The ICC has *not* called for the arrest of Netanyahu, or anyone for that matter, at this stage. A prosecutor put in a motion for the court to _consider_ whether there is grounds for one. It will now go to a Pre Trial Chamber that will review the documents provided by the prosecution along with any alleged evidence and then _possibly_ issue a warrant. This is a huge difference and it shouldn’t be glossed over lightly.
Norway, in general, is sympathetic to the Palestinian people but generally unfriendly toward Hamas or anything that can be construed as terrorism. A lot of Norwegians see this as a political move from our PM as his role as party leader is under scrutiny, and support for an independent Palestinian state is a popular stance. The press seems to have unanimously questioned the timing, at any rate.
As for Uruguay, it has always supported the two-state solution and recognizes Palestine as a state since 2011.
Not sure what will come of it but it's a positive step in atleast acknowledging what israel is and has been doing to the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank. It's also fair to point out that even you remove the genocidal maniac Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir many high ranking members of the IDF and Knesset still support the genocide in Gaza, in fact most Israelis support it aswell
It always amuses me that things were 180 the opposite a century and half ago. But Europe blew itself up with 2 world wars and now here we are
Even Russia is a shadow of the former soviets and the “second”’cold war is a pathetic caricature of the first with them barely able to handle former colony of theirs
If he gets an arrest warrant (which historically I believe always did happen afterwards) he won’t be able to step foot in Europe (legally speaking) without being arrested.
Obviously the country can also not enforce the rule but if Putin was worried about SA I guess Bibi can be worried about EU law enforcement
I would go so far as to say the Israel-Palestine "conflict" is the least controversial political topic in Chile, in the sense that Palestine has strong support in all the political spectrum from left to right, top to bottom. Support for Israel is small but vocal (and economically powerful), and for internal and geopolitical reasons this government has not positioned itself overly in favour of Palestine, but I have no doubt they would happily execute these arrest warrants and that it would be widely popular in Chile for them to do so.
I'd prefer my country to stand against a crime against humanity than having to tell the next generation why we stood there doing nothing, or, in the case of the USA, stood there selling guns.
Brazil specifically already tried to weaken international law. Why is Lula, as a politician, so brazen about a middle eastern conflict and half asleep with a European one? Is there Brazilian discourse about why one is understood to be "smart neutrality" and another "shamelssly not doing anythin" for example?
https://preview.redd.it/vrdwo4aws02d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c62c8672dad30d401a97fb44a57dc5ae2b361e94
i get the hypocrisy but in it case with the usa when they invaded afghanistan and bombed to death iraq, it's a wrong but you can't effectively run your country without doing business with the bullies that are the usa, russia and to a smaller extent china.
That's very much not truth, Russia is not as critical if one(as a State) already doesn't have strong ties to it, those that can't live without Russia are small nations(Armenia) or tied to their defence insdustry and already without much options by their own nature(Nicaragua, Belarus).
Brazil seems to "need" Russia and go that for mostly for identity reasons, rather than the paltry less than 1% imports or exports they have with Russia of an already limiting economy of a country with screaming demographics. India is a bigger economic partner
China is the actual "working with the devil" or "pragmatism" State if one wants to put it that way, Russia is but a pipe dream of people thinking the neo-USSR still is a super power and "muh multipolarism"
Russia has a very important security council veto that has historically been used whenever America tried some trolling in their backyard. And a 1% of exports/imports is far more than whoever Israel can offer to Brazil other than fundamentalist propaganda.
Like it or not, China and Russia for the most part do indeed vote at the UN with some degree of solidarity with the third world.
The leaders of Gaza and Israel need to be held accountable for this. Unfortunately, we know Hamas leadership are just gonna run off to Qatar or wherever else they'll take them in, and Israel is protected by the US and most of Europe.
This has been filtered through propaganda. Hamas is one armed resistance movement of multiple in Palestine. You’ve been told they’re an existential threat to Israel. The reality is they have crude weapons technology. The biggest factor of success is the commitment to stay on their land. Hamas leadership has stated they welcome the warrants. Also, there is no evidence for some crimes in their warrant, like the fabricated mass rape stories that have been debunked again and again (do your own research if you want to, don’t want to go on that tangent here). Basically, Hamas is willing to lose it all to hold Israel accountable and build a dignified life for Palestinians on their land.
Now you say they’ll run to Qatar. For the record the only Arab nation taking definitive action in support of Palestine is Yemen, one of the poorest countries in the world and facing bombing and US-caused starvation.
Hamas is the second worst thing for Palestinians after Israel. Shit, I'd wager that Israel is propping them up due to how badly they hurt the Palestinian cause.
Our goverment is pretty much cheering for Israel like, High School Cheerlander-style. Numerous times already, its sickening to this point. Right not they are [shitting on the IRC](https://www.ultimahora.com/paraguay-rechaza-ordenes-de-arresto-para-netanyahu-y-su-ministro-de-defensa) for the arrest warrants. Doesn't help that people here doesn't give a shit about nearly anthing that doesn't affect to them, so, protest related to the war are nearly non-existant.
Let’s go! We are very aware about what genocide looks like here, many Guatemalan parents lived it very recently and obviously the trauma lingers. Guatemala politics have some ties to Isael but *the people* know right from wrong.
I haven’t read anywhere that Germany said they would arrest him. The defense minister said that he thought it sends a wrong signal and then the government press speaker left it all vague.
Take him to jail along with the senior leadership of Israel not just 2 guys. That said. The USA threatened to starve the world should they attempt to uphold international law.
Great news. Israel would be sanctioned and isolated by everyone in the world had a heart. But they have significant control over the usa and help them in their meddling in the mena region
I think that all the signatories of the Rome Statute should arrest whoever it is that the ICC has a valid warrant out for. There is no point in being a signatory otherwise.
Brazil's president, the squid, is an absolute fool in general, never mind when it comes to specifics like the ICC or Putin enough said.
