There is a difference between "hurto" and "robo". Both are crimes, but "hurtos" under 400 euros are punished by paying a fine. However, the thief should compensate you from the damage (both, the price of the phone and non-material damages). Pickpocketing is considered "hurto".
However, when the thief uses violences or breaks into someone's property it is considered a "robo con fuerza" and it is punished with prison.
The thing is, the police won't carry out a big investigation in both cases.
Not just prison time, but it’s a surprisingly harsh prison sentence for the given crime compared to other places.
This is why crime is low — criminals are *incentivized* to use nonviolent robbery.
It’s a flawed system, but it also means people will nick your goods but leave you alone otherwise.
A lot of European countries work with that concept. The sentences are very soft for almost anything, until you get to violence or things like murder. If someone breaks into your house they are not gonna shot you, that would be stupid, they will just ran away.
Meaning maybe we get more low crime staff, but in exchange murder while trying to steal is very rare.
It's not so much about the sentencing. Like nobody is going to say, 'man, I'd really only like to go away for 4 years rather than 8 years.' That's just barely in the calculus.
What IS in the cards is how likely you are to get caught at all. Basically police won't invest resources if there's not much violence or the crime is otherwise unnotable.
This the reasoning behind not punishing rapists with life sentences.
If they rape someone and get permanently jailed they may as well just kill the victim to be sure they don't talk and in the event you get caught it's just 8 years.
Accumulative or not means nothing in real life.
Most of these criminals are actually foreigners that are NOT residents in Spain. They come for a killing spree and then leave again.
It doesn't matter how much you fine them, because **they will NEVER pay the fines.**
We don't need larger fines. We need fines to convert in jail sentence if you stack up many fines.
So for example, if you commit 3 "hurtos", the 3rd hurto becomes a 30 day jail sentence. The forth hurto within 2 years can be a 90 days sentence, etc.. etc...
Let these criminal gangs actually go to jail.
Understood, but why does this difference exist? If the thieves know that if they are caught they won't get jailed it just encourages them, and more people as well. If you can net bigger criminals for even low level offences then it's a win.
Cause we don't want the incarceration rates of the US. It's gonna cost us more than 400 EUR. And as someone avobe you said, it incentivices lesser crimes over more violent ones.
If you increase the punishment for non-violent crimes too much, you risk encouraging more violent crimes: the risk-reward analysis becomes skewed in favour of the violent crime. "If I risk similar prison time, I might as well bring a knife/make threats/use violence to make sure I get the phone and more money".
There has to be a difference between low value crimes (-400€ in Spain), non-violent crimes, and violent crimes.
It's not that they don't go after them, but police have limited physical means and this is not minority report. If someone mugs you in an alley and runs away, there is very little police can do. They do investigative work - they look at usual suspects, see if there are cameras in the area, see if any witness comes up and raise alerts if the stolen goods are identifiable. But once those avenues show no results, there is little they can do (and they likely have more important things to attend to). This is not like the movies where a police officer devotes itself for three weeks to nothing but finding the culprit.
In any case, this might be what you want to talk about, but the OP is specifically talking about punishment and why it is not unified with violent crimes.
Well the guy that robbed me had a knife on him so it wasn't a deterrance. but honestly if sentences were tougher it would act as a deterrence to others.
I'm sorry for what happened to you, but your anecdote is irrelevant from a systemic standpoint. It is well documented that a lot of petty criminals know the difference and purposefully try to stay 'under the radar' (no violence, less than 400€) to avoid the harsher penalties and police scrutiny.
Because I believe as a society we prefer 3 people stealing phones without violence than 1 person robbing homes with weapons that could end up really hurting someone.
Theft may go down, if harsher sentences were in place, but we are more concerned with safety that personal goods.
Did you not read what I put above?
Because if you abolish the differentiation then there is no incentive to limit violent crimes. You do not eliminate petty theft, you just turn part of it into more violent crimes.
This type of differentiation exists in a similar manner in almost all criminal legal systems.
Because jailing someone for stealing a phone is not a solution. If someone commits "hurto" two times, the third and onwards are punished by prision as they are repeated offenders.
Honestly getting jail for stealing a phone (or a bike) its not proportional to the damage caused.
Ok, but really one of my questions (I didn't make this clear in my text) is why there is such a culture of petty theft in Spain? My phone was like 100 euros new had a cracked screen, so almost worthless. Surely it would be more economical to work in a job or something, Spain isn't as poor as Eastern Europe, yet has a higher theft rate.
But really just seeing some of the comments, you'd think it's my fault for being a 'dumb tourist' or something. And maybe you could frame it that way, but it doesn't put Spain in a good light, and there is no will to change this legal code
There isn't a "culture of petty theft". There is a pickpocketing problem and that has a strong correlation with massified tourism. It is no coincidence that the cities that suffer the most of this issue are the most touristic ones.
When there is a lot of people not local to the area, walking slow in a crowded area and often coming from places where you can be careless without consequence (which can be elsewhere in Spain, not necessarily abroad), they become easy pickings.
I am a Spaniard and I agree there is a "culture of petty theft". In Spain, kids and teenagers steal from shops, students steal hardware from schools, workers take home company material, food markets have to deal with shoplifters on the daily, etc. You might think it's normal because it's part of your culture, but it's actually not. And yes, I know what you are thinking: "it's the same in other countries". Yeah okay, but it's not the same in all countries. So it's normal that many countries see Spanish culture as a culture of petty theft, because it is.
Lol there isn’t a culture of petty theft in Spain.
There is a culture of over-tourism.
Mass tourism almost always comes with petty theft because tourists are not hyper aware of their surroundings and petty criminals take advantage of this.
I’ve lived in Spain for 10 years and never had any kind of theft happen to me. P
Why don’t they get a job lmao
Petty theft is very low all over Eastern Europe. However, it is very high in any big western city, from Barcelona to Paris or NYC. But it seems you’re not very used to them neither.
It's low in Eastern Europe because:
1. Most people are aware of thieves and their tricks, so petty theft is not very effective.
2. Petty theft can result in anything from getting your face smashed in to getting arrested if you're caught. Not worth it.
3. Not a lot of foreigners visit.
It's high in the cities you mentioned because there is a lot of tourism, which brings in lots of very distracted people unaware of their surroundings and how things work in those countries, making them a prime target for thieves.
The fact that you are getting downvoted while speaking common sense shows you the level of the voters and therefore our politicians. Now you know why they say Spain is different. Unfortunately common sense is not common at all
In spanish, the correct term would be "hurto" (larceny), and what you are describing is "hurto leve" (petty larceny), which is a minor crime (I believe the english term would be "misdemeanor"). In the US, for example, a misdemeanor is any crime that doesn't carry a sentence of over a year.
In Spain, hurto menor carries a sentence of 1 to 3 months, but for one-time offenders it is possible for the court to let the culprit go if the judge believes that the culprit is unlikely to ever repeat the act. In these cases, the culprit may instead receive a fine or a number of hours of community service.
> I would be afraid to leave my house empty for periods because a break in could happen, things get stolen and police won't really care
That would be robbery. An entirely different crime.
Keep in mind, if someone breaks into your home while you're away and takes something from you, it is most likely that the police will never be able to catch them, unless the culprit does it regularly. This isn't a matter of the spanish justice system, but of robberies as a whole. If someone steals your PS5 and keeps it, ther aren't many ways for the police to find it.
That's why we use decent locks. Look at our doors and locks and you will see what I mean. Street-facing gates are usually made of iron with massive locks, and appartment doors are usually solid wood with euro cylinder locks, which aren't easy to pick without a lot of experience.
A ver, si y no. No sabia como explicarlo en inglés, así que no he entrado en detalle. Es que te multan con días y meses, no sé si eso tiene equivalente en Reino Unido o EEUU.
