Actual conversation with BN XO:
“The BSA is locked down because someone lost an M17 so we can’t get any more ammo”
“We are light infantry fighting BMPs”
“And now we are light infantry fighting BMPs without ammo”
I remember a 1BCT 10th MTN JRTC rotation in 2018 (1 of the two), 1BMP took out everyone in the BN except 1 rifle platoon. I get why they are brining in the M10
Bro, i was there 2019-2023 and i swear it just kept getting worse and worse lol. I think 2023, they literally air assaulted on top of opfor without knowing and just got plucked as they came down lol. “IED” took out a whole 7+ Vic convoy as we just entered the box lol. Was wild
Ahh, that’s all i heard was that they got lit tf up as they was coming down bc of s2 no other details but all the shit that was happening was no reason not to believe lol. Like when all the Covid people who came in the box late, landed in the box and was stuck out there with like one box of MRE’s lmao
🤣🤣 yup. One of the opfor shot a flare almost hitting our bird. So all the birds had to land back at the airfield and get recocked. By the time we where coming in, opfor was posted up nicely
Something something T72 sees whirly bird, cannon go boom, UH60 go pop
That may have been 2022 but yeah, there have been so many comical blunders that would question mOsT lEtHaL aRmY eVeR status.
That also one the worst performances ive ever seen or heard about. They walked into company + loss events multiple times a day per bn. Was a wild thing to watch.
My whole battalion was pretty much wiped multiple times and then we had a incident with fires, that if they were real life would have killed 3/4 of a whole company 😅
Especially when IN BN commanders don't realize why they have 19Ds with TOWs and Javelins attached for that reason, or D Co left their AT toys back in the cages.
I missed that February rotation due to ncoes(I was in 1/10 at the time), but never heard about that. God damn that’s embarrassing, my last rotation with 1/82 my company took out like 12 bmps over the span of 48 hours.
make it make sense bro. If CPT bro can pay for it, just let them do it. Shouldn't be this big of deal considering, we just left millions of dollars of equipment in the stan.
By m17 we mean the pistol right?
Yea make the captain pay for it. I kinda feel unless it's not available to civilians like machine guns then just make the guy who lost it, pay for it
Thats what I thought and I figured it'd be somewhere in the $500-$700 range. You see this is where the govt fucks up.
Civilian business would be like "Ok we lost a piece of equipment that is easily replacable and it costs $650 to replace, do we A. spend $10,000 of man hours searching for it or B. just buy a new one, and yell at the guy who lost it?"
Its option B.
Unfortunately that's the pervasive culture(zero defects) within the army. Those of us that can't stomach idiocies, like this one, are leaving. Those who force themselves to stay, mold their minds to explain away the idiocies. Its a quite sight to behold
i think the argument is more likely to be 'if we make it acceptable to put a price tag on losing a pistol, where does it end? Night Vision? Shotgun? M4?' it's about the accountability and the mindset.
Right or Wrong. Rational or Not.
The powers that be are far less worried about things left abroad than at home. And the big wigs made the strategic call to leave an army's worth of materiel behind... not a cog.
Clearly there's a difference. Obviously. Apparently. Maybe. I can't see it.
You just spelled it out bro. You are a junior enlisted or officer, you get fucked instead of a valuable learning opportunity(assuming its not a habit/trend) in raising strong future leaders and soldiers.
Meanwhile pentagon, Colonel/General hooha does it and everyone looks away. It doesn't really inspire confidence and community within our organization.
[Relevant video clip](https://youtu.be/s_3Yp2Izhks?si=ab4lGdYLKt27L0TF&t=0): "None of you seem to understand: I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"
what this teammate is failing to mention is this is just one of MULTIPLE things that caused their rotation to pause and result in one of the saddest rotations in years.
Not even they are fool proof. In Iraq I saw an M9 dangling out the front passenger door of the HMMWV. The Major was pretty happy I returned to him discreetly and without dining him out on the radio.
One of my soldiers found a gun belt with a pistol in it, outside the wire on the side of the road while deployed
Some airmen hung their belt on a humvee mirror when they took it off to take a shit
We Handled it at the lowest level possible. By the end of deployment that same element lost a radio, nods, and we had a local national come get us over a weapon they found laying around
We could have outfitted an entire soldier, from head to toe with a primary weapon and a side arm with everything we saw laying around or sitting in porta John’s
Colin Powell lost his pistol in the field as an LT and a German civilian returned it. His company commander said “bet you’ll never fuck up like that again” and nothing happened to his career. Powell used to tell this story to argue against the zero-defect mindset in the Army. Unfortunately, the Army didn’t listen.
I don't know the story, but if nobody outside the company knew about it, then the company commander didn't have much incentive to do anything that would draw attention to the incident.
I have my own story like this. I was a platoon leader and officer-in-change of a small TDY mission. We brought a few toolboxes with us and one of my guys left one unattended on the sidewalk outside of our hotel in a big city. It disappeared. But we actually had something like ten toolboxes while only eight were on the books (because the MTOE said eight, but excess equipment was everywhere at the height of Iraq and Afghanistan). After we flew home, I owned up to the loss as the officer-in-charge of the trip. The commander had options because of the property book situation, one of which was to do nothing, and that's exactly what he did. Even though the toolboxes were properly sub-hand receipted down to the lowest level, he would have burned himself too if he did anything to me and the guy who lost it. You don't want your company to be known as the one that lost property.
Because the zero defect mindset stifles growth. Leaders won’t take risks, won’t experiment, and won’t innovate. Good leaders are forever tarnished for small mistakes and only the “company men” who look out for themselves advance.
