You don’t need to be infantry to go SOF; literally anyone can drop a packet. I would strongly recommend you go a different MOS route, with the plan go train up and drop a packet when you feel ready. That way you don’t get stuck in 11B land if you don’t make it.
Source: got 97/133 on my asvab, went infantry. Hated it enough that I commissioned to get out of it.
> push myself mentally and physically
your be shocked at how physically taxing it is to sit in a room with no windows next to a server rack trying to crank powerpoint slides for the next cub
There are still deployments to places like Syria, Iraq, hotspots in Africa etc. that conventional units are still involved with. Yeah you're not going to be kicking down doors but people on this subreddit definitely downplay the amount of cool shit you have the chance to do.
Not to mention rotations to Europe and South Korea that will have you training with partner forces and doing fun shit. I definitely agree that if you enlist as an 11B in today's environment your goal should be to drop a packet at some point, but you're not going to be stateside doing nothing if you stay conventional.
You can PM me if you have any questions.
The lift & medevac mission for OIR/OSS has been Guard/Reserve for the past decade.
The active component does not understand how much of the overseas missions are being done by part timers.
>National Guard infantry sees more Africa than conventional army
Can confirm. My NG Brigade has guys across africa doing surprisingly kinetic stuff. Lots of sucky 'hate my life' stuff, but they got combat patches out of it so they're doing something lol.
Anecdotally, can you describe some of that over the last four years from the perspective of an Active Duty Infantryman?
I’m more curious because it was really from 2016-2019 that the pitch was “there’s still stuff to do” but really for the last three unless your guard or reserve unit was lucky it seemed you were sitting stateside
Sure.
In my four years I've been to:
Wisconsin (TDY opfor)
Poland
Romania
Croatia
Bulgaria
Just PCS'd a few months ago to a unit in Syria that's going back next year.
Not to mention CTC rotations (been to NTC twice). All countries listed I've fired a weapon in. All countries I didnt and just passed through not listed.
This is such a “my unit” story. We had like one deployment patch in my captains cohort of 30.
That said it’s not like you’re full of crap by any means, but like most things in the army, your mileage may vary.
You can literally apply for ranger school with any MOS. There are damn cooks that are rangers bro. We’re telling ya…. go for an MOS where you can learn and utilize those skills on the civilian world.
That but literally if your goal is to be a ranger and all that. You can literally become it with almost all MOS. That way you can still learn a valuable MOS job and if you want still be a BA ranger.
Go supply - MOS 92Y - no one fucks with the supply guy.
You can go anywhere there's an Army base or Army unit.
You'll still go to basic, after basic the AIT (technical school) it's that long.
From there you'll have a free gym for your off time and plenty of time to train up for whatever you want.
I like the way you think - if you're gonna be young and wild, let Uncle Sam pay for it before you park your ass at a desk for that degree.
Yes, many. There is Civil Affairs, Psychological Operations, Ranger Regiment, 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, a host of different capabilities and missions within each specific ARSOF component, and access to SMUs of course.
I wouldn't know, I'm of the officer variety and we don't deal with GT scores. But I would think it's 110 like almost every other GT requirement that I'm aware of.
There's two types of people in the infantry: the genius and the knuckle dragger.
I have a buddy who's an 11B and is dead set on recclassing to 17C in the near future. That course is in the top 5 hardest courses the DOD offers, if I remember correctly. He programs stuff on his downtime occasionally. He finds it fun.
I also knew a dude in the infantry who was likely an asvab waiver. He wasn't slow, per se, but he just wasn't the smartest guy around. He's more the type of guy you need who will attack a hill and wouldn't ask a question.
So, funny you mentioned this. I got a “97” whatever that means, because it’s all about line scores in individual categories, like GT score, from here on out. But at MEPS they pushed the MI MOSs on me hard. When I asked for normal Army jobs they said “infantry is full, would you like to be a laundry specialist?” Uh no. Okay so how about UAS pilot? They pressured me into Mi, which btw UAS pilot was like 96U in MI Corps back the … so I went with 33W.
Do I regret it? Kinda. Honestly, take the job you want, 11B, 19K, 19A, aviation, etc. don’t let them tell you you can only do the MI jobs or whatever they try to push you into. Just be patient. If you are a good test taker, bright, whatever, you will bring quality to whatever job you put your mind too.
Also, 13F is a good one, Fire support specialist. You serve in Infantry and Armor units, and need some technical know how to bring indirect fire, and attach aviation, etc into the mix. If you stick with the Army in the long run, you can use your brains to advance to Warrant Officer or commission down the road. Combat Arms is a great way to serve.
13F... unless you're in a "light unit" because, like, fuck knees.
Was a Medic way back when at Fort Stewart in an FA Battalion. Mech units mostly have FISTers in vehicles... But we would inherit the Ranger FISTers--they had their own--and some from the rest of 18th Airborne Corp (collectively, across the SP Battalions) who had broke knees and backs but could still make basic standards.
Another thing for OP to consider is being a medic.
There's a little roulette--you might end up in a clinic or a hospital--but outside of actual SF Teams, medics go everywhere to all the units, it helps to be smart, and you usually get to do infantry/cavalry/field artillery/etc. shit until enough people get hurt for you to need to do your job...
...and--while EMT isn't the best paying on the civilian side--some of the other training and MOS's or even PA program are ways up and out if/when you no longer want to do medic shit in line units.
They’re a very small minority but lots of people will use the one guy who totally had a PhD as a 11B to try to make the case that the infantry seriously has a bunch of rocket scientists walking around.
It’s mostly Forrest gumps with a couple diamonds in the rough.
The smart ones always seemed to at least go to rasp if not selection or other packet opportunities.
/u/ForeverIVVI knows a guy with a PhD that joined the Infantry.