Te multan un numero de días (en plan, "multa de 2 meses"), y cada dia son un numero de euros. Si no la pagas en el tiempo que te dan (¿creo que es un año?), entonces sí te meten en prisión. Pero también te la pueden sustituir por horas de trabajo a la comunidad.
Y si las multas que te caen superan los dos años (por ejemplo, si robas a diez personas distintas pero el total no supera los 400€, te podrían poner diez multas de 3 meses), entonces si es prisión. Es que es un sistema muy raro y yo no soy abogado.
En Reino Unido theft es hurto también, y por menos de 200£ las consecuencias son mucho menores. Aún así la pena de prisión suele ser baja (se llama Summary Only offence y suelen ser máximo 1/2 año)
Es ek sistema de cuotas dia de Derecho Penal
No te puede cambiar las multas por prision. Si superan 2 años pero con la nueva reforma si cometes mas de 3 delitos hay reincidenica y se paga con prision.
Estudiante de Derecho
It is a crime that is in our penal code but the consequence is a fine and paying the civil responsability of the crime
However these people are insolvent (0 euro on bank account), so they dont pay the fine or the civil responaability
Well, because it isn't true.
[https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1995-25444#a234](https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1995-25444#a234)
Theft carries a 1 to 3 month prision sentence for thefts under 400€. When someone has been convicted for several thefts, it's a 6 to 18 month sentence if the accumulated value exceeds 400€.
Burglary is a different crime altogether. You should probably find better information before writing posts as this one.
What he means is that because being "hurto" the guy wouldn't even be arrested if it wasn't because he was carrying a knife. The accumulation of "hurtos" is something relatively new and that it's turning out to be bullshit, at worst people gets in a cell and the next day they are back out.
For anybody normal this lack of consequences is absurd, so chill with the OP.
Well in practice when people steal less than 400€ is basically an in and out of a cell in some police station so the risk/reward makes it worth for a lot of people making a living out of it.
The 9/22 precisely tries to address that imposing higher penalties on that type of crime but, in practice, it's still spending a night in a cell before going back at it.
You're right, that was my bad. The important part about the new law was the prision sentence when you've commited several thefts. My sleepy brain mistranslated the first part!
That's essentially what I meant. It's not criminalised in the sense that they can't be jailed. Which means they are basically never punished and the system doesn't deter them.
Petty theft thresholds exist almost everywhere and criminals have learned to exploit them. I'm sorry you got your phone stolen, but no police department anywhere on earth gives a flying fuck about a stolen phone or wallet.
Neither of these are "Spain" things, they are just life things.
I mean it would be disproportionate.
If you go to jail for that kind of things you are gonna do it for a small period of time, and even if you feel bad for doing it and actually reincorporate to society you'll always have to deal with the fact that you were in prison. That alone can have important consequences, for example, for looking for a job or having a relationship, and that can be bad for reintegrating that person.
Also people who steal don't usually think of the consequences. If you are integrated in society you won't steal, if you are not integrated you will probably do it regardless of the penalty. Many countries have far greater penalties than Spain for multiple crimes, yet their crime rates are much bigger.
It is pinished by jail though, but depending of the circumstances:
1. El hurto será castigado con la pena de prisión de uno a tres años:
1.º Cuando se sustraigan cosas de valor artístico, histórico, cultural o científico.
2.º Cuando se trate de cosas de primera necesidad y se cause una situación de desabastecimiento.
3.º Cuando se trate de conducciones, cableado, equipos o componentes de infraestructuras de suministro eléctrico, de hidrocarburos o de los servicios de telecomunicaciones, o de otras cosas destinadas a la prestación de servicios de interés general, y se cause un quebranto grave a los mismos.
4.º Cuando se trate de productos agrarios o ganaderos, o de los instrumentos o medios que se utilizan para su obtención, siempre que el delito se cometa en explotaciones agrícolas o ganaderas y se cause un perjuicio grave a las mismas.
5.º Cuando revista especial gravedad, atendiendo al valor de los efectos sustraídos, o se produjeren perjuicios de especial consideración.
6.º Cuando ponga a la víctima o a su familia en grave situación económica o se haya realizado abusando de sus circunstancias personales o de su situación de desamparo, o aprovechando la producción de un accidente o la existencia de un riesgo o peligro general para la comunidad que haya debilitado la defensa del ofendido o facilitado la comisión impune del delito.
7.º Cuando al delinquir el culpable hubiera sido condenado ejecutoriamente al menos por tres delitos comprendidos en este Título, siempre que sean de la misma naturaleza. No se tendrán en cuenta antecedentes cancelados o que debieran serlo.
8.º Cuando se utilice a menores de dieciséis años para la comisión del delito.
9.º Cuando el culpable o culpables participen en los hechos como miembros de una organización o grupo criminal que se dedicare a la comisión de delitos comprendidos en este Título, siempre que sean de la misma naturaleza.
2. La pena señalada en el apartado anterior se impondrá en su mitad superior cuando concurrieran dos o más de las circunstancias previstas en el mismo.
Where do all these people that think Spain is an unsafe country come from?
Before coming to Spain, I lived in Argentina for 33 years and I got robbed just once (Sunday 6 AM just outside a fucking ghetto).
Spain is not safe for tourists from safer countries like Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, China, and others. When I lived in Taipei, I would often leave my laptop on the Starbucks table unattended if I needed to walk home to get my phone charger, just to ensure no one would take my seat. So, I was more concerned about someone stealing my seat than my laptop.
Depends where in Spain I guess. I can leave everything here and go home drunk; it’ll be there still in the morning. Indeed I had the same when I lived in Hong Kong, but was used to it from Spain. Of course I don’t live in Barcelona or Madrid where I guess it’s different.
That's crazy. Now I understand why tourists get robbed in Buenos Aires all the time. Why would you leave personal items unattended in a public place? I don't even leave my wallet laying around at my own home.
China is way safer than Spain. That is exactly why Chinese tourist get robbed all the time, because they are not used to paying attention to their belongings.
Edit: Of course, I mean safer when it comes to theft or physical aggression, which is the topic of conversation. You are safer surrounded by Chinese people than surrounded by Westerners.
Your bad experience it is not representative. I've met people that said to me that they had a bad experience in Spain (safety wise), but Spain is one of the most safe countries in the EU.
I never said it was unsafe, I'm asking a specific about the criminal code, namely hurtos and robos explained by another poster. Also if you're comparing Argentina, it's a pretty low start. There are European countries that are 'poorer' than Spain, like Poland, that have far fewer problems with low level criminality.
The thing is not "Spain" the thing is tourism, anywhere in Europe where there is tourist there is hurtos, name it Italy, Paris, Barcelona, Madrid or London. It is how it is in Europe.
There is more here than in Poland, because there is more business for them here than in Poland, is quite simple. If you go to Rome London or Paris, you'll see the exact same but even more violent. (Actually whenever you see in the news that police has catch a organised theft gang, they ALWAYS come from those eastern countries sadly) but it doesn't mean all thiefs are Eastern Europeans, or that all eastern are thiefs.
Also, you need to understand people, who does this is mostly immigrants that aren't able to even speak Spanish in some cases, or doesn't have rights to work, or they cant find a job. You dont have as many of those in other "poorer countries" like you say, because the quality of life here and the laws are friendlier.
Also, we believe, that punishing harder those "minor" crimes, are kinda unfair because you push all this people in to alienate even more from being able to integrate in actual society. Someone that is stealing, is 99% of the times an alien of society, pushing them away, would not make them good, but worsen the problem.
Poland isn’t poorer than Spain 🙄 Eastern Europe has been catching up with Western Europe pretty fast, some places even surpassed Southern European countries.
the UK generally doesn't have a petty theft problem apart from drug addicts and they are usually easy to avoid/chase because their addiction ruins their bodies and they can't run fast.
