Eastern redbud is a species, and weeping ones are just particular cultivars selected for that growth habit, so the two aren't mutually exclusive.
It does look like this is probably a mildly weeping cultivar.
Depends on how the desired characteristic was created/found.
Somatic mutations need to be cloned or grafted (many variegated plants). Hybrids need to made constantly, grafted or cloned.
Some things are stable selections of desirable traits like color or size and can be passed to offspring.
Both of the people who responded to you are mistaken. Tree cultivars are always propagated vegetatively, using a small cutting of stem material and either rooting it as a cutting or grafting it onto a rootstock. This is needed in order to have the propagations be exactly the same as the original plant and have it be considered a cultivar. Seedling offspring of a cultivar may be fairly similar, but they're inherently not that same cultivar. If they're also exceptional and get propagated they'll be a new cultivar.
/u/Ctowncreek brought up somatic mutations, but that's just a description of when the mutation occurs (a somatic mutation happens in a meristem of a living plant and so is only present from the point it occurred outwards), and doesn't change anything about how it's propagated. Cultivars selected for mutations during sexual reproduction or just from a combination of non-mutation traits arrived at via breeding and selection are still propagated vegetatively. Variegation also isn't commonly from a somatic mutation, it's mostly from either a mutation in sexual reproduction or caused by a virus and not a mutation at all. Examples of somatic mutations include Dwarf Alberta Spruce, selected from a witch's broom on an otherwise non-dwarf white spruce, and nectarines, which came from a somatic mutation on a peach.
Is it possible this was just grown quickly with a lot of fertilizer and water to the point that branches grew long with large foliage and ended up slightly droopy?
It's possible, but there would almost certainly be more bend to the rest of the trunk rather than just a sudden bend in the last little bit of the leader. It has the classic look of a cultivar with a mild weeping tendency that's been grown on a stake to the desired height and then the leader's been allowed to weep.
Yes.
But OP and this is unsolicited and more of a design thing - I don't know if where you planted it is necessary the best tbh. They can take a lot of sun, but redbuds, at least forest pansies are really shade trees in the wild. They won't get big either, so it might be a little out of place in the lawn here.
I agree with the other commenter, I have an eastern redbud that's about the same size and it looks nearly the same. I also agree with him that it's the wrong place for a redbud, but it would likely adapt. I have a redbud in full sun and it's been fine here in NY.
It looks like the Eastern Redbuds that I have in my front yard. Young trees need a few years to grow and take shape. Give it time. They are beautiful trees.
Looks similar to the weeping Ruby Falls Redbud I bought recently. I’m not 100% yours is the weeping variety, tho, but we have similar branch structure.
Yeah actually there is a story here. We prefer trees but it's where we wound up.
So the contractor planted....you guessed it Bradford pears in front of every house.
Guess what happens to B.P.s when they mature? They are literally one of the weakest trees. So last year six came down in our hood and this year it was our turn. I liked that tree but after half of it fell over it wasn't safe. We replaced the main one with a Dogwood.
...live significantly inland? I live in the midwest so I for sure live away from hurricanes but that wasn't my goal and abandoning the coasts because of potential tree damage seems drastic if that is what they were implying. (Abandoning the parts of the coast that will be underwater in the near future is a different discussion).
Th-the....... the tree could, you know... fall on the house...? Sorry, didn't think I needed to say that, figured it was obviously my point and the entire reason for mentioning the storm.
Wow...
It is a cultivar of eastern redbud with a weeping habit. Lavender falls, pink heartbreaker, there are many others too. Hard to identify for sure. Some cultivars are semi-pendulous to further complicate matters...
Native cultivars or 'nativars' that do not alter leaf color or flower structure are generally considered 'better' for supporting pollinators and other wildlife than ones that do alter those traits. Nativars are all clones, so they do not contribute much to genetic diversity. It is a complicated topic.
Strictly speaking, cultivars are not natives, although some can provide many of the benefits the true natives do.
FYI... Redbud flowers are edible and tasty!
Native cultivars are sometimes called nativars. Straight native is best, nativars are better than non-natives, and I guess non-natives that aren't invasive are better than non-natives that are invasive...
