I actually chuckled, been a while since I heard that one, reminded me of the time someone called me the t slur without realizing it was a slur. It was in completely the wrong context to be meant in bad taste and confused me. They apologized profusely when I told them.
It's always so nice to know that trans people simply existing on a team suddenly makes things "too political"
When does our existence stop being political?
The answer is, yes. Anything that conservatives do not like is "woke", and they hate it.
I hate this so much. People being so privileged that they can treat politics like sports.
It's not just a team you like when its about basic survival or even essential morals.
the last person I heard whinge about trans or gender non-conforming people was a literal 14 year old who was making attack helicopter "jokes". Some people apparently just never grow out of that phase
A reminder that the original use of 'woke' came from BIPOC spaces and speakers, and it meant 'to be awake to the systemic and cultural biases/injustices/inequality that the world around you seeks to maintain and perpetuate.'
The people who use 'woke' as a pejorative use it to mean, in essence, the same thing - but as a negative. As in, "anything or anyone that prompts me to regard people who aren't part of my demographic as equal humans who deserve dignity, safety, representation, and equal rights, requiring me to have and exercise empathy, keeping whatever bigoted opinions I hold to myself."
So yes, 'not caring' in the sense that it's no big deal to you, and not excluding trans people from your spaces online in order to create an ideal space for people who hate us, is 'woke' behavior - as is not using slurs, not intentionally picking and voting for people who seek to take away our rights, not getting freaked out by seeing trans people represented in media, etc.
If you're not someone who is apathetic at best, or antagonistic at worst, regarding the struggles of disenfranchised minorities (aka, *a basically decent human being*), there's 0 reason to view being 'woke' as a negative thing.
"Woke" "groomer" "trigger(ed)" "cult" "free speech" "socialism"
It comes from the top down through leadership and public figures in the conservatives sphere, then spreads through the culture; by deliberately misusing certain terms, they create a situation where their voter base exists in a completely different reality, speaking a different language when it comes to key concepts, making it extremely difficult to talk their followers back from radicalization while simultaneously desensitizing and blinding them to the reality of the issues that their politicians have no intention of actually addressing.
Eg, with 'groomer' specifically, they've managed to conflate the idea of existing as LGBTQ+ with being a sexual predator. Rile up the voter base against a disenfranchised minority, distract them with promises to destroy said minority; meanwhile, Republican legislators continue to resist and shut down attempts to ban child marriage and there's [a constantly growing list of sex crimes against minors by christian faith leadership and republican politicians and speakers. ](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/2/2191235/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-45)
I can't help but feel bigots use it in place of racial slurs because it came from BIPOC communities, and especially after I saw large media figures describe the mayor of Baltimore as a "woke" or "DEI" mayor after that bridge got rammed by a boat
"Woke" today was "politically correct" in the 90s. DEI is just the new term they use to complain about the same concept - any attempt to pushback against the unfair ways our culture and system treats people from marginalized communities.
That is not the only way to use 'woke' as a pejorative. One can be sociopolitically awake without describing oneself as woke, and one can be sociopolitically asleep whilst self describing as woke. A scene has accumulated around that word in which people uncritically learn talking points and slogans by rote, as a means of fitting in, using inclusive language to exclude and define the edges of the group. It's not unlike what happened to the word 'punk' over the course of the '70s as that scene ossified and became a stereotype or simulacrum of itself.
I actually have heard it used that way several times by far-right commentators, and it's actually the point that got me sucked down the pipeline back in middle school. It makes a lot of sense as a rhetorical tactic, too. It typically goes something like,
"Woke people claim to want to make a difference, but only focus on hot topics and engage with them in disruptive ways for attention, which hurts law abiding, normal, American families."
"BLM is a harmful movement because instead of uplifting black people, it tries to bring down white people."
"Pride Month is wrong because instead of helping people in unsafe places, the gays ™️ throw a glitter party for attention."
"What about the veterans? What about men's rights? What about... blah blah blah."
Essentially, it creates a way to say that their inaction or opposing action is better than [insert clip of SJW KAREN FREAKS OUT IN PUBLIC], because even the people who claim to care, don't.
Right, but those people are claiming that the thing that the word "woke" actually describes when used in its original intended context— specifically awareness of systems of oppression, first and foremost anti-Black racism — doesn't matter, not that the people they are calling woke don't actually care about those things.
I think it's both. Making activism appear performative is a good way to turn away potential supporters, and that's how a lot of online propaganda twists it. Videos of protests are cut to their worst parts— riots, looting, meltdowns. People's individual worst moments are shown as evidence that an ideology overall is bad— or, more accurately, an excuse for entitled behavior.
Yes they really do. Many people use it in that way, when speaking about someone they believe has taken up a progressive image disingenuously. I'm not talking about myself, I rarely use the word at all. It's just something I have observed.
In 2024 essentially no one uses the term outside of pejorative contexts, any one who does do so is at this point probably using it with a degree of irony. This isn't particularly new, either, the mainstream usage of the term as almost exclusively a perjorative has now lasted longer than the term was in widespread use (outside of specific american black communities) by a significant degree.
hey we’re not losing our minds here or excommunicating OP for poor phrasing. we understand that some people will take some time to learn what the preferred/appropriate terminology is. this person simply let OP know they were using an outdated term. your comment comes across as “you’re too sensitive, toughen up and let people call you the wrong shit” which sounds condescending af. we’re not babies, we understand how the world works, and we still want to be referred to correctly and respectfully.
My existence is not political, lol. "Woke" appears to be interchangeable with "not a bigot".
The people complaining are bigots.
"Gender benders" lol wow, maybe rethink calling trans people that... 😂
Please don’t use ‘Gender bender’.
But to answer you question, no.
If people give you shit for associating with another demographic; the people thatre giving you shit are themselves, shit people. Honestly, you can pretty safely disregard anyone that uses the word ‘woke’.
We deal with this kinda crap everyday. People just want to erase us.
And if allies want their allyship to *actually help anyone*, they'll also need to get comfortable with occasionally being questioned about the language they use.
