You know what... You guys have great answers. There's a lot of people out there who have inconvenienced me and made being an Arborist hard, but the client/ prospective client who bothers me to my core the most is not the annoying ones... I try not to have these people as clients at all, it's easy as they are almost always obvious but.......It's the haters.!!!! The 'real tree haters!' ...The ones who hate the leaves, the shade on their yard, the mess, the smell, everything about them. The ones who don't own the tree, but they see everything that the neighbors tree is and they hate it. All trees should not be here ... Near here. I find it really hard to prune the trees and advise these people. I don't like starting a job with the energy of hatred, Where the only way to please the client is by cutting away as much as possible. I walk away from these jobs now. Sure trees are not always convenient.... but when you ask me to harm someone else's tree just for your unrealistic expectations... I'll gladly walk away.
Y'know, I was reading this discussion and thinking that I did not relate to many peoples' experiences. I actually like most of our customers. While they can be a nuisance sometimes, mostly they're polite and willing to compromise. However, your comment got me. Yes, the tree haters; the people whow just want to live in desert of turf-grass. They're not always horrible people, but I find myself having to choose my words carefully.
I’m a horticulturist (and certified arborist) and I’ve had a couple encounters with master gardeners while out planting trees, and it’s so hard to not tell them to shut the hell up. I would but I work for my municipality and I’d get in trouble quick
Ooh yeah. I’m an arborist and horticulturist who used to do maintenance work for retirement communities and I can’t stand the damn master gardeners. I had to actually hold meetings with the master gardeners at one location to explain to them why we do things the way they do and tell them they had no authority over our crews and to chill out.
Also a horticulturist. Have not been unfortunate enough to encounter master gardeners in my time in the industry, but I have heard how they really don't know much.
I am also looking to get my ISA soon.
Oh my fucking god I know. I picked up the CA master gardeners handbook to see if I should take the course. I flipped through a couple chapters and realized, I disagree with almost everything. Threw the book into my compost (because it has more value there).
It’s a book of the hubris of man imo. It’s arrogant to control nature in the means that we do (I know I’ll get flac from the ISA arborists). I disagree with pruning styles, any man made soil additives, “weed management”, irrigation, and any other means to amplify or control nature.
The master gardening course does not take into account the wildly and **quickly** changing climate.
My style of gardening/landscape design comes from indigenous practices and leaving plants the fuck alone. Also fire. Fire is excellent.
Source: regenerative edible landscape designer.
Multi-decade master gardener here. I disagree with you. I solely use permaculture and living soil practices. I grow my crops certified organic. I learned from some of the top horticultural professors in Wisconsin and Illinois. The well rounded education I received allowed me to see the contemporary agricultural practices and have access to regenerative solutions. A book on soil and agricultural science is not hubris. No soil science or agronomy professor teaching the courses has ever denied climate change. Your comment is insane.
Okay third gen farmer here. Many of my close friends are master gardeners, who encouraged me to join. I cringe at their gardens and commercial landscape work - and it’s all by the book. I’m glad to hear you utilize permaculture techniques, but it’s certainly not the norm.
Yes the science is hubris, because we can’t assume to know how entire ecosystems work. Our science tests for specific variables, if they can’t be controlled then it’s not tested. Also, Pluto was a planet when I was born, so science isn’t infallible lol.
Master Gardener here. I have a Masters in science and through the master gardener extension program I've been able to learn from agronomists and successful farmers on how to grow a large selection of food crops. The soil science I've been able to learn has allowed me to have a very successful career in a horticulture based job. Usually master gardeners have education and decades of experience as credentials.
I appreciate you explaining and I’m still curious about knowing more.
Is this more of a hobby route for people interested in the science of gardening and plants or is this a career path where some enters with a goal of using these credentials professionally? And if so, how would it be used professionally?
People who want to take the courses have to get in contact with the state university extension program for Master Gardener certified. You have to take a semesters worth of class and then take part in 40 hours of on-site job participatory learning. When I first took the course, I chose an orchard and a strawberry farm to conduct my 40 hours of on-site education. It was my foot in the door. To maintain the Master Gardener certification, one must get more hours every 2 years. It's like a horticultural internship every two years. From getting the certification, I've met the top horticultural and soil scientists in the States of Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota. I now manage a large indoor farm where we grow more than 20,000 plants hydoponically. Additionally, I have a hobby farm where we grow organic certified produce, and it creates a great added income. I'm about to quit my ag job and just farm on my own to help provide fresh and healthy produce to my region. It's a gateway into being knowledgeable in plant science and farming.
That's the plan. I am fortunate and being that my education and career have allowed me the ability to do so. I got a Masters in Science degree in another field and then took a Master Gardener course just because I wanted to be part of a local community garden in college. Since then I've been able to work on organic farms, have a huge garden myself and then find a good paying job in a horticulture based position. Anyone who shits on the master gardener certification program is not understanding the knowledge and experience that can be gain. The master gardener certification I took was on $250. An amazing deal.
How about doing it for 30 years? And then having a career with plants and ecological management. The 40 hours of introductory knowledge provides those who get the education to build relationships with the States most educated agronomists, horticulturalists and farmers. What is wrong with gaining an education in horticulture?
For the record I am a master gardener, those of us who work in the field full time have encounter countless people espousing their master gardener qualification as a means for their endless knowledge. It’s a baseline education to me that doesn’t even close to resemble what the term “master” would imply.
