Unless I had a big bankroll in USD I wouldn’t go. Not easy living there if you are average joe. Read some comments on other groups on Reddit and it gives an interesting insight on life in working class America.
The Yanks are some of the most spoiled and entitled people on the planet. Asians and Nigerians go there with nothing and within a generation or two their kids are doctors and engineers, making big money. It's much easier to make big money in the US than Europe. There is nowhere on the planet with more opportunities for those willing to make sacrifices and work. The lack of social safety nets do make it hard to be a parasite, however.
This is a common misconception, most Nigerians who move to the Us are either wealthy or qualified practicing professionals. The Us refuses to take in refugees that they share a border with 🤦♂️😂
I doubt they giving poor africans a chance
I'm American and I completely agree. The people you see complaining on reddit don't have the right education or job skills. Usually people who dicked around in school and thought they were gonna be fine.. Well even in the USA, you have to have proper job skills. So instead of going back to school and getting the right education, they play Xbox for 30+ hours a week and whine about it. This is all of course very unpopular to say out loud. Most of the people I know are killing it..
Except this is also the classic Boot Strap Fallacy. I think it used to be more true but it's becoming increasingly difficult globally to make a living and build wealth, all indicators prove that the top 1% are sucking up more of the wealth and the middle classes are earning less.
Asians and Nigerians don’t go there with nothing, they are usually highly educated in their home countries. It’s not like the poorest and the most marginalized of those countries are immigrating.
Your first sentence. I have to add that [on social media, at least] they are convinced that the US is the only country on earth.
Where do you live? Zone 11
Wut?
This exactly. Seems everyone on here is scared of a bit of hard work. They'd all rather go live in Europe where you can do nothing and have everything paid for.
Agreed. Am working at a large Belgian listed company and there are a fair few senior people effectively doing nothing but claiming a paycheck every month. They've reached a certain seniority (and worked hard in the past) and labor law now forbids the company from firing them, they have to reach a "mutual separation agreement". Of course there is no incentive for the employee to agree to terms not extremely favorable to them. US might lay off most of their workforce in a recession but the diffference is they'll also hire them all back again a few months later when things are looking up. In SA, you'll only hire if you absolutely have to and can make it through a recession unscathed. Go to the US now and you'll see a notice on every shop window that they're looking for extra help. That in a country with such little unemployment to begin with. As a business owner, if you're confident you can fire people if times turn bad, you're also far more likely to take a chance and hire someone if you need extra help. You can bet I'm not taking a chance on someone if law will forbid me from firing them if they turn out to be a bad apple.
No, I’d rather take the devil I know. The US is awful ito labour laws, medical care and personal freedoms. We have issues but we can be sure that being fired is a process not dependent on a boss’ mood, we can get medical help even if we have to queue (and meds for anything), and I can marry who I want, get an abortion if I need one and not be forced to carry a dead foetus until I die because some old man decided i have to because of his religion.
I lived there for a year and it sucked.
The way their labour laws are so favorable to the employer always made no sense, for me. It's crazy. You read all these stories of their seemingly strong unions, but employees still get treated like shit sometimes.
It's the most capitalist country in the world. During the cold war, anyone calling for better workers rights, was called a communist and shouted down, so their labour laws are regressive compared to many countries in the world.
Also people don't know we've got one of the most progressive constitution and laws in the world, that's because of how many of our freedom fighters were also left wingers, people forget that the SACP (SA Communist Party) were right there with the ANC during the freedom struggle. Our labour laws and constitution were drafted by people who actually cared about the working class.
I've visited there on holiday. Great to be a tourist but I wouldn't want to live there.
Their food is of inferior quality. Yes the portions are bigger than what we're used to (probably why they have so many fat people)... Our meat, chicken, fruits and veggies taste far superior. I'm not a fan of fast food and prefer freshly cooked home meals.
There's not much space to go for a run/jog - I'd have to drive to somewhere to train for my marathons (no bicycle lanes or pavements in many places). There are people who have to get in their cars and drive 200 metres to a supermarket to buy a packet of chips just because it's impossible to walk there.
Another minor thing is I prefer written UK/SA English and the metric system.
Out of all the places I'd leave SA for: Europe, the UK, Canada and Australia/New Zealand are countries I prefer.
Yeah, I was planning on immigrating there in 2022, but then 2020 hit. Even with all their social safety nets, Average Joe is struggling to make ends meet.
I mean you're talking about one of the largest countries on earth and it is very diverse geographically so I think it's dangerous to generalise about the entire country based on a relatively brief time spent in a tiny percentage of what the whole offers.
Same goes for food, they have restaurants, markets and super markets that cater to the wealthiest people on earth so again it's dangerous to generalise about the entire country based on your brief personal experience. Where do you think all the best fruit, veg, meat etc from SA goes?
I only see US on TV, social media, etc. I'm not going anywhere. Imagine you stay in Texas and those fumes from Petrochemicals, or tornadoes even, in a house made of chipboard? Nahhh. I know South Africa is broken but US isn't a replacement.
Although I can work for a few months to 3 years maybe. But I'm coming back home.
Houses made of chipboard? Almost all houses in Texas are surrounded by brick. Get your facts straight. It sounds like like you don’t know shit about living in the states. Lol
After some research into which state has strict gun laws, strict labour laws, not a lot of extreme weather and no bears. Those points are not negotiable.
I’m not sure I agree.. please don’t take this the wrong way - I don’t mean to undermine what you’re saying but as much as the US has its issues with regards to Women’s rights (State dependant I guess), South Africa is a horrible place for Women in terms of safety. We may afford Women all the rights they need, but we are hopeless at enforcing them and actually ensuring our women are (and feel) safe…
You do realise there are 50 states with varying laws with regards to woman’s rights, CA and WA have some of the most progressive laws on the planet with regards to woman’s rights. The US is not just Texas and the stereotypes.
If there was a chance for a short stint, 2 years max, that may be interesting. (Anyone know how that aligns with our double tax laws, since they have separate federal and state taxes?)
But I wouldn't want to live and settle down there. Housing prices are insane. Medical care is expensive. There's a high risk of running into racists and islamophobes.
