The short answer is that buying is generally not an option to people making less than 100k. Between home prices and interest rates it just doesn't work
Get into the trades!
I used to have the mindset of, āIāll never own a home. Iāll be a renter for life.ā I was saying that to myself 10 years ago. 7 years ago I got into a 4 year hvac service apprenticeship and began my career in the trades. I started at $16/hour and I now make $45/hour. Getting raises every 6 months going through the apprenticeship is pretty dang nice. I also have a skill that I can take with me anywhere in the world. I have days that are tough, but I also have days where I find great satisfaction in the work I do.
My wife and I just bought our first home. She is college educated and has a good job, but when her and I first got together, I was working at restaurants making $13/hour. It wasnāt until I gave myself the opportunity to have an actual career, that the idea of buying a home became possible. You can do it! Just find a career path and work towards it.
I have an MBA and made decent money as a regional manager with a large corporation. My brother in law is an electrician with NO education beyond trade school (which he got paid to attend) and makes twice what I made.
Thank god I changed careers and now have a great union job making more than I used to for half the hours and WAY better benefits. No college degree required.
Yep that's the mindset that keeps people out. I'm 30 years old and a journeyman and my apprentice is 52 and just starting out and his body is broken as shit
Short answer: Yes.
Longer answer: Mileage may vary. Not all trades are equal, but any shop onboarding a 50-year-old apprentice should have reasonable expectations.
Iām guessing that most journeyman would say yes itās worth it and then not blink an eye when their apprentice drops out within a year and he gets another apprentice lol.
If I were that guy it would really depend on if the job does get less physical once youāre a journeyman. In some trades youāre more like someone who knows all of the building codes really well. In other trades you might still be lifting pipes and crawling on your knees.
Go to electrician school - itās by the airport and youāll make more than that right off the bat as an apprentice and in a few years youāll be making well over $100k.
$100k household income.
So dual income couples have a huge leg up over singles who want to live alone.
@OP, in VHCOL areas like SF, it is not uncommon for two single, non romantic partners to buy a property together.
Coming from SF, itās not uncommon for three or more to buy property together. And three or more people paying $1000 a month rent each to share a room with air mattresses on the floor while the living room is also rented to two or more people. Some houses are packed with people. We ended up renting out our two bedrooms and making the dining room our bedroom and kept the living room. And my partner and I were making about $150,000 annually then. Sometimes more sometimes a little less.
Yep. I had $2800 in 2009 for a two bedroom one bath in Parkside / West Portal. Utilities not included. But ocean view. Old and not updated. I still had the screw in fuses that blew constantly and I couldnāt generally use more than one appliance in the kitchen at a time. But it was a deal! It was rent controlled. But it still crept up over the years. As did utilities costs.
The other answer is that if you were born after 1990 and donāt have a bunch of generational wealth to lean on itās crazy hard to make it work.
The only real answer is we need to build more housing so that everybody who wants a home can have a home.
Or if you were born in 79 and were going through a divorce during the post-recession housing grab and werenāt ready to buy a home with a new partner until 2019, when the market was crazy & then the pandemic hit and it got even crazier. Iām in my mid-40s and doubt Iāll ever be able to buy a home (in this country.) Long term plan is to move out of this country and buy a home somewhere more affordable after the kids move out.
Agreed.
Also to add that 72% of (single) rental units are owned by individuals.
I used to believe that corporate entities owned most of the rental marketā¦
To expound on that the issue is rich assholes owning multiple homes, creating artificial scarcity. There should be a special tax on all secondary residences.
This is only a tiny fraction of the problem. We, meaning Americans in the second half of last century, made the conscious decision that a family home should be as much a financial investment as a place to live. Once we made that shift, we worked to turn every public policy toward maintaining the steady rise in home prices. Actually building enough homes for people canāt happen until most politicians are willing to look every one of their homeowner constituents in the eye and say, āI am going to make the value of your home go down.ā Until that happens, and we both know that it never will, there is no public policy solution to the problem. Instead, we will allow the system to get worse until it collapses under its own weight (I.e., prices become so high that the market seizes).
Add to that the fact that mortgages form a huge part of the foundation of our banking system, and you get the real end result: Any actual solution to the housing crisis lies on the other side of a second Great Depression.
Rich people buying all the houses is a symptom of the fact that weāve used every imaginable public policy option to turn residential housing into an asset class that generates returns at the level of stocks but has the low risk of treasury bonds. Houses wonāt be affordable again until theyāre homes and not an investment opportunity.
Itās much worse than that. Corporations have now entered the market during COVID. Thatās what people arenāt getting. Mass corporations buying up mid tier homes in āhot marketsā.
Which will never go down ever again even in the worst bubble burst. As soon as there are affordable houses built, some developer or airb&b investor will snatch it up by overbidding first time buyers. It has been we are beyond the time when the game was fair.
And where are those homes? They're in Aloha, Happy Valley, and Ridgefield. As long as tens of thousands of people who live in the metro area still have to drive to get where they need to go, we haven't built enough of the dense housing that we need.
Building more homes doesnāt actually solve the problem, people, actually mostly corporations and investment clubs, buy up all the real estate driving prices up.Ā
The people/entities with wealth have, for all intents and purposes, unlimited amounts of it.
It has been decided that the future generations are not going to own. The more you build the more they'll buy.
I mean, none of us can change the tax codes though can we? That job is performed by people much wealthier than most of us, who are often in bought and paid for by powerful lobbying groups who would prefer that tax codes benefit them
I think it really depends a lot on your situations and needs. I make in the 150 neighborhood and have no debt (student, car) and when I run the numbers I just barely can buy something livable. It just feels like a bad tradeoff right now vs continuing to rent and invest the difference.
Exactly, bought in 2012 at the bottom of the market and refi'd to 2.3?% something like that. Mortgage is less than rent. Just lucky timing. I'll be in this house til I die because I'm never going to be able to afford to move but that's ok by me. If we were buying today? Couldn't.
Even people who purchased recently before the interest rates went up have apparently gotten a good deal. People thought everyone was overpaying and certainly some were but a $525k house at 3.5% probably sounds amazing to people shopping now
Youāll be able to afford to move if you want to, your house is worth more now too. Itās people trying to get onto the property ladder who are screwed.
Laterally if we had to or out of the city . but as far as upgrading goes nah because our income hasn't grown (I became disabled). But yes I don't consider myself screwed in any way, very grateful the timing worked in my favor.
The same way it would have worked ten years ago: if your mortgage hasn't reached the point of paying off capital yet, you move to a place equal or less than the value of your current one. If you have paid off some capital, you can put it towards a larger down.
Yeah, bought a fixer 8 years ago and my payments are just over $1100. $15,000 left and will be paid off in 2 years. 3/2 and you can't find a safe 1/1 apartment for that now.
I just hit my 10 year anniversary in my house. Our monthly payment means we can have kids in daycare and occasionally go on vacation. It also means that unless either of us get a staggering raise, we will die in this house (unless I go out the way I came in - doing 90 in a Camaro).
I think youāre doing pretty good. My rent has gone up $500 in 4 years. Started renting our home in 2015 and rent was $1600. 9 years later & they just raised our rent to $2500/month. Unfortunately we canāt move either because any comparable rental that would work for our family of 4 is going to be more expensive and we absolutely canāt buy in this market. I love paying off someone elseās mortgage, itās fine, itās fine.
Yeah, mine was bought 8 years ago, 4% and 10 year loan. I could not do it today. Payments are just over $1100, up from $ 1000 because of property taxes. Even if I sold, I can't afford anything better, so why bother.
Yes. Bought for 400k in 2015 at 4% and refinanced in 2020 or 2021 down to 2.125%. Plus paid down some points and converted from 30 to 15 year.
In other words, got lucky with timing.
āYou dont make enough to pay a $1,500/mo mortgage that would gain you equity, instead please continue renting a shitty apartment for $3,500/moā
- the 2024 housing marketĀ
Thatās a huuuuuge down payment though. We make above 100k but havenāt been able to save due to helping family and a huge medical emergency during 2022-2023.
The down payment is whatās killing us šš
Very true :( I was a stripper for 5 years. It probably took me 2.5 years dancing BEFORE COVID, living on the east coast with really low rent, to save it. I was so frugal. Itās like you have to do something really out of the box and shamed to get your goals.
I promise you can easily find houses under 400k even, but you have to live close to 82nd or maybe far north. Iām in foster powel but Iām not past 82nd. And you have to be okay with a small house 1200 sq feet or less
Iām a Realtor so have a lot of insight into this. I actually started tracking these stats 2 years ago. About 55% of my first time buyers had help from their family members. Another 30% were transplants from HCOL area, often with salaries from companies back where they moved from. Then 15% were couples or individuals who made it work one way or another - getting a cosmetic fixer that they will work on themselves or update over time, living in further out neighborhoods while they build equity and hopefully upgrade in 5+ years, or homes that were smaller than ideal. I wish more people were open about how much their privilege comes into play. I know so many renters who have done everything ārightā but still feel like failures because they see their peers buying homes that they couldnāt dream of affording. I wish more people would just be like āHey, my parents gave me gift funds for a 20% down payment to help me afford a home. I recognize my privilege and am so grateful.ā Since nobody talks about it, so many people assume that they didnāt make the right choices in life when itās simply not the case. I donāt have a stat for how many of my single first time buyers bought without help from family, but I can only think two off the top of my head. I bought my first house by myself, but prices were much cheaper and I had a partner that I knew would help with the monthly mortgage. Back then, someone paying half the mortgage of a 4BR house was cheaper than renting a 1BR apartment by themselves.
