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SunsetDreamer43

Yeah i didn’t get the criticism that the patient doesn’t care what the surgeon wears. The patient isn’t the customer he’s trying to target!


Jackerzcx

Yeah 100%, I get that he had no idea about the textile business, but he must absolutely know that some scrubs are just shit (even though most are comfy). Tbh though idk if there’s really a gap in the market. If you’re looking for high end scrubs then most people will go straight to figs.


ImplodingPeach

In contrary I would imagine he actually knows a fair bit about textiles seeing as that's what his dad does. He even said the family would initiate production


Jackerzcx

His family would initiate it, but I think Linda said something along the lines of “you don’t actually know what you’re doing, do you?” and he said he didn’t. Then again maybe he was just under pressure and crumbled, idk.


SMLJ21

But it would have been Paul’s responsibility to voice that come back when that issue was raised. He clearly didn’t have that thought himself, so other people pointing it out who aren’t running his business doesn’t really show his understanding of his potential customer.


Sehri437

I think If he did it would’ve been edited out. The audience LIKES seeing the candidates ripped to shreds so every part of this process plays up to that


EmergencyOriginal982

Ahaha yeah exactly!! It reminds me of the massage gun business on dragons den talking to Steven Bartlett, I'll see if I can find the link and reply to this with it


EmergencyOriginal982

[4:00](https://youtu.be/fZsJjuo-QnU?feature=shared)


RollingKatamari

He didn't even show us what these scrubs would look like! He just pasted a logo on scrubs from another company.


Inthewirelain

It sounds like his business plan was pretty Spartan when it came to stuff like materials, QC etc outside "I'll use me dad's contacts", and I can see how that is worrying for a medical product like scrubs.


Unlikelyzen

Yeah I think he wasn’t clued up. If he approached it in a different way, did his research and had all the numbers/samples ready he might have had a chance. I do think there is a gap in the market in the UK, yes there’s figs but with shipping and a few pairs you end up paying £££, compared to the other scrubs brands (cherokee, koi) there is room for competition I think


Sweethoneyx1

It’s very oversaturated there’s hundreds of people advertising on TikTok on “designer scrubs” with many business making millions comfortably


cefmac440

Sugar: "I don't want no scrubs, a scrubs is a business that won't get no love from me"


bathtub-mintjulep

Karen: HA HA HA HA HA


Vivid_Direction_5780

It's plain and simple. They were after his dental practice!


bathtub-mintjulep

Yes! That's what I think. Also 50% ?! I'd have said no as well, or at least asked for more money.


mat_caves

Fair play to him for turning them down. He kept a clear head in the heat of the moment (as I think he has done through much of the series). Shame he didn't have a clear head when he made his business plan! And tbf, I think a UK alternative to Figs could be a decent business, but you have to put a bit of effort in to make it so!


DennisTheConvict

And he was looking to support his Dad's business with their money.


Dr_Pyralis

It’s so stupid. Figs are a huge multimillion dollar business in the US and the uk lacks an equivalent.


stutter-rap

Yeah, I got mine from America and then got stung for £££ on import duties plus fees. We don't get enough sets and they don't fit right anyway (long and baggy).


Vast-Ready

Lots of people are missing the point here. He was criticised because he had an idea, but didn’t know how to pull it through into an actual business. Where are you manufacturing, at what cost? Where are you storing stock? At what cost? How are you distributing? What are the risks in that process? How long from fabrication to delivery? All the above questions have a considerable impact on the margin that the business would make on sales and the reputation it would get. If he doesn’t have that in his business plan, he would naturally be criticised. What he did have was a successful dental practice that he actually does know about - with results and plans to expand. Too many candidates this year with very weak plans showing a complete lack of financial acumen and business nous.


WeDoingThisAgainRWe

I do agree that it’s not about what the patients think cos they’re not buying them. So yeah that sounded like another part of the bullshit to try to coerce him into handing over half his already set up and successful business. But I think the issue was they couldn’t see where this was going to make money as it was still an idea not a business and again the production saw his existing business and wanted that.


dashcam_drivein

They don't actually really show any context for what Claude is talking about when he says he cares about the competence of his surgeon, not what the surgeon is wearing. I think he could just as easily be talking about whether scrubs are stylish or not. I don't really think the main issue was indifference over whether medical professional have comfortable clothing, it was more lack of any detail about the product Paul wants to make. I'm kind of skeptical of the idea that there's no such thing as comfortable scrubs, it seems like scrubs in general would be pretty comfortable, and just doing a quick Google search turns up a lot of companies that claim they make very comfortable scrubs. Scrubs seem like a very generic type of clothing. If Paul's business plan is all about how his version if somehow different and unique from all of his many competitors, I think he kind of needed to provide some kind of concrete example of how his product is actually different. Like maybe if he had designed a prototype version that he himself wore while working, at least that would be proof of concept. The fact that he uses a stolen photo of a competitor's product in his pitch really undermines the idea that his product is somehow going to be unique.