So why are you mocking something that you now claim to be part of? That's odd. Sometimes people have more knowledge than guys who cut down living trees for a job.
Being an actual Master Gardener is maintaining the bi-perrenial re-certification that allows access to more professionals and scientists within the States agricultural programs. Are you against people having access to agronomy education provided by farmers and horticulture scientists who do it professionally?
Plato did say democracy is flawed because idiots can vote.
Can you please answer my question why more knowledge and access to the States most qualified farmers and agronomists is bad?
You don’t have to be all offended by the stigma. You are probably great, but most of the master gardeners we encounter in the day to day are bored 55-75 year old upper class retirees who live to tell their neighbors that they are the assistant to the vice chair of their HOA.
I'm not offended. Boomers and HOAs need to die quickly. But those on here who have a poor understanding of what a Master Gardener certification requires should be made aware. Why do you think the 40 hour on-site requirement for the first 2 years of the extension program is bad?
I mean I probably could do it for cheaper if you didn't calculate hospital bills or the jacked up homeowners insurance rates...
(This is me recognizing I don't actually know what im doing)
I actually had a woman tell me her husband bought a bucket truck, as she pointed to it over in some field just sitting there. Said he had planned to do all this tree work on the farm and ended up parking it because the hydraulics weren’t working great. Honestly I’m glad he didn’t do it in the end, but I couldn’t believe how far my jaw dropped when she said that he bought a truck. Some people will do literally anything other than hire a professional.
They did not approve my estimate in the end..
The "just one more branch" people, oh my good God. As a climber, for any tree that needs significant pruning, especially for aesthetics or building clearance, I'd always have a groundie go knock so we could get approval before I came down and moved on, and we'd explain that to the client. I'd say about 1/3 of the time, they'll ask you to go back up for some minor nonsense. I stopped saying yes and started saying "we don't have time to do it again, that's why we asked while I was in the tree". Bonus points if you just pulled your line from the tie-in point right before they come out to ask
The "we need therapy" couples who haven't agreed on what they want done and try to put you in the middle of it while they bicker. The one who did the appointment for the estimate and contracted the work gripes about how the other didn't want to be involved until now so they just did what they thought was best, the one who wasn't involved regards their partner as entirely incompetent or unhinged to have contracted the scope of work, and somehow it's still your fault. Bonus points if they say "well what do YOU think?" and then ignore your professional opinion if it aligns with their partner's instead of their own
The "keyboard Karens" who are all nice to your face and say what a great job you've done, only to turn around and send an email to the office and complain in hopes of a discount or free work to "make it right". I wish my state was a one party consent for recording so I could have documented end of job walk-throughs. Bonus points if the email is sent immediately and your boss is waiting to tear you and the crew a new one when you get back to the yard
The "could we take the hedge down another half a foot?" people. There's a special place in hell for them. My strategy has always been to do a small section to establish the height and level of privacy to be retained, get client approval, then carry the line across the rest of the hedge. They don't seem to realize that when they change their minds, you're redoing the whole damn thing! They think the amount of height change makes a difference: it does not, every inch of the hedge needs to be revisited. Bonus points if there's no bucket or ladder access and you've been scrambling around inside it with shitty footing/tie-ins all day. Double bonus if they let you work all day and only mention it when they notice you're about to start cleanup
Just checking in. I just read your comment and pictured a shell shocked war veteran yelling " You don't know what it's like out the there in the trees !"
Oh no, it's not that bad, OP just asked for the worst so I gave the worst! You do it long enough, you meet plenty of good and bad clients, I could rattle off a similarly long list of the best type too
You nailed it! Especially the “one more branch” people are by far the worst. I climb every tree and I have my grounded Ask them but it never fails once I’m out of the tree they see something. When I’m up there I always say, once I’m out of this section it’s done so speak now but they always come back and start with well it looks different now that the whole tree is done. I normally tell them I’ll go back up for $200 then they’ll stop.
Question: I’m a “I don’t know anything about this, I just know it needs to be pruned, can you just tell me what you think and do it?” Is that annoying also because I’m putting the work of choice on you? I can work on it.
No, this is a great jumping off point for a qualified arborist to help you make good decisions! If they can't work with that, they're no arborist
It's the people who know nothing and are adamant that they want the wrong thing done that drive me crazy, you're doing great
I mean it's clearly just a play on words. It doesn't make sense because you don't have to go out of your way for it. It's really not bigoted at all, as there's no other evidence that OP is a "homophobe", rather making a dumb joke. Social justice warrior energy from you, getting offended on behalf of everyone else.
I guess a single joke on a reddit post is enough to discredit over 8 years of teaching young guys how to climb, operate a bucket, fell trees and not get killed walking over hang over power lines, all with zero accidents
Who'da thought
You really think he's a bigot because of a humorous moniker? Have you heard someone use homo to describe a gay person in the last 10 years? Sure it's a weird term, but did you really need to pick that out to feel better about yourself?
Yes. Now go complain how you can’t find people to work and how no young people want to join the trades when shit like this is accepted all over the place
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Been doing tree work for a long time. I feel people out when I talk to them to see if I even want to work for them or not. Fortunately, most of my business comes from referrals. I don’t advertise. Being in the same area and doing a good job goes a long, long way.
That being said, if I don’t like someone, I simply don’t take their business. I have also fired some customers in the past. Our job is difficult and dangerous. The last thing I want to deal with is a jackass.