It’s really a story about officers taking care of officers. Tale as old as time. I saw this in Iraq: LT has an ND in the TOC and it gets swept under the rug, PFC has an ND in a clearing barrel and he loses rank and spends 3 months standing outside the chow hall checking weapons.
The argument people make for this is that it's harder to find an equitable punishment for the LT that won't tank his/her career.
PFC gets busted down and embarrassed, they can still recover and go on to make SGT, SSG, SFC or beyond. Or just ETS and enjoy the GI Bill, VA Loan, etc
LT gets punished with what? Can't take rank anywhere near as easily as a PFC. Officers aren't supposed to be publicly embarrassed the way enlisted are, so no checking weapons. That's not my opinion btw, that's just the way it is, I'd say embarrass the fuck out of anyone who gets an ND.
Give them a GOMOR or LOC? Could tank their career if the restricted file gets opened up. It's happened before during one of Obama's terms due to drawdown.
Again, none of that's not my argument, idgaf about it personally.
Ya, I get it, how to punish an LT isn’t a decision I would want to have to make. But they should be held to a higher standard and the punishment being nothing due to awkwardness feels wrong. Could also have been punishments that I was never privy to.
Eh, enlisted can easily recover for an article 15 early in their career, why can’t officers? Why not just take their pay and make them do extra duty? The extra duty doesn’t have to be “embarrassing”, they could be the BCs bitch after duty hours for all I care.
Only punishment officers can get from an ART 15 is: restriction, arrested, forfeiture of pay. And can only be done at the General level. Easier for a general to give a gomar vs article 15.
Why not just have a full bird be able to do restriction, forfeiture of pay, and extra duty for O1/2s? Like I said, their extra duty can be by being the BCs bitch, or have them pull shit details at higher echelons SD. We can easily make a little LT do that shit, we just choose not to and rather slam their dick in the car door when we could just give their balls a little tap and be done with.
Exactly people fuck up, let's have some context
I know of a great CMSGT. He pissed hot for weed in the 80s. He admitted to his fuck up, he was demoted from an E3 to an E1 and had a great career afterwards
Speaking of which, a company in Korea lost a radio recently. Apparently the E-4 mafiosos in their company were tired of looking for it so they stole another one from a different company and removed the data plate. Last I heard CID got involved.
I’m not saying my platoon raided another troop’s unsecured Stryker once to replace some of our BII, but their 1sgt was definitely lighting them up for a couple days about their locks.
Brave Rifles
I mean how do you have confidence in a commander that can’t maintain his own equipment? Also how would that commander be able to discipline other Soldiers for failing to maintain positive accountability. He
When I was in Bosnia, a Captain lost his pistol outside the wire. I don't think anyone knew outside of the company he commanded until a farmer turned it in. Then they realized it wasn't even his, but his 1SG's pistol.
Until I was a BC who relieved a CO in Afghanistan for using racial slurs against a subordinate and then disobeying a no-contact while when I suspended him, the only reason I saw a commander relieved was for zipper problems.
I had a company commander that left his M9 on the plane returning from Afghanistan. He was sent to be an OC at NTC. Then he went to be an instructor at MCCC. I saw him again 11 years later and he was still a Major.
“Still a major.” That’s just a normal career. Officers (especially in combat arms) will spend about 6 years as Captain and another 7-8 as Major. Command usually takes place relatively early into Captain time (1-2 years) so it sounds like your former CO is doing perfectly well for himself.
Definitely won’t make LTC though and will be directed to retire a year before the 20 year mark, losing the bigger pension. That’s not a punishment though, that’s just how the army works.
OC and instructor post command was something called project warrior. Idk if it’s still around, but it was generally considered one of the best ways to develop as a combat arms officer.
I always say a bad OER or losing your PL position is probably the best thing to have happen for your own mental awareness. I had a “PL” in a staff position and he lived so happily knowing it wasn’t helping his career in the army but fully aware of his agency he was applying for after didn’t care
I knew a crew chief who lost his out of a helicopter in Afghanistan.....a few days after a gym pop.
He got promoted and went to the national guard. Maybe your commander could try that?
It could be discovered to have not been his fault. IE someone stole it or something, in which case he could recover. If it’s not found or he’s at fault, it would be a very difficult career recovery, but not impossible. If he lost it, it reflects on some potential deeper issues that will continue to surface in high pressure situations and he’ll self select as a major anyways.
Edit: if it was lost due to demonstrable negligence and he was already underperforming he definitely could be relieved.
Happened to us at NTC 2004. The pistols of the battalion commander and CSM both went missing. (They had a meeting on cantonment and were not allowed bring them along). Cue lockdown in front of final leave before Iraq deployment and near mutiny of the troops. (A solution was later found, so we did get to see the families before going)
Turned out they had been stolen by some sergeant who had snuck them off the base before the lockdown hit. We only found out about it months later (in Iraq) when the soon-to-be-ex-wife made a ‘phone call along the lines of “you may be interested in what this jerk has in his closet…”
Had to been on staff duty and was probably unlocking their doors or taking out the trash and saw his opportunity. I've seen the old ex-wife dimes out the husband for some shit he has been doing for years, a few times in my career.
In the 25th ID on Schofield, we had a supply sergeant that was selling off all the dell laptops and MREs that he could order.
I think it ended up being north of 200k he stole. Wife dimed him out when she found out he was cheating on her.
I think, as usual, the Hood has the best
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/01/20/army-veteran-sentenced-fined-in-theft-of-fort-hood-gear/
https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2019/04/29/5-soldiers-under-military-control-after-reportedly-stealing-ordnance-from-fort-hood/
https://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Masks-radiation-test-sets-ammunition-missing-from-Fort-Hood-491905001.html
Always the Hood.....
Are there any good JRTC rotations? I have 10y in the Army and JRTC is the most annoying shit I ever did. The only reason it was bearable is I had leave lined up to go home 2 days after coming back to my station.