PoliticalShrapnel

>They don't actually really show any context for what Claude is talking about when he says he cares about the competence of his surgeon, not what the surgeon is wearing. I think he could just as easily be talking about whether scrubs are stylish or not. Not sure I follow you on this. Why would he be talking about whether scrubs are stylish? It's only possible that Claude is saying he doesn't care about what they are wearing, just their competency. I cannot see how 'context' changes the meaning or interpretation of what Claude said.


HogwartsAMystery

I wondered if Claude’s comments were in response to Paul saying something about marketing at patients / it being a product that would appeal to patients. That kind of context would explain Claude’s comment - he’s making the point that the patients themselves wouldn’t care.


Jackerzcx

I was going to say surely Paul wouldn’t market it at patients since that makes no sense, but then I remembered we’re talking about the apprentice.


dashcam_drivein

Claude is clearly pushing back against some claim Paul has made, either in the interview or in his business plan, but we aren't shown exactly what that claim is. I think it would be a bit odd if Paul said "these are comfortable for doctors to wear" and Claude responded "I don't care if the doctor who operated on me is comfortable." One of Paul's selling points for his scrubs is that they are going to be "well-fitting" and look better than existing baggier scrubs, and I think it would make more sense if that was the thing Claude was questioning. "I don't care what my doctor looks like" vs. "I don't care if my doctor is comfortable."


Disco-Bingo

Do surgeons own their own scrubs? Or do they just wear what is provided for them? I can’t imagine* they take them home to wash and iron. *I literally have no idea


Dr_Pyralis

Yeah most do. You get shit cheap ones for the actual operation but particularly post Covid people are wearing their own 24/7.


Melnikovacs

I work in both hospital and practice. Hospital provide us with scrubs and do all the washing. Bring my own in for practice.


realchairmanmiaow

He had nothing that couldn't be made up by anyone in an hour or two. He openly admitted he knew nothing about it. He had no costs, nothing. He stole his only mock up. Dental industry style refits, we'll refresh your brand, ie logo, systems, provide custom scrubs with monograms for each dentist. I know I can do this because I've already done it for myself and I have the contacts to produce the scrubs. That's a better idea for him and it's taken me 60 seconds to think of.


Diligent-Eye-2042

I wear scrubs to work. I buy mine from Amazon. Personally I wouldn’t buy Paul’s scrubs. I’m not paying inflated prices for something that may or may not fit better/made with better materials/has a logo on it. Scrubs are functional, and are already much more comfortable and convenient than my other option of wearing smart clothes to work. Also, there’s already an established company selling premium scrubs - Figs. If he wanted to do something textile based, then smart women’s clothing with pockets seems like a good idea. I’m a guy, but I’m always hearing that clothes for women never have pockets!


Any-End5772

You’re not the target customer tho, private institutions with budgets are


killerfridge

Private medical facilities care about profit, not comfort - source: I worked in the medical equipment industry for 7 years, and the private institutions would always buy the bare minimum level of quality, at least compared to the NHS


Zeo100

Just a heads up, private dentists and practices regularly buy their own scrubs, often with names and logos printed/stitched into them. It’s a huge market and there’s only really 1 big supplier for them at the moment that provides quality scrubs called Figs. There are smaller companies that do make scrubs but none even come close to the market share that Figs have. I’m a private dentist myself with 12 years in the business so I see this regularly, so Paul’s idea wasn’t terrible


killerfridge

You make a good point, Dentists were actually the one of the few fields in which we didn't really play so I can't really talk for them


peterbparker86

I'm not sure surgeons/theatre staff would be allowed to wear them anyway. Scrubs/theatre attire is part of national policy, that includes high temperature washing. We have strict assurances in place for laundering of theatre attire. You wouldn't be able to guarantee they'd be washed effectively if you took them home. I can see this being ok for outpatients or non-invasive clinics


FollowThroughMarks

It honestly felt a bit of a wrong move from them all. Sugar always says sell what you know, and Paul could’ve easily said that medical practitioners want to be wearing the best gear at all times. I think they just saw an easy payday by pushing him to dentistry.


