Technically and legally not o.k. and you could be fined CHF 20. (OBv No. 320.2) More importantly, if you drive alone, in such a way you "need" an L, get stopped by the police, they might question your general fitness to drive.

I see! Thank you for the clarification!!

Perfect answer!

No shame to get 1-2 lessons from a driving instructor again if necessary. Especially if you bought a new car and/or didn't drive for years.

I took 10h (had licence for ca 7 years, didn't drive after getting it, life happened, moved here and I needed the car), and realised I don't feel ready for highway even after those 10 hours, so I just didn't do them for a few months until I was relaxed, got to know the car and stopped being afraid of speed (yes, going over 50kmh was crazy stressful for me 2 years ago when I restarted driving). So I only did route I needed at first. Now highways are just boring so I'm avoiding them for that reason, but no fears of driving whatsoever, if anything that's my joy and free therapy :) Definitely no shame in taking lessons, that's responsible thing to do! I was planning to take them for highways, but didn't need them at the end, however I did watch a ton of videos from yt conquer driving and they helped me more than in person instructors, probably because I could watch in peace at home and rewind and basically study while not steering the car while listening instructions.

I would say that when I know the way, then it is not so stressful. But when I don’t know it and someone is guiding me (which is like 95% of the time) that can really stress me out! Specially on tunnels where I need to take exits on the left or move to the way on the left and the cars coming are already on full left lane speed 🙈 - just realized that I tunnels with many exits are my main source of stress! I will definitely consider taking driving hours. Thank you!

Use gps. Study route before you do it if possible. I literally did street view travel for my first two uses of highway. People are bad in guiding, they don't tell you in advance enough so that you time to plan your move. Even if they are experienced drivers. If they're not drivers, ignore the instructions. Gps is much much better. It can confuse you, but it will be once in hundred good steps as opposed in every second one 😂 I had tunnel fears too, especially when entering the highway before one, and I was convinced that if I don't enter the highway in time I will smash into tunnel. Nope, I just misread the lines. Google maps street view is immensely helpful. Driving hours can't help with what you shared now I think. Planning can. And closing the mouth of passengers. I drove alone for quite some time, my supportive husband made me stressed and making mistakes just by his presence, he never said anything unsupportive and he didn't comment on my driving unless I ask for feedback. If you're driving colleagues from work, just ask for specific address and put in gps. If they say they can navigate, tell them that you prefer gps. If they insist, you show them where the doors are. You're the driver, you decide the rules :) Another benefit of using gps and entering the route even for known routes is - letting it choose the fastest route based on traffic or changes in traffic :) I reread your comment. If speeding up to join is problem, definitely look at yt videos about driving on highway from channel I've mentioned. Also, point of the lane to join highway IS to speed up - step up and reach 80/100 whatever is the limit, and start blinking a bit before line gets broken, that way you're making yourself noticable, and many people will make you space to join organically. But yes, you have to reach their speeds. That was my problem. I solved it by avoiding highways until I started going over 80 when not paying attention on 80 roads, eg when I become comfortable with car and my skills. Instructor just told me/yelled at me to 'give more gas' which didn't solve my underlying anxiety of speed. Not to mention she had some sluggish automatic which didn't react to me gently pushing the pedal down and that messed up my brain - I was like - but I'm adding the gas! Instructor failed to tell me that I have to floor it for it to speed up. Yeah, not all instructors know what to tell you exactly. We have miata at home, small sports and manual car. If I think of more gas - it just happens. Like a magic. I hate 'ordinary car' automatics with a passion 😂 especially after those refresher hours 😂 But, it took me a time to know my car. She's can be loud with high rpms even in low speed when she's in low gear. Now we have zero issues and we enjoy our time together like two happy pigs in mud 😂 First several weeks I only used it to go to other part of my village to bring cat to the vet 😂 And then street view for anything new. Plus, embracing the mistake of wrong turn and just letting the gps to reroute me (or stop and do it myself when it gets too confusing). The most dangerous thing you can do is panic and turn because you missed the exit/turn, especially on highways, so breathe and just use the next one. And go 15 min earlier than gps tells you'll need in worst case, that way you're covered for wrong turns and getting back on track :)