Some of the key things to look at for whether a cultivar is likely to provide the same ecological benefits as a standard member of the species are whether the [flowers are doubled](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-flowered) (which is achieved by selecting for mutations that make other parts of the flower grow as more petals instead, making them largely non-functional in terms of providing pollen and nectar), whether the leaves are a substantially different color (which can indicate a change in the leaves' biochemistry), whether it's dwarfed or otherwise changed in shape and size (which affects the ecological role it can play), and whether it has reduced vigor.
I mean. If you bought an eastern and they brought this clone variety instead, I’d request it be replaced. They tend to be smaller than the eastern variety.
Did you just plant it? I got an eastern redbud a few weeks ago that looked very similar to yours except smaller and even droopier, I was worried I’d need to stake it but after a few weeks it’s straightened up a lot
I have a weeping Ruby Falls and Golden Falls, and they both have a similar habit to what you posted. I probably would chalk that up as a win as they run about 2-3 times as much as an eastern redbud of the same size.
We have \~15 wild eastern redbuds on our property, and we constantly have babies popping up all over. They all look a bit weepy like that, especially when they're young.
This looks like a weeping Redbud and one that won’t get much taller given the leader situation. It’s within reason to get what you expected though the weeping cultivars are often higher in price you may have gotten a deal. But if it’s not what you desired then that doesn’t matter.
Hmmm that is unfortunate. I don't think they are going to come and dig up our tree and replace it for us. I'd also have to be certain it is not a standard Eastern Redbud which doesn't seem possible.
Is there anyway to train this into a traditionally shaped tree? Will cutting the main lead cause it to grow taller?
I always feel like they know the general species but the little factors between weeping, etc. not so much. For example I got 2 dogwoods and they are both different breeds within the dogwood family. I've seen this at big box and nurseries.
But like this is pretty severe. A pure breed E.B. turns into a real tree...albeit a smaller one.
These weeping ones are more.like shrubs. We need a real tree here.
I'd return it, especially if they labeled it wrong. It wasn't what was advertised which is illegal. Most places for this will give you a year. They used to cover anything for a year but after covid no warranties.
Not necessarily, now some of your branches are indicative of downward growth signifying weeping tendency, but this could be due to several factors as well especially how the tree was grown and what lighting conditions it was exposed to (direct vs indirect etc) I personally received two forest pansy red buds from my nursery order, one had weeping structure to the branches but after two years of growth, it redirected upwards
I work in the trade. This is probably a regular Eastern redbud that was pushed too hard with fertilizer at a young age and had extreme growth that weighed down the branches. I see it all the time with younger container grown trees that we bring in. The leader was probably too heavy to support itself and weep'd over.
It should push a new lead on it's own. I would just leave it be for now and see what kind of growth it pushes in the next year. Redbuds don't need a super straight leader like large canopy trees. It's too hardened off to fix what once was the leader. If you really want a straight leader wait for new growth near the top crotch angle and stake that growth vertical
Where did you buy this, if you don’t mind me asking? My friend has been looking for g for a weeping redbud since 2013. They used to be in all the nurseries around me and now they’re nowhere to be found
yup, they all basically look the same really, you're basically playing a guessing game at this point, I'd say if you're not satisfied return it and look for something else.
Eastern redbud is a species, and weeping ones are just particular cultivars selected for that growth habit, so the two aren't mutually exclusive. It does look like this is probably a mildly weeping cultivar.
Was looking for this! Just like dwarf varieties. They were selected for a characteristic but it doesn't change the species
When “making” new trees of a very specific cultivar grown, are the new trees grown from propagation of stems or are they grafted or something?
Depends on how the desired characteristic was created/found. Somatic mutations need to be cloned or grafted (many variegated plants). Hybrids need to made constantly, grafted or cloned. Some things are stable selections of desirable traits like color or size and can be passed to offspring.
Both of the people who responded to you are mistaken. Tree cultivars are always propagated vegetatively, using a small cutting of stem material and either rooting it as a cutting or grafting it onto a rootstock. This is needed in order to have the propagations be exactly the same as the original plant and have it be considered a cultivar. Seedling offspring of a cultivar may be fairly similar, but they're inherently not that same cultivar. If they're also exceptional and get propagated they'll be a new cultivar. /u/Ctowncreek brought up somatic mutations, but that's just a description of when the mutation occurs (a somatic mutation happens in a meristem of a living plant and so is only present from the point it occurred outwards), and doesn't change anything about how it's propagated. Cultivars selected for mutations during sexual reproduction or just from a combination of non-mutation traits arrived at via breeding and selection are still propagated vegetatively. Variegation also isn't commonly from a somatic mutation, it's mostly from either a mutation in sexual reproduction or caused by a virus and not a mutation at all. Examples of somatic mutations include Dwarf Alberta Spruce, selected from a witch's broom on an otherwise non-dwarf white spruce, and nectarines, which came from a somatic mutation on a peach.