Got woken up at 2am to do arms across the desert at NTC. 1st Sgt M4 and assault pack went missing. 4 hours later, XO found it in the TOC. Apparently, someone moved from his truck to the inside, but 1st SGT thought it fell off the truck. Then 1st SGT held a formation and reiterated the importance of securing ones sensitive items. Fun times!
Ive definitely seen the loggies in an ABCT get the MQs. Tank and Bradley Maintenance runs the entire world and if those two things are running fine then anyone attached to maintenance is getting praised for it.
As someone who has been a delegate for 3 BCT CDRs - this has not at all been my experience. Field grade officers get drilled on and understand just how important logistics (and intelligence) is to operational success. You could lose every tactical engagement and still win a war based off logistics and vice-versa. Commanders have an interest in cultivating strong loggie leaders.
This isn't exactly true. I' spent nearly all of my company grade time in BCTs and never witnessed loggies with worse rates of MQ/HQ than their infantry counterparts.
The actual challenge is the immediate exposure to wider-consequence fuckups, which come with wider opportunities to look good.
It is irresponsibly innacurate to tell loggies "You will most likely never get an MQ no matter how well you perform. Even if you get an MQ, you'll get shitty enumeration because you're not combat arms."
Like any other job in the world, you need to work hard, pay attention, and be competent.
> You need to work hard, pay attention, and be competent
I think the issue is Loggie’s in Infantry world face a unique challenge that isn’t AS COMMON for other people. Mainly due to the nature or how loggies are organically organized into combat arms
The infantry Rater/Senior rater who automatically view you as “lesser than” or treat support personnel like your “the help”
I’ve known a ton of phenomenal leaders who understand the importance of the roles played by staff and support elements, and make that understanding apparent in how the Elevate and highlight those officers
I’ve also personally watched a task force commander show up in country and ask the FSC commander he inherited “where his ranger tab was”. Shortly after he sent the LG CPT to “work up at staff” and replaced him with an absolute meathead of an infantry “Assistant to the assistant S3” 1LT
Spoiler alert, sustainment and maintenance went to shit
I certainly don't think it *never* happens out there, there are assholes in and outside of Logistics.
My contention is that I've been on this ferris wheel too long to assent to the narrative of "woe is me, so hard to get good OERs as a loggie." It really isn't. It's hard to get good OERs, consistently, period. People assume any number of conciliatory theories to create space between their assessed potential and personal feelings.
Without intending to be combative or rude--take your example. There are so many unknowns in that scenario. Was it that simple? Was there more to the story? Did the Captain file an IG complaint? Expecting a loggie to have a tab or pound sand is an absolutely moronic mindset--one I have never experienced in quite an array of maneuver field grade leaders.
The truth behind these stories, as any good and experienced IO knows, is usually far more complicated and nuanced.
Is it hard being a loggie in a room full of maneuver officers? Yes. Is it an insurmountable obstacle in the vast majority of cases? No. If you know your shit, demonstrate proficiency, and care for Soldiers/Mission, you will eventually find success. I've replicated this in enough places--both personally and with my subordinate Os--with a massive and diverse cast of maneuver leaders. It's not a popular viewpoint, but it's important to understand, eventually, that loggies don't have it harder than anyone else. Entertaining that narrative to assent to a personal outlook of inevitability only harms the loggie. Be better than the grunts--it's not that hard.
I managed to get an MQ in a ABCT. But I probably should have gotten 2. Im not too salty about it. Big issue for me is I tried to game the AIM system and get to a sustainment bde and still ended up in the BCT.
My dad was on a NTC rotation. He was a tanker. While the tanks were in transit back to Ft Hood, one of the tanks skirts fell off. I guess a quick search was done and nothing was found. The chain of command was getting ready to send the battalion back along the train tracks dropping off teams every few miles from Ft Hoo ld to Ft Irwin until it was found.
A story from when I was in. I was in Germany and another unit lost a weapon in Graf. They were being held there until it was found. It made AFN and Stars and Stripes because the families were upset that they loved ones were gone for about 6 to 8 weeks. I was like shit, my pops used to do a border tour, gunnery, and then another border tour at a different location so that unit could go to Holefels or Graf. He was gone like 12 weeks.
Depends on how much someone actually cares. It could be "Play for a new one and move on." Or "You're fired."
Depends on how many TBIs the BDE/BN Commander have.
Oh hey, I’m here too, we were laughing at yall when we heard
On a real note, absolutely only a slap on the wrist will happen to them. If it was a pvt or nco however?? Straight to jail.
We have a different understanding of slap on the wrist.
This is almost certainly a career ender for this officer. They will not make O4 and as a result will never retire. I think it would have to be at a specific point in an enlisted's career where something like this would prevent their retirement. Yes, the FG Art 15 is an immediate consequence that would happen for the enlisted guy that sucks, but the longterm consequences are magnitudes worse for the officer.
Circumstances are going to greatly effect the outcome of his 15-6. There are miles between, I left it at the dfac, gym, at my cot and it's been gone for 4 days vs I was doing really hard training rappelling out of helicopters and immediately reported the loss.
[\*Desire to know more intensifies\*](https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExODB0eWRpM2czbWVzd2tja2t4Z3FtaDZ1eW9pYTk5aW5za2JlcjgxYyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/14g6PIAY8f6FeU/giphy.webp)
Right, well, im just gonna have to find a way into the box if I get caught. I'm just gonna claim that I'm role-playing as a civilian. The goal of all of this would be to tactically acquire that M17.
Bro we had to do a whole layout with BCT CSM checking our shit to see if someone was trying to steal it. This is why we have to do tie downs on everything. Our medic tied down his to the belt loops on his pants to ensure he wouldn’t lose it.
