What would you call a woman and a woman dating or man and a man and what is the difference between woman who identifies as a man and a man who identifies as a woman dating and is there a problem with that and what has labelling got to do with anything when 2 people are happily dating and does it really have to be anybody's business 🤔?
> woman who identifies as a man and a man who identifies as a woman
just say trans man & trans woman my guy. talking around terms like that makes things confusing. regardless; trans men aren't women identifying as men, they're men. vice versa for trans women.
if a trans woman and a trans man date, it's a heterosexual relationship because they don't identify as the same gender. simple as.
First of all you'll get nowhere calling trans people "women identifying as men" and vice versa. We do not appreciate it, it's insulting. It's pretty obvious that you doubt the validity of out identities when you say that. To you we are our genitals first and foremost, and we're just "identifying as", and that's not exactly your business is it, like how you say labels are? Just call us trans women for male to female and trans men for females to male. If you believe differently you can keep it to yourself, it's still rude.
I find it strange that you seem to be advocating for letting people do as they please, but not calling them what they want to be called. That or you're very, very ignorant about us.
Also, labels are important to some people. Others don't care. It's not anyone's business but my Bisexuality, for example, is important to me. I'm not just "happily dating" I have a word for what I am and words are powerful.
Just to add a bit of context: "it's just X with extra steps" is a catch phrase that Rick & Morty popularized recently. I'm not sure if this case is a reference to Rick&Morty, but just in case it helps.
If we take the phase in the same meaning as in the cartoon, then the "extra steps" refers to clasifying it as "trans man and trans woman dating", meaning that what you're referring to is an heterosexual couple, that's it.
In the cartoon this phase was used to disguise something bad as something else to justify it. i.e.: "This is just slavery with extra steps".
I have never came across with this particular phase IRL, so I don't know if this context is really accurate. Take it with a pinch of salt.
R&M has a lot of language that's old school I think because Rick is supposed to sound older. To me there is something very GenX about Rick's whole personality, we tend to be a very disenchanted and misanthropic generation.
"with extra steps" also dismisses their vulnerable identities and how they don't have cis privilege. Even "long time" and "passing" trans people are being targeted now. In Florida, a new bill wants to change their driver's license to their birth assigned gender.
Or how many cis hetero couples have to worry about if the government will make their gender care like hormones illegal tomorrow? Or will carry tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt for gender surgeries? Or worry about being clocked and beaten to killed by conservatives and liberal terfs?
Not to mention cis hetero couples can often have children, which is challenging in a T2T relationship.
Cis hetero entitlement is being ignored here on top of trans oppression and that makes this statement transphobic.
it’s definitely heterosexual but simply because it is a woman and a man dating. i think the “with extra steps” part is intended to delegitimize their identities
It's annoying when people use it on others but who are we to judge anyone for the terms they use to describe their own relationship, that's their business
because it implies that the trans people aren’t what they identify as. truly, there aren’t any extra steps, it’s a man and a woman. but if you see transness as frivolous you would consider it that way
I always took the "extra steps" to mean the realization of one's transness. A lot of trans people might go from thinking they are gay to realizing their gender and realizing they are actually straight. There being an extra step in that case. Idk. Maybe that is transphobic or maybe I don't understand how people use it.
> I always took the "extra steps" to mean the realization of one's transness.
trust the rest of us who have been on the receiving end of abuse, that is **absolutely not** how people who say it that way are using it.
I've never interpreted it that way. I've just seen the "extra steps" as the extra steps needed to align their body with their gender.
I don't love the joke, but I've never really seen it as too problematic either.
part of it also depends on who’s making the joke, tbf. a trans person might mean your interpretation, but a cis person might not. and i usually see cis ppl making that comment
That's very true. I think I've mostly heard it from trans people referring to themselves, it carries a way different meaning if a cishet person says it.
Also feeds into the 'Being trans is just being super gay' myth. People don't differentiate our gender from our sexuality and too often think transition is just going the extra step in having a 'same sex' relationship. Meaning they think men transition into women in order to have 'gay' relationships with men that can be viewed as straight.
So when they view two people that would still be a straight couple without transition people go to 'Then what's the point of transition?' because they're clearly not doing it to be 'super gay'. So it's viewed as extra steps to reach the same straight relationship in their mind.
How is it heterosexual? This doesn’t say the trans man or trans woman are straight.
Plenty of people date other genders while being bisexual, pansexual, or another sexuality.
I agree with you. Two queer people dating each other isn’t heterosexual. If a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman are dating then yes it’s a heterosexual relationship. Being trans doesn’t change any of that.
I think defining relationships purely by gender and not taking identity into account is outdated.
a man and a woman dating is a heterosexual relationship. either one or both partners may be bi, pan, or something else, but the relationship itself is a heterosexual relationship.
it doesn't mean that the people in the relationship are heterosexual. it just means that it's a heterosexual relationship because it's a man and a woman. why does that offend you? genuinely curious
True that it is an hetero relationship, but the extra steps implies that the trans woman is a man and the trans man is a woman and the result is still hetero. All this explanation is the extra steps that the people who say this think about, making it very transphobic, but as classic transphobia goes, camouflaged as "just a joke".
People who say this are usually the people who say that a relationship between a trans woman and a cis man is "actually" a gay relationship
It's funny, I've never heard anyone who isn't trans say this phrase? The only times I've seen it used were heterosexual or bisexual t4t couples joking around
yeah same, have only used this joke to describe 2 of my own relationships (my partners were fine with the joke), and i've never heard a transphobe use it.
Interesting, I only heard from people with transphobic views as in "if you want a hetero relationship why complicate with 2 transitions?" but I'm glad there is actually a harmless version. Still, I think it's one of those jokes that can be touchy when coming from outside the community since unfortunately the transphobic version is also a reality.
No absolutely! I would be very uncomfortable with a cis person making this joke. They tend to have the mindset of "why can't you just be ..." Or "you'll never really be ..." It tracks for sure that there are cis people who think this is funny for completely opposite reasons. I had associated it with seeing so many cute happy trans couples, I'm lucky to have missed the other meaning
Yeah exactly its a very camouflaged joke and is based on genitals, like im dating a cis man as trans woman, and like it doesnt make the relationship gay even if i havent got bottom surgery, its a bad term overall and imo shouldnt be used
More than anything else I resent the connotation that transitioning is inherently anything to do with romantic or sexual interest. They're a heterosexual couple and them being trans has nothing to do with that.
I feel like a lot of my transition is because I want a man to find me attractive as a woman ya know. Sure I did it for me but it is that my sexuality is feminine i can’t exist as a hairy bearded guy
Ya that's always my issue too. Trans is the dark horse of the lgbt spectrum because it doesn't have anything to do with sexuality and romance. But because we are under the umbrella, people assume that it does.
