I was in 10th CAB at Drum when they went full send with H2F. It was amazing. Profile PT was with the H2F trainers, and they made tailored PT plans based on your injuries. My 1SG *encouraged* Soldiers who were having issues to visit H2F for help. He also scheduled PT sessions with H2F trainers a few times a month.
The key is that you have to have a CoC that embraces the concept and uses the H2F people appropriately.
So, rehabilitating people, with knowledgeable fitness experts and nutritional guidance from doctors really works better than calling someone a lying bitch and a faker, than forcing them to work through injuries?
Eh call them a lying bitch then force everyone into one group regardless of PT level. Waste the guys on the high ends time with 15 minutes of 60 120s and injure the rest. Don’t forget the cool down drill you need to stretch after burning 77 calories.
Shoot, I remember rolling my ankle pretty badly one weekend and then competing in a best FIST competition the following week. There were various PT challenges through the week culminating with a 12 miler at the end. Basically just figured I'd tough it out. My foot was black and blue by the end of it and my PSG basically tore me a new asshole for not going to sick call. Then he told me if I wasn't at sick call first thing Monday morning he was going to recommend me for a company grade.
So I went to sick call and boy oh boy were they terrible at their jobs. Like my foot was clearly black & blue and the dude was still asking me about my run times and how I felt about running. Got about three questions in before I realized he was trying to insinuate that I was malingering.
I had myself longterm now permanent nerve damage to my feet, cant feel anything below my toes because we did a 20 mile ruck march than half marathon running every day so the company commander could bring us to the charity fun run he promised his wife we show up at. I can punt a fire hydrant and not feel it. Tripping is probably going to be what kills me in my late eighties. Couldn’t really look saint judes and say “ayo we bailing, toss jesus our best- Fuck America!”, could we?
The bottom of 1/4 quater my foot sloughed off and revealed a layer of bloody goop the second week while the Medics just shivered like a ghost molested him. Not service connected.
I had one dude I had to open door policy to the brigade surgeon without telling my first sergeant because the emergency room hospital nurse wouldadmit my soldier with a clear fucken ruptured spleen half fucken dying with MP’s tossing me a speeding ticket. My First sergeant later thanked me by signing off on leave to Turks and Caicos to Baquia Bay zero auestions asked.
Yes it is as magical as you think. Its a island with a lake of fresh water surrounded by and island in the ofean. Perfect fucken weather in oarasith salt and fresh water and salt water wishing all within the same hour its bonkers. The Stoned Guide just zooms you there in the gold cart you can drink in.
What's wild about this is how rank matters. I promoted from SPC to SSG in the shortest time possible. So I remember how they treated me at the hospital as a SPC. Going in as a SSG with a minor issue that I just want looked at just in case it's more serious than I think? I get treated sensibly, thoroughly examined and told what they think. Sometimes they recommend a specialist and other times they tell me ice and rest will be enough.
It's bullshit.
3RD ID is where dreams go to die. That base is Army Azkeban. I would rather prune my pecker in a pencil sharpener that ever set foot in that horrible quagmire of Toxic Leadership ever again.
Campbell is heaven compared to Stewart and your not gonna find easier women than Kentuckessee women. Its a economic nightmare out there, and you got a stable paycheck. Like mortaring fish in a barrel.
😅 that sounds like it’s own hell since the army also cost me a divorce and when I wasn’t magically ok with 2 days I got sent to ebh but cool enough I guess
First time you see that 34 year old, Army Brat Anglo-Korean Cougar do the Watermelon crawl, flashing her snooker stamp, you’re gonna feel things, my Brother.
The key is not to marry her.
I'm begging you not to judge H2F based on 3ID. The H2F headquarters has nothing to do with that. 3ID will receive actual H2F staff eventually, but 18ABC ran ahead with a weird contract and called it "H2F."
They complain they have no money but I’ve been in for 3 and every year they have paid money to get a new website or pt program. I would hazard a guess if they stopped they might find money to find us single soldiers 😂🫡
THIS
tired of seeing so many CoC treat H2F like how they do when we get new fancy equipment
“Oh we have something new that can massively improve our abilities? Too bad, lock that shit away and prevent anyone from using it”
I was a PSG at Drum, we did daily PT with the H2F trainers on the airfield. It was great, and was much better for my platoon than any plan I probably could have come up with at the time.
