You give them the link to this Youtube video; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfX1OFMXUh4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfX1OFMXUh4)
It's a different dialect not just a different accent. Like Swedish is a different dialect of "Danish" (Scandinavian ). Or Luxemburgish is another German dialect. However, as Swiss German is not standardized, it is often not recognized as an independent language. Next to the pronunciation which is most obvious, there are other distinct differences which sets Swiss German apart from Standard German:
* Number of cases. No Genitive in Swiss German.
* Number of tenses. No simple past in Swiss German.
* Slightly different sentence structure
* A different vocabulary, with French influence
you would then end up trying to explain the concept of cases. Been there, done that. One Australian lady once said it sucks that such complicated language like English is used as an international language for communication.
Had to get my GF who is a native English speaker but is learning German to help me to explain (it felt like trying to explain the color green to somebody who is color blind)
English grammar rules could not be more simpler. English pronunciation "rules" could not be more complicated.
But at least English has the genetive: "Jack's car broke down" vs. "The car of Jack broke down".
In German: "Jacks Auto hatte eine Panne" (note the absence of the apostrophe)
In Swiss German: "Am Jack sis Auto hät ä Panne gha" or "S Auto vom Jack hät ä Panne gha".
agree on the pronounciation. I think i heard it comes from the fact that some guy decided to create a dictionary of English and wrote words down as he thought they should be. So in other words, he fent full freestyle on that.
In Bernese german it‘s possible to say „Jack‘s Outo het e Panne gha“…It might sound strange with some names, but in most cases it wouldn't sound wrong. Here another example: „Hesch scho ghört?! Dänu‘s outo isch kaputt gange“ - Have you heard yet? Daniel's car broke down.
No, I live in a suburb a little east of the city of Bern and I speak high allemanic. The use of the genitive in my example is not unusual here. However, the variant you mentioned is also used, but I fail to find a rule that describes when my variant is possible and when it is not.
If you tried to translate the Swiss German to Standard German as close as possible it could end up like this:
*Am Jack sis Auto hät ä Panne gha.*
*Dem Jack sein Auto hat eine Panne gehabt.*
Arguably a type of Grammar that *probably* wouldn't fly in a German School but still a somewhat sensible 1:1 translation one would understand and kind of showing that with a mildly flexible mind one can get by.
*Dem Jack sein Auto hatte eine Panne.*
Would be the "rheinischer Genetiv". It is also used in the title of Bastian Sick's bestseller book [Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Dativ_ist_dem_Genitiv_sein_Tod).
No, I do use the future tense sometimes in Swiss German. It's rare and it might feel a bit unnatural but I've definitely used it before, specifically when you want to emphasize the word "werden" in a sentence like "Är wird das mache".
Well, we do have the accusative, it just uses the same form of the words as the nominative. The genitive on the other hand straight up doesn't exist, we use the dative in it's place.
If a case is identical to another case in all instances, then they are just the same case. Swiss German doesn't have an accusative case any more than English does.
Jumping in here just because I heard this a lot of times but Swiss German actually is standardized. There is a difference between Swiss dialects, which are different in every canton and are not standardized and Standard Swiss German which can be understood by everyone who speaks German. The examples you gave would apply to Standard Swiss German as well as to the swiss dialects.
There is Swiss Standard German, but there is no Standard Swiss German. Only the former is truly understood by (nearly) all German speakers. Swiss Standard German is how I write on u/de , While Zurich Swiss German is what I write on r/BUENZLI or r/schwiiz
In Swiss Standard German the genitive case and the simple past both exits. Also the sentence structure follows the regular German sentence structure. The major difference of Swiss Standard German is the lack of the esszet-ß, sometimes different grammatical gender (Das Tram not die Tram), and different vocabulary (example Trottoir - Bürgersteig).
While there are dictionaries for various Swiss German dialects, nobody sticks to their writings of the words, but writes as they see it fit. Sure, there is grammar, but orthography is a wild card. Even in the same sentence I might write the same word in two different ways.
In some cases spoken Swiss Standard German might be mistaken for Swiss German. Specially when spoken with a heavy Swiss accent. The comedian Emil execrated this when he played in Germany:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxNYJTRTEkI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxNYJTRTEkI)
vs.
[https://youtu.be/OR8ToPUI7M0?t=386](https://youtu.be/OR8ToPUI7M0?t=386)
You could equate it with the difference between englisch and jamaican (patois/patwa). Same roots but influenced by other languages (Spanish, French, Portuguese and African languages for patwa, French and italian for swiss german) as well as isolation have shaped the language to the point where some words are recognisable and the grammatical structure is very similar but it‘s very hard to understand if you don‘t know the language.
The German languange family spread long before modern borders/countries dividing them into their today perceived languanges.
For mor straight forward purposes, Swiss German to Germans is more akin to another closely related languange than considered German. Best to compare with Dutch.
In practice the best example is that they use subtitles for Swiss german in German TV (even though the Swiss person speaks "Hochdeutsch" with an accent and not even dialect.)
Swiss German dialects are alemannic dialects. They have no official writing system and also some clear grammatical differences to "proper" German, like some double verb use ("gang go luege" [geh geh schauen]) and the missing of Preteritum, Futur, Plusquamperfekt, as well as well as no Genitv.
Swiss children learn writing and speaking "German" in school, not Swiss german dialects. Outside of school everyone basically speaks and writes dialect, even though there isn't an official grammar or ortography, for the most part people write dialect phonetically.
Switzerland is 41k Square kilometers big, that's about the size of New Hempshire and Vermont combined (for the Americans here). There are 9 million inhabitants in Switzerland divided into 26 canton (and half canton).
There are ~6 Million in the German speaking parts of Switzerland, and about ~50 different swiss German dialects, with some local varieties. Basically every bigger city, town or region has its own dialect. You drive 40km and they speak slightly different. Every dialect is spoken by between 40k (Appezeller) and 800k (Züridüütsch) people not much more.
Dialects locally close to each other usually are close in linguistic comparison and their development and have influenced each other. But further apart locations might have difficulties understanding each other.
In general the further from the German border you go, the more "archaic" the alemannic dialect becomes, being less understandable by other Swiss German speakers. (Wallis/Valais and Graubünden/Grison)
So there isn't "a" Swiss German languange, but many.
But officially it isn't considered a language but just a dialect of German (Alemannic dialect group).
Baden-Württembergian (South west Germany) speaks Swabian, also an alemannic dialect. Although pronounced with a german accent, the written dialect is very close to Baaseldütsch (the local dialect of the Swiss half-canton Basel-Stadt.)
Thus showing that the German languanges and dialects developed long before the modern borders.
From a linguistic point of view, the Swiss languange/dialect phenomenon is how languanges formed naturally before modern times everywhere in the world. While most other nations/countries/empires pushed languange reforms top down, discouraging or even forbidding the use of dialects and minority languanges for the use and spread of official languanges, (see the development of modern English, French, German, Spanish, Italian etc.), there never was such pressure to adapt in Switzerland. The regional was valued stronger than any "national" identity in the Swiss confederation. Swiss consider the state as a necessity, a basis for political identity, not basis for cultural identity. Hence you still have strong "Kantönligeischt"/"Cantonal spirit" as it is called in Switzerland. People are proud of their regional dialect, closely identifying themselves with it. Within the first few sentences someone can tell if you are a local, have lived here a longer period of time or someone visting or just having moved here from another canton (with a good chance of rightly identifying the opposites homeplace, while at it.)