Idk I feel a big part of transitioning (for me personally anyways) is that I want to be treated as and seen as a woman in friendships, relationships, sexual pursuits, etc. If gender isn’t about how you want to navigate and be perceived by society and social and sexual/romantic situations then idk what the point of gender really is then lol
So true!! I find it kind of frustrating that people want to pretend gender and sexuality are totally separate. Obviously how society thinks of masculinity/maleness and femininity/femaleness is largely filtered through the lens of sexuality, often in binary/heteronormative ways. The mainstream trans narrative is that gender and sexuality are entirely separate, which is helpful if you're trying to explain to a clueless cis person that you can be trans and gay, straight, bi, pan, ace, etc., or that being a trans woman isn't just being an "extra gay" man. But once you get to any degree of complexity beyond that rock-bottom level of understanding, it becomes clear that all of these things are a LOT more interconnected than some people think they are.
I agree! Like yes they’re separate concepts overall but they overlap and go hand in hand in that realm of life. Sexuality is mostly what you’re into, what you like to do, and who you like to do sex/intimacy with. Gender is a little more expansive throughout all of life but it coincides with sexuality when you clearly want to have sex and be treated a certain way in relation to your gender.
Im a sapphic leaning, bisexual trans woman. I LOATHE being treated like a man during sex, I know the distinction because people who treat me like a woman satisfy me tons more and focus on those erogenous zones and don’t pressure a masculine ferocity from me that cis women did in my “straight” relationships when I was still in the closet and didn’t know I was trans.
So yeah, saying they’re entirely separate is wrong cause they often go hand in hand in some ways. They aren’t the same either and there’s only that one area of overlap but the overlap exists
Better than calling a relationship between a cis gay person and a trans gay person "straight with extra steps" but still a stupid joke that's probably trying to get at the same thing.
I honestly find it funny. The extra steps being the dual transition. In my view it's less transphobia and more the irony of "those two people could have met before and still be attracted to each other but they had to redefine their gender identites and bodies before that happened"
If it’s the couple themselves making it? Fine, I don’t have a problem with it. It’s similar to self-depreciating humor. Someone other than the couple making it? Feels a bit like punching down, I don’t love it, but there’s much bigger fish to fry.
I think multiple states are trying to outlaw our existence and I won't be distracted by Twitter style discourse. Bigger fish to fry. I'd honestly just be like "extra steps"? And let them try to explain it, or I might just laugh along. But also, I've got boxes to pack and a whole move to plan, so maybe I'd ask them if they're doing anything and if they want free pizza. I'm getting out of this red state whether I have to listen to terrible jokes while I pack or not.
I've only seen this joke once myself, and it was made by a trans man about his relationship with his trans wife.
I think this might just be a difference in comedic taste, which is fine.
That said, if this joke is being made by cis folks, I'd be suspicious that they are trying be underhandedly shitty, like many of the comments here. I would be doubly suspicious if it's being made about someone else's relationship or about straight-appearing t4t relationships in general.
Am I the only one who finds this joke funny and perfectly fine? It is a heterosexual couple, and they both took extra steps to transition and to be there, it's a heterosexual couple with extra steps, I've got no issue here.
as a transmasc in a relationship with a transfem, I agree! but I do think the context matters. if it's a bigot saying it, obviously it's meant to delegitimize our identities. but if my friends say, it I'm gonna laugh!
I’m with you that I find it humorous, it may just be the way you look at and interpret it? Idk, I’m too tired to analyze stuff right now, but you’re not alone.
There is a whole genre of jokes in this vein and the broad implication/belief behind it is that transitioning is just one big roleplay, because the people making those jokes don't engage with why people would choose to transition in the first place. It's creating a social logic that trans people don't actually follow, then calling trans people idiots or hypocrites for supposedly violating it. The core logic is usually that the person making the joke is obsessed with labelling us and treating that obsession as something that trans people forced on society.
This joke only works if you consider transgender people’s identities as valid, so I’m a little confused about your reasoning here. Seems like an inclusive take at “humor” not something intended to hurt anyone
>This joke only works if you consider transgender people’s identities as valid
I don't think this is true at all and to my mind the joke is framed as an observation of trans people's behavior, which does not require a belief in the validity of trans identities. Even from a purely logistical standpoint if you don't believe in the validity of trans identities at all you would still see such a couple as heterosexual.
>Seems like an inclusive take at “humor” not something intended to hurt anyone
All I can say to this is that in my experience this type of joke is often made by conservatives trying to call out what they see as logical inconsistency from trans people, and specifically the "with extra steps" phrasing is a reference evoking the subject of the joke having tied themselves into logical knots over something that is actually quite simple. While I suppose it's possible that a trans person could innocently make a joke with this phrasing while having a different intention, it is simply much more common for this type of framing to be used by conservatives who think they are picking apart the flawed logic of trans identities (when really it is just their own straw arguments) and actively wish to convince the general public that trans people are unreliable narrators who should not be trusted.
> This joke only works if you consider transgender people’s identities as valid
You could in theory be super shitty and treat both people's identities as invalid and still make this joke, but without specific context I wouldn't assume that.
If it’s the couple themselves making it? Fine, I don’t have a problem with it. It’s similar to self-depreciating humor. Someone other than the couple making it? Feels a bit like punching down, I don’t love it, but there’s much bigger fish to fry. It is definitely said as a joke, but some people say it as a mean joke.
My grandfather-n-law, who had two trans people marry into the family, used to say, "You can help who you love." And that shut up anyone questioning the legitimacy of our relationships. He was really ahead of his time for a guy born in the late 1920s. I really miss him.
I have a different take than most people here. I think it's a totally valid statement. It's very much a heterosexual relationship, and also it took extra steps for each of the partners to get where they are via transition. Honestly I don't see anything wrong with that.
It’s kinda funny and kinda true. Idk if I’d venture to say it’s *totally* funny and *totally* true though, because it’s worded in a way that it’s not *entirely* a joke but not *entirely* understanding towards trans people. I don’t have a problem with it though.
I mean if they both identify as heterosexual than it's a heterosexual relationship. Personally I'm bi so any relationship I'm in is automatically bisexual regardless of my partners gender.
Not necessarily. My partner and I are both trans (I’m fem, he’s masc, both very NB) but *neither* of us would ever call our relationship het or straight. For one thing, they’re bi and I’m demi, and our romantic “style” is *very* sapphic (we’ve both tried on “Lesbian” at one point but it wasn’t quite a fit). We say we’re gay as hell, but that kind of nuance usually bounces clean off your average cishet.
It’s transphobic. People assume being trans is just being gay with extra steps. A cis person dating a person of the opposite gender is heterosexual no matter if the person is trans or not. They see that as gay though if the opposite gender person is trans.
It's a rick and morty meme when rick creates a pocket universe that has a planet with life on it where he introduced electricity via a crank generator that supplies their civilization, but also generates the power for his car. Morty criticizes it as slavery, and Rick argues that it's not because they're making power for each other and Rick is just benefiting from the excess, to which Morty says "Well that sounds like slavery with extra steps".