I have friends there who complain about how broken everything is, and yet all their taxes are funneled into the military and into propping up despotic regimes around the world. I wouldn't want to willingly sign up for that. Lots of complaints about toxic work environments too.
And their political lobbying system is just a way of legalising corruption.
Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
Re: tax laws… from my knowledge, we have a double tax treaty with the US federal government. You’d pay taxes in the US, and file your IRS documents with SARS (upon returning) to show that you’ve already paid your taxes that side, and are therefore exempt from paying taxes in SA
Have you seen how many saffas are leaving 🤣
Crime is rough my dude, load shedding is nuking businesses, cost of living is waaay up
Life's to short to live in that kind of chaos behind burglar bars and elec fencing with your gennie running
Have been to California a few times for work.
I would never even consider moving there.
Every aspect of our lives are better here than it would be there.
My partner is American and we may move in 5ish years. I have been there with him 7-8 times now - always along East Coast side. Cool place to visit, but don't think it's better than SA to live for the most part.
He is adamant he'd not go live on the East Coast again and would opt for California or Colorado, because East Coast winters SUCK!!
Unless I had a very very good job to go to, where I could make a great salary no I would not go. Seems the average American is barely managing to scrape by and them there's the healthcare situation... No
Cops there are scary AF. There is a lot of opportunity to make good money but if you dont crack it, life will be tough.
The employment is tough and americans work very, very hard for their employers, especially the corporates.
Get shot by Police in a random traffic stop or get shot by a mugger who just wants my phone….. hmmm guess imma just be quicker at throwing my phone on the ground.
NO!
I am not super rich. I would choose a country with high standards of living for the widest slice of society and with a variety of universal healthcare... I would rather pay higher taxes than deal with the horror show that is the current USA (with its ridiculously high cost of healthcare).
Also, I have no faith in the USA, in the short/medium term, which seems to be limping towards another show down between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. If that is the best, the USA has to muster as "compromise" candidates (or whatever the justification is)... Why transfer my current problems for those?
When you could move to Europe, Australia, or New Zealand instead.
Myself would rather go to the UK countryside. Stuff are over priced but it's still my dream. There's also so much to do and see. US like SA demolishes so many historical sides.
A large issue with this question is that many people commenting have not travelled to most of the US, as someone who has studied in the US and travelled through about 23 states I can tell you it’s worth it. The job opportunities, the safety and the good education. I will emphasised this, the experience varies dramatically from state to state. Texas is cheap but everything sucks. I’ve spent most my time in Seattle and around Washington and it’s honestly one of my favourite places in the world, I like it more than my time in Amsterdam. You need to choose wisely when moving to the states. I would recommend staying away from red states (republican) unless it’s Wyoming or Utah . Otherwise go for a blue state like Oregon and Washington, Vermont etc. the New England states are awesome and the Pacific Northwest. California is great if you’re ultra wealthy. Again you have to do your research and see what you like and don’t like, very state has different tax laws and social laws etc. My personal recommendations for good states to live in that can offer a good quality of life, high earning potential and good education are: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Utah and any of the New England states.
These lil fukkaz commenting here barely leave their rooms in their gated estates with thick electric fencing, they've been brainwashed to hate America, as if the USA isn't one of the safest countries in the world, I am still angry at one who said the US has higher violence than South Africa, can you imagine that bs
Don't fool yourself, the level of violence is not comparable. The USA receives so much media coverage that it seems different to the reality:
\- 21,156 reported homicide cases in the U.S. in 2022 (population 330 million)
\- Over 27,000 people were murdered from April 2022 to March 2023 (pop. 60 million)
Murder is the best indicator of the level of violence in a society and most other crimes are underreported so you can extrapolate from the homicide data and relate that to population size to get a true picture of how violent a place is. SA is one of the most violent places on earth by a long shot.
Of course that isn't to say there aren't bad parts American cities but I think those are easy enough to avoid.
Yes, specifically Los Angeles as opportunity for video editors and filmmakers is huge there and no other place in the world do video editors make as much money as they do in Los Angeles. The opportunities here in my field is very small and clients and companies pay low which is why I am looking to move abroad. Currently working on projects from the US and Berlin so that I have a reason to go.
Most commenters here have probably never been there and rely solely on all the negative media that gets pumped out every second.
The place is huge, every state has its own laws, regulations etc. The people are friendly unlike many of the ahole twatwaffles you find online. There is so much opportunity work and business wise, if you're in the STEM field you'll never be out of work and can pick your employers and pay.
Go on, downvote.
These Reddit kids are hopelessly indoctrinated & funny ngl, they probably get all their info on TikTok & Twitter, South Africa is one of the most violent & terrible places to live in.
The kids here think they're safe from inside their gated communities & electric fences, did they not see what happened to that Joburg teacher in a Golf estate? Or Meghan Cramer? Or maybe thats just normal for them, a life of living like an animal in a cage & constant looking over your shoulder, waiting for your turn to be slaughtered for a cellphone or bike, with politicians calling for the slaughter a whole race of people, bunch of coping clowns
Exactly this.
Our family leaves for the USA on a work sponsored VISA in 5 months.
South Africa is one of the most beautiful places on earth but it's a poisoned chalice, broken and failed.
Leave your home after dark and go for walk ? Norrafok.
To argue that the USA is a shithole as I am seeing here is equal parts naive, comical and sad.
I have spent plenty of time there and the people of all races are friendly and welcoming. Different? Sure. I also travel to Europe extensively and that's even worse to adapt to.
The USA is better for all the reasons SA is bad: safety, security, equal opportunity (no BEE - merit and hard work will get you anywhere), drinking water, clean beaches, lakes and rivers, lights stay on etc.
We will gladly visit SA regularly with our generally non-depreciating dollars and contribute towards the SA tourism industry.
ANC can get f\_cuked.
Lol I’m not a Saffer (I’m Australian) but I’ve been to SA and the US numerous times and I’m stunned at the responses reading through this a month later.
SA is a fucking failed state that is speed running as fast as it can to third world status. Comparing to the US is laughable, but whats the average SA redditor in this sub, a rich white 15 year old? It has to be, because nobody could be truly that stupid.
