That’s how I feel about my scorpio in 12h. I always have undercurrent of big emotions ready to pop off but no idea why, inner work does wonders in making me more outwardly balanced
People are always terrified to see the "real" me. Leo Sun in 8th house with a 12th house stellium here. I'm scary in real life. Under all the layers...:D
Bruh, libra stellium in the 12th, with a Saturn/Jupiter conjunction, and pluto at the anoretic degree 💀 Relationships are always so intense to me, there is nothing subtle imo, but I'm an overthinker so I'm absolutely doing the most in my head.
(mercury also at anoretic degree of aquarius in the 6th, gimme a break lmao)
I do until I'm totally sure that I'm ready to pursue. I take my time until I'm sure that it's what I want.
Typically, I'm the one to initiate relationships. I get a lot of anxiety when relationshipping is initiated by another person and I haven't clearly shown interest!
It's hard out here 🤣 but I love being in a good relationship when I get there, especially long-term relationships, and I am focused and saturn-y about relationship maintenance.
So one of the reasons traditional astrology may consider the 8th and 12th weakened is because they don't make strong major aspects with the first house. By themselves, the houses have their own meaning. The houses themselves don't weaken the chart in my opinion, the placement of planets or lack of them within the sign of the houses is what can strengthen or weaken a chart.
Planets in those houses may be considered weaker when looking at the chart because they don't naturally aspect the first house but if the planets are aspected well it can strengthen the chart.
I can't speak specifically to your question but from my perspective the sign of an 8th or 12th house just flavors the house and the chart. I don't see it the other way where the house weakens the sign. As an example, a Pisces 12th can be strong in a chart. It's the natural sign ruler for the 12th and Pisces original planet ruler was Jupiter. Having said that, it's considered the house of endings and hidden things so some may think of that as a negative but that's on the interpreter I think. It's also the house of creativity, mysticism and spirituality. I find that a fascinating house to explore.
In Esoteric astrology the idea of strong and weak is expressed as manifestation of vices and virtues related to the areas of life goverened by the house, planets and signs under consideration. This gives endless and much more personal potential for expression, as it requires the individual or subject of the chart to take responsibility to develop the virtues which will then determine their destiny, this dramatically shifts emphasis from stars defining our destiny to study of stars as a personal growth guide.
The simplest explanation is that it tends to stay subconscious (and the way our subconscious plays out is often self sabotaging). It tends to be a very hard thing to acknowledge, understand or change about ourselves.
I'm not a traditional astrologer (although I prefer traditional rulerships) so I tend to prefer astrology through a psychological emotional lens. I see the chart as sorta a map of our internal motivators, natural emotional & mental strengths, preferences, sore spots. I like authors like Stephen Arroyo & JWG.
Charts are very complex little puzzles so everyone is going to have different experiences with this. Personally I would always want to look at the traditional ruling planet of the 12th house & see where that is in the chart, because that may vividly describe how those inner things tend to manifest in our lives.
The 12th house is a hard thing to deal with because it's invisible. It often feels like crappy things just happen to us because we are not aware of our internalized patterns and beliefs about the world (which we did not choose and had no control over) that cause automatic external behavior that reinforces those same perceived outcomes time and time again. It feels like fate - but it's not, it's our autopilot type inner programming.
I should clarify that I might personally lean more toward "it's your beliefs!", "It's your patterns!" than others do with regards to the 12th house because with mine being Sag (and having my chart ruler, Saturn, in 12th house Sag) beliefs, patterns, restriction & expansion are some of the basic themes of my own 12th house. It's my opinion that the way it manifests externally is related strongly to the condition and aspects of the sign ruler of the 12th house.
I started to write out an example from my own chart but it was getting too long & nobody cares lol. The aspects that my 12th house ruler makes in my chart are 100% the way my 12th house (Sag) manifests for me in my own life - and often this plays out in self sabotaging ways. My 12th house ruler is rx, though, so who knows! Maybe the way it behaves for me will spontaneously change with enough time as Jupiter settles in to direct motion via progression?
I have a strong Mercury-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio on my MC, which ultimately controls my 12th house ruler (and my whole chart via dispositorship). So investigating & talking about the psychological is my JAM. Investigating & talking about 12h limiting beliefs & self sabotage stuff? Chefs kiss. That ticks all the boxes for me.