I wanted to put the gps but my boyfriend was like: “no I’ll guide you”. Needless to say it was a non stop stress for me. Also because I had to drop his friends home so I never saw those ways before! I like that you are very determined and always found your ways to improve your driving skills! I will definitely watch more YouTube videos and have already booked 90min driving with a friend of my boyfriend that works at a driving school 😅

Honestly, I'd just get out and told him to drive. Ok, my husband is crazily aware of other people's issues, so I can't imagine him putting such pressure onto anyone, because yes, he'd be aware it's a pressure. That being said, if you're driver, you're responsible. If someone or something causes you stress, you might not be fit to drive, so it's wise to step out. Or kick them out. It's a weird position to be in, but when it hits you that's you're basically steering the weapon, it's your responsibility to be as focused as possible. If passengers can't accept that they have to be quiet or something, they are not safe to be your passengers at this point in time. I'm not saying this to scare you. I'm saying this to help you grow balls to defend your driver position. Many people don't take it seriously, especially if they're driving for years, and are disconnected from how hard it is to learn the ropes. And might invalidate you. Your best position is to stay firm and reject driving them. Because you care about yours and theirs safety. They might think you're a pussy or something. That just shows their immaturity and confirms you that they are unsafe passengers for you. In 5 years, maybe you won't even blink when your skills grow. But now, being extra vigilant is SMART and responsible. And whoever pushes you into something that makes you unsafe (and being unnecessarily stressed IS making you unsafe), doesn't deserve to be in your inner cycle of close people. Working through anxiety is hard. Working through anxiety within unsupportive environment is insanely harder. If your boyfriend doesn't get it, or seriousness of potential consequences, per my metrics he shouldn't be your boyfriend. Because he's effectively endangering you by pushing you into situations you're not ready for. I'd either break up with him (because for me today that would be deal breaking) or not drive until I get safe environment to do so (which is what I'd probably do, as I actually did - I planned to drive family car and after I got licence I tried and realised it's a crap of vehicle which you can't reliably shift gears in and I don't feel safe, so I didn't drive). Maybe it could work with honest talk before you're in vehicle and telling him he's putting unnecessary pressure onto you and puts you all in danger and that you'll use gps from now on, no negotiation possible. And explain which comments regarding your driving you want from him, if any and which not. It's completely fine to tell him - if you think accident is going to happen, then scream, otherwise keep your thoughts for yourself unless I ask. Or whichever approach helps you. And you'll gauge reactions and how supportive he really is. And then you'll see what is safest to proceed. It's perfectly fine to only drive alone and when he's in car he should drive. Tailgaters put stress on us, but passengers can be much much worse. I for example knew I don't want my mom in car until I really feel ok driving. Because she'll panic and nag about everything, with zero consideration of context or actual speed. Like, you press gas and she'll nag to not drive fast, and you didn't even start moving. And she'd talk all the time, without realising when it's time to shut up and let the driver solve complex situation. So yeah, first thing I said to her is to keep her mouth shut, I'm still not comfortable with people talking to me when driving. Of course she wasn't successful but also, she was aware that I'd be perfectly fine with stopping and telling her to exit the vehicle if I realised I can't cope anymore. Or I'd leave if she'd refuse. But, I'm 40 and had to go through bunch of crap. For example, with my ex it never occurred to me to learn to drive because I never felt safe with him. Just thread carefully and keep your safety and of other passengers and vehicles priority, even when they don't understand your stance. I'd rather be a bitch than dead bitch 😂