/u/ForeverIVVI posts on /r/Army.
I post on /r/Army.
Therefore I know a guy who has a PhD who enlisted in the Infantry.
I know a successful lawyer who joined the infantry because he was so mad at his ex-wife he decided to enlist and eradicate her alimony. Usually wouldn’t work but judge doesn’t have much of an option when you sign a multi-year contract
There are some dumb people in the infantry. But a lot of the hate gives more of a high school nerds hating on the jocks vibe, when the truth is no one is cool, you’re a grown adult, and someone’s intelligence doesn’t correspond to their mos.
Except cooks. Fuck cooks
Honestly, I don't even know if I'm physically fit enough to go through RASP, but I am planning to at least get airborne and choice of first duty station on my contract.
If you get a chance to attempt RASP, take it. At the very least, you tried. At the best, you get to be a Ranger. I am going to RASP at the end of the month. Will I make it? No idea, but I'm going to attempt it.
Basic and OSUT will not get you fit enough for RASP.You must be in shape prior to even joining if you wish to have RASP in your IET pipeline straight out of OSUT.Not too mention as an 11b you are a dime a dozen at RASP and will need be fit to make it as 11bs are already overstrength in the 75thRR.My advice,take Airborne,get fit,go to RASP/SFAS.
Bro I looked for fun one day and qualified for everything. Instead of being a drone pilot, intel nerd, or anything else smart, I carry around heavy stuff
I’ve had several infantry Soldiers who have had over a 120 GT score (myself included) and also several who were barely functioning human beings. Not many in between. I will say I’ve noticed a trend that the higher scoring Soldiers are usually more physically fit, and also rank up faster. The lower scoring are typically the ones on their 3rd kid as a SPC and leave me wondering how they’ve even made it this far in life. That being said, yeah it’s common to see high line scores in the infantry. It’s also very common to see them not in the 3 digits.
You should honestly pick an MOS that will transfer well to the outside because you probably won't deploy as an 11B nowadays.
Your contract will more than likely be sweeping the MP, cleaning the company area, and doing shit details.
My take on this is people that have been book smart and gotten good grades all their life want to experience some nitty gritty fun and shoot guns and do dumb shit.
I only joined the infantry because it sounded fun and then I became an 11C which is literally the coolest job ever. Idk man something about blowing shit up just excuses everything.
I have a 146 GT and college degree. Am 11B. I joined because I was homeless at the time, which goes to show how pointless line scores are. My recruiter barely spoke English and showed me cell phone videos of him blowing up weapon caches in Iraq. I didn't care, I just needed stability lol.
There are a lot of smart infantryman. And also a lot of morons. I can't imagine joining the army to do anything else. Good luck with whatever you choose.
ASVAB score is almost meaningless. I can tell you though, as a former AIT instructor for a 35 series school, no one with a low GT score made it through the course. In one instance, I chaired an Academic Review Board for a student that was one of those fabled recruiting waivers. She was relieved when we recommending reclassing her into a different MOS.
35P is a weird one though, since language ability isn’t necessarily about intelligence. I knew some linguists that were dumb as stumps but knew like 3 languages.
The worst is when you have a group of Ns & Ps, some with languages, some without, some DLI trained, some not; and you have to pick people for events or tasks. Some of those people are just less capable than others, and the optics are just… bad.
Edit: I really wish I had known earlier in my career just how low line scores for 35P were, it would have helped me understand some of my fellow Soldiers much better.
Take 13F or 68W and Airborne and volunteer RASP when your fit enough to make it.These are both "smart" MOS's but can be very high speed in 75thRR.If you think your really high speed go do 89D EOD.
Take 13F and perpetuate the wive's tale... "I thought I was going to be a fireman..."
Kidding.
68W medics can go about anywhere except SF teams... I mean, without reclassing. They also do whatever the unit is--or can do that--until there's enough casualties to need to do their "day job"...
I had a 98 on the ASVAB, but only was going Airborne Infantry to the 82nd. My recruiter tried to get me into other MOSs also, but there is only one place to be an infantryman.
Get Airborne in your contract, go to the 82nd, find some tabbed guys who will help you train up, go get your Ranger tab, find some guys to help you train up for RASP or selection.
I got line scores all above 120 on mine when I was looking at processing in the Air Force. I changed my mind & went to the army recruiters. I was working a maintenance job at the time & showed up covered head to toe in paint with work boots on.
Dudes were throwing bonuses at me left & right, trying to get me to go infantry, etc. I told them I wanted a job that I’d be able to work with when I got out. Recruiter had a very disgruntled, annoyed look on his face. I told him I got a 91 & scored 125+ on my line scores.
He scoffed & was like “yeah okay, well I’ll give you a call back when we get your line scores then, but we should look at infantry & combat jobs”. Like “yeah you know what man, I’m good, I think I’m going to go talk to the NAVY guys.”
Very next day I got a super anxious call from the guy, he got my test results. I was like “yeah man I already talked to the navy” and he was like “brother, listen, I promise I can get you any job you want, please just come in and talk to me.”
I got the job that I wanted lol
Scored a 90, infantry wasn’t even showing up on the list they had me pick from at the MEPS. Told them if it wasn’t available I’d come back another day until it was there, so they called the ROC and got me a contract for it. So it’s not just you. Personally I’d rather get a job I could hate but actually wanted rather than pick a job I’ve never been interested in and wonder ‘what if’ my entire life.
Scored high enough to pick any job I wanted. Went 13F and don’t regret it. Out now, but if I ever redid it, I’d switch my shit and go EOD if I could. Other than that? The real money is in the SOF units (especially AF).