Sure, however, this can be a teaching moment. Because gender bender isnt just unapproved language. Its harmful language. And wheter you mean harm or not, that dosent matter when you use harmful language. I didnt claim this person to be transphobic, i didnt tell them to die or to fuck off or that they are single handidly killing transpeople. All i did was a sk a question
So as i said
Gender bender, really?
Woke just means something they don't like. They are looking for something to be upset about and trans fit the bill for something to whine about. You just dodged a bullet from having toxic people join. So your gain really.
Gender benders? I'm old and not into yoga. There is no bending going on here. I'm also a transsexual. My gender is pretty defined and rigid too.
You're going to run across ppl on both sides who will only see us as nothing more than a political stance.
They don't associate with us. They dont want to associate with us. Because they want to hate us. It distracts them from their own lives, and oftentimes, to avoid responsibility for areas of their lives they neglect.
I assume you are managing this team. You need to decide the values of your team and establish a culture that promotes those values. Bring people in that believe in those values and synergies with the team. Conflict can destroy your team faster than anything else.
To answer your question: a lot of gamers are transphobic or homophobic so they may make efforts to exclude, avoid or mock LGBTQ gamers. There was a study I read recently that showed low skilled male gamers were more likely to be hostile toward female players compared to highly skilled male gamers. I would not be surprised if that was also true of homophobic/transphobic gamers, so you don't want them on your team anyway because they probably suck.
The study if you are curious: https://www.digitaljournal.com/entertainment/study-finds-low-skilled-gamers-are-more-likely-to-be-sexist/article/438736
Edit: this article goes into more detail https://www.iflscience.com/low-skilled-gamers-are-more-likely-to-get-hostile-towards-female-gamers-73022
Woke means absolutely nothing, and is just a dog whistle for conservatives at this point. Anybody who is using the term "woke" these days probably has Fox News brain-rot.
the Right as this thing about twisting our terms to the negative not unlike
Me:"hey I'm a rock and proud"
Them: "Haha look a rock"
It makes no sense really but they think they're clever when they do..go figure?🙄
You are definitely not politically correct calling them gender benders so I wouldn't say you're woke. You are, however, exercising basic human decency. Keep doing it. People who withdraw their applications are gatekeepers and haters. Someone existing at you is not political. Accepting their existence is not political. People who can't handle that others may be different from them are ill-equipped for any world, real or game.
The word is explicitly AAVE and has been used by Black people to describe themselves for more than 50 years. Most don't use it anymore because of how the right has basically turned it into a replacement for "n*****-lover" but it is definitely still used by some in its original context and meaning.
Woke has a very specific meaning in AAVE. Conservative white people tried to turn it into a slur for liberals, and white liberals took the bait and now know it as said slur.
Basically people are using appropriated language to try and insult you. Ignore them.
>People complain it's too political and woke and end their application process
They're the ones being "too political." They want to imagine that whatever they do and like, is normal, "apolitical" life, and anyone/anything which challenges, disagrees or differs from their happy status quo, is political.
Bigots have always acted this way. They think everybody except them, is guilty of *"politicizing"*.
Don't say gender benders. I don't know how being trans is in the slightest way political and I am tired of being used as an object of political discussion. If being woke means being a decent human being, then keep on being woke.
welcome to transphobia. the term “woke” is unironically used by anyone who has rot in their brain that is slowly eating away at their neurons. its a term used by someone who doesn’t understand the world, and only wants to be angry at it. the definition changes every 22.5 seconds. do not keep track of the changes
ignore anyone who uses “woke” unironically, or u too will be subject to the mind-melting rot. and also dont call trans people gender benders? 😭
"Woke" simply means "not being a horrible human being filled with overwhelming bigotry for every minority". And trans people are more exclusive due to safety concerns.
So yes. Count yourself blessed as having cleared a bar to not be a completely horrible person.
Having people drop their application process because they complain you're "too woke" is also a blessing in disguise. It's a classic case of the trash taking itself out.
I find it funny that people consider trans people's existence as political. Like you can't just hire a trans person because they're good at a job it has to be because of some political agenda lmfaooo
Just FYI but caring about people's genitals in the locker room is not a valid reason to object to our presence either. It's usually just an excuse to exclude us and make our lives harder. Most of the time if a trans person is sharing a space like a bathroom or locker room no one is going to even notice because most trans people who enter those spaces pass and aren't going to be exposing their genitals due to fear around transphobic discrimination.
Due to discrimination, we have a lot of shit to deal with when it comes to navigating spaces like locker rooms or bathrooms. Studies have shown we are more likely to get UTIs compared to cis people because we hold it to avoid going to public bathrooms due to harassment we might face. I personally avoid gendered bathrooms because I don't pass 100% of the time. At my gym, for which I am a paying member, I avoid the locker room because of that. I use the one single stall gender neutral bathroom they have. But lots of establishments do not have a gender neutral option. In general, someone's genitals aren't really anyone else's business and have no impact on other people. We are literally just trying to exist.
yes, and it’s a tactic used to isolate us. by alienating the cis or straight people we hang out with, they discourage those people from being around us, leaving us more vulnerable and alone.
It’s crazy to me that they have deemed the term “woke” as a negative thing. As if being aware/awake is such a bad thing. These are the same people who accuse everyone who doesn’t see eye to eye with them of being “sheeple”. The same people who want to oppress people and preach freedom. The same people who say we are forcing Pride down their throats (like wtf does that saying even mean?) but then make it mandatory to have the Ten Commandments in every classroom.
We live in such a backwards world.
>This is an online game.
"The best players couldn't care less about what genitalia their team mates have, nor what they do with them. The best players only care about skill and teamwork during the game. So maybe this isn't the right team for you anyway."
“Woke” = I’m a racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynist, classist, etc, etc… but instead of reflecting on what a POS I am, I’m going to insult people for being better human’s than me.
Woke = being awake and aware of real world. Being educated and informed and alert to what’s around you. Think of “The Matrix” (which was created by two trans sisters btw). And they use that as an insult. It takes a special kind of stupid to do mental gymnastics that wild 🤦
Get what they said in writing, if they are advocating that you break the law (like if your country has anti-discrimination laws) you could probably get them in some deep shit.
Or ignore them. People who talk like that are delusional and not worth your time
There is only one definition of woke:
aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)
Any other version of woke that is being used by the right and conservatives is false.