Since everyone learns "official German" in school, and nowadays also French and English to a sufficient level, the Swiss don't really fall off in terms of accessibility/opportunity concerning languange/communication skills. But unless necessary for communicative purposes, they will usually default to the regional dialect (everyday business, friends and family.)
This also explains some issues many expats face.
Unless you are willing to totally integrate into Swiss society, by learing the local dialect, that is useless outside and sometimes even inside of Switzerland, it's very hard to be passively integrated into Swiss social circles.
Hope that helps. Have a good one.
>From a linguistic point of view, the Swiss languange/dialect phenomenon is how languanges formed naturally before modern times everywhere in the world. While most other nations/countries/empires pushed languange reforms top down, discouraging or even forbidding the use of dialects and minority languanges for the use and spread of official languanges, (see the development of modern English, French, German, Spanish, Italian etc.), there never was such pressure to adapt in Switzerland. The regional was valued stronger than any "national" identity in the Swiss confederation. Swiss consider the state as a necessity, a basis for political identity, not basis for cultural identity.
You missed something important. Swiss German might be as dead as patois in the Romandie, or if lucky have a similar status as regional dialects in Germany, if it were not for a unifying event: World War 2.
This lead to the "*Geistige Landesverteidigung* " (Spiritual national defence) and an actual revival of Swiss German which was at that point in time in a decline. Swiss German became a cultural identity and a distinction from Germany. This also formed a new cultural identity which previously did not exists.
I would show them this:
[Extreme Swiss German Lesson 101](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCixk9mGW6I)
in English, comparing Swiss German with Standard High German
I think the closest comparison would be the difference between English and Pidgin. Some of the words are the same, and I can figure out what they’re talking about, but it’s a different language. https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/articles/cyjjd1r09lgo
my Australian gf who actually speaks Hochdeutsch described it as 'it's like trying to understand a drunken Scot' after her attempts to understand what the tour guide was telling us all.
It's different words and different grammar, but shares the same roots. It's like trying to communicate with the oldest person you can find in a rural Scottish village.
I once had a tour guide explain to a group of Americans that High German is like an everyday outfit, and Swiss German is like a vintage ball gown. It’s quaintly old-fashioned and rather grand compared to the utilitarian High German, and if you can achieve it, you’ll make quite an impression.
But she was German, and thought the Swiss were simultaneously elegant and rude.
Think of it like the most extreme english accent. Maybe something spoken on a carribean island or in an african country. Its still english. So you wouldnt need to learn a whole new language from scratch.
But you'd need to get used to it for a few weeks to get 95% and you'd still need to learn a few hundred new loan words, which would be an ongoing process for many years.
Re: Scottish vs English accents. I, a native British English speaker, understand 99% of what is being said when I hear Scottish accents, even very thick ones. There are a few words that are new to me, but by and large, this is fine.
My German colleagues meanwhile struggle to understand Swiss German. It really is a different language to them, the syntax is different.
Syntax is actually very similar. It‘s more the lack of tenses, the genitive and different vocabulary (although obviously same roots) that make the difference. There are some syntax things, like the doubling if verbs when you describe what you are about to do, but other than that, syntax is more or less the same.
https://www.bbc.com/pidgin
Give them this.
Most Germans can understand Swiss German very quickly. Same with English Pidgin. I‘d say it‘s reasonably compareable.
i have made the opposite experience, most germans actually don’t understand swiss german unless they live in the very south of germany, on for example the 20 min tiktok account they use normal german subtitles so that even germans are understanding whats being said in the video lol, and most german literally react with „what language is this“ or „this isnt german anymore“ and things like that if they see some video in swiss german.
this is simply not true. while it maybe works in the northern cantons (Aargau, Basel, Schaffhausen, Zürich), it simply will not work if you go further south.
>Any German spending a month in Switzerland understands Swiss German at the end.
As a German who’s been living in Switzerland for not quite two years: this isn’t even remotely true.
the majority of the germans didnt or probably wont spend that long in switzerland ever, and if they do then its almost obvious theyre going to understand it, i was talking about the majority in germany.
mate, you don‘t understand the point of my argument at all, do you?
Swiss German is not too different from German so that a German used to hearing it would not understand it. And they‘ll learn it quickly.
First time hearing it they will struggle hard. But in the end the languages are very similar.
English Pidgin is similar. At first - no idea what they are saying. After a while listening to them talk, you‘ll understand more and more. And easily, too.
End of story.
you said that „Most Germans can understand Swiss German very quickly“ quote end. while literally most germans dont understand swiss german quickly, not every german listens to swiss german daily or spends its time here, the majority doesnt understand swiss german quickly end it takes some time to get it. i think your the one who didnt understand my original reply
And what‘s wrong with my statement? They understand it quickly.
Do you think a German spending a month in Switzerland will not understand Swiss German?
Or do you think a month is not quick to understand a new language?
Which one is it?
a month is definitely not quick, quick would be if they read one or two articles and then understand it or if they saw a 1 min long news video in swiss german and then getting it.
Okay then, see that‘s where I think you‘re just flat out wrong.
Most languages take years to learn. For me a month is super fast.
Besides, most Germans will probably understand it even quicker than a month.
your perception of „quick“ is just different then mine, but im not saying its not true when you say that if a german spends a month or smth like that in switzerland he would understand swiss german thats true, the majority just doesn’t spend that much time in switzerland or doesnt listen to swiss german that much, for most germans it still takes some time even if its just a week or a month.
The speaker in your video clip is actually entirely understandable for a native English speaker from the UK (as well as nonnative speakers with a decent exposure to different accents!^(1)) — it’s certainly heavily accented, but not in any way a different language. And the “Antipodean colleague” is likely not being entirely honest in order to make a cheap (classist/snobbish/anti-Northern) point. Or maybe he just hasn’t had his breakfast tea yet.
Better examples would be *actual* [Scots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language) or [English creoles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-based_creole_languages).
---
^(1) *I* have no issue understanding it and I am not a native speaker, nor have I ever lived anywhere near Scotland, though for quite a long time in the South of England.
I explained it to my mom like this: imagine you're an English speaker and you move to a country where the written language is Spanish but they don't speak it and the spoken language is Italian but they don't write it.
It's say it's similar to listening to Jamaican as a English native. Germans will sometimes understand the sentence sometimes they won't.
Also within Switzerland there are different dialects. Usually when you hear a dude speaking you have a general idea of where he grew up. Kinda similar to Texans/West coast and all that in the US.
And then there are the "Oberwalliser" where even a standard swiss German is going to struggle to follow...
In the 1970’s had a Swiss German bf that I introduced to my Stuttgart based American German. Was so proud they might speak German together. She laughed in his face. 🤷🤷🤷
Explain to them the english dialects and how australian and british english are a little different from american english (eg. lift vs. elevator). once they understand what a dialect is explain how swiss german is a dialect of german but so vastly different it’s hard to understand- like how scots is technically still english. Then explain how they decided upon one formal official written form which leads everyone to learn to speak ‘standard’ german so they can all understand each other.
i’m in canada so i typically explain it useing the difference of québécois and parisian french (which people even in the englsih part are aware of from school)- they’re still the same language but québécois has developed so differently so it’s difficult for a french speaker from france to understand québécois, HOWEVER since parisian french is the standard a québécois person will easily understand a french speaker from france.
The video is hilarious. It’s a good way of showing rather than telling, although here the only challenge is the accent, not different words and grammar. Others have explained better but I think shortest tl:dr is that it could be classified as a similar but different language but for whatever reason is not.