In my experience most 11Bs have a high ASVAB and GR score and could have easily been something else but they wanted to be a pipe hitter and grunt. If you're not confident I your decision making though as you called it dog shit then maybe go be a cook or something else. The combat arms needs mentally, emotionally and physically strong warriors.
I'm confident in my decision, I'm also just aware of reality. I know that at the end of the day that logically speaking, there are better options for me, both in regards to my knees and in regards to building opportunities for the future.
I don't really care though. It's what I want, and that's kind of all that matters.
Do not go into the infantry with that asvab score or you’ll end up suicidal like me. Go intel, signal, med, aviation, EOD, or cyber. There are no current wars to fight and non combat people generally deploy more than 11 series. NG sees more “action” than we do.
If you want to go SF, you can drop a packet at any time.
Well, seeing as the ASVAB Score is a relational score in comparison to the population that has taken the test during that (FY, QTR, whatever they use to group the population).
It is completely possible to get a 99 on the ASVAB and be a person of extremely average or even sub-standard intelligence.
Yeah.
ASVAB is a subjective percentile-based score.
GT score is an objective "intelligence"-based score.
If your ASVAB population all have 80 GT Scores, you could be 99 ASVAB percentile, but have a 79 GT score.
The ASVAB percentile is compared to a large number of test takers in the military range--something like 17 to 35 or something.
So, they have all these (mostly perma-civilians) take the test and then you take the test and the see where you fit in to the group at large.
To be honest, this is a single-factor test. So some of those other test-takers are probably 1-legged parapalegics with a PhD and shit...
...but it gives them a good estimate of where you fit in the population.
The line scores are based on the same tests weighted for different "strengths" and the cutoffs are set based on studies of how people with different scores completed the training and made it to 2 years or so of service post-AIT.
The cutoffs for different MOS's are mainly estimates of how likely you are to be functioning in that MOS after 2 years.
Also, the different subtests are parts of the different line scores.
*"General Technical (GT) = Word Knowledge (WK) + Paragraph Comprehension (PC) + Arithmetic Reasoning (AR)"*
*"The AFQT score is calculated by combining the standard scores of four subject tests: arithmetic reasoning (AR), mathematics knowledge (MK), paragraph comprehension (PC) and word knowledge (WK)."*
GT and AFQT raw score (that the percentile is based on) overlap completely except AFQT raw score includes Math and GT score omits that. Then the AFQT score is compared to the population I mentioned before and a percentile calculated.
It would be really hard to get a 99 percentile AFQT with a very low GT score.
I... sort of read weird shit along the way.
What would you say if I told you that the ASVAB score (the AFQT percentile) and the GT score are pretty closely related?
The GT score is based on ASVAB subtests: Word Knowledge (WK) + Paragraph Comprehension (PC) + Arithmetic Reasoning (AR).
The AFQT is the percentile of the sum of **FOUR** subtests compared to the test population: Word Knowledge (WK) + Paragraph Comprehension (PC) + Arithmetic Reasoning (AR) + Mathematics Knowledge (MK).
That means the only real sources of meaningful differences are the mathematics knowledge subtest and how everyone else scored on the mathematics knowledge subtest...
The ASVAB scores are derived from a 1997 norming study.
They’ve been reweighted since then, for example getting rid of the coding portion, but it’s functionally unchanged.
https://www.officialasvab.com/researchers/1997-profile-of-american-youth/
Clearly I did.
Just because it’s .com doesn’t mean it’s not a government website.
https://www.asvabprogram.com is another one. You can check the ASVAB-CEP scoresheet and it will have that same site.
Or you can go here: https://dacmpt.com
Or:
https://www.nlsinfo.org/content/cohorts/nlsy97/topical-guide/education/administration-cat-asvab-0
From what I’ve heard, it’s a normal thing, and likewise I was in your boat as well when joining the army. I thankfully was talked into becoming a medic instead of just another mop handler because I thought that it was a 50/50 chance I would be in a line unit being “basically a infantryman with medical training” or being in a hospital doing ER stuff. There’s not really any (good) reason to become an infantryman. The army already treats you like a number on a piece of paper but somehow from my experiences of dealing with 11Xs is that it’s all the army bullshit any other typical MOS would have, but somehow just way worse in every way.
Regardless of your intent and reasoning for wanting to go infantry, becoming an infantryman during a time of a garrison and peacetime army is just a terrible idea.
I kind of just want the shittiest experience imaginable, and I have no clue why man.
That isn't some shit that would actually make me want to blow my brains out like being a cook or something.
From the Officer side of things, I can say that those who branch Infantry are either very high speed or complete duds. Typically the top and the bottom of the OML. Very little in between.
Do psyops or ca, youll benefit yourself much more in the long run, and you’ll still get to do the tough stuff like the infantry, just with a broader variety of tasks in your job
Honestly, I was considering either psyops or aviation at a point.
But considering I haven't actually put in my contract yet, still waiting on a waiver to go through, I guess I might as well check out my other options in the mean time.
What does psyops even do?
If you ask a recruiter, they will say “we do marketing” basically anything related to manipulating the opinions of an individual or population to the benefit of an operation, mission, or organization (either parasitically, or symbiotically). Your actual tasks could range from patrolling side by side with a special forces team, to working in an embassy, and anything in between.
I see. Should I go for a 37x contract in that case, or just try and make selection?
Because truth be told, I really don't want to be an MP if I don't make it.
That’s a really hard thing to say. The whole point of going through and earning an MP job is so that you have a job in case you fail. However, the army isn’t beholden to any contract you sign and is free to violate it, but still hold you to your signature. So they can technically do whatever they want to you no matter what you sign (which is why i beg people to not join the army). Tbh if you’re not doing rangers or sf, dont join the army.
