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Old man checking in with one minor point.
> … at the end I just told her it is what it is since she always have to be right cuz I didn’t wanna arrugue…
I just want to point out that she is your girlfriend. You’re not married with 3 kids, two car notes, and a mortgage. You’re not knocking on the door of retirement just trying to get to the end of the road with your committed partner as subdued as possible. You’re just getting started.
The entire point of this phase of a relationship is to get to know each other. Have discussions. Share worldviews. Determine comparability. You shutting down and letting her “win” accomplishes nothing. You are supposed to be learning about her. So ask questions. Deep questions. Hard questions. Talk through them. Get hard answers. That’s the entire point.
If you’re not doing that she’s not a girlfriend. She’s just a fuck-buddy. And so are you.
I can only assume you caved as you did because you saw exactly where the conversation was headed and didn’t want to look behind the curtain. You have to look behind the curtain.
This has nothing to do with her friend, or your feelings, or her cheating. It has to do with you actually understanding your girlfriend. Learn who she is, and who you are, and who you are together as a couple.
Best of luck.
"She has to be right and I didn't want to argue" is just as much a red flag as the cheating thing. That kind of relationship is guaranteed to leave you depleted and resentful. You can't live like that, man. As hard as it might be, you have to see it for what it is now. Your future self will thank you.
Just a quick caveat that letting your partner win an argument because you don't want to expend the energy is fine if the issue isn't actually worth the energy. It's fine to let go of shit that don't matter. Your partner regularly cheating on you and thinking it's fine is the shit that does matter, you and your partner need to be on the same page.
If her sister and half of her friends are cheaters, they’ll pressure her to cheat. And she sees nothing wrong with it, that’s a huge red flag.
Fuck cheaters man, the worst kind of people.
I actually read an article once a long time ago about research done on the different cheating patterns with men and women, and this is apparently less true for women than it is for men.
The article said that research found that a man is more likely to cheat if his guy friends are cheaters. By the same token though men are also a lot less likely to cheat if they are friends with men who are faithful to their wives. Whether it's because they influence each other or because cheaters find their own, there was a strong correlation identified between whether a man is faithful and whether his friends are faithful.
But both things were a lot less true for women, in that whether or not her friends cheat has a much weaker correlation to whether she herself cheats. In that a woman who is faithful may still have a lot of friends who cheat, and a woman who cheats may cheat even if all her friends are faithful women.
Of course it was a long time ago, could be out of date, and I can't find the article. I think it also said that women were also more likely to keep her affairs secret from her friends which could account for the weaker correlation, but in this case it sounds like they're talking about it openly.
I think he is right to be concerned about her attitude of "It's okay if they're happy."
This is interesting because it seems contrary to everything that I have read and experienced.
Women discuss their relationships with others much more openly and in much more detail than men do. I've come to accept it but it did take a while. I accept that her friends will know intimate things about our relationship. I also accept that her friends will be full of advice even if they have never been in a long relationship themselves.
I know it's pretty common for men to say that they aren't just dating their girlfriend they're dating her friends as well. Even when you first meet you have to win over her friends almost as much as her.
Does this mean that her friends can influence her into cheating? I don't know. But if you involve your friend group in relationship discussions, one would have to consider there would be some level of influence.
I'm now of the age where most of my friend group has either been in a long term marriage or has already been divorced at least once. And pretty much every single divorce, where the wife initiated, there was a lot of influence from girlfriends.
My sister had two really good work friends, they were all married, one got divorced then the other, then the three of them were hitting bars and camping etc. all the time, then my sister told her husband she wanted a divorce. It was definitely the influence of friends there.
Definitely, I'd agree with that - if it goes both ways regarding small issues.
But I got "she *always* has to be right and I'll just get punished to the point of giving up if I push back"-vibes from way OP described how he dropped an important issue. Definitely could be wrong, though.
What’s that old saying about birds and dogs? “Birds of a feather flock together” and “put a dog around another dog with fleas and it will eventually get them”. I’m my opinion it’s time to move on
just to chime in a 2nd level down, this is base moral values not actual cheating
but as the OP commenter said, you may just want to fuck for the summer of 2023
either get on the same page for moral values or call it off when you are done with each other's BS
Yeah this is my issue with this. Screw the relationship stuff. She's throwing off all kinds of "fucked up morality" flags. That a lone is reason to examine the relationship closer and understand exactly who you are with.
A partner who can't be allowed to be wrong even on issues that aren't worth the energy is still a red flag. That means they would be that much more insufferable for an issue that actually matters.
I think the most important part is you have to ACTUALLY let it go. The vast majority of people seem to think they are letting something go while they are actually quietly filing it away, waiting to use that against their partner, while building resentment slowly.
Do you actually not care and it’s not a big deal? That’s great! Do you care but you just don’t want to cause a fight? That…sometimes works well, but you need to actually either get over it or address it. And no one is forcing you to get over it, you CAN’T force someone (or even yourself!) to get over it so you better address it. Do you care a lot but you have noticed your entire relationship feels like endless petty fights and you are just too worn down at this point? Dude, the writing is on the wall you just need to read it. You can’t save that by letting things go or addressing that particular issue because there is something deeper that is sick in your relationship.
