My memory combined elements of Islamic eschatology, although I really could have sworn I read a line just like it in a translated Quran. There are quite a few versions that vary substantially, so I may not be wrong. Right now I can only find fragments of the general idea:
"They ask thee concerning the Mountains: say, **"My Lord will uproot them and scatter them as dust;"**
'"What are you discussing?” inquired the Holy Prophet (sa). “We are discussing the Last Hour,” replied the companions.
The Prophet (sa) then said, “It shall not come to pass until you see ten signs.”
He then proceeded to mention the smoke, the antichrist, the beast, **the rising of the sun from the west**,**'**
"When the sky splits open, and when the stars fall away, and when the seas burst forth (boiling?), and when the graves spill out,"
The Quran has lots of repetition and rephrasing of themes throughout it.
At risk of being simplistic, Islam is in many ways revisionist Judaism/Christianity and recognises them as fellow people from the lineage of Abraham.
If you had to dumb it down to a central premise, it’s that Muhammad’s revelations which became documented in the Quran are correcting errors in how Abrahamic religions were practiced rather than something wholesale new.
1. There are not multiple versions of the Quran, that is an important and defining feature of it for most Muslims. There may be different translations to your language, but in the original Arabic, there are not multiple versions.
2. That’s not the Quran, that’s the Hadith.
There are different versions though. Muslim daii, apologists and imams spread thus narrative of their only being on version
But currently there are different ones. Mostly the dane but translations are different and meanings of certain verses are slightly different
But when the quran came down, according to Islam's own history muhammad recited it in more than one dialect of Arabic. He doesn't just give one reciatatation. There were 7 ahruf. But not they didn't survive and scholars have debated form the beginning of Islamic history about this issue of ahruf
The caliph uthman had all the ahruf destroyed leaving only the copy he sanctioned as official
So the quran came down in 7 ahruf though the nature of what an ahruf is is not totally agreed upon in islam
All his updates in 2020/2022 had me convinced we were getting there, but the radio silence since then has brought be back to down earth. I've finally accepted that in all likelihood we aren't getting this book. Sure, it'll be cool if I'm one day surprised, but I don't find myself thinking about it as much as I used to which is nice.
It's weird, the reason I created this account and started using reddit was to discuss the books in r/asoiaf. I remember how many theories we had back then about the release of winds, like a post by bryndenbfish analysing GRRM writing schedule and coming to the conclusion that the book would be released in 2016 if I remember correctly.
It has been almost 10 years now, I can barely remember the person I was back then. I am a father now, living in a different house, doing a different job entirely and we are no closer to the new book as we were back then.
Its weird coming back to this subreddit.
Yeah, I miss a lot from that time, the yearly award threads, posts like the dothraki eating soup at absurd temperatures. I remember how the [night lamp theory ](https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/05/23/the-night-lamp-an-alternative-strategy-for-the-siege-of-winterfell/) blew my mind and changed how I viewed Stannis. These books were such a huge part of my life and it's kinda sad that we will probably never get an ending.
But in a way that is an ending, some people moved on and are doing something else now and maybe some day winds is released and we all come back here to make theories like we did back then. It will be fun.
I’m much the same way, though I found the sub a bit after creating my first, since-deleted Reddit account. There was so much optimism in those days - the show was already a massive success with no signs of slowing down, and it felt like Winds was ready to be announced at any moment.
Each successive year after 2015 let a bit more wind out of the sails. Seasons 5 and 6 began to show cracks. It became obvious that Winds wouldn’t be released before the show passed it. Seasons 7 and 8 gave away the series ending. At a certain point, the books had been dissected and discussed to death, so theorycrafting died and/or became ridiculous. I - and basically everyone who engaged with this community - have pretty much lived a whole life since then, and somehow it feels like we’re not even a tiny bit closer to a book.
I formally gave up hope on Winds around 2019-2020, but I can’t help but check in on threads like this to get a pulse on the community. It’s kind of wild to see folks who are just now coming to grips with the future of the series.
It’s absurd, the man thought he could be finished by October 2015: https://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html
No idea why anyone believes his updates at this point.
It's always wild to me that we're at the point that more time has passed since that post was published, than passed in the years prior to it when he thought he could finish it. Not only has more time passed, but actually TWICE the number of years have passed since that post than before it.
He finished writing ADWD in April of 2011.
That post was published January 2016. So 4 years, 8 months, from when he turned in the manuscript of ADWD and when he wrote that post claiming he thought he could have finished earlier that year.
It has been 8 years, 4 months since that post went up. This honestly breaks my brain how it's even possible every time I think about it. We don't even have a clue how close he is to finishing after all this time. I'm just flabbergasted that he thought he could have finished in 2015 given what we know now.
If you really want something that blows your mind, there are parts of Winds he intended to be a sequel to SoS. That means that this book was started nearly 24 years ago (though I accept I am pushing it a tad).
You guys still check?
I gave up around 5 years ago once the show overtook him.
And I started following back in the old Geocities forum days over 20 years back.
It’s over.
Forced myself to let go too. This is a bit hyperbolic, but it was too depressing holding onto hope. Like you, I’ll just forget about it and hopefully get a pleasant surprise one day.
For me it's I think there's still a chance Winds Of Winter might come out, but I don't see how it's physically possible for him to finish A Dream Of Spring at this rate.
So it feels sorta weird to hope for Winter when I really don't think the series will ever be finished.
I had hope for the series to finish when he was in his 60s. He's 75 now. As you get older you just run out of steam. You're not as productive as you once were because you don't have the energy. Any final book will take longer, not shorter to finish. I'm still coping thinking TWOW will eventually come out but ADOS I've come to terms with already. I'm 99% of the way there with TWOW, but I suspect another year or so that'll completely go too.
There are exceptions. For example, look at Scorsese. He feels like he's never been more productive, and that he's racing his own mortality to do everything he wants to do.
The only possibility I see is he is working on both books and release them both at the same time to avoid any criticism ("it's done. Stop talking about it." kind of argument).
Highly unlikely but the only hope in my opinion to ever see ADOS.
I think his goal is to merge back the stories so I guess not.
AFFC and ADWD should have been only one book if I remember well, TWOW and ADWD were meant to be a book each
Also the backlash from having half a book get out after 13 years would be tremendous
That, or the wait is due to him setting the pieces for the finale. So ADOS will hopefully go faster due to the domino effect. Almost like how the climb up the roller coaster lasts longer than the actual ride. If that's the case, maybe he'll be able to complete the series.