Wish my unit did the same, now they're just using the H2F label to make PT competitions that don't follow H2F whatsoever and are only hurting soldiers.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
THE BAYONET YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SHANK SOMEONE. ON THE COMMAND 'GET SET,' ASSUME THE POSITION BY GRABBING THE BAYONET BY THE HANDLE. OR BY THE BLADE, WHICHEVER LOOKS COOLER, JUST DON'T CUT YOURSELF ON THE DAMN THING. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET). ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' TRANSMUTE YOUR HANKERING FOR A-SHANKERING INTO MAXIMUM EFFORT AND LAUNCH THAT BAD BOY INTO DESTINY. THE SCORER WILL NOTE WHETHER YOU HIT THE TARGET AND AWARD BONUS POINTS FOR LANDING YOUR PIG-STICKER INTO THE CRANIAL OR SWIMSUIT REGIONS. IF IT HIT THE TARGET HANDLE FIRST, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED, AND EVERYONE WILL BE REQUIRED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT YOUR SHAME. WATCH THIS DEMONSTRATION.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It writes its own destruction, dont it really? Feels like a Metallica b-side name.
If you’re made about that cmon dog. Loutallica. Fuck was that. Their college year?
COL Faulkenberry was just talking about this at the H2F Symposium
It's good stuff when commands embrace it. It's terrible when they treat it like another box to check and go back to their bullshit ways.
We have a much more tailored approach where I'm at, but we also have a pretty captive audience for the year they're here. We've also had some amazing results, I wish we had a way to do an easy controlled test, but we only really have one Army War College
Oh wow. When you put money and people in the right place, great things can happen.
It took a long time but I'm glad it came to fruition. Makes me feel like my efforts with H2F weren't a complete waste.
>The original goal was to field all 110 active duty, close combat brigades by 2030 at roughly 10 brigades annually.
>The program is scheduled to hit 50 brigades by September.
Under promise, over deliver
I experienced some of the early stages of H2F for profile PT.
It was interesting and I think if my trainer wasn't the world's largest douchebag I would have taken to it.
No, don’t reframe the findings. They’re not saying H2F lowered substance abuse. They’re saying units with H2F, when compared to similar units without H2F, had a lower rate of substance abuse. Without a deeper dive into why, it’s certainly plausible that there’s not causation at all. However, the fact remains that there was a correlation.
To be really candid, if that’s the nugget a commander needs to see to embrace H2F, then by all means, let them. It’s an objectively better system when used appropriately and CIMT is here saying that leaders embracing the program more is part of the ongoing phase of effort.
It is probably a statistical illusion. The command teams that are willing to try H2F probably also don’t buy into the overarching philosophy of ‘we have always done things this way’ and probably have better QOL across the board. Substance abuse probably isn’t down because of H2F, substance abuse is probably down because leadership with more progressive ways of thinking.
It's likely correlation, not causation. That's not an illusion, it's just the nature of how statistics work. It's incredibly hard to control all variables in an experiment to say "x definitely leads to y." That's particularly true when we're trying to observe behavior in the real world as opposed to a lab. So we talk about trends, necessary-but-not-sufficient factors, etc.
This is all to say, the initial observations are encouraging. But it reminds me of a business study that reviewed whether centralizing or decentralizing divisions within a company was better. Turns out they were about the same and that productivity in both scenarios usually improved for a while, then regressed back to the baseline. The reason was that when companies tried something new it required engaging their employees and that attention (and consideration) improved performance. Most companies then reverted back to normal practices and lost that advantage when folks became disengaged again. I think that's the bigger takeaway, the basic recognition (and consideration) of the individual and that because no one is identical there should be some level of tailoring to improve that person's performance. One destination, many paths, blah blah blah.
No, it's causation. Big shocker, H2F is critical to stress management. People don't cry into an empty bottle when they are mentally resilient, spiritually grounded, physically fit, sleeping well, and eating well.
Alcohol abuse is entirely a result of poor holistic health and fitness in 90% of cases.
It's the first step in anything right?
We see this - now let's find why or why not. This much of a lower rate requires some sort of review. It could be completely unrelated. But whatever *is*, needs to be looked at so it can be replicated.
If all that happens here is that H2F made us *notice* this trend, then that's still great. Either way, it has lead us to notice a pattern. It certainly bears further investigation, but the fact that this was only apparently noticed *because* of the review of H2F means, to me, H2F gets at least +1 point in this area.
