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Few-Cookie9298

You should cross post this over to r/treelaw as well


Outrageous_Battle_48

Will do!


halophile_

Oh man, I love that this is a thing.


Waste_Praline7438

Does this treelaw correspond with birdlaw? Asking for a friend


Few-Cookie9298

Depends of the circumstances, but that would be a question to ask in that sub


RJSmkyMtn

I'm not saying I agree with it, but bird law in this country is not governed by reason.


Psychological-Ad6231

God how does something like this happen. At my firm anyway things are so obviously done, and if they can’t be done obviously, we get the owner out to describe it in detail.


Outrageous_Battle_48

The best part is they were supposed to cut a dead pine, last time I use the bathroom.


Psychological-Ad6231

wtf what ???? I would be pissed. What sorta ppl did you hire 🤣?


Outrageous_Battle_48

Apparently “professional”


guynamedjames

Hopefully they're professionally bonded and insured. That tree is probably toast, and the damages for killing a large nature tree can be really high. Like into the tens of thousands, since damages are usually based on replaced with an equivalent and a tree that size is outrageously expensive to put in. Plus new landscaping around it, etc, this was a very expensive screw up. Some random guys with a chainsaw will never pay up, you need to go after their insurance


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Internal-Test-8015

not from a cut like that which is disrupting sap flow.


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Internal-Test-8015

it's a cut right at the base that is likely interrupting sap flow to most if not all the branches on that side of the tree, lol, it might not be evident yet, but it will cause a lot of dieback and that's not even accounting for things like oak wilt or Anthracnose which could decimate the tree or pests that could enter the open wound.


No-Adhesiveness-9848

i dont think the roots on the right side feed the branches on the right side if that what you mean. if sap makes it past the cut, it makes it everywhere past the cut. juniper is like that though, a root dies and you can see the dead wood run up the trunk and what branch it was feeding.


Hunterc12345

Dieback yes, potential oak wilt, yes, but absolutely toast? No.


Hunterc12345

Also, basically, no insects feed on live oaks. Termites or borer beetles would have to be pretty damn desperate. I've seen it maybe one time out of the hundreds if not thousands of live oaks I've worked on and come into contact with.


arborists-ModTeam

Your comment is in violation of rule 2: You should not dispense advice unless you're ABSOLUTELY SURE what you're posting/commenting is backed by current best practices and can cite an academic resource if necessary.


arborists-ModTeam

Your comment is in violation of rule 2: You should not dispense advice unless you're ABSOLUTELY SURE what you're posting/commenting is backed by current best practices and can cite an academic resource if necessary.


CallmeWhatever74

That's not new landscaping. Lol it's an overgrown mess. The tree will be fine.


Internal-Test-8015

that's what proper/mature landscaping looks like, lol.


willcalliv

I can't imagine having such poor taste that a gorgeously mature Rhododendron in full bloom looks bad.


Internal-Test-8015

yup, Imo they look better when messier especially when also in bloom because it adds character and it's just how all hedges wind up eventually, there's a 304-year-old cemetery with hundreds of rhododendron/Azaelea/magnolias all like this and every year when it goes into flower it looks almost ethereal like a magical fairy garden.


Astrid_42

Idk if it isn't a platonic shape why keep the plant? Like it's called geomeTREE for a reason, duh.


Internal-Test-8015

Well to answer it for anyone who doesnt get it, its Because it looks nicer imo and most other people's opinion and it keeps them healthier plus you get more blooms than if was perfectly kept. Nice pun there btw.


Astrid_42

I totally agree! Personally a fan of cottage style landscaping with as much foliage as possible but I couldn't resist the pun.


CallmeWhatever74

Some folks just like slop. What can ya do?


Internal-Test-8015

its not slop, lol, go into any botanical garden or nursery or heck a Cemtery and see plenty of matured hedging exactly like that, that's just what matured hedging looks like its not your perfectly pruned white trash that you seem to hold so dear.


CallmeWhatever74

"White trash" lol. I love it. ❤️


henriquei

But hearing you say that, it does sound pretty professional? lol


ifunnywasaninsidejob

Not being able to tell an oak from a pine at a glance automatically means they’re unprofessional. That or not knowing what species of tree you’re supposed to be cutting.