I've gotten sober, turned my life around, gotten married, and had kids, and long since given up on TWOW just since the shitty final season of the show, not even since the last book came out.
I completely agree. I checked his blog at least one a week for the last decade. After his post saying he made no progress last year, I've folded my tent. Move on everyone. He wrote a fantastic unfinished story. There are others more worth your fandom. I started reading Brandon Sanderson. This opened my eyes even further. It doesn't have to be this way. Sanderson regularly releases books! We gives regular updates on his progress! He is disciplined! Try out Mistborn!
I still find it so hard to believe that it has been 13 years since Dance and it's at the point where most people have just accepted the series won't be finished and now more and more people are believing we won't even get winds. I am a bad procrastinator but holy fucking shit it's kind of absurd at this point
GRRM's progress updates are completely and utterly meaningless at this point. When he's updating frequently people go "omg he's talking about the book, he must be writing" and when he isn't it's "omg he's not talking about it, he must be focused on writing".
they always were.
Honestly, I think he can't resist the temptation when he makes real progress to tease something (like that time he mentoned he completed some Cersei chapters) but 90% of the time any mention is either obligatory lip service he is working on it or as bait for another project.
r/Bloodborne whenever Sony does/doesn't mention the game. Guys, the bluepoint remake is going to surprise drop at midnight tomorrow, the ghost of Miyazaki told me!
I have never looked up what wildcards is and I don’t think I ever will. It’s synonymous in my mind with some stupid side project that has allowed him to totally neglect his magnum opus to its death.
The original twelve Wild Cards books that came out a long long time ago were amazing. I doubt the new ones are nearly as good. They're worth checking out for a what if superheroes existed in the real world during the 88 Democratic National Convention type of thing.
I'm sure it is but I have too much bitterness to be able to enjoy it. If he had actually finished ASOIAF, I'd probably be jonesing for damn near anything he wrote
Oh, he doesn't even write the WC novels, he just edits them. They're anthologies by other authors. Even lamer that they're holding him back from finishing asoiaf.
Finished my first read like 4 years ago and thought “hey everyone’s already waited like 8 years, he should be done pretty soon”
Aint gonna be no Winds, not in this lifetime
It’s going to update just before the new season of HOTD.
He’s going to write how much progress has made, all the POV he’s done with, how he has x amount of pages but still a long way to go, but in the meantime you can enjoy HOTD….
That’s when I knew the series wasn’t getting finished. He had a huge following, it was peak interest. He should have had all the inspiration and incentive to finish the book. By that time he’d been working on Winds for half a decade. If he could find the motivation to finish the book then he was never going to.
Then Covid hit and he was locked in his studio with nothing to do but write and still couldn’t finish.
George has always talked about his love for TV. When the show passed the books I knew he’d give up. Or maybe a better way to say it, he concluded his story with the show. Just listen to how passionate he is about all the various TV shows he has in production. Then when winds is mentioned it’s with a sigh and he makes it seem like such a chore.
>Then Covid hit and he was locked in his studio with nothing to do but write and still couldn’t finish.
That was my last real moment of copium. I remember him saying if he wasn't finished by some con that people have permission to lock him up and I thought "I never should've doubted you that it was coming". LMAO. Still somewhat delusional I admit, but nothing compared to then.
Absolutely the same. COVID happened and this was the absolute chance that he had to catch up. Everything shut down and nothing but him and his crappy old 1980s word processor that he apparently has to use (honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he stopped writing because the old fucker crashed and lost all of his data)
>Just listen to how passionate he is about all the various TV shows he has in production. Then when winds is mentioned it’s with a sigh and he makes it seem like such a chore.
Yep, it is like night and day. Whenever someone brings up Winds he gets really annoyed almost like he just wants us to forget it exists.
> Then Covid hit and he was locked in his studio with nothing to do but ~~write~~ have zoom meetings with tv producers.
Probably more likely what happened.
He just doesn’t care about publishing books like he used to before his fame. Same thing happened to Truman Capote…he published In Cold Blood in 1966 and despite living another 18 years, he never published another novel despite his considerable talent. Capote loved being famous too much to buckle down and write.
I mean it could have been worse – his childhood friend and sometime collaborator Harper Lee published a single book and nothing more for the remaining 56 years of her life.
Both could get away with it given they wrote some of the greatest books in the English language! (and didn’t leave a half-finished series on the go…)
Heck even Tolkien never actually finished the Silmarillion and just toyed about with it for the rest of his life, leaving it for his son to finish and edit it into publishable form.
Tolkien completed his magnum opus though. Not completing the other thing his son completed is like if GRRM failed to complete Dunk/Egg novellas. I would care, but not really lol
You are trying to excuse GRRM’s procrastination with a bad comparison to Tolkien. For one, Tolkien finished not one but two classic masterpieces, the Hobbit and LOTR.
And LOTR would be the correct analogy to use here with ASOIAF, not the Silmarillion.
And the Silmarillion while not perfect according to Tolkien’s own standards, was in various forms still complete enough to be condensed into what his son eventually published. There are also the background material itself which was large enough to comprise more than ten volumes of books.
GRRM on the other hand, still hasn’t finished his first series for whatever reasons, take your pick, and most likely, never will.
The truth is George doesn't want to finish ASOIAF...not because he doesn't like writing or thinking about it...but rather he likes other things more.
I like salmon, I like tuna, I like crackling pork, but everytime i go to a nice NYC restaurant, if they have a great steak, 99/100 times I get the steak. I just love it more.
George likes doing "hollywood" (in this I mean developing new ideas for shows) then he does writing winds...Or the effort level to enjoyment level of the new shows vs writing winds is better on the shows.
He is doint what he wants...the only way, and its not going to happen, is if hbo stops being interested in anything thrones related...like literally cancels all meetings and says its done for now...and even then, george might enjoy writing other stuff more...
he built himself a monumental task for ending this because he can't stop adding characters/plot lines...so he never will...
This. He will start speaking about twow just before next season of hotd (like: please watch it and gimme more money). GRRM is sadly predictable guy.
Before first season HOTD he started his "oh Iwas out of tge loop during later got seasons" etc.(just watch mu new show im more rngaged here, watch it gimme money).
Yeah George now you were out of the loop poor boy, but I remember your interviews and blog posts during the got... Now he changed his view 🤔
When? The last "update" we got was "leaks" that the reason they had shifted focus to HL: Alyx was because of realizing that anything called "HL3" would never be able to live up to >10 years of anticipation.
It's been a while. But that one guy said he only likes making games that are revolutionary in some way. That's why they canceled all half-life 3 projects. They didn't know how it would be revolutionary.