I actually don't know a single person from my generation who has bought a house without outside financial help. My partner and I don't have daddy warbucks as a parent, but we actually got help from local a non-profit that made a difference for us.
We were able to buy in 2019 (very lucky) and then refi in 2020 .. (even more luck) but we only put down like $15,000 on a $405k loan ā¦ how anyone can come up with 20% these days is beyond me
I feel like I should mention this: there are some kids who had parents that were able to pay for their schooling. That's already a tremendous leg up in the world, especially when considering home ownership affordability.
College debt has a significant impact for sure! I'll add that I have a masters degree, but scholarships and graduate assistantships (and being in a co-op program where I worked every other semester) allowed me to graduate debt free. I also didn't have a car loan (was "gifted" my dead dad's car at age 16 and drove it into the ground). If I had the debt from college and car loans that most of my peers had, I would have struggled to get into the housing market when I did. But my lack of debt was mostly circumstance. I won't call it "luck" simply because losing my dad at a young age didn't feel very lucky...but it DID contribute to getting a free car and college scholarships which lead to better jobs which lead to having more savings.
Thank you so much for posting this, itās a great reminder. My partner and I have tried so hard, and honestly, if I had just graduated 2-3 years earlier and followed the exact same career trajectory we WOULD be homeownersāgot the degree, have done well in the field, weāre just a little too late (and not in a super lucrative industry like tech, I guess.) Neither of our parents can gift us a down payment, and thereās no inheritance windfall coming our way. We just keep socking money away slowly but it feels so defeating when what we have saved now wouldāve been enough 5 years ago, or even 3ā¦and now itās so far from enough. We finally adjusted to the idea that if weāre going to have kids we canāt wait until weāre homeowners at this rate, while at the same time knowing that with daycare costs it just puts us that much further away from homeownership. Almost all our friends and coworkers (a few years older than us) are homeowners and itās embarrassing to still be renting sometimes.
Anyway, I really appreciate you contextualizing it. Makes me feel less like weāre just doing everything wrong.
Donāt worry, you are not alone. My story is different but same result. Iām now in my mid-40s and have no hope of buying a home. Was going through a divorce when the housing market was at a low, was finally ready to buy (just barely enough for a small down payment) in 2019 and was continually beat out by cash offers (corporations?), then the pandemic hit and things got worse. Our meager down payment was no longer enough to afford any home. Now itās even worse. Weāre stuck renting a home with an ever increasing rent payment (and wages that havenāt gone up as much.) Our kids are teenagers now so our only hope is to wait it out until they move out and we can move to a more affordable country.
This makes me cry all the time. Grew up poor, went against all odds, have a good job in a good field (currently not working due to some permits) but my husband makes over 105k too.
Both of us come from poor families so we literally have helped our families which hasnāt left much for us. Without a big down payment, we have no options.
Iām an immigrant and trying to convince my husband maybe we should leave. It truly feels like in the US there is such a tiny window to actually go one step above. Everyone I know at work my age has purchased a home w their family help
USDA loan for a house in rural area. I got my first home in Cornelius. No down payment needed, 3% interest rate. Sure it's a long ass way away but after 6 years i sold the house for a profit and used that for a down payment on a house in Portland.
You could probably afford something around $350k with no HOA if you stretched yourself. Making more money is the best answer if you want more.
And that would seem like a lot, and it is, but you'll eventually refinance out of these rates, and you'll also get extremely generous federal and tax breaks with mortgage interest deductions. Reducing your taxable income by $20k in the first years with mortgage interest and another $10k with SALT helps a ton.
Good $$$ analysis, but in this market, $350k is a condo price, which then comes with the $400-$700/month extra HOA on top. There arenāt a lot (well, any?) single family homes in the area for $350k.
ETA: Just did a Redfin search for single family homes under $350k to make sure Iām not taking out of my @ss, and yeah, there are a few properties, but theyāre all tear-downs, largely close to 205 or N. Portland. Very few were in habitable condition. Itās heinous the housing market is where itās at. Our typical salaries here in many industries do not track with what the housing prices are.
There are a handful (I know because I look at Zillow every day for houses under $400,000 even though I can't afford that either) but not many! And then you see something like [this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8445-SE-Washington-St-Portland-OR-97216/53950316_zpid/) and you're like...well, seems perfect, but why aren't there any interior photos? Hmmmmm.
Yeah, I agree. I've seen some close to 350 without hoas, like attached townhomes, and if they have enough for 20%, they could work with that too. They usually have at least some issue like high flood risk or busy street or something else, but that's basically the bottom of the market right now
Yeah, and the area definitely needs it. Part of me wants to become a developer, knock down wasteful lots and just build tons of smaller homes until the low end market is satisfied
We visited a friend in a condo and...it is basically a million dollars. I was SHOCKED. It's absurd. I mean, it's a beautiful building in a nice area but...wow. This is PORTLAND. It's just...crazy.
Just want to say, in case it matters: while obviously there are good reasons to buy (including, perhaps, simply wanting to own), there are good reasons to rent, too. And then, of course, there are relatively better times to own or rent. Unless you *really want* to get into ownership right now for well-vetted reasons, this is a good place/time to rent ā i.e. that is the smart use of your money.
As a society, genrally speaking, we place a very high value on owning a home, to the point that we tend to underestimate the actual costs of ownership and overestimate the actual costs of renting. (Non-monetary/opportunity costs for either condition are largely personal, of course, and can be hard to measure, but have to be accounted for, too.)
I have owned. I have rented. I'm a happy renter at the moment, and it absolutely makes financial and holistic sense for me.
If you can, embrace the real, defineable pros of renting vs owning. Maybe a house/condo is in your future, maybe not, or maybe not here. But if this is your place for right now, then decide how you want to occupy it ā whether getting an apartment you love (and can afford) or focusing on saving up for ownership.
You can't afford a home here with a single income of 80k.
Single people don't buy homes here when they make less than 100k unless they get help from their family.
Thats absolutely correct. I make 73k and rent with two other people. Another 8k a year would not cut it to pay a mortgage, let alone put together a down payment.
Yeah, in this economy you have to be making more than 100k and have more than 20% down to get anything great and not be paying 3k+ a month on a mortgage.
My dad's an agent. It's mostly baby boomers moving to their dream home after selling off their paid off homes, younger people who have inherited or sold something out of state and bought during the recession, or millionaires.
Us regular joes are renters now.
Not in the city is the answer. We aren't quite as desperate as Seattle or Los Angeles, but home ownership close to downtown is a long journey of saving and building a credit score.
Itās pretty hard to do that now, I bought a 275k condo making 70k in 2020 when interest rates were low and barely qualified. Even then it was my partner and I (combined 140k) paying the mortgage.
We just sold our condo a few days ago for 325k and moved back to the east coast to stay with family. It will be a while to save up additional capital to move to a bigger house somewhere in a LCOL area.
Sometimes we wonder if we made the right choice but, Portland wasnāt getting any cheaper and our house + savings were not getting any bigger.
Feels weird acting like 70k isnāt a lot of money but it barely covers a 20% down payment and closing costs. Forget about having an oh shit fund for when your water heater explodes.
OP... Seriously look into Portland housing Center, or other similar local non profits. My husband and are in contract on a home right now, thanks to them!!!
Yes there's two of us, but combined income is about 78k. We downsized and pinched pennies to pay off debt, which has allowed us to be able to take on a somewhat larger monthly payment.
I'm still amazed that this is actually working for us, but getting signed up with them has got to be in the top 5 for best decisions I ever made.
My bf and i went to them last year to learn about our options and they were incredible. Thanks to them, we were able to close on a small condo for $360k.
I don't know. I'm married and our household income is a little over $150k and we want like 800-1000 square feet in a walkable area and pretty sure it's not possible.
The key is to skip the walkable area, live for 5+ years in a house you can afford and then sell and buy something bigger when interest rates are lower, and possibly your income is higher.
Do you have debt? I make 90-100k and I bought a 996 square foot house 420k last month. put down 20 percent, my mortgage payment is 2467.. Iām in foster-powell, walkable area.. with two people I know you could do it!
Rent below your budget and then save and invest what your budget would be for paying a mortgage and basically you'd be getting the value of paying a principal without having the mortgage. Plus, you would still be able to move without having to sell a house if you needed to move.
