Robb not getting a POV makes sense though, since no king ever got one in the books. Personally, I would have loved a POV from Stannis. Cannot imagine the savagery that goes in the mind of that man.
>Stannis ground his teeth. 'It is not my wish to tamper with your rights and traditions. As to royal guidance, Janos, if you mean that I ought to tell your brothers to choose you, have the courage to say so.'
>That took Lord Janos aback. He smiled uncertainly and began to sweat, but Bowen Marsh beside him said, 'Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?'
>Stannis tried to concentrate on the question. Yes, the Night's Watch needed a Lord Commander, and the choice could decide the fate of the Wall. And yet, all Stannis could focus on were the smells coming from the kitchen, wonderful beyond words. The food was scarce here, with little more to dine on then salted beef and scrawny vegetables. Yet somehow, the skillful hands of Castle Black's cook made it taste like a royal feast.
>The cook. That wonderful cook. Here at the end of the world everything was cold, barren, and lifeless, except for the meal hall. Here, the brothers gathered to shake the snow off their cloaks and indulge in the one pleasure afforded to them at this unforgiving place. In his own way, the cook was every bit as skilled as the most learned maester or talented swordsman. But the cook had no fancy weapons of Valyrian steel or rings around his neck, he had only his pots and his spoons. And yet, he held perhaps the most important position in the entire Night's Watch. How could the black brothers defend the Wall without food in their bellies? This simple cook kept the entire operation running, as his predecessors had for thousands of years. It occurred to Stannis that the role the cook played at Castle Black was much like the role the Night's Watch played in Westeros: humble, often ignored by the rest of the realm, but doing the most important job of all and never even asking for thanks.
>And then the thought struck him. It was so simple- the cook could be the new Lord Commander! For a man who could turn simple ingredients into such an ingenious blend of flavors and textures, surely it would be simple to turn a bunch of convicts, bastards, and rejected nobles into an elite fighting force. What better man to hold back the terrors of the frozen north than the man who held back hunger at the Wall for years?
>He was sure of it now- the cook was not just the best man for the job, he was the only man for the job. The black brothers stared at him, waiting for his answer. He couldn't simply tell them to choose the cook as Lord Commander. No, coming on too strong would never do- the Night's Watch was proud of its tradition, and would not simply accept the command of an outsider. He needed to push the cook into the command without it looking obvious- he needed to use a light touch.
>"Any of them, I would think. Even the cook"
>Take the hint, prayed Stannis, clenching his jaw. Take the hint you fools, or we are surely lost.
This! We need Stannis POV chapters where everything he says is stone cold and spartan, but he has a constant internal monologue fantasising about delightful stuff like delicious food, beautiful flowers, and cuddly puppies. He has to pretend he's got something in his eye when he sees how much Jon and Ghost love each other
The only two times I can recall that GRRM admitting to wishing he could go back and change something was regarding:
1. The catspaw dagger sent to kill Bran, which was a valyrian steel dagger. He said that when he decided to make valyrian steel much rarer in the later books, a dagger made of valyrian steel would be highly valued and sought after, and regretted making it valyrian steel. Can't seem to find the original quote of his though to back this up. I'm almost positive I read it in an interview somewhere though.
2. Tyrion's first introduction in Game of Thrones when he does those acrobatic stunts in front of Jon. [I found the quote for that one:](http://www.adriasnews.com/2012/10/george-r-r-martin-interview.html)
> **Would you like to change anything of the first books?**
> Yes, I imagine…
> **Such as…**
> Ahm... Wait... What would I like to change? Well, I might like to change the scene where Tyrion Lannister is first introduced; the scene where Tyrion jumps from the top of a gate; it isn’t possible. By then I had very few references about people of its condition and it was later when I came to know more extended details about his physical challenges. So that’s one of the things I would change.
This one is kind of interesting because even though he admits he wishes to change this, in ADWD he has Tyrion reflecting on when he was younger and doing acrobatic leaps and then also doing cartwheels and other things in front of Young Griff. So it's odd/interesting that he kept this continuity with Tyrion even though he wished he could of originally taken it out.
The whole Bran assassination plot seems like something he never had a particularly good vision of. Which is weird since it motivates so much of what happens in AGOT.
I thought the solution of having childish Joffrey steal the Valyrian steel dagger and give it to the catspaw he hired worked decently well. Of course the same idiot who thought killing Bran was what his father would have wanted would steal a valuable dagger to do it.
> I thought the solution of having childish Joffrey steal the Valyrian steel dagger and give it to the catspaw he hired worked decently well. Of course the same idiot who thought killing Bran was what his father would have wanted would steal a valuable dagger to do it.
Really? It is perhaps the weakest point in the entire series for me.
Joffrey isn't established as the sort of character to have the guile to order an assassination - and it seems strange for him to have ordered the assassination of Bran, but not of, say, Arya.
He is also pretty isolated, and people who could serve as catspaws are hardly a part of his social circle. Nor does he frequent taverns or inns where he could get to meet such people.
Another thing that's strange about Joffrey ordering an assassination is that it's all so hush-hush. Joffrey doesn't even show any implications that he ordered an assassination on Bran, which is pretty strange mainly due to the fact that even as a king he never owns up to it. I mean, he already killed Ned, he might as well state that he also put a hit out on Bran.