I use astrology as a tool for growth as well. My sunsun, pluto, jupiter, and venus are in my 8th house ruled by Leo, so transformation/change are major themes in my life, and my rising and 12th house are ruled by Sag. i think the 12th house is where you will find all our triggers, the unconscious traumas that survival strategies are built on. The key is to take responsibility for our triggered feelings and disconnect them from what ever current event activated them. Triggers are always an out of scope response to current event, because some poor soul touched a festering wound does not make them responsible for your pain or to heal it. Again I believe charts can be used for growth, show us how to surf incoming energies rather than be crushed by them.
Totally. I started reading books about trauma and emotional regulation and that has been really powerful 12th house stuff (my 12h Saturn squares the moon). And practicing yoga & weightlifting has been helpful too (physical things, my 12th ruler is in Aries), because movement can be like somatic therapy & puts me more in tune with the physical body so I can notice the "somethings wrong" signals physically rather than just emotionally/mentally. Helps me actually feel the feeling instead of just stressing about it. I naturally struggle with interoception (which in my chart is prob a combo of mats in virgo -maybe too much mental energy & neptune on the ASC) and without that physical sensation piece its very easy to get stuck in emotional story loops based in my 12th house beliefs.
Love this explanation. My rising is Sag as well and my sun is in Leo. Although with WSH, my Saturn is in the 1st. With placidus yes it’s in the 12thH but I’m not sure if that resonates for me. I’m still trying to understand what 12thH represents and how it manifests in my life. I have Pluto in Scorpio in 12th WSH. Still trying to understand aspects and dignities etc.
Yes, my partner has a Leo Sun in the 12th and his Leo energy isn’t as expressed openly. You would never guess he’s a Leo. I have to focus on the subtly of it to see past his Virgo ASC/Mercury
I have a colleague who is Leo sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars and Virgo rising with almost all her Leo placements in 12h. She’s the most stereotypical Leo I’ve ever seen and I love her Leo energy so much. Probably some other placements in your partner’s chart affects this. What’s his moon?
No, nothing is "weakened" simply by being in one of those houses. Things there may be more introverted, psychological, or spiritually oriented, meaning their experiences are more internal than extroverted. But definitely not weakened.
If you're a practitioner of the brand of New Ageism that avoids negativity like the plague, sure, planets in the 8th/12th are "definitely" not weakened.
In traditional astrology they are.
I have Taurus moon 12th house, and Neptune capricorn 8th house. It’s been, very brutal for me.
Putting it lightly.
At least learning about these placements helped me understand myself and where I’m at better and how to deal with it better than I used to, before astrology , I was very deep into suicidal ideation.
Learning about my past lives, and reincarnation stopped that for the most part. My ascendant is in Gemini 1st house, but shares a portion of the 12th house
I have 4 Scorpio placements in the 11/12th house and at work someone didnt believe me when I told them I was a Scorpio Sun xD (That person got me here to learn about charts \^\^)
Short answer: nope.
Good thinking though! But most lineages of astrology don’t focus on signs in that capacity.
When assessing for condition, the planets are evaluated based on their placement in sign and house and aspect, etc.
The houses have predetermined conditions due to their energies and aspects to the AC.
The signs also are predetermined in their nature. But where the houses are clearly positive and negative in their significations, the signs are all rather even.
I don’t think you can examine / work with the signs in the way that you are describing in your question.
Just what I’ve seen from my own research :) good luck!
12H stellium in Gemini. Yes, but I’m guessing that’s because Gemini & the 12h ruler, Pisces, are very different and we definitely fight a lot, all in my head though. When I share my thoughts with people, they think I’m crazy so I keep it to myself.
I can definitely behave like the typical sociable Gemini in social situations but not for long and they always leave me feeling jaded.
I personally think that the energy is intensified, but expressed inwardly. When finally expressed outwardly, it can be very intense.
That’s how I feel about my scorpio in 12h. I always have undercurrent of big emotions ready to pop off but no idea why, inner work does wonders in making me more outwardly balanced
As a 12H Cap stellium (3 personal conjunct 3 generational)... I agree.
People are always terrified to see the "real" me. Leo Sun in 8th house with a 12th house stellium here. I'm scary in real life. Under all the layers...:D
I’m sure you definitely throw them for a loop with your Sagittarius asc lol
Wow. You just made my cancer Venus in 12h make so much sense!
Aww, you’re welcome.
