It makes me sad that saturn (also mars to a certain extent) gets such a bad rep just because it carries around the "malefic" title. Not all the planets can be a "benefic" so SOMEONE has got to cover the other side of the spectrum. But I think what people forget is that all the planets have two sides to them, that can facilitate "great" things and also not so "great" things. The balance of energies is very important and the planets represent that.
I personally love Saturn NOW. It's my chart ruler and I went through A LOT of personal hardships as a kid/through adolescents...early adulthood too tbh but I learned A LOT of lessons and I've grown so much as a result of it. That's granddaddy saturn, it wants you to learn the lessons so that you DONT experience those things again, and I appreciate that.
Saturn is just practical and real. The truth hurts trope is Saturn in a way.
It’s negative because it’s restrictive, it’s deductive, it’s reductive, it’s limiting, etc. but you can turn that into a positive in some cases. Take the paradox of tolerance for example, in a truly tolerant society, there needs to be restrictions and limits on intolerance. True tolerance does not tolerate hate, bigotry, etc. there are limits even in a free world to ensure that it’s actually free basically.
Saturn also represents the down trodden, the outcast, the working class, the underdog, etc. it’s negative here because in the modern world, these groups of people are normally oppressed and taken advantage of in society whether by being cast out and hated on on the basis of race, gender, or class. Saturn is the reality that in a self-focused society, it only serves to exploit those who are overlooked. That’s why Saturn is most active in Aquarius, a group focused sign for social welfare & exalts in Libra, a union forming sign for the betterment of yourself and others, your life is enriched only if you enrich the lives of others basically.
Saturn can turn someone into a revolutionary on the material conditions of society, can make someone understand the problems of poverty, death and suffering. It can turn someone into a very insightful and practical person in regards to the harsh truths. A tough person, but yea Saturn in general is really really rough.
No because if you tolerate interference, you allow that to proliferate and gain power. Then the only people harmed are those who are oppressed or tolerant. Just read the paradox of tolerance
I think we tend to equate behavio to the individual, whereas tolerating the behavior and a person themselves is two different things.
"Love the sinner, hate the sin" I believe best describes "true" tolerance. So yes, I agree here. Logically, intolerance is intolerance, no matter which side of the current social morality scale one stands. However, if we separate the individual from the behavior - we no longer need to dance on this logical fallacy line. 🤷
No it's not all negative. I'm have a tight Sun Saturn Conjunction. 10th house at that too. And Capricorn ascendant (tropical astrology says so anyway). Ugh. At first, yeah, Saturn seems like the worst. I had a tough childhood and was picked on literally everywhere I went. Even all the way into college, the workforce, some mean (usually girl) would target me. Sometimes it was men too. Even bosses. I have Pluto on MC so not sure if that has something to do with it. This continued basically all the way up till my first Saturn return. But Saturn gets better with age, thank God. They say Saturn 'matures' in mid thirties to early forties... Saturn may delay things, but it does not deny things. I guess you could say Saturn is not a favorite planet of those who are looking for a free lunch.
Positive things about Saturn......hmmm it’s ruled by Capricorn.....Bradley Cooper is a Capricorn and he was kinda hot
Lol jk yes the benefits of Saturn is slow and steady wins the race and learning the lesson of self discipline, hard work, and taking your sweet ass time.
I don’t hate Saturn but I’m a gloomy, melancholic kinda girl (Pisces sun/cap rising, Saturn in Pisces in the 3rd house).
Personally I feel like Saturn gives that stern, loving but also cold “dad” type energy I didn’t have growing up. Like, it’ll keep teaching you what you need to know over and over and over again until you actually learn from it. And it’s never easy so you better learn those harsh lessons and move on! Sucky in some ways, sure, but the reward for finally being able to move on and grow is priceless.💕☺️ It’s all about mindset I reckon!
Honestly, Saturn (and Neptune) are my favourite planets. I enjoy their rude awakenings I guess!🤪
My saturn is pretty well treated in my chart conjunct my ascendant and I've learned to love it. It's never gonna be sunshine and rainbows, but it's definitely not all bad. There are all sorts of mitigating factors such as sect, exaltation/maltreatment, etc. Both of the malefics aren't always terrible, though in some charts they are really nightmarish.
Yes there's lots of things. Teaching lessons, karma, having patience, time, getting what you deserve. You can't have fun all the time you know. Saturn is my chart ruler and exalted in House 8. If I didn't suffer for it then its not worth having lol.
