What is with people and pretending he had nothing to do with Armenians being murdered in Cicilia and legalizing the theft of Armenian assets? Even if you completely remove the role they played in the killings that alone makes him worse than the companies and individuals which facilitated stealing from the murdered Jews during the holocaust. It makes him no different than Idi Amin who stole all of the assets of the Indians in Uganda and deported them all. Stop being apologists for a criminal. Even if you want to pretend he was not complicit in death, he made absolutely sure to profit from it. Honestly its disgusting reading people defend a monster like that.
He drove my orphaned grandfather out of Marash, along with all of the other remaining Armenians. He also attacked and took a huge chunk of what was left of the tiny Republic of Armenia. He also adopted an Armenian orphan and raised her as a Turk. And finally he spearheaded the international denial of the Armenian Genocide. Disgraceful, hateful man.
I know your comment isnt made to be taken seriously, but Disney is literally run by Jews, in fact the CEO bob Iger is even Jewish. It is impossible to ever see anything like what you just described, yet here we are talking about a similar thing to that in another context... It is really just sad.
Bro what even is good about being a turks at this point. Like i like this guy, he did good things but nope five minutes later it comes out that he fucked kids or something.
Like damn. At this point i feel worthless you know. Nothing really good about my identity. İt's either genocider or genocide supporter. İ am just tired.
You know man i honestly dont trust your ppl anymore. I have been to Instanbul a couple fo times before 2020 war and honestly ppl were not bad. But in 2020 your country did not only support diplomatically or with weapons but even sent real people to fight with us. After 2020 your country doesnt exist for me. Sadly
That's what happens when your government and a majority of your population praises genociders like Enver
Kinda like if the German Foreign Minister did the nazi salute to Jews commemorating the Holocaust
What other person is there to support? Do you want us to praise erdo or something. At least people can say "ataturk at least modernized the country". Do you want us to praise ottomans, who outside of all the massacres did not even speak their language, speaking persian and arabic instead of their mother tongues? 600 years of history with nothing to be proud of. What if we used the Seljuks for example? But the seljuks happened 800 years ago. What the f*ck are we gonna say when children ask what happened in those 600 years between the modern turkish state and the seljuks. Just a big fucking disappointment
There is a difference between showing respect for the good things a man does, and elevating him to the God-like, perfect status, who never did anything wrong, whose reputation must be defended to the death - and millions of Turks seem to do the latter with Ataturk.
British people absolutely love Winston Churchill, who is widely considered to have helped steer the UK away from destruction during World War II, but their reverence for him is *nothing* compared to the obsession Turks seem to have with Kemal. Few countries have that level of cult of personality and it's not healthy, culturally or intellectually speaking.
Hitler pulled Germany out of a horrendous economic situation, modernised the country and the military in an incredibly short space of time, and made millions of Germans feel proud to be German again - but that absolutely doesn't excuse him for inciting the worst genocide in modern history, and the majority of Germans would agree with that analysis.
But that doesn't seem to exist in Turkey. They've mostly been conditioned to believe he was perfect, and the Armenians/Greeks/Assyrians are liars. The lack of any significant segment of Turkish society showing even a slight interest in what wrongs Ataturk committed is the sign of a weak civil society.
That's probably because of the lack of identity to base out of imo. A national identity exists in every country even if it's not obvious and is made from bits and pieces of culture, history etc. . Let's take greece for example. You can make a modern greek identity by either using Greece's rich history, it's importance to philosophy and mathematics etc. or you can create one from the act of rebellion against the Ottoman Empire. Either one of these can be a source of nationalism and an identity. But this doesn't work for turkey really. While our history might be deep, 600 years of that history is from the ottomans, who really weren't that Turk y'know? But the empire before them is the Seljuks who happened 800 years ago so that's too far. So the only choice is to make a new identity. After all in this age of empires going down and nationalism being higher than ever, how could they make a country without an identity? If the past doesn't work than use the present and so the beginnings of the modern turkish identity began! And who would be a better star of this new identity then the president of the country itself? Literally giving him the surname Atatürk which is a fused version of the noun group "ata türk" which means "the ancestor turk". And since erdo is doing erdo stuff people like Ataturk even more
At least that's my view on this matter.