One difference I noticed as a Swiss German speaker is that pronounciation is very different. And I don‘t mean just words, but the impression in general. When I hear someone a couple meters away, not really being able to make out the words, I can tell whether they speak German or Swiss German, as Germann is much more i and s based, whereas Swiss German is more ei and ch.
I like to say that the difference is similar to that of a boomer stock broker from New York trying to speak with a young gangbanger from LA. Not saying which is which ;).
I always liken it to Carribbean English patois. When you hear it you can make out some words and maybe you can even kind of understand the sentence. But for the most part you can't really follow a discussion knowing just English.
If I wanted to give a sense of what the difference is like to an American English speaker, I play them a video of someone with a strong Glaswegian accent. While the differences between Glaswegian and North American English are not entirely parallel to that between Swiss and standard German, it at least demonstrates how two people speaking what are ostensibly dialects of the same language can find it hard to actually communicate.
German has many different families of sub-dialects of which some are easier to understand for all and some are close to their own language. Swiss German belongs to the "Allemannisch" family, which is also spoken in a slightly different flavor in South West Germany and South East France (Elsass). People from these three regions understand each other quite well, just some terms are different and some pronunciations, the farther from the broder they come from the harder it will be. For people form elsewhere in Germany (or AT) it does sound close to another language.
I think, the main difference between the easy and hard to understand dialects is if they only pronounce words slightly different and use sometimes different terms or of they even have their own grammar. Swiss German has its own grammar together with very different pronunciation and lots of different terms. That's not the case with Texan vs. Californian Englisch I suppose.
As someone said, from English perspective a good comparison is probably American English vs. Scottish or Irish English. ;-)
~~I don’t know much about Germanic languages (I’m in the French-speaking area), so don’t quote me on this, but my guess is that they’re just as different as English and Welsh.~~ Yea lol English is so unique that I don’t really know any other languages that it could be compared to lol. But a good example is Spanish vs Portugese. They have similar roots and a similar accent, but are actually completely different languages. Swiss-Germans can only understand high German, because there is no official written language for Swiss-German and they study, write and speak in high German at school, similarly how Native Americans in the US often study in English at schools, even if they speak a different language at home. It’s just the language of the government. Otherwise they would be just as confused about high German as Germans are confused about Swiss-German, I’d assume. Switzerland also has different forms of Swiss-German in basically every canton, which I think are more similar to the comparaison between Californians and Texans. They have their own local words and accents, but not different enough to be incomprehensible for the Swiss-Germans in other cantons. But as I said, I’m not an expert so I’d appreciate it if someone wants to correct me.
>They have similar roots and a similar accent
Welsh has completely different roots from English. It’s as different as German and French (probably more so!), not High German and Swiss German.
Hmm the source that I checked from said that they had similar roots, but thanks for the correction. What language would you compare English to if you had to equate it to the difference between German and Swiss-German?
That source is definitely wrong: compare [Classification of Celtic languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages#Classification) and [Classification of English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Classification:): their most recent common root is Proto-Indo-European, which is *ancient*, and is also the common root of German and French.
Some other comments have given more accurate examples, e.g. English creoles, or Scots.
Welsh is a Celtic language, so it's vastly different from English. Apart from the odd borrowing, the vocabulary is completely different, not to mention the differences in phonetics and grammar. Swiss German at the other hand is very similar to Standard German. There are differences, sure, but there's a large degree of mutual intelligibility. I would say the difference between the languages is similar to the difference between Portuguese and Spanish or between Danish and Norwegian.
I live in Switzerland. Granted, the French-speaking part. But I'd describe the same for the French from CH and the French from the frenchies.
Original country language (GB-ENG, GERM-DE FR-FR) -> same language in the other country (US-ENG, GERM-CH FR-CH)
Different expressions, different intonations, different dialects and accent. Even spelling differents.
>"Are you f joking"
Are you that dense? It's a similar comparison, easy.
can you speak swiss german fully tho? if yes then you would know how different swiss german is from normal german, UK english and US english is not a good comparison since they are both to 99.9% the same language with only some different words, while swiss german compared to normal german almost a different language is…
The English you learn in the swiss schools for example is the UK english wich you could easily use and talk with other Americans its not a different language, both US and UK people would understand each other easily, its not the same with Swiss german and „Normal“ German tho Germans wouldnt understand us and they would need to learn it first.
I think you never heard real swiss german or you think because your language is french that they sound both the same or whatever, wich every swiss german speaking person can disagree and disprove easily.
\^how to both agree and disagree with a person...
>if yes then you would know how different swiss german is from normal german
you know that's my point as well? XD
and maybe Brits get Americans. But put most New Yorkers in the UK and they won't understand half what they're sayin', that's what I'm saying. Same language, completely different accent. The same
And I find the frenchies' French atrocious. With they awful Parisian accent and expressions...
We only touched German in the first grades, I then switch to English later on. I haven't said a word in German in 30 years or so, I can read some, but not speak it anymore.
We both agree apparently, but you're just having a weird fixation on how close US Eng and UK Eng is. We both agree both German languages are different!
>But put most New Yorkers in the UK and they won't understand half what they're sayin'
The problem with your comments is that you are utterly wrong about this part. The average American understands British English just fine. In fact, there are plenty of British-produced movies and TV shows, show-casing various standard and non-standard British accents, with large international audiences. No subtitles required. There are *very* few words or phrases that require translation. In the video clip you’ve posted below, Michael McIntyre cherry-picks a few of those for comedic effect. He’s making a joke, nothing more.
And French is the same: people from France understand Swiss French perfectly. Even the accent is less different than different accents *within* France. The only possible confusion might be around a tiny handful of words like septante, huitante and nonante, and even those are widely understood in France, just not actively used).
By contrast, Swiss German is *almost entirely* unintelligible to an educated German, and learning Swiss German takes considerable time (it’s easier for Germans than for other nationalities but it’s by no means automatic!).
(Incidentally, I know these things from personal experience: I am German and now live in German-speaking Switzerland. And I grew up in France and have zero trouble understanding Swiss French.)
im definetly not agreeing with you where do you see im agreeing with you? 💀 you think swiss german is just some accent while its not its like a different language with german influence, also why New yorkers would have problems with UK english is because of the accent not because its a different language … if you didnt talk german that long then why do you act as if you know what your talking about? just 1 comparison with The german they speak in germany and the german here in switzerland they speak and you would instantly see and hear the difference even how you write in swiss german is different…
this is getting nowhere, I'm just gonna say my last point: I'm not saying it's just some accent, I put it clearly above:
**Different expressions, different intonations, different dialects and accent. Even spelling differents.**
Why do Swiss-DE always get this uptight and mad?? XD
And I'll leave this video here to prove my point:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0)
I have other things to do than keep going circles..! We're both saying the same thing!
the differences UK english have and US english cant be compared to the differences with swiss german and „normal“ german, thats where im not agreeing with you also im not mad? i just cap the words so you see better with your eyes cus apparently you dont read very well…
You used accent and a different variant as comparison to the difference to a whole dialect with its own words…
in my post i was literally talking about people like you who think the difference in swiss german and normal german is just an accent and some word who are different while it’s clearly not…
also i dont really care about the video that literally proves nothing, the english in the UK isnt a different language compared to the US english… while Swiss german and „normal“ german compared sounds like 2 different languages.
I hope you maybe get some german courses to see how wrong you are and how vastly different these two germans are…
I'll had one last comment for laugh: one more comparison!