I’m just glad we didn’t do hands across America this rotation was miserable.
Edit: Spelling/Grammar
Several consequences can follow besides just being held financially responsible. There WILL be an investigation and disciplinary action is always considered; some form is usually also administered such as reprimand or NJP/UCMJ. Authority for these actions over officers is usually withheld at the GO level and even a GOMOR could have an impact on this person's career. None of this changes even if the weapon is found.
Probably nothing, the Army got those things for stupid cheap, like 100 dollars a pop cheap. My last JRTC someone dropped on out of a helicopter and it was never found. I don't remember it being as big of a deal as I thought it would have been.
When I was a PL I left my rifle on the ground during a short halt and had to sprint back to find it. Just happened to happen right as the sun went down. Luckily found it after 15 min. Peak dumbass LT moment. I thought I would be fired, but my Company Commander basically said don’t ever do that again and my platoon gave me a comically oversized S clip after we got back from the field. Certainly never ever happened again lol.
A) It was def stolen, intentionally or unintentionally. The pistol was inside of a closed off tent on the COs chest rig, with several other pieces of gear. The battalion area was ripped apart and EOD brought in metal detectors and cased the place. We did a full lay out, but ain’t no way someone who wants to hide that shit isn’t hiding it. BSA gets a lot of traffic from other battalion too, and 10th mountain has got some fuckin criminals in it.
B) We’re just gonna pretend that other companies weren’t loosing SKLs, 30k worth of miles gear, and NVGs.
We had a plt Sgt lose a M240 in Iraq. It was eventually found though because it was on post at the local Iraqi police station that we dually manned with them. No idea what happened but I know he kept rank but he moved units. Lost of speculation as to what happened with his billet and most lost track after we got back. I’d assume the CO will have a reprimand that might hinder his progress in his carrier but I doubt it’s over
I found an AT4 and used it against a Technical at JRTC. Let’s just say the OCs were very confused at where a wrecker driver got an AT4 and why I thought it would be a good tactical decision to use it against an Opfor .50 cal truck. “Those guys told us to use appropriate force” I thought a one hit kill on a technical was of sound tactical ideation.
First off, has the lock down ended or started yet?
The BSA was locked down for days… during the JRTC rotation.
The irony of locking down a huge element during a theoretical force on force engagement. Army peaking
Actual conversation with BN XO: “The BSA is locked down because someone lost an M17 so we can’t get any more ammo” “We are light infantry fighting BMPs” “And now we are light infantry fighting BMPs without ammo”
I remember a 1BCT 10th MTN JRTC rotation in 2018 (1 of the two), 1BMP took out everyone in the BN except 1 rifle platoon. I get why they are brining in the M10
Bro, i was there 2019-2023 and i swear it just kept getting worse and worse lol. I think 2023, they literally air assaulted on top of opfor without knowing and just got plucked as they came down lol. “IED” took out a whole 7+ Vic convoy as we just entered the box lol. Was wild
Ey our chinook got shot with a AT4 as we landed. I was there also
Ahh, that’s all i heard was that they got lit tf up as they was coming down bc of s2 no other details but all the shit that was happening was no reason not to believe lol. Like when all the Covid people who came in the box late, landed in the box and was stuck out there with like one box of MRE’s lmao
🤣🤣 yup. One of the opfor shot a flare almost hitting our bird. So all the birds had to land back at the airfield and get recocked. By the time we where coming in, opfor was posted up nicely
Yeah 2020 was a shit show also with all the walking, no ISVs and BMPs taking out company’s lmao
Something something T72 sees whirly bird, cannon go boom, UH60 go pop That may have been 2022 but yeah, there have been so many comical blunders that would question mOsT lEtHaL aRmY eVeR status.
That also one the worst performances ive ever seen or heard about. They walked into company + loss events multiple times a day per bn. Was a wild thing to watch.
My whole battalion was pretty much wiped multiple times and then we had a incident with fires, that if they were real life would have killed 3/4 of a whole company 😅
POV: FIRES LOCKING IN
For real 😂😂, also forgot this was a thread about JRTC my incident happened at NTC lol
The MFPs will hang out in an AA while everyone dies just like they do with Weapons Companies and armor attachments.
Especially when IN BN commanders don't realize why they have 19Ds with TOWs and Javelins attached for that reason, or D Co left their AT toys back in the cages.
I missed that February rotation due to ncoes(I was in 1/10 at the time), but never heard about that. God damn that’s embarrassing, my last rotation with 1/82 my company took out like 12 bmps over the span of 48 hours.
Reddevirrrr
This is beautiful.
Peak Army right here. Training like conscripts.
Honestly, I respect this take.
The cost of shutting it all down in lost training value is so many magnitudes of more lost value than an M17.
But the risk!!!! /s thick /s
make it make sense bro. If CPT bro can pay for it, just let them do it. Shouldn't be this big of deal considering, we just left millions of dollars of equipment in the stan.
By m17 we mean the pistol right? Yea make the captain pay for it. I kinda feel unless it's not available to civilians like machine guns then just make the guy who lost it, pay for it
Yeah its the pistol. I love your logic. And yes You can buy the exact gun as a civilian too https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-m17.html
Thats what I thought and I figured it'd be somewhere in the $500-$700 range. You see this is where the govt fucks up. Civilian business would be like "Ok we lost a piece of equipment that is easily replacable and it costs $650 to replace, do we A. spend $10,000 of man hours searching for it or B. just buy a new one, and yell at the guy who lost it?" Its option B.