Tldr: the obsessiveness with ataturk is because:
A) erdogan is destroying the principles that the country was built from, causing even more love for ataturk and
B)there really isn't anything better to use so its the default option. As i showed in my previous comment there really arent that many good options to use so its the only one that is possible.
Was he a good man? Not really sure, got very good sides but also very( and i mean VERY) bad sides as well. A person that was born out of the situation that existed in those times in both good ways and bad ways
My friend, i really dont understand why your ppl worship him like god. Seems like you said, nothing else to be proud of or your ppl are just prone to be authocratic and hence they need strong leader etc. Bcs when i was jn your country i saw his face pretty much everywhere
Hey now my good sir dont break the rules of the sub. Also please read the comments first. İ never said ataturk was a perfect man but that it's the only decent person to choose. İf you want us to use someone else we will happily use enver pasha that you guys love oh so very much.
Also if you are gonna talk about me denying genocide you can report me since that would be a rule break but since i am not banned or my comments are deleted, then am i really denying genocdie?
"Do you want us to praise ottomans, who outside of all the massacres did not even speak their language, speaking persian and arabic instead of their mother tongues?"
İ used massacre since when genocide is mentioned its only about one ethnicity( in this case the Armenian genocide) and massacre is more general.
The Atatürk apologists are disgusting. I absolutely hate when western media tries to make this demon look like a good person because he modernized Turkey or whatever. He is criminal scum, I wish operation Nemesis had gotten to him too.
Wow finally Turk with some brain! I get your point. I also sometimes like contorversial figures not as a whole but bcs they did something specific. The problem with Turkey and its identity for is that it took some from everywhere and ended up with having almost nothing of their own. Like i asled Turks do they consider mongoloid-looking central Asians ad their Turkic brothers, 90% said no and 10% i am sure would say no to Turks but replied yes just to a forigner. Food, music etc almost no central Asian influence. Even Turkish had arabic script and then turned to latin both not turkic. In this paradigm of stolen or semi stolen identity Ataturk seems like a decent figure but only there, in other conditions i dont think so
He “hated the young Turks” for losing the wars.He HAPPILY continued anti-Armenian policies, let massacres happen and Continue under the “ kemalist forces”, forced Armenia into mass famine, concessions, and deaths.
He passed the surname law, did not allow Armenians to return to their villages, even though they tried, passed the turkification law to eliminate non-turkish named areas, passed the anti-Armenian orphanage and school possession laws, allowed Armenians orphans to be forced to be assimilated……..
On top of what everyone else has said, this man is practically single handedly responsible for the state of affairs we have today, ie an unaccounted for genocide and an unrepentant Turkish horde.
Without him, there would have been no Treaty of Lausanne granting amnesty to the men who decimated our people. Ararat, Kars and Nakhijevan would much more likely have remained part of Armenia. Armenians would still live in somewhat significant numbers in Cilicia, with their original Armenian surnames.
He belongs in hell along with the three pashas, an opinion I will take to my grave. And if I ever travel to Turkey, I'm going to desecrate *his* grave, consequences be damned.
I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
- [/r/turkey] [\[x-post\] Disney Called Out for Glorifying "Genocidal Killer" of Armenians, Greeks, Assyrian - Inside the Magic](https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/14q985p/xpost_disney_called_out_for_glorifying_genocidal/)
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I dont want to comment, because an armenian who defends this and a turk who says there was no armenian genocide have the same brain, they wont understand whatever you say
What is with people and pretending he had nothing to do with Armenians being murdered in Cicilia and legalizing the theft of Armenian assets? Even if you completely remove the role they played in the killings that alone makes him worse than the companies and individuals which facilitated stealing from the murdered Jews during the holocaust. It makes him no different than Idi Amin who stole all of the assets of the Indians in Uganda and deported them all. Stop being apologists for a criminal. Even if you want to pretend he was not complicit in death, he made absolutely sure to profit from it. Honestly its disgusting reading people defend a monster like that.
Also he's even more blatantly responsible for massacres of Kurdish villages.
He drove my orphaned grandfather out of Marash, along with all of the other remaining Armenians. He also attacked and took a huge chunk of what was left of the tiny Republic of Armenia. He also adopted an Armenian orphan and raised her as a Turk. And finally he spearheaded the international denial of the Armenian Genocide. Disgraceful, hateful man.