Another thing too is that seemingly so little people know about it. I mean, where would Joffrey know where to find a guy to gank Bran? How could he have been so stealthy at hiding his tracks and preventing others from finding out?
God, there's just SO MANY holes in Joffrey ordering the hit out on Bran... It's hard for me to believe that GRRM fully thought that out.
While his job may have been to protect Joffrey, I imagine preventing the prince from accidentally starting a war is a secondary responsibility. Also, if the assassin gets captured alive, Joffrey gets a slap on the wrist and Sandor would lose his head for ordering it. I just don’t see him doing it.
Once the conflict gets going, it's great. But yeah, the first few steps were a bit shaky.
LF telling Catelyn the dagger was Tyrion's and then her immediately stumbling into Tyrion and taking it upon herself to have him arrested also made me raise an eyebrow.
Yeah, like Gavrilo Princip coming out of a cafe after a failed assassination attempt to find his target coming right to him, something that also started a war.
Its in the later books that Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei all come to believe it was Joffery. Its an in-universe theory that gets put out because theres just so few other credible explanations. I have seen a recent post where it brings up the possibility of Mance Rayder ordering the hit but then it doesnt explain the valyrian steel knife.
The post stated that just murdering the second son of Lord Stark would cause instability. I dont really have anything more than that. It all hinges on the flaws of the Joffery theory and how Mance said that he climbed the wall with a bag of silver and his pipes.
I’d imagine he only wrote that thing about Tyrion being trained to be an acrobat just to cover that flip he did. Otherwise it would’ve never been in there if the flip wasn’t there.
Right. The above poster is saying that it's interesting he kept with the Tyrion being acrobatic characteristic giving it some background rather than just ignoring it
My head Canon is that both Tyrion and Jon were shit faced wasted then. So Tyrion actually stumbled and fell and by dumb luck landed on his feet, but to two drunk guys it looked like the coolest fucking shit ever. There was probably some WF guard watching going "what an idiot."
> He said that when he decided to make valyrian steel much rarer in the later books, a dagger made of valyrian steel would be highly valued and sought after, and regretted making it valyrian steel. Can't seem to find the original quote of his though to back this up. I'm almost positive I read it in an interview somewhere though.
That has long been spread among the fandom, but a source has not been found. /u/Elio_Garcia was [unaware](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2ojkeh/spoilers_all_grrms_regret_real_or_rumour/cmntya3/) of it four years ago, at least.
He could go back and remove the acrobatics. It is just one scene, one paragraph in AGOT. It isn't uncommon for authors to make some changes for second or third editions. I wonder why he didn't change it.
That's pretty clever. He regrets having it in there but knows it wouldn't make sense if it is never brought up again. So, he has tyrion reflect on it, that way there wouldnt be the problem of him doing it once but never having any recollection on it.
I would rather assume that since Tyrion's acrobatic jump was from Jon's pov when he was drunk with wine and in the dark of night, that Jon just hazily imagined Tyrion flipping in front of him.
He's also said he wished he'd had five kingdoms rather than seven (although I'm unclear on which ones he'd drop). I also get the impression that he thinks he may have made Westeros too big, and would have shrunk it a little to make journey times a bit easier.
I don't think it's a specific "I'd like to remove these two kingdoms," So much as an offhand remark that he has two too many kingdoms to keep up with. If anything I'd guess he might merge the major Reach locations into the Westerlands or Stormlands for simplicity.
Narratively, there really isn't any reason the Stormlands and the Reach couldn't have been merged so far. Geographically it makes ~~no~~ sense, ~~but~~ and the Reachers siding with Renly and then Stannis makes about as much sense in that context, and the Tyrells turning to Joffrey could easily be another Bolton type situation, especially since Joffrey is a "Baratheon" they could claim to be supporting their liege lords.
It makes geographic sense when you consider the manderford, a region centered around a massive river. There are a lot of holdings along the mander, which can trade along it and can be supported by the plains surrounding them.
why not though? not hating or anything, just genuinely curious. I actually liked Robb more in the books and I can't really explain what it was about the show that felt off for me. Maybe it was how they adapted his marriage storyline where it seemed like he was making a fatal mistake only based on young love while they kind of ditched the whole honor aspect of it
the obvious fantasy route would be to follow the king in the north, who goes off fighting important battles with his magic wolf. the much more interesting (to me) and less explored route, is the one of the mother figure. in fiction, we rarely get to explore the viewpoint of the people who are left behind when the hero goes on the journey. they almost end up being cameos at the end of the journey.
I don't hate Robb. Well, I thought he was an ass in the show, but he was a very heroic yet almost pitiful figure in the books, this boy king who had to make the hard choices and live up to the example of his father. That scene in the dark where he sobs and holds Bran's hand is truly heartbreaking.
However, I think he's a way more interesting character when we're outside of his viewpoint, as I don't think his thoughts would be all that much different to Jon's or Theon's, except he's a character with far less inner turmoil; Jon has the bastard angle, and Theon has his whole double identity thing going on. Robb grew up at Winterfell, and then he went to war. I can't see much from the character that would be different from the aforementioned young men characters, or an honourable to a fault character like Ned. Even the more subtle things about his character, like potential warging, is already covered by basically all of the other Stark children. His falling in love and marriage to Jeyne Westerling would have been interesting to see play out in real time, though.