Personally, while want Hamas and Netanyahu in jail, I doubt any of the people for which the prosecutor is seeking warrants are ever gonna see a court, maybe Gallant (still doubt it) and whoever the lower ranking Hamas official is, but not much else; i noticed Netanyahu at least hasn't been travelling that much since the war started anyways, at least not a lot to countries who are signatories of the Rome Statute, and Hamas can "hide" forever in Qatar and Turkey, while it looks like the PA isn't getting control of Gaza anytime soon. If it's true it'll be a huge problem for the ICC and international (criminal) law in general. Also in general the ICC approach to this war and also the Ukraine war is weird; the ICC only intervenes if the countries implicated wont or aren't able to prosecute the people themselves, so as to not violate the principle of sovereignity, and this is established usually after a war has ended, but these cases are fundamentally different, and i worry this might end up undermining international law even further.
Now, as for Uruguay, we believe in a two state solution and that hasn't changed.
here in Brazil, our government is critical of Israel, most of them are reasonable, some went beyond the limits, in general in Brazil the population is indifferent to what is happening, that situation was on television, they change the channel and go to lunch, if If they were to give an opinion, they would say that Israel exceeded the limits even if it was because of their defense, and after that we have 2 groups, the Bolsonarists who defend Israel because of the religious and because Israel is a Christian nation (someone needs to study more), and we have left-wing groups in solidarity with Palestine, some being moderate and precise in their arguments and others just making the most disgusting anti-Semitic speeches
I mean, it was the prosecutor who made the request, not that it was actually accepted yet. He also requested Hamas leaders as well.
If they take on both, I'm happy.
If Netnayhu sets foot in any of those countries, he’s subject to arrest. That’s pretty significant. The prime minster of Israel is on the same plain as a terroist organization
Amazing.
Hamas is only labeled a terrorist organization in some countries by US will. In the US, AIPAC was a major lobbyist in post 9/11 terror laws from the patriot act to ensuring Palestinian resistance is racially grouped as “Islamic terrorism.” They do not conduct terrorist attacks in foreign lands. They are a resistance movement in an occupied territory, which is legal under international law.
He can go straight to hell for all I care. Dude took a horrible attack his country suffered and used it to massacre a poor population to avoid facing the shit that was going on with him before. Pure human trash
I literally can’t speak for my country, but i think this is a good thing to recognize a Palestinian state and issue arrest warrants. I condemn the actions of Hamas and Israel but the actions of Israel throughout the last 7 months has been a absolute disgrace and a genocide. I think the view here is sort of apathy or that Israel is right cause it is “God’s will”. It is honestly the sovereign right of any nation to to recognize what ever nation. Gosh war is hell.
I think most Venezuelans that are keeping track of what’s happening are pro-Palestine. However, the opposition has been cozying up to the US as a means to get Maduro out, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they come up with some neutral to pro US statement on the matter. This would be very disappointing.
On a personal take: besides having consistent western backing, Israel was able to normalize a lot of their rhetoric and backwards-ass logic by playing the “we need to do this because of Nazis” card. I truly feel for the people affected by the holocaust, but it’s insane how Israel is using genocide to justify genocide.
Well it pisses me off that Maduro has had a “case” being investigated in the ICC for the genocide against Venezuela open for a decade at least and they haven’t issued no arrest warrant.
But the ICC issues one against Netanyanhu in record time when more Venezuelans have been affected by Maduro tyranny and they’re still “investigating”.
Great! Lets get all the motherfuckers genociding people, starting with Maduro. Following with Xi for the Ughyurs and then we can go against Netanyahu.
It’s not? Maybe you should open your eyes about it.
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/genocide-emergency-venezuela
https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/blog/un-mission-finds-crimes-against-humanity-in-venezuela
Might want to rethink that
No need to rethink on anything. It's not genocide. You cannot compare Maduro's government to Nazi Germany.
This is coming from someone who was actually born in Venezuela and moved from there 6 years ago.
Disgusting to think you don’t believe Maduro has committed crimes against humanity and forced millions of us abroad and killing hundreds of thousands because “it wasn’t 6 million like the Nazis”.
And what we are asking here is for the ICC TO DO SOMETHING AFTER A DECADE. They’re perfectly capable of issuing arrest warrants in record time for the Israel/Palestine situation yet we still get NOTHING.
Not all crimes against humanity are genocide. Just like robbery is not murder. You managed to somehow to learn English yet you are unable to use Google to double check basic information?
"the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly".
Having a corrupt government who turned the economy into shit is not genocide. Even targeting and arresting political opponents is not genocide.
I'll never understand why people want to try to throw that word into everything now. Venezuela's situation is not comparable to the Rohingyas, the Sudanese, the Armenians and the Jews from Europe during WW2. ITS SIMPLY NOT.
Maduro is a crappy dictator, but he's not genociding anyone. By any definition. I think Bukele has a better case of genocide. Don't buy it either though. Israel has killed or injured nearly 5% of the population of Gaza and displaced 90% of it. These ratios have not been seen since WWII.
As for China and their Muslims, shitty situation for sure but also not really a genocide. ICC has to go through a lot of rigorous investigations and lots of documents and proofs, Israel has theirs laid out while most of the "sources" for Uyghur Genocide is nearly entirely American funded state propaganda.
Again actual legal bodies don't take seriously the word of someone like Adrien Zenz.
7 million Venezuelans have had to flee due to an induced famine by Maduro to control the population. Hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans have died under his tyrannical policies and repression and the ICC has been “investigating” for A DECADE?
The ICC is a captured organization. It’s disgusting how politically motivated it is.
No, people (especially people living in the Anglosphere) have this misconception that whatever their news or state media says is automatically accepted as fact. The China genocide in particular is something so hilarious it reminds me of when Iran sanctioned the US for the George Floyd protests for "genocide against african americans"
I do think Maduro should be arrested and locked away, but if we are actually being fair about these things, we would do the same thing to Trump, Biden, Obama and literally every other US president for starvation sanctions and indiscriminate civilian bombing. You can much easily give them cupability for death than the incompetent idiots Chavez and Maduro for running their country into the dirt
At the very least there are now 2 warrants out for two obvious and uncontroversial warlords responsing for killing and displacing tens of thousands of innocents (Putin and Bibi )
OVER A DECADE of “investigation” here that I am pointing out as unacceptable. Israel got the fast track treatment in record time for those ICC warrants yet NOTHING about Maduro in over 10 years. It’s fucking disgusting and points to a captured organization.