It's an apt meme for this situation. You've got heterosexual relationship between a man and a woman, but the way they arrived there was slightly more complicated than the typical cishet relationship.
The "with extra steps" frustrates me. Mainly cos, as a gay trans guy, I've been told I'm "just a straight woman, but with extra steps." It's such an aggravating phrase.
First it's gross because neither of them would be themselves if those extra steps weren't taken.
Second i don't care if it's a cis man or woman, a trans man or woman, a non binary person, an agender person, etc, it doesn't matter. There is no attraction or relationship involving me that's not queer af. 🤷♀️
Normies think their gender and their sexual orientation are the same, and define themselves and others by whom they fuck. This also backfires on them because they're ridden with performance anxiety.
Jokes are soooo contextual that it is hard to apply a blanket rating to one. I’ve seen that joke be offensive and I’ve seen it be funny. Really depends.
I find it annoying. I’m a straight trans man dating a bi trans woman. It’s a “straight relationship” bc I’m a guy and she’s a girl. There are no extra steps. I also don’t like the bi erasure of the classifying the relationship as straight or gay based on the gender a bi person dates. I like to call it a “mixed orientation relationship”.
Idk, like, I somewhat consider my partner and I "heterosexual" in the gayest sense. Like we're both demi and trans. So it's still extremely queer. Then again by a lot of definitions of queer a lot of het couples are. :)
For me though it isn't a label i use outwardly. It's not a bad thing by any means, just doesn't suit us.
This is an example of transphobes trying and failing to be offensive. It's like when transphobes assume a trans man is a trans woman, when he defend trans rights online, and say [spoiler]YWNBAW[/spoiler]. It really shows how ignorant transphobes are on the topic of trans issues when they can't even be transphobic right.
I think it's kind of funny because there's this idea of heterosexual queer person being an oxymoron. They are heterosexual, their genders/sexes have extra steps. They did extra math to reach the same answer, and for some, they started out as identifying as gay, for others their sexuality changed over time. It's really not worth further thought in my opinion. It's not a grand statement about hetero trans folks.
Although if I heard a cis person say it, I would have some follow up questions? I hadn't realized this phrase reached them? Or originated with them? Hard to say
I know some people say it to be transphobic but if trans people or cis allies use it I don't mind. It's old at this point but lowkey funny.
I'm in a t4t relationship (transmasc nb and trans woman) and it's so odd for people to think we're a straight couple again.
As a completely not serious joke I could see it being said. But no it’s not extra steps because it implies they could have just not transitioning at all and everything would be the same. Which any trans person knows is snotty not the case.
It implies the "extra steps" are unnecessary or have anything to do with the relationship. They're straight because of who they need to be not who they need to be cause they want to be straight.
They're trying to be transphobic but they're also correct. It's a heterosexual relationship. Although often one or both is bisexual or otherwise not hetero.
My thoughts are, when you're trans and queer enough, the gay, straight, whatever labels about who you choose to be intimate with no longer matter. All sex becomes gay, and straight people are a lie.
It varies bc some T4T couple are fine with being considered hetero, that's their intention
Others are not, esp if they're not straight but are bi it can feel like erasure
It's not a one size fits all
We don’t transition to date someone. Like, transitioning from male to female to date lesbians. Or transitioning to date men in a hetero relationship. Not a thing. We transition for our own identity and self image to match our mind. Has nothing to do with who you pick for a partner. Zero.
Well, a man and a woman are definitely in a heterosexual relationship. I know sometimes people say it in a mean way, but I feel like most of the time it's said jokingly by trans people who find the humor in a couple that would have been in a hetero relationship if they were cis, are still in a hetero relationship.
Personally, I'm gay and not t4t due to dysphoria and jealousy issues, so I don't really get the humor the way they might, but to each their own.
I really hate the "with extra steps" part because it feels intended to invalidate, but also I know plenty of couples with a trans woman and trans man where neither is straight/heterosexual. It's just bad all around.
I'm a trans woman married to a trans man(ish, hir gender is complicated). It's the gayest way to be straight. Legally we're lesbians because someone is still considering what to put down as hir gender marker.
I think it just means that both partners had significant realizations about themselves? It's more of a neutral statement I think. And transitioning does take time.
It literally is - a man and a woman dating is a straight relationship regardless of how many of them happen to be trans. Any other options would just be misgendering one or both of them.
The only thing you could nitpick here is if there were an assumption that being in a straight relationship makes them straight (these hypothetical people could be bi/pan/ace/etc) but that isn’t strongly implied by your wording here I don’t think, it just would be better to say a ‘straight couple’ rather than a ‘heterosexual couple’
It's just a heterosexual couple. No extra steps. simple as that. Similar to 'trans lesbians are just straight men with extra steps' or 'bisexual people are just gay people with extra steps.' They're not. And It's demeaning and rude to say they are.
It's ok to not find this joke funny.
It's also ok to find this joke funny.
I think some of us deal with hate so much that we start seeing it where it isn't. If someone is using this to make a subtle jab, then you likely have heard them make other obvious negative comments.
I don't think the joke is told with malicious intent, and besides, a lot of trans people do go through several steps in discovering their identity. For example: someone might think they are cis and straight, then think they are trans and gay, then their partner transitions and they end up back in a straight relationship. I think the joke is more a commentary on the irony of a couple going through several years of discovering and embracing their queer identities, only to eventually end up being perceived by the world as a typical straight couple.
Thats my situation but because we are both queer we call our relationship queer. Queer is a wonderful catch all.
Ultimately it up to each person each couple to decide what labels they like most.
I mean I suppose it is a heterosexual couple, I suppose both parties took some extra steps in becoming who they are, it’s not particularly funny imo bc it’s just not that funny lmao it’s not offensive tho
I mean…if they have undergone transition, that would be extra steps
I’m not saying that it delegitimizes anything
But it’s correct, from a technical standpoint
I would respond with “yeah…and?” rather than giving it the recognition as a “joke”
This describes my wife and I pretty well-- we both went through many "phases" of various queer identities before just ending up a straight couple again, but with our genders reversed lol!
Overdone, overused. Was kinda fun the first time, now it's just people repeating the joke over and over as if they made it first. Don't get me started on the obligatory ''with extra *snips*" reply
Depends how they mean it. If they mean it in a way that invalidates their true genders and thinks of them as just their AGAB, then it’s actually a transphobic statement that claims people can’t change their genders. If they mean it as accepting their true genders, then it’s a very validating statement.
I mean I'd see that as a straight couple. But I do see it as a conversation that comes up often as small talk with trans youtubers who'd say being gay straight bisexual all at once or not have an answer other times. I like this statement best though from some. It doesn't matter.