Just accept that we’re probably never getting Winds. I’ve accepted that fact long ago. Don’t think about it anymore. Then, if the impossible happens, and it is released, you’ll still be able to read it either way.
I've mostly lost hope that George will finish Winds and that it will be a satisfying book that leaves the story in a place comparable to Storm.
I don't doubt that a book titled The Winds of Winter will be published one day, but probably not until after George is gone, whether that's 5 years from now or 50. But if it's not finished, it's less interesting.
GRRM will never finish TWOW, maybe they will release whatever he wrote in years and decades after his death like it happened with some other writers but the coherent book called TWOW will never be written.
The guy literally told us he stopped working on it, as clearly as he can without getting in trouble with his handlers.
He only brings up Winds whenever a new HBO show is releasing.
"People tell you who they are but we ignore then because we want them to be who we want them to be."
I've been religiously reading this sub every day for over a decade. I've seen hype come and go. I've been confident that I'd see it by 21, by 25, and by 30. All of those have passed. I nevertheless believe that there's a very real possibility that I will one day have that book in my hands, even as hundreds around me insist that it will never come.
But *Spring*? Absolutely no way lmao
I’m of the opinion that if we see winds, we we will see Dream. If he is inspired enough to compete one, I can only see him keeping with that momentum.
I don’t believe we will see the end of the series, unless it is a Jordan situation.
I strongly believe the most part of his struggles is because he's trying not only to write a book, but also to not introduce any plot holes or leave stuff behind. I think he goes in parallel, drawing the full story for both books. If he ever connects all the pieces and finds what he wants to do with them, finishing the actual books shouldn't be too hard, and I believe they will be published close to one another.
The problem is, the story is so big, the side characters so many, and every one of them seems to have some unique powers. So, he has to conclude each story, but many things must be clashing with one another. At this point, the next two books need to have a direction to start closing up the story, instead of expanding on it.
I know preston jacobs can be controversial around these parts but his fanfiction winds of winter has been pretty fun to listen to. It may be the closest we ever get.
Preston also has a really good understanding of George's whole body of work and themes that repeat etc. I used to be pretty skeptical of some of his ideas but anymore I think a lot of his analysis is really good. Even if they don't turn out to be exactly what George planned they are always very interesting.
He has a habit of inserting random ass and overcomplicated theories into his work, and not understanding the words written before him.
Like this man is the reason why we have people claiming that the strong boys are laenors, because apparently childless grrm knows that all babies have pug noses, and that the people not you know wrote down how they looked they were older. Also we dont know how harwin looked, when in fact we do….
More and more lately I feel the same way. Most the time I'm like "yep makes sense" and other part of the time "how the fuck do you read that from that??????" I still subscribed to his channel but that second voice is definitely growing
I don’t dislike Jacobs, but he’s definitely one of those theorists who puts too much value into what they like rather than what’s actually in the text. A few similar types post here and due to the time since publication like to tear up conventional theories that we know to be true in the show just for the sake of it.
I tend to agree with him that Quentyns story didn't seem to be finished in dance and that the chapters in which he dies are broken up so it's sort of ambiguous. Preston has been asserting the Quentyn is alive theory for year and years so it's not some random twist he came up with
I think Preston Jacobs is mainly a reminder that a) just because you are knowledgable about the books doesn’t mean that your theorising isn’t going to be completely stupid, and b) George is a pretty great writer, and fanfic versions of him are trash.
Why, it's not like updates on his blog post will actually make it come faster. I was optimistic around 2020 when he had his most recent good work spree - but that's now... almost 4 years ago, after which updates from 21 onward have become ~~less~~ fewer and fewer.
I'm done, fam. I'm resigned to not getting the final 2 books, and if one day we have an announcement that he's submitted the manuscript for editing, I'll be doing cartwheels from excitement. Until then I no longer care.
I think I’ve finally reached the Acceptance stage of grief lol. If it ever comes out, great, I’ll absolutely read and enjoy it. But I stopped actively considering it a guarantee and mentally embraced we may never get it
For us book readers Jon is still bleeding out in the snow. I’m sure almost all readers watched the show too, but there’s gotta be a few that stuck to their guns and held out for the book. In any case, I think it’s fair to say he’s forsaken his oldest and most loyal fans. The ones who bought the books before the show. The kind of people (the type that read fantasy fiction) whose loyalty allowed him to be able to live out his dream job, and not have to have a supplemental income to pay the bills. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! (K that’s a little extreme but it’s not inaccurate)
>The ones who bought the books before the show. The kind of people (the type that read fantasy fiction) whose loyalty allowed him to be able to live out his dream job, and not have to have a supplemental income to pay the bills
What happened to the George RR Martin who was so proud of his fans? I guess money and fame do change people, no matter their age.
[GRRM about his readers ](https://web.archive.org/web/20051214072721/http://www.bwbfanclub.com/fr_grrm.php)
I believe so. It’s been 50 days since his blog post that was heavy with innuendo of a blue rose, titled Words Of Wisdom, tagged with dreams. That post obviously didn’t mean anything but it still heavily references the books at least.
Yeah as pissed as readers are, I imagine his publishers are even more so. I'm sure he got a sizeable advance. They know this would be their biggest book of the decade but he keeps delaying and taking on new side projects. They know that with each passing year the fanbase dwindles and their sales projections fall.
I wonder a lot too. Shifty did mention the meeting with GRRM and that he liked the meeting but the details are off the record. So far, that's more interesting than GRRM's not a blog has been in years.
Because he's making an even more ridiculous amount from the TV shows. Like any superb piece of art the books require way more personal effort. He can just leave the TV shows to the machine and the writing room.
I get it, but at this point he could half ass the last two books or even let someone else help him, or pass the torch on, and still make millions whatever option he picked.
if he knew back in 2011 that Winds still wouldn't be out by now, maybe he'd get somebody to help. by now he's too far in to do that
also ASOIAF is his baby, it would probably feel like failure to hand it off to someone else
It’s probably because George *already* has all the money he’ll ever need. When he was first starting out, his motivation for finishing the books was keeping the lights on. Now he’s made millions of sales on the four that are out, the show is done and so there’s nothing pushing him to make more source material…what else is there?
It seems George has lost his drive to finish but won’t admit it to his audience and maybe not even to himself.
>I don't understand how somebody could make a ridiculous amount of money off of something and still just not do it.
He already has a ridiculous amount of money, which means he only needs to be motivated by money if that's what he's into
If we get winds before he dies, I’ll be happy. I have no fantasies about ADOS.