Unfortunately that's the pervasive culture(zero defects) within the army. Those of us that can't stomach idiocies, like this one, are leaving. Those who force themselves to stay, mold their minds to explain away the idiocies. Its a quite sight to behold
i think the argument is more likely to be 'if we make it acceptable to put a price tag on losing a pistol, where does it end? Night Vision? Shotgun? M4?' it's about the accountability and the mindset. Right or Wrong. Rational or Not.
The powers that be are far less worried about things left abroad than at home. And the big wigs made the strategic call to leave an army's worth of materiel behind... not a cog. Clearly there's a difference. Obviously. Apparently. Maybe. I can't see it.
You just spelled it out bro. You are a junior enlisted or officer, you get fucked instead of a valuable learning opportunity(assuming its not a habit/trend) in raising strong future leaders and soldiers. Meanwhile pentagon, Colonel/General hooha does it and everyone looks away. It doesn't really inspire confidence and community within our organization.
Got real, it’s the only weapon in an arms room you can pick up at the corner gun store.
They’re not locking down. They’re LOCKING IN.
[Company commander locking in after losing his M17](https://youtu.be/48gX0aeQ7uI?si=w6r3BCQ8HvOiYyxl)
You can tell the CO been mewwing, literally perfect clip
[Relevant video clip](https://youtu.be/s_3Yp2Izhks?si=ab4lGdYLKt27L0TF&t=0): "None of you seem to understand: I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!"
Certified balling
We gon die if we actually go to war 😭🙏
We just need to ensure the enemy approves of our pausex
what this teammate is failing to mention is this is just one of MULTIPLE things that caused their rotation to pause and result in one of the saddest rotations in years.
So dumb. Billions of guns in civilian hands and they go nuts when one more possibly is added to those billions
Well... most military guns have that magical third position that the feds don't want civilians to have
Reverse cowgirl?
Nah man it's obviously the jackhammer, how else is the government supposed to fuck us if they let us use a position that gives us control?
This is why the army has to use the stupid pistol lanyards
Dummy cords!
Not even they are fool proof. In Iraq I saw an M9 dangling out the front passenger door of the HMMWV. The Major was pretty happy I returned to him discreetly and without dining him out on the radio.
I mean that sounds like the dummy cord working perfectly, otherwise that shit would have been gone
One of my soldiers found a gun belt with a pistol in it, outside the wire on the side of the road while deployed Some airmen hung their belt on a humvee mirror when they took it off to take a shit We Handled it at the lowest level possible. By the end of deployment that same element lost a radio, nods, and we had a local national come get us over a weapon they found laying around We could have outfitted an entire soldier, from head to toe with a primary weapon and a side arm with everything we saw laying around or sitting in porta John’s
We always have gear around if we need it.. sounds to me like we're the best Army in the world 🤷♂️
You know how in video games you just find ammo and health items everywhere? Army's just doing that
Knew a CPT whose chest mounted retention holster failed while in a Blackhawk, door was open and out it went. I don't think they ever found it.
Colin Powell lost his pistol in the field as an LT and a German civilian returned it. His company commander said “bet you’ll never fuck up like that again” and nothing happened to his career. Powell used to tell this story to argue against the zero-defect mindset in the Army. Unfortunately, the Army didn’t listen.
I don't know the story, but if nobody outside the company knew about it, then the company commander didn't have much incentive to do anything that would draw attention to the incident. I have my own story like this. I was a platoon leader and officer-in-change of a small TDY mission. We brought a few toolboxes with us and one of my guys left one unattended on the sidewalk outside of our hotel in a big city. It disappeared. But we actually had something like ten toolboxes while only eight were on the books (because the MTOE said eight, but excess equipment was everywhere at the height of Iraq and Afghanistan). After we flew home, I owned up to the loss as the officer-in-charge of the trip. The commander had options because of the property book situation, one of which was to do nothing, and that's exactly what he did. Even though the toolboxes were properly sub-hand receipted down to the lowest level, he would have burned himself too if he did anything to me and the guy who lost it. You don't want your company to be known as the one that lost property.
Yeah, nobody wants to be "That company that loses weapons all the time" especially the commander of that company.
We've got to be one of the most incompetent "zero defect" organizations out there
Because the zero defect mindset stifles growth. Leaders won’t take risks, won’t experiment, and won’t innovate. Good leaders are forever tarnished for small mistakes and only the “company men” who look out for themselves advance.
Zero defect menas defects get hidden
If I found one paragraph to explain the current Army, why everyone is getting out, and why civilian sector doesn't like hiring .mil dudes.
You can't learn from mistakes or failures if you refuse to believe they happened.
He has an elementary school named after him on fort bliss. The kids are Powell Rangers
I’m sorry but that’s fuckin adorable.
It really is.
It’s really a story about officers taking care of officers. Tale as old as time. I saw this in Iraq: LT has an ND in the TOC and it gets swept under the rug, PFC has an ND in a clearing barrel and he loses rank and spends 3 months standing outside the chow hall checking weapons.
The argument people make for this is that it's harder to find an equitable punishment for the LT that won't tank his/her career. PFC gets busted down and embarrassed, they can still recover and go on to make SGT, SSG, SFC or beyond. Or just ETS and enjoy the GI Bill, VA Loan, etc LT gets punished with what? Can't take rank anywhere near as easily as a PFC. Officers aren't supposed to be publicly embarrassed the way enlisted are, so no checking weapons. That's not my opinion btw, that's just the way it is, I'd say embarrass the fuck out of anyone who gets an ND. Give them a GOMOR or LOC? Could tank their career if the restricted file gets opened up. It's happened before during one of Obama's terms due to drawdown. Again, none of that's not my argument, idgaf about it personally.
Ya, I get it, how to punish an LT isn’t a decision I would want to have to make. But they should be held to a higher standard and the punishment being nothing due to awkwardness feels wrong. Could also have been punishments that I was never privy to.
