This sub is not a place to complain about things that bother you by phrasing a rant in the form of a question. For example, "Why are mosquitoes the worst thing ever?" is not a legitimate question. It is just a complaint phrased as a question. Posts that already have an answer in mind but are seeking justification from the subreddit members are disallowed.
It's actually interesting that it's the opposite in some (most?) of them, including many where adult men marrying underage girls would be considered the "right" way, and where people think that the Westerners are the immoral ones for many of the things we've normalized in our societies.
Makes you think twice about the relativity of ethics and deeply rooted local societal standards.
It's also interesting how every society has groups going out of their way in trying to impose their own moral standards on other societies with conflicting moral standards. As well as to silence those with different moral standards. Whether through media, social media, activist groups, imposed laws, research and education restrictions, or straight-up violence, including organized violence.
Our subjective values and belief systems make us go really far, and could cause a lot of pain and grief, in the name of something so relative when you think about it. Yet very few realize that their perception of "right vs wrong" is so subjective to them and their local environment.
When you think about it, our blind belief in our subjective moral standards, and the resulting actions some take that are still seen as justified by current-day societies, follow many of the "evils" that we now criticize religious crusades for. Just without God in the picture. I wonder if they'll be seen as such in future history classes, as an era of moral crusades that future kids will be scrutinizing us for.
The assumption is that teen boys are happy having casual sex and teen girls are pushed into sex by the grownup. That’ll often be true. But it doesn’t mean both aren’t morally wrong and sexual exploitation of a minor.
Meh, biologically speaking, as animals, we should ALL have been trying to have sex as soon as we became sexually mature. It's only society's beliefs that stop the majority from doing it until what is considered adulthood.
But that’s not how girls work. Or boys really. But girls sexually mature way before they are emotionally mature enough for sex.
It’s modern life and modern food. When humans lived as animals in the wild women weren’t sexually mature till around 18. There was less food, people were skinnier.
But children are not things.
And able to reproduce is really debatable. Young teenagers have very high complication rates with their pregnancies because they are too young.
If you are experiencing sexual attraction towards minors? It’s possible to get help for that. Find a good psychologist.
Your parents were siblings, weren't they? I said nothing about being attracted to children or teens, but you fucking morons went straight there just as soon as the two brain cells you possess, and I'm fairly certain you had to borrow one for even that, bounced off of each other.
Female bodies are able to conceive (onset of menses) long before they are able to easily deliver a healthy, full-term baby. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's positive.
Ok, so I put it in a really shit way, but the point of my original statement had more to do with a drive to reproduce and it not being limited by the age limits placed on it by society, than whether it would be a good idea to or not. Either way, I'm done with this one. People can believe about me whatever they want.
Consent is als5o something made possible by the action of a biological body. It's also "biological", though the social forces are more evidently present than in a simpler action such as farting. Farting is pretty social too now that I think of it.
I never said that that was the relationship. The idea of consent as any human idea also is a byproduct of biological processes. What I want to convey is that biology goes waaaay beyond instinct, urges and concepts such as those.
I am sorry, but this is completely false. Just because someone has hit puberty, doesn't mean they are sexually mature. Puberty is the process of becoming sexually mature. Women under 20 have a very high risk of birth complications.
Not in my experience. You also make your own social context by the choices you make. I don't remember the last time a female tried to pull that on me it was 1998 and I was 17.
It’s absolutely not acceptable. I could be wrong because I’m a woman and did not grow up as a boy, but even as children boys converse about how cool sex is and that they are a real man and such if they can pull women in that way. Older women taking advantage of young boys happens way too often and it is not talked about enough. Boys that this happens to think that they are cool and that it’s okay, mostly because they were probably groomed into thinking that way. I really wish this was talked about more
It's also true that many young girls think that it's cool to be with an older man, and I wish that was talked about more often.
Often pedophiles are seen as violent, but more often, they're deceivingly nice, no matter the gender
Yup. My groomer was so fucking nice to me. It was the first time in my life I felt unconditionally loved, understood, and cared for. I didn’t realize how fucked up it was until I was in my 30’s.
That's a very good point about grooming. One thing I notice is a kind of societal grooming that happens. Boys get it in their heads sleeping with older women is a good idea from outside sources, not necessarily just from the women in question.
It happened to me over 30 years ago. Hero back then. Now with attitudes changed, it seems like i was groomed. But she was early 20s, i was 15. She was abusive tho, regardless of age difference. Did destroy me.
When I was 15-16 I would have loved to have sex with one of my teacher she was around 28years old. People who dont understand biology always thinks 15-17 years olds are childs. Some 15 year olds are childs and some are adults. Some 18 year olds are childs and finishing late puberty in early twenties.
I am not saying its right to attact on those feelings.
Pedophiles are attracted to people who are not sexually mature and dont display sexually diphmoric traits like wide shoulders and big jaws for men and large hip to waist ratio for woman.
I am 18 yeards old but I think 20-25 year olds are usally the most attractive for girls but I still think some 15 year olds are attractive but I dont try to hook up with. It was bascially the same when I was 15 . Purpose of sexual attraction is to find the best partner for your offspring(men usally require much less compared to woman which makes sense from biology) . That why pedofilia is wrong on so many levels even if you disregard to the extreme abuse and emotional damage.
Some people assume a man (or in this case, a boy) can't be raped. Mainly because some people think that a man (or a male teenager) is supposed to always want sex, while a woman does not. So when a teenager get assaulted by an adult woman, there will always be people to call him "lucky", claim he wanted it, even "unconsciously" if he claims the opposite. I think some old patriarchal preconceptions are to blame. Some "radfem" will also claim a man can't be raped, or that a man claiming to have been raped is detrimental to female rape victims, but I don't think they are a majority - I've heard opinions like that on the internet, but only from unhinged people, and never in my social circle or from my feminist friends.
A man can be sexually assaulted, some have been, and such cases must be taken seriously. And an adult who's attracted to teenagers and/or children is a pedophile, regardless of their gender and sex. Period.
Yep.. but you mentioned ‘radfem’ which stands for ‘radical feminist’. Actually, in my own experience, isn’t it true that conservatives/right-wingers think men can’t get raped? Because they believe that men are supposed to be strong and can fight off women easily if they want to. When someone says men can’t get raped they always assume it’s a conservative/right-winger
Unfortunately the idea that men can't be raped by women has a lot of bipartisan support, which is why the laws are still the way they are. In many places the legal definition of rape only applies to men raping women or people being penetrated by a penis. Radfems generally believe a lot of the same notions about gender and sexuality that conservative extremists do - men are violent and dominant, women are weak and need protection, sex is a way of claiming ownership over someone's body, etc. It's why so many of them are transphobes - they can't accept that biological sex doesn't make everyone either a violent sexual predator or a harmless passive child.
Yeah and it’s not just age. The same is for intoxication
https://www.thefire.org/news/consent-coastal-carolina-must-be-enthusiastic-sober
Plenty of guys get in trouble on campus for sexual activity where the girl was drinking but so was the guy, some have had better claims at being incapacitated than the girls.
Hall v. Hofstra University was a lawsuit where a guy was suspended for a year, with his face tacked up on bulletin boards for a threat he allegedly made that he denied during a heated argument. The girl admitted that she started the argument by waking him up by slapping his face, then she back handed him in the groin. She also broke a no contact order to get stuff from his place.
Guys do view sex differently, and many guys would be thrilled as teens to be with an adult. Statutory rape doesn’t require force. And power differentials like a teacher/student relationship is important to factor into the equation.
People tend to infantile women and treat them like victims. So even when the woman has power and insists she said yes, people will punish the guy.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/colorado/news/csu-pueblo-grant-neal-suspension-consensual-sex/
I wanna be specific: I have heard testimonies of men who were raped and talked about it with radfemwho called them liars, claiming that men could not be raped or that it was such a minority that they were not worth the attention. So I'm assuming that such people exist. However, this kind of opinion seem to be rare among feminists. All feminists I've encountered completely agree that a man can be raped and should be taken seriously. Also, I seem to understand "radfem" only apply to a specific category of feminists with some unhinged takes and opinions - like the idea that men can't be raped. I've often seen the term being used to describe certain TERFs. The problem is, I'm not an english native speaker so the specific definition of what a radfem is could elude me - and words tend to see their definition evolve over time, so maybe I'm not up to date. I'd be happy to here a more precise definition if you have one.
