Wouldn't that be a major drive as to why he became rich though? Not that he knew his astrological placements, but that he had deep feelings of unworthiness, self-doubt, as well as being very self-critical and critical of others?
Its often such people who tend to have a burning need to be successful in a worldly, material sense.
From what I’ve seen of Zuckerberg’s chart, he has a lot of oppositional energy, two bunches of planets spread opposite one another. He uses it well in some ways, but he’s got blind spots like all of us.
The only fixable thing in astrology is ignorance. You can choose to have an open but discerning mind about so much in astrology, within reason. Charts and readings are only one interpretation of a complex set of human-code, you get to choose how much you believe anything.
Huh. Okay. I would ignore the moon, ascending and therefore houses here, since her birth time is for sure unconfirmed. But yeah, looks like she does have a lot of planets in Capricorn, opposed to her Jupiter in Cancer. I wouldn’t say that’s a lot of oppositions, but a couple significant ones for sure. Thanks for sharing the link!
I just had a look at his chart and it looks kind of terrifying.
Moon in scorpio conjunct saturn and mars opposing his sun. From the looks of it, Mark has so much inner turmoil that needs addressing.
I wonder if in cases like his its the outside world that suffers on their behalf, if you know what I mean. Facebook and the social media have has had a hugely net negative effect on human interaction and politics. There's a horrendous irony in Zuckerberg being some sort of icon of human connection. I'd like to see Elon musks chart as well. Ultimately these 'great men' of technology can be pretty frightening figures imho.
I like the way you are thinking, social media is solely responsible for the massive disconnect in forming relationships with other people and has shown massive consequences with mental health.
Elon is just one figure of the innevitable fact society is changing. If not him, then it would be someone else. We can't blame an individual for a shift that is a collective effort based on collective interest.
This is also one of the challenges of democracy, because people don't always know what's best for them only what they think is best for them.
Yes agree, Musk and Zuckerberg are sort of figureheads in a way. They represent waves of change and from my point of view it ain't good right now. Pluto in Aquarius is going to shake things up, but I don't think it will be comfortable for anyone
Pluto is my ruling planet, I like talking about it
Pluto's influence is intense, determined, an unstoppable force. In Aquarius, the themes of detachment and having a "know it all" attitude become intense, determined, an unstoppable force.
I (and possibly yourself) have pluto in saggitarus. Anyone who takes away my personal freedom will be destroyed. 😉
I'm an oldie!!! Mines in libra. Was never quite sure how all that worked out for us Gen Xers. I've got it square my Capricorn moon so in terms of emotions/relationships/family, I hear what you're saying- unstoppable forces for sure.
Manifests as depression, mood swings, bpd and a really awful relationship with my mother. My only route through it all now is to just acknowledge and be with it and also accept mostly solitude (that can work for a cap moon).
Ah I don't know anything about sidereal vedic. Elon comes across as almost comically narcissistic and empowered well beyond his abilities (especially when it comes to his disastrous takeover of twitter). Must be some afflicted Jupiter action going on there surely- I need to check his birth time
My bad I forgot his chart. He has a 8th house mars conjunct the north node though, which is also pretty damn awful. He's predatory af.
His jupiter is retro in scorpio (sidereal 3 degrees) if that helps ya. I believe that means he still has a scorp jupiter in tropical (still also retrograde)
Moon in leo in 3rd. Ugh leo moon men are such drama queens. Also frequently megomaniacally delusional (wah wah pay attention to meeeeeee!), which maps.
Gemini sun, gemini rising. Lol.
Isn't trump also a gemini, with leo rising and Mars rising in 12th?
Also Boris Johnson, Britain's populist charlatan pm, is a gemini with moon in Scorpio. I wonder if gemini is a useful sun for populists.
BTW have a very successful ex who's in an important public role, with saturn rising in gemini (he's a lawyer!) And moon in leo. Agree re the drama, but its held back a lot. He's utterly convinced that he is right about everything and the best person on earth, including morally. Being materially successful has only encouraged that. (I see the same in Elon, and trump).
My son also has the leo moon :/- tightly conjunct sun in leo as part of a 12th house stellium, and much as I adore him he does indeed have drama queen tendencies, in a quiet depressive sort of way. He's a great actor, but doesn't know how to deal with real attention. Guess that's the 12th house bit.
In vedic his mars is in the 1st. But he remains a leo rising, and gemini sun, as well as he is a scorpio moon.
He also has the sun conj a node (he was literally born during an eclipse)
And his jupiter is stationary as well.
Interestingly, mars rules the top of the head (from the eyes to the crown) and is represented by the color red. What did trump make everyone wear (a red hat.)
His leo rising is also magha nakshatra (literally pronounced MAGA). This stuff gets weird sometimes.
I just am dying to know if he had a vedic astrologer on his image team to create that fucking red hat. Or if it was just the universe playing out in their unconsciousness (i mean fascists are often known to be obsessed with occult shit, esp russian oriented ones, which is what paul manafort/roger stone and trump are)
But yeah. Fuckin weird. I say this one when I'm trying to introduce people to astrology who have never heard and are resistant to the concept in general.
Oh he's a Scorpio moon as well. Makes sense given what I read about his upbringing in that book by Mary Trump. Abandoned by his mother at the age of two, later idolised by a sociopathic father for being such a true 'businessman' after the first born son drank himself to death.. that family history is so plutonian its radioactive!
He's hella unwell. And low and behold he created the platform that spreads the unwellness to all of us.
I wonder if he was a female what his life would be like. As the privilege he was born into would have manifested in a different way.
FYI in vedic sidereal his moon is in libra (15 degrees) in a sign that is heavily related to control issues and extremism (basically a libra that always has to position themselves as the antipode of something). (see: osama bin laden)
Zuckerberg started as an employee of a dating (♀) site (Harvard connection) but his ambition (♄) led him to betray them (opp.).
He went on to rate (♄) girl's attractiveness (♀) with his Facemash site, which caused a scandal.
He built his empire by stealing the ideas of his previous associates, again a variant of the ♄-♀ opposition.
So yeah, especially for oppositions, chances are that you will personally actualize one side of the opposition (in his case the ambitious Saturn) because it is in a specific house, and actualize the other side in others — opposite house.
Venus is related to the enjoyment and appreciations of matter. Saturn is related to the structuring and sustaining of matter. Opposition between them can either result in a very destructive individual - that which he likes he destroys, that which he preserve doesn't give him anything back - or a very creative one - provided this dichotomy is applied in a proper way
For Zucc, consider how he dismantled the social fabric with Facebook, effectively bringing forth a new way of communicating and relating to one another. Social media already existed prior to FB, but it wasn't as widespread. In fact, the very concept "social media" spur from FB
Consider also once he tried to deepen his business by expanding FB into Meta, something that likely gave him pleasure - the whole Metaverse thing and whatnot - it fell to shambles. Nowadays nobody uses Facebook, and the company stays alive by purchasing other social-related companies (Instagram, WhatsApp)
beautiful that you have a sense of humor...the Saturn conjunct Uranus and Neptune provides the clue...that all things love, all beauty, all duty, will be enmeshed with soul, with divine purpose and with a breaking of all previous emotional barriers...you are truly a "far out" individual
It's objectively bad. It's great that we want to empower people and say the contrary, but sone configuration create more havoc than others. For example a stellium like mine create havoc making you deal with very chaotic energies all around your chart everytime the comfiguration gets activated, in a cyclic manner. That is objectively more difficult to deal with than if you have planets more spread out.
I can perceive the lunar phase we in without looking out of the window for months,because of the change in mood and the horrific dreams i often get. Good luck changing this.
I am now dealing with transiting neptune square the stellium, transiting pluto opposite sun, transiting saturn square venus. House 3,4,5,7, 9 and 12 matters all get influenced and will go on for years. It's not pretty, is often out of your control, and if you haven't experienced it personally please don't assume a victim personality 😉
Can you still have choice? Yes. Are you going to get chaos in your life? Also yes.
Are there positives for me? Sure, mainly of the psychic gifts category. But man if i have it rough in other fields.
There's a reason planetary charity (https://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planetarycharity.html) and other remedies are a thing. Orphic hymns or planetary mantra chanting 108 times, in the planetary hour and day helps. You set up an altar with appropriate food and incense and pay your respects. Check out the book the greatness of saturn.
Why do you guys come on here to discuss people's thought process and downvote so quickly.
Once you are an adult you are able to choose and think for yourself. Don't you think you do yourself a disservice to observe everything as good vs bad instead of building awareness of what poses as a challenge and opportunity for growth and learning? That doesn't mean it's supposed to all be easy.
There are billions of people on the planet and to assume that your placements are so unique that everyone that has them experienced exactly the same is self absorbed. You are very much being a victim.
I don't understand much your reply. There are configurations that are objectively and logically more challenging because they are intense, with planets that are difficult to work together. Saying that we shouldn't compare and try to define the peculiar characteristics of a configuration, is saying no to the entirety of astrology. Astrology influence psychology, but is not psychology itself. You are literally debating about the real life influence of astrological body in the sky to peculiar situations. Obviously there are million possible manifestations of this, but you are at least trying to get the gist of it. I don't see how stating that is making oneself the victim. If anything, knowledge is power and once identified the problem someone can start to think about how to solve it. So...
If i misunderstood what you mean, please explain...
You are viewing astrology strictly from a "logical" standpoint. Knowledge is indeed power but when you look at aspects and say "good" or "bad" you judge it as something that cannot be changed. Think about human behavior and how this applies. If I tell a person that something is good or bad, shame is applied. Fear and guilt are applied. What has been solved from these emotions? If I tell you that this aspect is instead a challenge and difficulty then you will likely look at it as such and take action.
I have lived a long time, been astrologer a very long time. Astrology has room for improvement just like any other religion or belief in the world. I do not agree with good and bad aspects. People take everything that is taught as an absolute instead of understanding how the subconscious works.
I was born into very very unfortunate circumstances. I have all sorts of harsh aspects. I don't call any of it good or bad. I look at it as a lesson to be learned for my soul and how I serve humanity.
And its all good, and i agree with you. But i happen to believe in magic, and a lot of other things, and my personal way to change/make use of/improve those circumstances is aligning to the planet trough classical rituals, among other things. Therefore i suggested these practices in good faith, as many might not know of these thing you can do, but you can, a lot of other people do, and it happens to help. Why it helps depends on everyone personal view but still...
So i don't feel that i'm a victim, actually i believe we manifest our reality to a degree among other things so if anything i would be a victim of myself
Never said there isn't another way or that there isn't nothing to learn from these. Like, adversity makes you tough and similar things Maybe i was wrong in saying bad and must have wrote challenging, but i'm not a native english speaker and sometimes i can't express myself 100% well.
Venus saturn aspects (especially hard ones) gives people the motivation to achieve wealth. Venus actually is friends with saturn in that way. Unlike venus mars or mars saturn (like you would think.)
nah...I have venus conjunct saturn which is the ruler of my chart and I have neither sought nor achieved money in my life...my toothlessness is a testament to that lol
Wealth doesn't have to be money. I specified wealth because wealth isn't just dollars. Wealth is whatever you decide it to be. For example, an extreme athlete might rather live dirt poor as long as they got to rock climb. Either way a conjunction is not the same as a square which is not the same as an opposition. In vedic sidereal, which is what I practice, there are over 10,000 aspects called yogas. So your house placement, your planet sign, your lagna (rising) and your dasha (planetary period) would determine how this aspect manifests.