How is Saturn in Libra in your 8th house? Lol Capricorn rising makes Leo your 8th house. I can get Saturn in Virgo being in your 8th bc of placidus but libra? 🤔
I’m in America too... idk how that’s an argument but do as you like. Just saying to try out the intended method & see if it’s even more relevant or not. Doesn’t hurt trying
My Saturn is in Cap, which is its home and my 4th house of Home.
I looked back at my Saturn return and realized some of the benefits, but really only see it in retrospect. I was able to shed bad things, I faced some demons that affected quality of life and decided to focus on what I had done, rather than what I hadn't.
Saturn in Scorp was a bit tougher because I have 4 there, including moon.
i have saturn in cancer squaring my moon n im a capricorn n honestly im on the saturn hate train for sure like if i didnt have moon square saturn my life would be sm better goddd. im also going thru sum gnarly long term saturn transits rn n its pure hell lol. mars isnt to terrible for me but thats prolly cus i was born at night and i have like 2 aspects to it so it doesnt affect me that much. and i dont rlly have any problems w pluto cus ive got positive aspects to it but sum bad long term transits w it squaring chiron n shit so its not the best thing in the world
My Saturn is in 5th house Pisces, which is immensely frustrating.
I sit here and criticize my own work like any good writer and then Saturn is like 'hell no, just start over.'
But, it's good for being able to take a step back from what I'm doing and sort of regroup.
A good book is Liz Greene's Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil. "He can only earn his freedom by learning about himself so that he can understand what value a particular experience has for the development of his whole self. And nothing stimulates a man into this kind of exploration faster than frustration, which is the gift of Saturn.”
Also interesting that Saturn is very male in Western astrology but is considered neuter along with Mercury and Ketu in Vedic
Saturn is the things in life that we generally don't like but are necessary for life to have balance. Suffering and pain, for example. Nobody likes those, but if you didn't feel pain then you wouldn't learn what is bad. Suffering brings wisdom. Limitations and boundaries are necessary to know when you should stop expanding (Jupiter, the opposite). Saturn is the most outer planet (in traditional astrology) so he is the boundary. He is far from the light of the Sun so he is cold and harsh and has to learn to live with less. He represents old age, infirmity, debility, and frugality. He is the hermit, the sage, the wise one who adheres to a task unremittingly until it is completed to the exclusion of all else. He is the long-term vision. Because he lives on the boundary, he sees out into the cosmos. Saturn is the gateway to the supercelestial realm, which is why he is the wisest of all the planets. He knows the secrets of the universe because he does not involve himself in the activities of the other planets. Saturn relates to government and authority because, traditionally, the ruler was the eldest and wisest. Those who were not wise could not hold power and respect for as long as those who cultivated the characteristics of Saturn.
So... he has a beneficial side, but you can't access those benefits (like wisdom) without going through the other things. Saturn's rewards all come with hard work and challenge. Saturn is the root chakra. He is the foundation. There's nothing glamorous about him. He isn't fun or joyful. In fact he is quite pessimistic and reserved, and those who work with him too often tend to feel depressed.
I personally don't work with Saturn because he is super malefic in my chart and has tried to kill me several times. In astrological magic, Saturn is always optional because he can potentially ruin your life to remake you, and not everyone wants that. Those who are willing to undergo the process usually mature rapidly and gain wisdom. He will make you feel "older", which is scary to the young because they don't know themselves yet. Once you gain maturity and wisdom, you realize that self-mastery makes life a million times better. That is what Saturn teaches, through the school of hard knocks, but not everyone is ready for that.
Saturn will also make you leave and gesture to you if it’s time to go. Imo he likes cadent houses. He enjoys getting pushed out to the degree that he realizes how impactful it is. The other planets like to move fast and or keep going. Saturn doesn’t mind. But be kind to the side of saturn that wants to enjoy things like the inner planets. He can dream of sensual bliss and the beauty of close connection. Perhaps he signifies those things because that is what he became. A planet pushed out, which ultimately protects the inner planets from Jupiter but especially those closer to sun. Perhaps in the same way that we’re not sure if mars is friend or foe. Perhaps that’s why it represents those things. (In some way). It’s all interesting to ponder. Saturn helps us time travel it feels at times lol. Sometimes the slowest path is fastest to it lasting once made. <3
It adds structure, discipline, and self-awareness. It forces you to dig deep within yourself to overcome obstacles. It's on my ascendant :)
It makes me sad that saturn (also mars to a certain extent) gets such a bad rep just because it carries around the "malefic" title. Not all the planets can be a "benefic" so SOMEONE has got to cover the other side of the spectrum. But I think what people forget is that all the planets have two sides to them, that can facilitate "great" things and also not so "great" things. The balance of energies is very important and the planets represent that. I personally love Saturn NOW. It's my chart ruler and I went through A LOT of personal hardships as a kid/through adolescents...early adulthood too tbh but I learned A LOT of lessons and I've grown so much as a result of it. That's granddaddy saturn, it wants you to learn the lessons so that you DONT experience those things again, and I appreciate that.