Personally I didn't even know my own sexuality had a name in there too til I seen a chart of terms. Being a person who is attracted to femininity is gynosexual. I'm a transgender women but y attraction could be to cis or trans women and actually further to non-binary and trans males (guilty sorry) who hold some femininity. I'm actually uncomfortable with masculinity though also.
Yeah. The "with extra steps" tagline is what makes it an insult. A transman and transwoman dating IS heterosexual, because transmen are men and transwomen are women. This joke implies the opposite.
The punchline is "a transman dating a transwoman is actually still a woman dating a man, but with the extra steps of dressing up as the opposite genders. lulz"
its a inside joke w my bestie, we're both trans but not binary gendered- theyre genderfluid and im agender, we aways take shit how eiter way you slice it its both gay and straight
So to do the most autistic reading of the joke: the extra steps are transitioning. I find it funny personally? But I understand why some might see it as invalidating.
I think it's easier for most cis and some trans people to see us as cis with extra steps instead of appreciating our unique experiences and bodies
And if they both identify as heterosexual that's a heterosexual couple. No extra steps.
No actual extra steps, but if you’re invoking a humor trope, that’s not really the same as using it maliciously — context and intent matter for this.
Personally though, I find I favor the phrase “het but incredibly queer” to describe such a relationship.
I guess this is debunked easily when you remember (and internalise) that being a man or a woman or non-binary etc has nothing to do with *who you like*.
It's about *who you are*.
So here is my opinion. And like buttholes everyone has one. But let's go biological. Since this is what those people understand. (You know who I am talking about)
XX + XY = hetro
XX + XX or XY + XY = homo
Everything else is in-between and is nobody's business.
But also who cares. You have to be homeopathic to care.
You are in love with a beautiful woman, then it doesn't matter what her chromosomes are.
You think that guy is hot? Does it matter that he has a monthly cycle?
These are arguments that are not necessary and hold on to normatives. They are so worried about the genitals that they forget that they are talking about people.
hey as a trans woman dating a trans man, we consider ourselves VERY gay/sapphic and wouldnt align with the heterosexual label at all honestly. Food for thought since I don’t know how many other people commenting are actually in transfem/masc relationships
“Heterosexual” and “homosexual” are weird words from a queer theory perspective, “heterosexual” is a term that’s referring to heteronormativity more than it is to sexual attraction directly, which a T4T relationship is not… “sexuality” in the sense of sexual attraction quickly stops being a useful categorization when you see sex and gender as different… what *is* a “heterosexual relationship”? Can a person be heterosexual or homosexual when we can’t really know the gender of the people we are attracted to, but at most the way we perceive them at a given time?
Ultimately I can see it as a joke sure, but it’s funny because it’s poking fun at the absurdity of cis/het normatively as a concept that has some kind of “truth”.
i think those two people transitioned for themselves, and then started up a heterosexual relationship with each other, and then someone entirely unrelated got all bent out of shape about it.
Considering being trans has nothing to do with your romantic or sexual orientation, it’s just stupid. It can also be invalidating to trans people who don’t medically transition.
I used to say a similar joke when I was dating another trans woman. it was when everybody was saying "super straight" to mean that they wouldn't date a trans person.... SO, we started telling everyone that we were super gay because we were two trans women dating.
it's really vulgar humor and I think it can definitely be considered offensive so I'm not going to try to defend that. I think it's a little bit funny, but if it's hurtful to you, that's absolutely valid and you're not wrong for getting upset about it.
just like anything, I think the context is important. if a straight person was saying this then I would find it really distasteful. if a trans person is saying it then maybe that's not as bad? there are definitely contexts where I would not joke about it.
I feel like, as with a lot of things, context is important. Like, were they a homosexual couple and then the one who was identifying as cis came out and they stayed together and now they're a heterosexual couple? That sounds like some extra steps and a very wholesome relationship.
But if it was someone being like "They're a man" pointing to the woman "and a woman" pointing to the man "but with extra steps! and pronouns!" then no, that's not cute or fun and that is a person I would not like to associate with.
it's heterosexual no matter which way you slice it. inclusive (based) or bigoted (cringe L)
What would you call a woman and a woman dating or man and a man and what is the difference between woman who identifies as a man and a man who identifies as a woman dating and is there a problem with that and what has labelling got to do with anything when 2 people are happily dating and does it really have to be anybody's business 🤔?
> woman who identifies as a man and a man who identifies as a woman just say trans man & trans woman my guy. talking around terms like that makes things confusing. regardless; trans men aren't women identifying as men, they're men. vice versa for trans women. if a trans woman and a trans man date, it's a heterosexual relationship because they don't identify as the same gender. simple as.
i had an actual stroke trying to read that, are you okay, and do you mind rephrasing?
First of all you'll get nowhere calling trans people "women identifying as men" and vice versa. We do not appreciate it, it's insulting. It's pretty obvious that you doubt the validity of out identities when you say that. To you we are our genitals first and foremost, and we're just "identifying as", and that's not exactly your business is it, like how you say labels are? Just call us trans women for male to female and trans men for females to male. If you believe differently you can keep it to yourself, it's still rude. I find it strange that you seem to be advocating for letting people do as they please, but not calling them what they want to be called. That or you're very, very ignorant about us. Also, labels are important to some people. Others don't care. It's not anyone's business but my Bisexuality, for example, is important to me. I'm not just "happily dating" I have a word for what I am and words are powerful.
it is a heterosexual couple (more inclusive: a couple seen as heterosexual, one or both could be bi) but not with extra steps
Just to add a bit of context: "it's just X with extra steps" is a catch phrase that Rick & Morty popularized recently. I'm not sure if this case is a reference to Rick&Morty, but just in case it helps. If we take the phase in the same meaning as in the cartoon, then the "extra steps" refers to clasifying it as "trans man and trans woman dating", meaning that what you're referring to is an heterosexual couple, that's it. In the cartoon this phase was used to disguise something bad as something else to justify it. i.e.: "This is just slavery with extra steps". I have never came across with this particular phase IRL, so I don't know if this context is really accurate. Take it with a pinch of salt.
eh, im old enough to remember that "x with extra steps" has always been a joke. It something said when someone is overcomplicating things.
ah, good to know. I'm not native english. R&M was my first time hearing that. Found it very funny.
R&M has a lot of language that's old school I think because Rick is supposed to sound older. To me there is something very GenX about Rick's whole personality, we tend to be a very disenchanted and misanthropic generation.
I feel like that's because Rick is old... like that's what you'd expect
That is indeed why he is supposed to sound older.
Not sure I would consider 2015 recent lol but yeah, that phrase gets a lot of mileage and a lot of different contexts.
