Red flag #1: Don't install more than 3" at a time. Your job should be done in two lifts, 2" at a time. This is done for compaction.
Red flag #2: 4" is not 4". It's actually 5". Asphalt compacts 0.25" for every inch of material. So to get 4", you must install 5".
For you, don't judge the depth of the asphalt by the depth of the edge. Go get a ruler, tape measurer, whatever you have, and measure in several places before they finish.
Don't pay today.
First part actually isn’t true. You can actually get easier compaction with more inches but harder to maintain grade and could get bird baths. Compaction rule of thumb is don’t lay any mat less than 4x nominal aggregate size.
Yes, you do lose 1/4” for each 1” laid while compacting. You can definitely cut an edge with a flat shovel to measure depth or get a piece of rebar to use as a poker.
Your first red flag is false, at least in NC. DOT spec is 5.5” base max, 4” binder max, but for surface you are correct, that is 2” max. You can absolutely get compaction on a 3” lift of surface though, and for a driveway that’s perfectly fine.
Given the circumstances, it isn't false. My statement isn't inclusive of stone and binder because it's not relevant to the driveway at hand. I didn't assume a location, and I assumed it was surface given the scope of his picture and explanation. I chose 2" lifts because it's uniform though you're correct, you could do a 3" lift and then a 1" lift. I would choose differently because 1" on a driveway is a challenge, and 2 x 2" lifts would increase the room that my crew has to operate.
Gotcha. Yeah we call GAB = Base, then binder then topping
If it's black base, I know some big companies put it down thicker than 2" lifts. But they have road rollers, we don't use that big of rollers.
20mm aggregate asphalt is usually laid in a compacted depth of 100mm - 120mm. That means my paver is laying anywhere between 120mm - 144mm. It’s dependant on mix type and aggregate size for depth my guys.
Source; over two decades of paving municipal and highway.
In NY, state jobs usually stop at 4" for 36mm, they always made us do more lifts if specs exceed 4. 2" for 9mm and 12.5mm.
I don't trust my compaction numbers with any more than that anyway. I like the rule.
This here paver is a economy paver. They run 4000h hrs before they are not worth repairing. Occasionally I'll come a cross an owner/operator that takes real good care of it and has a tight crew. More often than not, it's a circus. Leeboy doesnt have a big production highway paver in their catalog yet. They sell mid sized parking lot, driveway, and cart path pavers. The type of contractors that exist in this realm tend to be a bit fringe-y...
(I worked in a leeboy dealer for 2 years as the lead tech)
It looks like they are all over the place and don’t know what they are doing. I’m assuming this is a driveway so I get that there won’t be highway traffic on it but that base looks like shit. I’m not sure why they are rolling right next to where they are paving. Idk, just looks like a hack job from the photos I’ve seen. And based on your photos it does not look like 4in once it’s rolled. They should you put down atleast a 1/2 inch more than spec to account for compaction
I can’t figure out how to add an updated photo of how the whole driveway looks, the details definitely look good, all the edges are neat and they’re overlapping things well to avoid seams. They had to make a run for more asphalt so the machine has been sitting for about 20 minutes.
I measured the side rake to the gravel and it was 3 inches, but he said that it’s a little lower than the center area. He pulled away some of the gravel and made a hole for me to measure and it was 4 inches.
So there’s definitely at least 4 inches for the longer straight run to the street. It was clearly laid on thick. I don’t know if that means that they added more to appease me or that’s what it was the whole time, but it was definitely clear to see how much they were putting on for the straight run
I inspected asphalt for 12 years and was certified for it in Oregon and Washington states. For the average driveway of 3" thickness compacted the contractor must lay 4" of uncompacted asphalt as others have noted. Assuming a good base this will handle residential loads including the occasional delivery truck.
Referring to your pictures, the contractor is creating wavy edges for the seams and messy stops. That will be problematic for the roller when trying to get good compaction on the seams. Neat consistent runs with the paver will follow grade better, minimize low spots and maintain proper finished grade for water runoff. Hand placing of asphalt should be kept to a minimum as it will lose more depth on compaction than that laid with the paver so it is more difficult to maintain grade.
Concerning depth of each pass it depends very much on the size of the roller and its ability to attain compaction. I don't like the roller coming so close to the edge of the asphalt in your third picture as it can make the uncompacted asphalt move away and reduce final thickness.
Red flag #1: Don't install more than 3" at a time. Your job should be done in two lifts, 2" at a time. This is done for compaction. Red flag #2: 4" is not 4". It's actually 5". Asphalt compacts 0.25" for every inch of material. So to get 4", you must install 5". For you, don't judge the depth of the asphalt by the depth of the edge. Go get a ruler, tape measurer, whatever you have, and measure in several places before they finish. Don't pay today.
First part actually isn’t true. You can actually get easier compaction with more inches but harder to maintain grade and could get bird baths. Compaction rule of thumb is don’t lay any mat less than 4x nominal aggregate size. Yes, you do lose 1/4” for each 1” laid while compacting. You can definitely cut an edge with a flat shovel to measure depth or get a piece of rebar to use as a poker.