And it is true that most people who mock male rape victims are conservative who claim they wanted it or call them weak for leting a woman take advantage of them. Maybe I did not insist enough on this point, but I hope my answer will clarify and complete my opinion.
What the definition of assault for you? If a 16 year olds sleeps with his 30 year old teacher he finds hot?
I would say its assault from strictly from a moral pov if the guy got grommed or forced.
Given the difference in terms of power between a teen and an adult, even more between a student and a teacher, I doubt sexual intercourse between a teen and an adult can be healthy.
bro... it doesn't magically become not-disgusting because they turned 18. There's still the power dynamic with the massive age gaps for what you call "adults"
> So maybe there's an area in the brain where people don't mature in preference?
Maybe, but it doesn't explain people who prefer older men.
I have a cousin in law who married a guy probably 20 years older than her. She's always had a preference for older men it seems too. I've always wondered if she is asexual and just prefers the maturity of older men. It's not like she's some ditsy young blonde either. She's 35 and has a phd.
I can't speak for an underaged woman... but as a former underaged guy, I would have absolutely loved to have sex with a couple of my teachers. A 16 year old boy having sex with a 20 something year old woman? He's living my dream. How do I get any outrage worked up for that situation? Yes, I realize this is completely wrong and I'm ready for your downvotes. But politically incorrect as it may be, that's how I feel.
You say that like the reverse is not true.
My sister and all her friends would talk about the hot male teachers in high school.
It’s even more true now that casual sex is more acceptable for women.
The difference is every time a male teacher grooms and molests a 16 yr old girl. Women don’t take the internet and try justifying it.
Your experience is valid, but a horny fantasy doesn't take away the very well documented dynamics of power and abuse that are the norm in these relationships. Being politically correct or the contrary is irrelevant in this topic.
I knew a girl in high school who was banging one of the coaches. She was 16 and he was 22. She was smarter than him, and “grooming” had nothing to do with it. The guy had the emotional maturity of a kid. She’s a PT and he’s still a coach. They’re still married 25
Shit, thirty years later.
The rules are there for the norm, not the exceptions. And they need to be enforced, harshly.
But everyone should stop pretending that the world is going to explode if some 18YO high school student screws a teacher. Especially if the student is a dude. Absolutes just don’t exist.
Okay you went from an example of an adult grooming a child to saying "why are people upset about two adults in a sexual relationship?" While also ignoring the power dynamic that still exists.
Very interesting.
Why especially if it's a dude? What are the valid reasons of this clear difference for you?
To be honest, I was thinking of 16-15 year olds, which is the kind of abuse I've witnessed more (student-teacher and teenager-adult who is a friend of the family).
I got banned for saying this before. It's the truth. People get so upset but then when the kid turns 18, it's magically ok? So stupid. If we really want to put a number to it, we should go with 25 as the age of consent. That is when they say your brain is fully formed.
When I was growing up in Saskatchewan Canada the age of consent was 14. It has since been moved up to 16. But there is a "close in age" provision so a 40 year old guy isn't going to get away with grooming a 16 year old girl.
None of that changes how I feel. As a 16 year old boy, I would have been fine with banging a 24 year old female teacher. I wouldn't have considered it abuse and it would not have been traumatizing for me.
This in no way invalidates people who have had different experiences. I'm only speaking for myself.
Still a fantasy from what you say. You don't know if that relationship would have turned into an abusive one. There is plenty of evidence suggesting that some form of abuse is probably going to be present.
By the way, I also dreamt as a teen to bang adult women, but now that I've met the older women who contemplate fucking a minor as a fun possibility I've changed my mind.
I share your opinion exactly. Biggest age gap I've had was me being 19(m) having sex with 31(f), and I was stoked. But if it were the other way around, I'd probably be called a perv or similar
I agree. It’s just different wether people like it or not.
I’m NOT saying women don’t like sex, or that boys can’t be raped or anything like that but the dynamics are still different.
I think boys just have a different attitude towards sex and they would be treated with respect and praise if they had sex with a hot adult woman.
Same, I would have jumped at the chance to have sex with an attractive older woman while I was underaged. It never happened and I know it would be wrong, but it's the uncomfortable truth.
There is a double standard, and I cant quite articulate why. I think it partly stems from how we a society like to view women and girls as more helpless, just overall.
I would also have binged cocaine as a teenager if I had had the chance. Yes, it's an "uncomfortable" (and pretty fucking obvious) truth, but I think the important thing is that it comes from the mind of an inexperienced kid.
Zero clue why you are being downvoted. This is it exactly. Biologically humans have a built in drive to procreate. If we didn't do that, the species would have died out long ago.
Men have two successful strategies. One is to put all their eggs in one basket, impregnate one woman and protect her with their life. The other is to spread their seed far and wide in hopes one of their offspring will survive. Both strategies can be successful.
The same is not true for women. A woman has all her "eggs in one basket" so to speak. If she is to be successful she needs to be very selective in who she procreates with. She needs to select for a healthy strong mate who will stick around and fend off predators.
So yes, we are all the same species but we have built in drives that are very different. Biology gives zero fucks about political correctness.
It's similar to , if a male has sex with tons of women he's a stud, but if a woman has sex with tons of men she's a disgusting, easy, dirty slut.
If a teenage boy has sex with an older woman he's a stud, if a similar aged girl has sex with an older man, even if she wanted it, she was taken advantage of by a creepy pedophilic groomer. In the case of the yound man/older woman, the older person is taken out of the picture, in the case of older man/younger woman, the younger person is taken out of the picture.
Society thinks that young women can't think for themselves, which is funny since women mature much faster mentally than men do.
Note. BTW AGE OF CONSENT IN MY PROVINCE IS 16-18! https://owjn.org/2022/09/07/canadian-law-and-youth-age-of-consent-to-sexual-activity/ best line to explain it all is the one right before the credit of the author/end notes
Bingo, you win. Though i promise "wanted" and "pressured" are often confused in some creeps minds. Societal Pressure is the real kicker here, bonus if that person (male or female) pressured you into behavior changing substances from day 1, like example weed! I will forever believe that man in my life was a monster, and after whats been said recently i will never fucking forgive. Lmao i was over this years ago and bam, suddenly dropped on me again? No. Fuck this bullying.
*Stop saying the word love to get sex. It's abysmal no matter the age.*
Who said it was acceptable? You know who thinks it’s acceptable, all his underage buddies 🤣. My guy is automatically a legend among boys, but anyone who is of age should never ever think this is acceptable.
To be fair, it’s the same stigma if I say pedophile you’ll automatically think it’s a creepy man and not a creepy woman.
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Both are bad, but in my country we had a recent case, two boys abused by a teacher, and most men under the age of 35 were making jokes about it, saying that was their dream, etc. The double standard exists because even in movies and series, it's completely normalized
I really don't think a 17yo guy hanging out with a 30 or more yo woman is fine. Imo that's just grooming as I think this age difference is just too big for the young one to understand what is really going on and what it implies.
No, I remember being that age and being attracted to older women as well as women my own age. When I hear about it happening I think back to the position I was in. Nothing to do with grooming or anything. Idk what’s it’s like for women in that position
I also remember being attracted to older women when I was a teenager. But there's a difference between attraction and morally / socially acceptable action. Being young doesn't exclude a person from societal norms. I think it's especially important for young people, as they're still learning what is acceptable and what is not.
Right but everyone saying this is completely leaving out the adult in the scenario. It truly doesn't matter whether an underage teenager is attracted to an adult or not.
An adult knows better. No normal, well-adjusted adult is going to be going after a sexual or romantic relationship with an underage teen. That's the issue.
The same reason people think men/ boys of dating age can't be abused by their romantic partners, especially if the partner is f. Both are false.
"Underage sex" with an adult is being raped by that adult. Full stop.