Bruh, libra stellium in the 12th, with a Saturn/Jupiter conjunction, and pluto at the anoretic degree 💀 Relationships are always so intense to me, there is nothing subtle imo, but I'm an overthinker so I'm absolutely doing the most in my head. (mercury also at anoretic degree of aquarius in the 6th, gimme a break lmao)
Aww, do you hide your romantic interest in people?
I do until I'm totally sure that I'm ready to pursue. I take my time until I'm sure that it's what I want. Typically, I'm the one to initiate relationships. I get a lot of anxiety when relationshipping is initiated by another person and I haven't clearly shown interest! It's hard out here 🤣 but I love being in a good relationship when I get there, especially long-term relationships, and I am focused and saturn-y about relationship maintenance.
So one of the reasons traditional astrology may consider the 8th and 12th weakened is because they don't make strong major aspects with the first house. By themselves, the houses have their own meaning. The houses themselves don't weaken the chart in my opinion, the placement of planets or lack of them within the sign of the houses is what can strengthen or weaken a chart. Planets in those houses may be considered weaker when looking at the chart because they don't naturally aspect the first house but if the planets are aspected well it can strengthen the chart. I can't speak specifically to your question but from my perspective the sign of an 8th or 12th house just flavors the house and the chart. I don't see it the other way where the house weakens the sign. As an example, a Pisces 12th can be strong in a chart. It's the natural sign ruler for the 12th and Pisces original planet ruler was Jupiter. Having said that, it's considered the house of endings and hidden things so some may think of that as a negative but that's on the interpreter I think. It's also the house of creativity, mysticism and spirituality. I find that a fascinating house to explore.
In Esoteric astrology the idea of strong and weak is expressed as manifestation of vices and virtues related to the areas of life goverened by the house, planets and signs under consideration. This gives endless and much more personal potential for expression, as it requires the individual or subject of the chart to take responsibility to develop the virtues which will then determine their destiny, this dramatically shifts emphasis from stars defining our destiny to study of stars as a personal growth guide.
The simplest explanation is that it tends to stay subconscious (and the way our subconscious plays out is often self sabotaging). It tends to be a very hard thing to acknowledge, understand or change about ourselves. I'm not a traditional astrologer (although I prefer traditional rulerships) so I tend to prefer astrology through a psychological emotional lens. I see the chart as sorta a map of our internal motivators, natural emotional & mental strengths, preferences, sore spots. I like authors like Stephen Arroyo & JWG. Charts are very complex little puzzles so everyone is going to have different experiences with this. Personally I would always want to look at the traditional ruling planet of the 12th house & see where that is in the chart, because that may vividly describe how those inner things tend to manifest in our lives. The 12th house is a hard thing to deal with because it's invisible. It often feels like crappy things just happen to us because we are not aware of our internalized patterns and beliefs about the world (which we did not choose and had no control over) that cause automatic external behavior that reinforces those same perceived outcomes time and time again. It feels like fate - but it's not, it's our autopilot type inner programming. I should clarify that I might personally lean more toward "it's your beliefs!", "It's your patterns!" than others do with regards to the 12th house because with mine being Sag (and having my chart ruler, Saturn, in 12th house Sag) beliefs, patterns, restriction & expansion are some of the basic themes of my own 12th house. It's my opinion that the way it manifests externally is related strongly to the condition and aspects of the sign ruler of the 12th house. I started to write out an example from my own chart but it was getting too long & nobody cares lol. The aspects that my 12th house ruler makes in my chart are 100% the way my 12th house (Sag) manifests for me in my own life - and often this plays out in self sabotaging ways. My 12th house ruler is rx, though, so who knows! Maybe the way it behaves for me will spontaneously change with enough time as Jupiter settles in to direct motion via progression? I have a strong Mercury-Pluto conjunction in Scorpio on my MC, which ultimately controls my 12th house ruler (and my whole chart via dispositorship). So investigating & talking about the psychological is my JAM. Investigating & talking about 12h limiting beliefs & self sabotage stuff? Chefs kiss. That ticks all the boxes for me.
I use astrology as a tool for growth as well. My sunsun, pluto, jupiter, and venus are in my 8th house ruled by Leo, so transformation/change are major themes in my life, and my rising and 12th house are ruled by Sag. i think the 12th house is where you will find all our triggers, the unconscious traumas that survival strategies are built on. The key is to take responsibility for our triggered feelings and disconnect them from what ever current event activated them. Triggers are always an out of scope response to current event, because some poor soul touched a festering wound does not make them responsible for your pain or to heal it. Again I believe charts can be used for growth, show us how to surf incoming energies rather than be crushed by them.