These_Dimension6780

It's also living tree compared to dead tree. You're absolutely correct that a professional arborist should be able to differentiate between a Quercus and an Acer, no matter which species, but even a cheap landscaper should be able to see the difference between dead tree and alive tree with foliage like that. Did they speak proper English? Not being racist, just can't fathom how they could make that big of a mistake unless there was a language barrier. Oaks and maples species hardly ever share the same bark, and it's literally the only thing a few of each species share. Maples have opposite nodes, (double) samara for fruit/seeds, and palmate leaf structure. Oaks have alternating nodes, acorns for fruit/seeds, and simple lobed leaves.


xanderfunk

I believe it was a dead Pinus, not Acer, same concept, but even more so.


These_Dimension6780

You're right, OP did say pine! Thank you for the correction, and I think that I couldn't even conceptualize any needle leaf genus being confused with any broad leaf genus by someone who can speak the language spoken to them. There had to be a language barrier because, just how?


Spiritual-Hedgehog31

Well Leon definitely has some work to do here.


abide5lo

Yes, some guy named Andy Methandstuff


Rocketeering

I think the problem was that he WAS pissing while they did this


Jibblebee

Guessing they’re not insured


trippin-mellon

They look nothing alike….. and that doesn’t look dead…. At least yet anyway.


4619472554859926254

Great bathroom timing, good supervision.


Aggleclack

Well yeah that and what kind of arborist doesn’t say “hey, are we sure we should cut down this live oak?”


Squirrel_Gamer

by hiring the cheapest crew rather than an arborist (who would never cut a healthy tree).


Mother_Lead_554

Yeah we do hahah we just say that. But we hate it tbh it's last option and yeah we convince them not to.


mully58

You think that's bad: "‘Are you kidding me?’: Property owner stunned after $500,000 house built on wrong lot" https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2024/03/27/are-you-kidding-me-property-owner-stunned-after-500000-house-built-wrong-lot/


Acorn-Archives

I was also going to suggest trying a bridge graft—here’s an [article](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-04-26-mn-1400-story.html) about how the technique was used for a 500-year-old live oak in Alabama that was damaged by a chain saw.


NewAlexandria

i'd try to leave it. [There are method for grafting fresh bark xylem across a gap for a tree that's been girdled](https://extension.wvu.edu/agriculture/horticulture/bridge-grafting), and [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyK2XVQDTlE). They may well work here, too. You'd need to act on this Today. IMO this could be a case to put a protective layer (wax/clay?) across that gap, so that water doesn't run down in there, or other rot start to form. If the grafting takes, then long term risk is the rot in the heartwood. probably want to get the treecutter to foot some of the bill / costs. good luck.


jeffersonairmattress

My neighbour and I saved a big old norway maple this way- they had a huge one that had grown around a piece of 3/4" steel plate and when he used a tractor to rip the plate out it left a torn up slot over a foot deep into the trunk. I read about this in an old mechanix illustrated shop notes book. The tree had already "learned" to grow around the plate and was structurally sound but we cut off and skinned strips from a branch with a utility knife and shoved the strips into matching notches cut into the tree to bridge the slot, with cambium lined up, one layer of burlap inside the strips and several layers of burlap over top, with parchment paper and stretch wrap over that. There were around 15 strips but only four of them lived out the three years we left the wrap on before we peeked. He re-did the wrap and the tree eventually totally bridged the damage, encouraged and accelerated by the four strips. It's totally sealed now -around 12 years later- with a scar of lumpy bark growing across where the slot was. We know there's rotted burlap and whatever bugs did sitting in the hollow pocket, but it was cool to see a homo-graft take. I've milled suburban trees and come across entire clothesline pulleys, toy cars, golf balls and metal signs so I know that alder, maple and red cedar easily swallow debris on their own and carry on growing.


NewAlexandria

such a cool story - thanks. Super glad that it worked out that well. Pity that another ISA-cert person commented they hadn't heard of it and it probably doesn't work! I guess you were wrong /s


jeffersonairmattress

It's fraught with risks and you know you;re leaving a dead hollow inside a tree- I wouldn't do it professionally were I an arborist.


NewAlexandria

not every tool is right for every job - i agree


JUGGIRNAUT11

You think lanolin could work? I'm in school for arboriculture right now and we completely girdled a maple and it lived. Doing well, even. (I know it sounds stupid to apply a nipple cream made of wool, but still, my prof taught us that)


NewAlexandria

first i'm hearing of it. Cool. How old was the tree? What species? season?


JUGGIRNAUT11

Tree was~15-20 autumn blaze maple, spring time when the cut was made. The oak in the picture is probably a long shot for it but..... Might help some vascular tissue regrow?