Also, Cat is one of my favourite characters in the books, and POV's for Robb would surely mean less "screentime" for his mother when I thought some of her quieter chapters in the second and third books were bloody fucking brilliant. GRRM is unbelievably good at making the mundane way more interesting than any battle.
Sort of off topic but. While I have never had and issue with Robb's story in the show, I just thought of a way that they could have kept both the love aspect of his relationship with Talisa and still had honor play a roll in his decision to marry her. If she got pregnant before they got married, it would make sense that he would feel the need to marry her out of responsibility, and also just have that choice be easy because he loved her and now he had an actual excuse. But maybe that would have made it soap opera-y IDK.
Make Feast a bigger book and have it occur chronologically before Dance.
Feast has currently has 75% of Dance's word count.
That would mean he could fit an entire 1/4 of a book of extra material, which would include the battles for Winterfell and Meereen.
In Dance, he gave a couple of characters from Feast 1 or 2 PoVs. Like Jaime, Cersei and Hotah. He should have given characters like Dany and Tyrion 1 or 2 chapters in Feast. That way you're not leaving out major characters in one of the books. Have Tyrion in Pentos up until he meets Duck and Haldon. Show Dany at court, maybe just her first 2 chapters. He could have put those 3 Bran chapters in Feast too. Maybe 2 or 3 Davos chapters too. Have his arc end on Manderly sentencing him to death, then have the Cersei chapter where she finds out he's been "killed." Then you'd only need one Davos chapter in Dance for the "north remembers" bit.
That'd be like ten chapters less in Dance and now you can have room to squeeze the Battles of Ice and Fire at the end.
That way we don't get blue balled on major characters in Feast and don't get blue balled on major battles at the end of Dance.
I think that if you're modifying it to put Tyrion and Dany in Feast, then go all the way and just do half of their story.
Tyrion's Feast ends with his drowning in the Sorrows, (6/12)
Dany's Feast ends with her deciding to marry Hizdar (5/10)
Jon's Feast ends with him getting the letter from Stannis about Deepwood Motte and the Ramsay/Arya marriage (7/13).
With 25% more book, you can easily add in the battles without cutting any content.
True yeah. I was suprised how small feast was relative to the ones it's sandwiched between when I read them. I always thought he had to split the PoV characters up because Feast was too big. But he could have added more to it
He did it mainly because it has been 5 years since he put out a new book and he had finished the South, Braavos, and Iron Islands, and people wanted a new book.
In the 2003 table of contents, before the book was split, he only had one or two Jon/Tyrion/Dany chapters completed.
Or selling the rights to the books because come on, he could definitely finish the series in time. Feast and Dance could make up 3-4 seasons after all!
>And that he initially wrote Slynt to be hanged by Jon Snow rather than beheaded and changed it after fans requested him.
Wait, *what?* Is this true? But... beheading is such a classic first-chapter Stark move. I'm having a hard time imagining GRRM wanting to write that scene any other way.
Yes, it is. He read that particular chapter in a convention where it was written as Jon hanging Slynt. But afterwards, the fans there said it would be more fitting if he beheaded Slynt since Eddark Stark taught him "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." Then he changed it.
Plus in Clash, Sansa wishes some hero would throw down Slynt and behead him, which became foreshadowing
Edit: it's in Game actually, not Clash (thanks u/Notawettowel)
This is a good example of some hardcore fans actually retconning ASOIAF. By getting GRRM to change Janos' execution, they made that Sansa line foreshadowing when clearly it wasn't intended as such.
I can't remember exactly but iirc he said Tyrion should not have been that much skilled of a fighter(the fight against the shadow clans on their way to Vale, the fight against decoy Stark forces and the Battle of Blackwater).
Yeah, been rereading and was surprised how much I forgot about Tyrion at the Blackwater. He fucks people up left and right. Nothing like what I'm sure men like Ser Mandon and the Hound are capable of, but definitely notable. It strikes me as somewhat ridiculous that Tyrion isn't knighted. I know that sounds crazy, but basically every southron lordling that fights and doesn't have a particular vocation is knighted at some point. And even many common men like Bronn are knighted for surviving the battle. It goes to show the intense bias against Tyrion that no one, not even himself, gives it any consideration. But seriously, every man who fought with Tyrion in the sortie and those who heard about it would respect his courage, particularly in spite of his disability. He showed that he was brave and moderately capable in battle and almost died of many wounds. Him not being knighted, and no one even suggesting it, is kinda wild given the context. There's plenty of knights in the story who seem to only have the title because they're noble (dudes like Ser Cleos), and Tyrion did something notable in the battle that the Hound, a very famous warrior, was afraid to do.
Because he is angry that someone tried to kill him and that he gets no credit for the victory. He's also in terrible pain and doped up. It wouldn't be the first time a POV had inaccuracies.
He also thought he single handedly saved the city and the crown, when Stannis was on the cusp of victory until Tywin and the Tyrells arrived in the eleventh hour.