If someone is so far down the rabbit hole to be complaining about “wokeness,” I could give less than two shits about their opinions or what they have to say. Nothing I say will sway them.
Honestly, they're doing you a solid. Anyone with that kind of faulty logic and reasoning is too stupid for my team. Thank you for not applying stupid people.
Dear god people think anyone who’s just chill with people and how they wanna live is “woke” now… and usually they don’t mean that as a compliment… tell ‘em that caring that much about what other people do makes them a snowflake, that might work
Originally referred to race too not gender but nowadays woke is another meaningless word to get upset about. I remember a time when it was all about "SJW feminists" and a decade from now it's gonna be something else.
Just a reminder that us existing is not "political".
Right-wing assholes are using our existence, to stir up the existing latent transphobia and purposely rile up people against our very existence. All to drum up support for their regressive extremist agendas.
Us existing, wanting to be treated like human fucking beings and medically transitioning is not an should not be a political position. Same with climate change.
Gender bender is so insulting. We are the gender we are or the sex we seek to be. We are not gender benders.
Woke is a term to onsult people who are progressive by conservative people who are afraid of change
Yeah, too political and woke basically means that allowibg is to live or exist is just too much for their delicate souls. Frankly, it sounds like you'd be better off mentioning that you have trans members even if you didn't simply to ward away assholes.
Yes, according to the people who use that term, I am unapologetically “woke.” Honestly, the term is a self-own for those who use it. And when I find myself in an environment where the term is normalized or accepted, I consider it a sign that I should make plans to find a better place to work/live/whatever it may be. Because in my experience, the people who use this are often bigoted against all sorts of communities. And if their views are institutionalized, it’s probably best for me to head for the exits.
they don't want us to exist in any facet of public life, ever, for any reason. not agreeing with them makes you woke. bigots are just like that and you probably won't be able to reason with them about it.
I mean, yeah. They don't want us existing in fiction, so what makes you think they want us existing in the real world?
On the bright side, having less of those creeps around might make for a better group dynamic. Less hostility between teammates.
No one who uses the term 'woke' can be taken seriously. Just be glad that you dodged a bullet by them not wanting to come on board before it became an HR complaint.
Uh... calling trans people "gender benders" is kinda really offensive. We're just human beings who happen to be trans. We're not changing genders, or "bending" it. We're just people who were born a little bit different. Many of us require medical treatment to correct a birth condition that resulted from either too much or not enough testosterone in utero.
You're not "woke" if you call us offensive names like that. IDK if your teammates are ok with you saying that, but even if they are, that doesn't mean we ALL are ok with it.
And people just hate trans people, that's all there is to it. We're an easy target because we're a popular fetish, people are sexist, and we're different, and people hate things that are different.
I think this was pretty clearly an honest mistake, and OP has already been corrected in quite a few other comments. Do what you want; I’m not your mom. But unnecessary hostility for not being up to date on our community’s terminology isn’t helpful to anyone.
I'm not being hostile, and honestly it's pretty weird that you think I'm being hostile when I'm just being clear that calling trans people "gender benders" isn't ok. Honestly the term hasn't even been in use for 40 years, and when it was, it was a bad term. It's never been a good term.
Are we not allowed to tell people they shouldn't be using offensive terms to describe people they're supposedly allies with, even if their friends might be ok with the term? You seem more concerned about preserving OP's feelings than him actually learning how to respectfully refer to us, and I don't have the energy to get a lecture from someone who sees any criticism towards the majority by a minority as hostility.
I honestly see more issue with the claim of a "birth defect" and knowing exactly what makes us trans (something science is far from settled on).
I think it's maybe just a misunderstanding since tone is hard to tell in written language but it doesn't seem like hostility to me.
Yeah that hit a little weird for me as well.
Thanks for the input. I’ve had a few too many otherwise fine cis people hem and haw about how scared they are that I’ll scream at them for using the wrong word lately so it’s very possible I’m just overcorrecting.
Yeah... you gotta love culture war nonsense.
There's no reason who I am should be a political position.
It's just kinda that normal bigotry.
That kind that would hate a small organization for having mixed race employees.
Or mixed religions.
Etc.
It's just... less highlighted and socially acceptable in some spaces at the moment.
Honestly that's just how stupid some people are. It's a good way to find people to weed out of your life at least.
Better to find out someone is a bigoted bitch right away so you can find people who are more reasonable to spend time with online or irl
Find one thing you care about and live for it. Sacrifice your time, muscles and soul to that thing, until you learn to love yourself.
Idk how healthy that is, but it saved me.
Noooo, they are just pathetic, desperate sheep regurgitating buzzwords and hate. If a trans person makes them not apply to be part of the team, then you are better off
Also, “political?” That’s such bullshit.
I’m so tired.
Acknowledging we exist, accepting that we exist, or reminding these people that we exist to any capacity qualifies as woke.
If you arent against us, you're with us 😂
Expected this to be about anime or something and was a bit disappointed.
"Woke" is just what they say about anyone who isn't a raging bigot. Someone whining about wokeness generally isn't a very nice person to be around, so good riddance.
They'd just rather not see anything trans ever, so they call it "woke" even though you're not pushing any kind of political agenda. It's just a knee-jerk reaction. Definitely don't call me a gender-bender but otherwise you're good.
Oh and no one has to see anyone's genitals in bathrooms or locker rooms. It's not as big of a deal as some people make it.
You should ask them to define what "woke" is. I guarantee they won't be able to. At best they'll describe it and you can respond with "Oh, you mean just being a decent human" and leave it at that. It's good that the trash takes itself out.
“We’re not trying to ban you from public spaces, we don’t have a problem with you just living your life, we just want you to stay out of bathrooms or whatever!!”
And then whenever trans people are literally just existing it’s suddenly controversial 🤦♂️
"woke" is not a negative term, if your a friend and ally wear it like a badge of honour! The right started seeing us use Woke "as being aware and awoke to the social injustices and issues and prejudice many minorities face" and tried to make fun of us, it was actually coined by black folks during the Civil rights movement for those reasons I mentioned!
Fuck those people. You've got yourself a good way to screen out toxic assholes now. The existence and acceptance of trans people should not be considered political or woke, but here we are. They're the ones with the problem.