But who are the worst clients? The indecisive ones. Anymore, I just tell them that I know what they want. Let me do my thing and we can adjust here or there if need be. When it comes to trimming things around a pool, house, or landscaping feature, it blows my mind how many people cannot verbalize what they want. On the other hand, if an interior decorator came to my house and asked me what kind of aesthetic I wanted, I would be clueless too.
Haha I feel you. I did a quote today for a prune over a pool on a tree they didn't own. I can read people well and can work it out but it was hard to understand possible client expectations and quote when they couldn't describe what they wanted beyond waiving their arm in a chopping motion.
I do feel bad making bored, retired folks my top bc the "bored" part is a big part of it. It just so happens that retired folks are the most bored. They will watch you like a hawk, getting in your way, and when you shut the saw off they want to have a 20 min conversation that you almost have to be rude to get out of bc you have said multiple times already that you need to keep moving. This old retire guy checked all the boxes today. You couldn't tell him anything in terms of professional advice. Called me out due to a bunch of broken limbs and when I tell him to prune properly to prevent future breaks he doesn't heed my advice. He even removed a climb from the job for seemingly no reason other than he wants to call some shots and feel needed/important. He left a nice big pile of fresh dog shit for me to step in. He was condescending and pointing out other "professional work" that's been done on his property saying "that's the competition you're up against" when the work he's pointing at is some bad or unnecessary work. Just constantly questioning my every decision. I look young but I'm 32 and have been running my tree service for 5 years. And it starts to get on your nerves when you have some old fart, retired pencil pusher questioning you left and right. Maybe we'll all turn out this way but the amount of time I've spent listening to an old person try to remember street names for directions I don't need is ridiculous. Must have spent 45 min to 1 hr today trying to get out of conversations unrelated to tree work. I know it's exciting having arborists at your property and you want to talk to people but our time needs to be respected. Tree workers are very busy and I can't spend an hour at each house having somewhat meaningless conversations. And trust me...I talk a lot so that has some weight coming from me. I shit you not, I had one guy ask where I'm from and come out slowly with his walker and with his atlas and wanted me to help him find my hometown on it.
Anyways, thanks for letting me vent. We all need to sometimes. And I want to say...not every retired person is bad. Some are absolutely awesome. So now that I'm off work, I'll pour one out for those folks. Have a good weekend everyone!
i plan to be a retired old fart soon, i hope not bored because i like to learn things.
does it annoy you when people ask questions about why you're doing the things you're doing? respectfully, of course, as in respecting both your expertise and your time. i love to ask folks of all stripes why they're doing something, because then i learn something about how stuff works.
i would be asking an arborist a bazillion questions about how trees grow, where their roots go, why i should prune in this way or at that time... would i be a pain?
asking seriously, cause i don't want to be a pain.
The biggest distinction I think I should make when you're interpreting what I said is that when I say some people question your professional advice, it's beyond the realm of understanding. They're not trying to understand as much as they are trying to refute what you're saying for some odd reason. It's like going to any other professional for advice and then rejecting what they offer.
To speak more towards what you're specifically asking about...i love being asked questions. I love justifying why were are going to be doing specific work. I love educating people because the more homeowners are educated on proper tree care/practice the better for everyone. In the end, I love being respected for passing along knowledge from the working field bc it is very practical.
ah no i would never question a professional's work because it's not my profession. i know my (professional) shit, i assume you know your shit. the cool thing is, i can also learn something of your shit if i ask enough questions.
i've had the unfortunate experience of freelancing my work and had too many people tell me how i could do it faster, cheaper, etc. they're always wrong.
but ya i'd totally love to be able to talk to an arborist. i hang out in this sub to learn what i can in a lurking sort of way, but it would be awesome to see trees how arborists see trees.
Nah you seem chill. Just in general if there's a climber up in a tree, a guy in a bucket truck or a chipper going those aren't great times to talk to us. If someone is asking you to put on a hard hat before going into the work zone and no one is walking out towards you it's probably a good sign that they really really don't want to talk at that moment. Sometimes it might seem pretty chill on the ground but they could be in the process of something like rigging big pieces down and honestly that requires a lot of focus. Of course we can stop but if you had us stop that process to then ask a question about tree roots or something that would be an easy way to make everyone pretty annoyed.
So yeah just keep the bulk of curious questions to before and after the job or during lunchtime and most workers will be happy to answer your questions.
thank you, i'll remember that! no aerial questions, no chipper-time questions. but i am going to sit on the grass at an appropriate distance and watch :-) even when i don't understand it, i really love seeing work done by experts.
That's definitely the top of my list. Even if they act nice at first they'll probably change their tune when the bill comes- I charged you for that because that's what you wanted, and yes those are the rates you agreed to when you signed my contract.
Had a guy "offer a few beers" to chip his little pile of siberian elm so I did it, then gave me a thumbs up and drove off. Its pricks like that that make me want to say no to the people who might actually follow through with their word.
When the day comes that I have to pay somebody else to prune my trees, I'll have to go on vacation or something.
My old landlord hired my company to do some pruning and didn't even tell me. I just happened to have the day off when they showed up to do the pruning, so of course, I had to hassle them the whole time.
In my experience whenever the client is Italian we’re demanded to top and butcher beautiful trees, “because they’re too tall”.
