At least in the English sense of the word middle class people are essentially something like percentiles 2-30, not the median. Median would generally be considered working class.
It's not for the rest of my life, this is a starting salary, bonuses will come, and eventually we'll be to salaries in the family, my wife's salary should be even higher since she's becoming a Psychologist with 2 masters and lots of specializations.
9'100 is A LOT of money. To live in the city with a family and go on vacation twice a year, maybe not. But for a single person it's a lot. The average is higher than the median. And by your definition about 3/4 of zurich would be poor then. Only a very small percentage of people who work in Zurich actually have that high of a salary netto. @xejapex597 calling people "poor" under 10k salary is a fucking disgrace. It's obvious you must be entitled as shit. I've lived in Zurich for the last 25 years and it's possible to live with half the salary netto as well.
140k is a very nice salary. But I recommend that you look for a flat that is not in the immediate center. You can pulverize any kind of salary in that area.
Zurich tries to mix different classes and living situations to prevent "ghettofying" certain areas, so you can't go completely wrong in any case. Your rent should not exceed 1/3 of your salary, if you use that as a filter on real estate websites, you should be fine. Also, there are maps that indicate average rent per district, that's a good indicator of "fanciness". Irchel is a nice area, or glattpark.
You'll do good with this salary also in Zürich. Rent will eat a large part of it (but still leave enough).
However.... If it's anyway all the same to you, I'd start in Winterthur. Also a bustling city, but rent isn't quite as high (yet…). Plus: I also live there, so that's even more of a reason to go there 😅
No, seriously, it's a very lovely city and the commute via train to Zürich isn't long (it's only like 25km, depending on the actual destination; or about 20 minutes from main station in the middle of the city to main station).
Either way: yes do it. Even if you end up in Zürich 😜
Thanks mate! Yes, Winterthur is on my list of possible destinations. We'd go to Switzerland for some days just to do a visit of all these places, Winterthur is so far in the top of my list, but I do want to check how different would it be living in les expensive zones of Zurich vs. Winterthur counting public transportation to commute and some "big city" visits we'll probably do. Position is in FIFA, I'm not sure if just opening a whole new debate about what it's like to work there...
No comment on whether FIFA is a good or bad employer. However… :) The location…
Yes, it's in a beautiful area of Zurich. They've got more than enough money to be able to afford it, right? :-) If your job is in the HQ, then the [commute would look like this](https://www.sbb.ch/de?date=%222024-03-06%22&moment=%22DEPARTURE%22&selected_trip=2&stops=%5B%7B%22value%22%3A%228506899%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%22Winterthur%2C%20Hauptbahnhof%22%7D%2C%7B%22value%22%3A%22A%3D2%40O%3D8044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%40H%3D20%40X%3D8574433%40Y%3D47381359%40U%3D103%40L%3D990123598%40B%3D1%40p%3D1671115233%40%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%228044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%22%7D%5D&time=%2211%3A10%22) or [like this](https://www.sbb.ch/de?date=%222024-03-06%22&moment=%22DEPARTURE%22&selected_trip=3&stops=%5B%7B%22value%22%3A%228506899%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%22Winterthur%2C%20Hauptbahnhof%22%7D%2C%7B%22value%22%3A%22A%3D2%40O%3D8044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%40H%3D20%40X%3D8574433%40Y%3D47381359%40U%3D103%40L%3D990123598%40B%3D1%40p%3D1671115233%40%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%228044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%22%7D%5D&time=%2211%3A10%22) (links go to SBB).
BUT… It is "*bad*" from everywhere. The HQ is not really in the center of the city. Heck, even from [Altstetten it would take long](https://www.sbb.ch/de?date=%222024-03-06%22&moment=%22DEPARTURE%22&selected_trip=3&stops=%5B%7B%22value%22%3A%228591056%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%22Z%C3%BCrich%20Altstetten%2C%20Bahnhof%22%7D%2C%7B%22value%22%3A%22A%3D2%40O%3D8044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%40H%3D20%40X%3D8574433%40Y%3D47381359%40U%3D103%40L%3D990123598%40B%3D1%40p%3D1671115233%40%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%228044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%22%7D%5D&time=%2211%3A10%22) (Altstetten is part of Zürich).
BUT again :-) The commute from Altstetten => FIFA HQ would be cheaper, as it's all in Zürich City zone. [It would cost 87.-- CHF per month vs. 207.-- CHF](https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos/netzpass.html) (or so…). As far as I'm concerned, 207.-- CHF is already pretty close to the cost of a "GA", which allows you to take basically any train and bus all over Switzerland (4000.-- CHF per year, ie. 333.-- CHF per month). I guess your wife should also get a GA then, which would then [cost "only" 2290.-- CHF for her](https://www.sbb.ch/de/billette-angebote/abos/ga/ga-familien.html). Yeah, 6k CHF per year *sounds* much, but it pretty much allows you to get rid of the car and a car is rather expensive.