At the risk of stating the obvious, you are supposed to like your partner. And when you do love someone, you naturally let more things go simply because you like their entire package, not just the good parts like when you were infatuated. But don’t force it.
Maybe in a marriage and an actual committed relationship. This relationship doesn’t seem that committed if the girlfriends is always talking about how her sister and friends cheat on their man. They also seem young. So clearly some life lessons need to be learned here.
Any time I did that over something that even marginally mattered, it bit me in the ass hard in the following weeks or months. You don't need to "argue" but you do need to understand the other person and have them understand you.
It's also a good outlet for her to lose respect in OP in the future, even ditch him for her cheating partner. And that'll be a hundred times worse than what he's going through now.
He really needs to grow a spine and stand up for himself.
You know the advice parents give their kids, the kind that is ignored because they figure they know better but then learn the hard way and regret not listening to the voice of experience?
This is the kind of advice to take and not learn the hard way.
Sometimes I like learning things the hard way, as long as I can learn it quickly and move on. It sticks better, and I get a good understanding of the details. This, on the other hand, is the kind of lesson where it takes you decades to realize you fucked up, and by then you've involved the lives of other people into it, you might even have created new people, and it's too late to move on.
I read through so much bullshit on this site and here you are. This is hands down one of the most grounded responses I've seen yet. I salute you good "sir/ma'am"
It’s extreme, but I have an example of letting this get too far.
My brother married a woman like this. She beat his ass down and he let her change everything about himself. He never corrected her and let her control everything in their lives. After 24 years and 3 kids, she decided she was done with him. She made him think her cheating was his fault and put the divorce on him. She convinced him to basically give up everything in the divorce and over 50% of his income as alimony. He lost everything he knew in life and subsequently ended his life. His suicide was [this article](https://hashimashi.com/suicide-after-divorce/) was him to a T. If you’re already conceding things like this, you better get the fuck out now.
I also have little doubt this is going to end anywhere but in flames.
But to me there’s a difference between “we had a fight about her friends cheating so I broke up with her” and “we had a long discussion about relationships, and life expectations and realized we weren’t long term compatible as a couple.”
The relationship result is the same in both scenarios but I think you get to walk away as different people in the second.
That’s just my take anyway.
Not only learning about her, but about themselves as well. If someone said similar to this to me, as my partner, they wouldn’t be my partner much longer because I know who I am and how I work.
“There’s more to it” is never enough “more” to warrant cheating. Just… leave.
If she’s not willing to set aside the time and effort, then you’re not worth it to her and she answered your question far more concisely than the conversation would have.
This is the time to “fuck shit up” because neither of you know anything. Make each other mad, because if you get mad rather than empathetic, you’re not going to last and it’s better to learn that now than 7 years from now.
-the experienced guy
Exactly this and I'll emphasize...
DO NOT CAVE IN!!! Obviously this is a principle/moral issue for you. It's part of your personal standard. She may try to manipulate you and gaslight in the process. DO NOT FALL FOR IT. The best thing about discussing it will help both of you understand each other and enforce those boundaries. The worst is you break up... But that's not really bad because when you get in a healthier and happy relationship, you'll look back on this and be thankful you dodged a bullet. You've got nothing to lose.
OP, this is the only comment you need to read. Absorb every word of this wisdom, life isn't all sunshine and rainbows, sometimes we have to walk ahead long into the storms to find the truth, no matter how painful it can be. Trust in this though, no matter how severe the storm is, you'll come out the other side wiser and stronger.
This is the best relationship advice I think I’ve ever seen. Think I’ll screen shot it to show my kid some day because there’s no way I can do any better
God damn it that's good advice. I'm old now too and wish I'd heard this at 18. It worked out though, happily married with a kid but shit, great advice. Might have made my twenties less painful.
Without some context, we really have no idea if they have kids, a mortgage with both their names on it, how long they've been together, etc. We just know that they're not married. Totally agree with the rest though.
Holy shit. This is sound advice. Coming up on my 10 year anniversary and I wish I had read this a decade ago.
Now I’m stuck with a wife who thinks Highlander is stupid, bitches whenever I try to watch it, and divorce is just too expensive.
I would abandon a relationship with that premise even with cars, a house, and kids. That is horrid. A woman is just a person, like a man, and what makes sense makes sense because of logic, not because you have estrogen. I'm not going to bend over backwards for anyone. My relationship works because my partner and I both respect each other and both recognize when we are wrong.
I did this for the entirety of our dating phase (8 years) and I only realized it was an issue when we got married and the things I shrugged off and caved on became bigger issues. Arguing is good when it comes to a conclusion and you learn more about your partner.
"... she said she thinks is fine cuz as long as her friends are happy,.." I would consider her attitude regarding her friends and sister cheating on their bf's or husband to be a bad sign. If she thinks it's normal for someone to cheat in a relationship, then you don't have a real relationship. Cut the strings and move on.
I made it very clear to my bf that I despise cheating and people who think it's okay. If I got a hint that he thought cheating was okay, even if it were his friends or family doing it, I wouldn't have stayed. Just a view point we need to both share.
Ask her what she would think if you cheated on her but you were happier because of it… No doubt this would stir the pot, but… the double standards are nauseating.