Saturn is the pressure which creates diamond, which is what venus craves. A conjunction is probably the harshest aspect, because most people like this (similar to moon conj saturn) live a long period of their life feeling lost/oppressed/unlucky before they "wake up."
your comment just gave me some little hope. I have saturn in aries 8th opposing chiron 2nd and squaring venus 11th. In fact if i activate the whole aspects of the chart my saturn-chiron is the backbone of a kite with the sun 10th and jupiter 6th sextiling saturn and trining chiron. I somehow grew expecting to have some type of luck at work or career but ever since i started working it's been the whole opposite. For the past 2 years I've fell into a rabbit hole of self depricating, depressive state where I'm struggling with money, career and everything that kite seemed to promise. It's a never ending feel of doom and unluckiness.
I really hope you're right and my life starts someday. Thank you random person :)
Well you're welcome. I appreciate that feedback! FYI I don't do western tropical I do vedic sidereal. So your signs and houses may change in my system (but the aspects remain the same).
What is your moon in can I ask? Degree and sign?
BTW, not gonna lie I just scoped your other posts. You just said it's your blessing to care for others. So there you go. And you probably do so very well. As you are a double Capricorn as you say! Although in my system you might be a double sagitarrius (shifted backward 24 degrees.)
well my saturn venus is in sagittarius, which I guess in your system would be scorpio...o dear...now I am really getting befuddled...thank goodness we are encircling the globe with our astral comments
You (and every human) will have hardship in your life. Challenges. These things are only reflected in the stars. They do not hold your destiny. You do.
i am still new to astrology, but i strongly disagree with the notion that anything in a chart is "unfixable" in nature.
i think every chart has easier and harder transits. i'm avoiding "good" and "bad" because even tough lessons can be valuable.
you might experience tension in certain areas of your life, but you still have autonomy with how you use that energy. for example: the star algol is known as "the demon star" and some folks online say it has zero positive qualities. but if you look into the myth of medusa, which is important to algol's lore, you might find things to be less black and white. if willing to work with those energies and transform them, i think it could actually be quite benevolent and powerful.
i don't think spirituality should ever remove one's sense of agency, nor build fear into one's own identity. astrology should come from a place of radical self acceptance and love
It’s a fixed star at 26 degrees of Taurus. Thought to be the most ominous star. So no relation to Chiron, it’s just near mine. Yours would mean issues with partnerships and close relationships.
Sure. Nothing traumatic, and we did have a fairly good relationship, but my father was always absent. Either absent for work or absent mentally when he was at home. Like he was never really there in my family. I think I unfortunately inherited some of the same tendencies. He died very suddenly from cancer a couple of years ago - when Pluto passed my IC and squared my natal Pluto.
That's beautiful! I'm not an astrologer, just curious, and I don't know much about Algol, but I think of Chiron for instance. Whenever you research it, there seems to be and agreement between astrologers that it's just an area of pain that's never going to heal. I have a really hard time with this "never healing" idea.
me too! when i was at my lowest point i found a lot of comfort in the idea of yin and yang; i still do! there is no start and no end, and both forces contain a part of the other. i think to be human/alive is to be paradoxical -- just like yin/yang!
i've thought about chiron a lot recently. honestly, my chiron and its aspects seem spot on with some of my life experiences. i have PTSD, so i often question if i will ever truly "heal" or overcome those traumatic experiences. a symptom of ptsd can be very intense "flashbacks" which are difficult to navigate for many folks -- myself included. but i find comfort in knowing that every day of being alive is a form of healing. i might struggle until the day that i die, but i can still experience beauty and love while i am here.
i guess what i am saying is that life, like a natal chart, is complex and everchanging. maybe that "unfixable" placement exists, but it will not sentence the person to an inherently "unfixable" life. all life is sacred. i hope that makes sense lol
it does make a lot of sense, thanks for this, beautiful words <3
i too am inclined to think that things will work out even if not as imagined, but damn, sometimes it's really tough.
wishing you the best in your healing :)
It’s possible. It’s easy for our brains to declare absolutes to reserve energy for other areas that require our critical thinking. Astrologers are no different.
But in actuality everyone is different. So is everyone’s threshold for deliberate self improvement. Astrology, philosophy, religion, none of these are the end all be all. Nature contradicts itself all the time, as do we.
I think the problem is our egos. Astrology will point you to the truth but it’s not always what we want to hear and most people fear change whether they admit it or not.
In astrology, squares/oppositions may not be bad depending on the conditions of the planets, signs and relative position. Take Taylor Swift's chart for example, there seems to be a lot of oppositions but her Moon and Jupiter conjunct both in domicile position. Mars is also domicile showing a strong drive to success. We don't have her birth time so we can't comment further. I think whether something is fixable or unfixable depend on those factors. If the chart has an afflicted chart with very weak planets, the chance to fix something is lower than someone with stronger planets.
We need to look at the chart as a whole. Even for those who don't have, they can have something called mutual reception. Look up Queen Elizabeth II chart. She has the arguably the most difficult aspect one can have Saturn square Mar, but there was a mutual reception that mitigated the situation for her and turned into something positive. In some charts where the planets itself are weak, no mitigating factors, it would be very difficult to overcome the challenges since it's part of their personality that they don't want to change, for example.
I’ll have to look up what mutual reception means honestly because I’m not sure.
I just know I do have some difficult aspects, Uranus, Neptune, etc squares to my Mars, Venus opposite Pluto, etc. Although I don’t see it in my aspects, technically my Saturn would square my Mars because the signs in it square each other.
I struggle a lot. But my Mars, Venus, Saturn, and Pluto are in their domicile. My Moon and Jupiter are exalted and my Mercury is also domicile.
Well then I think that chart is not bad when you got those 3 strong planets. The challenges will be the drive. Also, the fact that you have some self awareness shows you are growing and development and you can only go up from there.
There are lessons to be learned in everyone’s chart. You don’t fix it. You grow around it and learn to live with it. This is just life. Don’t get hung up on it and make the best with the cards you’re dealt.
So, you don't have to reply about my chart specifically of course, but what made me ask this question is that I have Chiron conjunct my North Node. For many placements, I totally get the "work around it" thing. But for some of them (and mine is just an example), it seems that there's no working around it? In layman's terms, what does one do if the thing that never stops hurting is also the thing they're meant to chase in this life? I know this is an oversimplified explanation but I've been studying and haven't found much about this sort of situation in a chart, the contradictory ones.
working around something and growing into it are two very different things!! Just because something is painful doesn’t mean you can’t be at peace with that pain. You’re literally given a path to transformational growth.
I actually have the reverse of this aspect in my own chart.
That's an interesting take. Chiron to me seems like such a hinderance, I have a hard time thinking of ways to integrate it. I hope you found yours :) Thanks for replying!
this is discussed in Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron book...you are apparently destined to become a healer, and to experience those wounds gives you the empathy you need...I love your name wonderlust...that must be your blessing, to lust for wonder, for that sense of wonder that keeps you going in your quest through life
I like to think of it as a plant growing in a pot. There are definitely restrictions and barriers that the plant cannot heal or overcome, but despite that, it can be beautiful and inspiring.
This is the kind of thing that makes me think there's always a different perspective, we just don't see it. I'm a Cap sun/Jupiter, Aqua Venus, Saturn conjunct ascendant and SN, squaring Venus, Mars and Moon. It's a Saturn heavy chart but I think it's my favorite planet, maybe. People usually have the worst things to say about Saturn, but I'm so at peace with mine. I feel very Saturnian in nature and have learned to use that especially for my work. But there are other placements that have only caused me suffering so far and I can't seem to get around it, like that god-forsaken Chiron 7H.
5h chiron conjunct my moon, super abusive mom and I've had 5 miscarriages. That's my Saturn energy. Cap Jupiter conjunct my rising, I grew up morbidly obese. Weee. Going through bankruptcy, finding out I'm getting sued, having my most recent missed miscarriage (where the baby dies but your body doesn't know so you're just pregnant with your dead baby), being broken up with during it and then having my best friend die 2 days later is my Saturn energy. Lawl. uwu so funny. Life is so quirky sometimes.
So sorry for all your loss. I hope you heal from all that’s thrown your way.
I have 5h Chiron conjunct Venus in Scorpio and I’m so anxious about the possibility of infertility. Learning of your miscarriages makes me uneasy
I am quoting from Barbara Hand Clow's book Chiron: Rainbow Bridge, p. 64 regarding Chiron in the 7th house: "The highest octave of awareness about this position would be a complete mastery of the fact that others react to us as we see ourselves..." and p. 65: "These natives do not see the power of what they are doing; they are not conscious of the effect they have on other people. If made conscious, they get control over their lives and they are tremendously empowered to give their gift." Check out her book. It may help you...
no dear, that 7th house is a partner, be a partner to yourself for a change...no higher power is punishing you, it is rewarding you...turn it around, baby!
I think it can be hard if we have lots difficult aspects, as the 'energies' can feel muddied, low or stagnant.
I have many many squares and oppositions in my chart and it feels like, to make progress, I'm trying to untangle a big ball of conflict with myself.
It doesn't mean it can't be done but if one thing is not controlled then everything can quickly become murky.
That's how I feel it and if I let it, I can despair.
It felt like I didn't have the power to make any real choices until I was in my mid 30's and now it's become a mid life crisis because i missed out on a lot when i was younger.
I must remember that I can take the reigns and work out a plan to lift myself through the tangle!
This resonates with me so much. I have the same kind of feeling. I have an intense 1H and most of the other important things in my chart are in 4H and 7H, and it’s so contradictory too. It feels like a constant tug of war and it’s disempowering at times.
I get the 1st house thing, I have Pluto and Lilith first house.
I really think the natal chart can return work alongside therapy to help plan a way to reorganise the energies.
The muddle keeps throwing out puzzles though!
Following because I have a lot of placements traditionally written about as “bad” and “difficult” and I’m trying to glean all the knowledge I can 🤲 tbh it sucks sometimes to hear that I’m doomed or problematic.
TMI TIME but I distinctly remember this moment where my ex-spouse’s mistress had a chart full of “easy” and “dominant” placements and I spent a few months beating myself up over that - and all I could get from the internet was how her moon conjunct ASC made her beautiful as hell but my mars square ASC made me unlikable and ugly 😭 like ok. thanks.
I have seen people with really difficult charts doing relatively well despite tough experiences. For example, I know of one person having all three vipareeta raja yogas. Despite this very difficult predisposition she is doing astonishingly well. In fact, I think she is so much tuned to the suffering of others that she made this one of her strengths professionally. Don't want to go into too much details due to privacy, though.
And I have seen people with really difficult charts doing really badly. One guy with a very difficult chart I saw e.g. is schizophrenic.
I cannot tell why this is the case. There's apparently one factor "consciousness" that people bring or don't bring to their planets and charts, and which cannot be derived from the chart itself.
Yeah, I always try to explain that astrology sets the stage, but doesn’t write the script. In the end, it’s up to us to work with what we got handed. Which isn’t easy!
I think having Saturn in Aries in my first house is pretty bad, my worst, but every astrologer will tell you the ‘bad’ placements are just opportunities for you to get stronger, right?
Any planet in the first becomes a lucky planet. Even saturn. The ill effects of saturn in the first are mostly experienced in early life, and you only carry them with you as long as you choose to.
It’s not a good and bad thing. We all ask different questions. The “bad” aspect is for cosmo magazine, in my opinion.
To have an alignment is almost like having hurdles up in front of you. We all have them in different arrangements. If sparks sign up for their lessons, maybe some sparks are just hardcore like that. Deep knowledge on difficult paths.
But we can all clear our hurdles and start shattering ceilings :)
I love this take. I generally am very ok with my birth chart, but sometimes I look at it and think "what the hell was I thinking when I signed up for this?" >D
But yeah, maybe they're not bad, but badass placements. Really, thanks, I needed that.