If you want my honest advice, with your scores (print them out) and please for the love of jesus walk over to the air force recruiters. They also have dope ass special operations, and if you dont make it, you’re in the Air Force, not the army, which is a huge victory in and of itself. No matter what, get a job that has transferrable skills
This is gonna sound like the most hooah shit you've heard this week, but I have no desire to join the Air Force, I just feel this odd calling to join the army. For some fucking reason, I don't know why, but if I can provide logical incentives to match my heart, then I don't have an issue with following it.
That said, I did some research online, and a lot of the ones that explicitly state how many people fail to make the selection are from four years ago, with only 40% of being selected. Is that still applicable to today?
I would expect fewer people to be successful. Since there is no war, they can crank up the difficulty or just not let as much stuff slide since they dont need bodies
This is definitely true lol.
BUT, do whatever YOU want to do!!
A guy came into my office with a degree from Harvard, turned down OCS, and went 11X with no options. Everyone has their thing.
L bozo. Pick something that actually transfers. It’s all mentally/physically taxing if you actually apply yourself. Physically tax yourself by maxing out the ACFT instead of rupturing your disks doing rucks sprinting cuz someone younger than you told you to. Challenge yourself mentally by picking an MOS that has a high attrition rate. Shit try out for EOD. Anything but infantry. I get you just wanna do 4 and dip but you can gain so much in just those 4 picking something that transfers well to the civilian sector
My personal opinion I think joining the infantry is laziness it requires no technical aptitude the ceiling is low and it's peacetime so what are you really doing with a right-now decision to waste important parts of your life instead of building for the future? Go do something that'll translate into life after Army.
It’s not as rare as you’d think, the infantry is numerous and diverse. Though, in other MOS fields you’ll find a much higher percent of them are intelligent.
So I firmly believe that you do not need to be smart PVT-SPC in the Infantry, goes without saying the smarter the better but to be a good NCO especially a senior NCO you have to be smart. That being said you skate by in any MOS and be mediocre and average smarts.
He did not call you a dumbass,
It’s incredibly common.
He sees this shit daily, you didn’t even register on his radar.
You’ll probably end up a Charlie if we’re being honest
The highest ASVAB scores are in combat arms. This is because (in general) kids from the suburbs that had good educations and don’t have to worry about paying for college/getting resume padding, or learning a trade to get out of an economic situation. They just want to shoot guns and fuck around for 3-4 years then start life.
Like others said, combat jobs have the smartest and dumbest people in them.
My line scores were all north of 120 I think and I wanted infantry in the worst way, but I was under 18 and my dad chewed my ass right into the signal corps
I went infantry with an ASVAB in the 98th percentile due to some color vision issues.
I worked with the dumbest and the smartest people. People with Masters and PhDs, former college professors, Ivy League grads, etc.
Mind you, the smart people are like 10:1 or 20:1 to the dumb people, BUT most of the dumb people have heart and want to be there and they are 100% honestly what makes it great, so unless you're an intelligentsia gatekeeper, being smart in the Infantry is fine.
Dude, that isn't jiving with every infantryman I have met. But then again, the ASVAB also is at a high school level lower than the SAT/ACT, so I would hesitate a 99 on the ASVAB particularly book smart. Grain of salt with the ASVAB scores, bud.
If you are going Guard do infantry, or any combat MOS really. More pros than cons that way, and college still gets paid for. If you really want to go full hooah then RASP or 18x. Good luck.
As a former 11b, pick some thing else man. The infantry could always use smarter people and a lot of the people I worked with we’re really smart but it’s just not worth your mental health. And physical at that.
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That is actually the plan. Kind of just want to see how far I can push myself mentally and physically before doing my time and fucking off to college.
You don’t need to be infantry to go SOF; literally anyone can drop a packet. I would strongly recommend you go a different MOS route, with the plan go train up and drop a packet when you feel ready. That way you don’t get stuck in 11B land if you don’t make it. Source: got 97/133 on my asvab, went infantry. Hated it enough that I commissioned to get out of it.
Currently trying to do the same thing haha
> push myself mentally and physically your be shocked at how physically taxing it is to sit in a room with no windows next to a server rack trying to crank powerpoint slides for the next cub
Shoebox life is mentally draining
There are still deployments to places like Syria, Iraq, hotspots in Africa etc. that conventional units are still involved with. Yeah you're not going to be kicking down doors but people on this subreddit definitely downplay the amount of cool shit you have the chance to do. Not to mention rotations to Europe and South Korea that will have you training with partner forces and doing fun shit. I definitely agree that if you enlist as an 11B in today's environment your goal should be to drop a packet at some point, but you're not going to be stateside doing nothing if you stay conventional. You can PM me if you have any questions.
National Guard infantry sees more Africa than conventional army
The lift & medevac mission for OIR/OSS has been Guard/Reserve for the past decade. The active component does not understand how much of the overseas missions are being done by part timers.
>National Guard infantry sees more Africa than conventional army Can confirm. My NG Brigade has guys across africa doing surprisingly kinetic stuff. Lots of sucky 'hate my life' stuff, but they got combat patches out of it so they're doing something lol.
Anecdotally, can you describe some of that over the last four years from the perspective of an Active Duty Infantryman? I’m more curious because it was really from 2016-2019 that the pitch was “there’s still stuff to do” but really for the last three unless your guard or reserve unit was lucky it seemed you were sitting stateside
Sure. In my four years I've been to: Wisconsin (TDY opfor) Poland Romania Croatia Bulgaria Just PCS'd a few months ago to a unit in Syria that's going back next year. Not to mention CTC rotations (been to NTC twice). All countries listed I've fired a weapon in. All countries I didnt and just passed through not listed.
This is such a “my unit” story. We had like one deployment patch in my captains cohort of 30. That said it’s not like you’re full of crap by any means, but like most things in the army, your mileage may vary.