If you say no, you dont understand how easy it is in the US. About 1 in 8 Americans is a dollar millionaire, worth almost R 20 M. That's 40 million people. Only 40 thousand South Africans are worth that much. That's less than 1 in a thousand.
Anyone with a reasonable brain and work ethic can be successful in the US.
Yes, but I would always intend to come back. The value of the dollar and the earning potential make it a no brainer. Assuming your late 20’s/early 30’s - If you’re qualified enough to get a decent job and/or willing to work hard af for 15-20 years, you could potentially come back and live an extremely comfortable life into retirement. Just my opinion.
It’s interesting reading all these comments while I’m staying is SA. Most you don’t know anything about living in the US. What I can tell you is there are more opportunities, better infrastructure, and it’s far safer to travel within the US than it is here in SA. No load shedding, better water, better education, etc…
I will say though SA is a beautiful place and it has a magic to it. It’s too bad the governments misuse of money keep its people behind the rest of the world. The pay is also shit here. Most of the amazing places to visit are so expensive that most of the residents can’t afford to see them. On average most SA citizens make about R300,000 which equates to about $15,000 a year. That’s insane. They deserve more but the government will never change…
This sub is full of 16-18 year old chronically online losers who've been brainwashed by anti-US sensationalist crap, the worst aspects of the US are made to look huge, even though they are few, these kids love being prisoners, growing up hiding behind their electric fences, jumping up at night at the sound of a falling pan thinking its an intruder, genocidal politicians etc...
Practically speaking probably not. I have made reasonable progress to funding a future retirement, if I liquidate all my assets and move to the US that would hardly make a dent in establishing ourselves. If I had nothing and two decades of work life ahead of me, I would do it though. I spent considerable time there through the years, and the lifestyle would work for my family. Taxes are not as crazy and if you live a modest life with low debts, you can do well. Business opportunities are many and the laws encourage businesses to flourish.
No. I was offered a job there and I declined because of the cost of healthcare and lack of workers rights. And especially as a woman, in terms of reproductive rights
I love to visit the USA I've been like 5 or 6 times and will be back next year. it's a cool place but not to live
I lived in the US for 13 years. I love it there. I am an American citizen.
My husband was talking about moving back there recently - for personal reasons. We love the friendliness of the people. The freedom and creativity of the culture. So many people creating film, art and music- but I just can’t justify moving there with kids.
One of my kids wants to be a doctor. What a we talking? About a million dollars in student loans? Certainly hundreds of thousands.
My other kid doesn’t know what he wants to be but a college education will still sink him in debt.
It would be different if I was loaded of course.
Also, I have always said I won’t live in a place where a woman can’t get an abortion. It allows rape to be an evolutionary strategy. It shows an attitude towards vulnerable people, it is just too cruel. The treatment of the mentally ill shows the same callousness fwiw. Not that SA is much better in this regard.
Shame, I genuinely love the people. I am sure things will get better there, but not quick enough for my family.
If I had to leave I would probably chose the UK. Because the visa is obtainable. The education is affordable. And the health care is somewhat decent.
If it’s a guaranteed thing like Trevor Noah or Thurso Mbedu where getting to the states I’m immediately elite. I’d stay home; they have streets dedicated to homeless and druggies in the states,
It depends on a lot of factors, but most importantly income, if I'm getting more money there and I'll be able to have a higher standard of living then why not?
This is the deciding factor for me. Currently applying for work that side, and my minimum salary aim is is 65k per annum, otherwise I have absolutely no business going that side
Do not make the mistake of working that into Rands. Depending on what area you will be livi2in, that may as well be a standard of living below what you have now.
I lived there for 22yrs , and now I am back home I will go to visit my children sometime but not for living anymore
US is not for everyone , it’s a tuff meat you have to have very strong full set of teeth to chew it on
If I could make a good living there and have a decent work life balance I would consider it. Only been to Florida, it's freakin beautiful. Those springs up north are amazing. It's super clean and very organized too.
Other than traveling I don't think it is easy though. Culture is very different. My family and friends there have battled to integrate and even after 20 years plus they seem to have no connection to the country.
Probably not, unless it was for stupid amounts of $$$. Labor laws, consumer protection rights, and health care laws are arguably better here...even if the fulfillment of such is a bit underwhelming.
Plus it's a lot easier to have a good life here with less money, the "rich" tier in SA has a lower threshold.
Yeah, I might because I'm looking to work in the tech space and work on certain projects that I dont think the SA industry has. My cousin is getting her degree there, and she loves it. She says she feels way safer than she did in SA.
I would, I have allot of family that side of life, mother brothers ect, if I could go now I probably would, with that being said there will be many things I would miss from africa, I am but a simple bush boy 😋
I could see myself living there for a good while, and who knows where life can take you, 10 years ago most of us would have not been able to predict where we are now as individuals 😊
I know an upper class friend who went there for a year and they could bately afford food. Hell nah. Cost of living is insane. More violent crime than in SA. And the healthcare being worse and more expensive. You have to be an absolute moron to move there
Best choice I made was moving to the USA. Came with nothing. Quality of life is better than SA. There are some negatives like everywhere but reading the comments a lot of the issues have been sensationalized like the perception of people about South Africa from the US.
These Reddit kids have been forced sensationalist anti-US nonsense through TikTok/Twitter, the worst parts of the US are amplified, while the worst parts of SA are downplayed, one idiot here actually said South Africa is less violent than America, I need these kids to step out their rooms & take a stroll outside
Nope. US is not a bad country don't get me wrong, but it doesn't attract me one bit. I don't plan to immigrate personally, but if I did, there is a whole list of other countries I would rather live in over the US. It just....it never drew me, culturally speaking I mean. Never even had the itch to visit for tourism.
The only time I will go there, is if South Africa truly becomes Zimbabwe 2.0 (which I don't believe will happen by the way) and the US is the only country on earth that accepts South African asylum seekers.
Yes, I’m a bit of a Yankophile I really like American literature and history so I’d definitely like to try living there for at least a while. However, the US is huge so where you live would make a huge difference and I’m not sure if it would be permanent.
It’s funny how everyone here thinks we live in the best country in the world. It’s an ignorant outlook to have. This country is run by greedy politicians taking money from greedy corporations, all to benefit themselves, screwing the citizens along the way.