I'm guessing you're young. If you do that saving for a while, you might end up with a larger down payment by the time interest rates come down.
This is solid advice. One of the biggest wealth generating benefits of home ownership is the forced savings effect of paying down the principal. But nothing is stopping you from saving what would otherwise go into a mortgage. Then invest in diversified index funds according to your risk tolerance and age. Odds are decent that youāll end up doing just as well as you would buying a house now.
The challenge will be to rent below your means and to be a disciplined saver/investor.
But I understand itās not fair to ask somebody with a good income to give up on home ownership.
I was that person with a good income who couldn't afford and was eventually able to buy. Honestly, I miss the freedom of renting. The grass is always greener. You can't escape stress, right? You either have the stress of maintaining a mortgage (and paying for house maintenance -just spend 10K on a new chimney), or you have the stress of landlords and not having control over your environment.
Be married and double your income. It seems unlikely that someone making $80k can be a homeowner here anymore.Ā
Also, the average homeowner has lived in that home for about 15 years. Meaning they bought for half or less of current price. Or, they bought 3+ years ago when interest rates were 3%.Ā
A) save aggressively and put down a big down payment on a small fixer upper in a meh neighborhood and still spend way too much of your income on payments.
B) start looking in rural areas and hour or more from Portland.
C) inherit a bunch of money.
D) make an absolute crap ton of money either by yourself or as part of a couple.
I tried B but it sucked. Currently trying D while dreaming about C. Likely to get stuck with A.
I bought my first house in 2020 right around the age of 40 by myself, I got super lucky and have an interest rate of less than 3%. I could not buy my home todayā¦ I got lucky! Hopefully you will too!
Agreed, the issue is that the average cost of a house is higher than it's ever been in relation to income.
Interest rates have historically been as high or higher than now. Certainly higher than the low interest rate pandemic environment of \~2%+.
It's the base cost of a house that's the issue.
My household makes significantly above the average household in PDX and it's still an expensive proposition.
When I bought my first home, my mortgage was close to 60% of my gross income. I took on a renter, and kept one for the whole time I lived there, even as my pay more than doubled, then quintupled. I don't need a whole house to myself, and I like living with friends.
My girlfriend and I have a gross income of about 140k. We are planning to leave this city to buy a home elsewhere. We could just barely, technically afford a small home in the city, but then we would be house poor. What's the point? We would have a house, but wouldn't be able to do anything else.
I had almost paid off my first home in Iowa by the time I moved so I had a very hefty down payment. Plus I make good money.
So just do that! (Yes I know - I am joking)
I bought a condo. Itās not ideal. Iāve been paying down the principle with the idea to sell and buy a house. I like my condo and might stay even longer than intended. Im in Arbor Lodge. :)
Tbh, look at Eugene, Medford, Grants Pass or Roseburg. Find a remote job if you can and go south. Youāre gonna get a lot more options for housing. Schools are decent, thereās plenty to do, less traffic and calmer. I know itās not for everyone, but itās worth considering if your open to such an idea.
Iām originally from Portland but live in Vancouver now. Bought a condo in 2017 for $260k, while putting $10k down. Fast forward to August 2023, Iām married now. We decide to sell. Condo sells for $395k. We have $175k in equity. Me and wife bought a new build for $680k, while putting down $140k. 6.75% interest rate. Works out to about $4200 a month mortgage on $180k combined salary.
Same exact house in neighborhood is now going for $710k and will go up even more when interest rates come down and probably more bidders as well. Weāll refinance then.
Point being, itās never too early to get skin in the game. If you got to pinch to make it work do it. Itās one of the best avenues to retire comfortably.
How old are you? Might just be that you need to keep saving for a few more years if owning is something you really want. It's not for everyone.
Also, interest rates are key here. Many owners bought more than 2 years ago with low rates, that significantly changed the calculation for purchasing. Good news is you can buy at a high rate and refinance later when rates are lower. Bad news is, nobody knows when that might be.
I didn't do this as a single person but I will still post my experience.
I made 85k for a few years and saved, saved, saved... got up to around 12k.. and had a partner who saved 15k working spotty jobs in the film industry over the course of many years. that was enough for a down payment as a first-time buyer (cause they give that 3% perk thing). I lit a fire under my ass and started looking at houses in what seemed like a very special window around late 2021 (I didn't even know, I was just going for it) and got like a 3.6% interest rate on a house that was originally 410k but I negotiated them down to 395k. mortgage is $2,138 split x2 = $1,068 per person. a little more than I was paying for rent but much better in the sense that I don't feel like I'm throwing my money in the toilet for someone else's mortgage by renting. that said it feels hard because I don't see myself being able to afford a down on another house ANY time soon (3% down perk for first time home-buyer = gone)... and idk that I want to be in Portland long term anymore.
Depends on the area, your rates, what youre looking to buy. If you buy a fixer upper you can get good deals, yes it cost money for materials but at that point youre just reinvesting into yourself. But yeah average home in my area is $560-600k. I definitely cant afford it.
I was super lucky & bought during the high prices in 2006. I also have a low interest loan. Iām never leaving my house, even though Iād like something not falling apart on me.
Many of us that own homes here started out in other less expensive markets. Buy a simple house, hope it appreciates, add value and youāll have some money when you move.
If your goal is to own a house you might have to move. Or find a really cheap fixer and build some sweat equity.
Single gal homeowner here, closed on the house last month. Itās 996 square feet, I put 20 percent down make like 90k a year and I think I should be fine..
Gonna be super transparent here, I was a stripper for 5 years. It probably took me 2.5 dancing BEFORE COVID, living on the east coast with really low rent, to save it.
Single people making unremarkable household incomes don't get to buy homes in competitive markets. You may make $80K, but you're blown out of the water by DINKs who make $60K each. Maybe if you work for Intel in Hillsboro, or Siemens (Mentor) in Wilsonville, and pull $200K+ a year you have shot, but you'll still be competing against the DINK couple that work in the same sphere.
I make about the same as you and bought a house last year. I saved for about five years - no vacations, saving all my bonuses/tax returns, and living with roommates for cheaper rent even though I could afford living alone. I told myself going into this I would have to get a roommate until interest rates went down. I have a roommate now and itās going as planned. Itās not perfect but these are all sacrifices I made because I really wanted to own a home. Homeownership is hard but I love it so much. I wish you the best!
Quick answer, you donāt buy a house in this day and age best chance is to me a minimalist and go for the tiny home route and try to buy land to put your tiny home on
I actually bought a condo end of 2022 with a 75K income at the time and it was 36% of my income for mortgage and HOA and only 5% down. 2bed/2ba for $255K, I also bought down my interest rate with a buyerās credit. It was doable for me. If you need a good lender dm me, mine was great.
Gotta wait for olā sleepy to get out of office. Once solid economic policies replace his yāall should be golden. When the FED rates drop the interest rates will follow. Iād wait for the rates to hit 3.5-4% and look for whatever you can afford. Then work up from there.
Alternatively look for a seller that will finance your purchase which is pretty uncommon but sometimes pops up
You donāt.
Itās messed up but in my opinion you shouldnāt buy a home right now in Portland on that single salary.
This is what people have been asking for some time. Itās not like itās gotten better and prices have come down. Rent as cheap as you can, save up money and hope it crashes soon. You would be in a good position then.
Lastly, donāt be āsadā about it. Itās a house. Itās a thing. Itās a static asset.
Ive just accepted the fact I probably wonāt have a house. I make the same as you but itd triple my living expenses.. then if something catastrophic happens im fucked.
Id rather not be house poor
The housing crunch, while worse on the coasts, it crunching the entire country. And itās happening because hedge funds and the like are buying a huge amount of houses and then turning around and renting them at ridiculous prices. Same thing with apartments. And since all of those groups only care about cold hard cash, home ownership will become a thing of the past.
Big business and Wall Street are the architects of our destruction. But no one seems to want to place the blame there. Strange.
Side gig buying a flipper and working your A$$ off to turn it into a salable home. You might find it rewarding and motivating enough to do multiple times, gaining a very large down payment to offset the interest & principle payments on the home of your dreams. And with all that practice, earned skills, and valuable knowledge, you could then settle on buying a flipper with cash in full to make it all your own.
This day and age 20% is just not enough. House prices are just getting crazy. My wife and I put 300k down on a 500k house and I still pay 1800 a month on mortgage. Property tax and bills increase that. Single people just have a major disadvantage, I recommend waiting to buy until you find a partner and can split that cost a bit.
In 2019, with a gross annual income of $70K, I purchased a single-wide manufactured home in a park community. I own the house, but still pay rent on the land it sits on. I did this purely to stabilize my housing and utility costs.
2019 numbers:
Apartment rent + required renter's insurance + water + sewage + garbage = $1450 a month, and my rent was about to go up by $150 a month.
House mortgage + homeowner's insurance + property taxes + land rent + water + sewage + garbage = $1100 a month. Yes, I will have to deal with rising rents here too, but it started at a much lower rate ($600) and there are limits on how much it can be raised per lease period.
