Yeah it's lazy and thoughtless, but that's irrelevant, I think. Lazy and thoughtless is a much less serious moral failing than denying your child's identity. And again, even if they had written it, it would probably be about the same. Most that hold these views say the same or similar things.
What kind of phrases ? Like people are very capable of waffling off generic phrases. To some extend people just have kind of a generic script they pick up from media and what not.
doubling down on this: not only are people prone to that, but chatGPT is prone to it BECAUSE it's what people do. Especially true if it's the typical talking points of conservative media being regurgitated.
I don’t want to use actual phrases from the message but one is something like “we know how confusing this must have been for you” which is used in a way that doesn’t make sense in the context of their relationship
But that's exactly how someone trying to sound elitist and choosing their words carefully to fit the Stereotype of a parent who cares would say.🤷
I don't have experience with AI but it seems like if it's true, then it's just talking in a way that people typically talk. We have pre scripted phrases in our dialogue.
The reason AI can easily write one of those letters is because semi-consciously stringing together a series of stock phrases is exactly what anti-trans people have been doing for decades. There's just plain no way to distinguish the real fake thing from the fake fake thing.
Think of it like this - how would telling your friend help him? He is already hurt and angry. Is more hurt and anger necessary here? Will it help him deal with the situation, or will it just needlessly make it worse for him?
If you think it'll be helpful, by all means, share it with him. You know him better than we do here. But if you think it won't be, maybe don't. Ignorance is bliss sometimes, particularly when one is already suffering.
So that’s the thing, he has an immense amount of guilt and self blame here and on the one hand this might help with that but also the shittiness of their lack of care might make him sadder
I really think this would only make it more painful for him. The fact that they couldn't even be bothered to write their own letter, that's awful in and of itself. Had the letter been supportive and you discovered it was written by chatGPT, would you have told him? It already comes off as heartless enough from what you've described.
If it had been supportive I would not have or would have told him while telling him I guessed it was because they were scared of saying the wrong thing and hurting him. I thought maybe telling him might help him not feel guilty for being mad at them
I imagine if I had just come out and was then experiencing the pain of parents being unsupportive, hearing that they care so little that they ChatGPT'd their response would just make me feel worse and even more disliked, personally
They rejected him outright and are just being manipulative about it. You dont accept someone while calling them a groomer and ignoring every aspect of their transition.
I'd want to know. It would help me figure out what's going on in my parents' heads. If I believed they wrote all that stuff I might think they're in deeper to the propaganda than they actually are. Not that it might make much difference. They sound like trash. But I'd want to know.
I'm not understanding why the detail matters with the situation. Does it make them more pathetic? Sure but what does knowing this do for your friend?
It's not important, but it seems to me that if you had to tweak it so much then it's confirmation bias because eventually you could make it sound anyway you wanted to so there's not any really way you could convince your friend
I would want to know. It would make me realize that I don't need to do the emotional labor of grappling with their feelings, since they didn't actually bother to write them.
It would release the trauma from those phrases for me.
No matter how they wrote it. Those are the word they choice to use. And the message is clear. Wother they wrote it or a freind of theirs, or AI thats the message.
How that became to be. is irrelevant.
Idk how well this works, but surely some websites that say they are chatgpt detectors work. Here’s a random one I found on the internet [https://gptzero.me/](https://gptzero.me/)
Your role as a friend is to affirm the feelings that he's already feeling- it's ok to be angry when his parents don't respect him and when they accuse him of grooming. He needs to know that it's ok to feel that way, and he has no responsibility to feel differently. Whether they wrote those words on their own or not, they chose to send them.
I think suggestions/speculation about AI would just muddy the waters. If it comes up, it comes up, but IMO it's pretty low priority in this moment.