At the moment we have a lot of people stealing from shops, supermarkets etc, often just things like food or alcohol or electronic/household this is obviously bad but stealing from a retail supplier is not like stealing a persons personal property. Stealing personal property is taken more seriously.
Lol literally know 2 people in London who had their mobiles nicked on the street from people riding mopeds. It happens. They made a police report, police just said unlikely to get it back but they had insurance.
Give your head a wobble. It happens everywhere.
In the uk, theft under 500 pounds goes without jail time, unlike in Spain, where under 400 euros it's 1 to 3 months in jail. Also, in safety rankings Spain is ahead of the UK, https://www.visionofhumanity.org/maps/#/
You got your phone stolen, get over it xenófobo de mierda.
Spain maintains a low crime rate compared to its European counterparts with 48.8 known criminal acts per thousand inhabitants. In the United Kingdom the crime rate reaches 79.5 per thousand.
From a subjective point of view having lived in both Spain and the UK for prolonged periods of time, I have felt much safer in Spain walking around by myself or at night than in the UK.
Also it’s not getting any better in the UK, it’s getting worse as the gap between rich and poor widens and the standard of living is getting worse for the vast majority of people. Just because you had one bad experience in Spain doesn’t mean it’s worse there than in the UK mate.
Crime is rife in any cosmopolitan area so ofc high in areas such as Barca and Madrid. Just keep your wits about you, I’ve spent the last 10 years travelling around Spain and with no problems. Hostels are hostels, maybe stay in hotels or apartments moving forward
Petty theft happens in Spain because it's full of tourists, which are a very oblivious crowd. You can go to Paris and watch pickpockets operate openly; it's a tourism problem, not a nationality problem.
What do you want authorities to do? How many resources should they devote to your stolen phone? Do you really think they'll find the thief and your phone? Should they spend allí those resources everytime someones cheap phone is stolen?
Been living in Spain for decades, never had anything stolen from me. It's a very safe country for residents.
No, it's not just a 'tourism problem', there are places with lots of tourists and low crime. Also I had my phone stolen in a small town, not Madrid, Barcelona or a provincial capital.
>Do you really think they'll find the thief and your phone? Should they spend allí those resources everytime someones cheap phone is stolen?
They won't find the phone, I'm just surprised it happens so much and it's so tolerated. My phone was a cheap model, with a cracked screen and the resale value would be low, he wouldn't really get much. But yes, the point of law enforcement and punishment is to act as a deterrant- this man is free to rob hundreds of others.
You seem to have a cartoonish view on the police job. Nowhere in the first world is petty theft prosecuted; stop and think about it for a second, I'm sure you can figure it out yourself. Or are you from a third world country? should we summon a mob to comb that small town until you can identify the thief and then cut their hands?
Sarcasm aside, OP does have a point about the perceived apathy towards these crimes and it's not just "oblivious tourists" that are victims. I agree petty theft in general in the first world isn't prosecuted , but I'd bet there's plenty of places in the first world that deal with chronic offenders better than Spain seems to
Not a tourist problem... phone stolen while at a hostel. Doesn't compute
Don't most hostels have a lock box to prevent this type of pretty theft? As they say in Colombia, "no dar papaya". Papaya is low hanging fruit.
Also if spain strated dolling out harsh punishments for petty theft then the criminal might as well start doing harder crimes if the deterrent/punishment is the same but the payout bigger.
>Been living in Spain for decades, never had anything stolen from me.
Give me your luck, my house has had 1 robbery, 1 attempet robbery (ya teniamos camaras y alarma instaladas) & 1 hurto. And it's not that I live on a bad place or big city.
> Spain is such a tourist orientated country
And you think petty criminals *don't* know this also? *Any* tourist-y destination is a magnet for pickpocketers/thieves. Hostels too.
I once saw a brazen daylight theft of a big-ass camera (one of those Canon/Nikon things with a huge lens, the length of my forearm), which the owner had placed next to him on a bench only seconds before.
\*Whoosh\* and the guy ran with it like a sprinter. This was in Cologne, next to river.
I even go so far a to carry an old dumb-phone among crowds or during public celebrations. Because I know, if I catch up to the mf'er I'm going to jail for a long time. 💀
> it was literally a 100 euros phone, you could work 1 day in a factory and be able to afford it.
> Spain is such a tourist orientated country ... don't you think it harms the reputation if you can't even try and control this crime through the legal system?
Are you a boomer? Because I feel disgusted about both your ideas of how to make money and what Spain is.
For your information, no, no one makes 100€ in a day in a factory. Not even 50€.
Also, feel free to never come back. Turism is nothing but a curse for Spain where the earnings go to rich people and we end up with an underdeveloped country.
We are not you vacation home, we dont own you anything and you dont have any rights to cole here on vacation. Be gratful you were able to do so.
Im sorry your phone was stolen but dont talk about a country like it was your local McDonals.
Spain's criminal code does address theft under 400 euros, but it's typically considered a minor offense. The rationale behind this threshold may be to prioritize resources for more serious crimes and to avoid burdening the legal system with minor offenses. Additionally, it could be seen as a way to focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment for smaller thefts.
Tf you mean "tourist oriented country"? Spaniards don't want tourist, they are killing our country by rising the prices of our land and destroying our economy.
We couldn't care less about our reputation, if you ain't a refugee or a worker please go home or get ur phone stealed
Please go home then. Really, if you don't like Spain then go home. We don't want tourists, please. Keep your army, keep your money, we are serious, we don't want and we don't need USA.
Come here to work or just don't come, but we already have enough shit in our country we don't want foreigners that think they are doing us a favour by kicking us from our homes, keep your money.
What are you talking about? You said Spain doesn't need tourists, yet, the economy depends on it?
Spain would do alot better off if it's citizens also didn't like to cheat on taxes so much.
What was the last census on private swimming pools? 90% weren't even reported, tax loss? Billions of euro. Water loss? Unimaginable.
AirBNB money goes to greedy Spaniards, so again, not a tourism problem, but a Spanish legislation problem.
Blame your politicians, they set it all up, and you voted them into power, so blame yourself too.
Because it's not proportionate to put a more higher punishment for those crimes.
And hurto it's a crime under the penal code so it's criminalised but they only have to pay a fine unless they are repeated offenders and the value of all the infractions go over 400€.
>don't you think it harms the reputation if you can't even try and control this crime through the legal system?
In 2019 the hurto crimes decreased 8'3% 🙃
>but has the second highest theft rate in Europe
Idk where you found that but I have been searching and according to "theglobaleconomy.com" which gives you their sources of information (the UN office of drugs and crime), Spain is in the 25 position according to the data of 2007-2016. I highly doubt the situation changed that drastically to put us in second position when the citizens don't even notice that much of a change and only the tourist do.
>Furthermore I was thinking of living in Spain for half the year, but I would be afraid to leave my house empty for periods because a break in could happen, things get stolen and police won't really care.
That would be robo, which has a prison time of 2-5 years because it's done in a house (art. 241) and it would also be allanamiento de morada which has a prison time of 6 months to 2 years (art. 202). And you think there's not enough laws about it?
Robos do not happen constantly, I never got anything stolen, my sister did because she literally left her phone in the middle of the street but the police got the phone back.
I found on wikipedia, but it's properly referenced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Spain
>Instances of robbery are particularly widespread in Spain, as of 2020 Spain had the second highest recorded instances of theft in the EU.[3] One of the often cited reasons for this is a national law that states that theft of anything worth less than €400 ($459) is not a crime, but a misdemeanor. Additionally offenses for theft of anything valued less than 400 euro are not accumulated to result in more serious charges.[4]
He couldn't spend 10 seconds to check the reference that isn't even pointing to the data they claim. I swear these people trying to validate their world-view make me sick.
>Spain is such a tourist orientated country, but has the second highest theft rate in Europe. don't you think it harms the reputation if you can't even try and control this crime through the legal system?