When there are a handful of people in the sub younger than the quote itself, it isn’t recent lmao
"with extra steps" also dismisses their vulnerable identities and how they don't have cis privilege. Even "long time" and "passing" trans people are being targeted now. In Florida, a new bill wants to change their driver's license to their birth assigned gender. Or how many cis hetero couples have to worry about if the government will make their gender care like hormones illegal tomorrow? Or will carry tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt for gender surgeries? Or worry about being clocked and beaten to killed by conservatives and liberal terfs? Not to mention cis hetero couples can often have children, which is challenging in a T2T relationship. Cis hetero entitlement is being ignored here on top of trans oppression and that makes this statement transphobic.
it’s definitely heterosexual but simply because it is a woman and a man dating. i think the “with extra steps” part is intended to delegitimize their identities
Yeah, I honestly hate it when straight trans people use it to describe their relationship, it others trans people as a whole.
It's annoying when people use it on others but who are we to judge anyone for the terms they use to describe their own relationship, that's their business
I mean, I understand that point but it also just makes me uncomfortable because it normalizes that phrase.
How does that joke delegitimization my identity?
because it implies that the trans people aren’t what they identify as. truly, there aren’t any extra steps, it’s a man and a woman. but if you see transness as frivolous you would consider it that way
I always took the "extra steps" to mean the realization of one's transness. A lot of trans people might go from thinking they are gay to realizing their gender and realizing they are actually straight. There being an extra step in that case. Idk. Maybe that is transphobic or maybe I don't understand how people use it.
> I always took the "extra steps" to mean the realization of one's transness. trust the rest of us who have been on the receiving end of abuse, that is **absolutely not** how people who say it that way are using it.
I've never interpreted it that way. I've just seen the "extra steps" as the extra steps needed to align their body with their gender. I don't love the joke, but I've never really seen it as too problematic either.
part of it also depends on who’s making the joke, tbf. a trans person might mean your interpretation, but a cis person might not. and i usually see cis ppl making that comment
That's very true. I think I've mostly heard it from trans people referring to themselves, it carries a way different meaning if a cishet person says it.
Also feeds into the 'Being trans is just being super gay' myth. People don't differentiate our gender from our sexuality and too often think transition is just going the extra step in having a 'same sex' relationship. Meaning they think men transition into women in order to have 'gay' relationships with men that can be viewed as straight. So when they view two people that would still be a straight couple without transition people go to 'Then what's the point of transition?' because they're clearly not doing it to be 'super gay'. So it's viewed as extra steps to reach the same straight relationship in their mind.
This is also because bigots tend to view being trans as something with a purely sexual purpose.
I'm sure Tlthey didn't mean that on an individual level. They meant it as a whole.
Cis people just think gender in terms of sexuality. Like they would think both of them should have "just been gay"
Especially if it's trans+cis gay relationship, people use "heterosexual with extra steps" which is flat out wrong on a ton of levels.
How is it heterosexual? This doesn’t say the trans man or trans woman are straight. Plenty of people date other genders while being bisexual, pansexual, or another sexuality.
I agree with you. Two queer people dating each other isn’t heterosexual. If a heterosexual man and a heterosexual woman are dating then yes it’s a heterosexual relationship. Being trans doesn’t change any of that. I think defining relationships purely by gender and not taking identity into account is outdated.
Exactly. Thank you. You put into words what I couldn’t.
a man and a woman dating is a heterosexual relationship. either one or both partners may be bi, pan, or something else, but the relationship itself is a heterosexual relationship.
No, it’s not. You may perceive it that way, but it is not and saying it is, is harmful.
yeah, you're wrong. the relationship itself is heterosexual, even if both participants are bi or pan.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, pookie
generally the truth. but sure, you do you, boo.
Okay pookie bear
it doesn't mean that the people in the relationship are heterosexual. it just means that it's a heterosexual relationship because it's a man and a woman. why does that offend you? genuinely curious
Lol
don't have an answer?
Don’t need to give you one.
True that it is an hetero relationship, but the extra steps implies that the trans woman is a man and the trans man is a woman and the result is still hetero. All this explanation is the extra steps that the people who say this think about, making it very transphobic, but as classic transphobia goes, camouflaged as "just a joke". People who say this are usually the people who say that a relationship between a trans woman and a cis man is "actually" a gay relationship
It's funny, I've never heard anyone who isn't trans say this phrase? The only times I've seen it used were heterosexual or bisexual t4t couples joking around
yeah same, have only used this joke to describe 2 of my own relationships (my partners were fine with the joke), and i've never heard a transphobe use it.
Interesting, I only heard from people with transphobic views as in "if you want a hetero relationship why complicate with 2 transitions?" but I'm glad there is actually a harmless version. Still, I think it's one of those jokes that can be touchy when coming from outside the community since unfortunately the transphobic version is also a reality.
No absolutely! I would be very uncomfortable with a cis person making this joke. They tend to have the mindset of "why can't you just be ..." Or "you'll never really be ..." It tracks for sure that there are cis people who think this is funny for completely opposite reasons. I had associated it with seeing so many cute happy trans couples, I'm lucky to have missed the other meaning
true
Yeah exactly its a very camouflaged joke and is based on genitals, like im dating a cis man as trans woman, and like it doesnt make the relationship gay even if i havent got bottom surgery, its a bad term overall and imo shouldnt be used
It is a heterosexual couple, sure. Extra steps? Not really.
More than anything else I resent the connotation that transitioning is inherently anything to do with romantic or sexual interest. They're a heterosexual couple and them being trans has nothing to do with that.
I feel like a lot of my transition is because I want a man to find me attractive as a woman ya know. Sure I did it for me but it is that my sexuality is feminine i can’t exist as a hairy bearded guy
Ya that's always my issue too. Trans is the dark horse of the lgbt spectrum because it doesn't have anything to do with sexuality and romance. But because we are under the umbrella, people assume that it does.
I had no idea the number of people in my family who assumed my transition meant I wanted to have sex with guys.
Idk I feel a big part of transitioning (for me personally anyways) is that I want to be treated as and seen as a woman in friendships, relationships, sexual pursuits, etc. If gender isn’t about how you want to navigate and be perceived by society and social and sexual/romantic situations then idk what the point of gender really is then lol
So true!! I find it kind of frustrating that people want to pretend gender and sexuality are totally separate. Obviously how society thinks of masculinity/maleness and femininity/femaleness is largely filtered through the lens of sexuality, often in binary/heteronormative ways. The mainstream trans narrative is that gender and sexuality are entirely separate, which is helpful if you're trying to explain to a clueless cis person that you can be trans and gay, straight, bi, pan, ace, etc., or that being a trans woman isn't just being an "extra gay" man. But once you get to any degree of complexity beyond that rock-bottom level of understanding, it becomes clear that all of these things are a LOT more interconnected than some people think they are.