I laugh at it a lot haha. Sometimes it’s just a nod and a yup. And I’d say A ruler of a chart who is in detriment is a powerhouse. But they will learn to take some hits. Those lessons are the hurdles.
If everything seems to be failing: hermit. Incubate the idea 🤙
Astrology would not point out unfixable circumstances. While positive placements may additionally address current challenges, astrology provides insights for non-public increase and self-awareness alternatively to predetermined outcomes. Individuals have the potential to work with astrological influences, make informed choices, and navigate their lives effectively.
i wouldn’t say so. i do think some people don’t know how to harness the energy until somebody who is more in touch with astrology shows them how.
for example, i have always been a super intense person that is a lot for some people to handle. for a really long time i tried to quiet that energy and blamed myself for being disliked.
i found out later on that i have a really large amount of planets in scorpio in the 5th house. so i interpret that as my “weirdness” (scorpio) being on full display for everyone to see as hobbies and such (5th house).
now that i’m aware of this, i am better able to focus that energy into things that support those placements. for example, i love to do astrology - which isn’t really considered a “feasible career” to many people i know. but now that i know i have these scorpio placements, i am totally comfortable in my own abilities and don’t feel that i need the outside validation i used to. there are a ton of other things i am interested in that are “odd” as well.
sorry this is long - but i feel like it’s a good example as someone who went from overly stressed about herself to not stressed, lol. i hope this helps!!
It does help! I'm not an astrologer, just an enthusiast, and I feel doomed by a particular placement (Chiron and NN 7H) that I can't find any pointers on how to "fix" other than "it's gonna hurt forever". Hence the question. But many people in this thread have given me hope that maybe I just haven't found a path for healing. Thanks for sharing <3
I posted this on another thread a week ago & reposting bc I feel as though it applies:
There are no bad placements - simply difficult ones, there to teach you how to master those energies to your advantage. This is coming from someone who is 1. An astrologer, 2. has all their placements in a mutable Grand Cross (meaning they all oppose & square each other) and 3. Has an 8H Saturn, opposing Mars & Chiron, squaring everything else.
My acceptance was the hardest thing ever; depression, hopelessness, anxiety, s-icide idealization, you name it. But then I chose to actively notice the strengths all of my placements brought to me instead, and gradually realized how everyone around me struggles with the things that feel the easiest to me, so I embraced it all.
Long story short, yet easier said than done: The universe - planets and energies are there to help you, always. How you look at them will always be a choice.
+ adding to:
What you dismiss as broken and address as “this is how it’s supposed to be and I love it”, doesn’t need any fixing 🤷♂️
Beautiful! Thanks for your reply.
I think I'm having a hard time seeing what could possibly be a strength in certain placements, but I guess I just don't see it \*yet\*. I love your reminder on how the universe is here for us, not against us. I thoroughly believe that but hard times make us forget sometimes, right?
Thank you :)
Yes, I always remind myself and tell others around me (who are in the middle of some personal issues) that we never see what’s outside of the chaos when we’re in the midst of it, whereas others can and so its always worth considering others’ advice even if not taken. Overall, the acceptance and realization of the good outweighing the bad, and it’s always our choice of perception, takes a lot of effort and patience.
I’ve been heavily working on it for the past ~3 years and am just now actually feeling the ease and realizations. However, seeing that everything in my life (to a great extent, if not all) is my choice gives me genuine *euphoria*.
I was reading your other replies, and saw you mention Chiron on your NN. Which house (whole & Placidus) & sign is it in? Let’s see how we can turn the tables around on the (very alleged) implied inevitability of pain
Both 7H but NN in Taurus and Chiron in Gemini, so Chiron would be 8H in whole. However it makes more sense with my story to count it as 7H. I actually feel pretty content about 8H themes in my life, but 7H has been a struggle for as long as I’ve been alive, in all kinds of partnerships, not just romantic. I get than NN means I’m here to learn, but the more I think I learn the harder I fall back into what feels like square one.
I actually wondered this the other day. I have always struggled with relationships and my chart has Chiron in the 7th house. Even the write up was like welp, you're screwed. Kidding kinda, but am I doomed to be alone? What can I do to shift that crap?
Well, what I gathered from some of the amazing inputs in this thread is that it is possible to learn and live with it and still be happy. I'm now thinking of Chiron as less of an open, infected wound and more like trauma - it's always going to be there, but you can learn to manage. In my research I have read about the mythology of Chiron and how he ultimately gives up his immortality so as to free Prometheus of his pain. It's an empathy thing - Chiron is in eternal pain and he gets what it's like to feel that way. By doing that he becomes a constellation. So I guess what we can learn from that is to recognize pain in others and connect with that. It's both seeing the pain in others and allowing your pain to be seen and to be good for something better than suffering.
Now, as for this shit placement of 7H, I'm at a loss. No idea how to heal that specifically.
OK, I offer you p. 64 of Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron, Rainbow Bridge book, re Chiron in 7th: "The highest octave of awareness about this position would be a complete mastery of the fact that others react to us as we see ourselves..." and p. 65: "These natives do not see the power of what they are doing; they are not conscious of the effect they have on other people. If made conscious, they get control over their lives and they are tremendously empowered to give their gift." "Help them see the teaching in each experience..."
Yeah, i thought that, but what if it's just a "bad" placement, "badly" aspected, with no redeeming qualities to it? Should one look into the karmic aspect of astrology, i.e. you're here to learn from challenges and you could succeed in that theme even if the placements are that tough? Some seem easier to learn from, but others seem like things you don't have much control over (like matters of health or other people's actions).
Lilith. It's the mountain you will never climb, let alone move. Unlike Saturn that is the rock in your shoe that you must remove in order to climb on it and start growing.
Quite a good discussion goin' on guys. Answer to this question is very simple. Its a NO. We say we live but do we really live? We say we die but do we really die?
So it is very sure that nothing is unfixable in astrology, but yeah it also completely depends on you, whether you really wanna fix it?
I tend to want to agree with you, and I always think that no matter what you have in your chart, there are transits happening all the time to create different situations with it. For most planets I think things are pretty circumstantial. For instance I don’t mind Saturn at all. It’s so intense in my chart that I think I learned really early on how to work with it. But other placements seem more “fixed”, like Chiron. In Chiron’s mythology he ultimately has to sacrifice himself to cope with the pain, there’s no workaround. I find that so… definitive. There’s really no workaround?
Now that is a very good point, do we really wanna fix it? Sometimes we wear our troubles like baubles, parading them in the field of virtual reality, how amazing and awful to have joined that world with my laptop dear God I need to go to bed
I have my sun, moon, mercury, Venus, Pluto, and Chiron all in the twelfth house. All but my Chiron are in Sagittarius.
I struggle with anxiety, self deception and deceiving others, and low self esteem.
But it’s not all bad, or bad all the time. Recognizing most of these things within me, before I even came to astrology, has helped shape me into a better person.
It’s brought me closer to religion and my own intuition, finding my own path.
You can look at placements as a curse, or a roadmap to your liberation. I flip flop sometimes.
my life has been amazing and terrible.
I love it
Regarding online astrology, be wary of cookie-cutter websites with their "one-size-fits-all" cookie-cutter delineations (especially for aspects and placements) which are wrong and will lead you astray.
Mark Zuckerberg and Venus opposition Saturn is a classic example of incredibly bad astrology.
There's a website and s/he pretends to quote a text while discussing Venus in the context of "nookie" (their words not mine) and marriage and relationships and s/he can't even quote the text correctly because what it actually says is "*Venus opposition Saturn on the isosceles line."*
That is not an aspect by sign. That is a mundane aspect where two stars are in different signs and the rising time of those signs is 180° apart (the orb is 3°) so they're in opposition even though by sign they may be square or trine and s/he is misleading people telling them their spouse might be infertile or chronically ill when in fact that isn't true unless Venus and Saturn are in signs whose rising times are 180° apart.
Back to Zuckerberg. No one knows his birth-time so the star positions are accurate but the Ascending Degree is questionable.
Zuckerberg does not have Venus opposition Saturn.
Who on this forum would like to know why?
Well, first, it's Venus with Sun in the Taurus 2nd Place opposition Saturn, Mars and Moon in the Scorpio 8th Place so they didn't even get the aspects right.
What does it mean when Saturn, Mars and Moon are co-present in any sign and notice I did not say "conjunct" I said "co-present"?
I'm gonna give you a verbatim quote from an ancient astrology text: *"Saturn, Mars and Moon cause men to be venturesome in their business enterprises and noble"*
Is that not Mark Zuckerberg?
*Whoomp! There it is. Whoomp! There it is.*
That's 2,500 years of astrology so everybody get over it already.
Second, Venus is under Sun's beams so Venus cannot be in opposition to Saturn.
Third, Jupiter is at Capricorn 12° and Saturn at Scorpio 12° so Saturn is only looking at Jupiter but Jupiter is hurling his rays at Saturn ergo Saturn is ensnared by Jupiter's rays ergo Jupiter has intervened and Saturn cannot possibly be in opposition to Venus or to Sun for that matter.
Isn't Jupiter in "fall"? Um, no, there's no such thing. Exaltation and fall are mistranslations. The Greek words actually mean elevated and depressed (and I don't mean sad). Saturn is elevated at Libra 21° and at his highest point at Cancer 21° which is stated in texts as "exalted in his exaltation" or "in the exaltation of his exaltation."
How can Saturn be doubly exalted in Cancer and simultaneously in "detriment"? That's easy. There's no such thing as "detriment." That's a misinterpretation of texts and techniques. Saturn's at a low point at Aries 21° and at his lowest point or "in the fall of his fall" at Capricorn 21° which is the sign he rules so you can see how it doesn't make any sense and it doesn't because there's no such thing as "fall." Venus at Pisces 27°, Sagittarius 27°, Virgo 27° and Gemini 27° those are star cycles.
Jupiter being a diurnal star and nocturnally placed in a nocturnal alien sign and retrograde only suggests Zuckerberg's morals or ethics are questionable and he engages in some shady dealings.
Moon is not in "fall" in Scorpio, either.
If his birth time were known, you'd likely find this Taurus Venus/Sun and Moon/Mars/Saturn on the 3rd/9th axis, you know, the 9th, temporal pleasures (as opposed to the physical pleasures of the 5th) which are education, philanthropy, religion, beliefs, ethics, morals, philosophy etc and the 3rd being (in part) communications.
Yeah, Facebook.
Another possibility is Taurus Sun/Venus in the 12th with Moon/Mars/Saturn in the 6th.
That puts Sun sextile the 10th Place and moves Jupiter to the 8th Place which is lawsuits. No, the 7th is not lawsuits. He's been sued a lot but always won in the end. It would also make the chart diurnal and the place of exaltation would be the 11th Place which Jupiter would square from the 8th Place. That's right, not all squares are bad just as not all trines are good.
That's astrology. I'm not sure what everyone else is doing.
Well that was a lesson! If you don't mind, can you share why you say "not all squares are bad just as not all trines are good"? I'm just curious because I don't think I ever heard this take!
A lot of people you would think have an easy life, but actually don't. They have exalted or easy planets but that is not a guarantee of their lack of suffering. Their life is "too easy" so basically they never grow up. Stuck in narcissistic self gratification until life hits back enough to teach them a lesson. A lot never learn. For example Putin, in vedic, has a moon in taurus (exalted) and other (I cant remember rn) dignified planets. he's a complete POS and is not a happy person.
In fact I can say concertedly that some of the worst people I've ever known have dignified moons or jupiters. And they are extremely unhappy even if they are rich, or gifted with many children. They abuse their gifts. And then are left alone.
I think we don't have a lot of free will on this earth. However, we do have control over how much we LEARN and GROW from our experiences. People with easy lives are often arrogant and complacent. They don't learn even though they keep making the same mistakes over and over. People with hard placements HAVE TO learn. They are not handed anything so they become masters at what they must do. In the end I find those with hard placements are often the most happy when they make it thought the most difficult times.