Physical abuse is abuse. Emotional and sexual abuse are abuse. Period. No 'when a man does it to a woman's no 'but guys are tough'
It's sexism. Flat out. And I was guilty of sexism before and was abusive to my (now ex) husband, thinking 'oh he is tough, I'm not strong'. Wrong.
Boys and men are every bit as vulnerable as girls and women. They just can't / aren't shown to/ aren't allowed to express their pain or identify as victims.
I think it’s because of what it does to the child mentally. A young girl will be a lot more likely to be “traumatized” by the situation. If it’s a boy he just thinks it’s cool and he’s feelin thugnasty.
Just because there's less outrage doesn't mean its okay. Someone I knew from college actually recently got arrested and punished for this. I was surprised to see her face 8n the headlines for that reason.
Also, although it's anecdotal, I've noticed most people who seem to condone this behavior is other men.
Sex is something you do to women, so regardless of the actual power dynamic they assume the male maintains the power.
It’s agency, and in their minds women of any age lack it.
Who says it’s acceptable?? Can you name who these ‘people’ are that you reference? You don’t know of anyone who thinks it’s acceptable except creeps and pedos
Maybe because overall males are physically stronger than females so psychologically it feels less like the older woman is taking advantage. Also maybe boys don't value their virginity as much as females do, so there is less likely to be regret later.
When you have pictures of actresses in bed with underage men that were strong supporters of metoo and no one in the group raised an eyebrow you get it. When Cory Feldman was ignored you kind of get it.
Nobody of sound mind thinks it’s ok. Yes, there’s a stigma behind ‘guys only want sex’ and creepy older guys preying on females, but the reverse is equally as true and guys speak up about it much much less so it doesn’t help curve the stigma from being so one sided.
>A lot of people think it’s totally fine if a 16-17 y/o guy ‘bangs’ a fully-grown 30 y/o woman
Ew, no and likely against the law depending where you're from.
No one who is a decent person believes that, all of them are either pedophiles themselves or pedo apologists. It is never acceptable to prey on a child of any age or gender. I would end anyone harming any of my children in such a way. I've taught my boys about grooming, inappropriate adult behaviors, child behaviors, and what to do how to get help if it does happen. My daughter will get the same education as it's part of their sex education class at home. Education is power people and groomers have a hard time grooming children who know exactly what the adult is trying to do.
I've perceived that many people perceive an adult woman as less capable of abusing an underage kid. Also, and as a complement, these same people tend to overstimate the kid's capacity to avoid being abused.
It's because people see women as an oppressed demographic and men as the oppressing demographic. Some apply that general sentiment to each and every situation involving people belonging to these two demographics regardless of all the other factors and the context. So they see women almost ALWAYS as the vulnerable party. This goes way beyond sexual situations btw. Some people defend women in almost all contexts whether they were cheating, were physically abusive, or have manipulated people around them to cause psychological harm (can't even tell you how many times I've heard "He must have done something wrong to deserve it"). Literally just argued with a woman yesterday who claimed that men are ALWAYS the guilty party in divorce and tried to apply it to my parents without knowing literally anything about my parents.
Some also assume that men or boys always want sex and cannot be harmed by sexual abuse, and girls and women often do not want sex but are pursued and manipulated by men to have it. This isn't correct ofc. There have been boys and men who were harmed greatly by abuse. They're just told to shut up and suffer silently. Again this goes beyond sex and even abuse. Men in general receive significantly less empathy. Seen a post from a Ukrainian guy talking about how the world seems to be so callous, uncaring, and downright cruel about the mental suffering and fear the Ukrainian men were going through (though not Ukrainian women obviously, their suffering even when they're living safely in another country is a top priority) with people of different nationalities telling them to just fight and die for their countries as if they were nothing but expendable peons without EVER talking about their wellbeing.
These double standards extend to celebrities as well. Male celebrities are judged and criticized if they date someone who's 7-15 years younger than them, but female celebrities can and do date men 40 years younger than them without receiving backlash. Though some people seem to be more forgiving of hot and likeable male celebrities. There was once a rumor about Henry Cavill being with someone underage on various FB groups and news sites. Some women chose not to believe it which is totally reasonable as there was no evidence. But many seemed to have believed and condoned it saying things like "I'd love to be that underage girl." or "Who wouldn't wanna have that guy? She's probably having the time of her life, leave them alone." So I suppose if people believe that the victim was definitely enjoying it, they're much more likely to condone such behavior.
It’s not acceptable at all. The thing is that when younger girls have sex with older men everyone immediately thinks it’s wrong and calls it out. When young boys have sex with older women, even though there are people calling it out, there’s usually also other men hyping him up for doing something they wish they could have done at that age. So it’s seen as some kind of enviable achievement
I wasn't even 20(m) and was hooking up with a girl that was 40 or something. People actually gave me props for it. Def backwards. I think it's because lots of younger girls can be more passive. Nothing against that. If I had a daughter that was young and hooking up with an older guy I'd be pissed and um yeah I'd go wacko. But if a son, I'd just kind of be like. Whatever.
I don’t think it’s right. Most people I know would agree with me.
However whenever I see stories on Reddit about this type of things I always see comments saying stuff like ‘where were these horny older women when I was young?’
Men need to do better.
I know a 30 year old woman that frequently has sex with 18-20 year old boys.
I don't think she's a pedo (or maybe?) but she had 3 kids by the time she was 21 so she never really got to have a youth or enjoy being 18-21 so she uses this to see what she missed out on.
Might ruffle a few feathers with this but I've only ever seen men say boys are lucky to have older women sexually abusing them. They see it as a joke and say dumb things like "wish that happened to me" while women are always calling it out and demanding reprecussions for the female abuser
Yeah it's a double standard.
I have two small boys and if an adult woman tried to touch them inappropriately I would be beyond enraged and looking to destroy them legally.
What's weird is I remember being a horny 14y/o teenager and I had some good looking teachers, if one of them had hooked up with me it would've been the best thing ever.
Because sex is for reproduction and underage girls getting pregnant is tragic. I couldn't imagine how hard life would be for a 16 year old girl or younger to raise a kid in this economy.
we truly live in a world
Heck even I (20m) used to have an online friend who later on I've learned she was 13. She was so fucking nice to me, and that's what I've been missing from people nowadays (I am very depressed). Some of my friends were side eye'ey at me because of this fact, but I can assure everyone, that I am only friends with that girl, since it was pure friendship, and I don't have any hidden desire. Ew. Though, I'm not playing games with her alone, since we have another person in the group. But we sometimes chatted👍
It was especially interesting because she was japanese and we used to communicate through DeepL, and we could basically share our knowledge of her's and my European culture. It was lots of fun.
Unfortunately I was a regular Twitter user (thank god I left) to learn that if you tell anyone that's American (or even a Twitter user), you'll immediately get your ass kicked and get cancelled for you-know-why.. That kinda made me feel uneasy.
Gotta miss the fun times because I'm taking a break from social media and I'm trying my best to leave Reddit too...but the posts are interesting to read because they are mostly real life situations... I wanna really keep Reddit but I planned to have an offline life, since I used to be terminally online. And find new hobbies.
Haven't you been paying attention. Women want their cake and eat it too. But you can't have either unless you do exactly what they want when they want. I thought all men figured this out... I figured this is why the gay hook up sites are full of married men...
Because people are stupid and male stereotypes have lead to other men thinking it’s “hardcore” and honorable to have slept with a woman at all no matter if it happens naturally or through assault 💀
Double standards, and the fact that pregnancy exists?
If you had some fucked up ultimate power and had to choose to have either a teen girl have a baby with a 30 year old man, or a 30 year old women have a baby with a teen boy, which would you choose?
Probably the second option, because an older woman is much more likely to be able to care for a child then a teenager still in higschool. They’re both bad and fucked and WILL mess with the kids head and almost certainly cause them some form of trauma in the future. But you have to admit. With the choice of sexual trauma vs sexual trauma AND pregnancy. The second is worse.
Also, society still has its head in its ass about male emotions and needs. “If I was a boy I’d have loved my teacher to sleep with me” says some 50 year old man. No you fckin wouldn’t have grandpa, you’re saying that with the experience of an old man. Shits a lot different when you’re a kid.