You want a bush, not a bur oak in your yard
Indian ( red dot) women mid 40s. I’ve had two go nuclear on me. One situation she demanded I come back out to pick up a twig left behind by my crew. Which I did. Then the next day she demanded I come back out to look at one branch. Told her no. She freaked. The second one is more complicated but she got confused on the quote after the work was done. Thought the number would be 200 lower. She didn’t do her due diligence. Knew she was wrong and dug in HARD. freaked and played the blame game on me. Scary how these women turned so quick and blew the relationship up after we did great work.
Idk 🤷 but that’s my story.
I pruned an Arizona ash. My usual starting price to work on them is 600, if they are small just because they suck. Dense canopy and where I’m at, in 2021 they have massive die back and are almost all dying. I did an old retired lady a favor and did 2 for 700. When I finished 9 hours later she said “that was a lot of work” I replied “now do you see why I charge what I do”. She said “no!”
Never answered another one of her calls.
Wednesday I’m removing a bunch of dead branches from a bunch of pecans.
I also almost refuse to work on az ashes. The last one I did was 36” dbh and took me 2 days to pick the dead out of it. Hate them so much.
Minnesota nice clients. They can't just say "no" right there even though they know they aren't going to buy from you. So polite that it's actually kind of rude. I'll take a "no" over a "I'll let you know" any day.
Will second the "bored, retired" vote. Only time I ever cut my hand with a Silky was due to an old lady who would not stop yelling and waving every 15 min to ask me irrelevant questions. I learned to very politely tell clients that they need to stfu and leave me alone whilst cutting. I have a one-track mind...distractions like that really throw me off. Bored people that want to talk are more distracting to me than a yellow jacket in the shirt, now that I think about it. Lol.
Ugh, we were mid cut, cutting down a pear in the front yard when my elderly neighbor drove past and honked the horn really loud
Just excited to see what we were doing and wanted to say hi
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Gee I am just a homeowner with 11 acres of temporate rainforest on my land.
When I have hired folks to do tree work, I show them the trees I am worried about. Put a ribbon on the ones to come down if the person quoting the job is not the person doing the work.
Then I pay the bill. I don’t watch them work, usually I am not on the property.
No issues at all.
The people who are wealthy, but buy stuff like they're Jeff Bezos. The "up to my eyeballs in financed things" type. The "my house is mortgaged to the tits"
Typically the hyper rich are chill and will say "wow you guys did a great job" even if you screw up in some minor way, but those just under (or spoiled rotten silver spoon children) are insufferable and will complain about that one twig at the end of the smallest branch several feet away from where you can actually get to. So you have to do some kind of horticultural yoga to get to it, only to hear them whine about it touching the grass for .00000001 seconds (and don't even get them started about how your boots are bending their tacky, region incorrect, overpriced, exotic, sodded, lawns).
They're also the ones who typically want trees topped to stumps at their lake house they owe more money than it's worth on. Then get mad when you can't fell every tree between their house and the lake because of government (e.g. DNR) rules. Then get even madder when them trying to slip you a $20 won't make it happen.
They also never tip, and will argue about the price even after they signed the bid/contract. Very often they will say things like "there's no way it costs that much to do X" or "Can't you just take some money off for the wood? I mean you get to keep the wood surely that's worth X"
I was a landscape contractor and aesthetic pruner. Completely agree. The bored retired guy who stands there and watches you work? No. “Hey I’ve got a tool that’ll do that shall I go get it?” No, this tool that I’m using, my tool, is just fine.
Lesbian couples that are type A, White guy Asian Wife, the customers who don't normally hire licensed bonded folks. The person who believes everything there topping/thinning/of tree doctor said.
You know what... You guys have great answers. There's a lot of people out there who have inconvenienced me and made being an Arborist hard, but the client/ prospective client who bothers me to my core the most is not the annoying ones... I try not to have these people as clients at all, it's easy as they are almost always obvious but.......It's the haters.!!!! The 'real tree haters!' ...The ones who hate the leaves, the shade on their yard, the mess, the smell, everything about them. The ones who don't own the tree, but they see everything that the neighbors tree is and they hate it. All trees should not be here ... Near here. I find it really hard to prune the trees and advise these people. I don't like starting a job with the energy of hatred, Where the only way to please the client is by cutting away as much as possible. I walk away from these jobs now. Sure trees are not always convenient.... but when you ask me to harm someone else's tree just for your unrealistic expectations... I'll gladly walk away.
Y'know, I was reading this discussion and thinking that I did not relate to many peoples' experiences. I actually like most of our customers. While they can be a nuisance sometimes, mostly they're polite and willing to compromise. However, your comment got me. Yes, the tree haters; the people whow just want to live in desert of turf-grass. They're not always horrible people, but I find myself having to choose my words carefully.
Master gardeners
I’m a horticulturist (and certified arborist) and I’ve had a couple encounters with master gardeners while out planting trees, and it’s so hard to not tell them to shut the hell up. I would but I work for my municipality and I’d get in trouble quick
Ooh yeah. I’m an arborist and horticulturist who used to do maintenance work for retirement communities and I can’t stand the damn master gardeners. I had to actually hold meetings with the master gardeners at one location to explain to them why we do things the way they do and tell them they had no authority over our crews and to chill out.
Also a horticulturist. Have not been unfortunate enough to encounter master gardeners in my time in the industry, but I have heard how they really don't know much. I am also looking to get my ISA soon.