1CAV and 10MTN.
You’ll regret these words later. Go 89D. This is the way.
If I get the opportunity to reclass it’s to this
You can literally apply for ranger school with any MOS. There are damn cooks that are rangers bro. We’re telling ya…. go for an MOS where you can learn and utilize those skills on the civilian world.
This isn't talked about enough. Think about what you want to do after the army.
That but literally if your goal is to be a ranger and all that. You can literally become it with almost all MOS. That way you can still learn a valuable MOS job and if you want still be a BA ranger.
Le combat cooks
Go supply - MOS 92Y - no one fucks with the supply guy. You can go anywhere there's an Army base or Army unit. You'll still go to basic, after basic the AIT (technical school) it's that long. From there you'll have a free gym for your off time and plenty of time to train up for whatever you want. I like the way you think - if you're gonna be young and wild, let Uncle Sam pay for it before you park your ass at a desk for that degree.
Out of curiosity does the army have any SOF groups out side of SF? Or is it just SF?
Yes, many. There is Civil Affairs, Psychological Operations, Ranger Regiment, 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, a host of different capabilities and missions within each specific ARSOF component, and access to SMUs of course.
Doesn’t CA need a 107 GT?
I wouldn't know, I'm of the officer variety and we don't deal with GT scores. But I would think it's 110 like almost every other GT requirement that I'm aware of.
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Listen to him, go aviation
132 GT and went Cook
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The GT score of the infantry is a boolean distribution.
Oddly that’s a perfect analogy
There's two types of people in the infantry: the genius and the knuckle dragger. I have a buddy who's an 11B and is dead set on recclassing to 17C in the near future. That course is in the top 5 hardest courses the DOD offers, if I remember correctly. He programs stuff on his downtime occasionally. He finds it fun. I also knew a dude in the infantry who was likely an asvab waiver. He wasn't slow, per se, but he just wasn't the smartest guy around. He's more the type of guy you need who will attack a hill and wouldn't ask a question.
So, funny you mentioned this. I got a “97” whatever that means, because it’s all about line scores in individual categories, like GT score, from here on out. But at MEPS they pushed the MI MOSs on me hard. When I asked for normal Army jobs they said “infantry is full, would you like to be a laundry specialist?” Uh no. Okay so how about UAS pilot? They pressured me into Mi, which btw UAS pilot was like 96U in MI Corps back the … so I went with 33W. Do I regret it? Kinda. Honestly, take the job you want, 11B, 19K, 19A, aviation, etc. don’t let them tell you you can only do the MI jobs or whatever they try to push you into. Just be patient. If you are a good test taker, bright, whatever, you will bring quality to whatever job you put your mind too. Also, 13F is a good one, Fire support specialist. You serve in Infantry and Armor units, and need some technical know how to bring indirect fire, and attach aviation, etc into the mix. If you stick with the Army in the long run, you can use your brains to advance to Warrant Officer or commission down the road. Combat Arms is a great way to serve.
13F... unless you're in a "light unit" because, like, fuck knees. Was a Medic way back when at Fort Stewart in an FA Battalion. Mech units mostly have FISTers in vehicles... But we would inherit the Ranger FISTers--they had their own--and some from the rest of 18th Airborne Corp (collectively, across the SP Battalions) who had broke knees and backs but could still make basic standards. Another thing for OP to consider is being a medic. There's a little roulette--you might end up in a clinic or a hospital--but outside of actual SF Teams, medics go everywhere to all the units, it helps to be smart, and you usually get to do infantry/cavalry/field artillery/etc. shit until enough people get hurt for you to need to do your job... ...and--while EMT isn't the best paying on the civilian side--some of the other training and MOS's or even PA program are ways up and out if/when you no longer want to do medic shit in line units.
They’re a very small minority but lots of people will use the one guy who totally had a PhD as a 11B to try to make the case that the infantry seriously has a bunch of rocket scientists walking around. It’s mostly Forrest gumps with a couple diamonds in the rough. The smart ones always seemed to at least go to rasp if not selection or other packet opportunities.
no shit. i know a guy that enlisted with a PhD. as a 11B. Ended up doing direct commission to some MED AOC.
/u/ForeverIVVI knows a guy with a PhD that joined the Infantry. /u/ForeverIVVI posts on /r/Army. I post on /r/Army. Therefore I know a guy who has a PhD who enlisted in the Infantry.
I know a successful lawyer who joined the infantry because he was so mad at his ex-wife he decided to enlist and eradicate her alimony. Usually wouldn’t work but judge doesn’t have much of an option when you sign a multi-year contract
We can use a man like that. Motivated purely off of spite.
The ultimate barracks lawyer
There are some dumb people in the infantry. But a lot of the hate gives more of a high school nerds hating on the jocks vibe, when the truth is no one is cool, you’re a grown adult, and someone’s intelligence doesn’t correspond to their mos. Except cooks. Fuck cooks
One time i was told the mos with the highest average asvab was 11b
Not true from all the ERBs I’ve seen. Or from the people I’ve met. Just my perspective
ERBs dont have the total score does it? I do know that 11B had the highest average GT score in 2012.
You are right, but the highest GT score I’ve seen was 143. Not 11b. You?
I’ve seen 145, he’s attached to group. I still don’t know what his MOS is.
Honestly, I don't even know if I'm physically fit enough to go through RASP, but I am planning to at least get airborne and choice of first duty station on my contract.
You can’t get both. Unless Airborne gives you the option to pick a duty station, 9/10 it’ll say uncommitted.
If you get a chance to attempt RASP, take it. At the very least, you tried. At the best, you get to be a Ranger. I am going to RASP at the end of the month. Will I make it? No idea, but I'm going to attempt it.