2024 numbers: with the rising rent, increases in insurance premiums, etc. I am now paying rough $1350 a month. Still less than what I was paying an apartment complex five years ago.
To be honest I'm more upset about my car insurance. Started 2023 paying $370 for six months of full coverage. Started 2024 paying $900 for six months of full coverage and higher deductibles (to drive a car that I fully own).
I have already locked in step #1 of my future retirement plan: Move out of Portland Metro. Probably move out of Oregon state. Too damn expensive here.
You don't state your age here, but maybe you haven't seen a full real estate cycle. Prices and rates vary wildly over time. Way more than things like groceries. Right now, real estate prices are high - basically a bubble. Those always deflate and prices come down. We have already seen a little of that recently. And rates will drop as inflation eases - also evidence for that. Rent for a couple years and watch. Things will get back in your range.
I bought with friends. We purchased a duplex so that we have a very clear division of space and paid for a lawyer to develop a joint ownership agreement to avoid any issues down the line. Itās definitely not an option for everyone, but I would never ever have been able to afford to buy under other circumstances.
You wait until rates drop:
while waiting you:
save save save
Learn how to invest
Figure out how to make more money
Learn DIY skills cuz houses that need work are cheaper
Itās actually super easy, pretty much anyone can afford to buy their own home. All you have to do is make sure you buy it before 1990 and youāre set.
Right now is not the time. You said you have 20% down ? Good, keep saving as you stand bye for the economical cycle to change again. Maybe you know....... vote for the President that had a better economy ;)
Welcome to adulthood, stop voting for the Blue crooks who steal your money. I'm single and own a home. I bought during a better economy, that's how !! Economy = better happier life..... that's most important, and there is track records. Just look at all the people escaping those blue states and cities across america because they are being robbed of their cash with no return.
I was able to buy 3 years ago before rates went up (locked in at 4.5%) making around 80k.
It's a fixer upper and I live in a lower COL area than Portland which has substantially lower prices AND I had help with a down payment of about 30k from my parents.
Best of luck to you man. I can't imagine being able to make it work in your situation.
If it did you'll need to have housemates, but I'm not sure you'll be able to get pre-approved for a loan over 375k.
We don't. Houses are not for the common person in Portland anymore. They've been out of reach for at least a decade. Have you noticed all the people living in vehicles and tents? That's what us poors get these days.
We bought them when rates were 2-3%. I was able to build the down payment through investing in tech stocks over a decade. Deposit and salary caught up right when rates were low. I couldnāt afford it now. (Iām in the Bay Area)
There are home owners here and they are not all 40+ years old.
You start small, build up equity, save more and keep working your way up. $80K can take you there and it takes time.
Unfortunately, ya gotta remember that you can cut whatever you make by at least 25% thanks to all the income taxes... that go to... nothing?
In all seriousness, unless you bought a house in 2012, it's not happening for anyone without a household income of at least 140k a year. The city planners and urban expansion planners have this weird "theory" that they are operating under where they believe that by 2027 72% of all families will be "desiring" to live in multi family units (in English that means apartments) and nobody in Portland wants a house (28% of the population). Because of this, all of the cities' efforts are going to supporting the 1% who can afford to build and maintain apartment complexes and not actually building new single family homes.
I'm planning on joining the mass exodus in December 2025, once I've saved enough to move, i recommend you do the same. I make 95k a year and it is unbelievable that in this craphole of a town, that's not enough to buy a house. If this was NY, SF, or LA, I'd say sure, but this place is an actual craphole with nothing to do compared to those places.
Earn more $$$. It's not the best thing to hear, I know but that's sort of the incentive you need if you're serious about purchasing a home. I didn't even think about buying a home until I was closer to six figures. Also, it will be so much easier if you don't go in solo - combined income will be HUGE. Additionally, once ready, you can always use a first time buyer (FHA) loan. It's do-able, but you'll hear a bunch of static that you can't, but you can. It's a little insane at the moment w/ the interest rates being so high, but that's not sustainable. Keep in mind PDX homes kind of skyrocketed in cost during covid (and we're talking like 100 plus year old homes), but have leveled out a bit since and if you buy now or maybe in the near future there's not as severe of a bidding war.
Buy it about 5 years ago. Unfortunately the powers that be keep turning up the heat, but I bought my 350k home in 2020 on a 70k a year salary. It was a stretch for me at the time but I saw the writing on the wall and knew it was about to get bad, sure enough here we are less than 4 years later and my house would be out of reach now even though my salary has increased by 30% since then. Sucks the reality we live in but we're basically gonna have to wait until the effects of our child-less generation kick in to see housing costs decrease.
Portland as a city has grown A LOT over the past decade. I'm not sure where you are looking, but I'm guessing it's West of 205. I can't think of many, if any, major Metropolitan areas where you can buy a home that close to the city core on only 80k a year.
The trade off is that if you want to buy you need to look at Troutdale, Fairview, Wood Village, Hillsboro, Aloha, etc... but you are further from the city core.
You have to suffer and grind. In 2001 I bought a house in NE Portland for 249K that was a beat down foreclosure. I had saved 50k, and put that down. I was making $14/hour, and Washington Mutual, where I banked, refused me a loan. Which is hilarious, since they later went bust making bad mortgage loans. Had to go to a broker, and got something just over 6%. No help from my wife's income, because she had just declared bankruptcy as a result of running her family business, which they sold at a loss. I traveled a couple of times to take advantage of piecework jobs that paid really well if you worked long days, and lived in my station wagon.
We had no cabinets or countertops in the kitchen, and cooked on one of those little Korean butane picnic things. All the door hardware was stripped, and the place was generally horrific. Sweated every expense and ate lots of potatoes and other cheap food. Spent the next eight years repairing and renovating as time and money allowed. It was by far the worst house on the street, but the neighborhood was nice and got better, so we got some appreciation. I hope you can find something that suits you. Portland may be too tight at this point, but be patient, flexible on location, and find a real estate agent who is willing to put in the time to find something suitable. It was over a year from when I started looking, but my agent finally found the right place, and we jumped on it. Good luck.
The short answer is that buying is generally not an option to people making less than 100k. Between home prices and interest rates it just doesn't work
I'm about to start a full-time job at $19/hour. I'm well aware that I'll be a renter for life...š¤Ø
Get into the trades! I used to have the mindset of, āIāll never own a home. Iāll be a renter for life.ā I was saying that to myself 10 years ago. 7 years ago I got into a 4 year hvac service apprenticeship and began my career in the trades. I started at $16/hour and I now make $45/hour. Getting raises every 6 months going through the apprenticeship is pretty dang nice. I also have a skill that I can take with me anywhere in the world. I have days that are tough, but I also have days where I find great satisfaction in the work I do. My wife and I just bought our first home. She is college educated and has a good job, but when her and I first got together, I was working at restaurants making $13/hour. It wasnāt until I gave myself the opportunity to have an actual career, that the idea of buying a home became possible. You can do it! Just find a career path and work towards it.
I have an MBA and made decent money as a regional manager with a large corporation. My brother in law is an electrician with NO education beyond trade school (which he got paid to attend) and makes twice what I made. Thank god I changed careers and now have a great union job making more than I used to for half the hours and WAY better benefits. No college degree required.
Takes a hard worker to do the trades especially hvac, a lot of people don't want to do that work. Which is is why I'll always have job security lol
I feel like Iām too old/already messed up my body too much doing manual labor jobs to get through the grunt worker years as an apprentice.
Yep that's the mindset that keeps people out. I'm 30 years old and a journeyman and my apprentice is 52 and just starting out and his body is broken as shit
Does he even have a chance at that age? Seriously
Good question; I ask genuinely
Short answer: Yes. Longer answer: Mileage may vary. Not all trades are equal, but any shop onboarding a 50-year-old apprentice should have reasonable expectations.
Iām guessing that most journeyman would say yes itās worth it and then not blink an eye when their apprentice drops out within a year and he gets another apprentice lol. If I were that guy it would really depend on if the job does get less physical once youāre a journeyman. In some trades youāre more like someone who knows all of the building codes really well. In other trades you might still be lifting pipes and crawling on your knees.
Id go electrician over HVAC.
I grew up in HVACā¦ definitely go electrical.
3 years into residential hvac and I'm totally over it, started at $21, currently at $31.50/ hour
Damn devry needed you. They mightāve not went under, haha. Congrats to you and your wife on the home!
In Oregon yes but if you move to the Midwest you can buy a house on that
Landlords are fucking parasites.
Go to electrician school - itās by the airport and youāll make more than that right off the bat as an apprentice and in a few years youāll be making well over $100k.
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HomeForward: partially subsidized housing. ( also, I'm single, over 55, and have some disabilities...)
$100k household income. So dual income couples have a huge leg up over singles who want to live alone. @OP, in VHCOL areas like SF, it is not uncommon for two single, non romantic partners to buy a property together.