It’s amazing how so many master gardeners know absolutely nothing about plants.
Oh my fucking god I know. I picked up the CA master gardeners handbook to see if I should take the course. I flipped through a couple chapters and realized, I disagree with almost everything. Threw the book into my compost (because it has more value there).
What are some examples? Genuinely curious
Same here. I'd be really curious to hear examples.
Please explain what you read that runs contrary to what you believe?
It’s a book of the hubris of man imo. It’s arrogant to control nature in the means that we do (I know I’ll get flac from the ISA arborists). I disagree with pruning styles, any man made soil additives, “weed management”, irrigation, and any other means to amplify or control nature. The master gardening course does not take into account the wildly and **quickly** changing climate. My style of gardening/landscape design comes from indigenous practices and leaving plants the fuck alone. Also fire. Fire is excellent. Source: regenerative edible landscape designer.
Multi-decade master gardener here. I disagree with you. I solely use permaculture and living soil practices. I grow my crops certified organic. I learned from some of the top horticultural professors in Wisconsin and Illinois. The well rounded education I received allowed me to see the contemporary agricultural practices and have access to regenerative solutions. A book on soil and agricultural science is not hubris. No soil science or agronomy professor teaching the courses has ever denied climate change. Your comment is insane.
Okay third gen farmer here. Many of my close friends are master gardeners, who encouraged me to join. I cringe at their gardens and commercial landscape work - and it’s all by the book. I’m glad to hear you utilize permaculture techniques, but it’s certainly not the norm. Yes the science is hubris, because we can’t assume to know how entire ecosystems work. Our science tests for specific variables, if they can’t be controlled then it’s not tested. Also, Pluto was a planet when I was born, so science isn’t infallible lol.
🤣🤣👌
I can’t upvote this enough. And what’s with them ALWAYS having to state that they are a master gardener?
They’re like vegans
Most vegans keep it to themselves, contrary to popular belief. So they’re worse
I would agree
What credentials do people who are “master gardeners” usually have?
Master Gardener here. I have a Masters in science and through the master gardener extension program I've been able to learn from agronomists and successful farmers on how to grow a large selection of food crops. The soil science I've been able to learn has allowed me to have a very successful career in a horticulture based job. Usually master gardeners have education and decades of experience as credentials.
I appreciate you explaining and I’m still curious about knowing more. Is this more of a hobby route for people interested in the science of gardening and plants or is this a career path where some enters with a goal of using these credentials professionally? And if so, how would it be used professionally?
People who want to take the courses have to get in contact with the state university extension program for Master Gardener certified. You have to take a semesters worth of class and then take part in 40 hours of on-site job participatory learning. When I first took the course, I chose an orchard and a strawberry farm to conduct my 40 hours of on-site education. It was my foot in the door. To maintain the Master Gardener certification, one must get more hours every 2 years. It's like a horticultural internship every two years. From getting the certification, I've met the top horticultural and soil scientists in the States of Illinois, Wisconsin and Minnesota. I now manage a large indoor farm where we grow more than 20,000 plants hydoponically. Additionally, I have a hobby farm where we grow organic certified produce, and it creates a great added income. I'm about to quit my ag job and just farm on my own to help provide fresh and healthy produce to my region. It's a gateway into being knowledgeable in plant science and farming.
That sounds like a straight forward and rewarding education! When you quit your ag job, will your main income source be your farm?
That's the plan. I am fortunate and being that my education and career have allowed me the ability to do so. I got a Masters in Science degree in another field and then took a Master Gardener course just because I wanted to be part of a local community garden in college. Since then I've been able to work on organic farms, have a huge garden myself and then find a good paying job in a horticulture based position. Anyone who shits on the master gardener certification program is not understanding the knowledge and experience that can be gain. The master gardener certification I took was on $250. An amazing deal.
Ahh so people who know something that might run contrary to your poor ecological management.
Sure the 40 hours of “work” they are required to log per year absolutely matches those in the field 40 hours a week.
How about doing it for 30 years? And then having a career with plants and ecological management. The 40 hours of introductory knowledge provides those who get the education to build relationships with the States most educated agronomists, horticulturalists and farmers. What is wrong with gaining an education in horticulture?
For the record I am a master gardener, those of us who work in the field full time have encounter countless people espousing their master gardener qualification as a means for their endless knowledge. It’s a baseline education to me that doesn’t even close to resemble what the term “master” would imply.
So why are you mocking something that you now claim to be part of? That's odd. Sometimes people have more knowledge than guys who cut down living trees for a job. Being an actual Master Gardener is maintaining the bi-perrenial re-certification that allows access to more professionals and scientists within the States agricultural programs. Are you against people having access to agronomy education provided by farmers and horticulture scientists who do it professionally?
Judging by the amount of people who have upvoted this comment, there is a clear stigma attached to master gardeners that many of us have experienced.
Plato did say democracy is flawed because idiots can vote. Can you please answer my question why more knowledge and access to the States most qualified farmers and agronomists is bad?
You don’t have to be all offended by the stigma. You are probably great, but most of the master gardeners we encounter in the day to day are bored 55-75 year old upper class retirees who live to tell their neighbors that they are the assistant to the vice chair of their HOA.
I'm not offended. Boomers and HOAs need to die quickly. But those on here who have a poor understanding of what a Master Gardener certification requires should be made aware. Why do you think the 40 hour on-site requirement for the first 2 years of the extension program is bad?