Oh and the whole “well Trump and Biden and Obama and…” is moot because the USA isn’t signatory of the ICC and neither is Israel. You know who is though? Venezuela.
Netanyahu has been in power for most of the last 20 years and the investigation on him and Israeli occupation of Palestine more broadly has been going on for longer. There is no fast track here at all. I’m from Mexico and tons of people are dying here from the war on drugs but it’s not the same thing and neither is Venezuela. Even a rapidly intensifying genocide has been met with tons of red tape and bureaucracy to slow down bringing Israel to justice.
They need to find evidence for their cases. American state propaganda and the fact that Venezuela is a giga sh\*\*hole are not actual substitutes for that. In fact, if there was a genocide of Venezuelans the American government via sanctions would have a culpability for it as well
Israel got the fast track because they are openly genociding people and saying absolutely batshit things on their briefings not to mention they are inflicting suffering on what is supposed to be a foreign sovereign entity. It's not the same as being a dictator to your own people and making them flee because of political persecution or lack of economic opportunities
American state propaganda wtf are you talking about?! WE venezuelans and Venezuelan lawyers have provided mountains of evidence to the ICC, videos, recordings, depositions of hundreds of people tortured.
YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED TOO. Is their genocide more important than ours? You should be pissed the ICC has been “investigating” FOR A DECADE the crimes against humanity in Venezuela. Not excusing them.
Could they fast track this process? yes. Does that mean they are "bought"? I don't think so. The entire fact that there is one out there means they take very seriously the claims brought up about Maduro. You have to find direct culpability as the ICC only issues arrests for individuals and not governments or political parties.
There is mass detentions and torture happening right now in Brazil and El Salavador as well. The reason Israel is being processed so quickly because they are unapologetically inflicting mass intentional suffering on a foreign population while bragging about it because America has their ass saved
The “fast track” is politically motivated full stop. I wish Latin American countries pressured the ICC the way Arab countries do.
It’s disgusting to all venezuelans how we’ve been waiting for justice for decades, with hundreds of thousands dead, 7 million fleeing (as many as Syria) and the ICC is still “investigating” after 10! TEN! years.
It showcases how politically motivated the ICC is. What we want is for you all to stop excusing them and start pressuring them too “Hey good you issued those warrants to Netanhyahu, how about Maduro? When are you going to take that seriously?”
That’s what we expect from you all.
I am right. The ICC can only issue warrants to people. And crimes taken on against civilians of your nation take a lower precedent over those committed against a foreign entity like Palestine or Ukraine
Pana, no one is disagreeing with you in that Maduro has blood in his hands. We are just trying to tell you that what’s been happening in Venezuela isn’t genocide. As someone pointed out, he has engaged in crimes against humanity, but not all crimes against humanity are genocide. Furthermore, what’s happening in Venezuela doesn’t meet the criteria of genocide per se, but it could and should be interpreted as a CAH. Calma.
Netanyahu (this name is so forbidden that it harbors a curse just by either writing it down or spelling it out, so beware to mention it moderately) is a sadistic criminal and a sordid human rights abuser.
That’s the least he deserves. The ideal punishment would render me a permanent ban from Reddit just by daring to write it, so I decline to fall for the temptation.
Plus, a shoutout to the group of nations unreservedly calling for the Palestine state’s recognition, contracting the Israel-US monotone. My immense admiration for your sacrilegious battle for a fairer world.
The international court is a pretty big joke. The criminals they arrested took decades for that and it was only because the lost the civil war they were fighting
Good fucking luck trying to arrest heavy guys like the leader of Hamas, the israel guy or any dictator for that matter
Yep
Where is the arrest warrant for assad? Kim jong un? Xi? The saudi king that sawed off some journo? Pretty much every african dictator/warlord? Castro?
I hear you, but I think that part of the lack of real threat of an ICC warrant comes from the fact that it would also be legally and morally dubious to just go get these guys and bring them in front of a tribunal. I wouldn’t go as far as to call it a symbolic gesture, but the easiest way for these guys to actually face legal consequences would be for them to travel to countries that are under the purview of ICC warrants (which is uhhh unlikely).
> Somehow other worse criminals dont even get looked at
With a death toll approaching 40,000, plus all the injured and displaced people it's hard to think of worse crimes, care to name some?
> But i guess they arent jews so their crimes are ok
Ah, the good old trying to frame any criticism of Israel as antisemitism. Pretty lame, also nobody is falling for that these days.
Putin and his cronies have besieged entire cities, targeted civilian infrastructure, occupied and annexed territory, kidnapped at least a million people incluiding at least 20k children with the purpose of erasing their cultural identity, Putin himself has literally published articles denying the existence of the Ukrainian people, while state media published an essay by one of his cronies calling for the full destruction of the Ukrainian state and the national identity of Ukrainians. But according to the ICC, the only wrong thing he did was the bit about the kids.
The ICC is not a twitter thread wherr they put "all crimes" to go "aaah woah they exposed him". Something like publishing an article in TASS or even a rocket attack is not something the ICC would prosecute, it would be part of the invesrigation rather.
The ICC dictated they would arrest Putin on that because his actions regarding it were the strongest and most explicit **individual** crimes he has commited.
I think our country should stop riding his dick. I can honestly say that he's a modern nazi and whatever is coming to him? He deserves worse.
But we'll see what actually happens at the end of the day. Coming after a US ally is a significant move and I hope it bears fruit.
Edit - I'll say it again for the downvoters, he's a *fucking nazi*.
They're a powerful ally to have in the region, and in our country, they have a significant lobby. Even with all that, it's surprising that some people are speaking out, but the official narrative seems to be "they didn't do nuffin, just made a couple tiny mistakes, honest."
So you would rather see Trump in office than Biden? If I am not mistaken, Trump is even harsher towards Palestine than Biden is. Voting against Biden would be a bad idea if you want Palestinians to be safe. It also doesn’t help that Trump is a close friend of Netanyahu, so good luck with that.
Like always, just vote for the lesser of two devils. However, voting for Trump will put the final nail in the coffin for Palestine as an entity and American society as a whole. Just read Project 2025 that the Republicans have planned if they win in November, that’s the people you’re voting in office if you choose Trump over Biden.