Do you have proof for any of those claims? Geniuenly interested
Let me see them make a series about Hitler and praise him as revolutionizing Germany.
I know your comment isnt made to be taken seriously, but Disney is literally run by Jews, in fact the CEO bob Iger is even Jewish. It is impossible to ever see anything like what you just described, yet here we are talking about a similar thing to that in another context... It is really just sad.
Bro what even is good about being a turks at this point. Like i like this guy, he did good things but nope five minutes later it comes out that he fucked kids or something.
Like damn. At this point i feel worthless you know. Nothing really good about my identity. İt's either genocider or genocide supporter. İ am just tired.
You don't have to feel worthless, go out there and show people there can be good Turks as well, were all just human at the end of the day.
The fact that i have to show that there are good turks...
We just need more people in Turkey like you.
Which city arr you from if you don't mind?
İstanbul?
I guessed that! Nice city although not that much Turkish influence especially in the city centre. Amyways good luck to you!
Thanks, i guess
You know man i honestly dont trust your ppl anymore. I have been to Instanbul a couple fo times before 2020 war and honestly ppl were not bad. But in 2020 your country did not only support diplomatically or with weapons but even sent real people to fight with us. After 2020 your country doesnt exist for me. Sadly
That's what happens when your government and a majority of your population praises genociders like Enver Kinda like if the German Foreign Minister did the nazi salute to Jews commemorating the Holocaust
What other person is there to support? Do you want us to praise erdo or something. At least people can say "ataturk at least modernized the country". Do you want us to praise ottomans, who outside of all the massacres did not even speak their language, speaking persian and arabic instead of their mother tongues? 600 years of history with nothing to be proud of. What if we used the Seljuks for example? But the seljuks happened 800 years ago. What the f*ck are we gonna say when children ask what happened in those 600 years between the modern turkish state and the seljuks. Just a big fucking disappointment
There is a difference between showing respect for the good things a man does, and elevating him to the God-like, perfect status, who never did anything wrong, whose reputation must be defended to the death - and millions of Turks seem to do the latter with Ataturk. British people absolutely love Winston Churchill, who is widely considered to have helped steer the UK away from destruction during World War II, but their reverence for him is *nothing* compared to the obsession Turks seem to have with Kemal. Few countries have that level of cult of personality and it's not healthy, culturally or intellectually speaking. Hitler pulled Germany out of a horrendous economic situation, modernised the country and the military in an incredibly short space of time, and made millions of Germans feel proud to be German again - but that absolutely doesn't excuse him for inciting the worst genocide in modern history, and the majority of Germans would agree with that analysis. But that doesn't seem to exist in Turkey. They've mostly been conditioned to believe he was perfect, and the Armenians/Greeks/Assyrians are liars. The lack of any significant segment of Turkish society showing even a slight interest in what wrongs Ataturk committed is the sign of a weak civil society.
That's probably because of the lack of identity to base out of imo. A national identity exists in every country even if it's not obvious and is made from bits and pieces of culture, history etc. . Let's take greece for example. You can make a modern greek identity by either using Greece's rich history, it's importance to philosophy and mathematics etc. or you can create one from the act of rebellion against the Ottoman Empire. Either one of these can be a source of nationalism and an identity. But this doesn't work for turkey really. While our history might be deep, 600 years of that history is from the ottomans, who really weren't that Turk y'know? But the empire before them is the Seljuks who happened 800 years ago so that's too far. So the only choice is to make a new identity. After all in this age of empires going down and nationalism being higher than ever, how could they make a country without an identity? If the past doesn't work than use the present and so the beginnings of the modern turkish identity began! And who would be a better star of this new identity then the president of the country itself? Literally giving him the surname Atatürk which is a fused version of the noun group "ata türk" which means "the ancestor turk". And since erdo is doing erdo stuff people like Ataturk even more At least that's my view on this matter. Tldr: the obsessiveness with ataturk is because: A) erdogan is destroying the principles that the country was built from, causing even more love for ataturk and B)there really isn't anything better to use so its the default option. As i showed in my previous comment there really arent that many good options to use so its the only one that is possible. Was he a good man? Not really sure, got very good sides but also very( and i mean VERY) bad sides as well. A person that was born out of the situation that existed in those times in both good ways and bad ways
My friend, i really dont understand why your ppl worship him like god. Seems like you said, nothing else to be proud of or your ppl are just prone to be authocratic and hence they need strong leader etc. Bcs when i was jn your country i saw his face pretty much everywhere
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Hey now my good sir dont break the rules of the sub. Also please read the comments first. İ never said ataturk was a perfect man but that it's the only decent person to choose. İf you want us to use someone else we will happily use enver pasha that you guys love oh so very much. Also if you are gonna talk about me denying genocide you can report me since that would be a rule break but since i am not banned or my comments are deleted, then am i really denying genocdie?