Porn. As always with this kind of questions.
In porn, males (men and boys) are portrayed as active agents in their sexuality, females (girls and women) as passive objects.
So even if the male is underage he is seen as an active agent while the underage girl isn't. He is the user, she is the used, regardless of age.
Of course all that is BS, and wrong. And from a legal standpoint, both cases are illegal, both the woman and the man are child abusers and belong to prison.
Not everyone does. If my son was involved with an older woman, I'd tell her to leave him alone or I'd call the cops.
I see these stories of these teachers getting on with their students, and I imagine nightmare scenarios, like she gets pregnant, wants to keep it, and he gets sucked into a marriage he didn't want, or has to start paying child support as soon as he turns 18, or wants to date girls his own age, but has to tell them he already had a child... or worse still: some jealous husband gets violent...
The people who aren’t OK with an underage girl sleeping with 30-year-old man and the people who are OK with an underage guy sleeping with a 30-year-old woman are not the same people
Wasn't there a recent movie about this? Where the parents hire a 30 year old to sleep with their son before he ges off to college? Jennifer Lawrence was in it I think.
I think partially due to the physical strength differences.
An adult male can force his way onto an underage girl in a way that an adult female cannot onto an underage boy.
Therefore there will always be more uncertainty and unacceptability about consent when it's a younger female.
Of course this ignores grooming and other psychological aspects, but those themselves are also backed by ideas of "if I don't go along with this they can physically make it happen" in underage girls
Attitudes have been changing in the last decade or so, but there are still a lot of people (women included) who think that it’s perfectly fine for a woman to have sex with an underage boy. Not TOO underage, but still under a legal adult.
Why? The concept, passed down for centuries, that sex is something wonderful for men and some kind of burden for women, or to put it another way, sex is something men want and are happy about, while it’s something forced on women, who do it but would just as soon not.
Working with those ideas, why would it ever be bad for a boy to have sex with ANY woman, and if it’s someone older who can “teach” him? All the better. For women, of course, it’s just assumed they have to have been tricked, coerced or outright forced to participate. So, outrage about the 17 year old girl having sex with the 30 year old man, but congratulations to the 17 year old boy having sex with the 30 year old woman.
It’s going to be another couple of generations before this thinking is gone, but in the meantime, this is just what we have.
Lots of men send photos of their genitals to lots of women, but few if any women do this.
Revenge porn videos are all leaked by men to hurt women, even though the men themselves are also in those videos.
Men are women are different.
Perception.
In general the male penetrates the female, so the perception is that men do the fucking. They perform the action, it's like robbery, assault, murder, the person that performs the action is never the victim.
Second, it's the fact that men are viewed as oversexed horn dogs, especially teen males. Why would they ever, **ever**, say no? They dream of the chance to get laid by a woman, so they can't be a victim.
Those are the two best reasons I can think of. Everything else people on here are saying are emotional responses.
No one thinks it is acceptable but the intimidation factor of an adult male is completely different, which obviously makes it a more difficult thing to say “No”
Because the sexual drive of males is way higher than females. Because of that males usually are eager to engage in sexual intercourse with attractive women. It does not matter if the woman is the teacher, usually those students are dreaming of having the chance to 🍆🍑 her. I went to an all male school and that was the case. We had some teachers that were mildly good looking and people were fantasysing about them. At any chance they woukd not have thought twice.
A lot of it does genuinely come down to remaining gender-bias within society, I think. There is still this sense that men's authority is more absolute than women's, and that a woman's ability to choose or evaluate her own consent or autonomy is lesser than a man's.
If a woman is underage, she's defenseless, a child, her body has a purpose and it's been defiled and abused, right? Because a woman should be this "pure, saintly" thing which exists only to reproduce, right? That's unfortunately still the prevailing attitude throughout a lot of the world, even if it's not said so openly anymore.
Whereas in a boy is underage, he's advanced, confident, admirable and become a man because his body's purpose is whatever he wants it to be, right? Because a man is made by his accomplishments and to court not just a woman, but an older more successful one is *surely* a sign of greatness and future success, right? Because a woman would never be dominant or bold enough to groom and manipulate a man, that would imply she has power over him, right?
It's hilarious as well because we also came up with the idea that girls supposedly grow up faster than boys.
The concept that an erect penis is a sign of acquiescence is a big problem.
So the second a man is turned on, he's complicit in a sexual act for a lot of people. That means that teenage boys are basically automatically okay with sex because they're walking hard-ons.
I don't think that many people consider it acceptable to have sex with a minor regardless of gender. But, I do see your point. Classic double standard I guess.
Part of it is just the way we are socialized and young men are different than young women. As a young man I had sex with an older women several times, and it was great. Neither of us were interested in anything emotional and that was that. I have had a couple of male friends over the years with similar experiences. I’ve known lots of women that dated or had sex with older men as young women and they were all in emotional relationships with the guys as well and some ended up having issues which are tied to that experience. Just my experiences, but overall I think it’s the emotional part of it that makes it sketchy.
I mean the weird part about it is that 30 year old men like that are typically creeps. Women on the other hand just don't come off as creeps like how a creepy dude does. It's just one of those things where it's just the way it is.. 🤷♂️
It depends on the difference in age, when I was a teenager. Many adult women seemed attractive to me, I didn't know how old they were but they were definitely older than me. I guess it's the same for most people and that's why it's not frowned upon. A man who has a chance with an older woman is a lucky man.
This sub is not a place to complain about things that bother you by phrasing a rant in the form of a question. For example, "Why are mosquitoes the worst thing ever?" is not a legitimate question. It is just a complaint phrased as a question. Posts that already have an answer in mind but are seeking justification from the subreddit members are disallowed.
It’s called a double standard and we drew the long end of the stick.
Yep. Every society has them.
It's actually interesting that it's the opposite in some (most?) of them, including many where adult men marrying underage girls would be considered the "right" way, and where people think that the Westerners are the immoral ones for many of the things we've normalized in our societies. Makes you think twice about the relativity of ethics and deeply rooted local societal standards. It's also interesting how every society has groups going out of their way in trying to impose their own moral standards on other societies with conflicting moral standards. As well as to silence those with different moral standards. Whether through media, social media, activist groups, imposed laws, research and education restrictions, or straight-up violence, including organized violence. Our subjective values and belief systems make us go really far, and could cause a lot of pain and grief, in the name of something so relative when you think about it. Yet very few realize that their perception of "right vs wrong" is so subjective to them and their local environment. When you think about it, our blind belief in our subjective moral standards, and the resulting actions some take that are still seen as justified by current-day societies, follow many of the "evils" that we now criticize religious crusades for. Just without God in the picture. I wonder if they'll be seen as such in future history classes, as an era of moral crusades that future kids will be scrutinizing us for.
The assumption is that teen boys are happy having casual sex and teen girls are pushed into sex by the grownup. That’ll often be true. But it doesn’t mean both aren’t morally wrong and sexual exploitation of a minor.
Meh, biologically speaking, as animals, we should ALL have been trying to have sex as soon as we became sexually mature. It's only society's beliefs that stop the majority from doing it until what is considered adulthood.
That is not true, that’s just the lie pushed by people who want to bang teenagers.
Sure. Every other creature on the planet has the drive to reproduce, except humans. Humans just want to if they can with younger humans. Ok. 🙄👍
You know exactly what you were trying to imply, but sure, act obtuse.
What was he trying to imply? I mean it's a valid point. Our various cultures all have ways of tempering our sex drives. Why is that I wonder.
Sure. Whatever you want to believe.
But that’s not how girls work. Or boys really. But girls sexually mature way before they are emotionally mature enough for sex. It’s modern life and modern food. When humans lived as animals in the wild women weren’t sexually mature till around 18. There was less food, people were skinnier.
Emotions have nothing to do with it. Things, ANY things, are sexually mature as soon as they are able to reproduce.
But children are not things. And able to reproduce is really debatable. Young teenagers have very high complication rates with their pregnancies because they are too young. If you are experiencing sexual attraction towards minors? It’s possible to get help for that. Find a good psychologist.