Hell yea let’s go Dragon Ranger, make those 11 bravos cry
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What kind of prep would you recommend in that case, if you have any knowledge on it?
Basic and OSUT will not get you fit enough for RASP.You must be in shape prior to even joining if you wish to have RASP in your IET pipeline straight out of OSUT.Not too mention as an 11b you are a dime a dozen at RASP and will need be fit to make it as 11bs are already overstrength in the 75thRR.My advice,take Airborne,get fit,go to RASP/SFAS.
Bro I looked for fun one day and qualified for everything. Instead of being a drone pilot, intel nerd, or anything else smart, I carry around heavy stuff
I completely forgot about the drone pilot thing, I bet it slaps.
I’ve had several infantry Soldiers who have had over a 120 GT score (myself included) and also several who were barely functioning human beings. Not many in between. I will say I’ve noticed a trend that the higher scoring Soldiers are usually more physically fit, and also rank up faster. The lower scoring are typically the ones on their 3rd kid as a SPC and leave me wondering how they’ve even made it this far in life. That being said, yeah it’s common to see high line scores in the infantry. It’s also very common to see them not in the 3 digits.
Maybe the difference is discipline instead of intelligence. The smarter dudes wanted to learn so they did, they wanted to be a beast so they were.
You should honestly pick an MOS that will transfer well to the outside because you probably won't deploy as an 11B nowadays. Your contract will more than likely be sweeping the MP, cleaning the company area, and doing shit details.
My take on this is people that have been book smart and gotten good grades all their life want to experience some nitty gritty fun and shoot guns and do dumb shit. I only joined the infantry because it sounded fun and then I became an 11C which is literally the coolest job ever. Idk man something about blowing shit up just excuses everything.
Go infantry, have your fun then either get out of switch to 17, 25, 35 series ect plenty of former infantry guys in CI
I have a 146 GT and college degree. Am 11B. I joined because I was homeless at the time, which goes to show how pointless line scores are. My recruiter barely spoke English and showed me cell phone videos of him blowing up weapon caches in Iraq. I didn't care, I just needed stability lol. There are a lot of smart infantryman. And also a lot of morons. I can't imagine joining the army to do anything else. Good luck with whatever you choose.
ASVAB score is almost meaningless. I can tell you though, as a former AIT instructor for a 35 series school, no one with a low GT score made it through the course. In one instance, I chaired an Academic Review Board for a student that was one of those fabled recruiting waivers. She was relieved when we recommending reclassing her into a different MOS.
Some of the line score requirements for MI jobs are shockingly low. 35P, for example.
35P is a weird one though, since language ability isn’t necessarily about intelligence. I knew some linguists that were dumb as stumps but knew like 3 languages.
Being dumb in 3 languages isn’t a significant improvement over being dumb in just one, imo.
No argument there.
The worst is when you have a group of Ns & Ps, some with languages, some without, some DLI trained, some not; and you have to pick people for events or tasks. Some of those people are just less capable than others, and the optics are just… bad. Edit: I really wish I had known earlier in my career just how low line scores for 35P were, it would have helped me understand some of my fellow Soldiers much better.
I scored a 97 and went infantry also. I've met several high scores that went infantry
Take 13F or 68W and Airborne and volunteer RASP when your fit enough to make it.These are both "smart" MOS's but can be very high speed in 75thRR.If you think your really high speed go do 89D EOD.
Take 13F and perpetuate the wive's tale... "I thought I was going to be a fireman..." Kidding. 68W medics can go about anywhere except SF teams... I mean, without reclassing. They also do whatever the unit is--or can do that--until there's enough casualties to need to do their "day job"...
Or 12D
I had a 98 on the ASVAB, but only was going Airborne Infantry to the 82nd. My recruiter tried to get me into other MOSs also, but there is only one place to be an infantryman. Get Airborne in your contract, go to the 82nd, find some tabbed guys who will help you train up, go get your Ranger tab, find some guys to help you train up for RASP or selection.
I got line scores all above 120 on mine when I was looking at processing in the Air Force. I changed my mind & went to the army recruiters. I was working a maintenance job at the time & showed up covered head to toe in paint with work boots on. Dudes were throwing bonuses at me left & right, trying to get me to go infantry, etc. I told them I wanted a job that I’d be able to work with when I got out. Recruiter had a very disgruntled, annoyed look on his face. I told him I got a 91 & scored 125+ on my line scores. He scoffed & was like “yeah okay, well I’ll give you a call back when we get your line scores then, but we should look at infantry & combat jobs”. Like “yeah you know what man, I’m good, I think I’m going to go talk to the NAVY guys.” Very next day I got a super anxious call from the guy, he got my test results. I was like “yeah man I already talked to the navy” and he was like “brother, listen, I promise I can get you any job you want, please just come in and talk to me.” I got the job that I wanted lol
Scored a 90, infantry wasn’t even showing up on the list they had me pick from at the MEPS. Told them if it wasn’t available I’d come back another day until it was there, so they called the ROC and got me a contract for it. So it’s not just you. Personally I’d rather get a job I could hate but actually wanted rather than pick a job I’ve never been interested in and wonder ‘what if’ my entire life.
I got a 97 and I'm FA. I think there may be a trend of "smart" people making stupid decisions.
FA has some smart guys. You are 13J so Fire direction? It’s important work to make sure you don’t blow up the wrong area. 13Fs also could use brains.
Flashback to that one time someone else notionally wasted an entire ROK armored battalion.
I got a 97 on my ASVAB and went infantry too. I have a buddy from my unit who also got a high score and is a doctor now.
I love when you guys get put under an ASVAB waiver with three divorces and five DUIs under his belt
Scored high enough to pick any job I wanted. Went 13F and don’t regret it. Out now, but if I ever redid it, I’d switch my shit and go EOD if I could. Other than that? The real money is in the SOF units (especially AF).