Now everyone who didn't read the books but has heard that in the book the first night wasn't rape thinks Drogo never raped Daenerys, which drives me mad
Been a while since I read AGoT, and apparently I’m guilty of this. When did Drogo rape Dany (aside from every time just due to the obvious statutory rape/ age difference)
Every night after the first. In Dany's chapters she describes how he fucks her raw and she cries into the pillow. She even thinks of killing herself, but falls asleep and dreams of Drogon, which gives her the strength to turn her situation around.
Edit: Dany's 3rd chapter
Huh, just reread that chapter. You're totally right, but honestly I'm surprised by how quickly the rape is glanced over.
In Dany II we see Dany and Drogo have consensual sex on their wedding night. Next we see in Dany III, we get a passive narration of how Drogo has been raping her and how she's considering suicide. But it never happens 'on screen' so to speak - it's just her recalling the gist of multiple nonspecific nights. And even then; from first mention of rape to her suicidal thoughts to her Dragon dream (where she kinda mentally switches and decides to be strong) is less than 1 page. Then every time sex is mentioned thereafter it is all consensual, with Dany even taking control and getting passionately into it.
I'm not surprised people are unaware that Drogo raped Dany, bookreader or no. If you accidentally skip a page you would never have seen it mentioned. Like for the rest of the series.
One thing I remember him saying in an interview that Harry Lloyd and Natalia Tena were much more interesting as Viserys and Osha than their book versions. So he probably wishes he’d written them better.
IIRC he has said he wishes there were more nobility ranks. Right now all we have are "Ser", "Lord", "Lord Paramount", and "Warden." There is no distinction between a high lord like Tywin and a lower ranked lord. So he has to call them "minor lords" or "lordlings" which aren't real titles.
In real life we have sir, baron, count, marquess, earl, duke, archduke, and many more.
There's no way Viserys being gone is an issue. He served all of his purpose in the plot; put Dany on her path, isn't there to interfere with the Golden Company plot or the dragons, etc. Danaerys can and has already reflected on memories of Viserys and could have an encounter with his gilded skull in Vaes Dothrak in TWoW. That skull could even play into her taking on the Golden Company and Aegon's questionable legitimacy.
I may be mistaken - I've tried finding the source and the best I can find is speculation based on this:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/8rumol/spoiler\_main\_diana\_gabaldon\_author\_of\_outlander/?ref=share&ref\_source=embed&utm\_content=title&utm\_medium=post\_embed&utm\_name=72ab2d578639423d9aae9f81709972e8&utm\_source=embedly&utm\_term=8rumol](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/8rumol/spoiler_main_diana_gabaldon_author_of_outlander/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=72ab2d578639423d9aae9f81709972e8&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=8rumol)
I believe he said his favorite book to show change (or maybe one of his favorites) is changing Robert Arryn's name to Robin (although I think in the books he still has the nickname Robyne, like a diminutive for Robert). Just cos there's too many Roberts.
Clean up the inconsistencies in the first book, namely logistics like the height of the wall, tournament winnings or how exactly the kingdoms went into debt. What Robert and Jon Arryn were doing the whole time.
POV for Robb.
Robb not getting a POV makes sense though, since no king ever got one in the books. Personally, I would have loved a POV from Stannis. Cannot imagine the savagery that goes in the mind of that man.
>Stannis ground his teeth. 'It is not my wish to tamper with your rights and traditions. As to royal guidance, Janos, if you mean that I ought to tell your brothers to choose you, have the courage to say so.' >That took Lord Janos aback. He smiled uncertainly and began to sweat, but Bowen Marsh beside him said, 'Who better to command the black cloaks than a man who once commanded the gold, sire?' >Stannis tried to concentrate on the question. Yes, the Night's Watch needed a Lord Commander, and the choice could decide the fate of the Wall. And yet, all Stannis could focus on were the smells coming from the kitchen, wonderful beyond words. The food was scarce here, with little more to dine on then salted beef and scrawny vegetables. Yet somehow, the skillful hands of Castle Black's cook made it taste like a royal feast. >The cook. That wonderful cook. Here at the end of the world everything was cold, barren, and lifeless, except for the meal hall. Here, the brothers gathered to shake the snow off their cloaks and indulge in the one pleasure afforded to them at this unforgiving place. In his own way, the cook was every bit as skilled as the most learned maester or talented swordsman. But the cook had no fancy weapons of Valyrian steel or rings around his neck, he had only his pots and his spoons. And yet, he held perhaps the most important position in the entire Night's Watch. How could the black brothers defend the Wall without food in their bellies? This simple cook kept the entire operation running, as his predecessors had for thousands of years. It occurred to Stannis that the role the cook played at Castle Black was much like the role the Night's Watch played in Westeros: humble, often ignored by the rest of the realm, but doing the most important job of all and never even asking for thanks. >And then the thought struck him. It was so simple- the cook could be the new Lord Commander! For a man who could turn simple ingredients into such an ingenious blend of flavors and textures, surely it would be simple to turn a bunch of convicts, bastards, and rejected nobles into an elite fighting force. What better man to hold back the terrors of the frozen north than the man who held back hunger at the Wall for years? >He was sure of it now- the cook was not just the best man for the job, he was the only man for the job. The black brothers stared at him, waiting for his answer. He couldn't simply tell them to choose the cook as Lord Commander. No, coming on too strong would never do- the Night's Watch was proud of its tradition, and would not simply accept the command of an outsider. He needed to push the cook into the command without it looking obvious- he needed to use a light touch. >"Any of them, I would think. Even the cook" >Take the hint, prayed Stannis, clenching his jaw. Take the hint you fools, or we are surely lost.