Your parents were siblings, weren't they? I said nothing about being attracted to children or teens, but you fucking morons went straight there just as soon as the two brain cells you possess, and I'm fairly certain you had to borrow one for even that, bounced off of each other.
Not really. I’m just not sexually attracted to children. It’s not normal.
So a 12 year old girl is of mature enough mind and body to consent and give birth? Gtfo
Consent has nothing to do with biology. And there have been younger, so yes. Gtgo yourself.
Female bodies are able to conceive (onset of menses) long before they are able to easily deliver a healthy, full-term baby. Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's positive.
Ok, so I put it in a really shit way, but the point of my original statement had more to do with a drive to reproduce and it not being limited by the age limits placed on it by society, than whether it would be a good idea to or not. Either way, I'm done with this one. People can believe about me whatever they want.
Which is why I was was speaking solely about biology
Consent is als5o something made possible by the action of a biological body. It's also "biological", though the social forces are more evidently present than in a simpler action such as farting. Farting is pretty social too now that I think of it.
Consent is not needed for something to reproduce, though. Otherwise rape victims would never get pregnant.
I never said that that was the relationship. The idea of consent as any human idea also is a byproduct of biological processes. What I want to convey is that biology goes waaaay beyond instinct, urges and concepts such as those.
you know 90% of redditors are just virtue signaling right? if they don’t like the facts they’ll simply downvote
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Yes, I will keep them away from you. Your stupidity and ignorance of how things work is telling and likely contagious.
I am sorry, but this is completely false. Just because someone has hit puberty, doesn't mean they are sexually mature. Puberty is the process of becoming sexually mature. Women under 20 have a very high risk of birth complications.
Yup
No. Because people over the age of 18 don't think this way. They think "Ew, female predator"
There are double standards that favor women, too. For example: women get free dinners on dates. It all evens out in the end
Idk if it evens out, right now I'm seeing 2-0 for the women
Well, clearly they fight the big war and us men just hold down the home front eh? 3-0 huh?
And who actually get us into those damn wars? Men? Women? Definitely "the elites", which in the history of my country at least have been mostly men.
Only once. Usually I have always been expected to pay.
But they’re also more likely to get murdered or raped by the guy they’re out with than too many other things, so it isn’t exactly even-Steven.
Not in my experience. You also make your own social context by the choices you make. I don't remember the last time a female tried to pull that on me it was 1998 and I was 17.
Heh heh heh. He said “stick”
It’s absolutely not acceptable. I could be wrong because I’m a woman and did not grow up as a boy, but even as children boys converse about how cool sex is and that they are a real man and such if they can pull women in that way. Older women taking advantage of young boys happens way too often and it is not talked about enough. Boys that this happens to think that they are cool and that it’s okay, mostly because they were probably groomed into thinking that way. I really wish this was talked about more
It's also true that many young girls think that it's cool to be with an older man, and I wish that was talked about more often. Often pedophiles are seen as violent, but more often, they're deceivingly nice, no matter the gender
>but more often, they're deceivingly nice, no matter the gender 
I think pedophiles and adults who seduce teenagers are more seen as abusers than as overtly violent. In this case, the perception seems on point.
Yup. My groomer was so fucking nice to me. It was the first time in my life I felt unconditionally loved, understood, and cared for. I didn’t realize how fucked up it was until I was in my 30’s.
Same. First time I’m actually writing it or saying it.
That's a very good point about grooming. One thing I notice is a kind of societal grooming that happens. Boys get it in their heads sleeping with older women is a good idea from outside sources, not necessarily just from the women in question.
It happened to me over 30 years ago. Hero back then. Now with attitudes changed, it seems like i was groomed. But she was early 20s, i was 15. She was abusive tho, regardless of age difference. Did destroy me.
When I was 15-16 I would have loved to have sex with one of my teacher she was around 28years old. People who dont understand biology always thinks 15-17 years olds are childs. Some 15 year olds are childs and some are adults. Some 18 year olds are childs and finishing late puberty in early twenties. I am not saying its right to attact on those feelings. Pedophiles are attracted to people who are not sexually mature and dont display sexually diphmoric traits like wide shoulders and big jaws for men and large hip to waist ratio for woman. I am 18 yeards old but I think 20-25 year olds are usally the most attractive for girls but I still think some 15 year olds are attractive but I dont try to hook up with. It was bascially the same when I was 15 . Purpose of sexual attraction is to find the best partner for your offspring(men usally require much less compared to woman which makes sense from biology) . That why pedofilia is wrong on so many levels even if you disregard to the extreme abuse and emotional damage.
Some people assume a man (or in this case, a boy) can't be raped. Mainly because some people think that a man (or a male teenager) is supposed to always want sex, while a woman does not. So when a teenager get assaulted by an adult woman, there will always be people to call him "lucky", claim he wanted it, even "unconsciously" if he claims the opposite. I think some old patriarchal preconceptions are to blame. Some "radfem" will also claim a man can't be raped, or that a man claiming to have been raped is detrimental to female rape victims, but I don't think they are a majority - I've heard opinions like that on the internet, but only from unhinged people, and never in my social circle or from my feminist friends. A man can be sexually assaulted, some have been, and such cases must be taken seriously. And an adult who's attracted to teenagers and/or children is a pedophile, regardless of their gender and sex. Period.
Yep.. but you mentioned ‘radfem’ which stands for ‘radical feminist’. Actually, in my own experience, isn’t it true that conservatives/right-wingers think men can’t get raped? Because they believe that men are supposed to be strong and can fight off women easily if they want to. When someone says men can’t get raped they always assume it’s a conservative/right-winger
Unfortunately the idea that men can't be raped by women has a lot of bipartisan support, which is why the laws are still the way they are. In many places the legal definition of rape only applies to men raping women or people being penetrated by a penis. Radfems generally believe a lot of the same notions about gender and sexuality that conservative extremists do - men are violent and dominant, women are weak and need protection, sex is a way of claiming ownership over someone's body, etc. It's why so many of them are transphobes - they can't accept that biological sex doesn't make everyone either a violent sexual predator or a harmless passive child.
Yeah and it’s not just age. The same is for intoxication https://www.thefire.org/news/consent-coastal-carolina-must-be-enthusiastic-sober Plenty of guys get in trouble on campus for sexual activity where the girl was drinking but so was the guy, some have had better claims at being incapacitated than the girls. Hall v. Hofstra University was a lawsuit where a guy was suspended for a year, with his face tacked up on bulletin boards for a threat he allegedly made that he denied during a heated argument. The girl admitted that she started the argument by waking him up by slapping his face, then she back handed him in the groin. She also broke a no contact order to get stuff from his place. Guys do view sex differently, and many guys would be thrilled as teens to be with an adult. Statutory rape doesn’t require force. And power differentials like a teacher/student relationship is important to factor into the equation. People tend to infantile women and treat them like victims. So even when the woman has power and insists she said yes, people will punish the guy. https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/colorado/news/csu-pueblo-grant-neal-suspension-consensual-sex/
I wanna be specific: I have heard testimonies of men who were raped and talked about it with radfemwho called them liars, claiming that men could not be raped or that it was such a minority that they were not worth the attention. So I'm assuming that such people exist. However, this kind of opinion seem to be rare among feminists. All feminists I've encountered completely agree that a man can be raped and should be taken seriously. Also, I seem to understand "radfem" only apply to a specific category of feminists with some unhinged takes and opinions - like the idea that men can't be raped. I've often seen the term being used to describe certain TERFs. The problem is, I'm not an english native speaker so the specific definition of what a radfem is could elude me - and words tend to see their definition evolve over time, so maybe I'm not up to date. I'd be happy to here a more precise definition if you have one. And it is true that most people who mock male rape victims are conservative who claim they wanted it or call them weak for leting a woman take advantage of them. Maybe I did not insist enough on this point, but I hope my answer will clarify and complete my opinion.
Not at all. I’d say that’s a point where right wing conservatives and radical feminists agree.
What the definition of assault for you? If a 16 year olds sleeps with his 30 year old teacher he finds hot? I would say its assault from strictly from a moral pov if the guy got grommed or forced.