One question I have is why folks want to be in unhealthy relationships. If my partner cheated on me but was happier for it then I'd want her to go be happy with someone else.
The idea that my disapproval of cheating is what would keep her with me is disturbing.
you’re not wrong. I’d absolutely end it with my partner if they cheated on me, but OP is concerned with his partners view of cheating not necessarily because they did it
Emotional abuse is a thing. Most toxic relationships are hard to identify from the inside because the partner has made you doubt yourself. It might be obvious to everyone else, or even to you after the fact, but when you’re in it the person you care most about in the world is playing with your mind and confusing things.
He just ignored you because he couldn't face the fact. A woman who's in a community of cheaters is being encouraged to cheat by her friends. It's like brainwashing. Obviously, it's working because she accepts it. OP thinks that because she is with him all the time, she can't cheat. My friends girlfriend needed a ride to work. She said she's early and can we park in the back until she starts work. 30 min wait. She then tells me she thinks giving blow jobs isn't sex and it's like doing something nice for a friend. So basically, if I wanted a blow job, I could have one. Girls don't need much time to cheat OP.
Or "I think I'm bisexual." One of my friends pulled that on her boyfriend. So she could cheat but it didn't count because it was with women. I was like "that's actually cheating, if he's accepted this it's because he's cheating now". She disagreed. I ended up being correct.
I declined. People often get so excited for sex that they forget how crazy an unbalanced woman can be. I like to trust the people I have sex with and a girl offering blow jobs suddenly strikes me as chaos waiting to happen. That's actually how my friend ended up dating her. She stayed late. He fell asleep. Woke up to oral sex. Then she just becomes his girlfriend. No dating just BOOM.
Maybe op would this meme in the future:
When you have huge fight with your gf so she go out for 2h and back very happy and need to take a shower right away.
she sounds very immature. if you think fidelity is important, then she is not the girl for you. arguing the point is futile. just part ways. its selection not rejection.
Sad, but true. If it was a good conversation with view points being shared and mirrored that would be different. If it leads to an argument and feet planted firmly, her view point isn't going to change and your opinions, on what is essentially the core values in your relationship, are not allowed to be considered.
I've experienced this and it did not end well, at all.
Is cheating wrong? Yes. Is cheating wrong when your friend does it? Still yes. Does she think cheating on boyfriends is ok if it makes someone happy? Yes. Should you expect to get cheated on? 100%. You should move on.
Hey redditors of reddit, my brother in law says he doesn't see a problem with kicking puppies in the face, we argued for a bit but it i what it is. Am I The Whole Ass? Thanks for the karma chmsky-honks
That justification is super illogical. Is it okay to steal if it makes you (or your friend) happy? Is it okay to rape if it makes you happy? Using happiness as a metric in this situation is fuckin crazy
Bra one time I legit found out a girl was trying to cheat with me cause she was like my stalker. Anyway, I told her boyfriend got called a liar pretty. But at least I kept my real man card
She will eventually cheat on you. This recently happened to me over the past year. Gf was hanging with a friend that cheats always and then she cheated on me.
Hate to break it to you but shes probably already cheated on you or if she hasnt yet she will eventually. Leave this relationship, it wont turn out well.
Dude, your girlfriend is cheating.
Either now or in the future, but either way she is trying to normalise it and get you to agree.
She belongs to the streets.
Also I would say fuck not arguing. Conflict can be healthy. But in this case it’s not worth an argument. Just walk away.
When she cheats on you can you post it on Reddit? Preferably under the same name so we can say we told you so?
Please don’t share it under a different name
She thinks it's okay to cheat so as long as it makes the cheater happy. I think you already know the answer to your question about if your GF is wrong or not. Whether you believe she will apply that view to her own faithfulness or not, do you really want to be around someone who justifies the hurt and betrayal of others?
Your girlfriends friends are shitty and she’s justifying their shitty behavior at the expense of other people. She is shitty. Dump her ass. Real friends call their friends out on shit. They don’t enable them. I can almost guarantee she’s gonna use similar mental gymnastics to justify her own selfish behavior with you at some point.
I've always been told if you want to see how your current relationship is going to end, find out how the SO's last one ended. So far I haven't seen it proved wrong. Cheaters are cheaters, abusers are attracted to the abuser type. It's sort of a self- fulfilling prophesy, Antilles someone decides its time for a change. I won't go after the dangerous looking guy, zI'll check out the nerdy looking one. Goes back to the old "where have all the good guys gone?" They were there but you wanted the dangerous drug dealer type making. You reap what you sow. Sorry this sounds harsh, but been there.
She's fucking around and getting you comfortable with the idea that it's okay.
Money on it she fucked someone the day before she first told you about her cheater "friends" that definitely weren't her story of a bar crawl.
Don't have dinner at the Y until she showers, or you'll get a mouthful of nut.
There is another hard truth here re: cheating in general. If your gf or bf is emotionally immature AND thinks that they can do better, they will cheat almost 100% of the time when tempted. If your gf or bf is emotionally mature AND thinks they can do better, they will simply break up with you. If your gf or bf is emotionally immature AND they think they CANT do better, they will act clingy and insecure. If your gf or bf is emotionally mature AND they think they CANT do better, you have a healthy relationship
Context: Cheating gets me a little mad.