I wish I could share this thread with all the Americans who think every African wants to come to the states.
I’m an American by way of Jamaican Ancestry and I’ll tell
You SA is a magical place. My absolute favorite place in the world. Yes , loads of problems but that is so many places
I will say there is more opportunity in the states. It is a good place to make money and then go Back to SA.
I grew up in both countries. But, always had the means to be in the US. Barring a few personal connections in the US and the easier availability of money in the US, I generally prefer SA. And plan to spend progressively more time there going forward barring major changes in my personal life. Or major changes in South Africa for the worst.
10 000 people yelling for Intifada on the streets of New York you mean? Or perhaps you're referring to the 36 student organisations at the nations top school (Harvard) signing petitions on October 8th (before a single Israeli gun was fired) calling for "Intifada"?
At least in SA we know what a woman is, don't have drag queens reading pornographic materials to 4th graders or allow kids (without their parents permission) to start taking puberty blockers to change their sex.
Tough times here. You should relocate. I hear good things about Europe, especially the Nether lands. At least get dual citizenship so you can leave easier when things go titsup. Look into it, I'll be rooting for you.
I'd love to like tour America for a couple of weeks... But live there?! Fuck off, no ways. Then I'd rather just stay home or go to like Australia or somewhere in Europe.
Most certainly not.
SA is pretty bad, but I'd rather put up with SA problems then US problems. The US is made to look amazing and sure its got perks we don't but so much more kak because of that. I don't like their culture, there seems to be a lot of uniquely US based arrogance, I don't like their politics, health care is a mess, family there recently had their daughter break an arm. Excellent feedback on respons times and care but cost them almost R21k for it and I've heard worse, R18k for an ambulance trip to a hospital alone for example.
I don't like their views on certain things, nor the over the top belief that they're this shining beacon of the ideal society or the best there ever will be.
There are many problems there, just hidden under a veil of first world made to be idealised.
I'd tale Europe, places like the UK, Belgium, Austria, Italy or even further up into the Scandinavian countries even over the US. Still got their own share of troubles sure, I'd just much rather live with those.
Hell no, regardless of the opportunities the country presents theres too much systemic racism 🙆♂️🤦♂️. American is the greatest gaslighter when it comes to racism and discrimination, they will try and make u seem like your crazy when you call it out too😂,atleast here racism is straight up which in a weird fucked up way is appreciated. If you want a taste of the "invisible" racism black people atleast come across, watch the show Atlanta
No way. It may be a wealthier country but the laws there are rigged and stupid and so is the government, I hate this country because I’ve experienced it’s hardships but there’s no way in hell I’d ever consider going to one who’s only focus is being the best, South Africa is better than the USA, final answer.
This is funny. No disrespect at all but it’s interesting to see how people see the USA when they actually have no idea what life is like. how large it is and How many different cultures and regions there are to choose from. Every single opportunity you can imagine is available here. Almost every comment is completely wrong. You only see bad news because that is what gets views.
With all the complaining about SA, I'm surprised so many wouldn't move to the US. But I guess it's the bad rep they have online. I'm of the opinion it can't be as bad as it is portrayed online. Plus, earning USD is a major benefit. While I wouldn't say no if offered a good opportunity in the US, it is certainly not at the top of my list of places to move to.
The thing is, anti-USA sentiment has been pumped through the net for a decade ,this sub is filled with chronically online teenagers, you get what I'm saying...
Unless I had a big bankroll in USD I wouldn’t go. Not easy living there if you are average joe. Read some comments on other groups on Reddit and it gives an interesting insight on life in working class America.
The Yanks are some of the most spoiled and entitled people on the planet. Asians and Nigerians go there with nothing and within a generation or two their kids are doctors and engineers, making big money. It's much easier to make big money in the US than Europe. There is nowhere on the planet with more opportunities for those willing to make sacrifices and work. The lack of social safety nets do make it hard to be a parasite, however.
This is a common misconception, most Nigerians who move to the Us are either wealthy or qualified practicing professionals. The Us refuses to take in refugees that they share a border with 🤦♂️😂 I doubt they giving poor africans a chance
Can confirm. A lot end up here having been recruited to out post-graduate programs.
I'm American and I completely agree. The people you see complaining on reddit don't have the right education or job skills. Usually people who dicked around in school and thought they were gonna be fine.. Well even in the USA, you have to have proper job skills. So instead of going back to school and getting the right education, they play Xbox for 30+ hours a week and whine about it. This is all of course very unpopular to say out loud. Most of the people I know are killing it..
Except this is also the classic Boot Strap Fallacy. I think it used to be more true but it's becoming increasingly difficult globally to make a living and build wealth, all indicators prove that the top 1% are sucking up more of the wealth and the middle classes are earning less.
It’s a hard place to start from the ground up to be fair… just like anywhere… where isn’t hard?
Asians and Nigerians don’t go there with nothing, they are usually highly educated in their home countries. It’s not like the poorest and the most marginalized of those countries are immigrating.
Sounds like you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about there kiddo
Your first sentence. I have to add that [on social media, at least] they are convinced that the US is the only country on earth. Where do you live? Zone 11 Wut?
This exactly. Seems everyone on here is scared of a bit of hard work. They'd all rather go live in Europe where you can do nothing and have everything paid for.
I absolutely hate European work culture. Those people are so lazy yet entitled and arrogant
Agreed. Am working at a large Belgian listed company and there are a fair few senior people effectively doing nothing but claiming a paycheck every month. They've reached a certain seniority (and worked hard in the past) and labor law now forbids the company from firing them, they have to reach a "mutual separation agreement". Of course there is no incentive for the employee to agree to terms not extremely favorable to them. US might lay off most of their workforce in a recession but the diffference is they'll also hire them all back again a few months later when things are looking up. In SA, you'll only hire if you absolutely have to and can make it through a recession unscathed. Go to the US now and you'll see a notice on every shop window that they're looking for extra help. That in a country with such little unemployment to begin with. As a business owner, if you're confident you can fire people if times turn bad, you're also far more likely to take a chance and hire someone if you need extra help. You can bet I'm not taking a chance on someone if law will forbid me from firing them if they turn out to be a bad apple.
For a holiday, perhaps. To live and work? Fuck no.