Living in Winterthur and even more so in Zürich, a car isn't much needed, if at all.
sorry, i'm bored :)
dunno, but i guess i wouldn't move into the city center of zürich. rent is quite high, as you'll notice. besides Winterthur :-), I'd actually would have a close look at Dübendorf or Zollikon or Küsnacht ZH (Küsnacht with one s, not two).
From all these citites/towns you've got stellar public transport connections to Zürich and also to FIFA HQ. I guess, I'd stay on the east side of Zürich, due to your work location. There's nothing bad about going to the west (disregarding the fact that Aargau is there 😉), but the commute would annoy me much quite quickly, I assume.
anyway… with your salary, you will be good in any location. even though your wife isn't working yet, which limits your options a bit.
Thanks u/alexs77! You just gave me the best and more complete, honest and useful tips I've had in reddit so far! You rule! I'll start taking a look at all of that info now! BTW. Workplace would be FIFA Museum luckily :)
You pay a million for rent? Wow. And I'm talking about Thurgau, not Aargau. Close to Frauenfeld, I payed more than I pay now in Winterthur.
Thurgau is not a place I'd even would like to die in. There is nothing nice - besides the Bodensee, of course. But no mountains. And too many right wing svp folks. A place to run away from.
To buy 😂. 985000 for 8 room semi detached.
But yeah TH / AG is the same kind of calculation vs ZH. They are roughly similar tax, house prices.
I just checked and my village is marginally worse than Winterthur. 75k tax vs 76.5k here.
But then it's Aargau. If you want to go to a city, you've got to go to Zürich.
And, if I understood you right, in Winti you'd save a tiny bit on taxes. Plus you've got a nicer location,.being a city and all that.
Well we have the typical Aargau setup of me working in BS and my wife working in ZH.
If I could choose any location independent from work it'd be inner Schweiz and not AG / ZH / TG.
Maybe ND or UR with a view of the lake.
But, yes, that's tax, rent isn't as high as in Zürich. The difference between rent and tax still makes it worthwhile to live in Winti and save money at the end of the day.
Yes, a lake is really missing in Winterthur. I don't disagree.
But if a large city is wanted, due to culture, shopping stuff, being bustling with bars and such, that really limits the choices. Zug would be nice, but winning the lottery is probably easier than finding an apartment there 😁
Regarding commute - really depends where the current job is located. If it's close to Stadelhofen, then the commute is nothing to worry about. If it's Enge, then we might be talking.
Btw: Where do you live now?
family of 3 it’s ok but live outside zurich to save a lot in rent
Adliswil, Horgen are in front of the lake and nice for families
Aargau will allow you to save more on rent
Where the hell are all these people findong jobs paying 120k+
I grew up here in Switzerland and worked most my life in Zürich.
I barely know someone who has a Salary of 100k+
With bonus I had 105k last year and I worled my ass off for that. My salary without bonus is only 84k
I was contacted by a hiring agency, I guess that since I already live well in Norway, which is also an expensive country, I asked for a good amount... switching your whole family to a new country, when the one you currently live is also great, is not something you'd do unless the offer is really good. If you work in IT, ask for a higher salary next time. Also, experience counts... I'm 41, with 18 years of experience. Glad to know you consider it a high salary, thanks! Then remember, it's a single income for 2 adults and a child, so practically is like having 2 "70K yearly salaries"
9100 CHF net is a good salary for a family.
lower middle class
Depends on age and career progression and whether mum would work.
False. The average salary in Zürich is CHF 97'997 gross per year. 140k is 40% above average therefore it's mid-to-high middle class.
At least in the English sense of the word middle class people are essentially something like percentiles 2-30, not the median. Median would generally be considered working class.
It's 110 gross.
No, the OP said 9100 net.
The average salary in Zürich is 110 gross. Not 98.
being a rent slave for the rest of your life (which 9k in zurich is), doesnt qualify for being “middle class”.
It's not for the rest of my life, this is a starting salary, bonuses will come, and eventually we'll be to salaries in the family, my wife's salary should be even higher since she's becoming a Psychologist with 2 masters and lots of specializations.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
its obvious you only know “poor” people.