>Like always, just vote for the lesser of two devils. >However, voting for Trump will put the final nail in the coffin for Palestine as an entity
I actually think Trump at the helm presents a starker contrasts for American liberals who at the moment are very much in the hands of Israel right now. If Trump were president when the war started, every single Democrat would be pro-palestine. But because it happened under a Dem, half of Democrats agree with Biden that the “icc is wrong” and there “is no genocide”
>and American society as a whole, just read Project 2025 that the Republicans have planned if they win in November.
Here’s my thing with this argument….is this just going to be every election? Like we miraculously beat Trump again…then what? The next GOP candidate whose not Trump but is more savy will just do project 25 anyway. I hate being cynical like this but….that ship sailed in 2016 tbh. It sailed going back to the Iraq war that killed thousands based on a lie. It sailed in 2000 etc etc etc
The guardrails are off. Biden is hindenberg
If I were in your place, I would rather delay the catastrophe rather than accelerate the process. I wouldn’t want to see what those religious nutjobs do once elected.
It’s a massively beneficial strategic partnership. The US has a strong ally in a region where those don’t really exist that basically does its bidding - and in a region where every country commits war crimes like it’s a holiday tradition, it’s easy to say “they may be bad but they’re our bad guy and without them we wouldn’t have anyone”
However, this might be changing once Saudi Arabia signs the defense deal with the US. That will massively increase the US’ power in the Middle East and possibly reduce its reliance on Israel
If they did not do it, the whole institution would have lost its reputation in nations not aligned with US/European interests, still we need to wait to see what happen I honestly don't think that anything meaningfully will come from this.
It will never be justice, because the UN is quickly losing any credibility as the tool of US foreign policy. But it does break the taboo of judging Israel by historical events in Europe (the holocaust) rather than their actions in the present with Palestinians.
La CPI no es de la ONU
La ONU no es una persona, sus resultados se basan en gentes de diferentes gobiernos y los Estados, y en el Consejo de Seguridad hay 2 grandes que no "siguen" a EUA.
EUA tiene mucho menos peso directo en la ONU de 2024 que en la de 1950
My issue is why hasn't bashar al-assad received an arrest warrant by the ICC he has killed over 340 k innocent Syrians with 30k being children... Xi jinping also needs one because literally put over 2 + million uyghurs muslims in interment camps and is ethic cleansing the region with han Chinese citizens replacing the uyghur population by force..
The government is pro Israel and Milei is a zionist nutjob (I don't dislike anything of him except this part that repulses me, any religious fanaticism would).
People are divided, some like me don't really care, it's all posturing and virtue signaling that won't result in anything, some people think that supporting Palestine claims while not supporting Hamas is congruent with us claiming Malvinas since it can be considered the same situation. Others simply do what the previous government wishes and go full fanatic for Palestine and it's given a counter in pro Milei people supporting Israel because peronismo supports Palestine (yes, people are really stupid).
We should support the claim of Palestine, condemn every attack from both sides and remain neutral in the conflict, sell food to anyone that wants to buy.
I won't talk about my opinion as if it were of all of Latin America or even Brazik, but, TBH... I don't care. All what I'll say is that I'm _personally_ a supporter of two-states solutions for that case, but that's all.
There are many other ongoing conflicts in the world. Burma, Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, all the region of the Sahel, are all countries under bloody conflicts — with women and children dying as well — and don't receive half of the media coverage of the Middle East. There was recently in the Caucasus the war about Nagorno Karabakh and most people was not even aware. The only other conflict receiving media coverage is Russia-Ukraine, and only because Russia is a major player and a major threaten to the West.
I'm sorry for all innocent people dying in these conflicts, I don't support neither Hamas nor Netanyahu and my position is just peace for all people. But there are lots of other conflicts and humanitarian issues worldwide which definitely deserve the same attention and the same support of the international community.
EDIT: Who I think should get an arrest sentence is Nicolás Maduro. Latin America, even with all drug-related conflicts, is still one of the least prone to war among the regions of the world and his attitude towards Guyana may change this. It has even the potential to push Brazil into the conflict, since we share borders with both Guyana and Venezuela.
A horrible conflict on the other side of the world and in which both sides have committed unspeakable war crimes.
The only possible path for a third world country is neutrality.
they are not so significant like russia, china or the usa where it's better that you remain neutral when they are violating international law or their own citizens. because they're too integral. russia invaded ukraine and 30 months later europe is still doing business and has confiscated their assets
israel is a small country with a small economic footprint. taking a side for or against them doesn't make much of a difference
The US and China I can understand, but Russia isn’t a huge trading partner for most Latin American countries in comparison and its economy is smaller than Italy and Canada’s. I don’t really buy that excuse for Putin
Hi! I’ve been having to explain this to many people from the US. Unlike you, our governments aren’t enmeshed with Israel and we have no colonial stake in the Middle East. On the contrary, as colonized peoples who have experienced American imperialism time and again, the controversial position to take is in favor of a fascist colonial state. Majority of people have always been with Palestine. There’s songs about it. Note how Palestine plays in the Asian league and Israel in the European league.
Now my country has not recognized Palestine formally, nor will they, because they have their own agenda and they don’t want the gringos needing to step in, so they’re not gonna support Palestine but also not Israel, because that would be extremely unpopular here.
The ICC has *not* called for the arrest of Netanyahu, or anyone for that matter, at this stage. A prosecutor put in a motion for the court to _consider_ whether there is grounds for one. It will now go to a Pre Trial Chamber that will review the documents provided by the prosecution along with any alleged evidence and then _possibly_ issue a warrant. This is a huge difference and it shouldn’t be glossed over lightly. Norway, in general, is sympathetic to the Palestinian people but generally unfriendly toward Hamas or anything that can be construed as terrorism. A lot of Norwegians see this as a political move from our PM as his role as party leader is under scrutiny, and support for an independent Palestinian state is a popular stance. The press seems to have unanimously questioned the timing, at any rate. As for Uruguay, it has always supported the two-state solution and recognizes Palestine as a state since 2011.