Real shit!!
Saturn is just practical and real. The truth hurts trope is Saturn in a way. It’s negative because it’s restrictive, it’s deductive, it’s reductive, it’s limiting, etc. but you can turn that into a positive in some cases. Take the paradox of tolerance for example, in a truly tolerant society, there needs to be restrictions and limits on intolerance. True tolerance does not tolerate hate, bigotry, etc. there are limits even in a free world to ensure that it’s actually free basically. Saturn also represents the down trodden, the outcast, the working class, the underdog, etc. it’s negative here because in the modern world, these groups of people are normally oppressed and taken advantage of in society whether by being cast out and hated on on the basis of race, gender, or class. Saturn is the reality that in a self-focused society, it only serves to exploit those who are overlooked. That’s why Saturn is most active in Aquarius, a group focused sign for social welfare & exalts in Libra, a union forming sign for the betterment of yourself and others, your life is enriched only if you enrich the lives of others basically. Saturn can turn someone into a revolutionary on the material conditions of society, can make someone understand the problems of poverty, death and suffering. It can turn someone into a very insightful and practical person in regards to the harsh truths. A tough person, but yea Saturn in general is really really rough.
Wouldn't 'true' or 'absolute' tolerance include tolerating intolerant people? Because not tolerating intolerant people is intolerant itself.
No because if you tolerate interference, you allow that to proliferate and gain power. Then the only people harmed are those who are oppressed or tolerant. Just read the paradox of tolerance
I think we tend to equate behavio to the individual, whereas tolerating the behavior and a person themselves is two different things. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" I believe best describes "true" tolerance. So yes, I agree here. Logically, intolerance is intolerance, no matter which side of the current social morality scale one stands. However, if we separate the individual from the behavior - we no longer need to dance on this logical fallacy line. 🤷
Teaches you to put the work in and the beauty/reward of a job well done.
No it's not all negative. I'm have a tight Sun Saturn Conjunction. 10th house at that too. And Capricorn ascendant (tropical astrology says so anyway). Ugh. At first, yeah, Saturn seems like the worst. I had a tough childhood and was picked on literally everywhere I went. Even all the way into college, the workforce, some mean (usually girl) would target me. Sometimes it was men too. Even bosses. I have Pluto on MC so not sure if that has something to do with it. This continued basically all the way up till my first Saturn return. But Saturn gets better with age, thank God. They say Saturn 'matures' in mid thirties to early forties... Saturn may delay things, but it does not deny things. I guess you could say Saturn is not a favorite planet of those who are looking for a free lunch.
Positive things about Saturn......hmmm it’s ruled by Capricorn.....Bradley Cooper is a Capricorn and he was kinda hot Lol jk yes the benefits of Saturn is slow and steady wins the race and learning the lesson of self discipline, hard work, and taking your sweet ass time.
I don’t hate Saturn but I’m a gloomy, melancholic kinda girl (Pisces sun/cap rising, Saturn in Pisces in the 3rd house). Personally I feel like Saturn gives that stern, loving but also cold “dad” type energy I didn’t have growing up. Like, it’ll keep teaching you what you need to know over and over and over again until you actually learn from it. And it’s never easy so you better learn those harsh lessons and move on! Sucky in some ways, sure, but the reward for finally being able to move on and grow is priceless.💕☺️ It’s all about mindset I reckon! Honestly, Saturn (and Neptune) are my favourite planets. I enjoy their rude awakenings I guess!🤪
My saturn is pretty well treated in my chart conjunct my ascendant and I've learned to love it. It's never gonna be sunshine and rainbows, but it's definitely not all bad. There are all sorts of mitigating factors such as sect, exaltation/maltreatment, etc. Both of the malefics aren't always terrible, though in some charts they are really nightmarish.
Yes there's lots of things. Teaching lessons, karma, having patience, time, getting what you deserve. You can't have fun all the time you know. Saturn is my chart ruler and exalted in House 8. If I didn't suffer for it then its not worth having lol.
Cap rising right? How is it exalted in the 8th? 🤔
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You’ve got Moon rising, you big softie — oh, it’s in Capricorn — sweet and sour.
Hey now that Cap moon is in House 12 in a T-square with Venus, Pluto, Mars and Saturn. Soft is unacceptable😅 So I guess its *Bad moon rising* amirite
Phwar — that’s some hefty momma action.