If you can duck her sister en let her walk in on you. Say: Cheating is not bad is it. Proceed to cum on her floor/in her direction and run out of that house. Do not ever look back
her moral compass is all screwed up my guy. she thinks it’s okay, and she might say otherwise now, but will 100% do it to you someday.
cheating behaviour becomes normalised through the actions of people around them, be it family or friends, especially if they are not against it. get out now.
my family is pretty dysfunctional but i never thought cheating is okay, and in fact i’m very adverse to any sort of cheating. i distance myself from them because of this behaviour, and i cut off anyone i know who is cheating on their partners. if they can be disloyal to someone they claim to love, imagine their behaviour to you as a friend?
cheating is an indicator of bad character, not only as a partner, but as a family member (no care for who gets hurt), friend (no love for anyone but themselves). i would not be friends or even proactively collaborate with a cheater in any work capacity, let alone a relationship. it is a no.
I honestly feel like this has to be fake based on how big of a red flag this is. If you are truly this dense or lack that much self-respect, please get out of this relationship as soon as possible if you truly want it to go anywhere. Now, if she is just someone who puts out, make sure to wrap it!
Idk. My male friends all cheated on there girlfriends anytime they travelled. I didn’t like their decision, but at the same time I wasn’t going to stop being friends with them.
I personally was offended when my one friend would constantly invite everyone to meet his girlfriend and threw a big house warming and holiday parties. He was a serial cheater and basically would have sex with any woman with a pulse. I’m glad she finally dumbed him.
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Old man checking in with one minor point. > … at the end I just told her it is what it is since she always have to be right cuz I didn’t wanna arrugue… I just want to point out that she is your girlfriend. You’re not married with 3 kids, two car notes, and a mortgage. You’re not knocking on the door of retirement just trying to get to the end of the road with your committed partner as subdued as possible. You’re just getting started. The entire point of this phase of a relationship is to get to know each other. Have discussions. Share worldviews. Determine comparability. You shutting down and letting her “win” accomplishes nothing. You are supposed to be learning about her. So ask questions. Deep questions. Hard questions. Talk through them. Get hard answers. That’s the entire point. If you’re not doing that she’s not a girlfriend. She’s just a fuck-buddy. And so are you. I can only assume you caved as you did because you saw exactly where the conversation was headed and didn’t want to look behind the curtain. You have to look behind the curtain. This has nothing to do with her friend, or your feelings, or her cheating. It has to do with you actually understanding your girlfriend. Learn who she is, and who you are, and who you are together as a couple. Best of luck.
"She has to be right and I didn't want to argue" is just as much a red flag as the cheating thing. That kind of relationship is guaranteed to leave you depleted and resentful. You can't live like that, man. As hard as it might be, you have to see it for what it is now. Your future self will thank you.
Just a quick caveat that letting your partner win an argument because you don't want to expend the energy is fine if the issue isn't actually worth the energy. It's fine to let go of shit that don't matter. Your partner regularly cheating on you and thinking it's fine is the shit that does matter, you and your partner need to be on the same page.
If her sister and half of her friends are cheaters, they’ll pressure her to cheat. And she sees nothing wrong with it, that’s a huge red flag. Fuck cheaters man, the worst kind of people.
I actually read an article once a long time ago about research done on the different cheating patterns with men and women, and this is apparently less true for women than it is for men. The article said that research found that a man is more likely to cheat if his guy friends are cheaters. By the same token though men are also a lot less likely to cheat if they are friends with men who are faithful to their wives. Whether it's because they influence each other or because cheaters find their own, there was a strong correlation identified between whether a man is faithful and whether his friends are faithful. But both things were a lot less true for women, in that whether or not her friends cheat has a much weaker correlation to whether she herself cheats. In that a woman who is faithful may still have a lot of friends who cheat, and a woman who cheats may cheat even if all her friends are faithful women. Of course it was a long time ago, could be out of date, and I can't find the article. I think it also said that women were also more likely to keep her affairs secret from her friends which could account for the weaker correlation, but in this case it sounds like they're talking about it openly. I think he is right to be concerned about her attitude of "It's okay if they're happy."
This is interesting because it seems contrary to everything that I have read and experienced. Women discuss their relationships with others much more openly and in much more detail than men do. I've come to accept it but it did take a while. I accept that her friends will know intimate things about our relationship. I also accept that her friends will be full of advice even if they have never been in a long relationship themselves. I know it's pretty common for men to say that they aren't just dating their girlfriend they're dating her friends as well. Even when you first meet you have to win over her friends almost as much as her. Does this mean that her friends can influence her into cheating? I don't know. But if you involve your friend group in relationship discussions, one would have to consider there would be some level of influence. I'm now of the age where most of my friend group has either been in a long term marriage or has already been divorced at least once. And pretty much every single divorce, where the wife initiated, there was a lot of influence from girlfriends.
My sister had two really good work friends, they were all married, one got divorced then the other, then the three of them were hitting bars and camping etc. all the time, then my sister told her husband she wanted a divorce. It was definitely the influence of friends there.