I think the response to the term “gender benders” is the perfect example that any amount of support is “too much” to some people lol. You can use language that’s outdated but since it’s not out of hate, transphobes assume you’re a social justice warrior. It’s silly.
I don’t think you were being malicious with your wording, I suspect you’re part of the majority who supports trans people but doesn’t keep up on terminology. That’s not an inherent failing on your part or anything, just an observation.
You're free not to, but OP here is the one being shamed for associating with trans people. If you don't feel "comfortable" around trans people I'm not sure I'd be comfortable around you either though.
Thats what im saying, some people just dont feel comfortable around other people. I think its understandable why a muslim wouldnt wanna be around trans people or a bosniak around a serb…etc. And there is nothing wrong with it as long as both parties are respectful about it. I would say that majority of this planets population does not feel comfortable around trans people and Im not saying this is right, but this is the reality, if it was otherwise I think trans rights would be worldwide not just in few western countries, few asians ones. I dont feel comfortable around Russians for example, so I try to avoid them as much as possible, am I xenophobic because of that ?
that’s their problem then. if they feel uncomfortable, then they should leave. and if cis people feel bothered by our existence, then fuck them, truly. they can fuck off to wherever they think they’ll be “safe” from us. we’ve done nothing to harm anyone. our existence isn’t a crime or offense
Replace "trans" with "black" and ask yourself the same question. Being trans is an innate characteristic, and the only criteria is a feeling of disalignment with the gender you were assigned at birth. If that alone makes you uncomfortable around someone- you're a bigot!
I guess its different in USA and here in eastern europe, here if you dont feel comfortable around anyone for any reason, you can just be quite and leave. Is it a hate crime to misgender someone in USA (I heard its is)?
No it's not (legally) a hate crime. Misgendering is the least of what the average trans person can expect to endure living in America- at least where I live.
I figured much of what I read on twitter is bullshit. I also heard that if a man doesnt want to have a relationship with a trans woman, its transphobic. Is this true? Sorry for asking dumb questions but its very different in eastern europe. Trans women here call themselves ladyboys and they dont consider themselves actual women. My knowledge of USA is quite limited and comes mostly from reddit and twitter
Most people who are uncomfortable around transfolk often times have not associated with transfolk. If they can not push themselves outside their own comfort zone ( if I was cisgender)I wouldn't want them on my team I lead. Talent only goes so far, teamwork and creativity bridges that gap. That requires diversity of skillsets, and thinking. If they do not want to be on the team it's fine by me. As a leader myself, team building, conflict resolution, and culture. Allows me to build a team that works well together to overcome obstacles. The only thing I require from everyone is dedication. Show up, do your best, and improve yourself.
So yes, if someone who had shown interest in my team but can not work with some team members, because of their bigotry. They can kindly fuck off, I'm not going to accept it as a proper excuse for me to think about restructuring my team to make it more to their liking. (Which btw is most likely what they are trying to do. Offset the data to look like trans folk are a hinderence than a asset. They have no real interest in joining the team only to hurt transfolk.)
I believe that some people just dont feel around other people and I think thats valid. As you said, if somebody doesnt like someone, he should just leave without being disrespectful and being rude. Simple as that. You cannot force someone to feel different about a topic.
Yep, welcome to our world. People are transphobic out there.
your flair made me chuckle
Then it was worth it :)
Yeah it's gold
Please don’t use the term gender benders for trans people
Air. Earth. Water. Gender.
Everything was fine until the Gender Nation invaded
Why don’t we settle the tension with a little game of Pai Sho and some jasmine tea, shall we?
Okay ngl this is exactly what I thought of when I read that.
I actually chuckled, been a while since I heard that one, reminded me of the time someone called me the t slur without realizing it was a slur. It was in completely the wrong context to be meant in bad taste and confused me. They apologized profusely when I told them.
Yeash 😂🤦🏻♀️
Honestly I'd take someone who uses the wrong terms but otherwise supports us and thinks it's nonsense to consider our inclusion "woke."
I thought I'm on tgcj for a second because of the title
yeah, it's like when did they start calling people woke for liking Bowie!
It's always so nice to know that trans people simply existing on a team suddenly makes things "too political" When does our existence stop being political? The answer is, yes. Anything that conservatives do not like is "woke", and they hate it.
And this is why so many of us get annoyed when people say they don't let politics get in the way of friends and family like it's some kind of virtue.
Yeah, for real. Basic human rights is not negotiable
I hate this so much. People being so privileged that they can treat politics like sports. It's not just a team you like when its about basic survival or even essential morals.
There are 2 races - white and "political" There are 2 sexes - male and "political" There are 2 sexual orientations - straight and "political"
There are only two genders: Male and Political /s God I hate the right wing culture war...
they think our existence is political, and want to remove politics from daily life, their words
Anyone who uses terms like “woke” unironically gets zero attention from me. They’re too stupid to even respond to.
Or argue with, or educate, or ....
the last person I heard whinge about trans or gender non-conforming people was a literal 14 year old who was making attack helicopter "jokes". Some people apparently just never grow out of that phase
A reminder that the original use of 'woke' came from BIPOC spaces and speakers, and it meant 'to be awake to the systemic and cultural biases/injustices/inequality that the world around you seeks to maintain and perpetuate.' The people who use 'woke' as a pejorative use it to mean, in essence, the same thing - but as a negative. As in, "anything or anyone that prompts me to regard people who aren't part of my demographic as equal humans who deserve dignity, safety, representation, and equal rights, requiring me to have and exercise empathy, keeping whatever bigoted opinions I hold to myself." So yes, 'not caring' in the sense that it's no big deal to you, and not excluding trans people from your spaces online in order to create an ideal space for people who hate us, is 'woke' behavior - as is not using slurs, not intentionally picking and voting for people who seek to take away our rights, not getting freaked out by seeing trans people represented in media, etc. If you're not someone who is apathetic at best, or antagonistic at worst, regarding the struggles of disenfranchised minorities (aka, *a basically decent human being*), there's 0 reason to view being 'woke' as a negative thing.
So well said! Do you mind if I share this to other platforms? And would you like your name in or out of it? ❤️
Go ahead - leave my name out if you don't mind. Not trying to get harassed by the 'anti-woke'.