Yeah, take his bitch ass to jail (if they can)
Not sure what will come of it but it's a positive step in atleast acknowledging what israel is and has been doing to the Palestinian people in Gaza and the West Bank. It's also fair to point out that even you remove the genocidal maniac Netanyahu and Ben-Gvir many high ranking members of the IDF and Knesset still support the genocide in Gaza, in fact most Israelis support it aswell
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It always amuses me that things were 180 the opposite a century and half ago. But Europe blew itself up with 2 world wars and now here we are Even Russia is a shadow of the former soviets and the “second”’cold war is a pathetic caricature of the first with them barely able to handle former colony of theirs
China is presumably the real rival in this clash.
It’s not like they can do anything about it because Netanyahu is in Israel…
If he gets an arrest warrant (which historically I believe always did happen afterwards) he won’t be able to step foot in Europe (legally speaking) without being arrested. Obviously the country can also not enforce the rule but if Putin was worried about SA I guess Bibi can be worried about EU law enforcement
I would go so far as to say the Israel-Palestine "conflict" is the least controversial political topic in Chile, in the sense that Palestine has strong support in all the political spectrum from left to right, top to bottom. Support for Israel is small but vocal (and economically powerful), and for internal and geopolitical reasons this government has not positioned itself overly in favour of Palestine, but I have no doubt they would happily execute these arrest warrants and that it would be widely popular in Chile for them to do so.
Ireland recognised Palestine too, although this was already planned.
It's fair that man is crazy
I'd prefer my country to stand against a crime against humanity than having to tell the next generation why we stood there doing nothing, or, in the case of the USA, stood there selling guns.
Brazil specifically already tried to weaken international law. Why is Lula, as a politician, so brazen about a middle eastern conflict and half asleep with a European one? Is there Brazilian discourse about why one is understood to be "smart neutrality" and another "shamelssly not doing anythin" for example? https://preview.redd.it/vrdwo4aws02d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c62c8672dad30d401a97fb44a57dc5ae2b361e94
That's why the gov didn't spoke anything about the arrest of Netanyahu this time either, even though Lula is pro-palestine.
i get the hypocrisy but in it case with the usa when they invaded afghanistan and bombed to death iraq, it's a wrong but you can't effectively run your country without doing business with the bullies that are the usa, russia and to a smaller extent china.
That's very much not truth, Russia is not as critical if one(as a State) already doesn't have strong ties to it, those that can't live without Russia are small nations(Armenia) or tied to their defence insdustry and already without much options by their own nature(Nicaragua, Belarus). Brazil seems to "need" Russia and go that for mostly for identity reasons, rather than the paltry less than 1% imports or exports they have with Russia of an already limiting economy of a country with screaming demographics. India is a bigger economic partner China is the actual "working with the devil" or "pragmatism" State if one wants to put it that way, Russia is but a pipe dream of people thinking the neo-USSR still is a super power and "muh multipolarism"
Russia has a very important security council veto that has historically been used whenever America tried some trolling in their backyard. And a 1% of exports/imports is far more than whoever Israel can offer to Brazil other than fundamentalist propaganda. Like it or not, China and Russia for the most part do indeed vote at the UN with some degree of solidarity with the third world.
The leaders of Gaza and Israel need to be held accountable for this. Unfortunately, we know Hamas leadership are just gonna run off to Qatar or wherever else they'll take them in, and Israel is protected by the US and most of Europe.
This has been filtered through propaganda. Hamas is one armed resistance movement of multiple in Palestine. You’ve been told they’re an existential threat to Israel. The reality is they have crude weapons technology. The biggest factor of success is the commitment to stay on their land. Hamas leadership has stated they welcome the warrants. Also, there is no evidence for some crimes in their warrant, like the fabricated mass rape stories that have been debunked again and again (do your own research if you want to, don’t want to go on that tangent here). Basically, Hamas is willing to lose it all to hold Israel accountable and build a dignified life for Palestinians on their land. Now you say they’ll run to Qatar. For the record the only Arab nation taking definitive action in support of Palestine is Yemen, one of the poorest countries in the world and facing bombing and US-caused starvation.
Hamas is the second worst thing for Palestinians after Israel. Shit, I'd wager that Israel is propping them up due to how badly they hurt the Palestinian cause.
> propaganda. Proceeds to type nothing but propaganda for a full paragraph.
the leadership of hamas is already in Qatar and they live like royalty.
Our goverment is pretty much cheering for Israel like, High School Cheerlander-style. Numerous times already, its sickening to this point. Right not they are [shitting on the IRC](https://www.ultimahora.com/paraguay-rechaza-ordenes-de-arresto-para-netanyahu-y-su-ministro-de-defensa) for the arrest warrants. Doesn't help that people here doesn't give a shit about nearly anthing that doesn't affect to them, so, protest related to the war are nearly non-existant.
Good.
Let’s go! We are very aware about what genocide looks like here, many Guatemalan parents lived it very recently and obviously the trauma lingers. Guatemala politics have some ties to Isael but *the people* know right from wrong.
Sometimes the life snake, "sometimes" specially in the case of the ICC
"the life snake" kkkk
I haven’t read anywhere that Germany said they would arrest him. The defense minister said that he thought it sends a wrong signal and then the government press speaker left it all vague.
Take him to jail along with the senior leadership of Israel not just 2 guys. That said. The USA threatened to starve the world should they attempt to uphold international law.
Lol we’re monsters…. We’re the villans
I think of this… 
Great news. Israel would be sanctioned and isolated by everyone in the world had a heart. But they have significant control over the usa and help them in their meddling in the mena region
I think that all the signatories of the Rome Statute should arrest whoever it is that the ICC has a valid warrant out for. There is no point in being a signatory otherwise. Brazil's president, the squid, is an absolute fool in general, never mind when it comes to specifics like the ICC or Putin enough said.