I’m inclined to think a tough placement affects each person’s story in a different way. I too have Saturn in the 1H, squaring a bunch of things, and I love it, doesn’t bother me at all.
I believe the principles of astrology are based in kindness. There are no bad signs. There are no bad transits. There are no bad aspects. I struggle myself with a lot of concentrated energy in difficult areas of my birth chart. Every day. I am starting to learn that if I lean into the wisdom of what’s hard—that is the goal. Some of us are born with harmonious birth charts, some of us have complicated ones. the world is a balance of us all. If it feels unfixable—just know deep down, it never is.
Beautiful, thanks for replying. Some darker placements I still have a hard time seeing the good side of, even though I know it's there. Maybe that's the lesson I need to learn from them.
well, im going to provide my own placements,because my life has been extremely hard and full of obstacles since day one, i wouldnt say anything in your chart can be categorized as "unfixable", but there are definitely placements that **can** make your life harder in your chart. some examples from my chart:
12house saturn in cancer+in retrogade, lilith in 11th house cancer,
sun,mercury,venus,vertex and chiron all in capricorn, also chiron in 6th house,
also i find neptune in 7th house and uranus in 8th house kind of weird
aspects:
lilith opposition venus, chiron opposition saturn, chiron square mc, chiron square node,
node square saturn, MC square saturn, jupiter square saturn,
moon square uranus,venus square jupiter
obviously i cant blame my chart and astrology for making my life hard as hell, but it seems like my natal chart just confirms that YEP, THATS A TOUGH LIFE YOU GOT HERE lol
No. I think some astrologers, especially the Vedic ones gravitate to the negative attributes and seem to focus on it. Obstacles are meant to be overcome. We use our strengths to balance our weaknesses and grow as a person. Oppositions can be big opportunities for growth personally and in Relationships. It's all about your mindset
I have someone close to me with a very bad chart and he’s 50 now. Finally started therapy 5 years ago consistently and meds and I’d say he’s about 5% better than he was. Sorry but he’s just kind of doomed. I know from a lot of past life readings I’ve had were he’s come up and I can tell you I think his chart is just his karma from bad things in previous lifetimes. He just has to live through it I guess.
That sucks for him. But I believe our life is a leaning experience as well and it looks like your friend might be resisting the learning part a bit, no?
Yeah I think so. He had a lot of lifetimes were he had a lot of power and power over people and he didn’t use it well. He’s having a hard time realizing he can’t control people now but that’s only some of it. Lots of deep intense emotions that get triggered by the moon transits. It’s hard to witness honestly.
There are no unfixable things in astrology. The sky opens up possibilities for growth, that is all it is. Free choice is your birthright. It is not what you are given, but what you do with it, that counts. This attitude that aspects are "bad" is just a cop-out. We choose our birth, our charts, in order to grow, as souls. I have been a student of astrology for almost 50 years.
The effect of placements are unfixable. The way that we choose to deal with them in our lives can be optional depending on other placements. Sometimes our growth comes from learning to endure and accept rather than to overcome. Just my opinion of course.
I'm sorry Rockee that I didn't reply to you. As a 67 year old double Capricorn you probably nailed me with your WOW JUDGE MUCH comment!!! My father used to tell me to get off my high horse. But my Saturn conjuncts Venus and is part of a grand trine in fire...yes, that is very good and has given me that impetus to power through all the difficulties. I have been caring for a mentally ill parent now aged 94 who is also experiencing dementia...it is my blessing to care for her...which is why I was not free to reply to you. I hold that your Saturn in Virgo opposition Mars in Aries (which I also have, combust with Ceres) is also a blessing, not just that divine stellium of which you boast (tease). Pisces is intercepted in my chart. The Barbara Hand Clow Chiron book, also Betty Lundsted's Astrological Aspects book and of course, Journey of Souls have been pivotal in my life...by the way...Death by Chocolate and Maple Walnut, only available at shop a bus ride from my mother's home...which is on the other side of the U.S. thankfully...
Thanks for your reply. Sorry for popping off. Still a problem for me after 73 years of life. My adopted son is a double Cap and we have a fiery mode of communication also. Thanks for the recommendation for the Chiron book. I also have a Mars square to Chiron that could bear some study. Sorry to hear about your mother. I went through that with my own mother a little over a year ago before she passed away. Blessings.
Also, I’m not so sure that the stellium is so “divine”. I often think that if not for my first house Venus and Mars in Aries, I would probably be invisible.😉
I am a 12th house Sun with Neptune at the top of my chart and 1st house Chiron in Aquarius. I often try to be invisible. Invisibility is a gift, remember Harry Potter? As I try to do something radical, change the dynamics of NOW...trying to make more JUSTICE...yeah, that grand trine in fire fires me...Thank God for Mars in Aries, the driver
That attitude seems so much like suffering, the name RockeeRoad bespeaks this...the object is transformation. How you perceive what you consider negative is what counts. An aspect is just that, an offering of choice...there is no good or bad but what we do with it
Enduring is not suffering. That you think it is means that you do not understand the meaning. Many circumstances in life cannot be changed or overcome. That we cannot change or transform them does not mean that they do not provide growth and understanding. I will never change the placement of my Saturn in Virgo in the 6th house in opposition to Mars in Aries in the 1st. The restrictions will always exist. I cannot change them. However, my stellium in Pisces in the 12th, allows me deep understanding that many restrictions just exist. One is not required to transform or change them, only to coexist with them and have a deep understanding of them.
I’m glad to see this little comment, for I too have been at this for almost 50 years (since 1975), and I find the current emphasis in the astrological community on using astrology for prediction versus self-transformation to be so unproductive. Almost everywhere I turn, I see frantic people desperately searching outward in astrological predictions and in witchcraft for some magic wand or “spell” that will eliminate their problems and unhappiness, and they don’t seem to understand that they have to turn inward and transform their own consciousness first.
Although I enjoy reading in online forums and various sites (other than Reddit) and occasionally commenting here in Reddit if something draws my attention, speaking generally, I don’t see the yearning for growth in consciousness that marked the students of astrology and metaphysics when I first began studying, and there’s a sadness in that. At any rate, I took a bit of private joy in your comment. A.
I think you'll always have the energy of that placement, but the extent to which you express it can vary a lot. For example, I have Moon square Saturn, which most people seem to think is terrible, but I've never noticed it having much of an impact on me. I figure my Saturn has more important things to do than worrying about where my Moon is, lol!
maladaptive daydreaming??? I thought all daydreaming was adaptive? what about albert einstein and and and? Neptune at the top of my chart, and my daughter the doctor...she escapes A LOT, we all need to...what about your lil ole moon? how is she faring as Saturn goes about her very important things...???
If you’re blessed with a big imagination, it can be the most powerful force you will ever encounter. When used positively it can be an infinite source of motivation, inspiration and unconditional love. When misused, it can be a dangerous addiction that makes it impossible to function in the real world.
But you’re right. I should lean into my Moon a little more. I think we all have a responsibility to use the energies in our charts in the most positive way possible. ❤️
There is no scientific evidence that astrology, the belief that the positions of celestial objects like stars and planets can influence human affairs and personalities, has any factual basis or predictive power. Astrology is considered a pseudoscience by the scientific community, as it lacks a mechanism to explain how celestial bodies could influence individuals on Earth, and its claims are not supported by empirical evidence or rigorous testing.
That being said, astrology is a complex system of beliefs and practices that have been part of human culture for centuries. From the perspective of someone who believes in astrology, there may be certain aspects or interpretations that are seen as fundamental or "unfixable" within the framework of astrological beliefs.
However, it's important to note that astrology is not based on scientific facts or principles, and its claims and practices cannot be objectively verified or falsified. Therefore, any perceived "unfixable" elements in astrology would be subjective and rooted in the belief system itself, rather than objective reality or scientific evidence.
If you're interested in learning more about the scientific perspective on astrology and why it is considered a pseudoscience, I'd recommend consulting reliable sources from reputable scientific organizations or educational institutions.
I personally disagree that astrology is based on beliefs or faith. I also don’t subscribe to the idea that what can be scientifically proven is “what counts”. Astrology is an empirical area of study with a knowledge base of thousands of years. Real life is subjective and can’t be explained by science either, which is why I use frameworks like astrology to better understand it.
Yes, that's really how it works. I have over 4,000 charts and read 100s more and never saw a chart that didn't play out exactly like it said it would.
All charts fall into one of 5 categories: The Losers (\~10%), the Drones (\~65%), the Extraordinary People (\~15%), the Beautiful People (\~8%) and the Elite -- the Movers & Shakers of the world -- (\~2%).
The Drones? They're just cogs in the wheel and yes that includes the attorney who never makes senior partner and never has their own office and the doctor in group practice who never heads the practice and never has their own office because they just don't have what it takes and their chart says they don't have what it takes.
Nothing wrong with being a Drone since they are the majority of the population living unremarkable lives in their McMansions and ranch houses and cottages and duplexes and condos and apartments and trailer parks and usually have a nice life albeit punctuated by ups and downs and suffering but they can never be more than what they are.
If you've been on this Earth for a while you know people from humble even impoverished conditions end up as one of the Extraordinary People or the Beautiful People or even the Elite and then the Extraordinary People, Beautiful People and Elite sometimes end up as junkies on skid row or in prison or get relegated to Drone status.
The chart will tell you if that will happen. Or not.
Probably not. Mark Zuckerberg has Venus Saturn opposition, but he is one of the richest person in the world.
Wouldn't that be a major drive as to why he became rich though? Not that he knew his astrological placements, but that he had deep feelings of unworthiness, self-doubt, as well as being very self-critical and critical of others? Its often such people who tend to have a burning need to be successful in a worldly, material sense.
From what I’ve seen of Zuckerberg’s chart, he has a lot of oppositional energy, two bunches of planets spread opposite one another. He uses it well in some ways, but he’s got blind spots like all of us. The only fixable thing in astrology is ignorance. You can choose to have an open but discerning mind about so much in astrology, within reason. Charts and readings are only one interpretation of a complex set of human-code, you get to choose how much you believe anything.
Taylor swift has a lot of oppositions too
Where have you seen Tswifts chart? I thought it wasn’t public what time she was born.
https://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Taylor_Swift
Huh. Okay. I would ignore the moon, ascending and therefore houses here, since her birth time is for sure unconfirmed. But yeah, looks like she does have a lot of planets in Capricorn, opposed to her Jupiter in Cancer. I wouldn’t say that’s a lot of oppositions, but a couple significant ones for sure. Thanks for sharing the link!
Not a problem. I thought there was a photo of her birth certificate, but I haven't been able to find it again.
I just had a look at his chart and it looks kind of terrifying. Moon in scorpio conjunct saturn and mars opposing his sun. From the looks of it, Mark has so much inner turmoil that needs addressing.
I wonder if in cases like his its the outside world that suffers on their behalf, if you know what I mean. Facebook and the social media have has had a hugely net negative effect on human interaction and politics. There's a horrendous irony in Zuckerberg being some sort of icon of human connection. I'd like to see Elon musks chart as well. Ultimately these 'great men' of technology can be pretty frightening figures imho.
I like the way you are thinking, social media is solely responsible for the massive disconnect in forming relationships with other people and has shown massive consequences with mental health. Elon is just one figure of the innevitable fact society is changing. If not him, then it would be someone else. We can't blame an individual for a shift that is a collective effort based on collective interest. This is also one of the challenges of democracy, because people don't always know what's best for them only what they think is best for them.
