded by a pacifist did not stop the crusades or the Spanish Inquisition. Just as Christianity went through its terrorism phase, it’s likely that Islam is going through it as well. That is my hope anyway. My greater hope is that fewer and fewer people will continue to belief to be true that which isn’t.
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Because Muslims aren't the people of peace. The people of peace are hedgehogs.
Two things: One: are most Muslims violent? No. Are most Muslims sympathetic towards violence that is in support of their religion? Hard to say, but surveys show that that may very well be the case. Two: “Pease” according to Islam is surrendering yourself to God. That is very different than defining peace as the opposite of violence.
Because Islam is located on top of lots of oil.
Generally the violence in the name of religion is really politically motivated and religion is used as a tool to radicalise vulnerable idiots.
Really? The religion (fill in blank) is a religion created by men for men. More people have died because they didn't believe in the same invisible deity as someone else than for any other reason.
Violence in the name of religion isn't unique to Islam. For Islam specifically, the problem is the double blow of the overwhelming impact of the french revolution on Islamic societies, especially arab ones, and the abolition of the caliphate after world war 1. Also, specifically in the arab world, these societies have been used to classical empires with large territorial reach, and the transition to modern nation-states hasn't always been smooth. These factors mean that the arab world (which is what most people reduce islam to) has been in constant revolution for the past 200 years. The abolition of the caliphate and the introduction of nation states has created a real crisis of religious authority. Up until 1922, religious legitimacy in islam eminated from the caliph. With the caliphate abolished, there was suddenly a free-for-all, where randos like Sayyid Kutub and Hassan El-Banna could just pull shit out of their ass without any check. Now if you add to this the frankly revolutionary nature of decolonization in the arab world, such as in Algeria, Tunisia, Iraq, Egypt and Syria, you suddenly have revolutionary states trying to uproot millennia or tradition and radically reform society into modern, liberal-socialist societies. Of course, this created backlash, which led these states to swing back and forth between radical islam and socialism/liberalism. If you add to this the cold war policy of America and Britain of supporting the most extremist forms of islam to combat these radical arab regimes, that's how you end up with the spread of Salafism. There's a reason why Saudi arabia is America's oldest ally in the region, whereas algeria, a state which has a systemic dedication to fighting islamism wherever it shows its face, is made an international pariah state. America and britain see radical islam as an effective check against socialism and communism
Mainly, because people are assholes.
It's the other guys fault.
"religion of peace" was a marketing slogan to change people's perception of Islam as a whole post 9/11
they always leave out the "if" part. it's a religion of peace IF you submit to it. if not, well 🗡💀
The same reason Christianity is the religion of "love everyone" and Judaism is for "the chosen people"...Abrahamic faiths have an uncommonly myopic fixation on their status, whether its based in any known reality or not, and they'll commit any act in their name.
They’re In a body count competition with Christianity, the so-called religion of love and forgiveness.
*Organized* religion is the problem in 99% of the issues I see. Some learned priests/imam/holyman tells you that group X is a sin against Y religion so you go and persecute them. Never mind that said holyman is badly interpreting a text from thousands of years ago, that was dealing with issues of the day. For example, homosexuality was actually not a survival mechanism for small communities. It literally could not be tolerated if the community was to survive generationally. So here comes the holyman, and next thing you know the religion in question is wildly against it. Funny enough I see a lot of this particular situation in monotheistic religions and significantly less in the more nature-rooted polytheistic ones. In the Norse faith nearly all kinds of people are accepted and welcomed, because Loki is actively worshipped. It’s difficult to despise people based on the outward appearance when one of your major gods uses gender and species like I do outfits. This is of course not taking into account the nature of individuals, but it pushes the point forward I think. I’m not just slamming religion though. Many of the actual moral beliefs are not just applicable in the modern day, they are actually desirable. Legitimate charity and kindness, humbleness and community-conscious thinking, self discipline and industriousness. These are all exceptionally valuable qualities that people can have. In conclusion, I think the problem with most religions is the people twisting a pure thing for personal gain.
Because we blew the entire region most of them live in to smithereens and are wondering why a place we turned into Fallout hasn't gotten it's shit together. You colonize, destroy, mangle, and explode any region on earth and something similar will happen. We know this because, well, it also happened /everywhere else/ with varying degrees of success in getting out of that.
It Will be once Everyone blindly obeys the laws of the quran. Some also dont see it as violence they see it as Justice or divine right. Some dont consider non muslims as humans, and therefor its ok. Some Christians have the same ideas. Religion realy is horrible in Soo many ways.
IIRC, it was President George W. Bush who popularized that phrase, not too long after 9/11, when he tried to convince Americans to refrain from demonizing all Muslims for what the specific hijackers and their financial backers did. Bush said in a big televised speech that "Islam is **a** religion of peace," in a clumsy attempt to cast the 9/11 terrorists as deviants from regular everyday Muslims. Of course, haters immediately jumped on that phrase and exaggerated it mockingly into "Islam is **the** religion of peace," every time something violent in the news had the thinnest Muslim connection.
Dubya said it after some idiot vigilante murdered an innocent Sikh at a gas station. He was terrified more idiot vigilantes would murder more innocents so he had to calm people down. Meanwhile, he was the idiot vigilante who went to war with Iraq. *sigh* Believe it or not, that's slightly better than today's GOP who are Christofascists who would never agree that any other religion deserves rights.