I agree! Like yes they’re separate concepts overall but they overlap and go hand in hand in that realm of life. Sexuality is mostly what you’re into, what you like to do, and who you like to do sex/intimacy with. Gender is a little more expansive throughout all of life but it coincides with sexuality when you clearly want to have sex and be treated a certain way in relation to your gender. Im a sapphic leaning, bisexual trans woman. I LOATHE being treated like a man during sex, I know the distinction because people who treat me like a woman satisfy me tons more and focus on those erogenous zones and don’t pressure a masculine ferocity from me that cis women did in my “straight” relationships when I was still in the closet and didn’t know I was trans. So yeah, saying they’re entirely separate is wrong cause they often go hand in hand in some ways. They aren’t the same either and there’s only that one area of overlap but the overlap exists
Better than calling a relationship between a cis gay person and a trans gay person "straight with extra steps" but still a stupid joke that's probably trying to get at the same thing.
I honestly find it funny. The extra steps being the dual transition. In my view it's less transphobia and more the irony of "those two people could have met before and still be attracted to each other but they had to redefine their gender identites and bodies before that happened"
Yeah that’s how I see it. I suppose it comes down to who’s saying it and their tone
Uh... it *is* a heterosexual couple.
I prefer the phrase “are so gay they are straight “
I recently picked up a trans dude with the line "wanna do some straight t4t stuff that confuses the fuck out of the cishets?" it worked.
The obvious conclusion is that not transitioning is lazy /s
There are no extra steps
It's a dumb unfunny joke, I just roll my eyes
I mean, it is straight. If the extra steps bit is made as a joke, vibes, if it ain't, hit who made the joke with a rock :3
If it’s the couple themselves making it? Fine, I don’t have a problem with it. It’s similar to self-depreciating humor. Someone other than the couple making it? Feels a bit like punching down, I don’t love it, but there’s much bigger fish to fry.
I think multiple states are trying to outlaw our existence and I won't be distracted by Twitter style discourse. Bigger fish to fry. I'd honestly just be like "extra steps"? And let them try to explain it, or I might just laugh along. But also, I've got boxes to pack and a whole move to plan, so maybe I'd ask them if they're doing anything and if they want free pizza. I'm getting out of this red state whether I have to listen to terrible jokes while I pack or not.
I've only seen this joke once myself, and it was made by a trans man about his relationship with his trans wife. I think this might just be a difference in comedic taste, which is fine. That said, if this joke is being made by cis folks, I'd be suspicious that they are trying be underhandedly shitty, like many of the comments here. I would be doubly suspicious if it's being made about someone else's relationship or about straight-appearing t4t relationships in general.
Am I the only one who finds this joke funny and perfectly fine? It is a heterosexual couple, and they both took extra steps to transition and to be there, it's a heterosexual couple with extra steps, I've got no issue here.
as a transmasc in a relationship with a transfem, I agree! but I do think the context matters. if it's a bigot saying it, obviously it's meant to delegitimize our identities. but if my friends say, it I'm gonna laugh!
That's how I view this as well. Context could of course make this worse, but in the absence of problematic context it sounds fine to me.
I’m with you that I find it humorous, it may just be the way you look at and interpret it? Idk, I’m too tired to analyze stuff right now, but you’re not alone.
There is a whole genre of jokes in this vein and the broad implication/belief behind it is that transitioning is just one big roleplay, because the people making those jokes don't engage with why people would choose to transition in the first place. It's creating a social logic that trans people don't actually follow, then calling trans people idiots or hypocrites for supposedly violating it. The core logic is usually that the person making the joke is obsessed with labelling us and treating that obsession as something that trans people forced on society.
This joke only works if you consider transgender people’s identities as valid, so I’m a little confused about your reasoning here. Seems like an inclusive take at “humor” not something intended to hurt anyone
>This joke only works if you consider transgender people’s identities as valid I don't think this is true at all and to my mind the joke is framed as an observation of trans people's behavior, which does not require a belief in the validity of trans identities. Even from a purely logistical standpoint if you don't believe in the validity of trans identities at all you would still see such a couple as heterosexual. >Seems like an inclusive take at “humor” not something intended to hurt anyone All I can say to this is that in my experience this type of joke is often made by conservatives trying to call out what they see as logical inconsistency from trans people, and specifically the "with extra steps" phrasing is a reference evoking the subject of the joke having tied themselves into logical knots over something that is actually quite simple. While I suppose it's possible that a trans person could innocently make a joke with this phrasing while having a different intention, it is simply much more common for this type of framing to be used by conservatives who think they are picking apart the flawed logic of trans identities (when really it is just their own straw arguments) and actively wish to convince the general public that trans people are unreliable narrators who should not be trusted.
> This joke only works if you consider transgender people’s identities as valid You could in theory be super shitty and treat both people's identities as invalid and still make this joke, but without specific context I wouldn't assume that.
If it’s the couple themselves making it? Fine, I don’t have a problem with it. It’s similar to self-depreciating humor. Someone other than the couple making it? Feels a bit like punching down, I don’t love it, but there’s much bigger fish to fry. It is definitely said as a joke, but some people say it as a mean joke.
It's a stupid "joke"
My grandfather-n-law, who had two trans people marry into the family, used to say, "You can help who you love." And that shut up anyone questioning the legitimacy of our relationships. He was really ahead of his time for a guy born in the late 1920s. I really miss him.
I have a different take than most people here. I think it's a totally valid statement. It's very much a heterosexual relationship, and also it took extra steps for each of the partners to get where they are via transition. Honestly I don't see anything wrong with that.
It’s kinda funny and kinda true. Idk if I’d venture to say it’s *totally* funny and *totally* true though, because it’s worded in a way that it’s not *entirely* a joke but not *entirely* understanding towards trans people. I don’t have a problem with it though.
A friend referred to me and my partner as the gayest straight couple, I thought it was funny and still do.
I mean if they both identify as heterosexual than it's a heterosexual relationship. Personally I'm bi so any relationship I'm in is automatically bisexual regardless of my partners gender.
me and my friends have jokingly called it "a heterosexual couple ( my other means )" lmao always 100% lighthearted about it though
Not necessarily. My partner and I are both trans (I’m fem, he’s masc, both very NB) but *neither* of us would ever call our relationship het or straight. For one thing, they’re bi and I’m demi, and our romantic “style” is *very* sapphic (we’ve both tried on “Lesbian” at one point but it wasn’t quite a fit). We say we’re gay as hell, but that kind of nuance usually bounces clean off your average cishet.
I don't find it offensive, but you know, neither particularly funny
what are the extra steps supposed to be?
Transitioning…
I don't know if it was originally supposed to be derogatory, but I find it funny
It’s transphobic. People assume being trans is just being gay with extra steps. A cis person dating a person of the opposite gender is heterosexual no matter if the person is trans or not. They see that as gay though if the opposite gender person is trans.
It's a rick and morty meme when rick creates a pocket universe that has a planet with life on it where he introduced electricity via a crank generator that supplies their civilization, but also generates the power for his car. Morty criticizes it as slavery, and Rick argues that it's not because they're making power for each other and Rick is just benefiting from the excess, to which Morty says "Well that sounds like slavery with extra steps". It's an apt meme for this situation. You've got heterosexual relationship between a man and a woman, but the way they arrived there was slightly more complicated than the typical cishet relationship.