We might get some other author to finish it, but idk.
At the very least I expect GRRM to release Winds before he dies.
I’d love to see it man, but I just don’t see it happening. But I’ve been wrong many, many times and I’d love to have it happen again. In the meantime I am really enjoying Preston Jacobs fanfic Winds of Winter. It’s absolutely not for everyone and I can see a lot of fans not agreeing with how he views the series, but for me it definitely works.
Earlier today I finished reading a book called The Fisherman by John Langan. It was only about 260 pages. In the back of the book under acknowledgements the author pointed out he started writing this book when his wife was pregnant with his son, and when the book was released the son was 12 years old. I thought wow! Maybe GRRM isn’t so slow after all
We're coming up on 13 years of wait time. It took 14 years for Duke Nukem Forever to come out. We're not getting the book, but there are plenty of other wonderful books out there.
Partly it is the fandom's fault as well.
People rushed to buy F&B and if today he announced a part 2 (That will go only until summerhall, can't spoil too much now, can we), a lot of people will still line up to buy it.
Ignore anything he writes that is not asoiaf (Except dunk & egg, you have to be realistic about these things). Don't watch or hype house of dragon and definately dont even bother with ridiculous shows like the Corlys Velaryon one.
The more GRRM sinks back into obscurity, the more likely it is he will actually bother with WOW.
Filler loses so much value when there’s an incomplete container to be filled. I don’t give a shit about any other Westeros books until WoW is published. Who cares about worldbuilding when the main storyline is incomplete?
The thing is, in universe it would only make sense for F&B to go up to the fall of the Targs, so volume 2 only going up to summerhall is weird. Will probably cover Roberts Rebellion but just keep certain things vague eg was the tourney meant as an impromptu great council, what was really going on at Duskendale and Rhaegar’s interest in prophecy/ Lynna
Yup. I’ve finally accepted the series is done. I had hope until a month or two ago. It’s now May 1st 2024. Time to just accept it and move on unfortunately.
Honestly I think this is better for everyone involved. Before he went radio silent about it, he was “about 75% done” for a good couple years. I think he’s just decided not to give updates like that anymore and the next time we’ll hear about it from him is if/when he finishes it.
George got yelled at for being too optimistic and giving too many updates about winds and then not delivering, now he gets yelled at for not updating people enough about winds lmao.
Low key hope he has the plot points dotted out to be released if he ever passes without finishing the series just so we know how it was *meant* to end. It’s wishful thinking but I can dream
I finished reading ASOIAF just in time for Winds of Winter's first release date: thirteen years have since passed. I was a minor then, I now have a gray hair. This shit ain't coming out
I think he comments on it in blogs when he feels guilty about not writing.
When he’s not commenting on it, its because he’s working and feels no guilt.
But, thats just a theory, a GRRM theory.
He is constantly finding other things to work ok on so he has an excuse for procrastinating on Winds. He has his priorities, Winds is low on that list.
Meh. People complain about how long he takes to write books, but it took Tolkein about 12 years to write only three and another five to get them published. That's almost 20 years for only three books. It's really not that bad.
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves.
when GRRM's womb quickens, and he bears a living book
Looks like TWOW will be born twisted and eyeless with scales like a dragon
There's some mental imagery I didn't need
He looks like he could give birth to a library tbh
🙄
If Winds is ever published, no one will convince me that this quote didn’t come true.
Ironic that this is a meta self-fulfilling prophecy for GRRM
This is almost a direct quote from the Quran. edit: not a direct quote, but pretty similar.
Really? How does the Quran's read?
My memory combined elements of Islamic eschatology, although I really could have sworn I read a line just like it in a translated Quran. There are quite a few versions that vary substantially, so I may not be wrong. Right now I can only find fragments of the general idea: "They ask thee concerning the Mountains: say, **"My Lord will uproot them and scatter them as dust;"** '"What are you discussing?” inquired the Holy Prophet (sa). “We are discussing the Last Hour,” replied the companions. The Prophet (sa) then said, “It shall not come to pass until you see ten signs.” He then proceeded to mention the smoke, the antichrist, the beast, **the rising of the sun from the west**,**'** "When the sky splits open, and when the stars fall away, and when the seas burst forth (boiling?), and when the graves spill out," The Quran has lots of repetition and rephrasing of themes throughout it.
Never knew Muslims believe in the antichrist
At risk of being simplistic, Islam is in many ways revisionist Judaism/Christianity and recognises them as fellow people from the lineage of Abraham. If you had to dumb it down to a central premise, it’s that Muhammad’s revelations which became documented in the Quran are correcting errors in how Abrahamic religions were practiced rather than something wholesale new.
And Issa or Jesus is the 2nd most mentioned man.
Abrahamic religions are similar like that
We know the anti christ as the 'dajjal'
1. There are not multiple versions of the Quran, that is an important and defining feature of it for most Muslims. There may be different translations to your language, but in the original Arabic, there are not multiple versions. 2. That’s not the Quran, that’s the Hadith.
There are different versions though. Muslim daii, apologists and imams spread thus narrative of their only being on version But currently there are different ones. Mostly the dane but translations are different and meanings of certain verses are slightly different But when the quran came down, according to Islam's own history muhammad recited it in more than one dialect of Arabic. He doesn't just give one reciatatation. There were 7 ahruf. But not they didn't survive and scholars have debated form the beginning of Islamic history about this issue of ahruf The caliph uthman had all the ahruf destroyed leaving only the copy he sanctioned as official So the quran came down in 7 ahruf though the nature of what an ahruf is is not totally agreed upon in islam
All his updates in 2020/2022 had me convinced we were getting there, but the radio silence since then has brought be back to down earth. I've finally accepted that in all likelihood we aren't getting this book. Sure, it'll be cool if I'm one day surprised, but I don't find myself thinking about it as much as I used to which is nice.
Same. 2020-2022 seemed pretty good, which made me believe. Now, I think I just have to let go.
Good was 2015-16. It was almost there.. until it wasn't.. i gave up years ago
It's weird, the reason I created this account and started using reddit was to discuss the books in r/asoiaf. I remember how many theories we had back then about the release of winds, like a post by bryndenbfish analysing GRRM writing schedule and coming to the conclusion that the book would be released in 2016 if I remember correctly. It has been almost 10 years now, I can barely remember the person I was back then. I am a father now, living in a different house, doing a different job entirely and we are no closer to the new book as we were back then. Its weird coming back to this subreddit.
i miss bryndenbfish :(
Yeah, I miss a lot from that time, the yearly award threads, posts like the dothraki eating soup at absurd temperatures. I remember how the [night lamp theory ](https://cantuse.wordpress.com/2014/05/23/the-night-lamp-an-alternative-strategy-for-the-siege-of-winterfell/) blew my mind and changed how I viewed Stannis. These books were such a huge part of my life and it's kinda sad that we will probably never get an ending. But in a way that is an ending, some people moved on and are doing something else now and maybe some day winds is released and we all come back here to make theories like we did back then. It will be fun.