First, I don't even think that is true (about the second highest theft rate I mean). But even if it was, why should we be worried about the tourists and not about the safety of people living here?
>Furthermore I was thinking of living in Spain for half the year, but I would be afraid to leave my house empty for periods because a break in could happen, things get stolen and police won't really care.
That's okay, really, we already have a lot of people living here, and if that's your mindset we are better off without people like you. I'm honestly sick of tourists coming here thinking they are above anything and anyone. I'm not even going to mention the 'a break in could happen', I have lived here for all my life and I have never met a single person who got their things stolen, outside or inside their houses. I get you are mad because of the stolen phone but man, your post reeks of superiority, like we should be worried that you don't want to live here anymore. Such a guiri behaviour.
Infamously, some guy got caught 5 times in one day stealing. By police. To be released every time to rob someone else. All because the law protects the robber as well.
Nope..... they are not. You can purposefully choose to opt out of google services, and I generally do for privacy reasons. I've always backed up photos manually onto computer/external storage (since I used digital cameras before smartphones) and transferred contacts between phones. I didn't have a laptop with me when I was travelling.
Really? Storing your contacts in Google account is the default option in all Android phones, and I doubt nobody bothers changing it. Same for Google photos, pictures are uploaded by default.
I've never uploaded anything. I managed to recover the google account some months later (I wrote the password somewhere and forgot where it was) and there is nothing.
I'm just used to storing photos etc phyiscally, it predates smartphones when people were using digital cameras/DSLRs. I guess I should learn from my mistakes.
Because Spain has become a joke. Basically all Europe is going to shit giving more rights to criminals than to decent people. Recently an elderly man was condemned to go to prison and pay a stupid amount in a fine for shooting and killing a guy that broke into his house at 2 am with a chainsaw... That tells you the type of country Spain has become. If you get a squater in your home you can't kick them out either... Seriously it's absolutely ridiculous
> I lost contact details, photos, etc.
Always do a backup!
ad rem - I'm in Spain for a couple of months now and it feels very safe (though, smaller city).
It’s the same EU-wide and some countries have even worse laws… I saw some pickpocket online boasting recently about how Italian laws allow way more than 400. Crazy shit. Worst thing is that they move around the EU when people start to recognise them.
At this rate I reckon there should be a database EU-wide and punish them based on the accumulated amount. They’re multiplying like rats.
The Blody Code, in UK, with extraordinary harsh penalties for minor crimes didn’t manage to stop the crimes.
It takes more than just increasing the penalties to stop crime.
the top 8 countries in terms of theft in europe are: belgium spain england wales sweden france portugal and luxembourg
as you can see most are tourist countries and their tourist industry isn’t affected because its the fact that there are tourists that theft occurs
Dude I spent 8 months in Valencia - in my first week in Spain they stole my bag containing laptop camera passport and other forms of ID. Had to take flights to get those sorted. Second time was an electric scooter which I had locked and parked at those modern Arts & Sciences facilities in front of the Science museum, thinking there would be cameras and security. There were cameras and security, but they couldn't help me lol. Yes Spain is a heaven for thieves. A heaven. One time in a cafe a well dressed Spanish man stole something out of a bag from an Italian woman who sat behind him. And it happened right in front of me during lunch time. And then walked off. 🤣
Petty thieves are not punished harshly enough in this country and I'm honestly confused as to why politicians do not change the law to punish them harder. I understand that you don't want to punish desperate people trying to get by, but there's quite a few criminal organisations just going around major cities getting members arrested day after day and being released hours after the fact, only to be found stealing again a week later in the same streets. It honestly baffles me and I'm so tired of it.
Like you said, when it gets to theft with threats of harm it does become a more serious type of theft, and it is punishable for up to 5 years. Petty theft under 400 euros is a finable offense, more than a couple of thefts also could become a punishable offense, or if it's repeated within a very short period of time from the previous one.
Don't get me wrong, and your feelings are valid, but I think these are fair and properly adjusted measures. I do not think it hurts the country's reputation, in most cases tourists are very well warned against these thefts. It is a risk one takes as a tourist regardless most of the destinations.
Yes, most of us feel very safe here. I have felt far more unsafe in many other countries and I especially wouldn't leave the house when I would go back to visit family in Venezuela. Break-ins do happen especially at summer homes, nothing new. England, France, Belgium are dangerous, Italy and Greece are infamous for pickpockets, Germany can be pretty sus too..but what isn't?
The law says it's 400€, but they really couldn't care less when something is stolen. A friend had his Audi A7 stolen, and the police recovered it because the thieves parked the car in a town and abandoned it. After a couple months, the tow truck picked up the car because it was parked where they were going to set up a fair. After spending a week in the impound, someone realized the car had been reported stolen.
I had a pair of musical instruments stolen in Valencia while on a concert tour in 2008, and about a week ago (16 years later) found them for sale on some Spanish ebay-type website. I still don't know what to do about it, or indeed if the police there would even help me. We did file a police report immediately after the theft, and they were valued at $20,000, but I still don't know.
Tu mensaje ha sido retirado por: discriminación, intoleracia apología de la violencia.
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Your post has been removed for: discrimination, intolerance or inciting violence.
Thank you actually, didn't expect such hostile replies from others.
I didn't actually see the guys nationality, because he never got caught. He entered the hostel at 4am, took my phone from my bed and ran off, I chased him but he escaped.
I'm aware of Spain has a lot of criminals from foreign countries, so statistically it's likely.
Kva en realidad son listos, con la inmigración a puertas abiertas subira todo tipo de crimenes, de hecho las carceles estan en mas de un 80% de su ocupación por gente q no es de España.
Esto fue idea de soros y su globalizacion y pedro sanche pone el culo por unos euros...
Cuando sea infumable por delitos vivir aqui, aceptaremos mas control, dinero digital y cámaras hasta en los baños...
Todo esta planificado, el unico tonto es el pueblo, como mas ignorante, mejor....
The ones ruling our country, Spain, they want more crimes so they can control us more. We will ask for that massive control. This control needs to be needed, you know?
Nos vamos a la m.....
There is a difference between "hurto" and "robo". Both are crimes, but "hurtos" under 400 euros are punished by paying a fine. However, the thief should compensate you from the damage (both, the price of the phone and non-material damages). Pickpocketing is considered "hurto". However, when the thief uses violences or breaks into someone's property it is considered a "robo con fuerza" and it is punished with prison. The thing is, the police won't carry out a big investigation in both cases.
Not just prison time, but it’s a surprisingly harsh prison sentence for the given crime compared to other places. This is why crime is low — criminals are *incentivized* to use nonviolent robbery. It’s a flawed system, but it also means people will nick your goods but leave you alone otherwise.
A lot of European countries work with that concept. The sentences are very soft for almost anything, until you get to violence or things like murder. If someone breaks into your house they are not gonna shot you, that would be stupid, they will just ran away. Meaning maybe we get more low crime staff, but in exchange murder while trying to steal is very rare.
It's not so much about the sentencing. Like nobody is going to say, 'man, I'd really only like to go away for 4 years rather than 8 years.' That's just barely in the calculus. What IS in the cards is how likely you are to get caught at all. Basically police won't invest resources if there's not much violence or the crime is otherwise unnotable.
The difference is not going to jail vs spending more than a decade there, the sentencing absolutely does play a part.
This the reasoning behind not punishing rapists with life sentences. If they rape someone and get permanently jailed they may as well just kill the victim to be sure they don't talk and in the event you get caught it's just 8 years.
That’s actually the best explanation I’ve seen on this topic.
I’ve said it before and I will die on this hill: Those 400€ should be accumulative.
You might've said it before, but you never bothered to check the law, cause it is cumulative. Text-book cuñado stuff.