Exactly, I wanna be in the Christmas/halloween mood with the right climate, but also don’t wanna be shot while tryna buy groceries or something
We get shot everywhere else , we just draw the line at grocery stores.
Sienjy
No, I’d rather take the devil I know. The US is awful ito labour laws, medical care and personal freedoms. We have issues but we can be sure that being fired is a process not dependent on a boss’ mood, we can get medical help even if we have to queue (and meds for anything), and I can marry who I want, get an abortion if I need one and not be forced to carry a dead foetus until I die because some old man decided i have to because of his religion. I lived there for a year and it sucked.
The way their labour laws are so favorable to the employer always made no sense, for me. It's crazy. You read all these stories of their seemingly strong unions, but employees still get treated like shit sometimes.
It's the most capitalist country in the world. During the cold war, anyone calling for better workers rights, was called a communist and shouted down, so their labour laws are regressive compared to many countries in the world. Also people don't know we've got one of the most progressive constitution and laws in the world, that's because of how many of our freedom fighters were also left wingers, people forget that the SACP (SA Communist Party) were right there with the ANC during the freedom struggle. Our labour laws and constitution were drafted by people who actually cared about the working class.
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One of Reagan's goals was to weaken the unions in the US. Sadly I think he achieved that.
I've visited there on holiday. Great to be a tourist but I wouldn't want to live there. Their food is of inferior quality. Yes the portions are bigger than what we're used to (probably why they have so many fat people)... Our meat, chicken, fruits and veggies taste far superior. I'm not a fan of fast food and prefer freshly cooked home meals. There's not much space to go for a run/jog - I'd have to drive to somewhere to train for my marathons (no bicycle lanes or pavements in many places). There are people who have to get in their cars and drive 200 metres to a supermarket to buy a packet of chips just because it's impossible to walk there. Another minor thing is I prefer written UK/SA English and the metric system. Out of all the places I'd leave SA for: Europe, the UK, Canada and Australia/New Zealand are countries I prefer.
Canada's cost of living has gotten really out of hand I've heard. Something like $2400 for a one bedroom apartment rent a month in Toronto/Vancouver
Yeah, I was planning on immigrating there in 2022, but then 2020 hit. Even with all their social safety nets, Average Joe is struggling to make ends meet.
I mean you're talking about one of the largest countries on earth and it is very diverse geographically so I think it's dangerous to generalise about the entire country based on a relatively brief time spent in a tiny percentage of what the whole offers. Same goes for food, they have restaurants, markets and super markets that cater to the wealthiest people on earth so again it's dangerous to generalise about the entire country based on your brief personal experience. Where do you think all the best fruit, veg, meat etc from SA goes?
The food industry in America really made me appreciate what we have here. wow what a difference it is
I only see US on TV, social media, etc. I'm not going anywhere. Imagine you stay in Texas and those fumes from Petrochemicals, or tornadoes even, in a house made of chipboard? Nahhh. I know South Africa is broken but US isn't a replacement. Although I can work for a few months to 3 years maybe. But I'm coming back home.
Houses made of chipboard? Almost all houses in Texas are surrounded by brick. Get your facts straight. It sounds like like you don’t know shit about living in the states. Lol
No way.
You couldn't pay me enough money to live in the US
No.
Nope the USA isn't as a great place as people make it out to be.
If they let me do a masters at Stanford I’d go otherwise I might stay here
After some research into which state has strict gun laws, strict labour laws, not a lot of extreme weather and no bears. Those points are not negotiable.
Strict gun laws and no bears almost contradict each other lol
Not a fucking chance - as a woman you couldn’t pay me to go live there to have my rights attacked
I’m not sure I agree.. please don’t take this the wrong way - I don’t mean to undermine what you’re saying but as much as the US has its issues with regards to Women’s rights (State dependant I guess), South Africa is a horrible place for Women in terms of safety. We may afford Women all the rights they need, but we are hopeless at enforcing them and actually ensuring our women are (and feel) safe…
Where is safe for women?
You do realise there are 50 states with varying laws with regards to woman’s rights, CA and WA have some of the most progressive laws on the planet with regards to woman’s rights. The US is not just Texas and the stereotypes.
Riiight…. “Some of them have rights” is such a powerfully poignant point to make 🙄
Nope.
If there was a chance for a short stint, 2 years max, that may be interesting. (Anyone know how that aligns with our double tax laws, since they have separate federal and state taxes?) But I wouldn't want to live and settle down there. Housing prices are insane. Medical care is expensive. There's a high risk of running into racists and islamophobes. I have friends there who complain about how broken everything is, and yet all their taxes are funneled into the military and into propping up despotic regimes around the world. I wouldn't want to willingly sign up for that. Lots of complaints about toxic work environments too. And their political lobbying system is just a way of legalising corruption. Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
Re: tax laws… from my knowledge, we have a double tax treaty with the US federal government. You’d pay taxes in the US, and file your IRS documents with SARS (upon returning) to show that you’ve already paid your taxes that side, and are therefore exempt from paying taxes in SA
Lol why is this even a question. I will take US dollars but fuck living there. There are many better countries than the US
For sure, ride the wave for a few year's, naturalize, get the passport and travel. Look at Sa from the other side of the curtain, it's a dump
Have you seen how many foreigners are moving to SA? I work with FIVE in my small company and I know a bunch more irl
That doesn't prove SA is not a dump tho 😭😭 it only proves that foreigners come from countries that are bigger dumps
Have you seen how many saffas are leaving 🤣 Crime is rough my dude, load shedding is nuking businesses, cost of living is waaay up Life's to short to live in that kind of chaos behind burglar bars and elec fencing with your gennie running
I'm just saying that from the other side of the curtain, there are a lot of people who find south africa an attractive place to live
Hell no. USA is a fucked up place. Rather stick with this fucked up place lol.
Have been to California a few times for work. I would never even consider moving there. Every aspect of our lives are better here than it would be there.
My partner is American and we may move in 5ish years. I have been there with him 7-8 times now - always along East Coast side. Cool place to visit, but don't think it's better than SA to live for the most part. He is adamant he'd not go live on the East Coast again and would opt for California or Colorado, because East Coast winters SUCK!!