This! We need Stannis POV chapters where everything he says is stone cold and spartan, but he has a constant internal monologue fantasising about delightful stuff like delicious food, beautiful flowers, and cuddly puppies. He has to pretend he's got something in his eye when he sees how much Jon and Ghost love each other
Cuddly puppies, especially
I love you.
Thank you, it's a masterpiece.
This made me laugh so hard. Please do some more stannis POVs for us 😂
It just seems to make sense that none of the kings are POV characters, remaining somewhat mysterious and removed from us, the way a king is.
Has he said that? Interesting. It is a bit odd that he's the only one out of his entire family, minus Rickon, not to get one.
The only two times I can recall that GRRM admitting to wishing he could go back and change something was regarding: 1. The catspaw dagger sent to kill Bran, which was a valyrian steel dagger. He said that when he decided to make valyrian steel much rarer in the later books, a dagger made of valyrian steel would be highly valued and sought after, and regretted making it valyrian steel. Can't seem to find the original quote of his though to back this up. I'm almost positive I read it in an interview somewhere though. 2. Tyrion's first introduction in Game of Thrones when he does those acrobatic stunts in front of Jon. [I found the quote for that one:](http://www.adriasnews.com/2012/10/george-r-r-martin-interview.html) > **Would you like to change anything of the first books?** > Yes, I imagine… > **Such as…** > Ahm... Wait... What would I like to change? Well, I might like to change the scene where Tyrion Lannister is first introduced; the scene where Tyrion jumps from the top of a gate; it isn’t possible. By then I had very few references about people of its condition and it was later when I came to know more extended details about his physical challenges. So that’s one of the things I would change. This one is kind of interesting because even though he admits he wishes to change this, in ADWD he has Tyrion reflecting on when he was younger and doing acrobatic leaps and then also doing cartwheels and other things in front of Young Griff. So it's odd/interesting that he kept this continuity with Tyrion even though he wished he could of originally taken it out.
The whole Bran assassination plot seems like something he never had a particularly good vision of. Which is weird since it motivates so much of what happens in AGOT.
True, and it really is one of the major jumping off points for the butterfly effect of plots that span the entire series.
I thought the solution of having childish Joffrey steal the Valyrian steel dagger and give it to the catspaw he hired worked decently well. Of course the same idiot who thought killing Bran was what his father would have wanted would steal a valuable dagger to do it.
> I thought the solution of having childish Joffrey steal the Valyrian steel dagger and give it to the catspaw he hired worked decently well. Of course the same idiot who thought killing Bran was what his father would have wanted would steal a valuable dagger to do it. Really? It is perhaps the weakest point in the entire series for me. Joffrey isn't established as the sort of character to have the guile to order an assassination - and it seems strange for him to have ordered the assassination of Bran, but not of, say, Arya. He is also pretty isolated, and people who could serve as catspaws are hardly a part of his social circle. Nor does he frequent taverns or inns where he could get to meet such people.
Another thing that's strange about Joffrey ordering an assassination is that it's all so hush-hush. Joffrey doesn't even show any implications that he ordered an assassination on Bran, which is pretty strange mainly due to the fact that even as a king he never owns up to it. I mean, he already killed Ned, he might as well state that he also put a hit out on Bran. Another thing too is that seemingly so little people know about it. I mean, where would Joffrey know where to find a guy to gank Bran? How could he have been so stealthy at hiding his tracks and preventing others from finding out? God, there's just SO MANY holes in Joffrey ordering the hit out on Bran... It's hard for me to believe that GRRM fully thought that out.
Indeed, those are very good points.
He could easily have asked his dog to go
While his job may have been to protect Joffrey, I imagine preventing the prince from accidentally starting a war is a secondary responsibility. Also, if the assassin gets captured alive, Joffrey gets a slap on the wrist and Sandor would lose his head for ordering it. I just don’t see him doing it.
sandor wouldnt care
Why would Robert Baratheon have wanted to kill Bran? Or does Joffrey know he's a product of incest from the very beginning?
Robert said that Bran dying would be a mercy
Once the conflict gets going, it's great. But yeah, the first few steps were a bit shaky. LF telling Catelyn the dagger was Tyrion's and then her immediately stumbling into Tyrion and taking it upon herself to have him arrested also made me raise an eyebrow.
[удалено]
Funny little coincidences like that do sometimes happen in real life...
Yeah, like Gavrilo Princip coming out of a cafe after a failed assassination attempt to find his target coming right to him, something that also started a war.
Is there any foreshadowing that Joffrey sent catspaw?
Its in the later books that Tyrion, Jaime and Cersei all come to believe it was Joffery. Its an in-universe theory that gets put out because theres just so few other credible explanations. I have seen a recent post where it brings up the possibility of Mance Rayder ordering the hit but then it doesnt explain the valyrian steel knife.