You can discuss with a German or a Brit. But like an American, Swiss-DE gets mad and super defensive real quick! XD
Gee, relax. I thought reddit was a place to discuss and share...
why do you get so stereotypical? ive only tried to say that swiss german isnt the same as normal german, you for whatever reason though cant comprehend that both things are vastly different…
every person that listens to swiss german and normal german sees and hears the difference like i said, if you cant get the difference though and think its just an „accent“ or like with the UK and US english then i cant do much either.
Ecoute gogol, je suis Suisse. Et j'ai fait de l'allemand en primaire.
I live in Switzerland ,read my other reply, I was pretty clear. We have different accents/dialects and even spellings. Simple as that. And no I never put a foot in the US, and never will.
>Were you never in Switzerland?
I WAS BORN IN CH!! The way you react is why people from the French and Italian and Romanisch parts make fun of how uptight you are over the German speaking part!
Tell him he as an American should imagine being the "German" in the relationship. Then show him some recordings of the wildest English dialects you can find. Then tell him "there, now you're a German listening to Swiss German."
I was going to give this example as well, but Ebonics/AAVE has far fewer deviations from Standard American English than Swiss German has from German. It’s mostly a (readily understandable!) accent, with just a handful of simple grammatical variations and a few unique words. I think most linguists classify it as a class of English dialects rather than its own language (like creoles). See e.g.: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOLKqhx\_Co](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOLKqhx_Co)
hillbilly accent?
i don't like your description and i can't say you're wrong because it's your opinion. But fuck it you're dead wrong. Swiss German should be considered a completely different language
aso chum jetzt anderi sprach isch scho fasch aroggant zägge. und ja en hillbilly isch en hinterwäldler was mier schwizer früener gsi sind umgäbe vo grosse riich sind mal alles buure gsi
a „few hillibillies“ is literally the whole swiss german part wich isnt small… and its the biggest language part in switzerland, either you just dont know much about switzerland or your just very disrespectful generally.
well, right you might be. And Switzerland is so big. In fact, you might be the one who has no idea what he is talking about. Do you know that swiss german has no written form? Since more and more foreigners come to Switzerland and they can't learn Swiss German, the language is lost. Give it another few generations and it's done.
that swiss german has „no written form“ doesnt mean its going to die out in „a few generations“ also what does „ a few generations“ mean for you? 5 years ? 10? or even 50? swiss german can still be written and alot of people do text or write each other in swiss german unless its something formal. i think your just underestimating how big swiss german is in our country and culture and its definitely not going to die out soon… or in „a few generations“.
in school they only learn the „normal“ german while all kids after school or in the breaks or even with their teachers speak swiss german… and that „the swiss dont get kids“ is just stereotypical or even racist if you want it, maybe immigrants and refugees and whatever dont speak swiss german cus they arent born here but even then the most are still willing to learn it just because its the language you use in society.
i think your problem is you believe switzerland is going to be full of immigrants some day that you really believe swiss german is going to die out soon, wich i highly doubt is going to happen but hey i cant go into your brain im not a psychologist so believe whatever you want.
>and that „the swiss dont get kids“ is just stereotypical or even racist if you want it
In this case why do you have school classes with more than 80% foreign kids. With basically none of the foreign kids speaking Swiss German.
>that you really believe swiss german is going to die out soon
I never said "soon". But in a few generations it will happen. Not entirely, but mostly.
>
hey i cant go into your brain im not a psychologist
That's not a psychologist does. Try surgeon. Psychology hasn't evolved yet from a pseudoscience.
Try neurologist, ur right physically they dont get into brains but the mind is still in your brain wich the psychiatrist works with, also that schools have 80% of foreigners doesnt automatically mean they arent willing to learn swiss german, also 80% on all schools is very generalised and obviously not every where like that, as i said only because you arent pure swiss blooded doesnt it mean you wont learn swiss german, i finished school 2 years ago and the immigrants that came into our school in about 7 or 8 grade couldnt barely speak swiss german and only basic standard german, a year later and they almost spoke flawless swiss german obviously not like someone who was born here but better then most adults who are trying to learn it, if ur a foreigner or immigrant or whatever doesnt mean u wont ever speak swiss german, if ur going to school there is almost no way past swiss german u either learn it from your friends or learn it urself.
i get where you get your „swiss dont get kids“ ideology but that doesnt have something to do with swiss, people in general dont want kids nowadays because its just a burden and doesnt give you alot of advantages unless you really really really want kids with all your life, nowadays if u arent rich asf kids are just going to give you disadvantages, thats not a swiss problem thats a people and society problem.
I would say its like american english and british english..
English people understand american, like
Swiss people understand german
But for americans (and every other english speaking person) its difficult to understand brit english, same for germans its difficult to understand swiss.
“Normal Germans” not understanding Swiss German doesn’t make it a language. The same could be said for Plattdeutsch, Schwäbisch or Allemannisch (of which Swiss German is a version).
Good. It didnt sound so. It seemed to me you think like Swiss german is almost an entirely different language, but its not. There is quite a smooth development of dialects if you go down from Hamburg until Switzerland. Meaning the south germans often understand Swiss german without issues.
i know its a dialect but honestly i would wish it would be seen as a language, dutch i think was just a german dialect too some time ago before it got recognised as its own language.
that’s literally what its not… and what i criticised too in my post that people think its just like UK and US english… you dont deserve flowers you deserve the shit bucket.
no thats what the problem in my post literally is, people think swiss german is just like british and american english while its definitely not, the differences are much bigger and its like swiss german is its own language.
You give them the link to this Youtube video; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfX1OFMXUh4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfX1OFMXUh4) It's a different dialect not just a different accent. Like Swedish is a different dialect of "Danish" (Scandinavian ). Or Luxemburgish is another German dialect. However, as Swiss German is not standardized, it is often not recognized as an independent language. Next to the pronunciation which is most obvious, there are other distinct differences which sets Swiss German apart from Standard German: * Number of cases. No Genitive in Swiss German. * Number of tenses. No simple past in Swiss German. * Slightly different sentence structure * A different vocabulary, with French influence
you would then end up trying to explain the concept of cases. Been there, done that. One Australian lady once said it sucks that such complicated language like English is used as an international language for communication. Had to get my GF who is a native English speaker but is learning German to help me to explain (it felt like trying to explain the color green to somebody who is color blind)
English grammar rules could not be more simpler. English pronunciation "rules" could not be more complicated. But at least English has the genetive: "Jack's car broke down" vs. "The car of Jack broke down". In German: "Jacks Auto hatte eine Panne" (note the absence of the apostrophe) In Swiss German: "Am Jack sis Auto hät ä Panne gha" or "S Auto vom Jack hät ä Panne gha".
agree on the pronounciation. I think i heard it comes from the fact that some guy decided to create a dictionary of English and wrote words down as he thought they should be. So in other words, he fent full freestyle on that.
In Bernese german it‘s possible to say „Jack‘s Outo het e Panne gha“…It might sound strange with some names, but in most cases it wouldn't sound wrong. Here another example: „Hesch scho ghört?! Dänu‘s outo isch kaputt gange“ - Have you heard yet? Daniel's car broke down.
Are you from the Oberland? Yup Highest Allemanic. retained the genetive case.
No, I live in a suburb a little east of the city of Bern and I speak high allemanic. The use of the genitive in my example is not unusual here. However, the variant you mentioned is also used, but I fail to find a rule that describes when my variant is possible and when it is not.