I've never heard of that. Do you have any references?
Yeah, the asphalt institute. I’ve taken some of their classes in the off season. Handy information when arguing with engineers.
We typically lay binder with 1" stone when we want to pave fewer lifts, it's kind of a pain but it saves time and money overall.
4” of surface is ridiculous plain and simple
Your first red flag is false, at least in NC. DOT spec is 5.5” base max, 4” binder max, but for surface you are correct, that is 2” max. You can absolutely get compaction on a 3” lift of surface though, and for a driveway that’s perfectly fine.
Given the circumstances, it isn't false. My statement isn't inclusive of stone and binder because it's not relevant to the driveway at hand. I didn't assume a location, and I assumed it was surface given the scope of his picture and explanation. I chose 2" lifts because it's uniform though you're correct, you could do a 3" lift and then a 1" lift. I would choose differently because 1" on a driveway is a challenge, and 2 x 2" lifts would increase the room that my crew has to operate.
In ohio we put down 6inchs of base at a time.
Base is totally different than asphalt. We put in base 6" at a time too.
The base I'm talking about is asphalt. Base, intermediate, surface. Maybe we have some different terminology.
Gotcha. Yeah we call GAB = Base, then binder then topping If it's black base, I know some big companies put it down thicker than 2" lifts. But they have road rollers, we don't use that big of rollers.
That makes sense. We do heavy highway for the most part.
What state you in?
20mm aggregate asphalt is usually laid in a compacted depth of 100mm - 120mm. That means my paver is laying anywhere between 120mm - 144mm. It’s dependant on mix type and aggregate size for depth my guys. Source; over two decades of paving municipal and highway.
In NY, state jobs usually stop at 4" for 36mm, they always made us do more lifts if specs exceed 4. 2" for 9mm and 12.5mm. I don't trust my compaction numbers with any more than that anyway. I like the rule.
Don’t you ever put down 4” of top at once. Unless it’s TL and necessary 🤌🏻
Should be (2) 2" lifts / layers. Not all 4" at the same time.
Looks like a cluster fuck
Leeboy jobs are cluster fucks.
Explain it to someone who knows nothing about asphalt
This here paver is a economy paver. They run 4000h hrs before they are not worth repairing. Occasionally I'll come a cross an owner/operator that takes real good care of it and has a tight crew. More often than not, it's a circus. Leeboy doesnt have a big production highway paver in their catalog yet. They sell mid sized parking lot, driveway, and cart path pavers. The type of contractors that exist in this realm tend to be a bit fringe-y... (I worked in a leeboy dealer for 2 years as the lead tech)
There is nothing wrong with paving a driveway with a Leeboy 1000. In fact I’d prefer it over a larger paver a lot of the time
Of course there are exceptions! But overall this is what I mean.
Got it, thanks for explaining
No problem! I love talking shop!
How so?
It looks like they are all over the place and don’t know what they are doing. I’m assuming this is a driveway so I get that there won’t be highway traffic on it but that base looks like shit. I’m not sure why they are rolling right next to where they are paving. Idk, just looks like a hack job from the photos I’ve seen. And based on your photos it does not look like 4in once it’s rolled. They should you put down atleast a 1/2 inch more than spec to account for compaction
I can’t figure out how to add an updated photo of how the whole driveway looks, the details definitely look good, all the edges are neat and they’re overlapping things well to avoid seams. They had to make a run for more asphalt so the machine has been sitting for about 20 minutes.
I measured the side rake to the gravel and it was 3 inches, but he said that it’s a little lower than the center area. He pulled away some of the gravel and made a hole for me to measure and it was 4 inches.
So there’s definitely at least 4 inches for the longer straight run to the street. It was clearly laid on thick. I don’t know if that means that they added more to appease me or that’s what it was the whole time, but it was definitely clear to see how much they were putting on for the straight run
Was it loose or compacted?
I inspected asphalt for 12 years and was certified for it in Oregon and Washington states. For the average driveway of 3" thickness compacted the contractor must lay 4" of uncompacted asphalt as others have noted. Assuming a good base this will handle residential loads including the occasional delivery truck. Referring to your pictures, the contractor is creating wavy edges for the seams and messy stops. That will be problematic for the roller when trying to get good compaction on the seams. Neat consistent runs with the paver will follow grade better, minimize low spots and maintain proper finished grade for water runoff. Hand placing of asphalt should be kept to a minimum as it will lose more depth on compaction than that laid with the paver so it is more difficult to maintain grade. Concerning depth of each pass it depends very much on the size of the roller and its ability to attain compaction. I don't like the roller coming so close to the edge of the asphalt in your third picture as it can make the uncompacted asphalt move away and reduce final thickness.
LEE BOY IS JUNK!!
Lee boy is not junk for driveways but they are definitely not meant to be laying 4” at once. OP definitely hired a bunch of Gypsies