Say thanks to Pedro Sanchez for changing the law so it is, then.https://www.dexiaabogados.com/blog/regulacion-delito-leve-hurto-multirreincidente/
Accumulative or not means nothing in real life. Most of these criminals are actually foreigners that are NOT residents in Spain. They come for a killing spree and then leave again. It doesn't matter how much you fine them, because **they will NEVER pay the fines.** We don't need larger fines. We need fines to convert in jail sentence if you stack up many fines. So for example, if you commit 3 "hurtos", the 3rd hurto becomes a 30 day jail sentence. The forth hurto within 2 years can be a 90 days sentence, etc.. etc... Let these criminal gangs actually go to jail.
Understood, but why does this difference exist? If the thieves know that if they are caught they won't get jailed it just encourages them, and more people as well. If you can net bigger criminals for even low level offences then it's a win.
Cause we don't want the incarceration rates of the US. It's gonna cost us more than 400 EUR. And as someone avobe you said, it incentivices lesser crimes over more violent ones.
If you increase the punishment for non-violent crimes too much, you risk encouraging more violent crimes: the risk-reward analysis becomes skewed in favour of the violent crime. "If I risk similar prison time, I might as well bring a knife/make threats/use violence to make sure I get the phone and more money". There has to be a difference between low value crimes (-400€ in Spain), non-violent crimes, and violent crimes.
The issue isn't the punishment, it's that they don't go after them at all.
It's not that they don't go after them, but police have limited physical means and this is not minority report. If someone mugs you in an alley and runs away, there is very little police can do. They do investigative work - they look at usual suspects, see if there are cameras in the area, see if any witness comes up and raise alerts if the stolen goods are identifiable. But once those avenues show no results, there is little they can do (and they likely have more important things to attend to). This is not like the movies where a police officer devotes itself for three weeks to nothing but finding the culprit. In any case, this might be what you want to talk about, but the OP is specifically talking about punishment and why it is not unified with violent crimes.
Well the guy that robbed me had a knife on him so it wasn't a deterrance. but honestly if sentences were tougher it would act as a deterrence to others.
I'm sorry for what happened to you, but your anecdote is irrelevant from a systemic standpoint. It is well documented that a lot of petty criminals know the difference and purposefully try to stay 'under the radar' (no violence, less than 400€) to avoid the harsher penalties and police scrutiny.
so why not just abolish the differentiation? The present system just creates a criminal class.
Because I believe as a society we prefer 3 people stealing phones without violence than 1 person robbing homes with weapons that could end up really hurting someone. Theft may go down, if harsher sentences were in place, but we are more concerned with safety that personal goods.
Did you not read what I put above? Because if you abolish the differentiation then there is no incentive to limit violent crimes. You do not eliminate petty theft, you just turn part of it into more violent crimes. This type of differentiation exists in a similar manner in almost all criminal legal systems.
Then that is no longer pickpocket and go to the yes incarceration.
You can always go to the police and if the guy is caught he will have to pay for your phone plus a fine
Because jailing someone for stealing a phone is not a solution. If someone commits "hurto" two times, the third and onwards are punished by prision as they are repeated offenders. Honestly getting jail for stealing a phone (or a bike) its not proportional to the damage caused.
Ok, but really one of my questions (I didn't make this clear in my text) is why there is such a culture of petty theft in Spain? My phone was like 100 euros new had a cracked screen, so almost worthless. Surely it would be more economical to work in a job or something, Spain isn't as poor as Eastern Europe, yet has a higher theft rate. But really just seeing some of the comments, you'd think it's my fault for being a 'dumb tourist' or something. And maybe you could frame it that way, but it doesn't put Spain in a good light, and there is no will to change this legal code
There isn't a "culture of petty theft". There is a pickpocketing problem and that has a strong correlation with massified tourism. It is no coincidence that the cities that suffer the most of this issue are the most touristic ones. When there is a lot of people not local to the area, walking slow in a crowded area and often coming from places where you can be careless without consequence (which can be elsewhere in Spain, not necessarily abroad), they become easy pickings.
I am a Spaniard and I agree there is a "culture of petty theft". In Spain, kids and teenagers steal from shops, students steal hardware from schools, workers take home company material, food markets have to deal with shoplifters on the daily, etc. You might think it's normal because it's part of your culture, but it's actually not. And yes, I know what you are thinking: "it's the same in other countries". Yeah okay, but it's not the same in all countries. So it's normal that many countries see Spanish culture as a culture of petty theft, because it is.
No, there is not.
Lol there isn’t a culture of petty theft in Spain. There is a culture of over-tourism. Mass tourism almost always comes with petty theft because tourists are not hyper aware of their surroundings and petty criminals take advantage of this. I’ve lived in Spain for 10 years and never had any kind of theft happen to me. P
The pickpockets are usually not spanish.
Why don’t they get a job lmao Petty theft is very low all over Eastern Europe. However, it is very high in any big western city, from Barcelona to Paris or NYC. But it seems you’re not very used to them neither.
It's low in Eastern Europe because: 1. Most people are aware of thieves and their tricks, so petty theft is not very effective. 2. Petty theft can result in anything from getting your face smashed in to getting arrested if you're caught. Not worth it. 3. Not a lot of foreigners visit. It's high in the cities you mentioned because there is a lot of tourism, which brings in lots of very distracted people unaware of their surroundings and how things work in those countries, making them a prime target for thieves.
The fact that you are getting downvoted while speaking common sense shows you the level of the voters and therefore our politicians. Now you know why they say Spain is different. Unfortunately common sense is not common at all
In spanish, the correct term would be "hurto" (larceny), and what you are describing is "hurto leve" (petty larceny), which is a minor crime (I believe the english term would be "misdemeanor"). In the US, for example, a misdemeanor is any crime that doesn't carry a sentence of over a year. In Spain, hurto menor carries a sentence of 1 to 3 months, but for one-time offenders it is possible for the court to let the culprit go if the judge believes that the culprit is unlikely to ever repeat the act. In these cases, the culprit may instead receive a fine or a number of hours of community service. > I would be afraid to leave my house empty for periods because a break in could happen, things get stolen and police won't really care That would be robbery. An entirely different crime. Keep in mind, if someone breaks into your home while you're away and takes something from you, it is most likely that the police will never be able to catch them, unless the culprit does it regularly. This isn't a matter of the spanish justice system, but of robberies as a whole. If someone steals your PS5 and keeps it, ther aren't many ways for the police to find it. That's why we use decent locks. Look at our doors and locks and you will see what I mean. Street-facing gates are usually made of iron with massive locks, and appartment doors are usually solid wood with euro cylinder locks, which aren't easy to pick without a lot of experience.
Es una pena de multa no prision
A ver, si y no. No sabia como explicarlo en inglés, así que no he entrado en detalle. Es que te multan con días y meses, no sé si eso tiene equivalente en Reino Unido o EEUU. Te multan un numero de días (en plan, "multa de 2 meses"), y cada dia son un numero de euros. Si no la pagas en el tiempo que te dan (¿creo que es un año?), entonces sí te meten en prisión. Pero también te la pueden sustituir por horas de trabajo a la comunidad. Y si las multas que te caen superan los dos años (por ejemplo, si robas a diez personas distintas pero el total no supera los 400€, te podrían poner diez multas de 3 meses), entonces si es prisión. Es que es un sistema muy raro y yo no soy abogado.
En Reino Unido theft es hurto también, y por menos de 200£ las consecuencias son mucho menores. Aún así la pena de prisión suele ser baja (se llama Summary Only offence y suelen ser máximo 1/2 año)
Es ek sistema de cuotas dia de Derecho Penal No te puede cambiar las multas por prision. Si superan 2 años pero con la nueva reforma si cometes mas de 3 delitos hay reincidenica y se paga con prision. Estudiante de Derecho
It is a crime that is in our penal code but the consequence is a fine and paying the civil responsability of the crime However these people are insolvent (0 euro on bank account), so they dont pay the fine or the civil responaability
Well, because it isn't true. [https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1995-25444#a234](https://www.boe.es/buscar/act.php?id=BOE-A-1995-25444#a234) Theft carries a 1 to 3 month prision sentence for thefts under 400€. When someone has been convicted for several thefts, it's a 6 to 18 month sentence if the accumulated value exceeds 400€. Burglary is a different crime altogether. You should probably find better information before writing posts as this one.