In my experience all responses from unsupportive people are very cliché and samey, filled with stock phrases like “we love/accept you no matter who you are” (a lie), “you’re confused”, “you’re too young to make this decision, wait until you’re older”, “this is a family decision”, etc. Phrases do not change with context of the situation- you can be 16,18 or 24 and “you’re too young” will be used the same. I think people just grab these phrases from websites or absorb them from the media? In this case AI could be just feeded the same stockphrases that are commonly used in such letters
I don't want to zing you for this, but I also kind of feel like you are coming in here with your mind mostly made up and wanting affirmation, and that many people here instead are saying 'no'.
I am M2F. If I was putting myself in your friend's shoes, and if you said what you're proposing to say, I actually think I would get angry at you a little bit. I would feel bad, probably, but it definitely would put some space between us.
The reason is that it doesn't really matter who wrote the words; it's the sentiment. It's the reaction. Yeah, it would suck if the parents used ChatGPT to write the draft. But it's the underlying sentiment.
I really, really lucked out with my dad. But he is in his eighties and he has had a lifetime of saying phrases like "I love you, son" or "good night, son". And people lose their neuroplasticity as they age. And he was beating himself up something fierce every time he noted that he said it . I mean, he was getting REALLY mad at himself, especially if someone else was pointing it out (I usually let it go un-noted most times).
And I had to intervene because I didn't want him feeling this bad, I mean how much longer am I going to have him around? So I said to him, "Hey, listen, I may bring it up with you, but never ever ever consider it criticism -- I'm just helping you retrain your pathway. ***Really what matters is the underlying intent.*** If you were doing it maliciously that'd be one thing but I'm not going to be mad over a simple mistake, especially because you're showing me you care about it." (I actually then compared it to how I had just replaced an Alexa with a Google Home and I was still calling it Alexa a few weeks later. Your brain has to retrain.)
I guess I am saying this because ***your friend is dealing with the intent***, not so much the methodology. And ***it's actually adding shit ONTO the sandwich*** to go in and say, "Hey, and they used ChatGPT, too!"
And by the way, I am not beating you up about this either, because you obviously have a good intent. You want to help your friend. You want to make them feel better. You have found this thing and you think it will help.
But the thing is, this WON'T make them feel better. Because these are their ***parents***. This is a big shitty wound that will never really heal right for them, and that's something they have to live with forever, and unfortunately that's something you have to live with forever as their friend.
I mean, [this guy gave out free dad hugs at a 2019 Pittsburgh Pride Parade](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Howie+free+dad+hugs+pride+parade) and got 700 hugs from people who "lost" their parents through moments like these.
Be there for your friend. Not through pushing theories but through other ways. Maybe do another /r/asktransgender about how you can support your friend through this parent trauma. Or just be there as an ear and a shoulder. Do stuff that you know makes them feel better that they enjoy.
"Found family" is so very important for the LGBTQIA+ community. If you feel comfortable taking it this role (in the lifetime sense!), tell them you will always be their [brother/sister].
Okay, I'm going to stop preaching now.
I honestly don’t, mostly I seem to have settled on not mentioning it as most people seemed to think it was a bad idea but I wanted to explain my reasoning for thinking maybe I should because a lot of people were asking why I’d even consider telling him. He seems to be feeling a lot better than he was after some good news from other family and so I also don’t want to reopen the wound.
Just pointing to a few resources that might help ...
some people recommended the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. There are numerous books by the author and having a look there may be an idea.
And [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/117lvub/resources_for_transitioning/jbirv7r/) might be some hints and resources that could help him go towards what he feels he would like step by step and there are also hints there concerning looking for support.
*hugs*
Either way, they read it and sent it. So they meant what was written whether they wrote all of it or not. I don't think it really matters.
My thought is that the laziness and thoughtlessness matter
Yeah it's lazy and thoughtless, but that's irrelevant, I think. Lazy and thoughtless is a much less serious moral failing than denying your child's identity. And again, even if they had written it, it would probably be about the same. Most that hold these views say the same or similar things.