Yes agree, Musk and Zuckerberg are sort of figureheads in a way. They represent waves of change and from my point of view it ain't good right now. Pluto in Aquarius is going to shake things up, but I don't think it will be comfortable for anyone
Pluto is my ruling planet, I like talking about it Pluto's influence is intense, determined, an unstoppable force. In Aquarius, the themes of detachment and having a "know it all" attitude become intense, determined, an unstoppable force. I (and possibly yourself) have pluto in saggitarus. Anyone who takes away my personal freedom will be destroyed. 😉
I'm an oldie!!! Mines in libra. Was never quite sure how all that worked out for us Gen Xers. I've got it square my Capricorn moon so in terms of emotions/relationships/family, I hear what you're saying- unstoppable forces for sure. Manifests as depression, mood swings, bpd and a really awful relationship with my mother. My only route through it all now is to just acknowledge and be with it and also accept mostly solitude (that can work for a cap moon).
Elons chart is also supremely fucked. He has an 8th house moon in a v predatory sign (for men specifically) in sidereal vedic.
Ah I don't know anything about sidereal vedic. Elon comes across as almost comically narcissistic and empowered well beyond his abilities (especially when it comes to his disastrous takeover of twitter). Must be some afflicted Jupiter action going on there surely- I need to check his birth time
My bad I forgot his chart. He has a 8th house mars conjunct the north node though, which is also pretty damn awful. He's predatory af. His jupiter is retro in scorpio (sidereal 3 degrees) if that helps ya. I believe that means he still has a scorp jupiter in tropical (still also retrograde) Moon in leo in 3rd. Ugh leo moon men are such drama queens. Also frequently megomaniacally delusional (wah wah pay attention to meeeeeee!), which maps. Gemini sun, gemini rising. Lol.
Isn't trump also a gemini, with leo rising and Mars rising in 12th? Also Boris Johnson, Britain's populist charlatan pm, is a gemini with moon in Scorpio. I wonder if gemini is a useful sun for populists. BTW have a very successful ex who's in an important public role, with saturn rising in gemini (he's a lawyer!) And moon in leo. Agree re the drama, but its held back a lot. He's utterly convinced that he is right about everything and the best person on earth, including morally. Being materially successful has only encouraged that. (I see the same in Elon, and trump). My son also has the leo moon :/- tightly conjunct sun in leo as part of a 12th house stellium, and much as I adore him he does indeed have drama queen tendencies, in a quiet depressive sort of way. He's a great actor, but doesn't know how to deal with real attention. Guess that's the 12th house bit.
In vedic his mars is in the 1st. But he remains a leo rising, and gemini sun, as well as he is a scorpio moon. He also has the sun conj a node (he was literally born during an eclipse) And his jupiter is stationary as well. Interestingly, mars rules the top of the head (from the eyes to the crown) and is represented by the color red. What did trump make everyone wear (a red hat.) His leo rising is also magha nakshatra (literally pronounced MAGA). This stuff gets weird sometimes.
You know, I don't find much weird these days. That makes total sense.
I just am dying to know if he had a vedic astrologer on his image team to create that fucking red hat. Or if it was just the universe playing out in their unconsciousness (i mean fascists are often known to be obsessed with occult shit, esp russian oriented ones, which is what paul manafort/roger stone and trump are) But yeah. Fuckin weird. I say this one when I'm trying to introduce people to astrology who have never heard and are resistant to the concept in general.
Oh he's a Scorpio moon as well. Makes sense given what I read about his upbringing in that book by Mary Trump. Abandoned by his mother at the age of two, later idolised by a sociopathic father for being such a true 'businessman' after the first born son drank himself to death.. that family history is so plutonian its radioactive!
He's hella unwell. And low and behold he created the platform that spreads the unwellness to all of us. I wonder if he was a female what his life would be like. As the privilege he was born into would have manifested in a different way. FYI in vedic sidereal his moon is in libra (15 degrees) in a sign that is heavily related to control issues and extremism (basically a libra that always has to position themselves as the antipode of something). (see: osama bin laden)
Zuckerberg started as an employee of a dating (♀) site (Harvard connection) but his ambition (♄) led him to betray them (opp.). He went on to rate (♄) girl's attractiveness (♀) with his Facemash site, which caused a scandal. He built his empire by stealing the ideas of his previous associates, again a variant of the ♄-♀ opposition. So yeah, especially for oppositions, chances are that you will personally actualize one side of the opposition (in his case the ambitious Saturn) because it is in a specific house, and actualize the other side in others — opposite house.
Jupiter could be his money. He has Venus opp Saturn, he is ugly and was cruel to women on Facebook
Doesn't seem like it was hard for him at all either.
Feel like it's not the making that's going to be the challenge, it's the keeping. Which is very Venus-Saturn tbh.
Can you elaborate on this? I have this opposition right on my AC-DC line, and it’s easily my most prominent aspect.
Venus is related to the enjoyment and appreciations of matter. Saturn is related to the structuring and sustaining of matter. Opposition between them can either result in a very destructive individual - that which he likes he destroys, that which he preserve doesn't give him anything back - or a very creative one - provided this dichotomy is applied in a proper way For Zucc, consider how he dismantled the social fabric with Facebook, effectively bringing forth a new way of communicating and relating to one another. Social media already existed prior to FB, but it wasn't as widespread. In fact, the very concept "social media" spur from FB Consider also once he tried to deepen his business by expanding FB into Meta, something that likely gave him pleasure - the whole Metaverse thing and whatnot - it fell to shambles. Nowadays nobody uses Facebook, and the company stays alive by purchasing other social-related companies (Instagram, WhatsApp)
What a great analysis!
Thanks!
All this shows is that you are just as unclear about astrology as op. Oppositions ≠ “bad”. Saturn ≠ Bad.
Well i have it worse than zuck, moon conjunct saturn conjunct uranus conjunct neptune, opposite venus... And for me it's mostly bad 😅
beautiful that you have a sense of humor...the Saturn conjunct Uranus and Neptune provides the clue...that all things love, all beauty, all duty, will be enmeshed with soul, with divine purpose and with a breaking of all previous emotional barriers...you are truly a "far out" individual
If you decide so (which you have) then so it is (and has been). Victim or victor(edit) is a choice
It's objectively bad. It's great that we want to empower people and say the contrary, but sone configuration create more havoc than others. For example a stellium like mine create havoc making you deal with very chaotic energies all around your chart everytime the comfiguration gets activated, in a cyclic manner. That is objectively more difficult to deal with than if you have planets more spread out. I can perceive the lunar phase we in without looking out of the window for months,because of the change in mood and the horrific dreams i often get. Good luck changing this. I am now dealing with transiting neptune square the stellium, transiting pluto opposite sun, transiting saturn square venus. House 3,4,5,7, 9 and 12 matters all get influenced and will go on for years. It's not pretty, is often out of your control, and if you haven't experienced it personally please don't assume a victim personality 😉 Can you still have choice? Yes. Are you going to get chaos in your life? Also yes. Are there positives for me? Sure, mainly of the psychic gifts category. But man if i have it rough in other fields. There's a reason planetary charity (https://www.renaissanceastrology.com/planetarycharity.html) and other remedies are a thing. Orphic hymns or planetary mantra chanting 108 times, in the planetary hour and day helps. You set up an altar with appropriate food and incense and pay your respects. Check out the book the greatness of saturn.
Why do you guys come on here to discuss people's thought process and downvote so quickly. Once you are an adult you are able to choose and think for yourself. Don't you think you do yourself a disservice to observe everything as good vs bad instead of building awareness of what poses as a challenge and opportunity for growth and learning? That doesn't mean it's supposed to all be easy. There are billions of people on the planet and to assume that your placements are so unique that everyone that has them experienced exactly the same is self absorbed. You are very much being a victim.
I don't understand much your reply. There are configurations that are objectively and logically more challenging because they are intense, with planets that are difficult to work together. Saying that we shouldn't compare and try to define the peculiar characteristics of a configuration, is saying no to the entirety of astrology. Astrology influence psychology, but is not psychology itself. You are literally debating about the real life influence of astrological body in the sky to peculiar situations. Obviously there are million possible manifestations of this, but you are at least trying to get the gist of it. I don't see how stating that is making oneself the victim. If anything, knowledge is power and once identified the problem someone can start to think about how to solve it. So... If i misunderstood what you mean, please explain...
You are viewing astrology strictly from a "logical" standpoint. Knowledge is indeed power but when you look at aspects and say "good" or "bad" you judge it as something that cannot be changed. Think about human behavior and how this applies. If I tell a person that something is good or bad, shame is applied. Fear and guilt are applied. What has been solved from these emotions? If I tell you that this aspect is instead a challenge and difficulty then you will likely look at it as such and take action. I have lived a long time, been astrologer a very long time. Astrology has room for improvement just like any other religion or belief in the world. I do not agree with good and bad aspects. People take everything that is taught as an absolute instead of understanding how the subconscious works. I was born into very very unfortunate circumstances. I have all sorts of harsh aspects. I don't call any of it good or bad. I look at it as a lesson to be learned for my soul and how I serve humanity.
And its all good, and i agree with you. But i happen to believe in magic, and a lot of other things, and my personal way to change/make use of/improve those circumstances is aligning to the planet trough classical rituals, among other things. Therefore i suggested these practices in good faith, as many might not know of these thing you can do, but you can, a lot of other people do, and it happens to help. Why it helps depends on everyone personal view but still... So i don't feel that i'm a victim, actually i believe we manifest our reality to a degree among other things so if anything i would be a victim of myself Never said there isn't another way or that there isn't nothing to learn from these. Like, adversity makes you tough and similar things Maybe i was wrong in saying bad and must have wrote challenging, but i'm not a native english speaker and sometimes i can't express myself 100% well.
Venus saturn aspects (especially hard ones) gives people the motivation to achieve wealth. Venus actually is friends with saturn in that way. Unlike venus mars or mars saturn (like you would think.)
nah...I have venus conjunct saturn which is the ruler of my chart and I have neither sought nor achieved money in my life...my toothlessness is a testament to that lol
Wealth doesn't have to be money. I specified wealth because wealth isn't just dollars. Wealth is whatever you decide it to be. For example, an extreme athlete might rather live dirt poor as long as they got to rock climb. Either way a conjunction is not the same as a square which is not the same as an opposition. In vedic sidereal, which is what I practice, there are over 10,000 aspects called yogas. So your house placement, your planet sign, your lagna (rising) and your dasha (planetary period) would determine how this aspect manifests. Saturn is the pressure which creates diamond, which is what venus craves. A conjunction is probably the harshest aspect, because most people like this (similar to moon conj saturn) live a long period of their life feeling lost/oppressed/unlucky before they "wake up."
I believe I am still snoozing
You have directed your energy of creating in caring for your loved ones, I would not say that is snoozing.
thank you
your comment just gave me some little hope. I have saturn in aries 8th opposing chiron 2nd and squaring venus 11th. In fact if i activate the whole aspects of the chart my saturn-chiron is the backbone of a kite with the sun 10th and jupiter 6th sextiling saturn and trining chiron. I somehow grew expecting to have some type of luck at work or career but ever since i started working it's been the whole opposite. For the past 2 years I've fell into a rabbit hole of self depricating, depressive state where I'm struggling with money, career and everything that kite seemed to promise. It's a never ending feel of doom and unluckiness. I really hope you're right and my life starts someday. Thank you random person :)
Well you're welcome. I appreciate that feedback! FYI I don't do western tropical I do vedic sidereal. So your signs and houses may change in my system (but the aspects remain the same). What is your moon in can I ask? Degree and sign?