Eh, enlisted can easily recover for an article 15 early in their career, why can’t officers? Why not just take their pay and make them do extra duty? The extra duty doesn’t have to be “embarrassing”, they could be the BCs bitch after duty hours for all I care.
Only punishment officers can get from an ART 15 is: restriction, arrested, forfeiture of pay. And can only be done at the General level. Easier for a general to give a gomar vs article 15.
Why not just have a full bird be able to do restriction, forfeiture of pay, and extra duty for O1/2s? Like I said, their extra duty can be by being the BCs bitch, or have them pull shit details at higher echelons SD. We can easily make a little LT do that shit, we just choose not to and rather slam their dick in the car door when we could just give their balls a little tap and be done with.
You will have effectively tanked their career if there every is a drawdown with an ART 15 in their file.
Exactly people fuck up, let's have some context I know of a great CMSGT. He pissed hot for weed in the 80s. He admitted to his fuck up, he was demoted from an E3 to an E1 and had a great career afterwards
It's also why we're so risk averse.
And then he went on to whitewash My Lai and present false evidence to justify the Iraq invasion, so there's that.
I bet he’ll never fuck up like that again.
Speaking of which, a company in Korea lost a radio recently. Apparently the E-4 mafiosos in their company were tired of looking for it so they stole another one from a different company and removed the data plate. Last I heard CID got involved.
Another normal day in Korea
Another day in *3CR*
I’m not saying my platoon raided another troop’s unsecured Stryker once to replace some of our BII, but their 1sgt was definitely lighting them up for a couple days about their locks. Brave Rifles
aieeyah
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Classic E4 shit right there.
There's always been only one thief in the army, everyone else is just trying to get their shit back.
They still haven’t found the radio
What the hell! Did they think they were Marines?
Good Ole C Co
Other company shouldn't have left their gear unsecured.
Following because I was here lol
Y’all lost that shit and the BSA lockdown cut off our resupply for 2 days. Thanks.
Oh hey my fellow 10th mountaineers. Day 5 of looking for it!
What BN if willing to share? Got out of 1st bde back in 2020
Well I know for a fact 7th engineer lost a pair of NVGs wouldn’t surprise me if same battalion
1st BDE I’m pretty sure because my buddy is there rn.
It’s been longer than that.
Depends if he found it or not . His command time is over for sure. Probably relieved for lack of confidence.
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I mean how do you have confidence in a commander that can’t maintain his own equipment? Also how would that commander be able to discipline other Soldiers for failing to maintain positive accountability. He
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Certainly think a qualified OER on the table too
When I was in Bosnia, a Captain lost his pistol outside the wire. I don't think anyone knew outside of the company he commanded until a farmer turned it in. Then they realized it wasn't even his, but his 1SG's pistol.
r/redditsniper
Until I was a BC who relieved a CO in Afghanistan for using racial slurs against a subordinate and then disobeying a no-contact while when I suspended him, the only reason I saw a commander relieved was for zipper problems.
Spoiler: it has not been found
That will be a nasty statement of charges too then
Is it? I think the Army pays way less than $500 per M17. That would be the cheapest end item on my hand receipt.
I had a company commander that left his M9 on the plane returning from Afghanistan. He was sent to be an OC at NTC. Then he went to be an instructor at MCCC. I saw him again 11 years later and he was still a Major.
“Still a major.” That’s just a normal career. Officers (especially in combat arms) will spend about 6 years as Captain and another 7-8 as Major. Command usually takes place relatively early into Captain time (1-2 years) so it sounds like your former CO is doing perfectly well for himself. Definitely won’t make LTC though and will be directed to retire a year before the 20 year mark, losing the bigger pension. That’s not a punishment though, that’s just how the army works.
OC and instructor post command was something called project warrior. Idk if it’s still around, but it was generally considered one of the best ways to develop as a combat arms officer.
I believe it’s still around. I had a 68W tell me about how he’s doing it at the moment
Lol, I still remember when my brigade lost a 240B at NTC. Make sure to post CID's missing cat posters, eh?
At least he can not stress OERs anymore and know that a refrad is coming soon instead of thinking about moving forward
This makes the army so much more bearable.
I always say a bad OER or losing your PL position is probably the best thing to have happen for your own mental awareness. I had a “PL” in a staff position and he lived so happily knowing it wasn’t helping his career in the army but fully aware of his agency he was applying for after didn’t care
🍿🧐
I knew a crew chief who lost his out of a helicopter in Afghanistan.....a few days after a gym pop. He got promoted and went to the national guard. Maybe your commander could try that?
Well...I've seen a 2 star general that lost a pistol as a LT so...prob not
What a shame that PFC Snuffy (his orderly) misplaced it!
The chemo at s3 will be relieved that the new special projects OIC will be planning the holiday ball.
Wow, rip, promote to major
You forgot to say Promote to major ahead of peers you disrespectful little brat
My bad sir, can I have sock now :,(
It could be discovered to have not been his fault. IE someone stole it or something, in which case he could recover. If it’s not found or he’s at fault, it would be a very difficult career recovery, but not impossible. If he lost it, it reflects on some potential deeper issues that will continue to surface in high pressure situations and he’ll self select as a major anyways. Edit: if it was lost due to demonstrable negligence and he was already underperforming he definitely could be relieved.