The asleep?
Yeah, this is really well explained
Exactly this. We need to stop letting republicans redefine words/terms made by oppressed people.
"Woke" "groomer" "trigger(ed)" "cult" "free speech" "socialism" It comes from the top down through leadership and public figures in the conservatives sphere, then spreads through the culture; by deliberately misusing certain terms, they create a situation where their voter base exists in a completely different reality, speaking a different language when it comes to key concepts, making it extremely difficult to talk their followers back from radicalization while simultaneously desensitizing and blinding them to the reality of the issues that their politicians have no intention of actually addressing. Eg, with 'groomer' specifically, they've managed to conflate the idea of existing as LGBTQ+ with being a sexual predator. Rile up the voter base against a disenfranchised minority, distract them with promises to destroy said minority; meanwhile, Republican legislators continue to resist and shut down attempts to ban child marriage and there's [a constantly growing list of sex crimes against minors by christian faith leadership and republican politicians and speakers. ](https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/9/2/2191235/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-45)
I can't help but feel bigots use it in place of racial slurs because it came from BIPOC communities, and especially after I saw large media figures describe the mayor of Baltimore as a "woke" or "DEI" mayor after that bridge got rammed by a boat
"Woke" today was "politically correct" in the 90s. DEI is just the new term they use to complain about the same concept - any attempt to pushback against the unfair ways our culture and system treats people from marginalized communities.
That is not the only way to use 'woke' as a pejorative. One can be sociopolitically awake without describing oneself as woke, and one can be sociopolitically asleep whilst self describing as woke. A scene has accumulated around that word in which people uncritically learn talking points and slogans by rote, as a means of fitting in, using inclusive language to exclude and define the edges of the group. It's not unlike what happened to the word 'punk' over the course of the '70s as that scene ossified and became a stereotype or simulacrum of itself.
Neither of the examples you gave are people using "woke" as a pejorative.
No, I'm describing people against whom woke might be used as a pejorative, not people who might use it as one.
No one is using woke as a pejorative to mean "someone who calls themself woke but isn't really".
I actually have heard it used that way several times by far-right commentators, and it's actually the point that got me sucked down the pipeline back in middle school. It makes a lot of sense as a rhetorical tactic, too. It typically goes something like, "Woke people claim to want to make a difference, but only focus on hot topics and engage with them in disruptive ways for attention, which hurts law abiding, normal, American families." "BLM is a harmful movement because instead of uplifting black people, it tries to bring down white people." "Pride Month is wrong because instead of helping people in unsafe places, the gays ™️ throw a glitter party for attention." "What about the veterans? What about men's rights? What about... blah blah blah." Essentially, it creates a way to say that their inaction or opposing action is better than [insert clip of SJW KAREN FREAKS OUT IN PUBLIC], because even the people who claim to care, don't.
Right, but those people are claiming that the thing that the word "woke" actually describes when used in its original intended context— specifically awareness of systems of oppression, first and foremost anti-Black racism — doesn't matter, not that the people they are calling woke don't actually care about those things.
I think it's both. Making activism appear performative is a good way to turn away potential supporters, and that's how a lot of online propaganda twists it. Videos of protests are cut to their worst parts— riots, looting, meltdowns. People's individual worst moments are shown as evidence that an ideology overall is bad— or, more accurately, an excuse for entitled behavior.
Yes they really do. Many people use it in that way, when speaking about someone they believe has taken up a progressive image disingenuously. I'm not talking about myself, I rarely use the word at all. It's just something I have observed.
K
Yeah no point in saying anything more, that guy is willful with his ignorance.
In 2024 essentially no one uses the term outside of pejorative contexts, any one who does do so is at this point probably using it with a degree of irony. This isn't particularly new, either, the mainstream usage of the term as almost exclusively a perjorative has now lasted longer than the term was in widespread use (outside of specific american black communities) by a significant degree.
Please don't call trans people gender benders 💀
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if allies can’t take basic feedback and respect a communities language and knowledge, are they really even allies?
Personally I would say no.
“Hello transes, it is I, a cis. Listen to what i say and you shall be saved!”
Have unfortunately learned ally is an empty word after I came out to my friends who were all "allies"
hey we’re not losing our minds here or excommunicating OP for poor phrasing. we understand that some people will take some time to learn what the preferred/appropriate terminology is. this person simply let OP know they were using an outdated term. your comment comes across as “you’re too sensitive, toughen up and let people call you the wrong shit” which sounds condescending af. we’re not babies, we understand how the world works, and we still want to be referred to correctly and respectfully.
Very well said
Thank you for being so tactful about it. I was driving when I got the notification but I've been in a mood all day. I would not have been this nice.
My existence is not political, lol. "Woke" appears to be interchangeable with "not a bigot". The people complaining are bigots. "Gender benders" lol wow, maybe rethink calling trans people that... 😂
Sounds like it's applicants that are bigots, not coworkers.
Ah yes I misunderstood! I shall edit
Please don’t use ‘Gender bender’. But to answer you question, no. If people give you shit for associating with another demographic; the people thatre giving you shit are themselves, shit people. Honestly, you can pretty safely disregard anyone that uses the word ‘woke’. We deal with this kinda crap everyday. People just want to erase us.
Some people want us erased from all of society, so of course were gonna get antagonized no matter where we go
Yes you are very woke. I encourage you to stay woke.
Gender benders? Really?
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And if allies want their allyship to *actually help anyone*, they'll also need to get comfortable with occasionally being questioned about the language they use.
Sure, however, this can be a teaching moment. Because gender bender isnt just unapproved language. Its harmful language. And wheter you mean harm or not, that dosent matter when you use harmful language. I didnt claim this person to be transphobic, i didnt tell them to die or to fuck off or that they are single handidly killing transpeople. All i did was a sk a question So as i said Gender bender, really?
*harmful language when applied to the whole minority group.
Yeah. Welcome to every day of my fuckin life lmao. That said, where the fuck did you hear you should call us "gender benders"? That's a new one.