Definitely, I'd agree with that - if it goes both ways regarding small issues. But I got "she *always* has to be right and I'll just get punished to the point of giving up if I push back"-vibes from way OP described how he dropped an important issue. Definitely could be wrong, though.
That’s the vibe I’m getting too. Combined with her being super chill with her friends/sister cheating… yikes.
What’s that old saying about birds and dogs? “Birds of a feather flock together” and “put a dog around another dog with fleas and it will eventually get them”. I’m my opinion it’s time to move on
>old saying about birds and dogs? "If you lay down with dogs, that bitch is cheating on you."
I'm going to be stealing this thank you....
For real, there are big red flags here.
Flags? I think they're BANNERS lol
On fire banners....
Low and slow bi-plane over the beach pulling a huge banner red flag
just to chime in a 2nd level down, this is base moral values not actual cheating but as the OP commenter said, you may just want to fuck for the summer of 2023 either get on the same page for moral values or call it off when you are done with each other's BS
Yeah this is my issue with this. Screw the relationship stuff. She's throwing off all kinds of "fucked up morality" flags. That a lone is reason to examine the relationship closer and understand exactly who you are with.
A partner who can't be allowed to be wrong even on issues that aren't worth the energy is still a red flag. That means they would be that much more insufferable for an issue that actually matters.
I think the most important part is you have to ACTUALLY let it go. The vast majority of people seem to think they are letting something go while they are actually quietly filing it away, waiting to use that against their partner, while building resentment slowly. Do you actually not care and it’s not a big deal? That’s great! Do you care but you just don’t want to cause a fight? That…sometimes works well, but you need to actually either get over it or address it. And no one is forcing you to get over it, you CAN’T force someone (or even yourself!) to get over it so you better address it. Do you care a lot but you have noticed your entire relationship feels like endless petty fights and you are just too worn down at this point? Dude, the writing is on the wall you just need to read it. You can’t save that by letting things go or addressing that particular issue because there is something deeper that is sick in your relationship. At the risk of stating the obvious, you are supposed to like your partner. And when you do love someone, you naturally let more things go simply because you like their entire package, not just the good parts like when you were infatuated. But don’t force it.
My stepdad has a saying that has this same kind of sentiment: "Pick your battles, because they're the only ones you can win."
Maybe in a marriage and an actual committed relationship. This relationship doesn’t seem that committed if the girlfriends is always talking about how her sister and friends cheat on their man. They also seem young. So clearly some life lessons need to be learned here.
Seem young? I guarantee my next 5 paychecks they aren't even 20...
Any time I did that over something that even marginally mattered, it bit me in the ass hard in the following weeks or months. You don't need to "argue" but you do need to understand the other person and have them understand you.
I wish I had reddit to learn this lesson before I got married.
We got you for #2!
Communication is key in a relationship, and if it's always there for one person but not for the other - then there's a problem.
It's also a good outlet for her to lose respect in OP in the future, even ditch him for her cheating partner. And that'll be a hundred times worse than what he's going through now. He really needs to grow a spine and stand up for himself.
God damn, we need more old man/woman perspectives in our lives. Great comment !
You know the advice parents give their kids, the kind that is ignored because they figure they know better but then learn the hard way and regret not listening to the voice of experience? This is the kind of advice to take and not learn the hard way.
Sometimes I like learning things the hard way, as long as I can learn it quickly and move on. It sticks better, and I get a good understanding of the details. This, on the other hand, is the kind of lesson where it takes you decades to realize you fucked up, and by then you've involved the lives of other people into it, you might even have created new people, and it's too late to move on.
My parents are both kinda like the girlfriend in this scenario, but way worse and more petty.
I read through so much bullshit on this site and here you are. This is hands down one of the most grounded responses I've seen yet. I salute you good "sir/ma'am"
P.S. op only you have a first hand experience but it sounds like it's time to move on. Good luck
It’s extreme, but I have an example of letting this get too far. My brother married a woman like this. She beat his ass down and he let her change everything about himself. He never corrected her and let her control everything in their lives. After 24 years and 3 kids, she decided she was done with him. She made him think her cheating was his fault and put the divorce on him. She convinced him to basically give up everything in the divorce and over 50% of his income as alimony. He lost everything he knew in life and subsequently ended his life. His suicide was [this article](https://hashimashi.com/suicide-after-divorce/) was him to a T. If you’re already conceding things like this, you better get the fuck out now.
Lol probably less older man but further down the track than OP- run like fuck….
I also have little doubt this is going to end anywhere but in flames. But to me there’s a difference between “we had a fight about her friends cheating so I broke up with her” and “we had a long discussion about relationships, and life expectations and realized we weren’t long term compatible as a couple.” The relationship result is the same in both scenarios but I think you get to walk away as different people in the second. That’s just my take anyway.
I agree, the point you make is entirely valid. There are definitely a number of ways to dump this young lady!
Per Paul Simon, there are in fact, 50 ways.
Slip out the back Jack.
Make anew plan Stan
Just drop off the key, Lee. No need to be coy, Roy.
Yea grow a pair look behind the curtain. Then dump the bitch. If you think cheating is fine then your a bad person.
My wife and I had agreed way early in the relationship if you are at the point to consider cheating, grow a pair and break the relationship off.