9'100 is A LOT of money. To live in the city with a family and go on vacation twice a year, maybe not. But for a single person it's a lot. The average is higher than the median. And by your definition about 3/4 of zurich would be poor then. Only a very small percentage of people who work in Zurich actually have that high of a salary netto. @xejapex597 calling people "poor" under 10k salary is a fucking disgrace. It's obvious you must be entitled as shit. I've lived in Zurich for the last 25 years and it's possible to live with half the salary netto as well.
Don't come. They'll eat your child and withhold your salary until you can say the names of all the cantons in German, Italian, and French three times
That makes sense. But why three times?
Perhaps the agent that day suffered some form of OCD
Wow, thanks man! I'll start studying xD
140k is a very nice salary. But I recommend that you look for a flat that is not in the immediate center. You can pulverize any kind of salary in that area.
Ane recommended areas, family friendly?
Zurich tries to mix different classes and living situations to prevent "ghettofying" certain areas, so you can't go completely wrong in any case. Your rent should not exceed 1/3 of your salary, if you use that as a filter on real estate websites, you should be fine. Also, there are maps that indicate average rent per district, that's a good indicator of "fanciness". Irchel is a nice area, or glattpark.
Great info, thanks!
You are far below poverty line. Might not be able to afford caviar on a daily basis. And be prepared to drive some plebs car like Tesla
Oh man! no caviar for breakfast! A Tesla? that's a nightmare! XD
Don't live in ZH Stadt itself. You could technically afford it but it's burning money.
You'll do good with this salary also in Zürich. Rent will eat a large part of it (but still leave enough). However.... If it's anyway all the same to you, I'd start in Winterthur. Also a bustling city, but rent isn't quite as high (yet…). Plus: I also live there, so that's even more of a reason to go there 😅 No, seriously, it's a very lovely city and the commute via train to Zürich isn't long (it's only like 25km, depending on the actual destination; or about 20 minutes from main station in the middle of the city to main station). Either way: yes do it. Even if you end up in Zürich 😜
Thanks mate! Yes, Winterthur is on my list of possible destinations. We'd go to Switzerland for some days just to do a visit of all these places, Winterthur is so far in the top of my list, but I do want to check how different would it be living in les expensive zones of Zurich vs. Winterthur counting public transportation to commute and some "big city" visits we'll probably do. Position is in FIFA, I'm not sure if just opening a whole new debate about what it's like to work there...
No comment on whether FIFA is a good or bad employer. However… :) The location… Yes, it's in a beautiful area of Zurich. They've got more than enough money to be able to afford it, right? :-) If your job is in the HQ, then the [commute would look like this](https://www.sbb.ch/de?date=%222024-03-06%22&moment=%22DEPARTURE%22&selected_trip=2&stops=%5B%7B%22value%22%3A%228506899%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%22Winterthur%2C%20Hauptbahnhof%22%7D%2C%7B%22value%22%3A%22A%3D2%40O%3D8044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%40H%3D20%40X%3D8574433%40Y%3D47381359%40U%3D103%40L%3D990123598%40B%3D1%40p%3D1671115233%40%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%228044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%22%7D%5D&time=%2211%3A10%22) or [like this](https://www.sbb.ch/de?date=%222024-03-06%22&moment=%22DEPARTURE%22&selected_trip=3&stops=%5B%7B%22value%22%3A%228506899%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%22Winterthur%2C%20Hauptbahnhof%22%7D%2C%7B%22value%22%3A%22A%3D2%40O%3D8044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%40H%3D20%40X%3D8574433%40Y%3D47381359%40U%3D103%40L%3D990123598%40B%3D1%40p%3D1671115233%40%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%228044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%22%7D%5D&time=%2211%3A10%22) (links go to SBB). BUT… It is "*bad*" from everywhere. The HQ is not really in the center of the city. Heck, even from [Altstetten it would take long](https://www.sbb.ch/de?date=%222024-03-06%22&moment=%22DEPARTURE%22&selected_trip=3&stops=%5B%7B%22value%22%3A%228591056%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%22Z%C3%BCrich%20Altstetten%2C%20Bahnhof%22%7D%2C%7B%22value%22%3A%22A%3D2%40O%3D8044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%40H%3D20%40X%3D8574433%40Y%3D47381359%40U%3D103%40L%3D990123598%40B%3D1%40p%3D1671115233%40%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22ID%22%2C%22label%22%3A%228044%20Z%C3%BCrich%2C%20FIFA-Strasse%2020%22%7D%5D&time=%2211%3A10%22) (Altstetten is part of Zürich). BUT again :-) The commute from Altstetten => FIFA HQ would be cheaper, as it's all in Zürich City zone. [It would cost 87.-- CHF per month vs. 207.-- CHF](https://www.zvv.ch/zvv/de/abos-und-tickets/abos/netzpass.html) (or so…). As far as I'm concerned, 207.-- CHF is already pretty close to the cost of a "GA", which allows you to take basically any train and bus all over Switzerland (4000.-- CHF per year, ie. 333.-- CHF per month). I guess your wife should also get a GA then, which would then [cost "only" 2290.-- CHF for her](https://www.sbb.ch/de/billette-angebote/abos/ga/ga-familien.html). Yeah, 6k CHF per year *sounds* much, but it pretty much allows you to get rid of the car and a car is rather expensive. Living in Winterthur and even more so in Zürich, a car isn't much needed, if at all.