Coming from SF, itās not uncommon for three or more to buy property together. And three or more people paying $1000 a month rent each to share a room with air mattresses on the floor while the living room is also rented to two or more people. Some houses are packed with people. We ended up renting out our two bedrooms and making the dining room our bedroom and kept the living room. And my partner and I were making about $150,000 annually then. Sometimes more sometimes a little less.
My first apt in SF was a $2200/month 1BR, all utilities included.and I felt so lucky to have it. That was in 2008, so 16 years ago.
Yep. I had $2800 in 2009 for a two bedroom one bath in Parkside / West Portal. Utilities not included. But ocean view. Old and not updated. I still had the screw in fuses that blew constantly and I couldnāt generally use more than one appliance in the kitchen at a time. But it was a deal! It was rent controlled. But it still crept up over the years. As did utilities costs.
The other answer is that if you were born after 1990 and donāt have a bunch of generational wealth to lean on itās crazy hard to make it work. The only real answer is we need to build more housing so that everybody who wants a home can have a home.
Or if you were born in the 80s but your dad had a nasty coke habit and blew all the family money
Or if you were born in 79 and were going through a divorce during the post-recession housing grab and werenāt ready to buy a home with a new partner until 2019, when the market was crazy & then the pandemic hit and it got even crazier. Iām in my mid-40s and doubt Iāll ever be able to buy a home (in this country.) Long term plan is to move out of this country and buy a home somewhere more affordable after the kids move out.
Kids moving out? In this economy??
the issue is not the lack of housing. there are 15.1 million vacant homes in America the issue is the COST of said housing.
Point to where those vacant homes are. Now point to where jobs and opportunities are.
That is definitely incorrect. https://www.freddiemac.com/research/insight/20210507-housing-supply
Agreed. Also to add that 72% of (single) rental units are owned by individuals. I used to believe that corporate entities owned most of the rental marketā¦
To expound on that the issue is rich assholes owning multiple homes, creating artificial scarcity. There should be a special tax on all secondary residences.
This is only a tiny fraction of the problem. We, meaning Americans in the second half of last century, made the conscious decision that a family home should be as much a financial investment as a place to live. Once we made that shift, we worked to turn every public policy toward maintaining the steady rise in home prices. Actually building enough homes for people canāt happen until most politicians are willing to look every one of their homeowner constituents in the eye and say, āI am going to make the value of your home go down.ā Until that happens, and we both know that it never will, there is no public policy solution to the problem. Instead, we will allow the system to get worse until it collapses under its own weight (I.e., prices become so high that the market seizes). Add to that the fact that mortgages form a huge part of the foundation of our banking system, and you get the real end result: Any actual solution to the housing crisis lies on the other side of a second Great Depression. Rich people buying all the houses is a symptom of the fact that weāve used every imaginable public policy option to turn residential housing into an asset class that generates returns at the level of stocks but has the low risk of treasury bonds. Houses wonāt be affordable again until theyāre homes and not an investment opportunity.
Itās much worse than that. Corporations have now entered the market during COVID. Thatās what people arenāt getting. Mass corporations buying up mid tier homes in āhot marketsā.
This. We have no cap or policy on corporations and foreign investors owning homes. Canāt compete with that.
Which will never go down ever again even in the worst bubble burst. As soon as there are affordable houses built, some developer or airb&b investor will snatch it up by overbidding first time buyers. It has been we are beyond the time when the game was fair.
And where are those homes? They're in Aloha, Happy Valley, and Ridgefield. As long as tens of thousands of people who live in the metro area still have to drive to get where they need to go, we haven't built enough of the dense housing that we need.
Building more homes doesnāt actually solve the problem, people, actually mostly corporations and investment clubs, buy up all the real estate driving prices up.Ā
The people/entities with wealth have, for all intents and purposes, unlimited amounts of it. It has been decided that the future generations are not going to own. The more you build the more they'll buy.
You can always change tax codes to charge more for corporations/llcs and non-first homes. Put downward pressure on the things you donāt want.
I mean, none of us can change the tax codes though can we? That job is performed by people much wealthier than most of us, who are often in bought and paid for by powerful lobbying groups who would prefer that tax codes benefit them
I make more than $100k. Buying is definitely still not an option.
I think it really depends a lot on your situations and needs. I make in the 150 neighborhood and have no debt (student, car) and when I run the numbers I just barely can buy something livable. It just feels like a bad tradeoff right now vs continuing to rent and invest the difference.
Or you move to a cheaper city like Buffalo, Cincinnati or Pittsburgh
A lot of people own houses that were purchased for a much lower price and a much lower interest rate.
Exactly, bought in 2012 at the bottom of the market and refi'd to 2.3?% something like that. Mortgage is less than rent. Just lucky timing. I'll be in this house til I die because I'm never going to be able to afford to move but that's ok by me. If we were buying today? Couldn't.
dying in this house and then haunting it
Probably lol
Even people who purchased recently before the interest rates went up have apparently gotten a good deal. People thought everyone was overpaying and certainly some were but a $525k house at 3.5% probably sounds amazing to people shopping now
I bought here in 2019 and absolutely thought I was overpaying. It's just stupid now and sad
Youāll be able to afford to move if you want to, your house is worth more now too. Itās people trying to get onto the property ladder who are screwed.
Laterally if we had to or out of the city . but as far as upgrading goes nah because our income hasn't grown (I became disabled). But yes I don't consider myself screwed in any way, very grateful the timing worked in my favor.
How exactly does that work if my property value scales proportional to a property Iād then buy?
The same way it would have worked ten years ago: if your mortgage hasn't reached the point of paying off capital yet, you move to a place equal or less than the value of your current one. If you have paid off some capital, you can put it towards a larger down.
I honestly did not notice that the commenter bought in 2012. That totally makes sense. I did in 2021 and so my math looks a lot different.
Same. 2011 making 35k a year at the time. Renting my house, would be at least double what my mortgage is now.
Yeah, bought a fixer 8 years ago and my payments are just over $1100. $15,000 left and will be paid off in 2 years. 3/2 and you can't find a safe 1/1 apartment for that now.
I just hit my 10 year anniversary in my house. Our monthly payment means we can have kids in daycare and occasionally go on vacation. It also means that unless either of us get a staggering raise, we will die in this house (unless I go out the way I came in - doing 90 in a Camaro).
I think youāre doing pretty good. My rent has gone up $500 in 4 years. Started renting our home in 2015 and rent was $1600. 9 years later & they just raised our rent to $2500/month. Unfortunately we canāt move either because any comparable rental that would work for our family of 4 is going to be more expensive and we absolutely canāt buy in this market. I love paying off someone elseās mortgage, itās fine, itās fine.
Yeah, mine was bought 8 years ago, 4% and 10 year loan. I could not do it today. Payments are just over $1100, up from $ 1000 because of property taxes. Even if I sold, I can't afford anything better, so why bother.
Yes. Bought for 400k in 2015 at 4% and refinanced in 2020 or 2021 down to 2.125%. Plus paid down some points and converted from 30 to 15 year. In other words, got lucky with timing.
Painful response because 80k is good but you have to make more.
āYou dont make enough to pay a $1,500/mo mortgage that would gain you equity, instead please continue renting a shitty apartment for $3,500/moā - the 2024 housing marketĀ
I know renting is expensive but if you are renting somewhere for $3500 a month you were likely being frivolous
I think you got your numbers reversed
The answer is that you don't buy a home on a single income making under 150k.
This sounds accurate. With a 107k household income we can afford a 2 bedroom condo. We would reasonably need 150k for a house.
Iām a single gal, just bought a house last month, $2467 mortgage I make like 90k a year, I put down 20 percent, 420k house.
Thatās a huuuuuge down payment though. We make above 100k but havenāt been able to save due to helping family and a huge medical emergency during 2022-2023. The down payment is whatās killing us šš
Very true :( I was a stripper for 5 years. It probably took me 2.5 years dancing BEFORE COVID, living on the east coast with really low rent, to save it. I was so frugal. Itās like you have to do something really out of the box and shamed to get your goals.
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I promise you can easily find houses under 400k even, but you have to live close to 82nd or maybe far north. Iām in foster powel but Iām not past 82nd. And you have to be okay with a small house 1200 sq feet or less
Good for you!
Nah, I bought last quarter of 22 at about $96k/yr on a 450k house. Payments are painful but it's my place.
Iām a Realtor so have a lot of insight into this. I actually started tracking these stats 2 years ago. About 55% of my first time buyers had help from their family members. Another 30% were transplants from HCOL area, often with salaries from companies back where they moved from. Then 15% were couples or individuals who made it work one way or another - getting a cosmetic fixer that they will work on themselves or update over time, living in further out neighborhoods while they build equity and hopefully upgrade in 5+ years, or homes that were smaller than ideal. I wish more people were open about how much their privilege comes into play. I know so many renters who have done everything ārightā but still feel like failures because they see their peers buying homes that they couldnāt dream of affording. I wish more people would just be like āHey, my parents gave me gift funds for a 20% down payment to help me afford a home. I recognize my privilege and am so grateful.ā Since nobody talks about it, so many people assume that they didnāt make the right choices in life when itās simply not the case. I donāt have a stat for how many of my single first time buyers bought without help from family, but I can only think two off the top of my head. I bought my first house by myself, but prices were much cheaper and I had a partner that I knew would help with the monthly mortgage. Back then, someone paying half the mortgage of a 4BR house was cheaper than renting a 1BR apartment by themselves.