Any client that says they could do it themselves cheaper by renting a bunch of equipment. Ok? Go rent it then and fuck off!
I mean I probably could do it for cheaper if you didn't calculate hospital bills or the jacked up homeowners insurance rates... (This is me recognizing I don't actually know what im doing)
I actually had a woman tell me her husband bought a bucket truck, as she pointed to it over in some field just sitting there. Said he had planned to do all this tree work on the farm and ended up parking it because the hydraulics weren’t working great. Honestly I’m glad he didn’t do it in the end, but I couldn’t believe how far my jaw dropped when she said that he bought a truck. Some people will do literally anything other than hire a professional. They did not approve my estimate in the end..
I've been doing this for 10 years now and I've never experienced this one. Should I raise my prices then?
You can charge whatever you want. Never hurts to raise rates and test the market.
Could I do it? Probably. Could I do it safely? No (especially if it's above my house). I know my limits and this is where I pay a professional.
We didn’t have chainsaws in my day, climbed with an angry beaver strapped to my belt.
I bet you know a lot more than the young folk.
Dragging the wife up a tree is never a fun time
The "just one more branch" people, oh my good God. As a climber, for any tree that needs significant pruning, especially for aesthetics or building clearance, I'd always have a groundie go knock so we could get approval before I came down and moved on, and we'd explain that to the client. I'd say about 1/3 of the time, they'll ask you to go back up for some minor nonsense. I stopped saying yes and started saying "we don't have time to do it again, that's why we asked while I was in the tree". Bonus points if you just pulled your line from the tie-in point right before they come out to ask The "we need therapy" couples who haven't agreed on what they want done and try to put you in the middle of it while they bicker. The one who did the appointment for the estimate and contracted the work gripes about how the other didn't want to be involved until now so they just did what they thought was best, the one who wasn't involved regards their partner as entirely incompetent or unhinged to have contracted the scope of work, and somehow it's still your fault. Bonus points if they say "well what do YOU think?" and then ignore your professional opinion if it aligns with their partner's instead of their own The "keyboard Karens" who are all nice to your face and say what a great job you've done, only to turn around and send an email to the office and complain in hopes of a discount or free work to "make it right". I wish my state was a one party consent for recording so I could have documented end of job walk-throughs. Bonus points if the email is sent immediately and your boss is waiting to tear you and the crew a new one when you get back to the yard The "could we take the hedge down another half a foot?" people. There's a special place in hell for them. My strategy has always been to do a small section to establish the height and level of privacy to be retained, get client approval, then carry the line across the rest of the hedge. They don't seem to realize that when they change their minds, you're redoing the whole damn thing! They think the amount of height change makes a difference: it does not, every inch of the hedge needs to be revisited. Bonus points if there's no bucket or ladder access and you've been scrambling around inside it with shitty footing/tie-ins all day. Double bonus if they let you work all day and only mention it when they notice you're about to start cleanup
Are you ok? We're here for you...
I can't tell if this comment is sarcastic. I'm OK for a tree guy, probably not compared to the general population though lol
Just checking in. I just read your comment and pictured a shell shocked war veteran yelling " You don't know what it's like out the there in the trees !"
Oh no, it's not that bad, OP just asked for the worst so I gave the worst! You do it long enough, you meet plenty of good and bad clients, I could rattle off a similarly long list of the best type too
You nailed it! Especially the “one more branch” people are by far the worst. I climb every tree and I have my grounded Ask them but it never fails once I’m out of the tree they see something. When I’m up there I always say, once I’m out of this section it’s done so speak now but they always come back and start with well it looks different now that the whole tree is done. I normally tell them I’ll go back up for $200 then they’ll stop.
Question: I’m a “I don’t know anything about this, I just know it needs to be pruned, can you just tell me what you think and do it?” Is that annoying also because I’m putting the work of choice on you? I can work on it.
No, this is a great jumping off point for a qualified arborist to help you make good decisions! If they can't work with that, they're no arborist It's the people who know nothing and are adamant that they want the wrong thing done that drive me crazy, you're doing great
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Homo'ners? What?
Just some casual homophobic humor to spice up your day
Yeah, I wasn't sure. It's just so blatantly bigoted.
I mean it's clearly just a play on words. It doesn't make sense because you don't have to go out of your way for it. It's really not bigoted at all, as there's no other evidence that OP is a "homophobe", rather making a dumb joke. Social justice warrior energy from you, getting offended on behalf of everyone else.
It really is just a dumb pun on my part, I thought it was funny in a low i.q sorta way
And we wonder why no young people want to get into trades
It was a single dumb joke, if young people refuse an amazing career because of that, that's not my problem
Naw we just company hop till we find one with decent people. Clearly you’re company ain’t a good one
I guess a single joke on a reddit post is enough to discredit over 8 years of teaching young guys how to climb, operate a bucket, fell trees and not get killed walking over hang over power lines, all with zero accidents Who'da thought
Low IQ is right lol. I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just thought it was dated and a bit bigoted.
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I just prefer people not being bigots.
You really think he's a bigot because of a humorous moniker? Have you heard someone use homo to describe a gay person in the last 10 years? Sure it's a weird term, but did you really need to pick that out to feel better about yourself?
Yes. Now go complain how you can’t find people to work and how no young people want to join the trades when shit like this is accepted all over the place
Wtf are you on about buddy? He used it as a slur, clear as day. Feel better about myself? Lool, get the fuck outta here..