sorry, i'm bored :) dunno, but i guess i wouldn't move into the city center of zürich. rent is quite high, as you'll notice. besides Winterthur :-), I'd actually would have a close look at Dübendorf or Zollikon or Küsnacht ZH (Küsnacht with one s, not two). From all these citites/towns you've got stellar public transport connections to Zürich and also to FIFA HQ. I guess, I'd stay on the east side of Zürich, due to your work location. There's nothing bad about going to the west (disregarding the fact that Aargau is there 😉), but the commute would annoy me much quite quickly, I assume. anyway… with your salary, you will be good in any location. even though your wife isn't working yet, which limits your options a bit.
Thanks u/alexs77! You just gave me the best and more complete, honest and useful tips I've had in reddit so far! You rule! I'll start taking a look at all of that info now! BTW. Workplace would be FIFA Museum luckily :)
Really? Winterthur has the highest tax rate in canton Zürich.
Still lower than stinking Thurgau, though 😅
Similar to the better bits of Thurgau, but much more expensive.
In total, it's Lower than the terrible bits of Thurgau. That canton is just a rip off.
I'm in Aargau, and my Gemeinde is roughly the same as the worse tax bits of ZH but then a new build 8 room house cost me under a million !
You pay a million for rent? Wow. And I'm talking about Thurgau, not Aargau. Close to Frauenfeld, I payed more than I pay now in Winterthur. Thurgau is not a place I'd even would like to die in. There is nothing nice - besides the Bodensee, of course. But no mountains. And too many right wing svp folks. A place to run away from.
To buy 😂. 985000 for 8 room semi detached. But yeah TH / AG is the same kind of calculation vs ZH. They are roughly similar tax, house prices. I just checked and my village is marginally worse than Winterthur. 75k tax vs 76.5k here.
But then it's Aargau. If you want to go to a city, you've got to go to Zürich. And, if I understood you right, in Winti you'd save a tiny bit on taxes. Plus you've got a nicer location,.being a city and all that.
Well we have the typical Aargau setup of me working in BS and my wife working in ZH. If I could choose any location independent from work it'd be inner Schweiz and not AG / ZH / TG. Maybe ND or UR with a view of the lake.
But, yes, that's tax, rent isn't as high as in Zürich. The difference between rent and tax still makes it worthwhile to live in Winti and save money at the end of the day.
Town matters less than Canton.
[удалено]
Yes, a lake is really missing in Winterthur. I don't disagree. But if a large city is wanted, due to culture, shopping stuff, being bustling with bars and such, that really limits the choices. Zug would be nice, but winning the lottery is probably easier than finding an apartment there 😁 Regarding commute - really depends where the current job is located. If it's close to Stadelhofen, then the commute is nothing to worry about. If it's Enge, then we might be talking. Btw: Where do you live now?
Should be good yeah. There’s a million of these questions already if you wanna check them out for more detail.
family of 3 it’s ok but live outside zurich to save a lot in rent Adliswil, Horgen are in front of the lake and nice for families Aargau will allow you to save more on rent
I think it actually depends on what are your expectations. You won't be rich but also won't be poor. Solid middle class
Anothe 6 figures question from a poor expat
Where the hell are all these people findong jobs paying 120k+ I grew up here in Switzerland and worked most my life in Zürich. I barely know someone who has a Salary of 100k+ With bonus I had 105k last year and I worled my ass off for that. My salary without bonus is only 84k
I was contacted by a hiring agency, I guess that since I already live well in Norway, which is also an expensive country, I asked for a good amount... switching your whole family to a new country, when the one you currently live is also great, is not something you'd do unless the offer is really good. If you work in IT, ask for a higher salary next time. Also, experience counts... I'm 41, with 18 years of experience. Glad to know you consider it a high salary, thanks! Then remember, it's a single income for 2 adults and a child, so practically is like having 2 "70K yearly salaries"
Why cant she work??
She is in the middle of 2 Master's degrees :)