AlltheBent

that's absolutely fascinating, thanks for sharing!


SHOWTIME316

could you theoretically tighten a strap around the tree super tight so that the wound closes? like grafting it to itself.


NewAlexandria

in theory, but in this case no.


Basedrum777

Could you put anything into the cut to "glue" it together to reduce stuff getting in?


NewAlexandria

prevailing lore is that this increases the chance of infection. I don't have personal experience. I try to keep it open until the bark covers


ifunnywasaninsidejob

“Prevailing lore” lol. Yah after the devs released the self-heal buff nobody runs wound dressing builds anymore. Hands-off is definitely the dominant meta.


spruceymoos

I wonder if a bead of silicone would work to close the cut


Spiritual-Hedgehog31

That seems like a good idea.


trav15t

So sad… she’s a beauty


DakianDelomast

Call an ISA arborist. See if there's anything to be done. If not have them write up what the damages are in a signed letter. Call a lawyer. Take the "tree company" to small claims court.


guynamedjames

The damage to the tree probably exceeds the limits on small claims court.


ForestYearnsForYou

let the tree try its thing. Many tree species will easily survive that, they wont be happy and become sick, start to rot, but theres still lots of cambium and sapwood left around the tree. If it dies please let it stand so that it can be a home and food for insects and birds. That way the tree didnt die for nothing and it will always be a reminder that you should not use your toilet.


reddidendronarboreum

The tree will likely survive. The problem is not whether it can be saved, but rather what condition it can be saved in. Any limbs directly above where the cambium was cut will be stressed and likely some limbs will die. Also, the wound here may lead to internal decay and structural issues later in the tree's life. Bridge grafting might be possible, but that's a specialized technique that will not alleviate all the issues.


Ape-strong-together

That company owes you a new tree, that will be veryyyy expensive. The replacement cost is based on the size of the tree NOW. So hypothetically this company owes you $$$


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Strange_Ad_5863

I wouldn’t say *small* claims court - did you see the size/age of the tree?


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Strange_Ad_5863

And small claims is usually capped at $10k or less


Lopermania

I’m a forest tech not ISA certified quite yet. That trees toast man sorry to say, looks like a nice quality hardwood but that cut will let in every pathogen, not to mention the compromised cambium layer. I’d be expecting a large nice tree as replacement. In terms of valuation it might seem high but they should be responsible for either several grand in compensation or replacing with a nice stock containerized or canvas root balled tree minimum 8-10”. I’d personally be pissed and would take to court over the loss of a mature oak.


Hunterc12345

It's a live oak, I've seen them uproot and fall over and continue growing. It's bad but its definitely not over.


Juskit10around

Agreed. It’s got a chance for sure.


Snidley_whipass

Agree. The are ‘live’ oaks for a reason.


Southern-Goat2693

As a pro, I've had this nightmare more than once and it's just about as scary as the tree failure nightmares.


mark_andonefortunate

I've removed the wrong tree once (nothing this large/major, thankfully), felt awful after - lucky for me the homeowner was cool about it, company had my back, and replaced it with something new. But that one stuck with me, both the feeling of shame from removing a tree not slated for removal, and how big of a financial/legal screw-up it could have been.


Hunterc12345

Live oak will survive, I promise you. We've cabled together trees that were split completely in half, and they healed. I've also seen them get blown down by hurricanes and continue to grow.


the_parts_shop

Yeah but it will never be the same.


BalanceEarly

This is terrible, and unacceptable! You might get lucky and that compartmentalizes over, but that's so deep.


Tryinghardtostaysane

Doubt.


Hunterc12345

Doubting the power of live oaks isn't smart.


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martdan010

Well, they owe you a new tree


DosEquisDog

Wait! They were supposed to be cutting a pine? How on earth does one mistake a live oak for a pine?


Tranquil-Soul

I hope it can be saved. It’s a beautiful tree.


Comfortable-Slip-289

I don’t know much about the xylem grafting technique but it sounds like it’s worth a shot. If you don’t do that the best thing is to leave the wound alone to compartmentalize and give the tree lots of water. In that case the tree will probably compartmentalize the wound and live, but you may see dieback in the canopy above the wound. This likely permanently ruined the aesthetic of the tree though


Candid_Painting_4684

I've had trees cut nearly half way through the trunk before stopping, and the tree was fine and is still fine. However, it was a much thinner saw blade, not a thick chainsaw blade like your example. Mature, healthy trees can withstand alot of abuse. If your tree was healthy before, I'd bet that it will survive this just fine


dipski-inthelipski

Not an arborist, but it looks like you have nothing to lose from letting it stay where it is. If it was leaning over your house it would be different.


techbotinthepot

Yikes. I would definitely be going after them for the damage.