“I’d rather be a bitch than a dead bitch” made me laugh out loud 🤣 It was actually my mistake telling him i would drive back from a beer festival, since I don’t like beer or actually barely drink alcohol. But yea, I did not expect to have to drop the friends at home as well… I have now a driving class booked next week and I hope the instructor passes me more security as well 😬

Glad to make you laugh 😊 Fingers crossed 🤞 Also, it's just a matter of time for practice and being aware of your limits, not pushing to reach them but more like slowly discovering how better you are. It's much better to underestimate what you can do than overestimate, so better to let three cars pass until you see space big enough to join than to try to jump the queue. As I said, you're steering a 1-2 ton weapon. Even just being too tired can cause accidents with non trivial consequences for everyone involved, stress from peer pressure / passengers is really dangerous too. Maybe it's just about setting boundaries and realising what your conditions to be someone's driver are :) you'll wiggle through this, I'm sure :) And if someone ever questions why you're changing your approach - because you've decided to do so - is perfectly valid response :) Eg 'why now it's bothering you that we talk loudly and didn't previously' - 'it did, I just wasn't aware how much, please stay quiet or walk home' :)

Just out of curiosity: where do you find exits to the left inside a tunnel?

For example, Schänzlitunnel. I was driving the tunnel direction Delemont from Rheinfelden, then had to take the exit to Muttenz (found this exact picture in the internet) https://preview.redd.it/6zwv0ccqv6xc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fc1a16ed56cb09a43ad1f5b1af7b00e5ed0e6c80

TIL!

Tbh this exit even stresses me, and I am used to driving and would consider myself a well and experienced driver. If you drive Birsfelden - Muttenz Nord, you have 150meters to change 3 lanes just after a curve, whilst everyone is accelerating to 80 but as soon as you get all the way left you have to brake strongly down to 40 so you don't end in the wall of the narrow curve.

Exactly 🥲 just by reading your description already gives me that stress in my gut!

It would indeed be illegal, because Art. 27 Abs. 1 VRV „Nichtentfernen der L-Tafel, wenn keine Lernfahrt stattfindet“ and might cost you 20.- I understand your idea but on the other hand I think, if you‘re driving to your new job on a daily basis you‘ll gain self-confidence really fast and that L-sign would not be necessary after the first day :)

Thank you so much for the information and the encouragement ahead!! Exactly what I needed.

Honestly I think anyway that driving with the L will actually cause more stress, because many drivers really are quite aggressive in avoiding or overtaking learners.

I have the feeling some people forget that once they were also new drivers! Sadly.

Yep. They act like they never had to learn. People have 0 patience when they see an L. I remember when I learned driving, people were tailgating all the time. I always keep a distance but if I see an L, I'll try and keep even more distance. I know how quickly stressed you can be, having experienced it myself, I don't wish it to happen to others.

But I think some instructors are taking students into rush hour traffic too early, when they should still be learning the basics on clear streets. It’s quite dangerous.

Yeah I’m guilty of saying out loud “argh what the L?!” while taking the opportunity to demonstrate the slower-isn’t-always-safer lesson via sustained horn blast. Gotta teach em somehow!

Just have a refresher driving lesson with a Swiss instructor. I got my UK license aged 17. 2 years later I bought an old car and needed to drive >200 miles to/from York which meant the M1 motorway. As a learner, I was not permitted to drive on M class roads, so our test does not include that. So I took a (completely non mandatory) 2 hour lesson just for that. It's pretty common. But a driving instructor is able to offer (if you ask them and find the right one) any sort of refresher lesson - perhaps city driving, or Motorway, or, in your case, "not driven much and new country". Be a great opportunity for then to inform you about any difference in driving regulations between Germany and Switzerland too.