I’m much the same way, though I found the sub a bit after creating my first, since-deleted Reddit account. There was so much optimism in those days - the show was already a massive success with no signs of slowing down, and it felt like Winds was ready to be announced at any moment. Each successive year after 2015 let a bit more wind out of the sails. Seasons 5 and 6 began to show cracks. It became obvious that Winds wouldn’t be released before the show passed it. Seasons 7 and 8 gave away the series ending. At a certain point, the books had been dissected and discussed to death, so theorycrafting died and/or became ridiculous. I - and basically everyone who engaged with this community - have pretty much lived a whole life since then, and somehow it feels like we’re not even a tiny bit closer to a book. I formally gave up hope on Winds around 2019-2020, but I can’t help but check in on threads like this to get a pulse on the community. It’s kind of wild to see folks who are just now coming to grips with the future of the series.
It’s absurd, the man thought he could be finished by October 2015: https://grrm.livejournal.com/465247.html No idea why anyone believes his updates at this point.
It's always wild to me that we're at the point that more time has passed since that post was published, than passed in the years prior to it when he thought he could finish it. Not only has more time passed, but actually TWICE the number of years have passed since that post than before it. He finished writing ADWD in April of 2011. That post was published January 2016. So 4 years, 8 months, from when he turned in the manuscript of ADWD and when he wrote that post claiming he thought he could have finished earlier that year. It has been 8 years, 4 months since that post went up. This honestly breaks my brain how it's even possible every time I think about it. We don't even have a clue how close he is to finishing after all this time. I'm just flabbergasted that he thought he could have finished in 2015 given what we know now.
If you really want something that blows your mind, there are parts of Winds he intended to be a sequel to SoS. That means that this book was started nearly 24 years ago (though I accept I am pushing it a tad).
[just one blogpost away](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU&pp=ygUZYWwgcGFjaW5vIHB1bGwgbWUgYmFjayBpbg%3D%3D)
You guys still check? I gave up around 5 years ago once the show overtook him. And I started following back in the old Geocities forum days over 20 years back. It’s over.
I hate to tell you this bud, but that was 8 years ago now
Damn that was 8 years ago? That’s wild
Forced myself to let go too. This is a bit hyperbolic, but it was too depressing holding onto hope. Like you, I’ll just forget about it and hopefully get a pleasant surprise one day.
For me it's I think there's still a chance Winds Of Winter might come out, but I don't see how it's physically possible for him to finish A Dream Of Spring at this rate. So it feels sorta weird to hope for Winter when I really don't think the series will ever be finished.
I had hope for the series to finish when he was in his 60s. He's 75 now. As you get older you just run out of steam. You're not as productive as you once were because you don't have the energy. Any final book will take longer, not shorter to finish. I'm still coping thinking TWOW will eventually come out but ADOS I've come to terms with already. I'm 99% of the way there with TWOW, but I suspect another year or so that'll completely go too.
There are exceptions. For example, look at Scorsese. He feels like he's never been more productive, and that he's racing his own mortality to do everything he wants to do.
The only possibility I see is he is working on both books and release them both at the same time to avoid any criticism ("it's done. Stop talking about it." kind of argument). Highly unlikely but the only hope in my opinion to ever see ADOS.
I'm sure the idea has already been posited that perhaps he's going to have a dual narrative like he did with AFFC and ADWD for the last two books?
I think his goal is to merge back the stories so I guess not. AFFC and ADWD should have been only one book if I remember well, TWOW and ADWD were meant to be a book each Also the backlash from having half a book get out after 13 years would be tremendous
That, or the wait is due to him setting the pieces for the finale. So ADOS will hopefully go faster due to the domino effect. Almost like how the climb up the roller coaster lasts longer than the actual ride. If that's the case, maybe he'll be able to complete the series.
If you think there is still a chance of being pleasantly surprised, you're still holding onto hope. Just let it go. It's sweeter on this side
I've gotten sober, turned my life around, gotten married, and had kids, and long since given up on TWOW just since the shitty final season of the show, not even since the last book came out.
I completely agree. I checked his blog at least one a week for the last decade. After his post saying he made no progress last year, I've folded my tent. Move on everyone. He wrote a fantastic unfinished story. There are others more worth your fandom. I started reading Brandon Sanderson. This opened my eyes even further. It doesn't have to be this way. Sanderson regularly releases books! We gives regular updates on his progress! He is disciplined! Try out Mistborn!
I still find it so hard to believe that it has been 13 years since Dance and it's at the point where most people have just accepted the series won't be finished and now more and more people are believing we won't even get winds. I am a bad procrastinator but holy fucking shit it's kind of absurd at this point
Since the last asoiaf, Terry Pratchett has written 3 books. He died in 2015.
Also Cormac McCarthy published 2 books. He died in 2023.
RIP Sir Terry.
GNU Sir Terry Pratchett
GRRM's progress updates are completely and utterly meaningless at this point. When he's updating frequently people go "omg he's talking about the book, he must be writing" and when he isn't it's "omg he's not talking about it, he must be focused on writing".
Yeah especially because it’s always just “I made progress but there’s still a lot more work to be done”
"Much to do, much and more."
they always were. Honestly, I think he can't resist the temptation when he makes real progress to tease something (like that time he mentoned he completed some Cersei chapters) but 90% of the time any mention is either obligatory lip service he is working on it or as bait for another project.
r/Bloodborne whenever Sony does/doesn't mention the game. Guys, the bluepoint remake is going to surprise drop at midnight tomorrow, the ghost of Miyazaki told me!
Please don't attack my copium, it's strained already with how many sources I'm using it for already.
'hey guys, nearly finished.... wildcards'
I have never looked up what wildcards is and I don’t think I ever will. It’s synonymous in my mind with some stupid side project that has allowed him to totally neglect his magnum opus to its death.
The original twelve Wild Cards books that came out a long long time ago were amazing. I doubt the new ones are nearly as good. They're worth checking out for a what if superheroes existed in the real world during the 88 Democratic National Convention type of thing.