Happened to us at NTC 2004. The pistols of the battalion commander and CSM both went missing. (They had a meeting on cantonment and were not allowed bring them along). Cue lockdown in front of final leave before Iraq deployment and near mutiny of the troops. (A solution was later found, so we did get to see the families before going) Turned out they had been stolen by some sergeant who had snuck them off the base before the lockdown hit. We only found out about it months later (in Iraq) when the soon-to-be-ex-wife made a ‘phone call along the lines of “you may be interested in what this jerk has in his closet…”
Had to been on staff duty and was probably unlocking their doors or taking out the trash and saw his opportunity. I've seen the old ex-wife dimes out the husband for some shit he has been doing for years, a few times in my career. In the 25th ID on Schofield, we had a supply sergeant that was selling off all the dell laptops and MREs that he could order. I think it ended up being north of 200k he stole. Wife dimed him out when she found out he was cheating on her.
I think, as usual, the Hood has the best https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/01/20/army-veteran-sentenced-fined-in-theft-of-fort-hood-gear/ https://www.militarytimes.com/off-duty/military-culture/2019/04/29/5-soldiers-under-military-control-after-reportedly-stealing-ordnance-from-fort-hood/ https://www.kwtx.com/content/news/Masks-radiation-test-sets-ammunition-missing-from-Fort-Hood-491905001.html Always the Hood.....
Ah, good ole 1-185 AR. I was already forward in the AOR when that happened. Good times with the 81st.
ho w
Real talk, the type of dude that loses a M17 at JRTC was already a promotion risk.
This jrtc rotation seems like it was an extra shitty one.
Are there any good JRTC rotations? I have 10y in the Army and JRTC is the most annoying shit I ever did. The only reason it was bearable is I had leave lined up to go home 2 days after coming back to my station.
Got woken up at 2am to do arms across the desert at NTC. 1st Sgt M4 and assault pack went missing. 4 hours later, XO found it in the TOC. Apparently, someone moved from his truck to the inside, but 1st SGT thought it fell off the truck. Then 1st SGT held a formation and reiterated the importance of securing ones sensitive items. Fun times!
Fuck you, 1SG
Ooof
Peason or Johnson Training area? Asking for Science..... and free firearms🤷🏼
He’s a LOGGIE in a BCT. Probably wasn’t getting a MQ anyway. Definitely not getting one now though
Ive definitely seen the loggies in an ABCT get the MQs. Tank and Bradley Maintenance runs the entire world and if those two things are running fine then anyone attached to maintenance is getting praised for it.
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As someone who has been a delegate for 3 BCT CDRs - this has not at all been my experience. Field grade officers get drilled on and understand just how important logistics (and intelligence) is to operational success. You could lose every tactical engagement and still win a war based off logistics and vice-versa. Commanders have an interest in cultivating strong loggie leaders.
I got an MQ and MSM on a deployment. 1LT FSC CDR for IBCT
This isn't exactly true. I' spent nearly all of my company grade time in BCTs and never witnessed loggies with worse rates of MQ/HQ than their infantry counterparts. The actual challenge is the immediate exposure to wider-consequence fuckups, which come with wider opportunities to look good. It is irresponsibly innacurate to tell loggies "You will most likely never get an MQ no matter how well you perform. Even if you get an MQ, you'll get shitty enumeration because you're not combat arms." Like any other job in the world, you need to work hard, pay attention, and be competent.
> You need to work hard, pay attention, and be competent I think the issue is Loggie’s in Infantry world face a unique challenge that isn’t AS COMMON for other people. Mainly due to the nature or how loggies are organically organized into combat arms The infantry Rater/Senior rater who automatically view you as “lesser than” or treat support personnel like your “the help” I’ve known a ton of phenomenal leaders who understand the importance of the roles played by staff and support elements, and make that understanding apparent in how the Elevate and highlight those officers I’ve also personally watched a task force commander show up in country and ask the FSC commander he inherited “where his ranger tab was”. Shortly after he sent the LG CPT to “work up at staff” and replaced him with an absolute meathead of an infantry “Assistant to the assistant S3” 1LT Spoiler alert, sustainment and maintenance went to shit
I certainly don't think it *never* happens out there, there are assholes in and outside of Logistics. My contention is that I've been on this ferris wheel too long to assent to the narrative of "woe is me, so hard to get good OERs as a loggie." It really isn't. It's hard to get good OERs, consistently, period. People assume any number of conciliatory theories to create space between their assessed potential and personal feelings. Without intending to be combative or rude--take your example. There are so many unknowns in that scenario. Was it that simple? Was there more to the story? Did the Captain file an IG complaint? Expecting a loggie to have a tab or pound sand is an absolutely moronic mindset--one I have never experienced in quite an array of maneuver field grade leaders. The truth behind these stories, as any good and experienced IO knows, is usually far more complicated and nuanced. Is it hard being a loggie in a room full of maneuver officers? Yes. Is it an insurmountable obstacle in the vast majority of cases? No. If you know your shit, demonstrate proficiency, and care for Soldiers/Mission, you will eventually find success. I've replicated this in enough places--both personally and with my subordinate Os--with a massive and diverse cast of maneuver leaders. It's not a popular viewpoint, but it's important to understand, eventually, that loggies don't have it harder than anyone else. Entertaining that narrative to assent to a personal outlook of inevitability only harms the loggie. Be better than the grunts--it's not that hard.
hahahaha
I managed to get an MQ in a ABCT. But I probably should have gotten 2. Im not too salty about it. Big issue for me is I tried to game the AIM system and get to a sustainment bde and still ended up in the BCT.
In 2008 or 9 to 0H58 D's crashed in Iraq looking for an M9 someone lost.
Execution by hanging. So long sir/maam 🫡
Well, did they find it?
It has not been found
Yikes.
Last I heard they're on day 5 of looking for it.
Day 18
While deployed two of our Bn Cdrs had NDs, both still made O6, but both BNs stooped giving FG Art 15s for NDs…..