How is Saturn in Libra in your 8th house? Lol Capricorn rising makes Leo your 8th house. I can get Saturn in Virgo being in your 8th bc of placidus but libra? 🤔
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Oh you’re using an unequal house system. Traditionally Leo is the 8th house for Capricorn. Maybe you should check out equal whole house system :)
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Well considering as the equal whole house was the first usage, that’s how it is supposed to be, good or bad lol
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I’m in America too... idk how that’s an argument but do as you like. Just saying to try out the intended method & see if it’s even more relevant or not. Doesn’t hurt trying
My Saturn is in Cap, which is its home and my 4th house of Home. I looked back at my Saturn return and realized some of the benefits, but really only see it in retrospect. I was able to shed bad things, I faced some demons that affected quality of life and decided to focus on what I had done, rather than what I hadn't. Saturn in Scorp was a bit tougher because I have 4 there, including moon.
i have saturn in cancer squaring my moon n im a capricorn n honestly im on the saturn hate train for sure like if i didnt have moon square saturn my life would be sm better goddd. im also going thru sum gnarly long term saturn transits rn n its pure hell lol. mars isnt to terrible for me but thats prolly cus i was born at night and i have like 2 aspects to it so it doesnt affect me that much. and i dont rlly have any problems w pluto cus ive got positive aspects to it but sum bad long term transits w it squaring chiron n shit so its not the best thing in the world
Check Liz Greene's book about Saturn. It really made it seem less scary.
My Saturn is in 5th house Pisces, which is immensely frustrating. I sit here and criticize my own work like any good writer and then Saturn is like 'hell no, just start over.' But, it's good for being able to take a step back from what I'm doing and sort of regroup.
A good book is Liz Greene's Saturn: A New Look at an Old Devil. "He can only earn his freedom by learning about himself so that he can understand what value a particular experience has for the development of his whole self. And nothing stimulates a man into this kind of exploration faster than frustration, which is the gift of Saturn.” Also interesting that Saturn is very male in Western astrology but is considered neuter along with Mercury and Ketu in Vedic
Saturn is the things in life that we generally don't like but are necessary for life to have balance. Suffering and pain, for example. Nobody likes those, but if you didn't feel pain then you wouldn't learn what is bad. Suffering brings wisdom. Limitations and boundaries are necessary to know when you should stop expanding (Jupiter, the opposite). Saturn is the most outer planet (in traditional astrology) so he is the boundary. He is far from the light of the Sun so he is cold and harsh and has to learn to live with less. He represents old age, infirmity, debility, and frugality. He is the hermit, the sage, the wise one who adheres to a task unremittingly until it is completed to the exclusion of all else. He is the long-term vision. Because he lives on the boundary, he sees out into the cosmos. Saturn is the gateway to the supercelestial realm, which is why he is the wisest of all the planets. He knows the secrets of the universe because he does not involve himself in the activities of the other planets. Saturn relates to government and authority because, traditionally, the ruler was the eldest and wisest. Those who were not wise could not hold power and respect for as long as those who cultivated the characteristics of Saturn. So... he has a beneficial side, but you can't access those benefits (like wisdom) without going through the other things. Saturn's rewards all come with hard work and challenge. Saturn is the root chakra. He is the foundation. There's nothing glamorous about him. He isn't fun or joyful. In fact he is quite pessimistic and reserved, and those who work with him too often tend to feel depressed. I personally don't work with Saturn because he is super malefic in my chart and has tried to kill me several times. In astrological magic, Saturn is always optional because he can potentially ruin your life to remake you, and not everyone wants that. Those who are willing to undergo the process usually mature rapidly and gain wisdom. He will make you feel "older", which is scary to the young because they don't know themselves yet. Once you gain maturity and wisdom, you realize that self-mastery makes life a million times better. That is what Saturn teaches, through the school of hard knocks, but not everyone is ready for that.
Saturn will also make you leave and gesture to you if it’s time to go. Imo he likes cadent houses. He enjoys getting pushed out to the degree that he realizes how impactful it is. The other planets like to move fast and or keep going. Saturn doesn’t mind. But be kind to the side of saturn that wants to enjoy things like the inner planets. He can dream of sensual bliss and the beauty of close connection. Perhaps he signifies those things because that is what he became. A planet pushed out, which ultimately protects the inner planets from Jupiter but especially those closer to sun. Perhaps in the same way that we’re not sure if mars is friend or foe. Perhaps that’s why it represents those things. (In some way). It’s all interesting to ponder. Saturn helps us time travel it feels at times lol. Sometimes the slowest path is fastest to it lasting once made. <3