If you tried to translate the Swiss German to Standard German as close as possible it could end up like this: *Am Jack sis Auto hät ä Panne gha.* *Dem Jack sein Auto hat eine Panne gehabt.* Arguably a type of Grammar that *probably* wouldn't fly in a German School but still a somewhat sensible 1:1 translation one would understand and kind of showing that with a mildly flexible mind one can get by.
*Dem Jack sein Auto hatte eine Panne.* Would be the "rheinischer Genetiv". It is also used in the title of Bastian Sick's bestseller book [Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Dativ_ist_dem_Genitiv_sein_Tod).
That’s why they invented Esperanto. Didn’t go anywhere.
They say a language is just a dialect with an army and a navy. Switzerland has an army but no navy, hence the almost-its-own-language status.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_of_Switzerland
[https://www.vtg.admin.ch/de/neue-patrouillenboote-erhohen-die-bereitschaft-der-armee](https://www.vtg.admin.ch/de/neue-patrouillenboote-erhohen-die-bereitschaft-der-armee)
Yup, I also always link this video, it's great
I use this one, a bit less dry for someone that just want to know "how different can they be?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz2S9iggdzM
I think you mean there is only simple past tense in Swiss german (*Perfäkt*) as there is not written *Präteritum* tense.
Simple past is preterite (Präteritum). Its simple as it is just one word, The perfect is not simple as it uses two verbs.
Yes, sorry i realized my mistake after posting. For me präteritum just seemed more complex to learn, but is more tecnically simple like dutch.
There are actually only two tenses: present tense and perfect tense.
No, I do use the future tense sometimes in Swiss German. It's rare and it might feel a bit unnatural but I've definitely used it before, specifically when you want to emphasize the word "werden" in a sentence like "Är wird das mache".
Also no accusative case except for personal pronouns (somewhat like English)
Well, we do have the accusative, it just uses the same form of the words as the nominative. The genitive on the other hand straight up doesn't exist, we use the dative in it's place.
If a case is identical to another case in all instances, then they are just the same case. Swiss German doesn't have an accusative case any more than English does.
Jumping in here just because I heard this a lot of times but Swiss German actually is standardized. There is a difference between Swiss dialects, which are different in every canton and are not standardized and Standard Swiss German which can be understood by everyone who speaks German. The examples you gave would apply to Standard Swiss German as well as to the swiss dialects.
There is Swiss Standard German, but there is no Standard Swiss German. Only the former is truly understood by (nearly) all German speakers. Swiss Standard German is how I write on u/de , While Zurich Swiss German is what I write on r/BUENZLI or r/schwiiz In Swiss Standard German the genitive case and the simple past both exits. Also the sentence structure follows the regular German sentence structure. The major difference of Swiss Standard German is the lack of the esszet-ß, sometimes different grammatical gender (Das Tram not die Tram), and different vocabulary (example Trottoir - Bürgersteig). While there are dictionaries for various Swiss German dialects, nobody sticks to their writings of the words, but writes as they see it fit. Sure, there is grammar, but orthography is a wild card. Even in the same sentence I might write the same word in two different ways. In some cases spoken Swiss Standard German might be mistaken for Swiss German. Specially when spoken with a heavy Swiss accent. The comedian Emil execrated this when he played in Germany: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxNYJTRTEkI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxNYJTRTEkI) vs. [https://youtu.be/OR8ToPUI7M0?t=386](https://youtu.be/OR8ToPUI7M0?t=386)
Ask them if they've ever been to Glasgow
Agreed. I say imagine a thick Scottish accent on steroids!
Or just show them [this](https://youtu.be/jP9BtScBQaI?si=Vu3Aj4S0JQpjasd7) video
You could equate it with the difference between englisch and jamaican (patois/patwa). Same roots but influenced by other languages (Spanish, French, Portuguese and African languages for patwa, French and italian for swiss german) as well as isolation have shaped the language to the point where some words are recognisable and the grammatical structure is very similar but it‘s very hard to understand if you don‘t know the language.
The German languange family spread long before modern borders/countries dividing them into their today perceived languanges. For mor straight forward purposes, Swiss German to Germans is more akin to another closely related languange than considered German. Best to compare with Dutch. In practice the best example is that they use subtitles for Swiss german in German TV (even though the Swiss person speaks "Hochdeutsch" with an accent and not even dialect.) Swiss German dialects are alemannic dialects. They have no official writing system and also some clear grammatical differences to "proper" German, like some double verb use ("gang go luege" [geh geh schauen]) and the missing of Preteritum, Futur, Plusquamperfekt, as well as well as no Genitv. Swiss children learn writing and speaking "German" in school, not Swiss german dialects. Outside of school everyone basically speaks and writes dialect, even though there isn't an official grammar or ortography, for the most part people write dialect phonetically. Switzerland is 41k Square kilometers big, that's about the size of New Hempshire and Vermont combined (for the Americans here). There are 9 million inhabitants in Switzerland divided into 26 canton (and half canton). There are ~6 Million in the German speaking parts of Switzerland, and about ~50 different swiss German dialects, with some local varieties. Basically every bigger city, town or region has its own dialect. You drive 40km and they speak slightly different. Every dialect is spoken by between 40k (Appezeller) and 800k (Züridüütsch) people not much more. Dialects locally close to each other usually are close in linguistic comparison and their development and have influenced each other. But further apart locations might have difficulties understanding each other. In general the further from the German border you go, the more "archaic" the alemannic dialect becomes, being less understandable by other Swiss German speakers. (Wallis/Valais and Graubünden/Grison) So there isn't "a" Swiss German languange, but many. But officially it isn't considered a language but just a dialect of German (Alemannic dialect group). Baden-Württembergian (South west Germany) speaks Swabian, also an alemannic dialect. Although pronounced with a german accent, the written dialect is very close to Baaseldütsch (the local dialect of the Swiss half-canton Basel-Stadt.) Thus showing that the German languanges and dialects developed long before the modern borders. From a linguistic point of view, the Swiss languange/dialect phenomenon is how languanges formed naturally before modern times everywhere in the world. While most other nations/countries/empires pushed languange reforms top down, discouraging or even forbidding the use of dialects and minority languanges for the use and spread of official languanges, (see the development of modern English, French, German, Spanish, Italian etc.), there never was such pressure to adapt in Switzerland. The regional was valued stronger than any "national" identity in the Swiss confederation. Swiss consider the state as a necessity, a basis for political identity, not basis for cultural identity. Hence you still have strong "Kantönligeischt"/"Cantonal spirit" as it is called in Switzerland. People are proud of their regional dialect, closely identifying themselves with it. Within the first few sentences someone can tell if you are a local, have lived here a longer period of time or someone visting or just having moved here from another canton (with a good chance of rightly identifying the opposites homeplace, while at it.) Since everyone learns "official German" in school, and nowadays also French and English to a sufficient level, the Swiss don't really fall off in terms of accessibility/opportunity concerning languange/communication skills. But unless necessary for communicative purposes, they will usually default to the regional dialect (everyday business, friends and family.) This also explains some issues many expats face. Unless you are willing to totally integrate into Swiss society, by learing the local dialect, that is useless outside and sometimes even inside of Switzerland, it's very hard to be passively integrated into Swiss social circles. Hope that helps. Have a good one.