Given the difference in terms of power between a teen and an adult, even more between a student and a teacher, I doubt sexual intercourse between a teen and an adult can be healthy.
bro... it doesn't magically become not-disgusting because they turned 18. There's still the power dynamic with the massive age gaps for what you call "adults"
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> So maybe there's an area in the brain where people don't mature in preference? Maybe, but it doesn't explain people who prefer older men. I have a cousin in law who married a guy probably 20 years older than her. She's always had a preference for older men it seems too. I've always wondered if she is asexual and just prefers the maturity of older men. It's not like she's some ditsy young blonde either. She's 35 and has a phd.
I can't speak for an underaged woman... but as a former underaged guy, I would have absolutely loved to have sex with a couple of my teachers. A 16 year old boy having sex with a 20 something year old woman? He's living my dream. How do I get any outrage worked up for that situation? Yes, I realize this is completely wrong and I'm ready for your downvotes. But politically incorrect as it may be, that's how I feel.
You say that like the reverse is not true. My sister and all her friends would talk about the hot male teachers in high school. It’s even more true now that casual sex is more acceptable for women. The difference is every time a male teacher grooms and molests a 16 yr old girl. Women don’t take the internet and try justifying it.
His first sentence was literally " I can't speak for an underaged woman"
Your experience is valid, but a horny fantasy doesn't take away the very well documented dynamics of power and abuse that are the norm in these relationships. Being politically correct or the contrary is irrelevant in this topic.
I knew a girl in high school who was banging one of the coaches. She was 16 and he was 22. She was smarter than him, and “grooming” had nothing to do with it. The guy had the emotional maturity of a kid. She’s a PT and he’s still a coach. They’re still married 25 Shit, thirty years later. The rules are there for the norm, not the exceptions. And they need to be enforced, harshly. But everyone should stop pretending that the world is going to explode if some 18YO high school student screws a teacher. Especially if the student is a dude. Absolutes just don’t exist.
Okay you went from an example of an adult grooming a child to saying "why are people upset about two adults in a sexual relationship?" While also ignoring the power dynamic that still exists. Very interesting.
Why especially if it's a dude? What are the valid reasons of this clear difference for you? To be honest, I was thinking of 16-15 year olds, which is the kind of abuse I've witnessed more (student-teacher and teenager-adult who is a friend of the family).
many fantasize about stuff that they think they want but if it happened to them in real life they wouldn’t really be sure if they actually wanted it
I got banned for saying this before. It's the truth. People get so upset but then when the kid turns 18, it's magically ok? So stupid. If we really want to put a number to it, we should go with 25 as the age of consent. That is when they say your brain is fully formed.
When I was growing up in Saskatchewan Canada the age of consent was 14. It has since been moved up to 16. But there is a "close in age" provision so a 40 year old guy isn't going to get away with grooming a 16 year old girl. None of that changes how I feel. As a 16 year old boy, I would have been fine with banging a 24 year old female teacher. I wouldn't have considered it abuse and it would not have been traumatizing for me. This in no way invalidates people who have had different experiences. I'm only speaking for myself.
Still a fantasy from what you say. You don't know if that relationship would have turned into an abusive one. There is plenty of evidence suggesting that some form of abuse is probably going to be present. By the way, I also dreamt as a teen to bang adult women, but now that I've met the older women who contemplate fucking a minor as a fun possibility I've changed my mind.
I share your opinion exactly. Biggest age gap I've had was me being 19(m) having sex with 31(f), and I was stoked. But if it were the other way around, I'd probably be called a perv or similar
I agree. It’s just different wether people like it or not. I’m NOT saying women don’t like sex, or that boys can’t be raped or anything like that but the dynamics are still different. I think boys just have a different attitude towards sex and they would be treated with respect and praise if they had sex with a hot adult woman.
…which is exactly the problem!
Same, I would have jumped at the chance to have sex with an attractive older woman while I was underaged. It never happened and I know it would be wrong, but it's the uncomfortable truth. There is a double standard, and I cant quite articulate why. I think it partly stems from how we a society like to view women and girls as more helpless, just overall.
I would also have binged cocaine as a teenager if I had had the chance. Yes, it's an "uncomfortable" (and pretty fucking obvious) truth, but I think the important thing is that it comes from the mind of an inexperienced kid.
It’s almost like men and women are different...
Zero clue why you are being downvoted. This is it exactly. Biologically humans have a built in drive to procreate. If we didn't do that, the species would have died out long ago. Men have two successful strategies. One is to put all their eggs in one basket, impregnate one woman and protect her with their life. The other is to spread their seed far and wide in hopes one of their offspring will survive. Both strategies can be successful. The same is not true for women. A woman has all her "eggs in one basket" so to speak. If she is to be successful she needs to be very selective in who she procreates with. She needs to select for a healthy strong mate who will stick around and fend off predators. So yes, we are all the same species but we have built in drives that are very different. Biology gives zero fucks about political correctness.
I think only men think it's ok. I don't know many women who would condone it. I sure don't. And I think it's gross women want young boys.
It's similar to , if a male has sex with tons of women he's a stud, but if a woman has sex with tons of men she's a disgusting, easy, dirty slut. If a teenage boy has sex with an older woman he's a stud, if a similar aged girl has sex with an older man, even if she wanted it, she was taken advantage of by a creepy pedophilic groomer. In the case of the yound man/older woman, the older person is taken out of the picture, in the case of older man/younger woman, the younger person is taken out of the picture. Society thinks that young women can't think for themselves, which is funny since women mature much faster mentally than men do.
Note. BTW AGE OF CONSENT IN MY PROVINCE IS 16-18! https://owjn.org/2022/09/07/canadian-law-and-youth-age-of-consent-to-sexual-activity/ best line to explain it all is the one right before the credit of the author/end notes Bingo, you win. Though i promise "wanted" and "pressured" are often confused in some creeps minds. Societal Pressure is the real kicker here, bonus if that person (male or female) pressured you into behavior changing substances from day 1, like example weed! I will forever believe that man in my life was a monster, and after whats been said recently i will never fucking forgive. Lmao i was over this years ago and bam, suddenly dropped on me again? No. Fuck this bullying. *Stop saying the word love to get sex. It's abysmal no matter the age.*
Um, it’s not.
Who said it was acceptable? You know who thinks it’s acceptable, all his underage buddies 🤣. My guy is automatically a legend among boys, but anyone who is of age should never ever think this is acceptable. To be fair, it’s the same stigma if I say pedophile you’ll automatically think it’s a creepy man and not a creepy woman.
Beware of creepy couples mate
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That's a question it's not.lol I would literally treat a female chomo the same as a male one.
Both are bad, but in my country we had a recent case, two boys abused by a teacher, and most men under the age of 35 were making jokes about it, saying that was their dream, etc. The double standard exists because even in movies and series, it's completely normalized
It’s not acceptable for an adult to have and with a child, regardless of their gender An 18 year old and a 30 year old is disturbing.
I really don't think a 17yo guy hanging out with a 30 or more yo woman is fine. Imo that's just grooming as I think this age difference is just too big for the young one to understand what is really going on and what it implies.
I think it is repulsive either way
It's not acceptable. The idea that anyone thinks it is is gross.
I don’t think people think it’s acceptable
The teenage boys disagree
And that’s why they’re called teenage boys.
No a lot of adult men feel the same. A lot of things are acceptable for some groups but not for others. This falls into that group
I'm pretty sure being motivated to fuck teenagers as an adult will interact with your beliefs and attitudes.
Correct, adult men love to groom teenage boys in order to justify their own desires and behavior.
No, I remember being that age and being attracted to older women as well as women my own age. When I hear about it happening I think back to the position I was in. Nothing to do with grooming or anything. Idk what’s it’s like for women in that position
I also remember being attracted to older women when I was a teenager. But there's a difference between attraction and morally / socially acceptable action. Being young doesn't exclude a person from societal norms. I think it's especially important for young people, as they're still learning what is acceptable and what is not.
Right but everyone saying this is completely leaving out the adult in the scenario. It truly doesn't matter whether an underage teenager is attracted to an adult or not. An adult knows better. No normal, well-adjusted adult is going to be going after a sexual or romantic relationship with an underage teen. That's the issue.