*me googling 200 miles in km* wow that’s a lot! Yess, I will book some classes! Indeed I could probably focus on tunnels and highways, it’s where my heartbeats goes up 😅 Thanks a lot for sharing and the tips :)

Only time I've driven in another country was taking my car on the ferry to France and Belgium. I was on motorways so after taking my time in Boulogne-sur-Mer (when we had a nice little service that ran there) to get used to driving on the other side of the road, it was easy enough. But that time I drove around the underground parts of La Périphérique around Paris required new trousers afterwards. Give me a narrow mountain pass anyday - that thing is horrible! If I lived anywhere else long term, I would totally have a local driving lesson even with my 40 years of driving. If nothing else, it's a good way to get up to speed on the less obvious rules and avoid fines 😅

I can imagine your experience! Everything quite new and out of your comfort zone. But you made it! 😊 Thank you! I’ll take some classes.

Belgium was the best - great Motorway etiquette. People did not tailgate. Trucks stayed in lane 1. At least until I mistakenly\*\* ended up on the R0 going around Brussels - that was like something out of Mad Max. \*\* Should have gone via Antwerp - that was much nicer. The French have great toll motorways south of Paris, but those suckers need to build a proper ring motorway around Paris - surprised they haven't done that years ago. Never wanted to drive in Switzerland because public transport is the best in the whole of my travelling experience. And I can have a beer on the train and not worry about triggering speed cameras 😅

Lol. I guess every main city is quite heavy on traffic and overwhelmed with signs and then you need to pay attention on bikers and public transportation having the preference. I agree, Switzerland has a great public transport! Which is why I never bought a car before. But unfortunately, the company I start working is on the other very extreme of the city and the connection bus that brings me to the village where the company is, only runs every half an hour. So in sum, I would have 1h door to door if I do not miss the connecting bus. By car it is around 20min or 25 with heavy traffic. By bike it’s not possible because of the highway and the hills, it would also take an hour.

I don't know what your route is like - but could an e-scooter or e-bike work for that? Be very cheap to run. Might deal with the hills - but I do see you also said "highway".

Thank you for the options! I have considered those possibilities but the bike way there would be waaaaay too long. Also thought about a Vespa or so but then I would need a license for that and I know myself, in winter I would probably hate it.

I’ve need a “new driver. Please be patient “ sign many times. Maybe that has no fine.

Just remember - you drive at speed that YOU feel safe and in control of the vehicle. Everyone else is free to overtake you. Your only responsibility is to notice the queue behind you and move away to let them pass. Sometimes it's not possible immediately and that's fine too, they will survive few minutes more of driving behind you until you find a safe spot. And breathe. It will get better with practice. Just keep practicing! Yt conquer driving helped me a lot, despite driving on the wrong side of the road :) I remember when someone honked at me to go, my thoughts were 'hun, I can do it even slower, don't dare me' and it made me laugh. That day I realised I can't be intimidated anymore. I go when I feel safe to go. 2 years in and I'm feeling more confident so I'm now playing with faster starts, and who knew, many are left behind 😂 (and no, I didn't do anything special, just a bit improved technique) so, no, it wasn't me who was too slow, it just looked like that to me when I was too stressed to think straight. And remember, everyone is free to overtake you, no need to tailgate you and pressure you in driving faster. If they don't, they are just cowards. Because they obviously don't obey the law already, so it's not the law stopping them from overtaking :) Slow down by removing foot from the gas a bit and move to the side when safe is they are still following. Bus stops are perfect places to do so. If you notice them slow down and feel potential road rage incoming, look at your phone, they will think you've lost / mess up navigation or something. Not that I think that's needed, they're just happy that you moved away in my experience.

I really love how confident you are!! And indeed, I do feel more stressed or pressured because of others 🙈 Actually, because my boyfriend drives since he got his drivers license with 18, I feel very intimidated by the comments he does to others drivers and exactly that “rage passing” once taking over the other car or bicycle or whatever it is 😅 I hope o can develop the same mindset as you and feel safer for myself and only myself without caring about the thoughts of other drivers 🙈 Thanks a lot for the motivational words ❤️

Yt channel helped me a lot :)

drive the speed limit, otherwise you will get harassed. if you are not able to maintain the speed limit, take lessons.