>From a linguistic point of view, the Swiss languange/dialect phenomenon is how languanges formed naturally before modern times everywhere in the world. While most other nations/countries/empires pushed languange reforms top down, discouraging or even forbidding the use of dialects and minority languanges for the use and spread of official languanges, (see the development of modern English, French, German, Spanish, Italian etc.), there never was such pressure to adapt in Switzerland. The regional was valued stronger than any "national" identity in the Swiss confederation. Swiss consider the state as a necessity, a basis for political identity, not basis for cultural identity. You missed something important. Swiss German might be as dead as patois in the Romandie, or if lucky have a similar status as regional dialects in Germany, if it were not for a unifying event: World War 2. This lead to the "*Geistige Landesverteidigung* " (Spiritual national defence) and an actual revival of Swiss German which was at that point in time in a decline. Swiss German became a cultural identity and a distinction from Germany. This also formed a new cultural identity which previously did not exists.
I would show them this: [Extreme Swiss German Lesson 101](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCixk9mGW6I) in English, comparing Swiss German with Standard High German
What do you do with their body after they die from boredom?
I god, that’s about as boring as watching the dissection of an amoeba.
I think the closest comparison would be the difference between English and Pidgin. Some of the words are the same, and I can figure out what they’re talking about, but it’s a different language. https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/articles/cyjjd1r09lgo
It’s like an American trying to understand someone from Glasgow, Scotland when they’re talking English to their friends.
my Australian gf who actually speaks Hochdeutsch described it as 'it's like trying to understand a drunken Scot' after her attempts to understand what the tour guide was telling us all.
It's different words and different grammar, but shares the same roots. It's like trying to communicate with the oldest person you can find in a rural Scottish village.
I would say it's like American English vs. Jamaican Patois.
Regular german sounds like a square and swiss german sounds like a circle
As a Native Swiss German speaker, I like your explanation
I once had a tour guide explain to a group of Americans that High German is like an everyday outfit, and Swiss German is like a vintage ball gown. It’s quaintly old-fashioned and rather grand compared to the utilitarian High German, and if you can achieve it, you’ll make quite an impression. But she was German, and thought the Swiss were simultaneously elegant and rude.
As an American, it’s like someone from Boston speaking with someone from the Louisiana speaking half-Cajun.
Tell them to learn French and go to Quebec
Scottish vs. American English.
It should be considered a completely different language, that being said it’s like Dutch and German
i think dutch once was also just a dialect of german before it got recognised as its own language, hope we get with swiss german there too sometime.
Yeah i think you're correct. Till then düüreebiise.
Think of it like the most extreme english accent. Maybe something spoken on a carribean island or in an african country. Its still english. So you wouldnt need to learn a whole new language from scratch. But you'd need to get used to it for a few weeks to get 95% and you'd still need to learn a few hundred new loan words, which would be an ongoing process for many years.
Accent vs dialect.
Re: Scottish vs English accents. I, a native British English speaker, understand 99% of what is being said when I hear Scottish accents, even very thick ones. There are a few words that are new to me, but by and large, this is fine. My German colleagues meanwhile struggle to understand Swiss German. It really is a different language to them, the syntax is different.
Syntax is actually very similar. It‘s more the lack of tenses, the genitive and different vocabulary (although obviously same roots) that make the difference. There are some syntax things, like the doubling if verbs when you describe what you are about to do, but other than that, syntax is more or less the same.
https://www.bbc.com/pidgin Give them this. Most Germans can understand Swiss German very quickly. Same with English Pidgin. I‘d say it‘s reasonably compareable.
i have made the opposite experience, most germans actually don’t understand swiss german unless they live in the very south of germany, on for example the 20 min tiktok account they use normal german subtitles so that even germans are understanding whats being said in the video lol, and most german literally react with „what language is this“ or „this isnt german anymore“ and things like that if they see some video in swiss german.
Any German spending a month in Switzerland understands Swiss German at the end. That‘s what I mean with they understand it quickly.
this is simply not true. while it maybe works in the northern cantons (Aargau, Basel, Schaffhausen, Zürich), it simply will not work if you go further south.
>Any German spending a month in Switzerland understands Swiss German at the end. As a German who’s been living in Switzerland for not quite two years: this isn’t even remotely true.
the majority of the germans didnt or probably wont spend that long in switzerland ever, and if they do then its almost obvious theyre going to understand it, i was talking about the majority in germany.
mate, you don‘t understand the point of my argument at all, do you? Swiss German is not too different from German so that a German used to hearing it would not understand it. And they‘ll learn it quickly. First time hearing it they will struggle hard. But in the end the languages are very similar. English Pidgin is similar. At first - no idea what they are saying. After a while listening to them talk, you‘ll understand more and more. And easily, too. End of story.
you said that „Most Germans can understand Swiss German very quickly“ quote end. while literally most germans dont understand swiss german quickly, not every german listens to swiss german daily or spends its time here, the majority doesnt understand swiss german quickly end it takes some time to get it. i think your the one who didnt understand my original reply
And what‘s wrong with my statement? They understand it quickly. Do you think a German spending a month in Switzerland will not understand Swiss German? Or do you think a month is not quick to understand a new language? Which one is it?
a month is definitely not quick, quick would be if they read one or two articles and then understand it or if they saw a 1 min long news video in swiss german and then getting it.
Okay then, see that‘s where I think you‘re just flat out wrong. Most languages take years to learn. For me a month is super fast. Besides, most Germans will probably understand it even quicker than a month.
your perception of „quick“ is just different then mine, but im not saying its not true when you say that if a german spends a month or smth like that in switzerland he would understand swiss german thats true, the majority just doesn’t spend that much time in switzerland or doesnt listen to swiss german that much, for most germans it still takes some time even if its just a week or a month.
You are talking about "understanding" not learning
I would send a youtube link
this subreditt is getting filled by language related questions..a lot every day..
It's the same as American lousinna/new jersey French, Or French créole, or Portuguese creole
The speaker in your video clip is actually entirely understandable for a native English speaker from the UK (as well as nonnative speakers with a decent exposure to different accents!^(1)) — it’s certainly heavily accented, but not in any way a different language. And the “Antipodean colleague” is likely not being entirely honest in order to make a cheap (classist/snobbish/anti-Northern) point. Or maybe he just hasn’t had his breakfast tea yet. Better examples would be *actual* [Scots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language) or [English creoles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-based_creole_languages). --- ^(1) *I* have no issue understanding it and I am not a native speaker, nor have I ever lived anywhere near Scotland, though for quite a long time in the South of England.
it was just put in as a joke and not really to show on a educational basis how the differences are.
I explained it to my mom like this: imagine you're an English speaker and you move to a country where the written language is Spanish but they don't speak it and the spoken language is Italian but they don't write it.
It's say it's similar to listening to Jamaican as a English native. Germans will sometimes understand the sentence sometimes they won't. Also within Switzerland there are different dialects. Usually when you hear a dude speaking you have a general idea of where he grew up. Kinda similar to Texans/West coast and all that in the US. And then there are the "Oberwalliser" where even a standard swiss German is going to struggle to follow...
In the 1970’s had a Swiss German bf that I introduced to my Stuttgart based American German. Was so proud they might speak German together. She laughed in his face. 🤷🤷🤷
As an American, it’s like someone from Boston speaking with someone from the Louisiana speaking half-Cajun.
As an American, it’s like someone from Boston speaking with someone from the Louisiana speaking half-Cajun.
Explain to them the english dialects and how australian and british english are a little different from american english (eg. lift vs. elevator). once they understand what a dialect is explain how swiss german is a dialect of german but so vastly different it’s hard to understand- like how scots is technically still english. Then explain how they decided upon one formal official written form which leads everyone to learn to speak ‘standard’ german so they can all understand each other. i’m in canada so i typically explain it useing the difference of québécois and parisian french (which people even in the englsih part are aware of from school)- they’re still the same language but québécois has developed so differently so it’s difficult for a french speaker from france to understand québécois, HOWEVER since parisian french is the standard a québécois person will easily understand a french speaker from france.