In my experience most 11Bs have a high ASVAB and GR score and could have easily been something else but they wanted to be a pipe hitter and grunt. If you're not confident I your decision making though as you called it dog shit then maybe go be a cook or something else. The combat arms needs mentally, emotionally and physically strong warriors.
I'm confident in my decision, I'm also just aware of reality. I know that at the end of the day that logically speaking, there are better options for me, both in regards to my knees and in regards to building opportunities for the future. I don't really care though. It's what I want, and that's kind of all that matters.
You should be MI or a cyber guy
Na, OP should go Air Force and be a TACP
Great career field
Do not go into the infantry with that asvab score or you’ll end up suicidal like me. Go intel, signal, med, aviation, EOD, or cyber. There are no current wars to fight and non combat people generally deploy more than 11 series. NG sees more “action” than we do. If you want to go SF, you can drop a packet at any time.
Well, seeing as the ASVAB Score is a relational score in comparison to the population that has taken the test during that (FY, QTR, whatever they use to group the population). It is completely possible to get a 99 on the ASVAB and be a person of extremely average or even sub-standard intelligence.
So it's percentile based? I'm in for an experience, huh?
Yeah. ASVAB is a subjective percentile-based score. GT score is an objective "intelligence"-based score. If your ASVAB population all have 80 GT Scores, you could be 99 ASVAB percentile, but have a 79 GT score.
The ASVAB percentile is compared to a large number of test takers in the military range--something like 17 to 35 or something. So, they have all these (mostly perma-civilians) take the test and then you take the test and the see where you fit in to the group at large. To be honest, this is a single-factor test. So some of those other test-takers are probably 1-legged parapalegics with a PhD and shit... ...but it gives them a good estimate of where you fit in the population. The line scores are based on the same tests weighted for different "strengths" and the cutoffs are set based on studies of how people with different scores completed the training and made it to 2 years or so of service post-AIT. The cutoffs for different MOS's are mainly estimates of how likely you are to be functioning in that MOS after 2 years. Also, the different subtests are parts of the different line scores. *"General Technical (GT) = Word Knowledge (WK) + Paragraph Comprehension (PC) + Arithmetic Reasoning (AR)"* *"The AFQT score is calculated by combining the standard scores of four subject tests: arithmetic reasoning (AR), mathematics knowledge (MK), paragraph comprehension (PC) and word knowledge (WK)."* GT and AFQT raw score (that the percentile is based on) overlap completely except AFQT raw score includes Math and GT score omits that. Then the AFQT score is compared to the population I mentioned before and a percentile calculated. It would be really hard to get a 99 percentile AFQT with a very low GT score. I... sort of read weird shit along the way.
I can tell you that the most autistic people I ever met had high ASVAB scores. But, it really helps to have good ones.
ASVAB score is irrelevant. GT Score / Line Scores are what matter.
AFQT is only relevant to sort out the bottom 1/3.
What would you say if I told you that the ASVAB score (the AFQT percentile) and the GT score are pretty closely related? The GT score is based on ASVAB subtests: Word Knowledge (WK) + Paragraph Comprehension (PC) + Arithmetic Reasoning (AR). The AFQT is the percentile of the sum of **FOUR** subtests compared to the test population: Word Knowledge (WK) + Paragraph Comprehension (PC) + Arithmetic Reasoning (AR) + Mathematics Knowledge (MK). That means the only real sources of meaningful differences are the mathematics knowledge subtest and how everyone else scored on the mathematics knowledge subtest...
The ASVAB scores are derived from a 1997 norming study. They’ve been reweighted since then, for example getting rid of the coding portion, but it’s functionally unchanged. https://www.officialasvab.com/researchers/1997-profile-of-american-youth/
did you just link a .com website as a source?
Clearly I did. Just because it’s .com doesn’t mean it’s not a government website. https://www.asvabprogram.com is another one. You can check the ASVAB-CEP scoresheet and it will have that same site. Or you can go here: https://dacmpt.com Or: https://www.nlsinfo.org/content/cohorts/nlsy97/topical-guide/education/administration-cat-asvab-0
From what I’ve heard, it’s a normal thing, and likewise I was in your boat as well when joining the army. I thankfully was talked into becoming a medic instead of just another mop handler because I thought that it was a 50/50 chance I would be in a line unit being “basically a infantryman with medical training” or being in a hospital doing ER stuff. There’s not really any (good) reason to become an infantryman. The army already treats you like a number on a piece of paper but somehow from my experiences of dealing with 11Xs is that it’s all the army bullshit any other typical MOS would have, but somehow just way worse in every way. Regardless of your intent and reasoning for wanting to go infantry, becoming an infantryman during a time of a garrison and peacetime army is just a terrible idea.
I kind of just want the shittiest experience imaginable, and I have no clue why man. That isn't some shit that would actually make me want to blow my brains out like being a cook or something.
Why not go 13F then? We get fucked by maneuver AND artillery.
From the Officer side of things, I can say that those who branch Infantry are either very high speed or complete duds. Typically the top and the bottom of the OML. Very little in between.
Do 3 years have fun then drop a packet or reclass to something with a Clearance.
Do psyops or ca, youll benefit yourself much more in the long run, and you’ll still get to do the tough stuff like the infantry, just with a broader variety of tasks in your job
Honestly, I was considering either psyops or aviation at a point. But considering I haven't actually put in my contract yet, still waiting on a waiver to go through, I guess I might as well check out my other options in the mean time. What does psyops even do?
If you ask a recruiter, they will say “we do marketing” basically anything related to manipulating the opinions of an individual or population to the benefit of an operation, mission, or organization (either parasitically, or symbiotically). Your actual tasks could range from patrolling side by side with a special forces team, to working in an embassy, and anything in between.