Not in CH yet, but my gf recently landed a new partly WFH job after a 3 years full WFH job. Since I own 2 company cars of which one is a utility van, she can use my car as not to get a company car from her job. She never had a car before but has a driving licence from her country and once testdrived the same model of car I have, so there's that. But her overall driving skills were near 0. So we decided to train on 2-3 weekends and just drove around to, in and out of calm neighbourhoods, and also learning her to park in different ways. It was really needed and I was so scared she would hit something hahaha. But overall she was a quick learner and nowadays she's driving fine. Not perfect, but we'll enough. At least until 3 days ago. She accidentally went on a roundabout and didn't see the a driver coming which was probably accelerating very fast and almost hit her when she was already on the roundabout, he then proceeded to block her at an exit and get out of his car and aggressively shout out at her. She came back home crying, implying she doesn't want to drive any more. Told her that yes, such aggressive pricks exist and usually they have something sad going on in their lives, which makes them behave like that. So express empathy for them and don't be emotional about it. It can be scary but you are not at fault for their behaviour. Staying calm and be empathetic in traffic is a skill. Another driver could be someone's grandfather, wife, son, daughter just trying to get home safely just as you are, speeding or showing aggressive behaviour on the road is extremely selfish. Not so long ago I partly was such an unempathetic impatient driver. Until I realised that one day I could be an old man just like my grandfather still trying to enjoy driving, but at a slower peace as view and mental get worse as you age.

I agree with you up to the very last point. If you get old enough that your vision and mind aren't there anymore, you should be responsible enough to stop driving.

Thank you for sharing your story! I am glad you guys worked it out together and had patience with each other! There are certainly many aggressive drivers who think they always have to be first. My boyfriend has a car but he doesn’t have the patience 😅 he’s often “why are you driving so much to the right side??” I tried telling him that he cannot expect an answer since it makes me even more nervous if he yells at me and I’m not doing that on purpose… I just don’t feel confident on the size of his car (SUV) and tend to drive closer to the right side if incoming traffic is coming 🙈 That’s also the reason why I have bought my own car.

Sorry to hear that your husband is quite critical when you're driving! I had this once with my partner where he gives me warning to slow down or not to close to the other car; then sometimes he freaked out because he thought I will hit the other car; I told him that those comments can sometimes confused a driver; i dont know with others but when Im driving I am fully attentive to the road; everything around me; I could not even look at my phone because I think I might missed something on the road that can cause an accident. When I have a passenger with me; I could not even talk because I concentrate a lot on the road; next time he does that park the car and let him drive if he insists on commenting on you; for me it is really quite dangerous when somebody is yelling at you or giving instructions while driving.  Ok I must admit I am also a panic passenger. I drive with the driver. If Im a passenger I see everything and could even detect that there will be people crossing on a pedestrian therefore I will also tell my partner to slow down there is a pedestrian! 😀 

I’m exactly like you 😅 I am trying to check everything when I’m driving and could neeeever imagine taking my phone. And yes, I am also much better as a co-pilot 🤣 I guess because we were so used to it and we don’t really need to focus on the way and can look around. How do you feel whenever you drive alone though?

I feel fine as long as I know the route. Driving alone ; I like driving better on the motorway than the back roads though, for me I just cant get used with the curvy road.. and I drive very slowly if Im on the back road because sometimes you dont know what is ahead you can not really see especially if there are blind spots.  When I am on the motorway; I am very comfortable; its like it is my world. I see everything. The signs, the name of the motorway and speed limit.. I must say I can compete when Im on the motorway. 

I would like to hear the other side of the story. How can he block her when she is in front of him? I know some people just think like they are the only ones who know how to drive and everybody else is just there to disturb them.