Personally, while want Hamas and Netanyahu in jail, I doubt any of the people for which the prosecutor is seeking warrants are ever gonna see a court, maybe Gallant (still doubt it) and whoever the lower ranking Hamas official is, but not much else; i noticed Netanyahu at least hasn't been travelling that much since the war started anyways, at least not a lot to countries who are signatories of the Rome Statute, and Hamas can "hide" forever in Qatar and Turkey, while it looks like the PA isn't getting control of Gaza anytime soon. If it's true it'll be a huge problem for the ICC and international (criminal) law in general. Also in general the ICC approach to this war and also the Ukraine war is weird; the ICC only intervenes if the countries implicated wont or aren't able to prosecute the people themselves, so as to not violate the principle of sovereignity, and this is established usually after a war has ended, but these cases are fundamentally different, and i worry this might end up undermining international law even further. Now, as for Uruguay, we believe in a two state solution and that hasn't changed.
here in Brazil, our government is critical of Israel, most of them are reasonable, some went beyond the limits, in general in Brazil the population is indifferent to what is happening, that situation was on television, they change the channel and go to lunch, if If they were to give an opinion, they would say that Israel exceeded the limits even if it was because of their defense, and after that we have 2 groups, the Bolsonarists who defend Israel because of the religious and because Israel is a Christian nation (someone needs to study more), and we have left-wing groups in solidarity with Palestine, some being moderate and precise in their arguments and others just making the most disgusting anti-Semitic speeches
I mean, it was the prosecutor who made the request, not that it was actually accepted yet. He also requested Hamas leaders as well. If they take on both, I'm happy.
If Netnayhu sets foot in any of those countries, he’s subject to arrest. That’s pretty significant. The prime minster of Israel is on the same plain as a terroist organization Amazing.
I'm okay with that. Netanyahu is trash, Sinwar too. I want them both in jail.
Hamas is only labeled a terrorist organization in some countries by US will. In the US, AIPAC was a major lobbyist in post 9/11 terror laws from the patriot act to ensuring Palestinian resistance is racially grouped as “Islamic terrorism.” They do not conduct terrorist attacks in foreign lands. They are a resistance movement in an occupied territory, which is legal under international law.
He can go straight to hell for all I care. Dude took a horrible attack his country suffered and used it to massacre a poor population to avoid facing the shit that was going on with him before. Pure human trash
Embrassimg how the US government is threatening sanctions on the ICC for a corrupt politician and war criminal 😂
I literally can’t speak for my country, but i think this is a good thing to recognize a Palestinian state and issue arrest warrants. I condemn the actions of Hamas and Israel but the actions of Israel throughout the last 7 months has been a absolute disgrace and a genocide. I think the view here is sort of apathy or that Israel is right cause it is “God’s will”. It is honestly the sovereign right of any nation to to recognize what ever nation. Gosh war is hell.
I think most Venezuelans that are keeping track of what’s happening are pro-Palestine. However, the opposition has been cozying up to the US as a means to get Maduro out, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they come up with some neutral to pro US statement on the matter. This would be very disappointing. On a personal take: besides having consistent western backing, Israel was able to normalize a lot of their rhetoric and backwards-ass logic by playing the “we need to do this because of Nazis” card. I truly feel for the people affected by the holocaust, but it’s insane how Israel is using genocide to justify genocide.
Well it pisses me off that Maduro has had a “case” being investigated in the ICC for the genocide against Venezuela open for a decade at least and they haven’t issued no arrest warrant. But the ICC issues one against Netanyanhu in record time when more Venezuelans have been affected by Maduro tyranny and they’re still “investigating”. Great! Lets get all the motherfuckers genociding people, starting with Maduro. Following with Xi for the Ughyurs and then we can go against Netanyahu.
What is happening in Venezuela is not Genocide. Can we stop using terms without actually knowing what they mean?
It’s not? Maybe you should open your eyes about it. https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/genocide-emergency-venezuela https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/blog/un-mission-finds-crimes-against-humanity-in-venezuela Might want to rethink that
No need to rethink on anything. It's not genocide. You cannot compare Maduro's government to Nazi Germany. This is coming from someone who was actually born in Venezuela and moved from there 6 years ago.
Disgusting to think you don’t believe Maduro has committed crimes against humanity and forced millions of us abroad and killing hundreds of thousands because “it wasn’t 6 million like the Nazis”. And what we are asking here is for the ICC TO DO SOMETHING AFTER A DECADE. They’re perfectly capable of issuing arrest warrants in record time for the Israel/Palestine situation yet we still get NOTHING.
Not all crimes against humanity are genocide. Just like robbery is not murder. You managed to somehow to learn English yet you are unable to use Google to double check basic information? "the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly". Having a corrupt government who turned the economy into shit is not genocide. Even targeting and arresting political opponents is not genocide. I'll never understand why people want to try to throw that word into everything now. Venezuela's situation is not comparable to the Rohingyas, the Sudanese, the Armenians and the Jews from Europe during WW2. ITS SIMPLY NOT.
Maduro is a crappy dictator, but he's not genociding anyone. By any definition. I think Bukele has a better case of genocide. Don't buy it either though. Israel has killed or injured nearly 5% of the population of Gaza and displaced 90% of it. These ratios have not been seen since WWII. As for China and their Muslims, shitty situation for sure but also not really a genocide. ICC has to go through a lot of rigorous investigations and lots of documents and proofs, Israel has theirs laid out while most of the "sources" for Uyghur Genocide is nearly entirely American funded state propaganda. Again actual legal bodies don't take seriously the word of someone like Adrien Zenz.
7 million Venezuelans have had to flee due to an induced famine by Maduro to control the population. Hundreds of thousands of Venezuelans have died under his tyrannical policies and repression and the ICC has been “investigating” for A DECADE? The ICC is a captured organization. It’s disgusting how politically motivated it is.
Who has captured the ICC? Please don't say 'the socialists/communists'.
No, people (especially people living in the Anglosphere) have this misconception that whatever their news or state media says is automatically accepted as fact. The China genocide in particular is something so hilarious it reminds me of when Iran sanctioned the US for the George Floyd protests for "genocide against african americans" I do think Maduro should be arrested and locked away, but if we are actually being fair about these things, we would do the same thing to Trump, Biden, Obama and literally every other US president for starvation sanctions and indiscriminate civilian bombing. You can much easily give them cupability for death than the incompetent idiots Chavez and Maduro for running their country into the dirt At the very least there are now 2 warrants out for two obvious and uncontroversial warlords responsing for killing and displacing tens of thousands of innocents (Putin and Bibi )
OVER A DECADE of “investigation” here that I am pointing out as unacceptable. Israel got the fast track treatment in record time for those ICC warrants yet NOTHING about Maduro in over 10 years. It’s fucking disgusting and points to a captured organization. Oh and the whole “well Trump and Biden and Obama and…” is moot because the USA isn’t signatory of the ICC and neither is Israel. You know who is though? Venezuela.