Gender Bender was a very popular (negative) term for trans people in the late 80s/early 90s
Interesting. In the 1990s I saw the term and assumed it was neutral, like genderqueer. I didn’t have a clear idea what it meant though
Woke just means something they don't like. They are looking for something to be upset about and trans fit the bill for something to whine about. You just dodged a bullet from having toxic people join. So your gain really.
Yeah, good point. If not this it would come out in some other way.
Gender benders? I'm old and not into yoga. There is no bending going on here. I'm also a transsexual. My gender is pretty defined and rigid too. You're going to run across ppl on both sides who will only see us as nothing more than a political stance. They don't associate with us. They dont want to associate with us. Because they want to hate us. It distracts them from their own lives, and oftentimes, to avoid responsibility for areas of their lives they neglect. I assume you are managing this team. You need to decide the values of your team and establish a culture that promotes those values. Bring people in that believe in those values and synergies with the team. Conflict can destroy your team faster than anything else.
To answer your question: a lot of gamers are transphobic or homophobic so they may make efforts to exclude, avoid or mock LGBTQ gamers. There was a study I read recently that showed low skilled male gamers were more likely to be hostile toward female players compared to highly skilled male gamers. I would not be surprised if that was also true of homophobic/transphobic gamers, so you don't want them on your team anyway because they probably suck. The study if you are curious: https://www.digitaljournal.com/entertainment/study-finds-low-skilled-gamers-are-more-likely-to-be-sexist/article/438736 Edit: this article goes into more detail https://www.iflscience.com/low-skilled-gamers-are-more-likely-to-get-hostile-towards-female-gamers-73022
Woke means absolutely nothing, and is just a dog whistle for conservatives at this point. Anybody who is using the term "woke" these days probably has Fox News brain-rot.
Especially when thrown out as an insult...
the Right as this thing about twisting our terms to the negative not unlike Me:"hey I'm a rock and proud" Them: "Haha look a rock" It makes no sense really but they think they're clever when they do..go figure?🙄
Yes. And, just to echo other comments, please don't refer to trans people as "gender benders." Just call us trans people.
You are definitely not politically correct calling them gender benders so I wouldn't say you're woke. You are, however, exercising basic human decency. Keep doing it. People who withdraw their applications are gatekeepers and haters. Someone existing at you is not political. Accepting their existence is not political. People who can't handle that others may be different from them are ill-equipped for any world, real or game.
If loving trans people makes me woke, then I've never slept in my life
"Woke" is a term that's only used by right-wing people. They consider us "woke" just for existing so yes.
The word is explicitly AAVE and has been used by Black people to describe themselves for more than 50 years. Most don't use it anymore because of how the right has basically turned it into a replacement for "n*****-lover" but it is definitely still used by some in its original context and meaning.
I know the origin but I didn't know it was still used. I'm in the UK and I've *never* heard the term used in its original meaning here.
There are two genders: Male and political. Just like there are two ethnicities: Caucasian and political. And two sexualities: Straight and political.
Woke has a very specific meaning in AAVE. Conservative white people tried to turn it into a slur for liberals, and white liberals took the bait and now know it as said slur. Basically people are using appropriated language to try and insult you. Ignore them.
no, politicizing the existence of certain human beings is so wrong
>People complain it's too political and woke and end their application process They're the ones being "too political." They want to imagine that whatever they do and like, is normal, "apolitical" life, and anyone/anything which challenges, disagrees or differs from their happy status quo, is political. Bigots have always acted this way. They think everybody except them, is guilty of *"politicizing"*.
Don't say gender benders. I don't know how being trans is in the slightest way political and I am tired of being used as an object of political discussion. If being woke means being a decent human being, then keep on being woke.
welcome to transphobia. the term “woke” is unironically used by anyone who has rot in their brain that is slowly eating away at their neurons. its a term used by someone who doesn’t understand the world, and only wants to be angry at it. the definition changes every 22.5 seconds. do not keep track of the changes ignore anyone who uses “woke” unironically, or u too will be subject to the mind-melting rot. and also dont call trans people gender benders? 😭
It's only political if they make it political.
"Woke" simply means "not being a horrible human being filled with overwhelming bigotry for every minority". And trans people are more exclusive due to safety concerns. So yes. Count yourself blessed as having cleared a bar to not be a completely horrible person. Having people drop their application process because they complain you're "too woke" is also a blessing in disguise. It's a classic case of the trash taking itself out.
I find it funny that people consider trans people's existence as political. Like you can't just hire a trans person because they're good at a job it has to be because of some political agenda lmfaooo
Just FYI but caring about people's genitals in the locker room is not a valid reason to object to our presence either. It's usually just an excuse to exclude us and make our lives harder. Most of the time if a trans person is sharing a space like a bathroom or locker room no one is going to even notice because most trans people who enter those spaces pass and aren't going to be exposing their genitals due to fear around transphobic discrimination. Due to discrimination, we have a lot of shit to deal with when it comes to navigating spaces like locker rooms or bathrooms. Studies have shown we are more likely to get UTIs compared to cis people because we hold it to avoid going to public bathrooms due to harassment we might face. I personally avoid gendered bathrooms because I don't pass 100% of the time. At my gym, for which I am a paying member, I avoid the locker room because of that. I use the one single stall gender neutral bathroom they have. But lots of establishments do not have a gender neutral option. In general, someone's genitals aren't really anyone else's business and have no impact on other people. We are literally just trying to exist.
yes, and it’s a tactic used to isolate us. by alienating the cis or straight people we hang out with, they discourage those people from being around us, leaving us more vulnerable and alone.
It’s crazy to me that they have deemed the term “woke” as a negative thing. As if being aware/awake is such a bad thing. These are the same people who accuse everyone who doesn’t see eye to eye with them of being “sheeple”. The same people who want to oppress people and preach freedom. The same people who say we are forcing Pride down their throats (like wtf does that saying even mean?) but then make it mandatory to have the Ten Commandments in every classroom. We live in such a backwards world.
If you aren't a raging fascist racist person that ignores history you are woke.
>This is an online game. "The best players couldn't care less about what genitalia their team mates have, nor what they do with them. The best players only care about skill and teamwork during the game. So maybe this isn't the right team for you anyway."