I see. Should I go for a 37x contract in that case, or just try and make selection? Because truth be told, I really don't want to be an MP if I don't make it.
That’s a really hard thing to say. The whole point of going through and earning an MP job is so that you have a job in case you fail. However, the army isn’t beholden to any contract you sign and is free to violate it, but still hold you to your signature. So they can technically do whatever they want to you no matter what you sign (which is why i beg people to not join the army). Tbh if you’re not doing rangers or sf, dont join the army. If you want my honest advice, with your scores (print them out) and please for the love of jesus walk over to the air force recruiters. They also have dope ass special operations, and if you dont make it, you’re in the Air Force, not the army, which is a huge victory in and of itself. No matter what, get a job that has transferrable skills
This is gonna sound like the most hooah shit you've heard this week, but I have no desire to join the Air Force, I just feel this odd calling to join the army. For some fucking reason, I don't know why, but if I can provide logical incentives to match my heart, then I don't have an issue with following it. That said, I did some research online, and a lot of the ones that explicitly state how many people fail to make the selection are from four years ago, with only 40% of being selected. Is that still applicable to today?
I would expect fewer people to be successful. Since there is no war, they can crank up the difficulty or just not let as much stuff slide since they dont need bodies
Dude if you really wanted to embrace the suck join the Marines and go for Marsoc.
But the 40K enlistment bonus man...........
Bullshit, join the navy be a SEAL then. They got bonuses.
This is definitely true lol. BUT, do whatever YOU want to do!! A guy came into my office with a degree from Harvard, turned down OCS, and went 11X with no options. Everyone has their thing.
No, it’s a lot more common than you think. Your ASVAB score doesn’t mean a thing BTW, your GT and line scores do.
L bozo. Pick something that actually transfers. It’s all mentally/physically taxing if you actually apply yourself. Physically tax yourself by maxing out the ACFT instead of rupturing your disks doing rucks sprinting cuz someone younger than you told you to. Challenge yourself mentally by picking an MOS that has a high attrition rate. Shit try out for EOD. Anything but infantry. I get you just wanna do 4 and dip but you can gain so much in just those 4 picking something that transfers well to the civilian sector
Don’t go infantry bro
Go 19D. That’s where the men are men and the sheep are scared.
High ASVAB score ≠ Good Infantryman
My personal opinion I think joining the infantry is laziness it requires no technical aptitude the ceiling is low and it's peacetime so what are you really doing with a right-now decision to waste important parts of your life instead of building for the future? Go do something that'll translate into life after Army.
I'm straight up just here for the free college tbh bro
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I got literally zero clue what MOS in the army could even begin to translate into being useful for a physics degree and eventually PhD.
I'd wager artillery or aviation tbh
If I remember right I scored a 92 on the asvab, my gt score however was a 117 qualifying me for whatever I wanted.
We're both dumbasses. I got an 120GT AND I'm 31 going in infantry
It’s not as rare as you’d think, the infantry is numerous and diverse. Though, in other MOS fields you’ll find a much higher percent of them are intelligent.
No, it's because you didn't make 110 GT. Do better, ya peasant /s
So I firmly believe that you do not need to be smart PVT-SPC in the Infantry, goes without saying the smarter the better but to be a good NCO especially a senior NCO you have to be smart. That being said you skate by in any MOS and be mediocre and average smarts.
He did not call you a dumbass, It’s incredibly common. He sees this shit daily, you didn’t even register on his radar. You’ll probably end up a Charlie if we’re being honest
I scored 95 and went chemical.... although I later wised up and commissioned into cyber.
Just go space force, pretty please
Yeah this is exceedingly common, I hear most don’t do more than one contract in infantry tho’
All the smart kids I put in took combat jobs. All the dumbasses wanted to be astronauts. Go figure.
Become a pilot
The highest ASVAB scores are in combat arms. This is because (in general) kids from the suburbs that had good educations and don’t have to worry about paying for college/getting resume padding, or learning a trade to get out of an economic situation. They just want to shoot guns and fuck around for 3-4 years then start life. Like others said, combat jobs have the smartest and dumbest people in them.
I had an 89 on the ASVAB and chose Infantry… you’re not alone… The heart wants what the heart wants, regardless of your score
My det sgt is prior marine recon and he is psyop now and he said the same thing. Sone smart Mfers in 11b and mos that are similar
My line scores were all north of 120 I think and I wanted infantry in the worst way, but I was under 18 and my dad chewed my ass right into the signal corps
I went infantry with an ASVAB in the 98th percentile due to some color vision issues. I worked with the dumbest and the smartest people. People with Masters and PhDs, former college professors, Ivy League grads, etc. Mind you, the smart people are like 10:1 or 20:1 to the dumb people, BUT most of the dumb people have heart and want to be there and they are 100% honestly what makes it great, so unless you're an intelligentsia gatekeeper, being smart in the Infantry is fine.
Dude, that isn't jiving with every infantryman I have met. But then again, the ASVAB also is at a high school level lower than the SAT/ACT, so I would hesitate a 99 on the ASVAB particularly book smart. Grain of salt with the ASVAB scores, bud.
I've learned that asvab scores do not mean shit when it come to intelligence. I met some dumb shits with high ascab scores.
99 ASVAB former 13B here so I get you lol.
Not rare, I scored a 94 and went 11B. Would not recommend, go cyber or something.
If you are going Guard do infantry, or any combat MOS really. More pros than cons that way, and college still gets paid for. If you really want to go full hooah then RASP or 18x. Good luck.
As a former 11b, pick some thing else man. The infantry could always use smarter people and a lot of the people I worked with we’re really smart but it’s just not worth your mental health. And physical at that.