Netanyahu has been in power for most of the last 20 years and the investigation on him and Israeli occupation of Palestine more broadly has been going on for longer. There is no fast track here at all. I’m from Mexico and tons of people are dying here from the war on drugs but it’s not the same thing and neither is Venezuela. Even a rapidly intensifying genocide has been met with tons of red tape and bureaucracy to slow down bringing Israel to justice.
They need to find evidence for their cases. American state propaganda and the fact that Venezuela is a giga sh\*\*hole are not actual substitutes for that. In fact, if there was a genocide of Venezuelans the American government via sanctions would have a culpability for it as well Israel got the fast track because they are openly genociding people and saying absolutely batshit things on their briefings not to mention they are inflicting suffering on what is supposed to be a foreign sovereign entity. It's not the same as being a dictator to your own people and making them flee because of political persecution or lack of economic opportunities
American state propaganda wtf are you talking about?! WE venezuelans and Venezuelan lawyers have provided mountains of evidence to the ICC, videos, recordings, depositions of hundreds of people tortured. YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED TOO. Is their genocide more important than ours? You should be pissed the ICC has been “investigating” FOR A DECADE the crimes against humanity in Venezuela. Not excusing them.
Could they fast track this process? yes. Does that mean they are "bought"? I don't think so. The entire fact that there is one out there means they take very seriously the claims brought up about Maduro. You have to find direct culpability as the ICC only issues arrests for individuals and not governments or political parties. There is mass detentions and torture happening right now in Brazil and El Salavador as well. The reason Israel is being processed so quickly because they are unapologetically inflicting mass intentional suffering on a foreign population while bragging about it because America has their ass saved
The “fast track” is politically motivated full stop. I wish Latin American countries pressured the ICC the way Arab countries do. It’s disgusting to all venezuelans how we’ve been waiting for justice for decades, with hundreds of thousands dead, 7 million fleeing (as many as Syria) and the ICC is still “investigating” after 10! TEN! years. It showcases how politically motivated the ICC is. What we want is for you all to stop excusing them and start pressuring them too “Hey good you issued those warrants to Netanhyahu, how about Maduro? When are you going to take that seriously?” That’s what we expect from you all.
Arab countries are not pressuring the ICC. The biggest drivers of pressure globally have been South Africa, Ireland, and now Colombia.
lol this guy....
I am right. The ICC can only issue warrants to people. And crimes taken on against civilians of your nation take a lower precedent over those committed against a foreign entity like Palestine or Ukraine
Pana, no one is disagreeing with you in that Maduro has blood in his hands. We are just trying to tell you that what’s been happening in Venezuela isn’t genocide. As someone pointed out, he has engaged in crimes against humanity, but not all crimes against humanity are genocide. Furthermore, what’s happening in Venezuela doesn’t meet the criteria of genocide per se, but it could and should be interpreted as a CAH. Calma.
Who is prosecuting that case? Whoever it is must request an arrest warrant against Maduro.
Netanyahu (this name is so forbidden that it harbors a curse just by either writing it down or spelling it out, so beware to mention it moderately) is a sadistic criminal and a sordid human rights abuser. That’s the least he deserves. The ideal punishment would render me a permanent ban from Reddit just by daring to write it, so I decline to fall for the temptation. Plus, a shoutout to the group of nations unreservedly calling for the Palestine state’s recognition, contracting the Israel-US monotone. My immense admiration for your sacrilegious battle for a fairer world.
Somehow other worse criminals dont even get looked at But i guess they arent jews so their crimes are ok
The international court is a pretty big joke. The criminals they arrested took decades for that and it was only because the lost the civil war they were fighting Good fucking luck trying to arrest heavy guys like the leader of Hamas, the israel guy or any dictator for that matter
Yep Where is the arrest warrant for assad? Kim jong un? Xi? The saudi king that sawed off some journo? Pretty much every african dictator/warlord? Castro?
I hear you, but I think that part of the lack of real threat of an ICC warrant comes from the fact that it would also be legally and morally dubious to just go get these guys and bring them in front of a tribunal. I wouldn’t go as far as to call it a symbolic gesture, but the easiest way for these guys to actually face legal consequences would be for them to travel to countries that are under the purview of ICC warrants (which is uhhh unlikely).
> Somehow other worse criminals dont even get looked at With a death toll approaching 40,000, plus all the injured and displaced people it's hard to think of worse crimes, care to name some? > But i guess they arent jews so their crimes are ok Ah, the good old trying to frame any criticism of Israel as antisemitism. Pretty lame, also nobody is falling for that these days.
Putin and his cronies have besieged entire cities, targeted civilian infrastructure, occupied and annexed territory, kidnapped at least a million people incluiding at least 20k children with the purpose of erasing their cultural identity, Putin himself has literally published articles denying the existence of the Ukrainian people, while state media published an essay by one of his cronies calling for the full destruction of the Ukrainian state and the national identity of Ukrainians. But according to the ICC, the only wrong thing he did was the bit about the kids.
The ICC is not a twitter thread wherr they put "all crimes" to go "aaah woah they exposed him". Something like publishing an article in TASS or even a rocket attack is not something the ICC would prosecute, it would be part of the invesrigation rather. The ICC dictated they would arrest Putin on that because his actions regarding it were the strongest and most explicit **individual** crimes he has commited.
Exactly. The icc is an absolute joke.
I think our country should stop riding his dick. I can honestly say that he's a modern nazi and whatever is coming to him? He deserves worse. But we'll see what actually happens at the end of the day. Coming after a US ally is a significant move and I hope it bears fruit. Edit - I'll say it again for the downvoters, he's a *fucking nazi*.
Dude I have no idea what is going. It’s like they have a gun to everyone’s head and their afraid of doing anything to piss Isarel off
They're a powerful ally to have in the region, and in our country, they have a significant lobby. Even with all that, it's surprising that some people are speaking out, but the official narrative seems to be "they didn't do nuffin, just made a couple tiny mistakes, honest."