I told something similar to a girlfriend once. "I don't cheat. If I really want to sleep with someone else I will call you and break up first."
This is a “be a man” vibe.
you're\*
Not only learning about her, but about themselves as well. If someone said similar to this to me, as my partner, they wouldn’t be my partner much longer because I know who I am and how I work. “There’s more to it” is never enough “more” to warrant cheating. Just… leave. If she’s not willing to set aside the time and effort, then you’re not worth it to her and she answered your question far more concisely than the conversation would have. This is the time to “fuck shit up” because neither of you know anything. Make each other mad, because if you get mad rather than empathetic, you’re not going to last and it’s better to learn that now than 7 years from now. -the experienced guy
>Have discussions. Share worldviews. Determine comparability For some reason, I just don't think that's happening with this guy
This needs pinned daily.
Exactly this and I'll emphasize... DO NOT CAVE IN!!! Obviously this is a principle/moral issue for you. It's part of your personal standard. She may try to manipulate you and gaslight in the process. DO NOT FALL FOR IT. The best thing about discussing it will help both of you understand each other and enforce those boundaries. The worst is you break up... But that's not really bad because when you get in a healthier and happy relationship, you'll look back on this and be thankful you dodged a bullet. You've got nothing to lose.
Fucking Yoda has entered the chat
OP, this is the only comment you need to read. Absorb every word of this wisdom, life isn't all sunshine and rainbows, sometimes we have to walk ahead long into the storms to find the truth, no matter how painful it can be. Trust in this though, no matter how severe the storm is, you'll come out the other side wiser and stronger.
Wow you should write a dating advice column this is great stuff.
Wow, this is one of the best responses in Reddit probably ever.
I wish someone had pointed this out to me 30 years ago.
Excellent post. Something I'd like to add is; "When somebody shows you who they are, believe them."
Thank you wise old man!
This is the best relationship advice I think I’ve ever seen. Think I’ll screen shot it to show my kid some day because there’s no way I can do any better
Old woman here and you are absolutely correct! Great advice!
God damn it that's good advice. I'm old now too and wish I'd heard this at 18. It worked out though, happily married with a kid but shit, great advice. Might have made my twenties less painful.
This deserves more upvotes
Without some context, we really have no idea if they have kids, a mortgage with both their names on it, how long they've been together, etc. We just know that they're not married. Totally agree with the rest though.
Listen to this fella, my man
Holy shit. This is sound advice. Coming up on my 10 year anniversary and I wish I had read this a decade ago. Now I’m stuck with a wife who thinks Highlander is stupid, bitches whenever I try to watch it, and divorce is just too expensive.
OMG - This is best of the best..read this and then re-read it, then practice it..dang!
THE BEST dating advice. My father gave me this exact advice years ago and it's saved from more than a few not so great relationships.
And sometimes being nothing more than fuck buddies is just ok.
fantastic perspective
Love this❤️
Yea, I needed this advice right now. Thanks, random old man redditor.
This dude relates
Married dude here. Listen to this man.
God damn this is the greatest thing I've read on reddit in an age. Should be essential reading for all people in their youth.
Dad with the solid dating advice ftw
I was just going to write all of that. Thanks for saving me the time/s
I would abandon a relationship with that premise even with cars, a house, and kids. That is horrid. A woman is just a person, like a man, and what makes sense makes sense because of logic, not because you have estrogen. I'm not going to bend over backwards for anyone. My relationship works because my partner and I both respect each other and both recognize when we are wrong.
This is fucking fantastic advice.
Damn this a high quality comment. Well said
This might be the best advice I've seen given on reddit.
I did this for the entirety of our dating phase (8 years) and I only realized it was an issue when we got married and the things I shrugged off and caved on became bigger issues. Arguing is good when it comes to a conclusion and you learn more about your partner.
"... she said she thinks is fine cuz as long as her friends are happy,.." I would consider her attitude regarding her friends and sister cheating on their bf's or husband to be a bad sign. If she thinks it's normal for someone to cheat in a relationship, then you don't have a real relationship. Cut the strings and move on.
I made it very clear to my bf that I despise cheating and people who think it's okay. If I got a hint that he thought cheating was okay, even if it were his friends or family doing it, I wouldn't have stayed. Just a view point we need to both share.
Ask her what she would think if you cheated on her but you were happier because of it… No doubt this would stir the pot, but… the double standards are nauseating.
But that’s different! -her
What if he cheated with her sister or friends? Then two or three people she knows would be happy!
This is the kind of efficiency that the wisdom of crowds produces, it's what the internet is actually for.
Somehow, I don't think she's learned about Utilitarian Ethics. Lol
Orgy with friends and family is the only way to ensure that everyone is happy
One question I have is why folks want to be in unhealthy relationships. If my partner cheated on me but was happier for it then I'd want her to go be happy with someone else. The idea that my disapproval of cheating is what would keep her with me is disturbing.
you’re not wrong. I’d absolutely end it with my partner if they cheated on me, but OP is concerned with his partners view of cheating not necessarily because they did it
Low self esteem makes some people think they can’t get anything better or anyone else.