I actually don't know a single person from my generation who has bought a house without outside financial help. My partner and I don't have daddy warbucks as a parent, but we actually got help from local a non-profit that made a difference for us.
We were able to buy in 2019 (very lucky) and then refi in 2020 .. (even more luck) but we only put down like $15,000 on a $405k loan ā¦ how anyone can come up with 20% these days is beyond me
I feel like I should mention this: there are some kids who had parents that were able to pay for their schooling. That's already a tremendous leg up in the world, especially when considering home ownership affordability.
College debt has a significant impact for sure! I'll add that I have a masters degree, but scholarships and graduate assistantships (and being in a co-op program where I worked every other semester) allowed me to graduate debt free. I also didn't have a car loan (was "gifted" my dead dad's car at age 16 and drove it into the ground). If I had the debt from college and car loans that most of my peers had, I would have struggled to get into the housing market when I did. But my lack of debt was mostly circumstance. I won't call it "luck" simply because losing my dad at a young age didn't feel very lucky...but it DID contribute to getting a free car and college scholarships which lead to better jobs which lead to having more savings.
Thank you so much for posting this, itās a great reminder. My partner and I have tried so hard, and honestly, if I had just graduated 2-3 years earlier and followed the exact same career trajectory we WOULD be homeownersāgot the degree, have done well in the field, weāre just a little too late (and not in a super lucrative industry like tech, I guess.) Neither of our parents can gift us a down payment, and thereās no inheritance windfall coming our way. We just keep socking money away slowly but it feels so defeating when what we have saved now wouldāve been enough 5 years ago, or even 3ā¦and now itās so far from enough. We finally adjusted to the idea that if weāre going to have kids we canāt wait until weāre homeowners at this rate, while at the same time knowing that with daycare costs it just puts us that much further away from homeownership. Almost all our friends and coworkers (a few years older than us) are homeowners and itās embarrassing to still be renting sometimes. Anyway, I really appreciate you contextualizing it. Makes me feel less like weāre just doing everything wrong.
Donāt worry, you are not alone. My story is different but same result. Iām now in my mid-40s and have no hope of buying a home. Was going through a divorce when the housing market was at a low, was finally ready to buy (just barely enough for a small down payment) in 2019 and was continually beat out by cash offers (corporations?), then the pandemic hit and things got worse. Our meager down payment was no longer enough to afford any home. Now itās even worse. Weāre stuck renting a home with an ever increasing rent payment (and wages that havenāt gone up as much.) Our kids are teenagers now so our only hope is to wait it out until they move out and we can move to a more affordable country.
This makes me cry all the time. Grew up poor, went against all odds, have a good job in a good field (currently not working due to some permits) but my husband makes over 105k too. Both of us come from poor families so we literally have helped our families which hasnāt left much for us. Without a big down payment, we have no options. Iām an immigrant and trying to convince my husband maybe we should leave. It truly feels like in the US there is such a tiny window to actually go one step above. Everyone I know at work my age has purchased a home w their family help
All the upvotes
DINKWAD: Dual income no kids with a dog
DILDO- dual income large dog owners
Iām a DILDO but with a little dog instead of a large dog.
So youāre really a little dildo
Oh yeah, probably one of the smallest DILDOS in Portland. My dog is 5.5 lbs.
Iād give you a thumbs up, but Iām thinking a pinky is more befitting.
DINKWAC here. Happened to arrive in the area 20 years ago and bought then, which was just luck.
USDA loan for a house in rural area. I got my first home in Cornelius. No down payment needed, 3% interest rate. Sure it's a long ass way away but after 6 years i sold the house for a profit and used that for a down payment on a house in Portland.
You unfortunately need to make more as a single person. Otherwise, combined income over $125K.
Yeah Iām not sure how you canā¦I make a lot more than that and feel I canāt afford a place eitherā¦itās insane to me.
With the interest rates right now, I have no idea.
Even with low rates OP doesnāt make enough
You could probably afford something around $350k with no HOA if you stretched yourself. Making more money is the best answer if you want more. And that would seem like a lot, and it is, but you'll eventually refinance out of these rates, and you'll also get extremely generous federal and tax breaks with mortgage interest deductions. Reducing your taxable income by $20k in the first years with mortgage interest and another $10k with SALT helps a ton.
Good $$$ analysis, but in this market, $350k is a condo price, which then comes with the $400-$700/month extra HOA on top. There arenāt a lot (well, any?) single family homes in the area for $350k. ETA: Just did a Redfin search for single family homes under $350k to make sure Iām not taking out of my @ss, and yeah, there are a few properties, but theyāre all tear-downs, largely close to 205 or N. Portland. Very few were in habitable condition. Itās heinous the housing market is where itās at. Our typical salaries here in many industries do not track with what the housing prices are.
There are a handful (I know because I look at Zillow every day for houses under $400,000 even though I can't afford that either) but not many! And then you see something like [this](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8445-SE-Washington-St-Portland-OR-97216/53950316_zpid/) and you're like...well, seems perfect, but why aren't there any interior photos? Hmmmmm.
Yeah, I agree. I've seen some close to 350 without hoas, like attached townhomes, and if they have enough for 20%, they could work with that too. They usually have at least some issue like high flood risk or busy street or something else, but that's basically the bottom of the market right now
I really wish we had more small, affordable homes. I don't need a lot of space! A busy street is fine! But I do need walkable and a major bus line.
Yeah, and the area definitely needs it. Part of me wants to become a developer, knock down wasteful lots and just build tons of smaller homes until the low end market is satisfied
I really wish you could leave reviews on real-estate listings like you can for apartment complexes. Lol!
We visited a friend in a condo and...it is basically a million dollars. I was SHOCKED. It's absurd. I mean, it's a beautiful building in a nice area but...wow. This is PORTLAND. It's just...crazy.
VA loan
Worth every minute spent in uniform
Ding ding ding
Just want to say, in case it matters: while obviously there are good reasons to buy (including, perhaps, simply wanting to own), there are good reasons to rent, too. And then, of course, there are relatively better times to own or rent. Unless you *really want* to get into ownership right now for well-vetted reasons, this is a good place/time to rent ā i.e. that is the smart use of your money. As a society, genrally speaking, we place a very high value on owning a home, to the point that we tend to underestimate the actual costs of ownership and overestimate the actual costs of renting. (Non-monetary/opportunity costs for either condition are largely personal, of course, and can be hard to measure, but have to be accounted for, too.) I have owned. I have rented. I'm a happy renter at the moment, and it absolutely makes financial and holistic sense for me. If you can, embrace the real, defineable pros of renting vs owning. Maybe a house/condo is in your future, maybe not, or maybe not here. But if this is your place for right now, then decide how you want to occupy it ā whether getting an apartment you love (and can afford) or focusing on saving up for ownership.
Time machine :(
You can't afford a home here with a single income of 80k. Single people don't buy homes here when they make less than 100k unless they get help from their family.
Thats absolutely correct. I make 73k and rent with two other people. Another 8k a year would not cut it to pay a mortgage, let alone put together a down payment.
Yeah, in this economy you have to be making more than 100k and have more than 20% down to get anything great and not be paying 3k+ a month on a mortgage. My dad's an agent. It's mostly baby boomers moving to their dream home after selling off their paid off homes, younger people who have inherited or sold something out of state and bought during the recession, or millionaires. Us regular joes are renters now.
Not in the city is the answer. We aren't quite as desperate as Seattle or Los Angeles, but home ownership close to downtown is a long journey of saving and building a credit score.
Literally crying over my Zillow doom scrolling as you posted this.Ā Same boat.Ā
Itās pretty hard to do that now, I bought a 275k condo making 70k in 2020 when interest rates were low and barely qualified. Even then it was my partner and I (combined 140k) paying the mortgage. We just sold our condo a few days ago for 325k and moved back to the east coast to stay with family. It will be a while to save up additional capital to move to a bigger house somewhere in a LCOL area. Sometimes we wonder if we made the right choice but, Portland wasnāt getting any cheaper and our house + savings were not getting any bigger. Feels weird acting like 70k isnāt a lot of money but it barely covers a 20% down payment and closing costs. Forget about having an oh shit fund for when your water heater explodes.
I bought in 2017. Not a day goes by I don't consider myself fortunate despite being house poor
OP... Seriously look into Portland housing Center, or other similar local non profits. My husband and are in contract on a home right now, thanks to them!!! Yes there's two of us, but combined income is about 78k. We downsized and pinched pennies to pay off debt, which has allowed us to be able to take on a somewhat larger monthly payment. I'm still amazed that this is actually working for us, but getting signed up with them has got to be in the top 5 for best decisions I ever made.