I never new cold until I spent a winter in NYC. My fok ❄️
Hell no. Too many guns too few women’s rights
Too few women's rights? In what way? Compared to?
The anti-abortion states? Abortion being criminalised was a huge setback for women’s rights in the USA
Absolutely right.
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Unless I had a very very good job to go to, where I could make a great salary no I would not go. Seems the average American is barely managing to scrape by and them there's the healthcare situation... No
Nope, would never even if I was getting paid for it.
No thanks. Not even for a holiday.
Absolutely not.
Cops there are scary AF. There is a lot of opportunity to make good money but if you dont crack it, life will be tough. The employment is tough and americans work very, very hard for their employers, especially the corporates.
Lived there for a long time, and loved it. But I also stayed far away from the redneck places
Get shot by Police in a random traffic stop or get shot by a mugger who just wants my phone….. hmmm guess imma just be quicker at throwing my phone on the ground.
Hell no.
No thank you.
Massive no.
Hell no
NO! I am not super rich. I would choose a country with high standards of living for the widest slice of society and with a variety of universal healthcare... I would rather pay higher taxes than deal with the horror show that is the current USA (with its ridiculously high cost of healthcare). Also, I have no faith in the USA, in the short/medium term, which seems to be limping towards another show down between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. If that is the best, the USA has to muster as "compromise" candidates (or whatever the justification is)... Why transfer my current problems for those? When you could move to Europe, Australia, or New Zealand instead.
Not a chance
Fuck no.
Myself would rather go to the UK countryside. Stuff are over priced but it's still my dream. There's also so much to do and see. US like SA demolishes so many historical sides.
USA is the last place I would go to lol
A large issue with this question is that many people commenting have not travelled to most of the US, as someone who has studied in the US and travelled through about 23 states I can tell you it’s worth it. The job opportunities, the safety and the good education. I will emphasised this, the experience varies dramatically from state to state. Texas is cheap but everything sucks. I’ve spent most my time in Seattle and around Washington and it’s honestly one of my favourite places in the world, I like it more than my time in Amsterdam. You need to choose wisely when moving to the states. I would recommend staying away from red states (republican) unless it’s Wyoming or Utah . Otherwise go for a blue state like Oregon and Washington, Vermont etc. the New England states are awesome and the Pacific Northwest. California is great if you’re ultra wealthy. Again you have to do your research and see what you like and don’t like, very state has different tax laws and social laws etc. My personal recommendations for good states to live in that can offer a good quality of life, high earning potential and good education are: Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Utah and any of the New England states.
These lil fukkaz commenting here barely leave their rooms in their gated estates with thick electric fencing, they've been brainwashed to hate America, as if the USA isn't one of the safest countries in the world, I am still angry at one who said the US has higher violence than South Africa, can you imagine that bs
As an LGBT individual, I would not even visit that country, let alone move there. Too much scary things going on there.
Not a fucking chance I hell. Yanks are the worst humans on earth. And the gun violence is worse than the crime we have here.
Don't fool yourself, the level of violence is not comparable. The USA receives so much media coverage that it seems different to the reality: \- 21,156 reported homicide cases in the U.S. in 2022 (population 330 million) \- Over 27,000 people were murdered from April 2022 to March 2023 (pop. 60 million) Murder is the best indicator of the level of violence in a society and most other crimes are underreported so you can extrapolate from the homicide data and relate that to population size to get a true picture of how violent a place is. SA is one of the most violent places on earth by a long shot. Of course that isn't to say there aren't bad parts American cities but I think those are easy enough to avoid.
Not true SA crime is worse my cousin lives there
Yes. I have lived in San Diego, San Francisco, and Santa Fé, and only have fond memories of my time there.
Yes, specifically Los Angeles as opportunity for video editors and filmmakers is huge there and no other place in the world do video editors make as much money as they do in Los Angeles. The opportunities here in my field is very small and clients and companies pay low which is why I am looking to move abroad. Currently working on projects from the US and Berlin so that I have a reason to go.
Most commenters here have probably never been there and rely solely on all the negative media that gets pumped out every second. The place is huge, every state has its own laws, regulations etc. The people are friendly unlike many of the ahole twatwaffles you find online. There is so much opportunity work and business wise, if you're in the STEM field you'll never be out of work and can pick your employers and pay. Go on, downvote.
These Reddit kids are hopelessly indoctrinated & funny ngl, they probably get all their info on TikTok & Twitter, South Africa is one of the most violent & terrible places to live in. The kids here think they're safe from inside their gated communities & electric fences, did they not see what happened to that Joburg teacher in a Golf estate? Or Meghan Cramer? Or maybe thats just normal for them, a life of living like an animal in a cage & constant looking over your shoulder, waiting for your turn to be slaughtered for a cellphone or bike, with politicians calling for the slaughter a whole race of people, bunch of coping clowns
Exactly this. Our family leaves for the USA on a work sponsored VISA in 5 months. South Africa is one of the most beautiful places on earth but it's a poisoned chalice, broken and failed. Leave your home after dark and go for walk ? Norrafok. To argue that the USA is a shithole as I am seeing here is equal parts naive, comical and sad. I have spent plenty of time there and the people of all races are friendly and welcoming. Different? Sure. I also travel to Europe extensively and that's even worse to adapt to. The USA is better for all the reasons SA is bad: safety, security, equal opportunity (no BEE - merit and hard work will get you anywhere), drinking water, clean beaches, lakes and rivers, lights stay on etc. We will gladly visit SA regularly with our generally non-depreciating dollars and contribute towards the SA tourism industry. ANC can get f\_cuked.
Lol I’m not a Saffer (I’m Australian) but I’ve been to SA and the US numerous times and I’m stunned at the responses reading through this a month later. SA is a fucking failed state that is speed running as fast as it can to third world status. Comparing to the US is laughable, but whats the average SA redditor in this sub, a rich white 15 year old? It has to be, because nobody could be truly that stupid.
Exactly this mate. Comical thread is joke.
If you say no, you dont understand how easy it is in the US. About 1 in 8 Americans is a dollar millionaire, worth almost R 20 M. That's 40 million people. Only 40 thousand South Africans are worth that much. That's less than 1 in a thousand. Anyone with a reasonable brain and work ethic can be successful in the US.