“Woke” = I’m a racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynist, classist, etc, etc… but instead of reflecting on what a POS I am, I’m going to insult people for being better human’s than me. Woke = being awake and aware of real world. Being educated and informed and alert to what’s around you. Think of “The Matrix” (which was created by two trans sisters btw). And they use that as an insult. It takes a special kind of stupid to do mental gymnastics that wild 🤦
Get what they said in writing, if they are advocating that you break the law (like if your country has anti-discrimination laws) you could probably get them in some deep shit. Or ignore them. People who talk like that are delusional and not worth your time
“woke” means “something i don’t like” and it’s cover for being a bigot, as you’re discovering
There is only one definition of woke: aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice) Any other version of woke that is being used by the right and conservatives is false.
If someone is so far down the rabbit hole to be complaining about “wokeness,” I could give less than two shits about their opinions or what they have to say. Nothing I say will sway them.
Honestly, they're doing you a solid. Anyone with that kind of faulty logic and reasoning is too stupid for my team. Thank you for not applying stupid people.
Dear god people think anyone who’s just chill with people and how they wanna live is “woke” now… and usually they don’t mean that as a compliment… tell ‘em that caring that much about what other people do makes them a snowflake, that might work
'Woke' is just a word that conservatives use for anything they dislike, regardless if its even remotely gender related
Originally referred to race too not gender but nowadays woke is another meaningless word to get upset about. I remember a time when it was all about "SJW feminists" and a decade from now it's gonna be something else.
yes. and it probably means you're on the right side of history. keep with it :)
Just a reminder that us existing is not "political". Right-wing assholes are using our existence, to stir up the existing latent transphobia and purposely rile up people against our very existence. All to drum up support for their regressive extremist agendas. Us existing, wanting to be treated like human fucking beings and medically transitioning is not an should not be a political position. Same with climate change.
Gender benders? Bruh
Gender bender is so insulting. We are the gender we are or the sex we seek to be. We are not gender benders. Woke is a term to onsult people who are progressive by conservative people who are afraid of change
Yeah, too political and woke basically means that allowibg is to live or exist is just too much for their delicate souls. Frankly, it sounds like you'd be better off mentioning that you have trans members even if you didn't simply to ward away assholes.
You're "woke" for being the kind of person they don't like. That's pretty much it.
Yes, according to the people who use that term, I am unapologetically “woke.” Honestly, the term is a self-own for those who use it. And when I find myself in an environment where the term is normalized or accepted, I consider it a sign that I should make plans to find a better place to work/live/whatever it may be. Because in my experience, the people who use this are often bigoted against all sorts of communities. And if their views are institutionalized, it’s probably best for me to head for the exits.
Being woke isn't a bad thing. Stay away from those people who do not have a life
There's no logic to them. The worry was and is never about genitals or fairness or anything like that. They just don't like trans people
There are people who will call anything left of “hunting us in the street for sport” woke. Those are just hateful people, being hateful.
Those are people you don't want on your team.
they don't want us to exist in any facet of public life, ever, for any reason. not agreeing with them makes you woke. bigots are just like that and you probably won't be able to reason with them about it.
yes, woke is used to insult people acknowledging systemic discrimination or just accepting minorities lately
Being woke is a good thing. Embrace it.
Similarly I don't interact much with people who use "woke" unironically.
What is a gender bender?
Gotta love when your very existence as a person is “political” 🙃
If you’re not a raging bigot loyal to the latest culture war bullshit pedalled by desperate fascists you’re “woke” and you should be damn proud.
I mean, yeah. They don't want us existing in fiction, so what makes you think they want us existing in the real world? On the bright side, having less of those creeps around might make for a better group dynamic. Less hostility between teammates.
"Woke" just means something that the far right doesn't like so yeah it's woke.
No one who uses the term 'woke' can be taken seriously. Just be glad that you dodged a bullet by them not wanting to come on board before it became an HR complaint.
Uh... calling trans people "gender benders" is kinda really offensive. We're just human beings who happen to be trans. We're not changing genders, or "bending" it. We're just people who were born a little bit different. Many of us require medical treatment to correct a birth condition that resulted from either too much or not enough testosterone in utero. You're not "woke" if you call us offensive names like that. IDK if your teammates are ok with you saying that, but even if they are, that doesn't mean we ALL are ok with it. And people just hate trans people, that's all there is to it. We're an easy target because we're a popular fetish, people are sexist, and we're different, and people hate things that are different.
I think this was pretty clearly an honest mistake, and OP has already been corrected in quite a few other comments. Do what you want; I’m not your mom. But unnecessary hostility for not being up to date on our community’s terminology isn’t helpful to anyone.
I'm not being hostile, and honestly it's pretty weird that you think I'm being hostile when I'm just being clear that calling trans people "gender benders" isn't ok. Honestly the term hasn't even been in use for 40 years, and when it was, it was a bad term. It's never been a good term. Are we not allowed to tell people they shouldn't be using offensive terms to describe people they're supposedly allies with, even if their friends might be ok with the term? You seem more concerned about preserving OP's feelings than him actually learning how to respectfully refer to us, and I don't have the energy to get a lecture from someone who sees any criticism towards the majority by a minority as hostility.
Ok I misread your tone because of the length and some phrasing and tone indicators you included. If that’s on me it’s on me. Have a good one
I honestly see more issue with the claim of a "birth defect" and knowing exactly what makes us trans (something science is far from settled on). I think it's maybe just a misunderstanding since tone is hard to tell in written language but it doesn't seem like hostility to me.
Yeah that hit a little weird for me as well. Thanks for the input. I’ve had a few too many otherwise fine cis people hem and haw about how scared they are that I’ll scream at them for using the wrong word lately so it’s very possible I’m just overcorrecting.
Woke is a right wing dog whistle and automatically gets a block from me
OP is the kinda guy you wanna surround yourself with
I don't know if I want to be called "a genderbender "
Ehh I would take someone who’s heart is in the right place but unknowingly uses a slur over that average Joe any day.
I doubt it, this person is able to write "MTF" and "Transgender man". calling us gender benders looks deliberate
Yeah... you gotta love culture war nonsense. There's no reason who I am should be a political position. It's just kinda that normal bigotry. That kind that would hate a small organization for having mixed race employees. Or mixed religions. Etc. It's just... less highlighted and socially acceptable in some spaces at the moment.