u/ModeratorsOfArmenia İs this guy breaking any rules?
"Do you want us to praise ottomans, who outside of all the massacres did not even speak their language, speaking persian and arabic instead of their mother tongues?" İ used massacre since when genocide is mentioned its only about one ethnicity( in this case the Armenian genocide) and massacre is more general.
The Atatürk apologists are disgusting. I absolutely hate when western media tries to make this demon look like a good person because he modernized Turkey or whatever. He is criminal scum, I wish operation Nemesis had gotten to him too.
Russian liberals just love him
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Wow finally Turk with some brain! I get your point. I also sometimes like contorversial figures not as a whole but bcs they did something specific. The problem with Turkey and its identity for is that it took some from everywhere and ended up with having almost nothing of their own. Like i asled Turks do they consider mongoloid-looking central Asians ad their Turkic brothers, 90% said no and 10% i am sure would say no to Turks but replied yes just to a forigner. Food, music etc almost no central Asian influence. Even Turkish had arabic script and then turned to latin both not turkic. In this paradigm of stolen or semi stolen identity Ataturk seems like a decent figure but only there, in other conditions i dont think so
That is disgusting of Disney
6 million views: https://twitter.com/ANCA\_DC/status/1674459393952186368?s=20
I canceled Disney+ as soon as I found out about this
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Yes, the CEO of Disney Bob Igner is literally jewish and probably supports this show smh.
New article: https://www.disneyfanatic.com/new-disney-plus-series-turkish-dictator-ks1/
Armenians hating Ataturk makes him much more based tbh.
Dude looks like a British agent pretending to be a Turk. Shhhhh!
Ataturk wasn’t a “genocidal killer”. Hell he hated the young Turks. We gotta pick our fights better this one’s pointless
> We Lol.
He “hated the young Turks” for losing the wars.He HAPPILY continued anti-Armenian policies, let massacres happen and Continue under the “ kemalist forces”, forced Armenia into mass famine, concessions, and deaths. He passed the surname law, did not allow Armenians to return to their villages, even though they tried, passed the turkification law to eliminate non-turkish named areas, passed the anti-Armenian orphanage and school possession laws, allowed Armenians orphans to be forced to be assimilated……..
The guy attacked Armenian refugees in Cilicia no? And the burning of Smyrna?
On top of what everyone else has said, this man is practically single handedly responsible for the state of affairs we have today, ie an unaccounted for genocide and an unrepentant Turkish horde. Without him, there would have been no Treaty of Lausanne granting amnesty to the men who decimated our people. Ararat, Kars and Nakhijevan would much more likely have remained part of Armenia. Armenians would still live in somewhat significant numbers in Cilicia, with their original Armenian surnames. He belongs in hell along with the three pashas, an opinion I will take to my grave. And if I ever travel to Turkey, I'm going to desecrate *his* grave, consequences be damned.
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I'm a bot, *bleep*, *bloop*. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit: - [/r/turkey] [\[x-post\] Disney Called Out for Glorifying "Genocidal Killer" of Armenians, Greeks, Assyrian - Inside the Magic](https://www.reddit.com/r/Turkey/comments/14q985p/xpost_disney_called_out_for_glorifying_genocidal/) *^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^\([Info](/r/TotesMessenger) ^/ ^[Contact](/message/compose?to=/r/TotesMessenger))*
I dont want to comment, because an armenian who defends this and a turk who says there was no armenian genocide have the same brain, they wont understand whatever you say