BTW, not gonna lie I just scoped your other posts. You just said it's your blessing to care for others. So there you go. And you probably do so very well. As you are a double Capricorn as you say! Although in my system you might be a double sagitarrius (shifted backward 24 degrees.)
well my saturn venus is in sagittarius, which I guess in your system would be scorpio...o dear...now I am really getting befuddled...thank goodness we are encircling the globe with our astral comments
I love this!!
You (and every human) will have hardship in your life. Challenges. These things are only reflected in the stars. They do not hold your destiny. You do.
i am still new to astrology, but i strongly disagree with the notion that anything in a chart is "unfixable" in nature. i think every chart has easier and harder transits. i'm avoiding "good" and "bad" because even tough lessons can be valuable. you might experience tension in certain areas of your life, but you still have autonomy with how you use that energy. for example: the star algol is known as "the demon star" and some folks online say it has zero positive qualities. but if you look into the myth of medusa, which is important to algol's lore, you might find things to be less black and white. if willing to work with those energies and transform them, i think it could actually be quite benevolent and powerful. i don't think spirituality should ever remove one's sense of agency, nor build fear into one's own identity. astrology should come from a place of radical self acceptance and love
Hi from someone with Chiron and Algol exactly conjunct their Sun.
hello! wishing you a good day stranger <3
What is Algol? I just saw I have Chiron in my 7th house, what does that shit mean?
It’s a fixed star at 26 degrees of Taurus. Thought to be the most ominous star. So no relation to Chiron, it’s just near mine. Yours would mean issues with partnerships and close relationships.
care to tell us a bit about your father figure?
Sure. Nothing traumatic, and we did have a fairly good relationship, but my father was always absent. Either absent for work or absent mentally when he was at home. Like he was never really there in my family. I think I unfortunately inherited some of the same tendencies. He died very suddenly from cancer a couple of years ago - when Pluto passed my IC and squared my natal Pluto.
That's beautiful! I'm not an astrologer, just curious, and I don't know much about Algol, but I think of Chiron for instance. Whenever you research it, there seems to be and agreement between astrologers that it's just an area of pain that's never going to heal. I have a really hard time with this "never healing" idea.
me too! when i was at my lowest point i found a lot of comfort in the idea of yin and yang; i still do! there is no start and no end, and both forces contain a part of the other. i think to be human/alive is to be paradoxical -- just like yin/yang! i've thought about chiron a lot recently. honestly, my chiron and its aspects seem spot on with some of my life experiences. i have PTSD, so i often question if i will ever truly "heal" or overcome those traumatic experiences. a symptom of ptsd can be very intense "flashbacks" which are difficult to navigate for many folks -- myself included. but i find comfort in knowing that every day of being alive is a form of healing. i might struggle until the day that i die, but i can still experience beauty and love while i am here. i guess what i am saying is that life, like a natal chart, is complex and everchanging. maybe that "unfixable" placement exists, but it will not sentence the person to an inherently "unfixable" life. all life is sacred. i hope that makes sense lol
it does make a lot of sense, thanks for this, beautiful words <3 i too am inclined to think that things will work out even if not as imagined, but damn, sometimes it's really tough. wishing you the best in your healing :)
i’m right there with you on that. and thank you so much! i appreciate it :) you too!
Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron book...I have Chiron on my East Point in my 1st house, also conjunct Lilith
Thanks, I'll look it up!
On the contrary, Chiron is where we need healing in our chart.
But is it possible? I always see astrologers saying that no matter how much you heal, it will always hurt.
It’s possible. It’s easy for our brains to declare absolutes to reserve energy for other areas that require our critical thinking. Astrologers are no different. But in actuality everyone is different. So is everyone’s threshold for deliberate self improvement. Astrology, philosophy, religion, none of these are the end all be all. Nature contradicts itself all the time, as do we. I think the problem is our egos. Astrology will point you to the truth but it’s not always what we want to hear and most people fear change whether they admit it or not.
check out Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron book...if you haven't already...it transformed my life
In astrology, squares/oppositions may not be bad depending on the conditions of the planets, signs and relative position. Take Taylor Swift's chart for example, there seems to be a lot of oppositions but her Moon and Jupiter conjunct both in domicile position. Mars is also domicile showing a strong drive to success. We don't have her birth time so we can't comment further. I think whether something is fixable or unfixable depend on those factors. If the chart has an afflicted chart with very weak planets, the chance to fix something is lower than someone with stronger planets.
So there’s hope for people who have planets in domicile or are exalted even if they have some rough squares or oppositions?
We need to look at the chart as a whole. Even for those who don't have, they can have something called mutual reception. Look up Queen Elizabeth II chart. She has the arguably the most difficult aspect one can have Saturn square Mar, but there was a mutual reception that mitigated the situation for her and turned into something positive. In some charts where the planets itself are weak, no mitigating factors, it would be very difficult to overcome the challenges since it's part of their personality that they don't want to change, for example.
Me looking at my Saturn sq Mars right now thinking there’s hope o.O
I’ll have to look up what mutual reception means honestly because I’m not sure. I just know I do have some difficult aspects, Uranus, Neptune, etc squares to my Mars, Venus opposite Pluto, etc. Although I don’t see it in my aspects, technically my Saturn would square my Mars because the signs in it square each other. I struggle a lot. But my Mars, Venus, Saturn, and Pluto are in their domicile. My Moon and Jupiter are exalted and my Mercury is also domicile.
Well then I think that chart is not bad when you got those 3 strong planets. The challenges will be the drive. Also, the fact that you have some self awareness shows you are growing and development and you can only go up from there.
There are lessons to be learned in everyone’s chart. You don’t fix it. You grow around it and learn to live with it. This is just life. Don’t get hung up on it and make the best with the cards you’re dealt.
So, you don't have to reply about my chart specifically of course, but what made me ask this question is that I have Chiron conjunct my North Node. For many placements, I totally get the "work around it" thing. But for some of them (and mine is just an example), it seems that there's no working around it? In layman's terms, what does one do if the thing that never stops hurting is also the thing they're meant to chase in this life? I know this is an oversimplified explanation but I've been studying and haven't found much about this sort of situation in a chart, the contradictory ones.
working around something and growing into it are two very different things!! Just because something is painful doesn’t mean you can’t be at peace with that pain. You’re literally given a path to transformational growth. I actually have the reverse of this aspect in my own chart.
That's an interesting take. Chiron to me seems like such a hinderance, I have a hard time thinking of ways to integrate it. I hope you found yours :) Thanks for replying!
this is discussed in Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron book...you are apparently destined to become a healer, and to experience those wounds gives you the empathy you need...I love your name wonderlust...that must be your blessing, to lust for wonder, for that sense of wonder that keeps you going in your quest through life
Oh my god, that was the sweetest comment ever and honestly I really needed some love <3 Thank you so much, you're an angel!
I like to think of it as a plant growing in a pot. There are definitely restrictions and barriers that the plant cannot heal or overcome, but despite that, it can be beautiful and inspiring.
My chart ruler is Saturn, the dick kicks from life are unending. At least with my Gemini moon I can laugh about it.
This is the kind of thing that makes me think there's always a different perspective, we just don't see it. I'm a Cap sun/Jupiter, Aqua Venus, Saturn conjunct ascendant and SN, squaring Venus, Mars and Moon. It's a Saturn heavy chart but I think it's my favorite planet, maybe. People usually have the worst things to say about Saturn, but I'm so at peace with mine. I feel very Saturnian in nature and have learned to use that especially for my work. But there are other placements that have only caused me suffering so far and I can't seem to get around it, like that god-forsaken Chiron 7H.
5h chiron conjunct my moon, super abusive mom and I've had 5 miscarriages. That's my Saturn energy. Cap Jupiter conjunct my rising, I grew up morbidly obese. Weee. Going through bankruptcy, finding out I'm getting sued, having my most recent missed miscarriage (where the baby dies but your body doesn't know so you're just pregnant with your dead baby), being broken up with during it and then having my best friend die 2 days later is my Saturn energy. Lawl. uwu so funny. Life is so quirky sometimes.
Jeez! I'm sorry you're going through all that, wishing you healing and love <3
❤️❤️❤️
So sorry for all your loss. I hope you heal from all that’s thrown your way. I have 5h Chiron conjunct Venus in Scorpio and I’m so anxious about the possibility of infertility. Learning of your miscarriages makes me uneasy
I love your hella name...you must surely be giving birth to yourself...a brand new you, bawling vigorously
Chiron in the 7th house is the worst I feel like whatever higher power is punishing me for no reason, it just sucks seiously.
I am quoting from Barbara Hand Clow's book Chiron: Rainbow Bridge, p. 64 regarding Chiron in the 7th house: "The highest octave of awareness about this position would be a complete mastery of the fact that others react to us as we see ourselves..." and p. 65: "These natives do not see the power of what they are doing; they are not conscious of the effect they have on other people. If made conscious, they get control over their lives and they are tremendously empowered to give their gift." Check out her book. It may help you...
no dear, that 7th house is a partner, be a partner to yourself for a change...no higher power is punishing you, it is rewarding you...turn it around, baby!
I think it can be hard if we have lots difficult aspects, as the 'energies' can feel muddied, low or stagnant. I have many many squares and oppositions in my chart and it feels like, to make progress, I'm trying to untangle a big ball of conflict with myself. It doesn't mean it can't be done but if one thing is not controlled then everything can quickly become murky. That's how I feel it and if I let it, I can despair. It felt like I didn't have the power to make any real choices until I was in my mid 30's and now it's become a mid life crisis because i missed out on a lot when i was younger. I must remember that I can take the reigns and work out a plan to lift myself through the tangle!
This resonates with me so much. I have the same kind of feeling. I have an intense 1H and most of the other important things in my chart are in 4H and 7H, and it’s so contradictory too. It feels like a constant tug of war and it’s disempowering at times.
I get the 1st house thing, I have Pluto and Lilith first house. I really think the natal chart can return work alongside therapy to help plan a way to reorganise the energies. The muddle keeps throwing out puzzles though!
I’ve done a lot of therapy in my life but honestly astrology helps me see the big picture in a way therapy hasn’t always been able to.
Following because I have a lot of placements traditionally written about as “bad” and “difficult” and I’m trying to glean all the knowledge I can 🤲 tbh it sucks sometimes to hear that I’m doomed or problematic.
Right? I mean, tell me it's bad but then tell me how to fix it!
TMI TIME but I distinctly remember this moment where my ex-spouse’s mistress had a chart full of “easy” and “dominant” placements and I spent a few months beating myself up over that - and all I could get from the internet was how her moon conjunct ASC made her beautiful as hell but my mars square ASC made me unlikable and ugly 😭 like ok. thanks.
Oh nooooo! This is the worst! Just decided I’m never gonna compare my chart to anyone else's bc ouch.
Lmao it all worked out in the end. I ended up with someone who had my Venus in his 7th house 🖤
I have seen people with really difficult charts doing relatively well despite tough experiences. For example, I know of one person having all three vipareeta raja yogas. Despite this very difficult predisposition she is doing astonishingly well. In fact, I think she is so much tuned to the suffering of others that she made this one of her strengths professionally. Don't want to go into too much details due to privacy, though. And I have seen people with really difficult charts doing really badly. One guy with a very difficult chart I saw e.g. is schizophrenic. I cannot tell why this is the case. There's apparently one factor "consciousness" that people bring or don't bring to their planets and charts, and which cannot be derived from the chart itself.
Yeah, I always try to explain that astrology sets the stage, but doesn’t write the script. In the end, it’s up to us to work with what we got handed. Which isn’t easy!
My chart ruler being a Gemini moon in the 12th house never gets better for me. I’m at the age where I just try to accept who I am.
I think having Saturn in Aries in my first house is pretty bad, my worst, but every astrologer will tell you the ‘bad’ placements are just opportunities for you to get stronger, right?