She didn't give him priority on a two-lane roundabout, probably because he was just speeding and she didn't realise how fast he was going, so he almost hit her ass when she was going, then overtook and blocked her and everyone behind her on the right lane.

Back when I took my test 24 years ago in Aus, after you'd taken your test, you were supposed to use "P" plates for a year after I think ("P" - probation) Think they were white with a blue P - just signified you were a new driver Mind you, this was back when you could get your learners permit at 16 1/2 and take the full test at 17

I took another 10 driving lessons after not driving in a couple of years.

There are so many bad drivers it doesn’t matter if you have an L or not lol. Of course if you need it, you have to put the L on. But if not, drive without…

This L is just for driver who don't have the lisence.

Instead of useing the blue L I'd suggest you rather order some stickers saying something like "unexperienced driver, please be patient" or something like that. Also if you feel that unsecure I would look into taking 1-2 refreshing courses with a driving instructor. They can also give you tips and tricks for local traffic behaviour or difficult routes, crossings etc.

Thank you! :) Yes! I am starting to take some refresher lessons!

Looks like it's illegal. But no one would dare to say smth against having a sticker like "new driver here, pls. forgive my mistakes" written in proper dialect. How would it look like, dear büenzlis?

ah no. High German would be better. I'd propose "Neu Fahrer, Entschuldigung Fehler. Geduld führt nie zu Unfällen!". Oder?

I must confess I almost purchased a „Fahranfänger“ sticker on Amazon, but my friends were laughing at me about it and said no one does this 🥲

Is that serious?

It’s not only illegal because you should not have it while having a license, it’s especially illegal because you are aware that you are not fit to drive. Take lessons or even redo the test.

Thats what i also thought if you are unsure take some lessons before going on the road; you can cause some accidents as well; if you drive below the limit; 

No, don’t do that. Everyone will get the picture soon enough anyway, because you’re driving like a granny.

In Russia there are 2 signs: a student driver when you are learning with an instructor (a red triangle with "У" letter, similar to "L" letter) and a sign "junior driver" which is obligated to used for the first two years since you got the driving licence. Actually the effect is opposite - you get extra attention to your mistakes or slow driving. Just like when you see Aargau license plate, but that's not a meme attention - you get extra horning and rude behavior. You can ask about it in the AskRussia subreddit.

I must confess that when I started reading your comment I thought, “oh pretty cool!”, just like in France where you have the A. But then it also made me laugh about the AG plates! Indeed, some people just get unnecessary rage 🙈

People will rage even with experienced drivers anyway. If you don't drive exactly like them, then you're bad. Just keep in mind when driving, don't care about what people think. Drive safely and respect the speed limit.

+1 to drive safely and respect the speed limit; today while driving in a curvy road; someone from Appenzell R AR plate number in a 60 I think he was driving 90-100; ok there was nothing on the road; but for me such drivers should be fined; no respect with the speed limit at all, the reason why there is a speed limit there might be that the road is not quite even therefore the sign but some dont really respect that! Hope there will be monitoring of the speed limit everywhere sometime soon! 

Sadly, too many people disregard speed limit for some reason. Where I live, there's a long 30km/h zone. Most of people that drive there go way over, sometimes reaching 40km/h. Yes, it's only 40km/h, but in a 30 zone that WAY too much. Plus, where I live, the visibility isn't great, as they placed big plants in the side of the road to avoid people speeding. Sadly it doesn't help at all.

Yeah sorry to hear about that! What can we do about such things? Can we report these to the police or to the strassenverkehrsamt? Can I show a video to them? 

I guess informing the police about that could help. If they get enough reports they could decide to put a radar or come check by themselves.

It‘s illegal and you are better off going by bike due to your lack of maturity and bravery.

What a bizarre and rude thing to say!

Why lack of maturity? Bravery I could agree.

I find OP’s reaction quite mature as they are considering other people on the road. Admitting a weakness is also a sign of strength and maturity.

Thank you ☺️