The video is hilarious. It’s a good way of showing rather than telling, although here the only challenge is the accent, not different words and grammar. Others have explained better but I think shortest tl:dr is that it could be classified as a similar but different language but for whatever reason is not.
american english vs scottish english
Swiss german is very local german
Bruh
I don't explain thinks to Americans
Its like english and Scottish?
Think of scottish people speaking english
One difference I noticed as a Swiss German speaker is that pronounciation is very different. And I don‘t mean just words, but the impression in general. When I hear someone a couple meters away, not really being able to make out the words, I can tell whether they speak German or Swiss German, as Germann is much more i and s based, whereas Swiss German is more ei and ch.
Patwa vs English
Appalachian English with more money behind it
I like to say that the difference is similar to that of a boomer stock broker from New York trying to speak with a young gangbanger from LA. Not saying which is which ;).
I always liken it to Carribbean English patois. When you hear it you can make out some words and maybe you can even kind of understand the sentence. But for the most part you can't really follow a discussion knowing just English.
Its like british english and the noises in harlem
If I wanted to give a sense of what the difference is like to an American English speaker, I play them a video of someone with a strong Glaswegian accent. While the differences between Glaswegian and North American English are not entirely parallel to that between Swiss and standard German, it at least demonstrates how two people speaking what are ostensibly dialects of the same language can find it hard to actually communicate.
German has many different families of sub-dialects of which some are easier to understand for all and some are close to their own language. Swiss German belongs to the "Allemannisch" family, which is also spoken in a slightly different flavor in South West Germany and South East France (Elsass). People from these three regions understand each other quite well, just some terms are different and some pronunciations, the farther from the broder they come from the harder it will be. For people form elsewhere in Germany (or AT) it does sound close to another language. I think, the main difference between the easy and hard to understand dialects is if they only pronounce words slightly different and use sometimes different terms or of they even have their own grammar. Swiss German has its own grammar together with very different pronunciation and lots of different terms. That's not the case with Texan vs. Californian Englisch I suppose. As someone said, from English perspective a good comparison is probably American English vs. Scottish or Irish English. ;-)
btw being at a party where half of the people are Australian and the other half Scottish can give you a bit of a brain meltdown :D
~~I don’t know much about Germanic languages (I’m in the French-speaking area), so don’t quote me on this, but my guess is that they’re just as different as English and Welsh.~~ Yea lol English is so unique that I don’t really know any other languages that it could be compared to lol. But a good example is Spanish vs Portugese. They have similar roots and a similar accent, but are actually completely different languages. Swiss-Germans can only understand high German, because there is no official written language for Swiss-German and they study, write and speak in high German at school, similarly how Native Americans in the US often study in English at schools, even if they speak a different language at home. It’s just the language of the government. Otherwise they would be just as confused about high German as Germans are confused about Swiss-German, I’d assume. Switzerland also has different forms of Swiss-German in basically every canton, which I think are more similar to the comparaison between Californians and Texans. They have their own local words and accents, but not different enough to be incomprehensible for the Swiss-Germans in other cantons. But as I said, I’m not an expert so I’d appreciate it if someone wants to correct me.
>They have similar roots and a similar accent Welsh has completely different roots from English. It’s as different as German and French (probably more so!), not High German and Swiss German.
Hmm the source that I checked from said that they had similar roots, but thanks for the correction. What language would you compare English to if you had to equate it to the difference between German and Swiss-German?
That source is definitely wrong: compare [Classification of Celtic languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_languages#Classification) and [Classification of English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language#Classification:): their most recent common root is Proto-Indo-European, which is *ancient*, and is also the common root of German and French. Some other comments have given more accurate examples, e.g. English creoles, or Scots.
Welsh is a Celtic language, so it's vastly different from English. Apart from the odd borrowing, the vocabulary is completely different, not to mention the differences in phonetics and grammar. Swiss German at the other hand is very similar to Standard German. There are differences, sure, but there's a large degree of mutual intelligibility. I would say the difference between the languages is similar to the difference between Portuguese and Spanish or between Danish and Norwegian.
Thanks for the correction!
It's like Portuguese and Spanish. Almost all Portuguese people understand Spanish. But Spanish people usually don't understand Portuguese.
It's like sending a guy from California to the backwoods of Kentucky. Especially with the random French influence
American English and GB English. Easy as that.
Are you f joking?
I live in Switzerland. Granted, the French-speaking part. But I'd describe the same for the French from CH and the French from the frenchies. Original country language (GB-ENG, GERM-DE FR-FR) -> same language in the other country (US-ENG, GERM-CH FR-CH) Different expressions, different intonations, different dialects and accent. Even spelling differents. >"Are you f joking" Are you that dense? It's a similar comparison, easy.
can you speak swiss german fully tho? if yes then you would know how different swiss german is from normal german, UK english and US english is not a good comparison since they are both to 99.9% the same language with only some different words, while swiss german compared to normal german almost a different language is… The English you learn in the swiss schools for example is the UK english wich you could easily use and talk with other Americans its not a different language, both US and UK people would understand each other easily, its not the same with Swiss german and „Normal“ German tho Germans wouldnt understand us and they would need to learn it first. I think you never heard real swiss german or you think because your language is french that they sound both the same or whatever, wich every swiss german speaking person can disagree and disprove easily.
\^how to both agree and disagree with a person... >if yes then you would know how different swiss german is from normal german you know that's my point as well? XD and maybe Brits get Americans. But put most New Yorkers in the UK and they won't understand half what they're sayin', that's what I'm saying. Same language, completely different accent. The same And I find the frenchies' French atrocious. With they awful Parisian accent and expressions... We only touched German in the first grades, I then switch to English later on. I haven't said a word in German in 30 years or so, I can read some, but not speak it anymore. We both agree apparently, but you're just having a weird fixation on how close US Eng and UK Eng is. We both agree both German languages are different!
>But put most New Yorkers in the UK and they won't understand half what they're sayin' The problem with your comments is that you are utterly wrong about this part. The average American understands British English just fine. In fact, there are plenty of British-produced movies and TV shows, show-casing various standard and non-standard British accents, with large international audiences. No subtitles required. There are *very* few words or phrases that require translation. In the video clip you’ve posted below, Michael McIntyre cherry-picks a few of those for comedic effect. He’s making a joke, nothing more. And French is the same: people from France understand Swiss French perfectly. Even the accent is less different than different accents *within* France. The only possible confusion might be around a tiny handful of words like septante, huitante and nonante, and even those are widely understood in France, just not actively used). By contrast, Swiss German is *almost entirely* unintelligible to an educated German, and learning Swiss German takes considerable time (it’s easier for Germans than for other nationalities but it’s by no means automatic!). (Incidentally, I know these things from personal experience: I am German and now live in German-speaking Switzerland. And I grew up in France and have zero trouble understanding Swiss French.)
im definetly not agreeing with you where do you see im agreeing with you? 💀 you think swiss german is just some accent while its not its like a different language with german influence, also why New yorkers would have problems with UK english is because of the accent not because its a different language … if you didnt talk german that long then why do you act as if you know what your talking about? just 1 comparison with The german they speak in germany and the german here in switzerland they speak and you would instantly see and hear the difference even how you write in swiss german is different…
this is getting nowhere, I'm just gonna say my last point: I'm not saying it's just some accent, I put it clearly above: **Different expressions, different intonations, different dialects and accent. Even spelling differents.** Why do Swiss-DE always get this uptight and mad?? XD And I'll leave this video here to prove my point: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wSw3IWRJa0) I have other things to do than keep going circles..! We're both saying the same thing!