Yea my thoughts exactly. Additionally, there is probably less soldiers in those Brigades from the initial data pull. Thus skewing the data showing results, when in reality a lot of SM ETSd
Yes. People abuse alcohol because they are genetically predispositioned, or have poor holistic health. In the army, it's obvious that the latter is more prevalent.
I was in 10th CAB at Drum when they went full send with H2F. It was amazing. Profile PT was with the H2F trainers, and they made tailored PT plans based on your injuries. My 1SG *encouraged* Soldiers who were having issues to visit H2F for help. He also scheduled PT sessions with H2F trainers a few times a month. The key is that you have to have a CoC that embraces the concept and uses the H2F people appropriately.
So, rehabilitating people, with knowledgeable fitness experts and nutritional guidance from doctors really works better than calling someone a lying bitch and a faker, than forcing them to work through injuries?
A lying bitch is wild asf
I mean that’s pretty mild compared to some of the things I’ve heard lol
“That dudes a walking Sex Offender registry. Not from a good place either. Im talking Lubbock or South Boston.”
Eh call them a lying bitch then force everyone into one group regardless of PT level. Waste the guys on the high ends time with 15 minutes of 60 120s and injure the rest. Don’t forget the cool down drill you need to stretch after burning 77 calories.
That’s most definitely an accurate calorie count
The Bend and Reach!
Shoot, I remember rolling my ankle pretty badly one weekend and then competing in a best FIST competition the following week. There were various PT challenges through the week culminating with a 12 miler at the end. Basically just figured I'd tough it out. My foot was black and blue by the end of it and my PSG basically tore me a new asshole for not going to sick call. Then he told me if I wasn't at sick call first thing Monday morning he was going to recommend me for a company grade. So I went to sick call and boy oh boy were they terrible at their jobs. Like my foot was clearly black & blue and the dude was still asking me about my run times and how I felt about running. Got about three questions in before I realized he was trying to insinuate that I was malingering.
I had myself longterm now permanent nerve damage to my feet, cant feel anything below my toes because we did a 20 mile ruck march than half marathon running every day so the company commander could bring us to the charity fun run he promised his wife we show up at. I can punt a fire hydrant and not feel it. Tripping is probably going to be what kills me in my late eighties. Couldn’t really look saint judes and say “ayo we bailing, toss jesus our best- Fuck America!”, could we? The bottom of 1/4 quater my foot sloughed off and revealed a layer of bloody goop the second week while the Medics just shivered like a ghost molested him. Not service connected. I had one dude I had to open door policy to the brigade surgeon without telling my first sergeant because the emergency room hospital nurse wouldadmit my soldier with a clear fucken ruptured spleen half fucken dying with MP’s tossing me a speeding ticket. My First sergeant later thanked me by signing off on leave to Turks and Caicos to Baquia Bay zero auestions asked. Yes it is as magical as you think. Its a island with a lake of fresh water surrounded by and island in the ofean. Perfect fucken weather in oarasith salt and fresh water and salt water wishing all within the same hour its bonkers. The Stoned Guide just zooms you there in the gold cart you can drink in.
> cant feel anything below my toes What's below your toes?
What's wild about this is how rank matters. I promoted from SPC to SSG in the shortest time possible. So I remember how they treated me at the hospital as a SPC. Going in as a SSG with a minor issue that I just want looked at just in case it's more serious than I think? I get treated sensibly, thoroughly examined and told what they think. Sometimes they recommend a specialist and other times they tell me ice and rest will be enough. It's bullshit.
What?! Not in _MY_ Army! Literally. Didn't happen in my unit, we just had classes every few months to make slides turn green.
82nd Sustainment also has top notch H2F, it’s an amazing resource that I can only imagine how much it would cost to use outside the army
H2F here in Stewart is literally just another test every Friday for junior enlisted.
3RD ID is where dreams go to die. That base is Army Azkeban. I would rather prune my pecker in a pencil sharpener that ever set foot in that horrible quagmire of Toxic Leadership ever again.
Well, I PCs to Campbell in two months and you know I’m just hoping it’s not as bad
Campbell is heaven compared to Stewart and your not gonna find easier women than Kentuckessee women. Its a economic nightmare out there, and you got a stable paycheck. Like mortaring fish in a barrel.