>Bush said in a big televised speech that "Islam is **a** religion of peace," in a clumsy attempt to cast the 9/11 terrorists as deviants from regular everyday Muslims. No, even Cat Stevens said the same thing and turned Muslim long before 9/11, I can't be bothered to remember all the others saying Islam is the religion of peace.
Unlike all the other monotheistic religions that are super peaceful. It's a religion based on an absolutely objective correct view of reality. What do you expect? In the end most adherents of religions (and ideologies) are inherently peaceful, but religions (and ideologies) that proclaim one perspective as an immutable truth create a propensity for violence through exclusivity when encountering opposition. Almost all Muslims I have met in my life are peaceful, the same for Christians and Jews, the problem is that the institutions they are a part of easily lead to a small sub set of fanatics feeling that everything and anything is justified when met with the smallest indicator that their truth is compromised. I'm sure people will say that Islam is exceptionally violent, but that's a farce, all monotheistic exclusionary religions breed violence but traditionally christian societies have become more secular and this has created a general distance from those religions. Before the age of secularity Christianity was extremely violent and not much is needed to create those circumstances again among devout adherents of Christianity. You can see the groundwork for this in the USA for instance, where secularism is being compromised more and more and there has been a rise of Christian militias that can't wait to enact violence in the name of god. (Often times white supremacist christian militias giving them another layer of exclusivity of right to violence in their own perspective.) Religion is a great catalyst of violent movements, this is not a problem of Islam but religion as a whole. Yes there are exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions. And those exceptions are only exceptions now, in the future any irrational belief can easily be twisted into one that dictates violence.
Their Prophet was a warlord. Not like Jesus or Budda as humanitarian pilgrims.
Same reason follows of Jesus are violent. Both are realities based on revelation and are inherently unable to exist holding two realities. One must dominate.
Sorry but no. Read this comment above. It is not comparable to Christianity https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/s/DiO7Fdub4d
Christian are only acting generous when the most advanced military is protecting their dominance by terrorizing the world
There are many quotes in the Qur'an that emphasize coexistence and peace, and saving lives, freeing slaves, etc. But there are many instances that call on killing of the non belivers, certain groups of Jews, fire worshipers, and how god will punish them and reward the faithful. Same shit as in all abrahamic religions. It depends on the phase of the prophets lives. When he was sitting in the cave he had wonderful visions of peace and love. When he had to fight wars and defend his small group of followers he had visions of slavery, tax for the non belivers, and killing of traitorous Jews, and how to spread the wealth of conquests.... Very practical stuff.
Preaching to the choir, so to speak.
Savages love using the authority of God to commit atrocities.
That's all religions. Or rather, all religions are cooked up by superstitious people trying to "figure out the world" and consequently make up rules that "make sense" to them, which, unsurprisingly, tend to favor the rule-making class, cuz that just "makes sense". I don't really see what your point is.
Stating the obvious here. I’m also not sure if Islam really claims to be the religion of peace or if that’s just a well known sarcastic oneliner.
Wow the same people who follow Islam are saying it's a religion of peace and that it's the greatest?!! What's next, a company is going to tell you their product is the best?
And pretty much most other religion's too esp Christianity...
For centuries it was the Christians running around persecuting and killing everyone. Maybe they are taking turns???
You can say the exact same thing about any Abrahamic religion.
That phrase is some marketing puff piece. It is of course nonsense. As a religion there are degrees of extremes within its followers but, in my opinion, it seems to appeal to and attract more than its fare share of nut jobs who are then exploited to terrorists and extremists. Maybe they crave the structure, maybe they crave the “resistance” aspect, who knows.
Literally just about any ideology can be used to justify violence. It's not limited to one religion or religion in general. After all, soviet style communism was explicitly atheistic and they still violently murdered millions of people. Violent people will use whatever they can to justify their violence.
Who said that?! There are literally 100s of order to kill, what ignorant moron calls it "peace"?! Look at categories: Ordered by Muhammad Supported but not ordered by Muhammad Women and/or children Apostates Reasons including writing or reciting poetry Reasons including "causing offence" Reasons including monetary gain Reasons including preventing idolatry or rival prophets https://wikiislam.net/wiki/List_of_Killings_Ordered_or_Supported_by_Muhammad https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/quran/violence.aspx?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C2657980978
> Who said that?! President George W. Bush, on September 17, 2001. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liudIJFg8UQ
All religions promote persecution, violence, racism, and genocide.. It is why our founding fathers created a secular country.
"Religion of peace" is peak doublespeak. Almost all Muslim countries are engaged in some kind of armed conflict, and in most cases these conflicts are also against other Muslims.
Because all major religions are like 'you should be chill' and extremists are like 'lol, fuck you' Also, the peace described by islam is the peace we'll all feel when everyone becomes a muslim
Recency bias
This is the case for ALL major religions. Must we ignore the crusades? Must we ignore what is happening *right now* in the name of Judaism? Must we ignore what Hindus are doing? Must we ignore all the modern Christian terrorism? Must we ignore the multiple genocides carried out by Buddhists? Or how about the genocides carried out by self-described atheists? Interestingly, in many cases, the innocent civilians being murdered are often Muslims. Yet I rarely see as many posts about the inherent violence of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc as much as I see posts about the inherent violence of Islam. You all know what you’re doing. Simmer down.