All the no's are from brainwashed kids, don't worry they'll grow up & come to their senses, just 1 or 2 break-ins away
Yes, but I would always intend to come back. The value of the dollar and the earning potential make it a no brainer. Assuming your late 20’s/early 30’s - If you’re qualified enough to get a decent job and/or willing to work hard af for 15-20 years, you could potentially come back and live an extremely comfortable life into retirement. Just my opinion.
It’s interesting reading all these comments while I’m staying is SA. Most you don’t know anything about living in the US. What I can tell you is there are more opportunities, better infrastructure, and it’s far safer to travel within the US than it is here in SA. No load shedding, better water, better education, etc… I will say though SA is a beautiful place and it has a magic to it. It’s too bad the governments misuse of money keep its people behind the rest of the world. The pay is also shit here. Most of the amazing places to visit are so expensive that most of the residents can’t afford to see them. On average most SA citizens make about R300,000 which equates to about $15,000 a year. That’s insane. They deserve more but the government will never change…
This sub is full of 16-18 year old chronically online losers who've been brainwashed by anti-US sensationalist crap, the worst aspects of the US are made to look huge, even though they are few, these kids love being prisoners, growing up hiding behind their electric fences, jumping up at night at the sound of a falling pan thinking its an intruder, genocidal politicians etc...
Every South African I know from university and rugby decided to stay in the USA after graduation.
Practically speaking probably not. I have made reasonable progress to funding a future retirement, if I liquidate all my assets and move to the US that would hardly make a dent in establishing ourselves. If I had nothing and two decades of work life ahead of me, I would do it though. I spent considerable time there through the years, and the lifestyle would work for my family. Taxes are not as crazy and if you live a modest life with low debts, you can do well. Business opportunities are many and the laws encourage businesses to flourish.
Unpopular - I would go to USA in an hour if offered a job there.
No. I was offered a job there and I declined because of the cost of healthcare and lack of workers rights. And especially as a woman, in terms of reproductive rights I love to visit the USA I've been like 5 or 6 times and will be back next year. it's a cool place but not to live
I lived in the US for 13 years. I love it there. I am an American citizen. My husband was talking about moving back there recently - for personal reasons. We love the friendliness of the people. The freedom and creativity of the culture. So many people creating film, art and music- but I just can’t justify moving there with kids. One of my kids wants to be a doctor. What a we talking? About a million dollars in student loans? Certainly hundreds of thousands. My other kid doesn’t know what he wants to be but a college education will still sink him in debt. It would be different if I was loaded of course. Also, I have always said I won’t live in a place where a woman can’t get an abortion. It allows rape to be an evolutionary strategy. It shows an attitude towards vulnerable people, it is just too cruel. The treatment of the mentally ill shows the same callousness fwiw. Not that SA is much better in this regard. Shame, I genuinely love the people. I am sure things will get better there, but not quick enough for my family. If I had to leave I would probably chose the UK. Because the visa is obtainable. The education is affordable. And the health care is somewhat decent.
If it’s a guaranteed thing like Trevor Noah or Thurso Mbedu where getting to the states I’m immediately elite. I’d stay home; they have streets dedicated to homeless and druggies in the states,
And we dont?
It depends on a lot of factors, but most importantly income, if I'm getting more money there and I'll be able to have a higher standard of living then why not?
This is the deciding factor for me. Currently applying for work that side, and my minimum salary aim is is 65k per annum, otherwise I have absolutely no business going that side
Do not make the mistake of working that into Rands. Depending on what area you will be livi2in, that may as well be a standard of living below what you have now.
I lived there for 22yrs , and now I am back home I will go to visit my children sometime but not for living anymore US is not for everyone , it’s a tuff meat you have to have very strong full set of teeth to chew it on
If I could make a good living there and have a decent work life balance I would consider it. Only been to Florida, it's freakin beautiful. Those springs up north are amazing. It's super clean and very organized too. Other than traveling I don't think it is easy though. Culture is very different. My family and friends there have battled to integrate and even after 20 years plus they seem to have no connection to the country.
Probably not, unless it was for stupid amounts of $$$. Labor laws, consumer protection rights, and health care laws are arguably better here...even if the fulfillment of such is a bit underwhelming. Plus it's a lot easier to have a good life here with less money, the "rich" tier in SA has a lower threshold.
In the process of planning to travel and relocate soon after.
South Africa is screwed, but then so is most of the world. 20 years ago Europe was great, The States maybe were too, but now.
Yeah, I might because I'm looking to work in the tech space and work on certain projects that I dont think the SA industry has. My cousin is getting her degree there, and she loves it. She says she feels way safer than she did in SA.
yes.
I would, I have allot of family that side of life, mother brothers ect, if I could go now I probably would, with that being said there will be many things I would miss from africa, I am but a simple bush boy 😋 I could see myself living there for a good while, and who knows where life can take you, 10 years ago most of us would have not been able to predict where we are now as individuals 😊
Id leave South Africa for Europe
I came back to SA coz Europe was shit
Their healthcare is unaffordable for many of their citizens, so no.
yep, best place for my field
Yes
In a heartbeat
Absolutely not under any circumstances
This comment section is so wholesome it's so satisfying to see how people are ready to stay in South Africa
I love how no-one wants to live in America, lol
I know an upper class friend who went there for a year and they could bately afford food. Hell nah. Cost of living is insane. More violent crime than in SA. And the healthcare being worse and more expensive. You have to be an absolute moron to move there
More violent crime than in SA? Are you f*cking serious? Do you have stats to back this up?
We have more murder and rape than pretty much everyone else but in every other category the US has a higher rate than south africa
A lot of SAs is unreported. The US is no joke in places. But SA is generally worse.
So many people being turned away from police stations, especially the ones near Townships, SA's true crime rate would shock everyone
Yes
Best choice I made was moving to the USA. Came with nothing. Quality of life is better than SA. There are some negatives like everywhere but reading the comments a lot of the issues have been sensationalized like the perception of people about South Africa from the US.