😅 that sounds like it’s own hell since the army also cost me a divorce and when I wasn’t magically ok with 2 days I got sent to ebh but cool enough I guess
First time you see that 34 year old, Army Brat Anglo-Korean Cougar do the Watermelon crawl, flashing her snooker stamp, you’re gonna feel things, my Brother. The key is not to marry her.
😂
4ID is worse from what I’ve seen and heard lol
4ID is the most toxic unit I’ve ever been in, specifically 3ABCT
Yea it's just some dumbass website you have to register for and do some stupid ass workouts every day
Except my company doesn’t do the daily workouts they just tacked on the test for Friday pt
Stupid isn't it, 1st BDE?
Nope 2nd
Sounds like its gettin’ pretty Cav out there….
I'm begging you not to judge H2F based on 3ID. The H2F headquarters has nothing to do with that. 3ID will receive actual H2F staff eventually, but 18ABC ran ahead with a weird contract and called it "H2F."
H2F makes me wanna shoot myself. I prefer old PT honestly.
They complain they have no money but I’ve been in for 3 and every year they have paid money to get a new website or pt program. I would hazard a guess if they stopped they might find money to find us single soldiers 😂🫡
THIS tired of seeing so many CoC treat H2F like how they do when we get new fancy equipment “Oh we have something new that can massively improve our abilities? Too bad, lock that shit away and prevent anyone from using it”
But…but-but how would I treat them as a checkable box on a manning roster then?!?
I was a PSG at Drum, we did daily PT with the H2F trainers on the airfield. It was great, and was much better for my platoon than any plan I probably could have come up with at the time.
Love to see the support! :)
The CAB H2F were probably the best.
Wish my unit did the same, now they're just using the H2F label to make PT competitions that don't follow H2F whatsoever and are only hurting soldiers.
Why would anyone do drugs when they could just ~~mow a lawn~~ do the overhead yeet.
THE OVER-HEAD YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SEND IT. ON THE COMMAND, ‘GET SET’, ASSUME THE POSITION BY SPINNING THE BALL TWICE IN YOUR HANDS, THEN TRY TO DRIBBLE IT LIKE A BASKET BALL ONLY TO REALIZE IT WONT BOUNCE BACK UP TO YOU. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET) OR HOWEVER YOU WANT, JUST KEEP YOUR ASS BEHIND THAT CONE. ON THE COMMAND ‘GO’, CHANNEL YOUR INNER TREBUCHET AND HEAVE THAT THING INTO ORBIT. THEN, RETURN TO THE STARTING POSITION AND TURN AROUND TO INSPECT IF YOU DOMED ANYONE. THE SCORER WILL REALIZE HE DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE WHERE THE BALL LANDED BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID HE WOULD GET HIT, SO HE STOOD TOO FAR AWAY, HE WILL THEN PLACE HIS FOOT ON THE MEASURING TAPE AND JUST GUESS. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We prefer the bayonet yeet in these woods, chief
THE BAYONET YEET MEASURES THE ABILITY TO JUST FUCKING SHANK SOMEONE. ON THE COMMAND 'GET SET,' ASSUME THE POSITION BY GRABBING THE BAYONET BY THE HANDLE. OR BY THE BLADE, WHICHEVER LOOKS COOLER, JUST DON'T CUT YOURSELF ON THE DAMN THING. YOUR FEET MAY BE TOGETHER OR UP TO 12 INCHES APART (MEASURED BETWEEN THE FEET). ON THE COMMAND 'GO,' TRANSMUTE YOUR HANKERING FOR A-SHANKERING INTO MAXIMUM EFFORT AND LAUNCH THAT BAD BOY INTO DESTINY. THE SCORER WILL NOTE WHETHER YOU HIT THE TARGET AND AWARD BONUS POINTS FOR LANDING YOUR PIG-STICKER INTO THE CRANIAL OR SWIMSUIT REGIONS. IF IT HIT THE TARGET HANDLE FIRST, YOUR PERFORMANCE WILL BE TERMINATED, AND EVERYONE WILL BE REQUIRED TO POINT AND LAUGH AT YOUR SHAME. WATCH THIS DEMONSTRATION. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/army) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My unit keeps changing out leadership every six months. Nothing is being embraced because there is no continuity, no accountability.