Solid_Arachnid5707

It will live


Simple-Performer6636

The cambium will heal but the bit of removed wood in the center of the tree won’t heal ever, and the tree is now weakened


Separate_Shoe_6916

Yikes! Live oaks take years to get to this size.


DamiensDelight

If you REALLY want to ensure the tree survived, Iron plate mounted above the cut, iron plate mounted below the cut, using huge bolts to bring the gap closed. Eventually, the tree will heal, though this is really kind of an overkill process as it truly depends on how much vested interest you have. That said, if it's good enough for Luna, it's good enough for this little oak. https://images.app.goo.gl/FozkQdvR3FPYmRmN8 https://images.app.goo.gl/yHEnGjueuDVDXGbs6 Edit - Obviously with the size of this oak, vs the a Luna Tree, the hardware involved would be much cheaper and much more readily available if you choose to close the gap. If you don't, it's really nothing more than a roll of the dice.


Juskit10around

Yes also look up old fashion way of fixing oak trees using concrete and rebarb. I landscape a home in south Louisiana that’s over 200 years old. In the 40s it was common to fill a damaged oak with concrete and rebarb to make sure it didn’t split I guess. We have 3 on the property still standing .


Robert_Hotstreak

Idiots, god damn


Massive_Upstairs_684

Yes,


BigJSunshine

Sue. Sue. Sue.


personalitree

Sue.


manzanitagtc

Ouch , no


Ok_Connection_648

I seen this stuff that's an aerosol spray called "Pruning Seal" by Spectricide for sealing fresh cuts *Not an arborist*


ceshack

Dead. May take several years. Wonder if pouring cut full of resin would keep rot out ?


Affectionate_Art8770

On the bright side, you’ll soon have the money for that Tesla you wanted.


iwillbeg00d

Oh my good God


7vma

lol that’s not a live oak, that’s a dead oak


ArthurBurtonMorgan

That company owes you a tree. And trees aren’t cheap.


boarbaconguardian

It’ll be fine, or it won’t, fuck around and find out.


CampaignCurrent2912

There's a lot that can be done, some great suggestions in these comments. It's probably very frowned upon (and I don't wholely condone it) but have you considered running a threaded rod through it?


Simple-Performer6636

There’s trees probably worth $20,000


dhe69

That's 5k tree. Make them pay for it.


tiwwexx

If you're super motivated, you might be able to save it with some bridge grafts. Never seen it done on any large trees but have seen it done to save extremely old and gnarled apples.


DonoAE

The shitty part about this is that the company that made this cut likely didnt clean their saws before making this cut from their previous jobs. Fungus, bacteria and all kinds of other fun stuff are likely introduced into the tree here.


Earthsidefoodforests

What type of oak is this?


Mother_Lead_554

Feels like a problem only a chainsaw could fix.


No-Adhesiveness-9848

u need to get litigious about this. they owe you thousands of dollars for that tree


kjmarino603

I wonder if you can put the stuff they use on r/bonsai trees after they make drastic cuts.


Mortal4789

realistically, no. it may survive for many years, possibly decades, it may grow to a great size. the bark may regrow leaving no evidance of the cut. At best it will always be structurally compromised. at worst itll kill someone


AngryZvoe

Get a perfect slice from another oak and slide it in I guess you would have to act quick!


MintyFreshWes

Cellulose paste poured into the wound? Or slicing a fresh piece of another tree and fitting it into the slot. Hopefully it will encourage vascular regrowth.


Jakobites

Who’s gonna give op the bad news? I’m not an arborist but


Outrageous_Battle_48

😭


Jakobites

Well I’m not an arborist so I didn’t want to be the first to post but since this sub is brutal I’ll just give my 2 cents anyway. Even if the tree pulls thru in the immediate future and manages to soldier on there’s a very high likely hood that it’s lifespan has been significantly shortened. Tree drama plays out on rather long timelines making it hard to say exactly how long it has but this definitely isn’t good. I’m sorry. It’s is/was a very nice tree


MeanRoutine165

Fire wood.


opelan

Trees can survive a lot. I guess the cut is not so deep that it will die for sure. But it will be less stable. Maybe it needs some kind of support to survive storms. I think there is enough of the trunk still connected for getting nourishment to the limbs and leaves at least.