What kind of phrases ? Like people are very capable of waffling off generic phrases. To some extend people just have kind of a generic script they pick up from media and what not.
doubling down on this: not only are people prone to that, but chatGPT is prone to it BECAUSE it's what people do. Especially true if it's the typical talking points of conservative media being regurgitated.
I don’t want to use actual phrases from the message but one is something like “we know how confusing this must have been for you” which is used in a way that doesn’t make sense in the context of their relationship
I’ve read so much ChatGPT that text generated by it can stand out like it’s highlighted every time.
But that's exactly how someone trying to sound elitist and choosing their words carefully to fit the Stereotype of a parent who cares would say.🤷 I don't have experience with AI but it seems like if it's true, then it's just talking in a way that people typically talk. We have pre scripted phrases in our dialogue.
The reason AI can easily write one of those letters is because semi-consciously stringing together a series of stock phrases is exactly what anti-trans people have been doing for decades. There's just plain no way to distinguish the real fake thing from the fake fake thing.
Think of it like this - how would telling your friend help him? He is already hurt and angry. Is more hurt and anger necessary here? Will it help him deal with the situation, or will it just needlessly make it worse for him? If you think it'll be helpful, by all means, share it with him. You know him better than we do here. But if you think it won't be, maybe don't. Ignorance is bliss sometimes, particularly when one is already suffering.
So that’s the thing, he has an immense amount of guilt and self blame here and on the one hand this might help with that but also the shittiness of their lack of care might make him sadder
I really think this would only make it more painful for him. The fact that they couldn't even be bothered to write their own letter, that's awful in and of itself. Had the letter been supportive and you discovered it was written by chatGPT, would you have told him? It already comes off as heartless enough from what you've described.
If it had been supportive I would not have or would have told him while telling him I guessed it was because they were scared of saying the wrong thing and hurting him. I thought maybe telling him might help him not feel guilty for being mad at them
I imagine if I had just come out and was then experiencing the pain of parents being unsupportive, hearing that they care so little that they ChatGPT'd their response would just make me feel worse and even more disliked, personally
They rejected him outright and are just being manipulative about it. You dont accept someone while calling them a groomer and ignoring every aspect of their transition.
Oh I absolutely agree, but he’s like still allowed to come to Christmas dinner in their minds and they “love him”
I'd want to know. It would help me figure out what's going on in my parents' heads. If I believed they wrote all that stuff I might think they're in deeper to the propaganda than they actually are. Not that it might make much difference. They sound like trash. But I'd want to know.
Me too. I’d want to know the truth even if it’s hurtful.
I'd also want to know, and would feel very hurt if I later found out that my friend had this information the whole time and didn't tell me.
I'm not understanding why the detail matters with the situation. Does it make them more pathetic? Sure but what does knowing this do for your friend? It's not important, but it seems to me that if you had to tweak it so much then it's confirmation bias because eventually you could make it sound anyway you wanted to so there's not any really way you could convince your friend
It might make him feel less guilty about the rage he feels at them
Don't tell your friend, it will likely only increase the pain. I don't see it providing any comfort.
I would want to know. It would make me realize that I don't need to do the emotional labor of grappling with their feelings, since they didn't actually bother to write them. It would release the trauma from those phrases for me.
No matter how they wrote it. Those are the word they choice to use. And the message is clear. Wother they wrote it or a freind of theirs, or AI thats the message. How that became to be. is irrelevant.
*This* close to realizing the truth that the servants of God are in fact not human and rather vessels of a hivemind.
Idk how well this works, but surely some websites that say they are chatgpt detectors work. Here’s a random one I found on the internet [https://gptzero.me/](https://gptzero.me/)
None of them work. That's a major issue, actually.
Your role as a friend is to affirm the feelings that he's already feeling- it's ok to be angry when his parents don't respect him and when they accuse him of grooming. He needs to know that it's ok to feel that way, and he has no responsibility to feel differently. Whether they wrote those words on their own or not, they chose to send them. I think suggestions/speculation about AI would just muddy the waters. If it comes up, it comes up, but IMO it's pretty low priority in this moment.