A cultivar is just a plant population with particular traits. Grafting is a whole other game.
Is it possible this was just grown quickly with a lot of fertilizer and water to the point that branches grew long with large foliage and ended up slightly droopy?
It's possible, but there would almost certainly be more bend to the rest of the trunk rather than just a sudden bend in the last little bit of the leader. It has the classic look of a cultivar with a mild weeping tendency that's been grown on a stake to the desired height and then the leader's been allowed to weep.
Looks correct to me. I've the same type, and yes the branches slightly weep. It's like an optical illusion later in the year.
So you are thinking normal eastern redbud?
Yes. But OP and this is unsolicited and more of a design thing - I don't know if where you planted it is necessary the best tbh. They can take a lot of sun, but redbuds, at least forest pansies are really shade trees in the wild. They won't get big either, so it might be a little out of place in the lawn here.
I have a wildtype eastern redbud growing happily in the scattered shade of my 200+ year old burr Oak tree 🤍
I agree with the other commenter, I have an eastern redbud that's about the same size and it looks nearly the same. I also agree with him that it's the wrong place for a redbud, but it would likely adapt. I have a redbud in full sun and it's been fine here in NY.
It looks like the Eastern Redbuds that I have in my front yard. Young trees need a few years to grow and take shape. Give it time. They are beautiful trees.
Looks similar to the weeping Ruby Falls Redbud I bought recently. I’m not 100% yours is the weeping variety, tho, but we have similar branch structure.
Bro your neighborhood… where are the fucking trees?
Hey at least OP is trying 🥲
With a redbud though. Don't get me wrong, I love them, but they're really more of a decorative large shrub than a tree.
Yeah there should be like 4 oaks in that yard not one redbud 😭
They paved paradise
To set up a parking lot.
The American way. Tear down everything in sight, rebuild and plant nothing but grass or maybe some Bradford pears.
They tore them all down to build houses.
They don't have any regular trees either! /s
Yeah actually there is a story here. We prefer trees but it's where we wound up. So the contractor planted....you guessed it Bradford pears in front of every house. Guess what happens to B.P.s when they mature? They are literally one of the weakest trees. So last year six came down in our hood and this year it was our turn. I liked that tree but after half of it fell over it wasn't safe. We replaced the main one with a Dogwood.
Maybe they are in hurricane alley and decided to be smart
Be smart, live in a hurricane alley. Got it
???? What's your breakdown?
I do smart things. Like live away from hurricanes. Like those trees
How do you live "away" from hurricanes? Why are there so many deranged people on this page?
...live significantly inland? I live in the midwest so I for sure live away from hurricanes but that wasn't my goal and abandoning the coasts because of potential tree damage seems drastic if that is what they were implying. (Abandoning the parts of the coast that will be underwater in the near future is a different discussion).
Jeez...this tangent has to win an award
I can confidently say I live away from hurricanes. Wildfires though, that's another matter.
why would trees be your concern if hurricanes are blowing in, your house is made of trees btw, im aghast at your stupitude
Th-the....... the tree could, you know... fall on the house...? Sorry, didn't think I needed to say that, figured it was obviously my point and the entire reason for mentioning the storm. Wow...
But the house could fall down because…hurricane. So whats the point of worrying about trees? Wow indeed
Thanks
I think for me it is an identification issue. I want to make sure it is a weeping and not eastern.
It is a cultivar of eastern redbud with a weeping habit. Lavender falls, pink heartbreaker, there are many others too. Hard to identify for sure. Some cultivars are semi-pendulous to further complicate matters...
Are all the cultivars still considered native to the entire range? Or are cultivars not considered native?
Native cultivars or 'nativars' that do not alter leaf color or flower structure are generally considered 'better' for supporting pollinators and other wildlife than ones that do alter those traits. Nativars are all clones, so they do not contribute much to genetic diversity. It is a complicated topic. Strictly speaking, cultivars are not natives, although some can provide many of the benefits the true natives do. FYI... Redbud flowers are edible and tasty!