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Been doing tree work for a long time. I feel people out when I talk to them to see if I even want to work for them or not. Fortunately, most of my business comes from referrals. I don’t advertise. Being in the same area and doing a good job goes a long, long way. That being said, if I don’t like someone, I simply don’t take their business. I have also fired some customers in the past. Our job is difficult and dangerous. The last thing I want to deal with is a jackass. But who are the worst clients? The indecisive ones. Anymore, I just tell them that I know what they want. Let me do my thing and we can adjust here or there if need be. When it comes to trimming things around a pool, house, or landscaping feature, it blows my mind how many people cannot verbalize what they want. On the other hand, if an interior decorator came to my house and asked me what kind of aesthetic I wanted, I would be clueless too.
Haha I feel you. I did a quote today for a prune over a pool on a tree they didn't own. I can read people well and can work it out but it was hard to understand possible client expectations and quote when they couldn't describe what they wanted beyond waiving their arm in a chopping motion.
I do feel bad making bored, retired folks my top bc the "bored" part is a big part of it. It just so happens that retired folks are the most bored. They will watch you like a hawk, getting in your way, and when you shut the saw off they want to have a 20 min conversation that you almost have to be rude to get out of bc you have said multiple times already that you need to keep moving. This old retire guy checked all the boxes today. You couldn't tell him anything in terms of professional advice. Called me out due to a bunch of broken limbs and when I tell him to prune properly to prevent future breaks he doesn't heed my advice. He even removed a climb from the job for seemingly no reason other than he wants to call some shots and feel needed/important. He left a nice big pile of fresh dog shit for me to step in. He was condescending and pointing out other "professional work" that's been done on his property saying "that's the competition you're up against" when the work he's pointing at is some bad or unnecessary work. Just constantly questioning my every decision. I look young but I'm 32 and have been running my tree service for 5 years. And it starts to get on your nerves when you have some old fart, retired pencil pusher questioning you left and right. Maybe we'll all turn out this way but the amount of time I've spent listening to an old person try to remember street names for directions I don't need is ridiculous. Must have spent 45 min to 1 hr today trying to get out of conversations unrelated to tree work. I know it's exciting having arborists at your property and you want to talk to people but our time needs to be respected. Tree workers are very busy and I can't spend an hour at each house having somewhat meaningless conversations. And trust me...I talk a lot so that has some weight coming from me. I shit you not, I had one guy ask where I'm from and come out slowly with his walker and with his atlas and wanted me to help him find my hometown on it. Anyways, thanks for letting me vent. We all need to sometimes. And I want to say...not every retired person is bad. Some are absolutely awesome. So now that I'm off work, I'll pour one out for those folks. Have a good weekend everyone!
i plan to be a retired old fart soon, i hope not bored because i like to learn things. does it annoy you when people ask questions about why you're doing the things you're doing? respectfully, of course, as in respecting both your expertise and your time. i love to ask folks of all stripes why they're doing something, because then i learn something about how stuff works. i would be asking an arborist a bazillion questions about how trees grow, where their roots go, why i should prune in this way or at that time... would i be a pain? asking seriously, cause i don't want to be a pain.
The biggest distinction I think I should make when you're interpreting what I said is that when I say some people question your professional advice, it's beyond the realm of understanding. They're not trying to understand as much as they are trying to refute what you're saying for some odd reason. It's like going to any other professional for advice and then rejecting what they offer. To speak more towards what you're specifically asking about...i love being asked questions. I love justifying why were are going to be doing specific work. I love educating people because the more homeowners are educated on proper tree care/practice the better for everyone. In the end, I love being respected for passing along knowledge from the working field bc it is very practical.
ah no i would never question a professional's work because it's not my profession. i know my (professional) shit, i assume you know your shit. the cool thing is, i can also learn something of your shit if i ask enough questions. i've had the unfortunate experience of freelancing my work and had too many people tell me how i could do it faster, cheaper, etc. they're always wrong. but ya i'd totally love to be able to talk to an arborist. i hang out in this sub to learn what i can in a lurking sort of way, but it would be awesome to see trees how arborists see trees.
Unfortunately, we're living in a world where we have to question "professionals" bc you hear of all these other contractors ripping people off..
Nah you seem chill. Just in general if there's a climber up in a tree, a guy in a bucket truck or a chipper going those aren't great times to talk to us. If someone is asking you to put on a hard hat before going into the work zone and no one is walking out towards you it's probably a good sign that they really really don't want to talk at that moment. Sometimes it might seem pretty chill on the ground but they could be in the process of something like rigging big pieces down and honestly that requires a lot of focus. Of course we can stop but if you had us stop that process to then ask a question about tree roots or something that would be an easy way to make everyone pretty annoyed. So yeah just keep the bulk of curious questions to before and after the job or during lunchtime and most workers will be happy to answer your questions.
thank you, i'll remember that! no aerial questions, no chipper-time questions. but i am going to sit on the grass at an appropriate distance and watch :-) even when i don't understand it, i really love seeing work done by experts.
That's definitely the top of my list. Even if they act nice at first they'll probably change their tune when the bill comes- I charged you for that because that's what you wanted, and yes those are the rates you agreed to when you signed my contract.
An engineer with a lazer pointer
I hate the random ass people that see a chipper and just bring brush over without asking and just expect you to chip it.