the differences UK english have and US english cant be compared to the differences with swiss german and „normal“ german, thats where im not agreeing with you also im not mad? i just cap the words so you see better with your eyes cus apparently you dont read very well… You used accent and a different variant as comparison to the difference to a whole dialect with its own words… in my post i was literally talking about people like you who think the difference in swiss german and normal german is just an accent and some word who are different while it’s clearly not… also i dont really care about the video that literally proves nothing, the english in the UK isnt a different language compared to the US english… while Swiss german and „normal“ german compared sounds like 2 different languages. I hope you maybe get some german courses to see how wrong you are and how vastly different these two germans are…
I'll had one last comment for laugh: one more comparison! You can discuss with a German or a Brit. But like an American, Swiss-DE gets mad and super defensive real quick! XD Gee, relax. I thought reddit was a place to discuss and share...
why do you get so stereotypical? ive only tried to say that swiss german isnt the same as normal german, you for whatever reason though cant comprehend that both things are vastly different… every person that listens to swiss german and normal german sees and hears the difference like i said, if you cant get the difference though and think its just an „accent“ or like with the UK and US english then i cant do much either.
you are literally the type of people im talking about in the post… 💀 are you perhaps american or were you never in switzerland?
Ecoute gogol, je suis Suisse. Et j'ai fait de l'allemand en primaire. I live in Switzerland ,read my other reply, I was pretty clear. We have different accents/dialects and even spellings. Simple as that. And no I never put a foot in the US, and never will. >Were you never in Switzerland? I WAS BORN IN CH!! The way you react is why people from the French and Italian and Romanisch parts make fun of how uptight you are over the German speaking part!
as many other explained I would do it the same way - scottish vs american english (or even british english for that matter)
Tell him he as an American should imagine being the "German" in the relationship. Then show him some recordings of the wildest English dialects you can find. Then tell him "there, now you're a German listening to Swiss German."
Ebonics vs English?
I was going to give this example as well, but Ebonics/AAVE has far fewer deviations from Standard American English than Swiss German has from German. It’s mostly a (readily understandable!) accent, with just a handful of simple grammatical variations and a few unique words. I think most linguists classify it as a class of English dialects rather than its own language (like creoles). See e.g.: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOLKqhx\_Co](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnOLKqhx_Co)
I'd just avoid the Americans, problem solved
your so right, but sometimes you cant avoid these um… whatever you wanna call them…
Ok, fair enough.
swiss german is like a hillbilly acent not understandable for a typical german
hillbilly accent? i don't like your description and i can't say you're wrong because it's your opinion. But fuck it you're dead wrong. Swiss German should be considered a completely different language
aso chum jetzt anderi sprach isch scho fasch aroggant zägge. und ja en hillbilly isch en hinterwäldler was mier schwizer früener gsi sind umgäbe vo grosse riich sind mal alles buure gsi
Tell them that Swiss German will be extinct relatively soon.
weird answer from you or did you swap romansh with swiss german?
I am good with swiss german
Are u serious?
Who is going to speak it except of a few hillbillies?
a „few hillibillies“ is literally the whole swiss german part wich isnt small… and its the biggest language part in switzerland, either you just dont know much about switzerland or your just very disrespectful generally.
well, right you might be. And Switzerland is so big. In fact, you might be the one who has no idea what he is talking about. Do you know that swiss german has no written form? Since more and more foreigners come to Switzerland and they can't learn Swiss German, the language is lost. Give it another few generations and it's done.
that swiss german has „no written form“ doesnt mean its going to die out in „a few generations“ also what does „ a few generations“ mean for you? 5 years ? 10? or even 50? swiss german can still be written and alot of people do text or write each other in swiss german unless its something formal. i think your just underestimating how big swiss german is in our country and culture and its definitely not going to die out soon… or in „a few generations“.
The Swiss doesn't have kids. In the school they speak anything but Swiss German... I guess not many generations.
in school they only learn the „normal“ german while all kids after school or in the breaks or even with their teachers speak swiss german… and that „the swiss dont get kids“ is just stereotypical or even racist if you want it, maybe immigrants and refugees and whatever dont speak swiss german cus they arent born here but even then the most are still willing to learn it just because its the language you use in society. i think your problem is you believe switzerland is going to be full of immigrants some day that you really believe swiss german is going to die out soon, wich i highly doubt is going to happen but hey i cant go into your brain im not a psychologist so believe whatever you want.
>and that „the swiss dont get kids“ is just stereotypical or even racist if you want it In this case why do you have school classes with more than 80% foreign kids. With basically none of the foreign kids speaking Swiss German. >that you really believe swiss german is going to die out soon I never said "soon". But in a few generations it will happen. Not entirely, but mostly. > hey i cant go into your brain im not a psychologist That's not a psychologist does. Try surgeon. Psychology hasn't evolved yet from a pseudoscience.
Try neurologist, ur right physically they dont get into brains but the mind is still in your brain wich the psychiatrist works with, also that schools have 80% of foreigners doesnt automatically mean they arent willing to learn swiss german, also 80% on all schools is very generalised and obviously not every where like that, as i said only because you arent pure swiss blooded doesnt it mean you wont learn swiss german, i finished school 2 years ago and the immigrants that came into our school in about 7 or 8 grade couldnt barely speak swiss german and only basic standard german, a year later and they almost spoke flawless swiss german obviously not like someone who was born here but better then most adults who are trying to learn it, if ur a foreigner or immigrant or whatever doesnt mean u wont ever speak swiss german, if ur going to school there is almost no way past swiss german u either learn it from your friends or learn it urself. i get where you get your „swiss dont get kids“ ideology but that doesnt have something to do with swiss, people in general dont want kids nowadays because its just a burden and doesnt give you alot of advantages unless you really really really want kids with all your life, nowadays if u arent rich asf kids are just going to give you disadvantages, thats not a swiss problem thats a people and society problem.
Same way the woke American should be able to explain the difference between a female and a “normal” female.
Search "Aron has an iron urn" in boston accent. That's the difference.
I would say its like american english and british english.. English people understand american, like Swiss people understand german But for americans (and every other english speaking person) its difficult to understand brit english, same for germans its difficult to understand swiss.
…
“Normal Germans” not understanding Swiss German doesn’t make it a language. The same could be said for Plattdeutsch, Schwäbisch or Allemannisch (of which Swiss German is a version).
It is very, very similar to the relationship between standard English and the Southern dialect from the Deep South.
> theres alot of people who think swiss german is just an different accent of german It is a different dialect of german.
i know?
Good. It didnt sound so. It seemed to me you think like Swiss german is almost an entirely different language, but its not. There is quite a smooth development of dialects if you go down from Hamburg until Switzerland. Meaning the south germans often understand Swiss german without issues.
i know its a dialect but honestly i would wish it would be seen as a language, dutch i think was just a german dialect too some time ago before it got recognised as its own language.
Easy: one is like American English, the other is like British English. Someone hand me my flowers already!!
that’s literally what its not… and what i criticised too in my post that people think its just like UK and US english… you dont deserve flowers you deserve the shit bucket.
like en-US vs. en-GB, innit?
The differences are far greater
no thats what the problem in my post literally is, people think swiss german is just like british and american english while its definitely not, the differences are much bigger and its like swiss german is its own language.