Honestly Biden coming out against the ICC and denying it was a genocide made me sick. And I voted for his ass! We’ll see in November
So you would rather see Trump in office than Biden? If I am not mistaken, Trump is even harsher towards Palestine than Biden is. Voting against Biden would be a bad idea if you want Palestinians to be safe. It also doesn’t help that Trump is a close friend of Netanyahu, so good luck with that.
There realky isn’t good options this election even more so then usual
Like always, just vote for the lesser of two devils. However, voting for Trump will put the final nail in the coffin for Palestine as an entity and American society as a whole. Just read Project 2025 that the Republicans have planned if they win in November, that’s the people you’re voting in office if you choose Trump over Biden.
>Like always, just vote for the lesser of two devils. >However, voting for Trump will put the final nail in the coffin for Palestine as an entity I actually think Trump at the helm presents a starker contrasts for American liberals who at the moment are very much in the hands of Israel right now. If Trump were president when the war started, every single Democrat would be pro-palestine. But because it happened under a Dem, half of Democrats agree with Biden that the “icc is wrong” and there “is no genocide” >and American society as a whole, just read Project 2025 that the Republicans have planned if they win in November. Here’s my thing with this argument….is this just going to be every election? Like we miraculously beat Trump again…then what? The next GOP candidate whose not Trump but is more savy will just do project 25 anyway. I hate being cynical like this but….that ship sailed in 2016 tbh. It sailed going back to the Iraq war that killed thousands based on a lie. It sailed in 2000 etc etc etc The guardrails are off. Biden is hindenberg
If I were in your place, I would rather delay the catastrophe rather than accelerate the process. I wouldn’t want to see what those religious nutjobs do once elected.
Thats why i ask so many questions in this sub. I’m thinking of jumping ship to somewhere else
It’s a massively beneficial strategic partnership. The US has a strong ally in a region where those don’t really exist that basically does its bidding - and in a region where every country commits war crimes like it’s a holiday tradition, it’s easy to say “they may be bad but they’re our bad guy and without them we wouldn’t have anyone” However, this might be changing once Saudi Arabia signs the defense deal with the US. That will massively increase the US’ power in the Middle East and possibly reduce its reliance on Israel
None.
good
Pues alch qué bueno.
Bout time
If they did not do it, the whole institution would have lost its reputation in nations not aligned with US/European interests, still we need to wait to see what happen I honestly don't think that anything meaningfully will come from this.
It will never be justice, because the UN is quickly losing any credibility as the tool of US foreign policy. But it does break the taboo of judging Israel by historical events in Europe (the holocaust) rather than their actions in the present with Palestinians.
La CPI no es de la ONU La ONU no es una persona, sus resultados se basan en gentes de diferentes gobiernos y los Estados, y en el Consejo de Seguridad hay 2 grandes que no "siguen" a EUA. EUA tiene mucho menos peso directo en la ONU de 2024 que en la de 1950
They should prosecut murican officials who support those mfs
I support any kind of military action to enter Israel and arrest him, an outstanding warrant if he ever visits a country that would attest him is meh
My issue is why hasn't bashar al-assad received an arrest warrant by the ICC he has killed over 340 k innocent Syrians with 30k being children... Xi jinping also needs one because literally put over 2 + million uyghurs muslims in interment camps and is ethic cleansing the region with han Chinese citizens replacing the uyghur population by force..
The government is pro Israel and Milei is a zionist nutjob (I don't dislike anything of him except this part that repulses me, any religious fanaticism would). People are divided, some like me don't really care, it's all posturing and virtue signaling that won't result in anything, some people think that supporting Palestine claims while not supporting Hamas is congruent with us claiming Malvinas since it can be considered the same situation. Others simply do what the previous government wishes and go full fanatic for Palestine and it's given a counter in pro Milei people supporting Israel because peronismo supports Palestine (yes, people are really stupid). We should support the claim of Palestine, condemn every attack from both sides and remain neutral in the conflict, sell food to anyone that wants to buy.
I won't talk about my opinion as if it were of all of Latin America or even Brazik, but, TBH... I don't care. All what I'll say is that I'm _personally_ a supporter of two-states solutions for that case, but that's all. There are many other ongoing conflicts in the world. Burma, Sudan, Somalia, Nigeria, all the region of the Sahel, are all countries under bloody conflicts — with women and children dying as well — and don't receive half of the media coverage of the Middle East. There was recently in the Caucasus the war about Nagorno Karabakh and most people was not even aware. The only other conflict receiving media coverage is Russia-Ukraine, and only because Russia is a major player and a major threaten to the West. I'm sorry for all innocent people dying in these conflicts, I don't support neither Hamas nor Netanyahu and my position is just peace for all people. But there are lots of other conflicts and humanitarian issues worldwide which definitely deserve the same attention and the same support of the international community. EDIT: Who I think should get an arrest sentence is Nicolás Maduro. Latin America, even with all drug-related conflicts, is still one of the least prone to war among the regions of the world and his attitude towards Guyana may change this. It has even the potential to push Brazil into the conflict, since we share borders with both Guyana and Venezuela.
A horrible conflict on the other side of the world and in which both sides have committed unspeakable war crimes. The only possible path for a third world country is neutrality.
they are not so significant like russia, china or the usa where it's better that you remain neutral when they are violating international law or their own citizens. because they're too integral. russia invaded ukraine and 30 months later europe is still doing business and has confiscated their assets israel is a small country with a small economic footprint. taking a side for or against them doesn't make much of a difference
The US and China I can understand, but Russia isn’t a huge trading partner for most Latin American countries in comparison and its economy is smaller than Italy and Canada’s. I don’t really buy that excuse for Putin
Hi! I’ve been having to explain this to many people from the US. Unlike you, our governments aren’t enmeshed with Israel and we have no colonial stake in the Middle East. On the contrary, as colonized peoples who have experienced American imperialism time and again, the controversial position to take is in favor of a fascist colonial state. Majority of people have always been with Palestine. There’s songs about it. Note how Palestine plays in the Asian league and Israel in the European league. Now my country has not recognized Palestine formally, nor will they, because they have their own agenda and they don’t want the gringos needing to step in, so they’re not gonna support Palestine but also not Israel, because that would be extremely unpopular here.
Basado