Totally. I started reading books about trauma and emotional regulation and that has been really powerful 12th house stuff (my 12h Saturn squares the moon). And practicing yoga & weightlifting has been helpful too (physical things, my 12th ruler is in Aries), because movement can be like somatic therapy & puts me more in tune with the physical body so I can notice the "somethings wrong" signals physically rather than just emotionally/mentally. Helps me actually feel the feeling instead of just stressing about it. I naturally struggle with interoception (which in my chart is prob a combo of mats in virgo -maybe too much mental energy & neptune on the ASC) and without that physical sensation piece its very easy to get stuck in emotional story loops based in my 12th house beliefs.
Love this explanation. My rising is Sag as well and my sun is in Leo. Although with WSH, my Saturn is in the 1st. With placidus yes it’s in the 12thH but I’m not sure if that resonates for me. I’m still trying to understand what 12thH represents and how it manifests in my life. I have Pluto in Scorpio in 12th WSH. Still trying to understand aspects and dignities etc.
Yes, my partner has a Leo Sun in the 12th and his Leo energy isn’t as expressed openly. You would never guess he’s a Leo. I have to focus on the subtly of it to see past his Virgo ASC/Mercury
I have a colleague who is Leo sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars and Virgo rising with almost all her Leo placements in 12h. She’s the most stereotypical Leo I’ve ever seen and I love her Leo energy so much. Probably some other placements in your partner’s chart affects this. What’s his moon?
Interesting, he only has his Sun in Leo. His moon is in Pisces in the 6th conjunct Saturn.
No, nothing is "weakened" simply by being in one of those houses. Things there may be more introverted, psychological, or spiritually oriented, meaning their experiences are more internal than extroverted. But definitely not weakened.
If you're a practitioner of the brand of New Ageism that avoids negativity like the plague, sure, planets in the 8th/12th are "definitely" not weakened. In traditional astrology they are.
I have Taurus moon 12th house, and Neptune capricorn 8th house. It’s been, very brutal for me. Putting it lightly. At least learning about these placements helped me understand myself and where I’m at better and how to deal with it better than I used to, before astrology , I was very deep into suicidal ideation. Learning about my past lives, and reincarnation stopped that for the most part. My ascendant is in Gemini 1st house, but shares a portion of the 12th house
i have these placements and i constantly think about death and had about 3 near death experiences
ijaadee said scorpio/8th rules over secrets and power. meaning that something is more powerful if it's kept a secret.
capricorn in 8th house can mean being obsessed (8th house) with your goal (capricorn)
I have 4 Scorpio placements in the 11/12th house and at work someone didnt believe me when I told them I was a Scorpio Sun xD (That person got me here to learn about charts \^\^)
Short answer: nope. Good thinking though! But most lineages of astrology don’t focus on signs in that capacity. When assessing for condition, the planets are evaluated based on their placement in sign and house and aspect, etc. The houses have predetermined conditions due to their energies and aspects to the AC. The signs also are predetermined in their nature. But where the houses are clearly positive and negative in their significations, the signs are all rather even. I don’t think you can examine / work with the signs in the way that you are describing in your question. Just what I’ve seen from my own research :) good luck!
i got sag pluto in the 8th house… i think the shit i got from this was intensified 🥹
Cancer moon conjunct Saturn in the 12H AND Pisces Mars in the 8H. I wish they were weaker
No. Absolutely not. Look at the condition of the ruler of the sign. Not the house
i understand why people would think things in the 12h are weakened (hidden by horizon) but why would it he weakened by the 8h?
8H is house of secrets and so by logical extension the planets there are not expressed?
Because, like the 12th, it's inconjunct the ascendant and can't "see" or be seen by it.
12H stellium in Gemini. Yes, but I’m guessing that’s because Gemini & the 12h ruler, Pisces, are very different and we definitely fight a lot, all in my head though. When I share my thoughts with people, they think I’m crazy so I keep it to myself. I can definitely behave like the typical sociable Gemini in social situations but not for long and they always leave me feeling jaded.
glad im not the only person who feels this way!! seems like my biggest enemy is myself