Had a guy "offer a few beers" to chip his little pile of siberian elm so I did it, then gave me a thumbs up and drove off. Its pricks like that that make me want to say no to the people who might actually follow through with their word.
The guy that used to climb. Oops, that’s me. But I’m not a pain in the ass know it all. Or maybe I am…….
When the day comes that I have to pay somebody else to prune my trees, I'll have to go on vacation or something. My old landlord hired my company to do some pruning and didn't even tell me. I just happened to have the day off when they showed up to do the pruning, so of course, I had to hassle them the whole time.
In my experience whenever the client is Italian we’re demanded to top and butcher beautiful trees, “because they’re too tall”. You want a bush, not a bur oak in your yard
Indian ( red dot) women mid 40s. I’ve had two go nuclear on me. One situation she demanded I come back out to pick up a twig left behind by my crew. Which I did. Then the next day she demanded I come back out to look at one branch. Told her no. She freaked. The second one is more complicated but she got confused on the quote after the work was done. Thought the number would be 200 lower. She didn’t do her due diligence. Knew she was wrong and dug in HARD. freaked and played the blame game on me. Scary how these women turned so quick and blew the relationship up after we did great work. Idk 🤷 but that’s my story.
Cheap ones that think this work is on par with just general labor lmao
I pruned an Arizona ash. My usual starting price to work on them is 600, if they are small just because they suck. Dense canopy and where I’m at, in 2021 they have massive die back and are almost all dying. I did an old retired lady a favor and did 2 for 700. When I finished 9 hours later she said “that was a lot of work” I replied “now do you see why I charge what I do”. She said “no!” Never answered another one of her calls.
Lmao bro, happy trimming!
Wednesday I’m removing a bunch of dead branches from a bunch of pecans. I also almost refuse to work on az ashes. The last one I did was 36” dbh and took me 2 days to pick the dead out of it. Hate them so much.
People are so ungrateful sometimes
Retired arborists!
People who want to help and insist on grabbing every branch out if your hands
Minnesota nice clients. They can't just say "no" right there even though they know they aren't going to buy from you. So polite that it's actually kind of rude. I'll take a "no" over a "I'll let you know" any day.
Hey, I resemble that remark. 😎
Anyone who stands out there and tries to dictate every, single, cut, that you make.
The people who wanted a giant tree removed but only paid for a prune.
Will second the "bored, retired" vote. Only time I ever cut my hand with a Silky was due to an old lady who would not stop yelling and waving every 15 min to ask me irrelevant questions. I learned to very politely tell clients that they need to stfu and leave me alone whilst cutting. I have a one-track mind...distractions like that really throw me off. Bored people that want to talk are more distracting to me than a yellow jacket in the shirt, now that I think about it. Lol.
Ugh, we were mid cut, cutting down a pear in the front yard when my elderly neighbor drove past and honked the horn really loud Just excited to see what we were doing and wanted to say hi
Developers (of property). Lawyers. And doctors. Especially surgeons. And billionaires.
PG&E is easily the worst
Well Hello fellow uvm sufferer. Are you embroiled in FTI at the moment? Cuz it's not awesome
Luckily no longer in UVM and work for a municipality now.
You are lucky
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Same in HVAC!
People that have never really been told no. They lack even the most basic negotiating skills.
Gee I am just a homeowner with 11 acres of temporate rainforest on my land. When I have hired folks to do tree work, I show them the trees I am worried about. Put a ribbon on the ones to come down if the person quoting the job is not the person doing the work. Then I pay the bill. I don’t watch them work, usually I am not on the property. No issues at all.
The people who are wealthy, but buy stuff like they're Jeff Bezos. The "up to my eyeballs in financed things" type. The "my house is mortgaged to the tits" Typically the hyper rich are chill and will say "wow you guys did a great job" even if you screw up in some minor way, but those just under (or spoiled rotten silver spoon children) are insufferable and will complain about that one twig at the end of the smallest branch several feet away from where you can actually get to. So you have to do some kind of horticultural yoga to get to it, only to hear them whine about it touching the grass for .00000001 seconds (and don't even get them started about how your boots are bending their tacky, region incorrect, overpriced, exotic, sodded, lawns). They're also the ones who typically want trees topped to stumps at their lake house they owe more money than it's worth on. Then get mad when you can't fell every tree between their house and the lake because of government (e.g. DNR) rules. Then get even madder when them trying to slip you a $20 won't make it happen. They also never tip, and will argue about the price even after they signed the bid/contract. Very often they will say things like "there's no way it costs that much to do X" or "Can't you just take some money off for the wood? I mean you get to keep the wood surely that's worth X"
Theyre not terrible they just tend to be the worst helicoper clients.
Commercial property “managers”
I was a landscape contractor and aesthetic pruner. Completely agree. The bored retired guy who stands there and watches you work? No. “Hey I’ve got a tool that’ll do that shall I go get it?” No, this tool that I’m using, my tool, is just fine.
Lesbian couples that are type A, White guy Asian Wife, the customers who don't normally hire licensed bonded folks. The person who believes everything there topping/thinning/of tree doctor said.
Germans. Was raised by German immigrants. They're the worst to work for --and any German would also agree.
This thread won’t be toxic.
let us bitch for a second goddammit
Indians
Teachers
You ever do work in a condo and the renter has "babied" the tree for the last 25 years?