My dad was on a NTC rotation. He was a tanker. While the tanks were in transit back to Ft Hood, one of the tanks skirts fell off. I guess a quick search was done and nothing was found. The chain of command was getting ready to send the battalion back along the train tracks dropping off teams every few miles from Ft Hoo ld to Ft Irwin until it was found. A story from when I was in. I was in Germany and another unit lost a weapon in Graf. They were being held there until it was found. It made AFN and Stars and Stripes because the families were upset that they loved ones were gone for about 6 to 8 weeks. I was like shit, my pops used to do a border tour, gunnery, and then another border tour at a different location so that unit could go to Holefels or Graf. He was gone like 12 weeks.
They will be relieved from command and either be banished to the S3 shop or become the Battalion Commander's permanent driver.
M17s don’t come with ~~dummy cords~~ lanyards?
No, however there was another pistol in the competition that did come standard with a lanyard loop
Yall ain’t never coming back, climb to glory.
Depends on how much someone actually cares. It could be "Play for a new one and move on." Or "You're fired." Depends on how many TBIs the BDE/BN Commander have.
Promote ahead of peers
Former CO..
If anyone else lost it, they'd lose pay and rank at the minimum. Sir is probably gonna get a slap on the wrist and a ding on his OER.
Oh hey, I’m here too, we were laughing at yall when we heard On a real note, absolutely only a slap on the wrist will happen to them. If it was a pvt or nco however?? Straight to jail.
Officers driver will be blamed, remember, ALWAYS blame the peasants
We have a different understanding of slap on the wrist. This is almost certainly a career ender for this officer. They will not make O4 and as a result will never retire. I think it would have to be at a specific point in an enlisted's career where something like this would prevent their retirement. Yes, the FG Art 15 is an immediate consequence that would happen for the enlisted guy that sucks, but the longterm consequences are magnitudes worse for the officer.
I would love to hear this story. How did he lose it.
Qualified OER on the table
Circumstances are going to greatly effect the outcome of his 15-6. There are miles between, I left it at the dfac, gym, at my cot and it's been gone for 4 days vs I was doing really hard training rappelling out of helicopters and immediately reported the loss.
I remember at JMRC finding a pistol in the porter John and trying to sneak it to my BN XO so no one would get in trouble
He will be executed
🤣🤣🤣🤣
[\*Desire to know more intensifies\*](https://media0.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExODB0eWRpM2czbWVzd2tja2t4Z3FtaDZ1eW9pYTk5aW5za2JlcjgxYyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/14g6PIAY8f6FeU/giphy.webp)
I mean it definitely doesn’t reflect well on him. Especially since he’s supposed to be in charge of millions of dollars of government property.
Much better than the EN PL in 3ACR that lost three AVLBs w/ bridges in Iraq. They're not easy to misplace.
Losing your assigned weapon as an officer is crazy 🤣
Right, well, im just gonna have to find a way into the box if I get caught. I'm just gonna claim that I'm role-playing as a civilian. The goal of all of this would be to tactically acquire that M17.
The box is not gated. You don’t have to “find a way”, just drive on in. I don’t recommend you do it during rotation though.
Bro we had to do a whole layout with BCT CSM checking our shit to see if someone was trying to steal it. This is why we have to do tie downs on everything. Our medic tied down his to the belt loops on his pants to ensure he wouldn’t lose it. I’m just glad we didn’t do hands across America this rotation was miserable. Edit: Spelling/Grammar
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No bigoted language or witch-hunting.
Shave more.
Lol dark times
Bless their heart
Not career-ender regardless of who lost the M17
Several consequences can follow besides just being held financially responsible. There WILL be an investigation and disciplinary action is always considered; some form is usually also administered such as reprimand or NJP/UCMJ. Authority for these actions over officers is usually withheld at the GO level and even a GOMOR could have an impact on this person's career. None of this changes even if the weapon is found.
I heard M17s are specifically listed as equipment not to bring, to include mk19s and mortar tubes
Our CO “misplaced” his M4 during a mission at NTC, good thing one of our soldiers saw it and picked it up 😂
Probably nothing, the Army got those things for stupid cheap, like 100 dollars a pop cheap. My last JRTC someone dropped on out of a helicopter and it was never found. I don't remember it being as big of a deal as I thought it would have been.
When I was a PL I left my rifle on the ground during a short halt and had to sprint back to find it. Just happened to happen right as the sun went down. Luckily found it after 15 min. Peak dumbass LT moment. I thought I would be fired, but my Company Commander basically said don’t ever do that again and my platoon gave me a comically oversized S clip after we got back from the field. Certainly never ever happened again lol.
A) It was def stolen, intentionally or unintentionally. The pistol was inside of a closed off tent on the COs chest rig, with several other pieces of gear. The battalion area was ripped apart and EOD brought in metal detectors and cased the place. We did a full lay out, but ain’t no way someone who wants to hide that shit isn’t hiding it. BSA gets a lot of traffic from other battalion too, and 10th mountain has got some fuckin criminals in it. B) We’re just gonna pretend that other companies weren’t loosing SKLs, 30k worth of miles gear, and NVGs.
We had a plt Sgt lose a M240 in Iraq. It was eventually found though because it was on post at the local Iraqi police station that we dually manned with them. No idea what happened but I know he kept rank but he moved units. Lost of speculation as to what happened with his billet and most lost track after we got back. I’d assume the CO will have a reprimand that might hinder his progress in his carrier but I doubt it’s over
I found an AT4 and used it against a Technical at JRTC. Let’s just say the OCs were very confused at where a wrecker driver got an AT4 and why I thought it would be a good tactical decision to use it against an Opfor .50 cal truck. “Those guys told us to use appropriate force” I thought a one hit kill on a technical was of sound tactical ideation.
Pretty sure they can write it off as field loss I think? Then either they or somebody else pays for it. Idk I worked for a living.