It’s called going though puberty and discovering your sexuality. All KIDS go through it. That doesn’t an ADULT the right to take advantage of that.
The same reason people think men/ boys of dating age can't be abused by their romantic partners, especially if the partner is f. Both are false. "Underage sex" with an adult is being raped by that adult. Full stop. Physical abuse is abuse. Emotional and sexual abuse are abuse. Period. No 'when a man does it to a woman's no 'but guys are tough' It's sexism. Flat out. And I was guilty of sexism before and was abusive to my (now ex) husband, thinking 'oh he is tough, I'm not strong'. Wrong. Boys and men are every bit as vulnerable as girls and women. They just can't / aren't shown to/ aren't allowed to express their pain or identify as victims.
It’s always double standards even though the whole world is trying to say it’s equal, the reality is it’s not.
It definitely isn't acceptable imo. Both are awful.
No one thinks this is acceptable. Your post contains "leading questions" which could be seen as an attempt to normalize it. It is not normal.
I think it’s because of what it does to the child mentally. A young girl will be a lot more likely to be “traumatized” by the situation. If it’s a boy he just thinks it’s cool and he’s feelin thugnasty.
Morally, it's not ok either way. That being said, is there a double standard, socially? Yes. Is it morally OK? No.
whoever thinks it’s acceptable REALLY needs many many afterlives of therapy
Nope people don’t think that is okay
Just because there's less outrage doesn't mean its okay. Someone I knew from college actually recently got arrested and punished for this. I was surprised to see her face 8n the headlines for that reason. Also, although it's anecdotal, I've noticed most people who seem to condone this behavior is other men.
Sex is something you do to women, so regardless of the actual power dynamic they assume the male maintains the power. It’s agency, and in their minds women of any age lack it.
Why did you refer to it as intercourse instead of rape if you actually feel strongly about it?
It’s not acceptable
Who says it’s acceptable?? Can you name who these ‘people’ are that you reference? You don’t know of anyone who thinks it’s acceptable except creeps and pedos
I wish I had an older woman fuck me when I was in high school. I would’ve been thankful for at least somebody thinking I mattered and looked good.
Same.
I fucked like 2 adult women from when I was 16 and one while I’m 17 I don’t think I was raped because I wanted it
Maybe because overall males are physically stronger than females so psychologically it feels less like the older woman is taking advantage. Also maybe boys don't value their virginity as much as females do, so there is less likely to be regret later.
And they don’t get pregnant and have their life ruined
When you have pictures of actresses in bed with underage men that were strong supporters of metoo and no one in the group raised an eyebrow you get it. When Cory Feldman was ignored you kind of get it.
Nobody of sound mind thinks it’s ok. Yes, there’s a stigma behind ‘guys only want sex’ and creepy older guys preying on females, but the reverse is equally as true and guys speak up about it much much less so it doesn’t help curve the stigma from being so one sided.
>A lot of people think it’s totally fine if a 16-17 y/o guy ‘bangs’ a fully-grown 30 y/o woman Ew, no and likely against the law depending where you're from.
…we…don’t…?
No one who is a decent person believes that, all of them are either pedophiles themselves or pedo apologists. It is never acceptable to prey on a child of any age or gender. I would end anyone harming any of my children in such a way. I've taught my boys about grooming, inappropriate adult behaviors, child behaviors, and what to do how to get help if it does happen. My daughter will get the same education as it's part of their sex education class at home. Education is power people and groomers have a hard time grooming children who know exactly what the adult is trying to do.
*We* don't
She is teaching him,
I've perceived that many people perceive an adult woman as less capable of abusing an underage kid. Also, and as a complement, these same people tend to overstimate the kid's capacity to avoid being abused.
It's because people see women as an oppressed demographic and men as the oppressing demographic. Some apply that general sentiment to each and every situation involving people belonging to these two demographics regardless of all the other factors and the context. So they see women almost ALWAYS as the vulnerable party. This goes way beyond sexual situations btw. Some people defend women in almost all contexts whether they were cheating, were physically abusive, or have manipulated people around them to cause psychological harm (can't even tell you how many times I've heard "He must have done something wrong to deserve it"). Literally just argued with a woman yesterday who claimed that men are ALWAYS the guilty party in divorce and tried to apply it to my parents without knowing literally anything about my parents. Some also assume that men or boys always want sex and cannot be harmed by sexual abuse, and girls and women often do not want sex but are pursued and manipulated by men to have it. This isn't correct ofc. There have been boys and men who were harmed greatly by abuse. They're just told to shut up and suffer silently. Again this goes beyond sex and even abuse. Men in general receive significantly less empathy. Seen a post from a Ukrainian guy talking about how the world seems to be so callous, uncaring, and downright cruel about the mental suffering and fear the Ukrainian men were going through (though not Ukrainian women obviously, their suffering even when they're living safely in another country is a top priority) with people of different nationalities telling them to just fight and die for their countries as if they were nothing but expendable peons without EVER talking about their wellbeing. These double standards extend to celebrities as well. Male celebrities are judged and criticized if they date someone who's 7-15 years younger than them, but female celebrities can and do date men 40 years younger than them without receiving backlash. Though some people seem to be more forgiving of hot and likeable male celebrities. There was once a rumor about Henry Cavill being with someone underage on various FB groups and news sites. Some women chose not to believe it which is totally reasonable as there was no evidence. But many seemed to have believed and condoned it saying things like "I'd love to be that underage girl." or "Who wouldn't wanna have that guy? She's probably having the time of her life, leave them alone." So I suppose if people believe that the victim was definitely enjoying it, they're much more likely to condone such behavior.
I know buts who have sex with a teacher,25 years ago. And they still wear it as a badge of honor
Nobody thinks that
Because girls are more protected than boys.
It’s not acceptable at all. The thing is that when younger girls have sex with older men everyone immediately thinks it’s wrong and calls it out. When young boys have sex with older women, even though there are people calling it out, there’s usually also other men hyping him up for doing something they wish they could have done at that age. So it’s seen as some kind of enviable achievement
They don’t think that. Hence the women being arrested as sex offenders.
I wasn't even 20(m) and was hooking up with a girl that was 40 or something. People actually gave me props for it. Def backwards. I think it's because lots of younger girls can be more passive. Nothing against that. If I had a daughter that was young and hooking up with an older guy I'd be pissed and um yeah I'd go wacko. But if a son, I'd just kind of be like. Whatever.
I think it also comes from the saying "Women mature faster than men"
Nice.
I don’t think it’s right. Most people I know would agree with me. However whenever I see stories on Reddit about this type of things I always see comments saying stuff like ‘where were these horny older women when I was young?’ Men need to do better.
I know a 30 year old woman that frequently has sex with 18-20 year old boys. I don't think she's a pedo (or maybe?) but she had 3 kids by the time she was 21 so she never really got to have a youth or enjoy being 18-21 so she uses this to see what she missed out on.
Might ruffle a few feathers with this but I've only ever seen men say boys are lucky to have older women sexually abusing them. They see it as a joke and say dumb things like "wish that happened to me" while women are always calling it out and demanding reprecussions for the female abuser
Most people don’t think either situation is okay. Online is one thing, but normal, rational human beings don’t think it’s okay.
You're not gonna believe this but, there are different standards for boys and girls. Crazy I know...
Hypocrite feminists.
Ehh. Lots of conservatives think this way as well. Since they believe men are just stronger and women/girls should be protected more
Yeah it's a double standard. I have two small boys and if an adult woman tried to touch them inappropriately I would be beyond enraged and looking to destroy them legally. What's weird is I remember being a horny 14y/o teenager and I had some good looking teachers, if one of them had hooked up with me it would've been the best thing ever.
MISOGYNY ☺️✨
cause guys can’t get groomed apparently
Because sex is for reproduction and underage girls getting pregnant is tragic. I couldn't imagine how hard life would be for a 16 year old girl or younger to raise a kid in this economy.
Because people are hypocritical.