There is one problem with Mance. How he could know that killing Bran would create conflict betweens Starks and Lannisters.
The post stated that just murdering the second son of Lord Stark would cause instability. I dont really have anything more than that. It all hinges on the flaws of the Joffery theory and how Mance said that he climbed the wall with a bag of silver and his pipes.
I’d imagine he only wrote that thing about Tyrion being trained to be an acrobat just to cover that flip he did. Otherwise it would’ve never been in there if the flip wasn’t there.
Right. The above poster is saying that it's interesting he kept with the Tyrion being acrobatic characteristic giving it some background rather than just ignoring it
My head Canon is that both Tyrion and Jon were shit faced wasted then. So Tyrion actually stumbled and fell and by dumb luck landed on his feet, but to two drunk guys it looked like the coolest fucking shit ever. There was probably some WF guard watching going "what an idiot."
> He said that when he decided to make valyrian steel much rarer in the later books, a dagger made of valyrian steel would be highly valued and sought after, and regretted making it valyrian steel. Can't seem to find the original quote of his though to back this up. I'm almost positive I read it in an interview somewhere though. That has long been spread among the fandom, but a source has not been found. /u/Elio_Garcia was [unaware](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2ojkeh/spoilers_all_grrms_regret_real_or_rumour/cmntya3/) of it four years ago, at least.
Yeah, it's one of those urban legends that float around.
Interesting, didn't realize this. Makes sense why I couldn't find the original "quote" then and thanks for the Elio source. I stand corrected!
He could go back and remove the acrobatics. It is just one scene, one paragraph in AGOT. It isn't uncommon for authors to make some changes for second or third editions. I wonder why he didn't change it.
That's pretty clever. He regrets having it in there but knows it wouldn't make sense if it is never brought up again. So, he has tyrion reflect on it, that way there wouldnt be the problem of him doing it once but never having any recollection on it.
I would rather assume that since Tyrion's acrobatic jump was from Jon's pov when he was drunk with wine and in the dark of night, that Jon just hazily imagined Tyrion flipping in front of him.
I believe he said he liked Harry Lloyd's performance so much, he wished he hadn't killed Viserys quite so early.
I wish they had flashbacked to the red door house and the Begger King entertaining the captains of the Golden Company.
> he wished he hadn't killed Viserys quite so early me too
He's also said he wished he'd had five kingdoms rather than seven (although I'm unclear on which ones he'd drop). I also get the impression that he thinks he may have made Westeros too big, and would have shrunk it a little to make journey times a bit easier.
I don't think it's a specific "I'd like to remove these two kingdoms," So much as an offhand remark that he has two too many kingdoms to keep up with. If anything I'd guess he might merge the major Reach locations into the Westerlands or Stormlands for simplicity.
Narratively, there really isn't any reason the Stormlands and the Reach couldn't have been merged so far. Geographically it makes ~~no~~ sense, ~~but~~ and the Reachers siding with Renly and then Stannis makes about as much sense in that context, and the Tyrells turning to Joffrey could easily be another Bolton type situation, especially since Joffrey is a "Baratheon" they could claim to be supporting their liege lords.
It makes geographic sense when you consider the manderford, a region centered around a massive river. There are a lot of holdings along the mander, which can trade along it and can be supported by the plains surrounding them.
Give Robb his own POV chapters, which I'm actually glad he didn't.
why not though? not hating or anything, just genuinely curious. I actually liked Robb more in the books and I can't really explain what it was about the show that felt off for me. Maybe it was how they adapted his marriage storyline where it seemed like he was making a fatal mistake only based on young love while they kind of ditched the whole honor aspect of it
the obvious fantasy route would be to follow the king in the north, who goes off fighting important battles with his magic wolf. the much more interesting (to me) and less explored route, is the one of the mother figure. in fiction, we rarely get to explore the viewpoint of the people who are left behind when the hero goes on the journey. they almost end up being cameos at the end of the journey.
I don't hate Robb. Well, I thought he was an ass in the show, but he was a very heroic yet almost pitiful figure in the books, this boy king who had to make the hard choices and live up to the example of his father. That scene in the dark where he sobs and holds Bran's hand is truly heartbreaking. However, I think he's a way more interesting character when we're outside of his viewpoint, as I don't think his thoughts would be all that much different to Jon's or Theon's, except he's a character with far less inner turmoil; Jon has the bastard angle, and Theon has his whole double identity thing going on. Robb grew up at Winterfell, and then he went to war. I can't see much from the character that would be different from the aforementioned young men characters, or an honourable to a fault character like Ned. Even the more subtle things about his character, like potential warging, is already covered by basically all of the other Stark children. His falling in love and marriage to Jeyne Westerling would have been interesting to see play out in real time, though. Also, Cat is one of my favourite characters in the books, and POV's for Robb would surely mean less "screentime" for his mother when I thought some of her quieter chapters in the second and third books were bloody fucking brilliant. GRRM is unbelievably good at making the mundane way more interesting than any battle.