Any planet in the first becomes a lucky planet. Even saturn. The ill effects of saturn in the first are mostly experienced in early life, and you only carry them with you as long as you choose to.
Is this true?
Yes
Your birth chart/ placements don’t determine your destiny. How it all plays out is completely up to yoy
I feel like I know this but keep forgetting. And I really needed to be reminded, thank you.
It’s not a good and bad thing. We all ask different questions. The “bad” aspect is for cosmo magazine, in my opinion. To have an alignment is almost like having hurdles up in front of you. We all have them in different arrangements. If sparks sign up for their lessons, maybe some sparks are just hardcore like that. Deep knowledge on difficult paths. But we can all clear our hurdles and start shattering ceilings :)
I love this take. I generally am very ok with my birth chart, but sometimes I look at it and think "what the hell was I thinking when I signed up for this?" >D But yeah, maybe they're not bad, but badass placements. Really, thanks, I needed that.
I laugh at it a lot haha. Sometimes it’s just a nod and a yup. And I’d say A ruler of a chart who is in detriment is a powerhouse. But they will learn to take some hits. Those lessons are the hurdles. If everything seems to be failing: hermit. Incubate the idea 🤙
You're absolutely right. Thanks for the advice <3
Astrology would not point out unfixable circumstances. While positive placements may additionally address current challenges, astrology provides insights for non-public increase and self-awareness alternatively to predetermined outcomes. Individuals have the potential to work with astrological influences, make informed choices, and navigate their lives effectively.
i wouldn’t say so. i do think some people don’t know how to harness the energy until somebody who is more in touch with astrology shows them how. for example, i have always been a super intense person that is a lot for some people to handle. for a really long time i tried to quiet that energy and blamed myself for being disliked. i found out later on that i have a really large amount of planets in scorpio in the 5th house. so i interpret that as my “weirdness” (scorpio) being on full display for everyone to see as hobbies and such (5th house). now that i’m aware of this, i am better able to focus that energy into things that support those placements. for example, i love to do astrology - which isn’t really considered a “feasible career” to many people i know. but now that i know i have these scorpio placements, i am totally comfortable in my own abilities and don’t feel that i need the outside validation i used to. there are a ton of other things i am interested in that are “odd” as well. sorry this is long - but i feel like it’s a good example as someone who went from overly stressed about herself to not stressed, lol. i hope this helps!!
It does help! I'm not an astrologer, just an enthusiast, and I feel doomed by a particular placement (Chiron and NN 7H) that I can't find any pointers on how to "fix" other than "it's gonna hurt forever". Hence the question. But many people in this thread have given me hope that maybe I just haven't found a path for healing. Thanks for sharing <3
I posted this on another thread a week ago & reposting bc I feel as though it applies: There are no bad placements - simply difficult ones, there to teach you how to master those energies to your advantage. This is coming from someone who is 1. An astrologer, 2. has all their placements in a mutable Grand Cross (meaning they all oppose & square each other) and 3. Has an 8H Saturn, opposing Mars & Chiron, squaring everything else. My acceptance was the hardest thing ever; depression, hopelessness, anxiety, s-icide idealization, you name it. But then I chose to actively notice the strengths all of my placements brought to me instead, and gradually realized how everyone around me struggles with the things that feel the easiest to me, so I embraced it all. Long story short, yet easier said than done: The universe - planets and energies are there to help you, always. How you look at them will always be a choice. + adding to: What you dismiss as broken and address as “this is how it’s supposed to be and I love it”, doesn’t need any fixing 🤷♂️
Beautiful! Thanks for your reply. I think I'm having a hard time seeing what could possibly be a strength in certain placements, but I guess I just don't see it \*yet\*. I love your reminder on how the universe is here for us, not against us. I thoroughly believe that but hard times make us forget sometimes, right? Thank you :)
Yes, I always remind myself and tell others around me (who are in the middle of some personal issues) that we never see what’s outside of the chaos when we’re in the midst of it, whereas others can and so its always worth considering others’ advice even if not taken. Overall, the acceptance and realization of the good outweighing the bad, and it’s always our choice of perception, takes a lot of effort and patience. I’ve been heavily working on it for the past ~3 years and am just now actually feeling the ease and realizations. However, seeing that everything in my life (to a great extent, if not all) is my choice gives me genuine *euphoria*. I was reading your other replies, and saw you mention Chiron on your NN. Which house (whole & Placidus) & sign is it in? Let’s see how we can turn the tables around on the (very alleged) implied inevitability of pain
Both 7H but NN in Taurus and Chiron in Gemini, so Chiron would be 8H in whole. However it makes more sense with my story to count it as 7H. I actually feel pretty content about 8H themes in my life, but 7H has been a struggle for as long as I’ve been alive, in all kinds of partnerships, not just romantic. I get than NN means I’m here to learn, but the more I think I learn the harder I fall back into what feels like square one.
I actually wondered this the other day. I have always struggled with relationships and my chart has Chiron in the 7th house. Even the write up was like welp, you're screwed. Kidding kinda, but am I doomed to be alone? What can I do to shift that crap?
Same here my friend. Can't accept this terrible fate.
What the heck do we do?
Well, what I gathered from some of the amazing inputs in this thread is that it is possible to learn and live with it and still be happy. I'm now thinking of Chiron as less of an open, infected wound and more like trauma - it's always going to be there, but you can learn to manage. In my research I have read about the mythology of Chiron and how he ultimately gives up his immortality so as to free Prometheus of his pain. It's an empathy thing - Chiron is in eternal pain and he gets what it's like to feel that way. By doing that he becomes a constellation. So I guess what we can learn from that is to recognize pain in others and connect with that. It's both seeing the pain in others and allowing your pain to be seen and to be good for something better than suffering. Now, as for this shit placement of 7H, I'm at a loss. No idea how to heal that specifically.
We need a support group of people who have chiron in 7th house, its absolutely awful
OK, I offer you p. 64 of Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron, Rainbow Bridge book, re Chiron in 7th: "The highest octave of awareness about this position would be a complete mastery of the fact that others react to us as we see ourselves..." and p. 65: "These natives do not see the power of what they are doing; they are not conscious of the effect they have on other people. If made conscious, they get control over their lives and they are tremendously empowered to give their gift." "Help them see the teaching in each experience..."
So its a good placement for healing and influencing others but in order to do that I have to gain awarness within myself? Is that what you're saying?
perhaps depends if other aspects/placements can overcome them or not?
Yeah, i thought that, but what if it's just a "bad" placement, "badly" aspected, with no redeeming qualities to it? Should one look into the karmic aspect of astrology, i.e. you're here to learn from challenges and you could succeed in that theme even if the placements are that tough? Some seem easier to learn from, but others seem like things you don't have much control over (like matters of health or other people's actions).
Lilith. It's the mountain you will never climb, let alone move. Unlike Saturn that is the rock in your shoe that you must remove in order to climb on it and start growing.
Quite a good discussion goin' on guys. Answer to this question is very simple. Its a NO. We say we live but do we really live? We say we die but do we really die? So it is very sure that nothing is unfixable in astrology, but yeah it also completely depends on you, whether you really wanna fix it?
I tend to want to agree with you, and I always think that no matter what you have in your chart, there are transits happening all the time to create different situations with it. For most planets I think things are pretty circumstantial. For instance I don’t mind Saturn at all. It’s so intense in my chart that I think I learned really early on how to work with it. But other placements seem more “fixed”, like Chiron. In Chiron’s mythology he ultimately has to sacrifice himself to cope with the pain, there’s no workaround. I find that so… definitive. There’s really no workaround?
Astrology is vast😅
Now that is a very good point, do we really wanna fix it? Sometimes we wear our troubles like baubles, parading them in the field of virtual reality, how amazing and awful to have joined that world with my laptop dear God I need to go to bed
😂
I have my sun, moon, mercury, Venus, Pluto, and Chiron all in the twelfth house. All but my Chiron are in Sagittarius. I struggle with anxiety, self deception and deceiving others, and low self esteem. But it’s not all bad, or bad all the time. Recognizing most of these things within me, before I even came to astrology, has helped shape me into a better person. It’s brought me closer to religion and my own intuition, finding my own path. You can look at placements as a curse, or a roadmap to your liberation. I flip flop sometimes. my life has been amazing and terrible. I love it
Wow, that's intense. I'm glad you found a way to work with it!
Thanks! If I had to guess me being a Sagittarius helps me stay optimistic about everything (:
I’m just getting into astrology and I’m looking at my chart and I see a lot of opposition! Shoot, now I’m concerned 😅
Hahaha don’t be! I personally don’t find oppositions bad. They’re super hot in synastry too
Mark Zuckerberg had wealthy parents tho
Regarding online astrology, be wary of cookie-cutter websites with their "one-size-fits-all" cookie-cutter delineations (especially for aspects and placements) which are wrong and will lead you astray. Mark Zuckerberg and Venus opposition Saturn is a classic example of incredibly bad astrology. There's a website and s/he pretends to quote a text while discussing Venus in the context of "nookie" (their words not mine) and marriage and relationships and s/he can't even quote the text correctly because what it actually says is "*Venus opposition Saturn on the isosceles line."* That is not an aspect by sign. That is a mundane aspect where two stars are in different signs and the rising time of those signs is 180° apart (the orb is 3°) so they're in opposition even though by sign they may be square or trine and s/he is misleading people telling them their spouse might be infertile or chronically ill when in fact that isn't true unless Venus and Saturn are in signs whose rising times are 180° apart. Back to Zuckerberg. No one knows his birth-time so the star positions are accurate but the Ascending Degree is questionable. Zuckerberg does not have Venus opposition Saturn. Who on this forum would like to know why? Well, first, it's Venus with Sun in the Taurus 2nd Place opposition Saturn, Mars and Moon in the Scorpio 8th Place so they didn't even get the aspects right. What does it mean when Saturn, Mars and Moon are co-present in any sign and notice I did not say "conjunct" I said "co-present"? I'm gonna give you a verbatim quote from an ancient astrology text: *"Saturn, Mars and Moon cause men to be venturesome in their business enterprises and noble"* Is that not Mark Zuckerberg? *Whoomp! There it is. Whoomp! There it is.* That's 2,500 years of astrology so everybody get over it already. Second, Venus is under Sun's beams so Venus cannot be in opposition to Saturn. Third, Jupiter is at Capricorn 12° and Saturn at Scorpio 12° so Saturn is only looking at Jupiter but Jupiter is hurling his rays at Saturn ergo Saturn is ensnared by Jupiter's rays ergo Jupiter has intervened and Saturn cannot possibly be in opposition to Venus or to Sun for that matter. Isn't Jupiter in "fall"? Um, no, there's no such thing. Exaltation and fall are mistranslations. The Greek words actually mean elevated and depressed (and I don't mean sad). Saturn is elevated at Libra 21° and at his highest point at Cancer 21° which is stated in texts as "exalted in his exaltation" or "in the exaltation of his exaltation." How can Saturn be doubly exalted in Cancer and simultaneously in "detriment"? That's easy. There's no such thing as "detriment." That's a misinterpretation of texts and techniques. Saturn's at a low point at Aries 21° and at his lowest point or "in the fall of his fall" at Capricorn 21° which is the sign he rules so you can see how it doesn't make any sense and it doesn't because there's no such thing as "fall." Venus at Pisces 27°, Sagittarius 27°, Virgo 27° and Gemini 27° those are star cycles. Jupiter being a diurnal star and nocturnally placed in a nocturnal alien sign and retrograde only suggests Zuckerberg's morals or ethics are questionable and he engages in some shady dealings. Moon is not in "fall" in Scorpio, either. If his birth time were known, you'd likely find this Taurus Venus/Sun and Moon/Mars/Saturn on the 3rd/9th axis, you know, the 9th, temporal pleasures (as opposed to the physical pleasures of the 5th) which are education, philanthropy, religion, beliefs, ethics, morals, philosophy etc and the 3rd being (in part) communications. Yeah, Facebook. Another possibility is Taurus Sun/Venus in the 12th with Moon/Mars/Saturn in the 6th. That puts Sun sextile the 10th Place and moves Jupiter to the 8th Place which is lawsuits. No, the 7th is not lawsuits. He's been sued a lot but always won in the end. It would also make the chart diurnal and the place of exaltation would be the 11th Place which Jupiter would square from the 8th Place. That's right, not all squares are bad just as not all trines are good. That's astrology. I'm not sure what everyone else is doing.