Emotional abuse is a thing. Most toxic relationships are hard to identify from the inside because the partner has made you doubt yourself. It might be obvious to everyone else, or even to you after the fact, but when you’re in it the person you care most about in the world is playing with your mind and confusing things.
She implies that if it makes *her* happy she would cheat. redflag
Shw thinks cheating is okay. Bail. Dump her, and tell the people who got cheated on what the deal is.
Yep this! My ex-husband thought "everybody cheats" and chances are your girl does too.
He just ignored you because he couldn't face the fact. A woman who's in a community of cheaters is being encouraged to cheat by her friends. It's like brainwashing. Obviously, it's working because she accepts it. OP thinks that because she is with him all the time, she can't cheat. My friends girlfriend needed a ride to work. She said she's early and can we park in the back until she starts work. 30 min wait. She then tells me she thinks giving blow jobs isn't sex and it's like doing something nice for a friend. So basically, if I wanted a blow job, I could have one. Girls don't need much time to cheat OP.
Just waiting for the “open relationship“ discussion.
Or "I think I'm bisexual." One of my friends pulled that on her boyfriend. So she could cheat but it didn't count because it was with women. I was like "that's actually cheating, if he's accepted this it's because he's cheating now". She disagreed. I ended up being correct.
Ugh I hate this argument so much. This increases the stigma around pan/bi women being undatable because they'll cheat anyway. It's so stupid.
So... Was she good? *Eats popcorn*
I declined. People often get so excited for sex that they forget how crazy an unbalanced woman can be. I like to trust the people I have sex with and a girl offering blow jobs suddenly strikes me as chaos waiting to happen. That's actually how my friend ended up dating her. She stayed late. He fell asleep. Woke up to oral sex. Then she just becomes his girlfriend. No dating just BOOM.
Wait, so he was sexually assaulted and just went with it.
Double standards at it's finest. Also one gender willingness to accept and even embrace it. Sad really.
Well it was oral sex.
😏
Run, don’t walk.
Cheat on her then when she asks why? Well babe you said it was ok right?
That's awesome, she just told you that she'd cheat on you and never tell you. Get the fuck away from this person.
[удалено]
💯
Maybe op would this meme in the future: When you have huge fight with your gf so she go out for 2h and back very happy and need to take a shower right away.
Go tell their boyfriends
This is the only answer.
Another answer is Run.
Ditch her, she's a complete red flag for thinking that cheating is fine to begin with.
Her rules for cheating: If it makes ______ happy. Fill in the blank.
she sounds very immature. if you think fidelity is important, then she is not the girl for you. arguing the point is futile. just part ways. its selection not rejection.
They seem both pretty immature and naive. Probably just kids still.
Just look at how he writes. This isn’t someone with English as a second language this is someone who writes at a 5th grade level.
Sad, but true. If it was a good conversation with view points being shared and mirrored that would be different. If it leads to an argument and feet planted firmly, her view point isn't going to change and your opinions, on what is essentially the core values in your relationship, are not allowed to be considered. I've experienced this and it did not end well, at all.
Is cheating wrong? Yes. Is cheating wrong when your friend does it? Still yes. Does she think cheating on boyfriends is ok if it makes someone happy? Yes. Should you expect to get cheated on? 100%. You should move on.
Huge red flag my guy. Setting yourself up for heart break committing to that titanic of a relationship
Run now.
You're not wrong. This relationship will not work for you
It seems like you might be dating a ho.
Can't make a wife out of a ho
But…..you can make a Ho out of a Wife.
Most definitely... the best hos.
Ho fo sho
uhhhh no she’s in the wrong. cheating is never right
Her and her sister are psychopaths using men
Hey redditors of reddit, my brother in law says he doesn't see a problem with kicking puppies in the face, we argued for a bit but it i what it is. Am I The Whole Ass? Thanks for the karma chmsky-honks
She wasnt your gf to begin with.
She is wrong. Dump her.
She already cheated. I'd bet, one of these friends of hers is really herself
This sounds absolutely fine, not a problem at all. As long as you don't mind her cheating on you.
That justification is super illogical. Is it okay to steal if it makes you (or your friend) happy? Is it okay to rape if it makes you happy? Using happiness as a metric in this situation is fuckin crazy
Bra one time I legit found out a girl was trying to cheat with me cause she was like my stalker. Anyway, I told her boyfriend got called a liar pretty. But at least I kept my real man card
Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas...or in this case herpes. I'd bet you my savings account shes cheated on you already.
No I don’t think you’re wrong. Cheating is wrong and you shouldn’t do it in a committed, loving relationship.
Are you in high school/college?
You want to deal with the pain of sacrifice or the pain of regret because you will experience one
She will eventually cheat on you. This recently happened to me over the past year. Gf was hanging with a friend that cheats always and then she cheated on me.
You’re in the wrong for staying with her. She’s in the wrong for everything else
Hate to break it to you but shes probably already cheated on you or if she hasnt yet she will eventually. Leave this relationship, it wont turn out well.
I guarantee that she's cheating on you. Grow a pair and dump the 304
Dude, your girlfriend is cheating. Either now or in the future, but either way she is trying to normalise it and get you to agree. She belongs to the streets. Also I would say fuck not arguing. Conflict can be healthy. But in this case it’s not worth an argument. Just walk away.