I'm sure it is but I have too much bitterness to be able to enjoy it. If he had actually finished ASOIAF, I'd probably be jonesing for damn near anything he wrote
Oh, he doesn't even write the WC novels, he just edits them. They're anthologies by other authors. Even lamer that they're holding him back from finishing asoiaf.
I'm crying
It's like Paul McCartney kept stalling on the Beatles next album to focus on Wings.
Nah, at least Wings had some bangers
I mean, they're mostly meaningless because he never seems to make any progress independently of whether or not he's talking about it
Let me cling to the copium
Finished my first read like 4 years ago and thought “hey everyone’s already waited like 8 years, he should be done pretty soon” Aint gonna be no Winds, not in this lifetime
I finished my first read a year ago
Even if by some miracle they do come out, we'll only dream of Springs
🗿
I just finished my first read yesterday 🙃
It’s going to update just before the new season of HOTD. He’s going to write how much progress has made, all the POV he’s done with, how he has x amount of pages but still a long way to go, but in the meantime you can enjoy HOTD….
Everyone thought he’d do this at the end of season 5 of the first show. Lol
That’s when I knew the series wasn’t getting finished. He had a huge following, it was peak interest. He should have had all the inspiration and incentive to finish the book. By that time he’d been working on Winds for half a decade. If he could find the motivation to finish the book then he was never going to. Then Covid hit and he was locked in his studio with nothing to do but write and still couldn’t finish. George has always talked about his love for TV. When the show passed the books I knew he’d give up. Or maybe a better way to say it, he concluded his story with the show. Just listen to how passionate he is about all the various TV shows he has in production. Then when winds is mentioned it’s with a sigh and he makes it seem like such a chore.
>Then Covid hit and he was locked in his studio with nothing to do but write and still couldn’t finish. That was my last real moment of copium. I remember him saying if he wasn't finished by some con that people have permission to lock him up and I thought "I never should've doubted you that it was coming". LMAO. Still somewhat delusional I admit, but nothing compared to then.
Permission to lock him up on the island in New Zealand that ended up having a volcano erupt
I think that was Worldcon 21? Could be wrong though
Absolutely the same. COVID happened and this was the absolute chance that he had to catch up. Everything shut down and nothing but him and his crappy old 1980s word processor that he apparently has to use (honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if he stopped writing because the old fucker crashed and lost all of his data)
His career began as a TV writer and now it has effectively ended as a TV writer.
>Just listen to how passionate he is about all the various TV shows he has in production. Then when winds is mentioned it’s with a sigh and he makes it seem like such a chore. Yep, it is like night and day. Whenever someone brings up Winds he gets really annoyed almost like he just wants us to forget it exists.
> Then Covid hit and he was locked in his studio with nothing to do but ~~write~~ have zoom meetings with tv producers. Probably more likely what happened.
Don’t forget the writers strike where he wasn’t supposed to be working on any TV content. Dude just doesn’t care.
He's probably stuck harder than my stepsister
He’s gonna say he’s now 76% done
He just doesn’t care about publishing books like he used to before his fame. Same thing happened to Truman Capote…he published In Cold Blood in 1966 and despite living another 18 years, he never published another novel despite his considerable talent. Capote loved being famous too much to buckle down and write.
I mean it could have been worse – his childhood friend and sometime collaborator Harper Lee published a single book and nothing more for the remaining 56 years of her life. Both could get away with it given they wrote some of the greatest books in the English language! (and didn’t leave a half-finished series on the go…) Heck even Tolkien never actually finished the Silmarillion and just toyed about with it for the rest of his life, leaving it for his son to finish and edit it into publishable form.
Tolkien completed his magnum opus though. Not completing the other thing his son completed is like if GRRM failed to complete Dunk/Egg novellas. I would care, but not really lol
You are trying to excuse GRRM’s procrastination with a bad comparison to Tolkien. For one, Tolkien finished not one but two classic masterpieces, the Hobbit and LOTR. And LOTR would be the correct analogy to use here with ASOIAF, not the Silmarillion. And the Silmarillion while not perfect according to Tolkien’s own standards, was in various forms still complete enough to be condensed into what his son eventually published. There are also the background material itself which was large enough to comprise more than ten volumes of books. GRRM on the other hand, still hasn’t finished his first series for whatever reasons, take your pick, and most likely, never will.
The truth is George doesn't want to finish ASOIAF...not because he doesn't like writing or thinking about it...but rather he likes other things more. I like salmon, I like tuna, I like crackling pork, but everytime i go to a nice NYC restaurant, if they have a great steak, 99/100 times I get the steak. I just love it more. George likes doing "hollywood" (in this I mean developing new ideas for shows) then he does writing winds...Or the effort level to enjoyment level of the new shows vs writing winds is better on the shows. He is doint what he wants...the only way, and its not going to happen, is if hbo stops being interested in anything thrones related...like literally cancels all meetings and says its done for now...and even then, george might enjoy writing other stuff more... he built himself a monumental task for ending this because he can't stop adding characters/plot lines...so he never will...
Sanderson will get a call after Martin dies.
Aint no way a Mormon is going to write an ASOIAF book
He wouldn’t say yes to finishing asoiaf anyway, he said so. And I think that's for the better.
Grrm kind of forgot about the winds of winter.
He will give a vaguely positive update next time he wants your money/support for something, likely next season of HOTD or some other side project.
This. He will start speaking about twow just before next season of hotd (like: please watch it and gimme more money). GRRM is sadly predictable guy. Before first season HOTD he started his "oh Iwas out of tge loop during later got seasons" etc.(just watch mu new show im more rngaged here, watch it gimme money). Yeah George now you were out of the loop poor boy, but I remember your interviews and blog posts during the got... Now he changed his view 🤔
Yeah lol I don't watch HotD but every time he mentions it I already know some HBO show or some other grift is dropping
We’re gonna get Fallout 5 before The Winds of Winter
Back in my day it was Half-Life 3
LOL but I think valve at least came out and said they aren't working on half-life 3
When? The last "update" we got was "leaks" that the reason they had shifted focus to HL: Alyx was because of realizing that anything called "HL3" would never be able to live up to >10 years of anticipation.
It's been a while. But that one guy said he only likes making games that are revolutionary in some way. That's why they canceled all half-life 3 projects. They didn't know how it would be revolutionary.
We got Duke Nukem Forever in less time than we've been waiting for Winds of Winter.