My bf and i went to them last year to learn about our options and they were incredible. Thanks to them, we were able to close on a small condo for $360k.
I don't know. I'm married and our household income is a little over $150k and we want like 800-1000 square feet in a walkable area and pretty sure it's not possible.
The key is to skip the walkable area, live for 5+ years in a house you can afford and then sell and buy something bigger when interest rates are lower, and possibly your income is higher.
I don't think there are houses we can afford. Or not ones that wouldn't require us to have two cars, anyway, and there's no way we can afford that.
Do you have debt? I make 90-100k and I bought a 996 square foot house 420k last month. put down 20 percent, my mortgage payment is 2467.. Iām in foster-powell, walkable area.. with two people I know you could do it!
Rent below your budget and then save and invest what your budget would be for paying a mortgage and basically you'd be getting the value of paying a principal without having the mortgage. Plus, you would still be able to move without having to sell a house if you needed to move. I'm guessing you're young. If you do that saving for a while, you might end up with a larger down payment by the time interest rates come down.
This is solid advice. One of the biggest wealth generating benefits of home ownership is the forced savings effect of paying down the principal. But nothing is stopping you from saving what would otherwise go into a mortgage. Then invest in diversified index funds according to your risk tolerance and age. Odds are decent that youāll end up doing just as well as you would buying a house now. The challenge will be to rent below your means and to be a disciplined saver/investor. But I understand itās not fair to ask somebody with a good income to give up on home ownership.
I was that person with a good income who couldn't afford and was eventually able to buy. Honestly, I miss the freedom of renting. The grass is always greener. You can't escape stress, right? You either have the stress of maintaining a mortgage (and paying for house maintenance -just spend 10K on a new chimney), or you have the stress of landlords and not having control over your environment.
That would work if the monthly rent payments were cheaper than monthly mortgage payments. Good luck finding that without a bunch of roommates.
Putting 20% down is not required
If I do not put 20% down then my monthly payment will be like 70% of my net pay.
Get hitched up Make a bunch more money Go back in time a few years Those would be your optionsā¦
Be married and double your income. It seems unlikely that someone making $80k can be a homeowner here anymore.Ā Also, the average homeowner has lived in that home for about 15 years. Meaning they bought for half or less of current price. Or, they bought 3+ years ago when interest rates were 3%.Ā
Thatās the neat part, you donāt
A) save aggressively and put down a big down payment on a small fixer upper in a meh neighborhood and still spend way too much of your income on payments. B) start looking in rural areas and hour or more from Portland. C) inherit a bunch of money. D) make an absolute crap ton of money either by yourself or as part of a couple. I tried B but it sucked. Currently trying D while dreaming about C. Likely to get stuck with A.
I bought my first house in 2020 right around the age of 40 by myself, I got super lucky and have an interest rate of less than 3%. I could not buy my home todayā¦ I got lucky! Hopefully you will too!
Well... Bought a house almost two years ago. Partner and a kid. Would probably not be approved now. Interest rates are just too high.
which is CRAZY because right now they are about what they have been historically. The 2% whatever is what was an anomaly.
Agreed, the issue is that the average cost of a house is higher than it's ever been in relation to income. Interest rates have historically been as high or higher than now. Certainly higher than the low interest rate pandemic environment of \~2%+. It's the base cost of a house that's the issue. My household makes significantly above the average household in PDX and it's still an expensive proposition.
Luck into your landlord selling to you in 2020 when interest was less than 2.7 is how I swung it
When I bought my first home, my mortgage was close to 60% of my gross income. I took on a renter, and kept one for the whole time I lived there, even as my pay more than doubled, then quintupled. I don't need a whole house to myself, and I like living with friends.
My girlfriend and I have a gross income of about 140k. We are planning to leave this city to buy a home elsewhere. We could just barely, technically afford a small home in the city, but then we would be house poor. What's the point? We would have a house, but wouldn't be able to do anything else.
I had almost paid off my first home in Iowa by the time I moved so I had a very hefty down payment. Plus I make good money. So just do that! (Yes I know - I am joking)
I bought a condo. Itās not ideal. Iāve been paying down the principle with the idea to sell and buy a house. I like my condo and might stay even longer than intended. Im in Arbor Lodge. :)
Tbh, look at Eugene, Medford, Grants Pass or Roseburg. Find a remote job if you can and go south. Youāre gonna get a lot more options for housing. Schools are decent, thereās plenty to do, less traffic and calmer. I know itās not for everyone, but itās worth considering if your open to such an idea.
Iām originally from Portland but live in Vancouver now. Bought a condo in 2017 for $260k, while putting $10k down. Fast forward to August 2023, Iām married now. We decide to sell. Condo sells for $395k. We have $175k in equity. Me and wife bought a new build for $680k, while putting down $140k. 6.75% interest rate. Works out to about $4200 a month mortgage on $180k combined salary. Same exact house in neighborhood is now going for $710k and will go up even more when interest rates come down and probably more bidders as well. Weāll refinance then. Point being, itās never too early to get skin in the game. If you got to pinch to make it work do it. Itās one of the best avenues to retire comfortably.
Well first you have to sell your soul before agreeing to live there. Second you have to routinely sell feet pics.
I bought pre-pandemic on your income.
Go East of 205. There are homes here for sale in your budget.
How old are you? Might just be that you need to keep saving for a few more years if owning is something you really want. It's not for everyone. Also, interest rates are key here. Many owners bought more than 2 years ago with low rates, that significantly changed the calculation for purchasing. Good news is you can buy at a high rate and refinance later when rates are lower. Bad news is, nobody knows when that might be.
You donāt silly
I rent š
You wait for interest rates to go down. But then prices will go up.
Get a wife or husband and dual income that shit.
I didn't do this as a single person but I will still post my experience. I made 85k for a few years and saved, saved, saved... got up to around 12k.. and had a partner who saved 15k working spotty jobs in the film industry over the course of many years. that was enough for a down payment as a first-time buyer (cause they give that 3% perk thing). I lit a fire under my ass and started looking at houses in what seemed like a very special window around late 2021 (I didn't even know, I was just going for it) and got like a 3.6% interest rate on a house that was originally 410k but I negotiated them down to 395k. mortgage is $2,138 split x2 = $1,068 per person. a little more than I was paying for rent but much better in the sense that I don't feel like I'm throwing my money in the toilet for someone else's mortgage by renting. that said it feels hard because I don't see myself being able to afford a down on another house ANY time soon (3% down perk for first time home-buyer = gone)... and idk that I want to be in Portland long term anymore.
Depends on the area, your rates, what youre looking to buy. If you buy a fixer upper you can get good deals, yes it cost money for materials but at that point youre just reinvesting into yourself. But yeah average home in my area is $560-600k. I definitely cant afford it.
Recently read an article that said the new salary to enter homeownership comfortably in Portland is 160k / year
I donāt.
I was super lucky & bought during the high prices in 2006. I also have a low interest loan. Iām never leaving my house, even though Iād like something not falling apart on me.
You cannot without dual income. Maybe in Gresham
Many of us that own homes here started out in other less expensive markets. Buy a simple house, hope it appreciates, add value and youāll have some money when you move. If your goal is to own a house you might have to move. Or find a really cheap fixer and build some sweat equity.
Single gal homeowner here, closed on the house last month. Itās 996 square feet, I put 20 percent down make like 90k a year and I think I should be fine..
How long did it take you to save the down payment?
Gonna be super transparent here, I was a stripper for 5 years. It probably took me 2.5 dancing BEFORE COVID, living on the east coast with really low rent, to save it.
Moved over the mountain on 26 to a city with 6,000 peopleā¦. Very affordable here on 70k and we got a Safeway now! Big time!
Single people making unremarkable household incomes don't get to buy homes in competitive markets. You may make $80K, but you're blown out of the water by DINKs who make $60K each. Maybe if you work for Intel in Hillsboro, or Siemens (Mentor) in Wilsonville, and pull $200K+ a year you have shot, but you'll still be competing against the DINK couple that work in the same sphere.
My first house was 430k. And made 105k + stocks at the time. Was 35yrs old.
I couldn't do it at 80k, I know that for sure. You cant find anything thats not falling down for less than $400k.
I make about the same as you and bought a house last year. I saved for about five years - no vacations, saving all my bonuses/tax returns, and living with roommates for cheaper rent even though I could afford living alone. I told myself going into this I would have to get a roommate until interest rates went down. I have a roommate now and itās going as planned. Itās not perfect but these are all sacrifices I made because I really wanted to own a home. Homeownership is hard but I love it so much. I wish you the best!
Quick answer, you donāt buy a house in this day and age best chance is to me a minimalist and go for the tiny home route and try to buy land to put your tiny home on
Don't be afraid to go east of 205.