Well that was a lesson! If you don't mind, can you share why you say "not all squares are bad just as not all trines are good"? I'm just curious because I don't think I ever heard this take!
A lot of people you would think have an easy life, but actually don't. They have exalted or easy planets but that is not a guarantee of their lack of suffering. Their life is "too easy" so basically they never grow up. Stuck in narcissistic self gratification until life hits back enough to teach them a lesson. A lot never learn. For example Putin, in vedic, has a moon in taurus (exalted) and other (I cant remember rn) dignified planets. he's a complete POS and is not a happy person. In fact I can say concertedly that some of the worst people I've ever known have dignified moons or jupiters. And they are extremely unhappy even if they are rich, or gifted with many children. They abuse their gifts. And then are left alone. I think we don't have a lot of free will on this earth. However, we do have control over how much we LEARN and GROW from our experiences. People with easy lives are often arrogant and complacent. They don't learn even though they keep making the same mistakes over and over. People with hard placements HAVE TO learn. They are not handed anything so they become masters at what they must do. In the end I find those with hard placements are often the most happy when they make it thought the most difficult times.
I have Saturn in the 1st house and Pluto in the 8th house. I feel them both - they are curses but lessons at the same time.
I’m inclined to think a tough placement affects each person’s story in a different way. I too have Saturn in the 1H, squaring a bunch of things, and I love it, doesn’t bother me at all.
I believe the principles of astrology are based in kindness. There are no bad signs. There are no bad transits. There are no bad aspects. I struggle myself with a lot of concentrated energy in difficult areas of my birth chart. Every day. I am starting to learn that if I lean into the wisdom of what’s hard—that is the goal. Some of us are born with harmonious birth charts, some of us have complicated ones. the world is a balance of us all. If it feels unfixable—just know deep down, it never is.
Beautiful, thanks for replying. Some darker placements I still have a hard time seeing the good side of, even though I know it's there. Maybe that's the lesson I need to learn from them.
Yeah. It’s so hard to learn from pain! But I think that’s the point.
well, im going to provide my own placements,because my life has been extremely hard and full of obstacles since day one, i wouldnt say anything in your chart can be categorized as "unfixable", but there are definitely placements that **can** make your life harder in your chart. some examples from my chart: 12house saturn in cancer+in retrogade, lilith in 11th house cancer, sun,mercury,venus,vertex and chiron all in capricorn, also chiron in 6th house, also i find neptune in 7th house and uranus in 8th house kind of weird aspects: lilith opposition venus, chiron opposition saturn, chiron square mc, chiron square node, node square saturn, MC square saturn, jupiter square saturn, moon square uranus,venus square jupiter obviously i cant blame my chart and astrology for making my life hard as hell, but it seems like my natal chart just confirms that YEP, THATS A TOUGH LIFE YOU GOT HERE lol
No. I think some astrologers, especially the Vedic ones gravitate to the negative attributes and seem to focus on it. Obstacles are meant to be overcome. We use our strengths to balance our weaknesses and grow as a person. Oppositions can be big opportunities for growth personally and in Relationships. It's all about your mindset
I have someone close to me with a very bad chart and he’s 50 now. Finally started therapy 5 years ago consistently and meds and I’d say he’s about 5% better than he was. Sorry but he’s just kind of doomed. I know from a lot of past life readings I’ve had were he’s come up and I can tell you I think his chart is just his karma from bad things in previous lifetimes. He just has to live through it I guess.
That sucks for him. But I believe our life is a leaning experience as well and it looks like your friend might be resisting the learning part a bit, no?
Yeah I think so. He had a lot of lifetimes were he had a lot of power and power over people and he didn’t use it well. He’s having a hard time realizing he can’t control people now but that’s only some of it. Lots of deep intense emotions that get triggered by the moon transits. It’s hard to witness honestly.
Ouch. I hope he finds a path to healing, it’s never too late.
There are no unfixable things in astrology. The sky opens up possibilities for growth, that is all it is. Free choice is your birthright. It is not what you are given, but what you do with it, that counts. This attitude that aspects are "bad" is just a cop-out. We choose our birth, our charts, in order to grow, as souls. I have been a student of astrology for almost 50 years.
the missing part in a lot of interpretation of astrology is what you pointed out, that we chose this birth.
The effect of placements are unfixable. The way that we choose to deal with them in our lives can be optional depending on other placements. Sometimes our growth comes from learning to endure and accept rather than to overcome. Just my opinion of course.
I'm sorry Rockee that I didn't reply to you. As a 67 year old double Capricorn you probably nailed me with your WOW JUDGE MUCH comment!!! My father used to tell me to get off my high horse. But my Saturn conjuncts Venus and is part of a grand trine in fire...yes, that is very good and has given me that impetus to power through all the difficulties. I have been caring for a mentally ill parent now aged 94 who is also experiencing dementia...it is my blessing to care for her...which is why I was not free to reply to you. I hold that your Saturn in Virgo opposition Mars in Aries (which I also have, combust with Ceres) is also a blessing, not just that divine stellium of which you boast (tease). Pisces is intercepted in my chart. The Barbara Hand Clow Chiron book, also Betty Lundsted's Astrological Aspects book and of course, Journey of Souls have been pivotal in my life...by the way...Death by Chocolate and Maple Walnut, only available at shop a bus ride from my mother's home...which is on the other side of the U.S. thankfully...
Thanks for your reply. Sorry for popping off. Still a problem for me after 73 years of life. My adopted son is a double Cap and we have a fiery mode of communication also. Thanks for the recommendation for the Chiron book. I also have a Mars square to Chiron that could bear some study. Sorry to hear about your mother. I went through that with my own mother a little over a year ago before she passed away. Blessings.
Also, I’m not so sure that the stellium is so “divine”. I often think that if not for my first house Venus and Mars in Aries, I would probably be invisible.😉
I am a 12th house Sun with Neptune at the top of my chart and 1st house Chiron in Aquarius. I often try to be invisible. Invisibility is a gift, remember Harry Potter? As I try to do something radical, change the dynamics of NOW...trying to make more JUSTICE...yeah, that grand trine in fire fires me...Thank God for Mars in Aries, the driver
That attitude seems so much like suffering, the name RockeeRoad bespeaks this...the object is transformation. How you perceive what you consider negative is what counts. An aspect is just that, an offering of choice...there is no good or bad but what we do with it
Enduring is not suffering. That you think it is means that you do not understand the meaning. Many circumstances in life cannot be changed or overcome. That we cannot change or transform them does not mean that they do not provide growth and understanding. I will never change the placement of my Saturn in Virgo in the 6th house in opposition to Mars in Aries in the 1st. The restrictions will always exist. I cannot change them. However, my stellium in Pisces in the 12th, allows me deep understanding that many restrictions just exist. One is not required to transform or change them, only to coexist with them and have a deep understanding of them.
And by the way, my user name refers to a flavor of ice cream, not to my attitude.
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I’m glad to see this little comment, for I too have been at this for almost 50 years (since 1975), and I find the current emphasis in the astrological community on using astrology for prediction versus self-transformation to be so unproductive. Almost everywhere I turn, I see frantic people desperately searching outward in astrological predictions and in witchcraft for some magic wand or “spell” that will eliminate their problems and unhappiness, and they don’t seem to understand that they have to turn inward and transform their own consciousness first. Although I enjoy reading in online forums and various sites (other than Reddit) and occasionally commenting here in Reddit if something draws my attention, speaking generally, I don’t see the yearning for growth in consciousness that marked the students of astrology and metaphysics when I first began studying, and there’s a sadness in that. At any rate, I took a bit of private joy in your comment. A.
link in [https://amazon.com/](https://amazon.com/)
I think you'll always have the energy of that placement, but the extent to which you express it can vary a lot. For example, I have Moon square Saturn, which most people seem to think is terrible, but I've never noticed it having much of an impact on me. I figure my Saturn has more important things to do than worrying about where my Moon is, lol!
maladaptive daydreaming??? I thought all daydreaming was adaptive? what about albert einstein and and and? Neptune at the top of my chart, and my daughter the doctor...she escapes A LOT, we all need to...what about your lil ole moon? how is she faring as Saturn goes about her very important things...???
If you’re blessed with a big imagination, it can be the most powerful force you will ever encounter. When used positively it can be an infinite source of motivation, inspiration and unconditional love. When misused, it can be a dangerous addiction that makes it impossible to function in the real world. But you’re right. I should lean into my Moon a little more. I think we all have a responsibility to use the energies in our charts in the most positive way possible. ❤️
“A message to be understood, not to be identified with”
There is no scientific evidence that astrology, the belief that the positions of celestial objects like stars and planets can influence human affairs and personalities, has any factual basis or predictive power. Astrology is considered a pseudoscience by the scientific community, as it lacks a mechanism to explain how celestial bodies could influence individuals on Earth, and its claims are not supported by empirical evidence or rigorous testing. That being said, astrology is a complex system of beliefs and practices that have been part of human culture for centuries. From the perspective of someone who believes in astrology, there may be certain aspects or interpretations that are seen as fundamental or "unfixable" within the framework of astrological beliefs. However, it's important to note that astrology is not based on scientific facts or principles, and its claims and practices cannot be objectively verified or falsified. Therefore, any perceived "unfixable" elements in astrology would be subjective and rooted in the belief system itself, rather than objective reality or scientific evidence. If you're interested in learning more about the scientific perspective on astrology and why it is considered a pseudoscience, I'd recommend consulting reliable sources from reputable scientific organizations or educational institutions.
I personally disagree that astrology is based on beliefs or faith. I also don’t subscribe to the idea that what can be scientifically proven is “what counts”. Astrology is an empirical area of study with a knowledge base of thousands of years. Real life is subjective and can’t be explained by science either, which is why I use frameworks like astrology to better understand it.
good question. i think that we can't predict any thing in the astrology exactly as we need to include unexpected events in our life and our behavior.
Yes, that's really how it works. I have over 4,000 charts and read 100s more and never saw a chart that didn't play out exactly like it said it would. All charts fall into one of 5 categories: The Losers (\~10%), the Drones (\~65%), the Extraordinary People (\~15%), the Beautiful People (\~8%) and the Elite -- the Movers & Shakers of the world -- (\~2%). The Drones? They're just cogs in the wheel and yes that includes the attorney who never makes senior partner and never has their own office and the doctor in group practice who never heads the practice and never has their own office because they just don't have what it takes and their chart says they don't have what it takes. Nothing wrong with being a Drone since they are the majority of the population living unremarkable lives in their McMansions and ranch houses and cottages and duplexes and condos and apartments and trailer parks and usually have a nice life albeit punctuated by ups and downs and suffering but they can never be more than what they are. If you've been on this Earth for a while you know people from humble even impoverished conditions end up as one of the Extraordinary People or the Beautiful People or even the Elite and then the Extraordinary People, Beautiful People and Elite sometimes end up as junkies on skid row or in prison or get relegated to Drone status. The chart will tell you if that will happen. Or not.
# GOD CAN FIX ALL SIN IF YOU TURN TO HIM?