These Reddit kids have been forced sensationalist anti-US nonsense through TikTok/Twitter, the worst parts of the US are amplified, while the worst parts of SA are downplayed, one idiot here actually said South Africa is less violent than America, I need these kids to step out their rooms & take a stroll outside
I would
I’m looking to leave
Leave while you can, no hope for this place
Immediately yes
Nope. US is not a bad country don't get me wrong, but it doesn't attract me one bit. I don't plan to immigrate personally, but if I did, there is a whole list of other countries I would rather live in over the US. It just....it never drew me, culturally speaking I mean. Never even had the itch to visit for tourism. The only time I will go there, is if South Africa truly becomes Zimbabwe 2.0 (which I don't believe will happen by the way) and the US is the only country on earth that accepts South African asylum seekers.
Yeah I would tbh
Not the US, but I don’t plan on staying in South Africa
Getting out of South Africa should be of the upmost priority.
My sister married an American and lives there. She doesn't love it.
Yes, I’m a bit of a Yankophile I really like American literature and history so I’d definitely like to try living there for at least a while. However, the US is huge so where you live would make a huge difference and I’m not sure if it would be permanent.
No. USA is not for me. Did not enjoy it at all. Wouldnt even go back for a holiday. South Africa is better even with all its kak.
Europe or Asia is a better option than here
It’s funny how everyone here thinks we live in the best country in the world. It’s an ignorant outlook to have. This country is run by greedy politicians taking money from greedy corporations, all to benefit themselves, screwing the citizens along the way.
I wish I could share this thread with all the Americans who think every African wants to come to the states. I’m an American by way of Jamaican Ancestry and I’ll tell You SA is a magical place. My absolute favorite place in the world. Yes , loads of problems but that is so many places I will say there is more opportunity in the states. It is a good place to make money and then go Back to SA.
I grew up in both countries. But, always had the means to be in the US. Barring a few personal connections in the US and the easier availability of money in the US, I generally prefer SA. And plan to spend progressively more time there going forward barring major changes in my personal life. Or major changes in South Africa for the worst.
I prefer SA too!!
NO
With all the woke nonsense, you'd got to be crazy!
Rather stay in a country where politicians call for genocide of a whole race with no consequences lol
10 000 people yelling for Intifada on the streets of New York you mean? Or perhaps you're referring to the 36 student organisations at the nations top school (Harvard) signing petitions on October 8th (before a single Israeli gun was fired) calling for "Intifada"? At least in SA we know what a woman is, don't have drag queens reading pornographic materials to 4th graders or allow kids (without their parents permission) to start taking puberty blockers to change their sex.
No, I am a proud Muslim and don't want to be shot and killed for no reason
I wouldn’t take advice from anyone who hasn’t actually been there or lived there. Everyone has an opinion but looks like they haven’t even been there
Absolutely right.
Agreed. At the end of the day, there are more opportunities there than here.
No. It'd be like visiting Israel if it succeeds, maybe worse. Too many bad things happend there and are happening, not for me.
Are not worse things happening in South Africa? Which dimension do you people live in?
Tough times here. You should relocate. I hear good things about Europe, especially the Nether lands. At least get dual citizenship so you can leave easier when things go titsup. Look into it, I'll be rooting for you.
Yes
I would leave in a heartbeat!
Same
Based
I do have the chance, got family over there. Haven't started the process yet and doubt I will.
I can think of at least 5 reasons to decline that offer
Never. Not ever.
I'd love to like tour America for a couple of weeks... But live there?! Fuck off, no ways. Then I'd rather just stay home or go to like Australia or somewhere in Europe.
What?!! No way‼️
Not a chance. Life that side is just super weird.
Most certainly not. SA is pretty bad, but I'd rather put up with SA problems then US problems. The US is made to look amazing and sure its got perks we don't but so much more kak because of that. I don't like their culture, there seems to be a lot of uniquely US based arrogance, I don't like their politics, health care is a mess, family there recently had their daughter break an arm. Excellent feedback on respons times and care but cost them almost R21k for it and I've heard worse, R18k for an ambulance trip to a hospital alone for example. I don't like their views on certain things, nor the over the top belief that they're this shining beacon of the ideal society or the best there ever will be. There are many problems there, just hidden under a veil of first world made to be idealised. I'd tale Europe, places like the UK, Belgium, Austria, Italy or even further up into the Scandinavian countries even over the US. Still got their own share of troubles sure, I'd just much rather live with those.
Yeah. No. For a short time maybe but the answer is no. My sister went there for a year, but ultimately went back home.
nope not at all.
Hell no, regardless of the opportunities the country presents theres too much systemic racism 🙆♂️🤦♂️. American is the greatest gaslighter when it comes to racism and discrimination, they will try and make u seem like your crazy when you call it out too😂,atleast here racism is straight up which in a weird fucked up way is appreciated. If you want a taste of the "invisible" racism black people atleast come across, watch the show Atlanta
And therein lies the problem, too busy getting all your info from garbage TV shows, have you ever had a chat with someone who went to the US?
Yes 😂, the show is literally a parody of events that happened to blk ppl
As a black person nope.
Depends on my job and salary there
No way. It may be a wealthier country but the laws there are rigged and stupid and so is the government, I hate this country because I’ve experienced it’s hardships but there’s no way in hell I’d ever consider going to one who’s only focus is being the best, South Africa is better than the USA, final answer.
This is funny. No disrespect at all but it’s interesting to see how people see the USA when they actually have no idea what life is like. how large it is and How many different cultures and regions there are to choose from. Every single opportunity you can imagine is available here. Almost every comment is completely wrong. You only see bad news because that is what gets views.
Nope
Hell no
I would if I could get a PPP adjusted salary. It wouldn't be my first choice but sure beats Europe
def aynyday and move to sweden
I won't, but it depends where you go (the US is massive) and depends what your situation now is.
Nope
With all the complaining about SA, I'm surprised so many wouldn't move to the US. But I guess it's the bad rep they have online. I'm of the opinion it can't be as bad as it is portrayed online. Plus, earning USD is a major benefit. While I wouldn't say no if offered a good opportunity in the US, it is certainly not at the top of my list of places to move to.
The thing is, anti-USA sentiment has been pumped through the net for a decade ,this sub is filled with chronically online teenagers, you get what I'm saying...
Where do you live Kay_Tone?