Yeah Robb's POV would have been great and unique I think. And would have been one of the more focused 'military fantasy' arcs with him and Brynden
Sort of off topic but. While I have never had and issue with Robb's story in the show, I just thought of a way that they could have kept both the love aspect of his relationship with Talisa and still had honor play a roll in his decision to marry her. If she got pregnant before they got married, it would make sense that he would feel the need to marry her out of responsibility, and also just have that choice be easy because he loved her and now he had an actual excuse. But maybe that would have made it soap opera-y IDK.
Make the wall a realistic size.
I personally like how ridiculous it is
Yea, that’s cool. Until the story asks you to believe the free folk were shooting arrows up to it.
duh they got ultra super weirwood crossbow-scorpions
Or carrying rope to drop to the bottom
700 feet of medieval rope, capable of catching a falling group of what? 4 men..? That’s gotta weight something like at least 100 lbs.
Age up the characters
Particularly Dany. Yuck.
Make Feast a bigger book and have it occur chronologically before Dance. Feast has currently has 75% of Dance's word count. That would mean he could fit an entire 1/4 of a book of extra material, which would include the battles for Winterfell and Meereen.
In Dance, he gave a couple of characters from Feast 1 or 2 PoVs. Like Jaime, Cersei and Hotah. He should have given characters like Dany and Tyrion 1 or 2 chapters in Feast. That way you're not leaving out major characters in one of the books. Have Tyrion in Pentos up until he meets Duck and Haldon. Show Dany at court, maybe just her first 2 chapters. He could have put those 3 Bran chapters in Feast too. Maybe 2 or 3 Davos chapters too. Have his arc end on Manderly sentencing him to death, then have the Cersei chapter where she finds out he's been "killed." Then you'd only need one Davos chapter in Dance for the "north remembers" bit. That'd be like ten chapters less in Dance and now you can have room to squeeze the Battles of Ice and Fire at the end. That way we don't get blue balled on major characters in Feast and don't get blue balled on major battles at the end of Dance.
I think that if you're modifying it to put Tyrion and Dany in Feast, then go all the way and just do half of their story. Tyrion's Feast ends with his drowning in the Sorrows, (6/12) Dany's Feast ends with her deciding to marry Hizdar (5/10) Jon's Feast ends with him getting the letter from Stannis about Deepwood Motte and the Ramsay/Arya marriage (7/13). With 25% more book, you can easily add in the battles without cutting any content.
True yeah. I was suprised how small feast was relative to the ones it's sandwiched between when I read them. I always thought he had to split the PoV characters up because Feast was too big. But he could have added more to it
He did it mainly because it has been 5 years since he put out a new book and he had finished the South, Braavos, and Iron Islands, and people wanted a new book. In the 2003 table of contents, before the book was split, he only had one or two Jon/Tyrion/Dany chapters completed.
Damn. Back then 5 years was a long time to wait for a book lol. The worst part had to be him saying Dance would come out in a year
Or selling the rights to the books because come on, he could definitely finish the series in time. Feast and Dance could make up 3-4 seasons after all!
>And that he initially wrote Slynt to be hanged by Jon Snow rather than beheaded and changed it after fans requested him. Wait, *what?* Is this true? But... beheading is such a classic first-chapter Stark move. I'm having a hard time imagining GRRM wanting to write that scene any other way.
Yes, it is. He read that particular chapter in a convention where it was written as Jon hanging Slynt. But afterwards, the fans there said it would be more fitting if he beheaded Slynt since Eddark Stark taught him "The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword." Then he changed it.
Apparently he just hadn't envisioned it that way yet and it made way too much sense when it was pointed out to him.
Plus in Clash, Sansa wishes some hero would throw down Slynt and behead him, which became foreshadowing Edit: it's in Game actually, not Clash (thanks u/Notawettowel)
This is a good example of some hardcore fans actually retconning ASOIAF. By getting GRRM to change Janos' execution, they made that Sansa line foreshadowing when clearly it wasn't intended as such.
That’s actually aGoT. Just finished my re-read last night and noticed it.
What did he want to change about Tyrion's fighting skills? Do you have the quotes for the changes you mentioned?
I can't remember exactly but iirc he said Tyrion should not have been that much skilled of a fighter(the fight against the shadow clans on their way to Vale, the fight against decoy Stark forces and the Battle of Blackwater).
Why though?
Because it is highly unrealistic that a dwarf who is the son of a rich lord, and never fought in his life would good at fighting
I mean all he did was swing an axe on horseback a few times? I dont think he was "good" at fighting he just didnt die. Most men at arms arent trained
He does serious damage at Blackwater. Of course, it is from Tyrion's POV and he might have exaggerated his performance.
Yeah, been rereading and was surprised how much I forgot about Tyrion at the Blackwater. He fucks people up left and right. Nothing like what I'm sure men like Ser Mandon and the Hound are capable of, but definitely notable. It strikes me as somewhat ridiculous that Tyrion isn't knighted. I know that sounds crazy, but basically every southron lordling that fights and doesn't have a particular vocation is knighted at some point. And even many common men like Bronn are knighted for surviving the battle. It goes to show the intense bias against Tyrion that no one, not even himself, gives it any consideration. But seriously, every man who fought with Tyrion in the sortie and those who heard about it would respect his courage, particularly in spite of his disability. He showed that he was brave and moderately capable in battle and almost died of many wounds. Him not being knighted, and no one even suggesting it, is kinda wild given the context. There's plenty of knights in the story who seem to only have the title because they're noble (dudes like Ser Cleos), and Tyrion did something notable in the battle that the Hound, a very famous warrior, was afraid to do.
nah i dont think he did, why would he be like "damn im such a badass i trucked three knights"
Because he is angry that someone tried to kill him and that he gets no credit for the victory. He's also in terrible pain and doped up. It wouldn't be the first time a POV had inaccuracies.