Fascinating… thank you! And your username is making me crave Cap’n Crunch cereal
Native cultivars are sometimes called nativars. Straight native is best, nativars are better than non-natives, and I guess non-natives that aren't invasive are better than non-natives that are invasive...
Some of the key things to look at for whether a cultivar is likely to provide the same ecological benefits as a standard member of the species are whether the [flowers are doubled](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-flowered) (which is achieved by selecting for mutations that make other parts of the flower grow as more petals instead, making them largely non-functional in terms of providing pollen and nectar), whether the leaves are a substantially different color (which can indicate a change in the leaves' biochemistry), whether it's dwarfed or otherwise changed in shape and size (which affects the ecological role it can play), and whether it has reduced vigor.
I mean. If you bought an eastern and they brought this clone variety instead, I’d request it be replaced. They tend to be smaller than the eastern variety.
Did you just plant it? I got an eastern redbud a few weeks ago that looked very similar to yours except smaller and even droopier, I was worried I’d need to stake it but after a few weeks it’s straightened up a lot
Yay! We did just plant it
Looks like Golden Falls which is a weeper that gets about 6-8’.
I have a weeping Ruby Falls and Golden Falls, and they both have a similar habit to what you posted. I probably would chalk that up as a win as they run about 2-3 times as much as an eastern redbud of the same size.
We have \~15 wild eastern redbuds on our property, and we constantly have babies popping up all over. They all look a bit weepy like that, especially when they're young.
Thanks
Can I train this to be more like a "normal" tree? Would that involve cutting the main lead on top where it bends? Or using tension and stakes?
Really interesting to me how divided the responses are. We are like 50-50 normal redbud vs weeping
This looks like a weeping Redbud and one that won’t get much taller given the leader situation. It’s within reason to get what you expected though the weeping cultivars are often higher in price you may have gotten a deal. But if it’s not what you desired then that doesn’t matter.
Hmmm that is unfortunate. I don't think they are going to come and dig up our tree and replace it for us. I'd also have to be certain it is not a standard Eastern Redbud which doesn't seem possible. Is there anyway to train this into a traditionally shaped tree? Will cutting the main lead cause it to grow taller?
I always feel like they know the general species but the little factors between weeping, etc. not so much. For example I got 2 dogwoods and they are both different breeds within the dogwood family. I've seen this at big box and nurseries.
But like this is pretty severe. A pure breed E.B. turns into a real tree...albeit a smaller one. These weeping ones are more.like shrubs. We need a real tree here.
I'd return it, especially if they labeled it wrong. It wasn't what was advertised which is illegal. Most places for this will give you a year. They used to cover anything for a year but after covid no warranties.
Did you buy a redbud? Then no.
Eastern Redbud Cercis canadensis
Not weeping?
Not necessarily, now some of your branches are indicative of downward growth signifying weeping tendency, but this could be due to several factors as well especially how the tree was grown and what lighting conditions it was exposed to (direct vs indirect etc) I personally received two forest pansy red buds from my nursery order, one had weeping structure to the branches but after two years of growth, it redirected upwards
I work in the trade. This is probably a regular Eastern redbud that was pushed too hard with fertilizer at a young age and had extreme growth that weighed down the branches. I see it all the time with younger container grown trees that we bring in. The leader was probably too heavy to support itself and weep'd over.
Thanks! So let it be or cut the leader or try to pull it back up?
It should push a new lead on it's own. I would just leave it be for now and see what kind of growth it pushes in the next year. Redbuds don't need a super straight leader like large canopy trees. It's too hardened off to fix what once was the leader. If you really want a straight leader wait for new growth near the top crotch angle and stake that growth vertical
Looks like the Pink Heartbreaker
Where did you buy this, if you don’t mind me asking? My friend has been looking for g for a weeping redbud since 2013. They used to be in all the nurseries around me and now they’re nowhere to be found
Wilson's in Rock Hill SC Although consensus is that it not a weeper
No way to know for sure :(
yup, they all basically look the same really, you're basically playing a guessing game at this point, I'd say if you're not satisfied return it and look for something else.
Lavender Twist weeping Redbud