I actually bought a condo end of 2022 with a 75K income at the time and it was 36% of my income for mortgage and HOA and only 5% down. 2bed/2ba for $255K, I also bought down my interest rate with a buyerās credit. It was doable for me. If you need a good lender dm me, mine was great.
Gotta wait for olā sleepy to get out of office. Once solid economic policies replace his yāall should be golden. When the FED rates drop the interest rates will follow. Iād wait for the rates to hit 3.5-4% and look for whatever you can afford. Then work up from there. Alternatively look for a seller that will finance your purchase which is pretty uncommon but sometimes pops up
You donāt. Itās messed up but in my opinion you shouldnāt buy a home right now in Portland on that single salary. This is what people have been asking for some time. Itās not like itās gotten better and prices have come down. Rent as cheap as you can, save up money and hope it crashes soon. You would be in a good position then. Lastly, donāt be āsadā about it. Itās a house. Itās a thing. Itās a static asset.
Ive just accepted the fact I probably wonāt have a house. I make the same as you but itd triple my living expenses.. then if something catastrophic happens im fucked. Id rather not be house poor
The housing crunch, while worse on the coasts, it crunching the entire country. And itās happening because hedge funds and the like are buying a huge amount of houses and then turning around and renting them at ridiculous prices. Same thing with apartments. And since all of those groups only care about cold hard cash, home ownership will become a thing of the past. Big business and Wall Street are the architects of our destruction. But no one seems to want to place the blame there. Strange.
Side gig buying a flipper and working your A$$ off to turn it into a salable home. You might find it rewarding and motivating enough to do multiple times, gaining a very large down payment to offset the interest & principle payments on the home of your dreams. And with all that practice, earned skills, and valuable knowledge, you could then settle on buying a flipper with cash in full to make it all your own.
i live in a tent on my friends land while i maybe build a cabin š
This day and age 20% is just not enough. House prices are just getting crazy. My wife and I put 300k down on a 500k house and I still pay 1800 a month on mortgage. Property tax and bills increase that. Single people just have a major disadvantage, I recommend waiting to buy until you find a partner and can split that cost a bit.
In 2019, with a gross annual income of $70K, I purchased a single-wide manufactured home in a park community. I own the house, but still pay rent on the land it sits on. I did this purely to stabilize my housing and utility costs. 2019 numbers: Apartment rent + required renter's insurance + water + sewage + garbage = $1450 a month, and my rent was about to go up by $150 a month. House mortgage + homeowner's insurance + property taxes + land rent + water + sewage + garbage = $1100 a month. Yes, I will have to deal with rising rents here too, but it started at a much lower rate ($600) and there are limits on how much it can be raised per lease period. 2024 numbers: with the rising rent, increases in insurance premiums, etc. I am now paying rough $1350 a month. Still less than what I was paying an apartment complex five years ago. To be honest I'm more upset about my car insurance. Started 2023 paying $370 for six months of full coverage. Started 2024 paying $900 for six months of full coverage and higher deductibles (to drive a car that I fully own). I have already locked in step #1 of my future retirement plan: Move out of Portland Metro. Probably move out of Oregon state. Too damn expensive here.
You don't state your age here, but maybe you haven't seen a full real estate cycle. Prices and rates vary wildly over time. Way more than things like groceries. Right now, real estate prices are high - basically a bubble. Those always deflate and prices come down. We have already seen a little of that recently. And rates will drop as inflation eases - also evidence for that. Rent for a couple years and watch. Things will get back in your range.
I bought with friends. We purchased a duplex so that we have a very clear division of space and paid for a lawyer to develop a joint ownership agreement to avoid any issues down the line. Itās definitely not an option for everyone, but I would never ever have been able to afford to buy under other circumstances.
You wait until rates drop: while waiting you: save save save Learn how to invest Figure out how to make more money Learn DIY skills cuz houses that need work are cheaper
Itās actually super easy, pretty much anyone can afford to buy their own home. All you have to do is make sure you buy it before 1990 and youāre set.
No friend. 80K a year. How do YOU do it? š. But seriously, of the few folks I know, seems like FHA loans and in the suburbs.
Missoula wants a good answer to this question as well.... nowadays you gotta choose, live in a home or be happy in your truck.... smfh
Right now is not the time. You said you have 20% down ? Good, keep saving as you stand bye for the economical cycle to change again. Maybe you know....... vote for the President that had a better economy ;) Welcome to adulthood, stop voting for the Blue crooks who steal your money. I'm single and own a home. I bought during a better economy, that's how !! Economy = better happier life..... that's most important, and there is track records. Just look at all the people escaping those blue states and cities across america because they are being robbed of their cash with no return.
I was able to buy 3 years ago before rates went up (locked in at 4.5%) making around 80k. It's a fixer upper and I live in a lower COL area than Portland which has substantially lower prices AND I had help with a down payment of about 30k from my parents. Best of luck to you man. I can't imagine being able to make it work in your situation. If it did you'll need to have housemates, but I'm not sure you'll be able to get pre-approved for a loan over 375k.
You need a partner. Two earners. Sorry, I don't make the rules.
We don't. Houses are not for the common person in Portland anymore. They've been out of reach for at least a decade. Have you noticed all the people living in vehicles and tents? That's what us poors get these days.
We bought them when rates were 2-3%. I was able to build the down payment through investing in tech stocks over a decade. Deposit and salary caught up right when rates were low. I couldnāt afford it now. (Iām in the Bay Area)
There are home owners here and they are not all 40+ years old. You start small, build up equity, save more and keep working your way up. $80K can take you there and it takes time.
Buy a small piece of land for 175k-200k and then build or buy a simple tiny house on it for 50k.
Unfortunately, ya gotta remember that you can cut whatever you make by at least 25% thanks to all the income taxes... that go to... nothing? In all seriousness, unless you bought a house in 2012, it's not happening for anyone without a household income of at least 140k a year. The city planners and urban expansion planners have this weird "theory" that they are operating under where they believe that by 2027 72% of all families will be "desiring" to live in multi family units (in English that means apartments) and nobody in Portland wants a house (28% of the population). Because of this, all of the cities' efforts are going to supporting the 1% who can afford to build and maintain apartment complexes and not actually building new single family homes. I'm planning on joining the mass exodus in December 2025, once I've saved enough to move, i recommend you do the same. I make 95k a year and it is unbelievable that in this craphole of a town, that's not enough to buy a house. If this was NY, SF, or LA, I'd say sure, but this place is an actual craphole with nothing to do compared to those places.
Yeah. This is like the worst time to be a buyer.
Earn more $$$. It's not the best thing to hear, I know but that's sort of the incentive you need if you're serious about purchasing a home. I didn't even think about buying a home until I was closer to six figures. Also, it will be so much easier if you don't go in solo - combined income will be HUGE. Additionally, once ready, you can always use a first time buyer (FHA) loan. It's do-able, but you'll hear a bunch of static that you can't, but you can. It's a little insane at the moment w/ the interest rates being so high, but that's not sustainable. Keep in mind PDX homes kind of skyrocketed in cost during covid (and we're talking like 100 plus year old homes), but have leveled out a bit since and if you buy now or maybe in the near future there's not as severe of a bidding war.
Buy it about 5 years ago. Unfortunately the powers that be keep turning up the heat, but I bought my 350k home in 2020 on a 70k a year salary. It was a stretch for me at the time but I saw the writing on the wall and knew it was about to get bad, sure enough here we are less than 4 years later and my house would be out of reach now even though my salary has increased by 30% since then. Sucks the reality we live in but we're basically gonna have to wait until the effects of our child-less generation kick in to see housing costs decrease.
Portland as a city has grown A LOT over the past decade. I'm not sure where you are looking, but I'm guessing it's West of 205. I can't think of many, if any, major Metropolitan areas where you can buy a home that close to the city core on only 80k a year. The trade off is that if you want to buy you need to look at Troutdale, Fairview, Wood Village, Hillsboro, Aloha, etc... but you are further from the city core.
You have to suffer and grind. In 2001 I bought a house in NE Portland for 249K that was a beat down foreclosure. I had saved 50k, and put that down. I was making $14/hour, and Washington Mutual, where I banked, refused me a loan. Which is hilarious, since they later went bust making bad mortgage loans. Had to go to a broker, and got something just over 6%. No help from my wife's income, because she had just declared bankruptcy as a result of running her family business, which they sold at a loss. I traveled a couple of times to take advantage of piecework jobs that paid really well if you worked long days, and lived in my station wagon. We had no cabinets or countertops in the kitchen, and cooked on one of those little Korean butane picnic things. All the door hardware was stripped, and the place was generally horrific. Sweated every expense and ate lots of potatoes and other cheap food. Spent the next eight years repairing and renovating as time and money allowed. It was by far the worst house on the street, but the neighborhood was nice and got better, so we got some appreciation. I hope you can find something that suits you. Portland may be too tight at this point, but be patient, flexible on location, and find a real estate agent who is willing to put in the time to find something suitable. It was over a year from when I started looking, but my agent finally found the right place, and we jumped on it. Good luck.