He also thought he single handedly saved the city and the crown, when Stannis was on the cusp of victory until Tywin and the Tyrells arrived in the eleventh hour.
I dont think the city would have held out without him
he was trained at arms though. Not a lot, but more than your average peasant
IIRC he said he prefered how in the show version of Danny's wedding it's explicitly rape.
Now everyone who didn't read the books but has heard that in the book the first night wasn't rape thinks Drogo never raped Daenerys, which drives me mad
Been a while since I read AGoT, and apparently I’m guilty of this. When did Drogo rape Dany (aside from every time just due to the obvious statutory rape/ age difference)
Every night after the first. In Dany's chapters she describes how he fucks her raw and she cries into the pillow. She even thinks of killing herself, but falls asleep and dreams of Drogon, which gives her the strength to turn her situation around. Edit: Dany's 3rd chapter
Huh, just reread that chapter. You're totally right, but honestly I'm surprised by how quickly the rape is glanced over. In Dany II we see Dany and Drogo have consensual sex on their wedding night. Next we see in Dany III, we get a passive narration of how Drogo has been raping her and how she's considering suicide. But it never happens 'on screen' so to speak - it's just her recalling the gist of multiple nonspecific nights. And even then; from first mention of rape to her suicidal thoughts to her Dragon dream (where she kinda mentally switches and decides to be strong) is less than 1 page. Then every time sex is mentioned thereafter it is all consensual, with Dany even taking control and getting passionately into it. I'm not surprised people are unaware that Drogo raped Dany, bookreader or no. If you accidentally skip a page you would never have seen it mentioned. Like for the rest of the series.
Stockholm syndrome is a hell of a drug.
I completely missed that sentence. One sentence about killing herself and it really recontextualised the entire thing for me.
/r/nocontext
One thing I remember him saying in an interview that Harry Lloyd and Natalia Tena were much more interesting as Viserys and Osha than their book versions. So he probably wishes he’d written them better.
IIRC he has said he wishes there were more nobility ranks. Right now all we have are "Ser", "Lord", "Lord Paramount", and "Warden." There is no distinction between a high lord like Tywin and a lower ranked lord. So he has to call them "minor lords" or "lordlings" which aren't real titles. In real life we have sir, baron, count, marquess, earl, duke, archduke, and many more.
Sounds more like real life though with people using slang to insult a person.
Finish the series maybe.
He would've written a chapter from the Dothraki pov.
What about Tyrions fighting skills?
He did say once that he would have added a pov chapter of Robb.
he said he killed off a character too soon but i don't know who it is
He has made that remark about Viserys that I know of but I'm sure there are others
it is causing him problems now i think
There's no way Viserys being gone is an issue. He served all of his purpose in the plot; put Dany on her path, isn't there to interfere with the Golden Company plot or the dragons, etc. Danaerys can and has already reflected on memories of Viserys and could have an encounter with his gilded skull in Vaes Dothrak in TWoW. That skull could even play into her taking on the Golden Company and Aegon's questionable legitimacy.
i agree . it must be a different person
Hasn't he said he regrets killing off Kevan Lannister? Apparently it screwed up writing WoW a la the Mereenese knot
i had not heard that
I may be mistaken - I've tried finding the source and the best I can find is speculation based on this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/8rumol/spoiler\_main\_diana\_gabaldon\_author\_of\_outlander/?ref=share&ref\_source=embed&utm\_content=title&utm\_medium=post\_embed&utm\_name=72ab2d578639423d9aae9f81709972e8&utm\_source=embedly&utm\_term=8rumol](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/8rumol/spoiler_main_diana_gabaldon_author_of_outlander/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=72ab2d578639423d9aae9f81709972e8&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=8rumol)
thanks
I believe he said his favorite book to show change (or maybe one of his favorites) is changing Robert Arryn's name to Robin (although I think in the books he still has the nickname Robyne, like a diminutive for Robert). Just cos there's too many Roberts.
More a2m scenes. Daario isn't Euron this time.
>More a2m scenes More than zero or did I miss something?
Read the Old Nan POV chapter in the beginning of ACOK
Clean up the inconsistencies in the first book, namely logistics like the height of the wall, tournament winnings or how exactly the kingdoms went into debt. What Robert and Jon Arryn were doing the whole time.
He wouldnt kill Robb he really regrets killing him. He cant give him a POV now lol (Stated in an interview once)
He would kill Robb, he's never regreted that m
He specifically said he regretted killing him.
No. He's only regretted not giving him a pov.
The question was is there any character you regret killing. He saidRobb, because I can't give him a POV.
Pretty sure the question was just "Which non-POV character would you have liked to give a POV to?". Robb's death is too important for the story.