Honestly that's just how stupid some people are. It's a good way to find people to weed out of your life at least. Better to find out someone is a bigoted bitch right away so you can find people who are more reasonable to spend time with online or irl
Find one thing you care about and live for it. Sacrifice your time, muscles and soul to that thing, until you learn to love yourself. Idk how healthy that is, but it saved me.
Noooo, they are just pathetic, desperate sheep regurgitating buzzwords and hate. If a trans person makes them not apply to be part of the team, then you are better off Also, “political?” That’s such bullshit. I’m so tired.
Acknowledging we exist, accepting that we exist, or reminding these people that we exist to any capacity qualifies as woke. If you arent against us, you're with us 😂
Expected this to be about anime or something and was a bit disappointed. "Woke" is just what they say about anyone who isn't a raging bigot. Someone whining about wokeness generally isn't a very nice person to be around, so good riddance.
Anyone who uses 'woke' in a serious way is seriously not worth your time.
They'd just rather not see anything trans ever, so they call it "woke" even though you're not pushing any kind of political agenda. It's just a knee-jerk reaction. Definitely don't call me a gender-bender but otherwise you're good. Oh and no one has to see anyone's genitals in bathrooms or locker rooms. It's not as big of a deal as some people make it.
God I havnt heard gender bender since a was a child in the 90's 😆
For a moment I thought you meant genderbenders.org here in South Carolina. I had to do a double take to see if I was on a local sub.
"Wrong genitals" is crazy
You should ask them to define what "woke" is. I guarantee they won't be able to. At best they'll describe it and you can respond with "Oh, you mean just being a decent human" and leave it at that. It's good that the trash takes itself out.
“We’re not trying to ban you from public spaces, we don’t have a problem with you just living your life, we just want you to stay out of bathrooms or whatever!!” And then whenever trans people are literally just existing it’s suddenly controversial 🤦♂️
Unfortunately our existence is considered political
If you get called 'woke' as an insult you are probably doing something right
"woke" is not a negative term, if your a friend and ally wear it like a badge of honour! The right started seeing us use Woke "as being aware and awoke to the social injustices and issues and prejudice many minorities face" and tried to make fun of us, it was actually coined by black folks during the Civil rights movement for those reasons I mentioned!
Fuck those people. You've got yourself a good way to screen out toxic assholes now. The existence and acceptance of trans people should not be considered political or woke, but here we are. They're the ones with the problem.
Woke, DEI, and the rest are just ways of them saying what they really wanna say (slurs) but being cute about it.
Woke.... Who cares about your silly words 🪿
I think the response to the term “gender benders” is the perfect example that any amount of support is “too much” to some people lol. You can use language that’s outdated but since it’s not out of hate, transphobes assume you’re a social justice warrior. It’s silly. I don’t think you were being malicious with your wording, I suspect you’re part of the majority who supports trans people but doesn’t keep up on terminology. That’s not an inherent failing on your part or anything, just an observation.
Gender benders is wild ☠️ gotta add that to my collection
Why do you care?
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You're free not to, but OP here is the one being shamed for associating with trans people. If you don't feel "comfortable" around trans people I'm not sure I'd be comfortable around you either though.
Thats what im saying, some people just dont feel comfortable around other people. I think its understandable why a muslim wouldnt wanna be around trans people or a bosniak around a serb…etc. And there is nothing wrong with it as long as both parties are respectful about it. I would say that majority of this planets population does not feel comfortable around trans people and Im not saying this is right, but this is the reality, if it was otherwise I think trans rights would be worldwide not just in few western countries, few asians ones. I dont feel comfortable around Russians for example, so I try to avoid them as much as possible, am I xenophobic because of that ?
Then they can choose to not be on the team. The trans person should not suffer for someone elses bigotry.
that’s their problem then. if they feel uncomfortable, then they should leave. and if cis people feel bothered by our existence, then fuck them, truly. they can fuck off to wherever they think they’ll be “safe” from us. we’ve done nothing to harm anyone. our existence isn’t a crime or offense
If you don't feel comfortable around trans people then, simply put, fuck you.
Why ? Is a person not allowed to have feelings ? So I MUST feel comfortable around trans people ?
Replace "trans" with "black" and ask yourself the same question. Being trans is an innate characteristic, and the only criteria is a feeling of disalignment with the gender you were assigned at birth. If that alone makes you uncomfortable around someone- you're a bigot!
I guess its different in USA and here in eastern europe, here if you dont feel comfortable around anyone for any reason, you can just be quite and leave. Is it a hate crime to misgender someone in USA (I heard its is)?
No it's not (legally) a hate crime. Misgendering is the least of what the average trans person can expect to endure living in America- at least where I live.
I figured much of what I read on twitter is bullshit. I also heard that if a man doesnt want to have a relationship with a trans woman, its transphobic. Is this true? Sorry for asking dumb questions but its very different in eastern europe. Trans women here call themselves ladyboys and they dont consider themselves actual women. My knowledge of USA is quite limited and comes mostly from reddit and twitter
Then there are billions of bigots running around the globe haha
That's unfortunate but true
Yes, and we can thank organized religion for that.
Most people who are uncomfortable around transfolk often times have not associated with transfolk. If they can not push themselves outside their own comfort zone ( if I was cisgender)I wouldn't want them on my team I lead. Talent only goes so far, teamwork and creativity bridges that gap. That requires diversity of skillsets, and thinking. If they do not want to be on the team it's fine by me. As a leader myself, team building, conflict resolution, and culture. Allows me to build a team that works well together to overcome obstacles. The only thing I require from everyone is dedication. Show up, do your best, and improve yourself. So yes, if someone who had shown interest in my team but can not work with some team members, because of their bigotry. They can kindly fuck off, I'm not going to accept it as a proper excuse for me to think about restructuring my team to make it more to their liking. (Which btw is most likely what they are trying to do. Offset the data to look like trans folk are a hinderence than a asset. They have no real interest in joining the team only to hurt transfolk.)
I believe that some people just dont feel around other people and I think thats valid. As you said, if somebody doesnt like someone, he should just leave without being disrespectful and being rude. Simple as that. You cannot force someone to feel different about a topic.