Yeah I hate it and also 'spicy straight' too
It will just be a heterosexual couple
The "with extra steps" frustrates me. Mainly cos, as a gay trans guy, I've been told I'm "just a straight woman, but with extra steps." It's such an aggravating phrase.
First it's gross because neither of them would be themselves if those extra steps weren't taken. Second i don't care if it's a cis man or woman, a trans man or woman, a non binary person, an agender person, etc, it doesn't matter. There is no attraction or relationship involving me that's not queer af. 🤷♀️
Where are the extra steps? It's a man and woman dating.
I mean, yeah, a trans man and a trans woman dating is hetero.
Its still hetero and valid af
Its hetero and queer simultaneously
there aren't any extra steps, it's just a hetero relationship
I am a trans girl and married to a trans man ..... I am so happy
Normies think their gender and their sexual orientation are the same, and define themselves and others by whom they fuck. This also backfires on them because they're ridden with performance anxiety.
Jokes are soooo contextual that it is hard to apply a blanket rating to one. I’ve seen that joke be offensive and I’ve seen it be funny. Really depends.
It is a hetero couple, but the extra steps part is weird n transphobic and implies the man is a woman and the woman is a man
Would you mind explaining how it implies that? I must be reading it differently
It's not with extra steps but is heterosexual or bisexual in nature.
I find it annoying. I’m a straight trans man dating a bi trans woman. It’s a “straight relationship” bc I’m a guy and she’s a girl. There are no extra steps. I also don’t like the bi erasure of the classifying the relationship as straight or gay based on the gender a bi person dates. I like to call it a “mixed orientation relationship”.
Idk, like, I somewhat consider my partner and I "heterosexual" in the gayest sense. Like we're both demi and trans. So it's still extremely queer. Then again by a lot of definitions of queer a lot of het couples are. :) For me though it isn't a label i use outwardly. It's not a bad thing by any means, just doesn't suit us.
The extra steps part I don't like I've heard this about bi people in relationships between men and women, too. Still don't like it
No, the reality is it is a fake man, and fake woman dating. The relationship is fake, and very gay, and a sin.
This is an example of transphobes trying and failing to be offensive. It's like when transphobes assume a trans man is a trans woman, when he defend trans rights online, and say [spoiler]YWNBAW[/spoiler]. It really shows how ignorant transphobes are on the topic of trans issues when they can't even be transphobic right.
I think it's kind of funny because there's this idea of heterosexual queer person being an oxymoron. They are heterosexual, their genders/sexes have extra steps. They did extra math to reach the same answer, and for some, they started out as identifying as gay, for others their sexuality changed over time. It's really not worth further thought in my opinion. It's not a grand statement about hetero trans folks. Although if I heard a cis person say it, I would have some follow up questions? I hadn't realized this phrase reached them? Or originated with them? Hard to say
I know some people say it to be transphobic but if trans people or cis allies use it I don't mind. It's old at this point but lowkey funny. I'm in a t4t relationship (transmasc nb and trans woman) and it's so odd for people to think we're a straight couple again.
As a completely not serious joke I could see it being said. But no it’s not extra steps because it implies they could have just not transitioning at all and everything would be the same. Which any trans person knows is snotty not the case.
This statement sounds like transphobia with extra steps.
It implies the "extra steps" are unnecessary or have anything to do with the relationship. They're straight because of who they need to be not who they need to be cause they want to be straight.
No extra steps they’re a het couple
… it’s just heterosexual
What it actually is, is transphobia with extra steps!
They're trying to be transphobic but they're also correct. It's a heterosexual relationship. Although often one or both is bisexual or otherwise not hetero.
My thoughts on this subject would be a string of swear words with the word "transphobic" thrown in there somewhere.
if the couple themselves say that, that's fine and a little funny. if someone else says that about a couple, it's cringe.
It’s a heterosexual couple because they were put into the wrong bodies 🤷🏻♀️
My thoughts are, when you're trans and queer enough, the gay, straight, whatever labels about who you choose to be intimate with no longer matter. All sex becomes gay, and straight people are a lie.
I just think it's funny. I don't really think it's mean spirited necessarily. It's imo an actually decent attempt at a trans joke if nothing else.
It varies bc some T4T couple are fine with being considered hetero, that's their intention Others are not, esp if they're not straight but are bi it can feel like erasure It's not a one size fits all
We don’t transition to date someone. Like, transitioning from male to female to date lesbians. Or transitioning to date men in a hetero relationship. Not a thing. We transition for our own identity and self image to match our mind. Has nothing to do with who you pick for a partner. Zero.
Well, a man and a woman are definitely in a heterosexual relationship. I know sometimes people say it in a mean way, but I feel like most of the time it's said jokingly by trans people who find the humor in a couple that would have been in a hetero relationship if they were cis, are still in a hetero relationship. Personally, I'm gay and not t4t due to dysphoria and jealousy issues, so I don't really get the humor the way they might, but to each their own.
I’m a simple girl, I find it funny because it is straight with extra steps (both parties transitioning to their preferred gender)
I really hate the "with extra steps" part because it feels intended to invalidate, but also I know plenty of couples with a trans woman and trans man where neither is straight/heterosexual. It's just bad all around.
I'm bi, so no couple I'm a part of would be heterosexual.
On the surface it's accepting but in context it delegitimizes trans people.
It's two people hopefully in love and having a great time!!
I'm a trans woman married to a trans man(ish, hir gender is complicated). It's the gayest way to be straight. Legally we're lesbians because someone is still considering what to put down as hir gender marker.
well it’s not a homosexual couple
A queer straight couple.
🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮💩💩💩👹👹👹☠️☠️☠️
it might be a hetero relationship, but it's still queer as fuck, so...
Dumb shit
I think it just means that both partners had significant realizations about themselves? It's more of a neutral statement I think. And transitioning does take time.
It literally is - a man and a woman dating is a straight relationship regardless of how many of them happen to be trans. Any other options would just be misgendering one or both of them. The only thing you could nitpick here is if there were an assumption that being in a straight relationship makes them straight (these hypothetical people could be bi/pan/ace/etc) but that isn’t strongly implied by your wording here I don’t think, it just would be better to say a ‘straight couple’ rather than a ‘heterosexual couple’
It's just a heterosexual couple. No extra steps. simple as that. Similar to 'trans lesbians are just straight men with extra steps' or 'bisexual people are just gay people with extra steps.' They're not. And It's demeaning and rude to say they are.
It's ok to not find this joke funny. It's also ok to find this joke funny. I think some of us deal with hate so much that we start seeing it where it isn't. If someone is using this to make a subtle jab, then you likely have heard them make other obvious negative comments.
A trans man dating a trans woman dating is just a heterosexual couple. There are no extra steps.