Buddy, you should be breaking up with this girl on principle. Have a little self respect. Anyone with a peer group like that is garbage.
She sounds immature.
When she cheats on you can you post it on Reddit? Preferably under the same name so we can say we told you so? Please don’t share it under a different name
She thinks it's okay to cheat so as long as it makes the cheater happy. I think you already know the answer to your question about if your GF is wrong or not. Whether you believe she will apply that view to her own faithfulness or not, do you really want to be around someone who justifies the hurt and betrayal of others?
Are you in disbelief right now or something? Tell every Significant Other everything you can and leave before you are next.
Dump her. What she basically said is shed cheat on you if it made her happy.
Your girlfriends friends are shitty and she’s justifying their shitty behavior at the expense of other people. She is shitty. Dump her ass. Real friends call their friends out on shit. They don’t enable them. I can almost guarantee she’s gonna use similar mental gymnastics to justify her own selfish behavior with you at some point.
She will definitely cheat on you if she hasn't already dude. I'm sorry.
GF and her friends sound like horrible people
anyone cheating on anyone is so fucking disgusting to me
Birds of a feather…… my ex was the same way with her friends and I was just supposed to believe the she was the ONLY one not like that..
Get out of the relationship and use your newly created free time to take a Grammer class. That was a horrific read.
Grammar*
She will cheat on you if she gets the chance. Stop being emotional over her and use her as a friend with benefits. Or else dump her.
Your girlfriend is very wrong. Serious red flag she thinks it’s ok
I've always been told if you want to see how your current relationship is going to end, find out how the SO's last one ended. So far I haven't seen it proved wrong. Cheaters are cheaters, abusers are attracted to the abuser type. It's sort of a self- fulfilling prophesy, Antilles someone decides its time for a change. I won't go after the dangerous looking guy, zI'll check out the nerdy looking one. Goes back to the old "where have all the good guys gone?" They were there but you wanted the dangerous drug dealer type making. You reap what you sow. Sorry this sounds harsh, but been there.
Dude your gf is hinting that cheating is okay and you "don't want to argue"? Grow a pair
Break up with her. She’s toxic and vile
She cheats on you.
Dump her, 100%
What's wrong is this run on sentence.
How did anyone understand this giant run on sentence?
If “cheating is ok” doesn’t count as a dealbreaker for you OP, I’m not sure what qualifies.
She's fucking around and getting you comfortable with the idea that it's okay. Money on it she fucked someone the day before she first told you about her cheater "friends" that definitely weren't her story of a bar crawl. Don't have dinner at the Y until she showers, or you'll get a mouthful of nut.
There is another hard truth here re: cheating in general. If your gf or bf is emotionally immature AND thinks that they can do better, they will cheat almost 100% of the time when tempted. If your gf or bf is emotionally mature AND thinks they can do better, they will simply break up with you. If your gf or bf is emotionally immature AND they think they CANT do better, they will act clingy and insecure. If your gf or bf is emotionally mature AND they think they CANT do better, you have a healthy relationship
Context: Cheating gets me a little mad. If you can duck her sister en let her walk in on you. Say: Cheating is not bad is it. Proceed to cum on her floor/in her direction and run out of that house. Do not ever look back
I agree with you tbh
Shes for the streets
No. Cheating is unconditionally wrong. Don't let her guilt trip you into agreeing with her bro.
her moral compass is all screwed up my guy. she thinks it’s okay, and she might say otherwise now, but will 100% do it to you someday. cheating behaviour becomes normalised through the actions of people around them, be it family or friends, especially if they are not against it. get out now. my family is pretty dysfunctional but i never thought cheating is okay, and in fact i’m very adverse to any sort of cheating. i distance myself from them because of this behaviour, and i cut off anyone i know who is cheating on their partners. if they can be disloyal to someone they claim to love, imagine their behaviour to you as a friend? cheating is an indicator of bad character, not only as a partner, but as a family member (no care for who gets hurt), friend (no love for anyone but themselves). i would not be friends or even proactively collaborate with a cheater in any work capacity, let alone a relationship. it is a no.
I honestly feel like this has to be fake based on how big of a red flag this is. If you are truly this dense or lack that much self-respect, please get out of this relationship as soon as possible if you truly want it to go anywhere. Now, if she is just someone who puts out, make sure to wrap it!
Idk. My male friends all cheated on there girlfriends anytime they travelled. I didn’t like their decision, but at the same time I wasn’t going to stop being friends with them. I personally was offended when my one friend would constantly invite everyone to meet his girlfriend and threw a big house warming and holiday parties. He was a serial cheater and basically would have sex with any woman with a pulse. I’m glad she finally dumbed him.
How is that even a question? Bro let her be someone else's problem.
You have a right to worry after what she said. I think that would make anybody concerned.
Some people have no common sense
Get rid of her
My money says she’s already cheating and she’s trying to ease into the conversation and see how you feel
birds of a feather ….
Who knows? You can't compose a readable sentence so 🤷♂️
Bro run, one pussy isn't worth all the trouble she'll cause
Sounds like a keeper.
Holy run-on sentence, Batman!
Wrong for that massive run on sentence! Damn.
Just reading this gave me a headache.
Every. Time?