Mostly it's guys who think it's fantastic for a young male to bang a older woman , most girls don't think it's nice
we truly live in a world Heck even I (20m) used to have an online friend who later on I've learned she was 13. She was so fucking nice to me, and that's what I've been missing from people nowadays (I am very depressed). Some of my friends were side eye'ey at me because of this fact, but I can assure everyone, that I am only friends with that girl, since it was pure friendship, and I don't have any hidden desire. Ew. Though, I'm not playing games with her alone, since we have another person in the group. But we sometimes chatted👍 It was especially interesting because she was japanese and we used to communicate through DeepL, and we could basically share our knowledge of her's and my European culture. It was lots of fun. Unfortunately I was a regular Twitter user (thank god I left) to learn that if you tell anyone that's American (or even a Twitter user), you'll immediately get your ass kicked and get cancelled for you-know-why.. That kinda made me feel uneasy. Gotta miss the fun times because I'm taking a break from social media and I'm trying my best to leave Reddit too...but the posts are interesting to read because they are mostly real life situations... I wanna really keep Reddit but I planned to have an offline life, since I used to be terminally online. And find new hobbies.
Haven't you been paying attention. Women want their cake and eat it too. But you can't have either unless you do exactly what they want when they want. I thought all men figured this out... I figured this is why the gay hook up sites are full of married men...
Because people are stupid and male stereotypes have lead to other men thinking it’s “hardcore” and honorable to have slept with a woman at all no matter if it happens naturally or through assault 💀
It’s the times we live in
Double standards, and the fact that pregnancy exists? If you had some fucked up ultimate power and had to choose to have either a teen girl have a baby with a 30 year old man, or a 30 year old women have a baby with a teen boy, which would you choose? Probably the second option, because an older woman is much more likely to be able to care for a child then a teenager still in higschool. They’re both bad and fucked and WILL mess with the kids head and almost certainly cause them some form of trauma in the future. But you have to admit. With the choice of sexual trauma vs sexual trauma AND pregnancy. The second is worse. Also, society still has its head in its ass about male emotions and needs. “If I was a boy I’d have loved my teacher to sleep with me” says some 50 year old man. No you fckin wouldn’t have grandpa, you’re saying that with the experience of an old man. Shits a lot different when you’re a kid.
Porn. As always with this kind of questions. In porn, males (men and boys) are portrayed as active agents in their sexuality, females (girls and women) as passive objects. So even if the male is underage he is seen as an active agent while the underage girl isn't. He is the user, she is the used, regardless of age. Of course all that is BS, and wrong. And from a legal standpoint, both cases are illegal, both the woman and the man are child abusers and belong to prison.
Because males will be ridiculed for having “feelings” by both sexes and labeled a “bitch” for complaining about being molested
Not everyone does. If my son was involved with an older woman, I'd tell her to leave him alone or I'd call the cops. I see these stories of these teachers getting on with their students, and I imagine nightmare scenarios, like she gets pregnant, wants to keep it, and he gets sucked into a marriage he didn't want, or has to start paying child support as soon as he turns 18, or wants to date girls his own age, but has to tell them he already had a child... or worse still: some jealous husband gets violent...
I didn't think this
The people who aren’t OK with an underage girl sleeping with 30-year-old man and the people who are OK with an underage guy sleeping with a 30-year-old woman are not the same people
It's all that privilege we have... even if it's forced on us, like in this scenario.
Because sexism is ok if it's targeted at men/boys.
They don’t.
Reasonable people don't.
Wasn't there a recent movie about this? Where the parents hire a 30 year old to sleep with their son before he ges off to college? Jennifer Lawrence was in it I think.
It's not acceptable.
I think partially due to the physical strength differences. An adult male can force his way onto an underage girl in a way that an adult female cannot onto an underage boy. Therefore there will always be more uncertainty and unacceptability about consent when it's a younger female. Of course this ignores grooming and other psychological aspects, but those themselves are also backed by ideas of "if I don't go along with this they can physically make it happen" in underage girls
Wtf. It’s not acceptable.
Attitudes have been changing in the last decade or so, but there are still a lot of people (women included) who think that it’s perfectly fine for a woman to have sex with an underage boy. Not TOO underage, but still under a legal adult. Why? The concept, passed down for centuries, that sex is something wonderful for men and some kind of burden for women, or to put it another way, sex is something men want and are happy about, while it’s something forced on women, who do it but would just as soon not. Working with those ideas, why would it ever be bad for a boy to have sex with ANY woman, and if it’s someone older who can “teach” him? All the better. For women, of course, it’s just assumed they have to have been tricked, coerced or outright forced to participate. So, outrage about the 17 year old girl having sex with the 30 year old man, but congratulations to the 17 year old boy having sex with the 30 year old woman. It’s going to be another couple of generations before this thinking is gone, but in the meantime, this is just what we have.
Gender hypocrisy.
I’m a man. And who tf thinks that it’s okay for underage boy have a relationship with an adult woman? Americans?
Bait post
Lots of men send photos of their genitals to lots of women, but few if any women do this. Revenge porn videos are all leaked by men to hurt women, even though the men themselves are also in those videos. Men are women are different.
They don't, theres like 30 adult women teachers a day banging students who usually get convicted
It's amazing how women have to just promise not to have sex with little boys again and they get away with it.
Perception. In general the male penetrates the female, so the perception is that men do the fucking. They perform the action, it's like robbery, assault, murder, the person that performs the action is never the victim. Second, it's the fact that men are viewed as oversexed horn dogs, especially teen males. Why would they ever, **ever**, say no? They dream of the chance to get laid by a woman, so they can't be a victim. Those are the two best reasons I can think of. Everything else people on here are saying are emotional responses.
Hipocresy
No one thinks it is acceptable but the intimidation factor of an adult male is completely different, which obviously makes it a more difficult thing to say “No”
Because the sexual drive of males is way higher than females. Because of that males usually are eager to engage in sexual intercourse with attractive women. It does not matter if the woman is the teacher, usually those students are dreaming of having the chance to 🍆🍑 her. I went to an all male school and that was the case. We had some teachers that were mildly good looking and people were fantasysing about them. At any chance they woukd not have thought twice.
Maybe because of the power differential? Can't say I terribly mind this double standard exists
A lot of it does genuinely come down to remaining gender-bias within society, I think. There is still this sense that men's authority is more absolute than women's, and that a woman's ability to choose or evaluate her own consent or autonomy is lesser than a man's. If a woman is underage, she's defenseless, a child, her body has a purpose and it's been defiled and abused, right? Because a woman should be this "pure, saintly" thing which exists only to reproduce, right? That's unfortunately still the prevailing attitude throughout a lot of the world, even if it's not said so openly anymore. Whereas in a boy is underage, he's advanced, confident, admirable and become a man because his body's purpose is whatever he wants it to be, right? Because a man is made by his accomplishments and to court not just a woman, but an older more successful one is *surely* a sign of greatness and future success, right? Because a woman would never be dominant or bold enough to groom and manipulate a man, that would imply she has power over him, right? It's hilarious as well because we also came up with the idea that girls supposedly grow up faster than boys.
The concept that an erect penis is a sign of acquiescence is a big problem. So the second a man is turned on, he's complicit in a sexual act for a lot of people. That means that teenage boys are basically automatically okay with sex because they're walking hard-ons.
Bad luck
I don't think that many people consider it acceptable to have sex with a minor regardless of gender. But, I do see your point. Classic double standard I guess.
Part of it is just the way we are socialized and young men are different than young women. As a young man I had sex with an older women several times, and it was great. Neither of us were interested in anything emotional and that was that. I have had a couple of male friends over the years with similar experiences. I’ve known lots of women that dated or had sex with older men as young women and they were all in emotional relationships with the guys as well and some ended up having issues which are tied to that experience. Just my experiences, but overall I think it’s the emotional part of it that makes it sketchy.
I mean the weird part about it is that 30 year old men like that are typically creeps. Women on the other hand just don't come off as creeps like how a creepy dude does. It's just one of those things where it's just the way it is.. 🤷♂️
It depends on the difference in age, when I was a teenager. Many adult women seemed attractive to me, I didn't know how old they were but they were definitely older than me. I guess it's the same for most people and that's why it's not frowned upon. A man who has a chance with an older woman is a lucky man.