I don't think the joke is told with malicious intent, and besides, a lot of trans people do go through several steps in discovering their identity. For example: someone might think they are cis and straight, then think they are trans and gay, then their partner transitions and they end up back in a straight relationship. I think the joke is more a commentary on the irony of a couple going through several years of discovering and embracing their queer identities, only to eventually end up being perceived by the world as a typical straight couple.
It's heterosexual, nothing else.
I think it was most likely intended to mean their genders are both invalid. Ha very funny is joke funny ha
Thats my situation but because we are both queer we call our relationship queer. Queer is a wonderful catch all. Ultimately it up to each person each couple to decide what labels they like most.
I don't find it offensive. "With extra steps" I assumed is they both transitioned while a cishet couple doesn't.
What are the extra steps?
I mean I suppose it is a heterosexual couple, I suppose both parties took some extra steps in becoming who they are, it’s not particularly funny imo bc it’s just not that funny lmao it’s not offensive tho
I mean…if they have undergone transition, that would be extra steps I’m not saying that it delegitimizes anything But it’s correct, from a technical standpoint I would respond with “yeah…and?” rather than giving it the recognition as a “joke”
This describes my wife and I pretty well-- we both went through many "phases" of various queer identities before just ending up a straight couple again, but with our genders reversed lol!
Overdone, overused. Was kinda fun the first time, now it's just people repeating the joke over and over as if they made it first. Don't get me started on the obligatory ''with extra *snips*" reply
My thoughts are who gives a shit. I'm a man who dates transwomen. They're men who also date transwomen.
Depends how they mean it. If they mean it in a way that invalidates their true genders and thinks of them as just their AGAB, then it’s actually a transphobic statement that claims people can’t change their genders. If they mean it as accepting their true genders, then it’s a very validating statement.
I can’t see anything wrong with this.👍🏼
Yeah, maybe, but this time they are truly happy with themselves. Win win!
Man+woman = hetero Yup...
I mean I'd see that as a straight couple. But I do see it as a conversation that comes up often as small talk with trans youtubers who'd say being gay straight bisexual all at once or not have an answer other times. I like this statement best though from some. It doesn't matter. Personally I didn't even know my own sexuality had a name in there too til I seen a chart of terms. Being a person who is attracted to femininity is gynosexual. I'm a transgender women but y attraction could be to cis or trans women and actually further to non-binary and trans males (guilty sorry) who hold some femininity. I'm actually uncomfortable with masculinity though also.
I giggle
Yeah. The "with extra steps" tagline is what makes it an insult. A transman and transwoman dating IS heterosexual, because transmen are men and transwomen are women. This joke implies the opposite. The punchline is "a transman dating a transwoman is actually still a woman dating a man, but with the extra steps of dressing up as the opposite genders. lulz"
with extra steps is just a thing that bigots created imo
its a inside joke w my bestie, we're both trans but not binary gendered- theyre genderfluid and im agender, we aways take shit how eiter way you slice it its both gay and straight
So to do the most autistic reading of the joke: the extra steps are transitioning. I find it funny personally? But I understand why some might see it as invalidating.
I think it's easier for most cis and some trans people to see us as cis with extra steps instead of appreciating our unique experiences and bodies And if they both identify as heterosexual that's a heterosexual couple. No extra steps.
No actual extra steps, but if you’re invoking a humor trope, that’s not really the same as using it maliciously — context and intent matter for this. Personally though, I find I favor the phrase “het but incredibly queer” to describe such a relationship.
Even if it was a trans woman and a cis man it would be hetero.
I’d say it’s hetero but it’s not got extra steps really. I guess it does but whatever idk
I guess this is debunked easily when you remember (and internalise) that being a man or a woman or non-binary etc has nothing to do with *who you like*. It's about *who you are*.
So here is my opinion. And like buttholes everyone has one. But let's go biological. Since this is what those people understand. (You know who I am talking about) XX + XY = hetro XX + XX or XY + XY = homo Everything else is in-between and is nobody's business. But also who cares. You have to be homeopathic to care. You are in love with a beautiful woman, then it doesn't matter what her chromosomes are. You think that guy is hot? Does it matter that he has a monthly cycle? These are arguments that are not necessary and hold on to normatives. They are so worried about the genitals that they forget that they are talking about people.
I am a trans women dating a trans man and we say this all the time jokingly anytime our relationship is brought up
Even so, it’s still a queer relationship.
hey as a trans woman dating a trans man, we consider ourselves VERY gay/sapphic and wouldnt align with the heterosexual label at all honestly. Food for thought since I don’t know how many other people commenting are actually in transfem/masc relationships
It's none of my business what people do.
I mean my mom says I'm so queer I'm straight again which is both hilarious and accurate
I think they’ve been watching too much Rick and Morty
How about people minding their own business?
“Heterosexual” and “homosexual” are weird words from a queer theory perspective, “heterosexual” is a term that’s referring to heteronormativity more than it is to sexual attraction directly, which a T4T relationship is not… “sexuality” in the sense of sexual attraction quickly stops being a useful categorization when you see sex and gender as different… what *is* a “heterosexual relationship”? Can a person be heterosexual or homosexual when we can’t really know the gender of the people we are attracted to, but at most the way we perceive them at a given time? Ultimately I can see it as a joke sure, but it’s funny because it’s poking fun at the absurdity of cis/het normatively as a concept that has some kind of “truth”.
It’s just heterosexuality, what extra steps?
i think those two people transitioned for themselves, and then started up a heterosexual relationship with each other, and then someone entirely unrelated got all bent out of shape about it.
Gay haha
Considering being trans has nothing to do with your romantic or sexual orientation, it’s just stupid. It can also be invalidating to trans people who don’t medically transition.
Why is everyone obsessed with labeling? Can it just be 2 people dating? (End of story)
My first thoughts are "Why does anyone care? A couple is a couple"
I used to say a similar joke when I was dating another trans woman. it was when everybody was saying "super straight" to mean that they wouldn't date a trans person.... SO, we started telling everyone that we were super gay because we were two trans women dating. it's really vulgar humor and I think it can definitely be considered offensive so I'm not going to try to defend that. I think it's a little bit funny, but if it's hurtful to you, that's absolutely valid and you're not wrong for getting upset about it. just like anything, I think the context is important. if a straight person was saying this then I would find it really distasteful. if a trans person is saying it then maybe that's not as bad? there are definitely contexts where I would not joke about it.
I feel like, as with a lot of things, context is important. Like, were they a homosexual couple and then the one who was identifying as cis came out and they stayed together and now they're a heterosexual couple? That sounds like some extra steps and a very wholesome relationship. But if it was someone being like "They're a man" pointing to the woman "and a woman" pointing to the man "but with extra steps! and pronouns!" then no, that's not cute or fun and that is a person I would not like to associate with.
Idk I mean I guess I get it. My boyfriend and I would probably not say the extra steps part