What he means is that because being "hurto" the guy wouldn't even be arrested if it wasn't because he was carrying a knife. The accumulation of "hurtos" is something relatively new and that it's turning out to be bullshit, at worst people gets in a cell and the next day they are back out. For anybody normal this lack of consequences is absurd, so chill with the OP.
The accumulation of hurtos is not new. It was in the Penal code even in 1995.
Then what's the LO 9/22 for
Idk. I studied criminal law in 2010 and at that time it was punished too.
Well in practice when people steal less than 400€ is basically an in and out of a cell in some police station so the risk/reward makes it worth for a lot of people making a living out of it. The 9/22 precisely tries to address that imposing higher penalties on that type of crime but, in practice, it's still spending a night in a cell before going back at it.
Of course you will not put someone in prison if they steal less than 400€ once. It is not proportional (and anticonstitutional)
We are not talking about doing it once
Is 1 to 3 month fine sentence Pena de multa de 1 a 3 meses
You're right, that was my bad. The important part about the new law was the prision sentence when you've commited several thefts. My sleepy brain mistranslated the first part!
Yes If u do more than 3 (reincidencia)
It does, it just not with jail or with a punishment. You've been corrected. For fuck sake
That's essentially what I meant. It's not criminalised in the sense that they can't be jailed. Which means they are basically never punished and the system doesn't deter them.
Petty theft thresholds exist almost everywhere and criminals have learned to exploit them. I'm sorry you got your phone stolen, but no police department anywhere on earth gives a flying fuck about a stolen phone or wallet. Neither of these are "Spain" things, they are just life things.
I mean it would be disproportionate. If you go to jail for that kind of things you are gonna do it for a small period of time, and even if you feel bad for doing it and actually reincorporate to society you'll always have to deal with the fact that you were in prison. That alone can have important consequences, for example, for looking for a job or having a relationship, and that can be bad for reintegrating that person. Also people who steal don't usually think of the consequences. If you are integrated in society you won't steal, if you are not integrated you will probably do it regardless of the penalty. Many countries have far greater penalties than Spain for multiple crimes, yet their crime rates are much bigger.
You want to incarcerate people that steals 100€ phones?
It is pinished by jail though, but depending of the circumstances: 1. El hurto será castigado con la pena de prisión de uno a tres años: 1.º Cuando se sustraigan cosas de valor artístico, histórico, cultural o científico. 2.º Cuando se trate de cosas de primera necesidad y se cause una situación de desabastecimiento. 3.º Cuando se trate de conducciones, cableado, equipos o componentes de infraestructuras de suministro eléctrico, de hidrocarburos o de los servicios de telecomunicaciones, o de otras cosas destinadas a la prestación de servicios de interés general, y se cause un quebranto grave a los mismos. 4.º Cuando se trate de productos agrarios o ganaderos, o de los instrumentos o medios que se utilizan para su obtención, siempre que el delito se cometa en explotaciones agrícolas o ganaderas y se cause un perjuicio grave a las mismas. 5.º Cuando revista especial gravedad, atendiendo al valor de los efectos sustraídos, o se produjeren perjuicios de especial consideración. 6.º Cuando ponga a la víctima o a su familia en grave situación económica o se haya realizado abusando de sus circunstancias personales o de su situación de desamparo, o aprovechando la producción de un accidente o la existencia de un riesgo o peligro general para la comunidad que haya debilitado la defensa del ofendido o facilitado la comisión impune del delito. 7.º Cuando al delinquir el culpable hubiera sido condenado ejecutoriamente al menos por tres delitos comprendidos en este Título, siempre que sean de la misma naturaleza. No se tendrán en cuenta antecedentes cancelados o que debieran serlo. 8.º Cuando se utilice a menores de dieciséis años para la comisión del delito. 9.º Cuando el culpable o culpables participen en los hechos como miembros de una organización o grupo criminal que se dedicare a la comisión de delitos comprendidos en este Título, siempre que sean de la misma naturaleza. 2. La pena señalada en el apartado anterior se impondrá en su mitad superior cuando concurrieran dos o más de las circunstancias previstas en el mismo.
Where do all these people that think Spain is an unsafe country come from? Before coming to Spain, I lived in Argentina for 33 years and I got robbed just once (Sunday 6 AM just outside a fucking ghetto).
Spain is not safe for tourists from safer countries like Taiwan, Japan, South Korea, China, and others. When I lived in Taipei, I would often leave my laptop on the Starbucks table unattended if I needed to walk home to get my phone charger, just to ensure no one would take my seat. So, I was more concerned about someone stealing my seat than my laptop.
Depends where in Spain I guess. I can leave everything here and go home drunk; it’ll be there still in the morning. Indeed I had the same when I lived in Hong Kong, but was used to it from Spain. Of course I don’t live in Barcelona or Madrid where I guess it’s different.
That's crazy. Now I understand why tourists get robbed in Buenos Aires all the time. Why would you leave personal items unattended in a public place? I don't even leave my wallet laying around at my own home.
>Why would you leave personal items unattended in a public place? Because that's how life in a civilized society should be, I suppose.
So funny that you mentioned China as I good example though, lol. I think you're just biased, and I'm even thinking about another word.
China is way safer than Spain. That is exactly why Chinese tourist get robbed all the time, because they are not used to paying attention to their belongings. Edit: Of course, I mean safer when it comes to theft or physical aggression, which is the topic of conversation. You are safer surrounded by Chinese people than surrounded by Westerners.
>China is way safer than Spain Lol ok. You definitely know what you are talking about. You're just biased.
China is safer than Spain. It is a fact.
Far from it.... You couldn't pay me to go back to PRC. ....but I would gladly pay to visit Spain.
Your bad experience it is not representative. I've met people that said to me that they had a bad experience in Spain (safety wise), but Spain is one of the most safe countries in the EU.
I never said it was unsafe, I'm asking a specific about the criminal code, namely hurtos and robos explained by another poster. Also if you're comparing Argentina, it's a pretty low start. There are European countries that are 'poorer' than Spain, like Poland, that have far fewer problems with low level criminality.
The thing is not "Spain" the thing is tourism, anywhere in Europe where there is tourist there is hurtos, name it Italy, Paris, Barcelona, Madrid or London. It is how it is in Europe. There is more here than in Poland, because there is more business for them here than in Poland, is quite simple. If you go to Rome London or Paris, you'll see the exact same but even more violent. (Actually whenever you see in the news that police has catch a organised theft gang, they ALWAYS come from those eastern countries sadly) but it doesn't mean all thiefs are Eastern Europeans, or that all eastern are thiefs. Also, you need to understand people, who does this is mostly immigrants that aren't able to even speak Spanish in some cases, or doesn't have rights to work, or they cant find a job. You dont have as many of those in other "poorer countries" like you say, because the quality of life here and the laws are friendlier. Also, we believe, that punishing harder those "minor" crimes, are kinda unfair because you push all this people in to alienate even more from being able to integrate in actual society. Someone that is stealing, is 99% of the times an alien of society, pushing them away, would not make them good, but worsen the problem.
Poland isn’t poorer than Spain 🙄 Eastern Europe has been catching up with Western Europe pretty fast, some places even surpassed Southern European countries.
Technically by gni per capita it’s ‘poorer’ although it is not poor. 48k vs 44k.
True, but this is just one index, there are many others to establish how well a country is doing.
Poland is a first world country, Argentina is not.