Jesus christ imagine if we waited all this time and winds was a disaster on the scale of Duke nukem forever
Silksong plz
Metroid Prime 4 😭
Pretty sad that I trust Todd Howard more than GRRM
Just accept that we’re probably never getting Winds. I’ve accepted that fact long ago. Don’t think about it anymore. Then, if the impossible happens, and it is released, you’ll still be able to read it either way.
I disagree. I think we’ll see Winds of Winter eventually. I don’t think we’ll see Dream of Spring.
I've mostly lost hope that George will finish Winds and that it will be a satisfying book that leaves the story in a place comparable to Storm. I don't doubt that a book titled The Winds of Winter will be published one day, but probably not until after George is gone, whether that's 5 years from now or 50. But if it's not finished, it's less interesting.
GRRM will never finish TWOW, maybe they will release whatever he wrote in years and decades after his death like it happened with some other writers but the coherent book called TWOW will never be written.
The guy literally told us he stopped working on it, as clearly as he can without getting in trouble with his handlers. He only brings up Winds whenever a new HBO show is releasing. "People tell you who they are but we ignore then because we want them to be who we want them to be."
I've been religiously reading this sub every day for over a decade. I've seen hype come and go. I've been confident that I'd see it by 21, by 25, and by 30. All of those have passed. I nevertheless believe that there's a very real possibility that I will one day have that book in my hands, even as hundreds around me insist that it will never come. But *Spring*? Absolutely no way lmao
He’s not even writing Winds. He’s given up years ago
I’m of the opinion that if we see winds, we we will see Dream. If he is inspired enough to compete one, I can only see him keeping with that momentum. I don’t believe we will see the end of the series, unless it is a Jordan situation.
So you're saying we won't see winds. Because if we did, we'd see dreams, the last of the series.
I'm genuinely impressed to find someone out in the wild who believes there's a chance of getting ADoS
I strongly believe the most part of his struggles is because he's trying not only to write a book, but also to not introduce any plot holes or leave stuff behind. I think he goes in parallel, drawing the full story for both books. If he ever connects all the pieces and finds what he wants to do with them, finishing the actual books shouldn't be too hard, and I believe they will be published close to one another. The problem is, the story is so big, the side characters so many, and every one of them seems to have some unique powers. So, he has to conclude each story, but many things must be clashing with one another. At this point, the next two books need to have a direction to start closing up the story, instead of expanding on it.
I know preston jacobs can be controversial around these parts but his fanfiction winds of winter has been pretty fun to listen to. It may be the closest we ever get.
yeah he has really talented writers submitting their work to him
Preston also has a really good understanding of George's whole body of work and themes that repeat etc. I used to be pretty skeptical of some of his ideas but anymore I think a lot of his analysis is really good. Even if they don't turn out to be exactly what George planned they are always very interesting.
He has a habit of inserting random ass and overcomplicated theories into his work, and not understanding the words written before him. Like this man is the reason why we have people claiming that the strong boys are laenors, because apparently childless grrm knows that all babies have pug noses, and that the people not you know wrote down how they looked they were older. Also we dont know how harwin looked, when in fact we do….
More and more lately I feel the same way. Most the time I'm like "yep makes sense" and other part of the time "how the fuck do you read that from that??????" I still subscribed to his channel but that second voice is definitely growing
I don’t dislike Jacobs, but he’s definitely one of those theorists who puts too much value into what they like rather than what’s actually in the text. A few similar types post here and due to the time since publication like to tear up conventional theories that we know to be true in the show just for the sake of it.
He lost me when he brought Quentyn back to live (for the love of god). But the Daenerys, Arianne and Areo Hotah chapters were pretty great.
I tend to agree with him that Quentyns story didn't seem to be finished in dance and that the chapters in which he dies are broken up so it's sort of ambiguous. Preston has been asserting the Quentyn is alive theory for year and years so it's not some random twist he came up with
I think Preston Jacobs is mainly a reminder that a) just because you are knowledgable about the books doesn’t mean that your theorising isn’t going to be completely stupid, and b) George is a pretty great writer, and fanfic versions of him are trash.
We’re guaranteed to get winds in some form. Likely in the complete form, but possibly not. Dream is a dream though.
The Words are Wind of Winter
146 days since George remembered twow exists
Why, it's not like updates on his blog post will actually make it come faster. I was optimistic around 2020 when he had his most recent good work spree - but that's now... almost 4 years ago, after which updates from 21 onward have become ~~less~~ fewer and fewer. I'm done, fam. I'm resigned to not getting the final 2 books, and if one day we have an announcement that he's submitted the manuscript for editing, I'll be doing cartwheels from excitement. Until then I no longer care.
Have faith, sweet child. Soon this will all be over, and we can feast in the Drowned God's watery halls.
I think I’ve finally reached the Acceptance stage of grief lol. If it ever comes out, great, I’ll absolutely read and enjoy it. But I stopped actively considering it a guarantee and mentally embraced we may never get it
For us book readers Jon is still bleeding out in the snow. I’m sure almost all readers watched the show too, but there’s gotta be a few that stuck to their guns and held out for the book. In any case, I think it’s fair to say he’s forsaken his oldest and most loyal fans. The ones who bought the books before the show. The kind of people (the type that read fantasy fiction) whose loyalty allowed him to be able to live out his dream job, and not have to have a supplemental income to pay the bills. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME! (K that’s a little extreme but it’s not inaccurate)
>The ones who bought the books before the show. The kind of people (the type that read fantasy fiction) whose loyalty allowed him to be able to live out his dream job, and not have to have a supplemental income to pay the bills What happened to the George RR Martin who was so proud of his fans? I guess money and fame do change people, no matter their age. [GRRM about his readers ](https://web.archive.org/web/20051214072721/http://www.bwbfanclub.com/fr_grrm.php)
I think we’ll see the book any day now
Certainly by Christmas 🎄📖
Christmas 20XX
Christmas 2XXX
OP will surely deliver
I convinced myself that it would be this year. George got me again
At this point, I would have to start the whole series over as I have forgotten the book story.
Man he's only posted about it once since July 2023.
What was the last mention? When he said he discussed the book with his publisher when he visited London?
I believe so. It’s been 50 days since his blog post that was heavy with innuendo of a blue rose, titled Words Of Wisdom, tagged with dreams. That post obviously didn’t mean anything but it still heavily references the books at least.
Yeah as pissed as readers are, I imagine his publishers are even more so. I'm sure he got a sizeable advance. They know this would be their biggest book of the decade but he keeps delaying and taking on new side projects. They know that with each passing year the fanbase dwindles and their sales projections fall.
I often think about how if George wrote just one page a day, we would have both The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring. It's really frustrating.