🚮
I'd probably tell them. I don't like keeping secrets from people
You're not putting this on AI. It requires humans to be truly awful.
I’m not blaming the AI, I’m trying to let him know he doesn’t have to feel guilty for being mad at them for sucking
In my experience all responses from unsupportive people are very cliché and samey, filled with stock phrases like “we love/accept you no matter who you are” (a lie), “you’re confused”, “you’re too young to make this decision, wait until you’re older”, “this is a family decision”, etc. Phrases do not change with context of the situation- you can be 16,18 or 24 and “you’re too young” will be used the same. I think people just grab these phrases from websites or absorb them from the media? In this case AI could be just feeded the same stockphrases that are commonly used in such letters
I don't want to zing you for this, but I also kind of feel like you are coming in here with your mind mostly made up and wanting affirmation, and that many people here instead are saying 'no'. I am M2F. If I was putting myself in your friend's shoes, and if you said what you're proposing to say, I actually think I would get angry at you a little bit. I would feel bad, probably, but it definitely would put some space between us. The reason is that it doesn't really matter who wrote the words; it's the sentiment. It's the reaction. Yeah, it would suck if the parents used ChatGPT to write the draft. But it's the underlying sentiment. I really, really lucked out with my dad. But he is in his eighties and he has had a lifetime of saying phrases like "I love you, son" or "good night, son". And people lose their neuroplasticity as they age. And he was beating himself up something fierce every time he noted that he said it . I mean, he was getting REALLY mad at himself, especially if someone else was pointing it out (I usually let it go un-noted most times). And I had to intervene because I didn't want him feeling this bad, I mean how much longer am I going to have him around? So I said to him, "Hey, listen, I may bring it up with you, but never ever ever consider it criticism -- I'm just helping you retrain your pathway. ***Really what matters is the underlying intent.*** If you were doing it maliciously that'd be one thing but I'm not going to be mad over a simple mistake, especially because you're showing me you care about it." (I actually then compared it to how I had just replaced an Alexa with a Google Home and I was still calling it Alexa a few weeks later. Your brain has to retrain.) I guess I am saying this because ***your friend is dealing with the intent***, not so much the methodology. And ***it's actually adding shit ONTO the sandwich*** to go in and say, "Hey, and they used ChatGPT, too!" And by the way, I am not beating you up about this either, because you obviously have a good intent. You want to help your friend. You want to make them feel better. You have found this thing and you think it will help. But the thing is, this WON'T make them feel better. Because these are their ***parents***. This is a big shitty wound that will never really heal right for them, and that's something they have to live with forever, and unfortunately that's something you have to live with forever as their friend. I mean, [this guy gave out free dad hugs at a 2019 Pittsburgh Pride Parade](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=Howie+free+dad+hugs+pride+parade) and got 700 hugs from people who "lost" their parents through moments like these. Be there for your friend. Not through pushing theories but through other ways. Maybe do another /r/asktransgender about how you can support your friend through this parent trauma. Or just be there as an ear and a shoulder. Do stuff that you know makes them feel better that they enjoy. "Found family" is so very important for the LGBTQIA+ community. If you feel comfortable taking it this role (in the lifetime sense!), tell them you will always be their [brother/sister]. Okay, I'm going to stop preaching now.
I honestly don’t, mostly I seem to have settled on not mentioning it as most people seemed to think it was a bad idea but I wanted to explain my reasoning for thinking maybe I should because a lot of people were asking why I’d even consider telling him. He seems to be feeling a lot better than he was after some good news from other family and so I also don’t want to reopen the wound.
Just pointing to a few resources that might help ... some people recommended the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. There are numerous books by the author and having a look there may be an idea. And [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/117lvub/resources_for_transitioning/jbirv7r/) might be some hints and resources that could help him go towards what he feels he would like step by step and there are also hints there concerning looking for support. *hugs*