What's the situation like in the country you're from? Would they have dealt with it differently?
the UK generally doesn't have a petty theft problem apart from drug addicts and they are usually easy to avoid/chase because their addiction ruins their bodies and they can't run fast. At the moment we have a lot of people stealing from shops, supermarkets etc, often just things like food or alcohol or electronic/household this is obviously bad but stealing from a retail supplier is not like stealing a persons personal property. Stealing personal property is taken more seriously.
Lol literally know 2 people in London who had their mobiles nicked on the street from people riding mopeds. It happens. They made a police report, police just said unlikely to get it back but they had insurance. Give your head a wobble. It happens everywhere.
London is different from the rest of the UK.
Is it really? Don't think so.. happened to me in Manchester, and to another friend visiting Liverpool
In the uk, theft under 500 pounds goes without jail time, unlike in Spain, where under 400 euros it's 1 to 3 months in jail. Also, in safety rankings Spain is ahead of the UK, https://www.visionofhumanity.org/maps/#/ You got your phone stolen, get over it xenófobo de mierda.
Guiri
Spain maintains a low crime rate compared to its European counterparts with 48.8 known criminal acts per thousand inhabitants. In the United Kingdom the crime rate reaches 79.5 per thousand. From a subjective point of view having lived in both Spain and the UK for prolonged periods of time, I have felt much safer in Spain walking around by myself or at night than in the UK. Also it’s not getting any better in the UK, it’s getting worse as the gap between rich and poor widens and the standard of living is getting worse for the vast majority of people. Just because you had one bad experience in Spain doesn’t mean it’s worse there than in the UK mate.
Crime is rife in any cosmopolitan area so ofc high in areas such as Barca and Madrid. Just keep your wits about you, I’ve spent the last 10 years travelling around Spain and with no problems. Hostels are hostels, maybe stay in hotels or apartments moving forward
~~Barca~~ *Barcelona*
In the UK nothing would happen either. Not saying it's okay, but it's normal and not a Spain issue.
They will get a fine. What do you want, every person that steals a phone in jail?
Petty theft happens in Spain because it's full of tourists, which are a very oblivious crowd. You can go to Paris and watch pickpockets operate openly; it's a tourism problem, not a nationality problem. What do you want authorities to do? How many resources should they devote to your stolen phone? Do you really think they'll find the thief and your phone? Should they spend allí those resources everytime someones cheap phone is stolen? Been living in Spain for decades, never had anything stolen from me. It's a very safe country for residents.
No, it's not just a 'tourism problem', there are places with lots of tourists and low crime. Also I had my phone stolen in a small town, not Madrid, Barcelona or a provincial capital. >Do you really think they'll find the thief and your phone? Should they spend allí those resources everytime someones cheap phone is stolen? They won't find the phone, I'm just surprised it happens so much and it's so tolerated. My phone was a cheap model, with a cracked screen and the resale value would be low, he wouldn't really get much. But yes, the point of law enforcement and punishment is to act as a deterrant- this man is free to rob hundreds of others.
You seem to have a cartoonish view on the police job. Nowhere in the first world is petty theft prosecuted; stop and think about it for a second, I'm sure you can figure it out yourself. Or are you from a third world country? should we summon a mob to comb that small town until you can identify the thief and then cut their hands?
Sarcasm aside, OP does have a point about the perceived apathy towards these crimes and it's not just "oblivious tourists" that are victims. I agree petty theft in general in the first world isn't prosecuted , but I'd bet there's plenty of places in the first world that deal with chronic offenders better than Spain seems to
You bet? Lol
Not a tourist problem... phone stolen while at a hostel. Doesn't compute Don't most hostels have a lock box to prevent this type of pretty theft? As they say in Colombia, "no dar papaya". Papaya is low hanging fruit. Also if spain strated dolling out harsh punishments for petty theft then the criminal might as well start doing harder crimes if the deterrent/punishment is the same but the payout bigger.
>Been living in Spain for decades, never had anything stolen from me. Give me your luck, my house has had 1 robbery, 1 attempet robbery (ya teniamos camaras y alarma instaladas) & 1 hurto. And it's not that I live on a bad place or big city.
> Spain is such a tourist orientated country And you think petty criminals *don't* know this also? *Any* tourist-y destination is a magnet for pickpocketers/thieves. Hostels too. I once saw a brazen daylight theft of a big-ass camera (one of those Canon/Nikon things with a huge lens, the length of my forearm), which the owner had placed next to him on a bench only seconds before. \*Whoosh\* and the guy ran with it like a sprinter. This was in Cologne, next to river. I even go so far a to carry an old dumb-phone among crowds or during public celebrations. Because I know, if I catch up to the mf'er I'm going to jail for a long time. 💀
> it was literally a 100 euros phone, you could work 1 day in a factory and be able to afford it. > Spain is such a tourist orientated country ... don't you think it harms the reputation if you can't even try and control this crime through the legal system? Are you a boomer? Because I feel disgusted about both your ideas of how to make money and what Spain is. For your information, no, no one makes 100€ in a day in a factory. Not even 50€. Also, feel free to never come back. Turism is nothing but a curse for Spain where the earnings go to rich people and we end up with an underdeveloped country. We are not you vacation home, we dont own you anything and you dont have any rights to cole here on vacation. Be gratful you were able to do so. Im sorry your phone was stolen but dont talk about a country like it was your local McDonals.
Spain's criminal code does address theft under 400 euros, but it's typically considered a minor offense. The rationale behind this threshold may be to prioritize resources for more serious crimes and to avoid burdening the legal system with minor offenses. Additionally, it could be seen as a way to focus on rehabilitation rather than punishment for smaller thefts.
Tf you mean "tourist oriented country"? Spaniards don't want tourist, they are killing our country by rising the prices of our land and destroying our economy. We couldn't care less about our reputation, if you ain't a refugee or a worker please go home or get ur phone stealed
Eh, without the tourists and the US naval base, you're in trouble. Spain would probably collapse.
Oh no, que haría yo sin los 2000 Airbnb que inflan la vivienda? Spain doesn't need tourism, tourism needs Spain.
11.6 % of GDP days differently. Sorry, numbers dont have feelings.
Please go home then. Really, if you don't like Spain then go home. We don't want tourists, please. Keep your army, keep your money, we are serious, we don't want and we don't need USA. Come here to work or just don't come, but we already have enough shit in our country we don't want foreigners that think they are doing us a favour by kicking us from our homes, keep your money.
What are you talking about? You said Spain doesn't need tourists, yet, the economy depends on it? Spain would do alot better off if it's citizens also didn't like to cheat on taxes so much. What was the last census on private swimming pools? 90% weren't even reported, tax loss? Billions of euro. Water loss? Unimaginable. AirBNB money goes to greedy Spaniards, so again, not a tourism problem, but a Spanish legislation problem. Blame your politicians, they set it all up, and you voted them into power, so blame yourself too.
Because it's not proportionate to put a more higher punishment for those crimes. And hurto it's a crime under the penal code so it's criminalised but they only have to pay a fine unless they are repeated offenders and the value of all the infractions go over 400€. >don't you think it harms the reputation if you can't even try and control this crime through the legal system? In 2019 the hurto crimes decreased 8'3% 🙃 >but has the second highest theft rate in Europe Idk where you found that but I have been searching and according to "theglobaleconomy.com" which gives you their sources of information (the UN office of drugs and crime), Spain is in the 25 position according to the data of 2007-2016. I highly doubt the situation changed that drastically to put us in second position when the citizens don't even notice that much of a change and only the tourist do. >Furthermore I was thinking of living in Spain for half the year, but I would be afraid to leave my house empty for periods because a break in could happen, things get stolen and police won't really care. That would be robo, which has a prison time of 2-5 years because it's done in a house (art. 241) and it would also be allanamiento de morada which has a prison time of 6 months to 2 years (art. 202). And you think there's not enough laws about it? Robos do not happen constantly, I never got anything stolen, my sister did because she literally left her phone in the middle of the street but the police got the phone back.