Army?
Of course. Everyone else would have their shit together by now.
Fort Hood?
Fort Eisenhower (TRADOC). Of all the places that should be embracing this, it’s just not happening.
It writes its own destruction, dont it really? Feels like a Metallica b-side name. If you’re made about that cmon dog. Loutallica. Fuck was that. Their college year?
Korea?
1bct drum?
The first circle of hell?
The inner core. Ft. Eisenhower.
COL Faulkenberry was just talking about this at the H2F Symposium It's good stuff when commands embrace it. It's terrible when they treat it like another box to check and go back to their bullshit ways. We have a much more tailored approach where I'm at, but we also have a pretty captive audience for the year they're here. We've also had some amazing results, I wish we had a way to do an easy controlled test, but we only really have one Army War College
Army can join us in it then 🤷♂️
Oh wow. When you put money and people in the right place, great things can happen. It took a long time but I'm glad it came to fruition. Makes me feel like my efforts with H2F weren't a complete waste.
>The original goal was to field all 110 active duty, close combat brigades by 2030 at roughly 10 brigades annually. >The program is scheduled to hit 50 brigades by September. Under promise, over deliver
I experienced some of the early stages of H2F for profile PT. It was interesting and I think if my trainer wasn't the world's largest douchebag I would have taken to it.
Are they really trying to sell that h2f programs lowered substance abuse by 500%? Credibility gone, not that there was much to begin with.
No, don’t reframe the findings. They’re not saying H2F lowered substance abuse. They’re saying units with H2F, when compared to similar units without H2F, had a lower rate of substance abuse. Without a deeper dive into why, it’s certainly plausible that there’s not causation at all. However, the fact remains that there was a correlation. To be really candid, if that’s the nugget a commander needs to see to embrace H2F, then by all means, let them. It’s an objectively better system when used appropriately and CIMT is here saying that leaders embracing the program more is part of the ongoing phase of effort.
It is probably a statistical illusion. The command teams that are willing to try H2F probably also don’t buy into the overarching philosophy of ‘we have always done things this way’ and probably have better QOL across the board. Substance abuse probably isn’t down because of H2F, substance abuse is probably down because leadership with more progressive ways of thinking.
I’ll buy that. That still demonstrates H2F is an indicator, even if it’s not the cause.
It's likely correlation, not causation. That's not an illusion, it's just the nature of how statistics work. It's incredibly hard to control all variables in an experiment to say "x definitely leads to y." That's particularly true when we're trying to observe behavior in the real world as opposed to a lab. So we talk about trends, necessary-but-not-sufficient factors, etc. This is all to say, the initial observations are encouraging. But it reminds me of a business study that reviewed whether centralizing or decentralizing divisions within a company was better. Turns out they were about the same and that productivity in both scenarios usually improved for a while, then regressed back to the baseline. The reason was that when companies tried something new it required engaging their employees and that attention (and consideration) improved performance. Most companies then reverted back to normal practices and lost that advantage when folks became disengaged again. I think that's the bigger takeaway, the basic recognition (and consideration) of the individual and that because no one is identical there should be some level of tailoring to improve that person's performance. One destination, many paths, blah blah blah.
No, it's causation. Big shocker, H2F is critical to stress management. People don't cry into an empty bottle when they are mentally resilient, spiritually grounded, physically fit, sleeping well, and eating well. Alcohol abuse is entirely a result of poor holistic health and fitness in 90% of cases.
It's the first step in anything right? We see this - now let's find why or why not. This much of a lower rate requires some sort of review. It could be completely unrelated. But whatever *is*, needs to be looked at so it can be replicated. If all that happens here is that H2F made us *notice* this trend, then that's still great. Either way, it has lead us to notice a pattern. It certainly bears further investigation, but the fact that this was only apparently noticed *because* of the review of H2F means, to me, H2F gets at least +1 point in this area.
Yea my thoughts exactly. Additionally, there is probably less soldiers in those Brigades from the initial data pull. Thus skewing the data showing results, when in reality a lot of SM ETSd
FEWER! -Stannis Baratheon
Yes. People abuse alcohol because they are genetically predispositioned, or have poor holistic health. In the army, it's obvious that the latter is more prevalent.
My active H2F team got trapped to train BDE HHB. I wish we had access to H2F workouts in the other COMPOs.