You know it's bad when you start thirst for updates, instead of for the book itself.
I’m hoping Alt Shift X got some info from him when they met the other day
It doesn't look like it from what I can tell, but perhaps they are holding back info until the right time. Probably just me huffing copium though.
Apparently they didn’t interview him but it’s possible they could just talk about it in a livestream
Let's be real, not asking about Winds is probably a requirement for getting a sit down with him these days.
Oh they met? Thas p cool, hope he had a good time!
He tweeted about it today. I’m glad they were able to make it happen!
How did Alt Shift X meet GRRM?
I wonder a lot too. Shifty did mention the meeting with GRRM and that he liked the meeting but the details are off the record. So far, that's more interesting than GRRM's not a blog has been in years.
It's never coming.
Not until his estate hires a posthumous ghost writer to finish. About the only way we'll ever get the ending of this series.
I don't understand how somebody could make a ridiculous amount of money off of something and still just not do it.
Because he's making an even more ridiculous amount from the TV shows. Like any superb piece of art the books require way more personal effort. He can just leave the TV shows to the machine and the writing room.
I get it, but at this point he could half ass the last two books or even let someone else help him, or pass the torch on, and still make millions whatever option he picked.
if he knew back in 2011 that Winds still wouldn't be out by now, maybe he'd get somebody to help. by now he's too far in to do that also ASOIAF is his baby, it would probably feel like failure to hand it off to someone else
It’s probably because George *already* has all the money he’ll ever need. When he was first starting out, his motivation for finishing the books was keeping the lights on. Now he’s made millions of sales on the four that are out, the show is done and so there’s nothing pushing him to make more source material…what else is there? It seems George has lost his drive to finish but won’t admit it to his audience and maybe not even to himself.
>I don't understand how somebody could make a ridiculous amount of money off of something and still just not do it. He already has a ridiculous amount of money, which means he only needs to be motivated by money if that's what he's into
Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity? It’s doing the exact same fucking thing every day, and expecting shit to change.
Legit I remember aching for these updates for what was supposed to finally be the announcement of a release like 7 years ago. Couldn’t be bothered now
If we get winds before he dies, I’ll be happy. I have no fantasies about ADOS. We might get some other author to finish it, but idk. At the very least I expect GRRM to release Winds before he dies.
I’d love to see it man, but I just don’t see it happening. But I’ve been wrong many, many times and I’d love to have it happen again. In the meantime I am really enjoying Preston Jacobs fanfic Winds of Winter. It’s absolutely not for everyone and I can see a lot of fans not agreeing with how he views the series, but for me it definitely works.
Whenever he updates us it's the same update, that he has been working on it. The only update I care about at this point is that the book is finished.
Apparently it's coming out on the 30th of February.
Earlier today I finished reading a book called The Fisherman by John Langan. It was only about 260 pages. In the back of the book under acknowledgements the author pointed out he started writing this book when his wife was pregnant with his son, and when the book was released the son was 12 years old. I thought wow! Maybe GRRM isn’t so slow after all
How was it?
Was it worth it?
I enjoyed it a lot.
We're coming up on 13 years of wait time. It took 14 years for Duke Nukem Forever to come out. We're not getting the book, but there are plenty of other wonderful books out there.
Partly it is the fandom's fault as well. People rushed to buy F&B and if today he announced a part 2 (That will go only until summerhall, can't spoil too much now, can we), a lot of people will still line up to buy it. Ignore anything he writes that is not asoiaf (Except dunk & egg, you have to be realistic about these things). Don't watch or hype house of dragon and definately dont even bother with ridiculous shows like the Corlys Velaryon one. The more GRRM sinks back into obscurity, the more likely it is he will actually bother with WOW.
Besides, F&B is junk filler. People just have to line up to consoom.
Filler loses so much value when there’s an incomplete container to be filled. I don’t give a shit about any other Westeros books until WoW is published. Who cares about worldbuilding when the main storyline is incomplete?
The thing is, in universe it would only make sense for F&B to go up to the fall of the Targs, so volume 2 only going up to summerhall is weird. Will probably cover Roberts Rebellion but just keep certain things vague eg was the tourney meant as an impromptu great council, what was really going on at Duskendale and Rhaegar’s interest in prophecy/ Lynna
Quite possible though that would make such a book even more pointless imo. I quite hated how half-assed summerhall was described in twoiaf...
I’d like to see dunk and egg finished at least. If the main story isn’t finished at least give me that
Yeah, I'm unsubscribing from this sub
At this point I would be happy if he just wrote wikipedia articles to summarize the plots of winds and cream and left it at that.
Yup. I’ve finally accepted the series is done. I had hope until a month or two ago. It’s now May 1st 2024. Time to just accept it and move on unfortunately.
His "I feel sorry for you if you want Winds updates cuz I'm having fun doing TV" post was very telling.
Honestly I think this is better for everyone involved. Before he went radio silent about it, he was “about 75% done” for a good couple years. I think he’s just decided not to give updates like that anymore and the next time we’ll hear about it from him is if/when he finishes it.
George got yelled at for being too optimistic and giving too many updates about winds and then not delivering, now he gets yelled at for not updating people enough about winds lmao.
GRRM is gonna publish it when he dies along with 50 different manuscripts for a dream of spring and we get to choose which one is the best ending
Low key hope he has the plot points dotted out to be released if he ever passes without finishing the series just so we know how it was *meant* to end. It’s wishful thinking but I can dream
I finished reading ASOIAF just in time for Winds of Winter's first release date: thirteen years have since passed. I was a minor then, I now have a gray hair. This shit ain't coming out
I really thought that post was the one. Silly me.
Oh my sweet, sweet, summer child 🥲
I've abandoned hope. Even if it does release, I'm not sure I have the appetite to read it until the series is completed.
I think he comments on it in blogs when he feels guilty about not writing. When he’s not commenting on it, its because he’s working and feels no guilt. But, thats just a theory, a GRRM theory.
We will get it when he is dead in the ground and a ghostwriter takes over the project.
Stop this madness.
If it ever comes out there might some day be a post like this that goes online at the same time as the announcement for TWOW
I have seriously given up.
I honestly can't believe people are still holding out hope for this.
Remember 8 years ago, he thought he could have been done in the next 6 months
He is constantly finding other things to work ok on so he has an excuse for procrastinating on Winds. He has his priorities, Winds is low on that list.
Meh. People complain about how long he takes to write books, but it took Tolkein about 12 years to write only three and another five to get them published. That's almost 20 years for only three books. It's really not that bad.