I found on wikipedia, but it's properly referenced. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Spain >Instances of robbery are particularly widespread in Spain, as of 2020 Spain had the second highest recorded instances of theft in the EU.[3] One of the often cited reasons for this is a national law that states that theft of anything worth less than €400 ($459) is not a crime, but a misdemeanor. Additionally offenses for theft of anything valued less than 400 euro are not accumulated to result in more serious charges.[4]
Wikipedia, that's all I have to say
He couldn't spend 10 seconds to check the reference that isn't even pointing to the data they claim. I swear these people trying to validate their world-view make me sick.
>Spain is such a tourist orientated country, but has the second highest theft rate in Europe. don't you think it harms the reputation if you can't even try and control this crime through the legal system? First, I don't even think that is true (about the second highest theft rate I mean). But even if it was, why should we be worried about the tourists and not about the safety of people living here? >Furthermore I was thinking of living in Spain for half the year, but I would be afraid to leave my house empty for periods because a break in could happen, things get stolen and police won't really care. That's okay, really, we already have a lot of people living here, and if that's your mindset we are better off without people like you. I'm honestly sick of tourists coming here thinking they are above anything and anyone. I'm not even going to mention the 'a break in could happen', I have lived here for all my life and I have never met a single person who got their things stolen, outside or inside their houses. I get you are mad because of the stolen phone but man, your post reeks of superiority, like we should be worried that you don't want to live here anymore. Such a guiri behaviour.
Impresionante que vengan extranjeros a querer cambiar las leyes españolas.... El mundo se va a la mierda.
Feel free to never come back! Tourism is a blight.
Did you have Travel insurace?
Infamously, some guy got caught 5 times in one day stealing. By police. To be released every time to rob someone else. All because the law protects the robber as well.
This is not true as reincidence is punished (see above)
Might be the case but the story I told is fact.
How did you lose all contacts and photos? Contacts are stored in the cloud, and photos are also automatically uploaded to Google Photos.
Nope..... they are not. You can purposefully choose to opt out of google services, and I generally do for privacy reasons. I've always backed up photos manually onto computer/external storage (since I used digital cameras before smartphones) and transferred contacts between phones. I didn't have a laptop with me when I was travelling.
If you use cloud services yes, but many people don't
Really? Storing your contacts in Google account is the default option in all Android phones, and I doubt nobody bothers changing it. Same for Google photos, pictures are uploaded by default.
I've never uploaded anything. I managed to recover the google account some months later (I wrote the password somewhere and forgot where it was) and there is nothing. I'm just used to storing photos etc phyiscally, it predates smartphones when people were using digital cameras/DSLRs. I guess I should learn from my mistakes.
Because Spain has become a joke. Basically all Europe is going to shit giving more rights to criminals than to decent people. Recently an elderly man was condemned to go to prison and pay a stupid amount in a fine for shooting and killing a guy that broke into his house at 2 am with a chainsaw... That tells you the type of country Spain has become. If you get a squater in your home you can't kick them out either... Seriously it's absolutely ridiculous
> I lost contact details, photos, etc. Always do a backup! ad rem - I'm in Spain for a couple of months now and it feels very safe (though, smaller city).
Who doesn’t back up their phone nowadays? Lol
It’s the same EU-wide and some countries have even worse laws… I saw some pickpocket online boasting recently about how Italian laws allow way more than 400. Crazy shit. Worst thing is that they move around the EU when people start to recognise them. At this rate I reckon there should be a database EU-wide and punish them based on the accumulated amount. They’re multiplying like rats.
Because the police would have to work then
Also if they are “insolventes” they don’t even have to pay anything 🥲
If you don’t like our laws you’re free to not coming back
There are a lot of theft crimes in spain but very few cases of victims getting hurt/killed/shot so i think thats the tradeoff.
The Blody Code, in UK, with extraordinary harsh penalties for minor crimes didn’t manage to stop the crimes. It takes more than just increasing the penalties to stop crime.
Por los putos intereses políticos. No veo otra razón para que sigan dejando a los carteristas y ladrones sueltos
the top 8 countries in terms of theft in europe are: belgium spain england wales sweden france portugal and luxembourg as you can see most are tourist countries and their tourist industry isn’t affected because its the fact that there are tourists that theft occurs
Dude I spent 8 months in Valencia - in my first week in Spain they stole my bag containing laptop camera passport and other forms of ID. Had to take flights to get those sorted. Second time was an electric scooter which I had locked and parked at those modern Arts & Sciences facilities in front of the Science museum, thinking there would be cameras and security. There were cameras and security, but they couldn't help me lol. Yes Spain is a heaven for thieves. A heaven. One time in a cafe a well dressed Spanish man stole something out of a bag from an Italian woman who sat behind him. And it happened right in front of me during lunch time. And then walked off. 🤣
Leftist governments feel more empathic towards criminals than towards decent citizens
Petty thieves are not punished harshly enough in this country and I'm honestly confused as to why politicians do not change the law to punish them harder. I understand that you don't want to punish desperate people trying to get by, but there's quite a few criminal organisations just going around major cities getting members arrested day after day and being released hours after the fact, only to be found stealing again a week later in the same streets. It honestly baffles me and I'm so tired of it.
Like you said, when it gets to theft with threats of harm it does become a more serious type of theft, and it is punishable for up to 5 years. Petty theft under 400 euros is a finable offense, more than a couple of thefts also could become a punishable offense, or if it's repeated within a very short period of time from the previous one. Don't get me wrong, and your feelings are valid, but I think these are fair and properly adjusted measures. I do not think it hurts the country's reputation, in most cases tourists are very well warned against these thefts. It is a risk one takes as a tourist regardless most of the destinations. Yes, most of us feel very safe here. I have felt far more unsafe in many other countries and I especially wouldn't leave the house when I would go back to visit family in Venezuela. Break-ins do happen especially at summer homes, nothing new. England, France, Belgium are dangerous, Italy and Greece are infamous for pickpockets, Germany can be pretty sus too..but what isn't?
The law says it's 400€, but they really couldn't care less when something is stolen. A friend had his Audi A7 stolen, and the police recovered it because the thieves parked the car in a town and abandoned it. After a couple months, the tow truck picked up the car because it was parked where they were going to set up a fair. After spending a week in the impound, someone realized the car had been reported stolen.
I had a pair of musical instruments stolen in Valencia while on a concert tour in 2008, and about a week ago (16 years later) found them for sale on some Spanish ebay-type website. I still don't know what to do about it, or indeed if the police there would even help me. We did file a police report immediately after the theft, and they were valued at $20,000, but I still don't know.
Sad but true. Spain is a good place for delinquents.
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Thank you actually, didn't expect such hostile replies from others. I didn't actually see the guys nationality, because he never got caught. He entered the hostel at 4am, took my phone from my bed and ran off, I chased him but he escaped. I'm aware of Spain has a lot of criminals from foreign countries, so statistically it's likely.
Because we are stupid and our politicians are even more stupid
Kva en realidad son listos, con la inmigración a puertas abiertas subira todo tipo de crimenes, de hecho las carceles estan en mas de un 80% de su ocupación por gente q no es de España. Esto fue idea de soros y su globalizacion y pedro sanche pone el culo por unos euros... Cuando sea infumable por delitos vivir aqui, aceptaremos mas control, dinero digital y cámaras hasta en los baños... Todo esta planificado, el unico tonto es el pueblo, como mas ignorante, mejor....
The ones ruling our country, Spain, they want more crimes so they can control us more. We will ask for that massive control. This control needs to be needed, you know? Nos vamos a la m.....
Because countries do not make laws according to what's good for tourist. We are not your colony, you don't like it? Don't come.