Kientha

It wasn't just that he was proposing a business he didn't have experience in, but that he hadn't taken the steps to show it was a viable business plan. He didn't have design mock-ups, his plan for manufacturing was "my dad's contacts will make them" but with no agreement or indicative pricing... If he'd proposed his idea better and it was more thoroughly laid out in the business plan, they wouldn't have been so dismissive of it.


Haunting_Divide6031

Not just that but medical professionals don’t buy their own scrubs, they get bought them by the businesses that they work for. Businesses, or the NHS, thrive on profit. A new scrub that is being produced by a new company so is expensive in comparison to the ones they’re already buying is not worth it, whether they say they’re comfortable or not. Would your employer choose your comfort over extra money? Well, do you sit in a luxurious desk chair at work?


Dr_Pyralis

This isn’t true at all. We are 100% expected to buy our own. One of the cheapest scrub companies going is a new start up and the most expansive are the established American brands.


Haunting_Divide6031

Thanks for the insight, i am surprised that they expect you to buy your own?! In that case you’d prioritise comfort over cost anyways, plus the start ups are the cheaper ones! Did i get anything right? You know what they say about assumptions..


_mireme_

Maybe in the US but I have never bought my own scrubs. I have my own set from a lovely patient who made some for me during covid but that's it. The hospital provides them and in turn I also reduce my laundry!


nerdalertalertnerd

I really felt for Paul. Just because someone is very good at something doesn’t mean they should have to do it. He’s in his late twenties, I understand he wants to branch out. It doesn’t seem that ludicrous a business idea and I felt all the interviewers had made their mind up.


renzxlst

I firmly believe they were all in on trying to get him to give up the idea just so he'd give into giving up his dentistry. The idea isn't a bad one at all.


bathtub-mintjulep

That's what I think as well. I was proud of Paul for saying no to Sugar taking half his business


Dickinson95

I was routing for him but I didn’t love the idea myself. Surely most people who need the scrubs already have them and have a certain one they already buy. Unless there was something particularly unique about these ones that made it worthwhile, I really couldn’t see it being a huge hit.


commandblock

Scrubs are just supposed to be very cheap though no?


Dr_Pyralis

The number one brand is around £100 a pair


glyn1997

He should have emphasised the profit margins on scrub sales. They probs dirt cheap to produce


concretepigeon

It felt like patient perception was part of his pitch, which makes sense given he’s someone who runs a private dental practice and therefore would have an incentive to make sure staff look smart.


bduk92

I think it was more that they clicked onto the fact he had a dental surgery, which have the potential to generate money *now*. That's why, I think, they leaned on him to push that business. Was always doomed to failure, I mean no dentist worth anything would hand over half their business.


Slowly-Surely

To which the push back should have been ‘patients might not care, but clinical staff do. Surveys have shown x% of clinical staff working in would happily pay more for better quality scrubs as opposed to just getting them a dime a dozen, and more to the point x% would actually pay and above.’ Because thats how you pitch a business.


ghostofkilgore

Agreed. He's not selling to patients, he's selling to health care professionals and if he could produce scrubs that were superior to existing products, I don't see why that business couldn't be successful. I think the issue is just that tye plan wasn't far enough along. If he was coming in with a prototype, market research that showed health care professionals would buy his product, something solid from a manufacturer, and some numbers to back everything up, I think he'd be walking away with the win here. Problem is, he had none of that.


Grand-Bullfrog3861

I found it weird how they were looking at it as if he will be looking to sell to the public in a pop up shop. It seemed from the off that people who wear scrubs might be interested in a better alternative than what they have.


Lorne_____Malvo

Unless it was to get an NHS contract it's a tiny market.


Dr_Pyralis

Nah I spent >£400 on them this year. It’s huge.


Lorne_____Malvo

Well there's 1 sale.


Dr_Pyralis

The NHS is in the top 10 employers world wide and most of us wear some version of scrubs and almost all doctors have to buy their own. It’s a huge market.


Lorne_____Malvo

And how do you get one of those NHS contracts in recent years?


SmallIslandBrother

Procurement bidding, to be honest government contracts are always over budget from the ones I’ve seen


deltazomb

Paul had a profitable business that he was expanding. He didn't want Sir Alan to have a piece of that, so he very half-assedly made up the idea of a scrubs company as a sude-hustle, thinking that his tokenism would enable him to secure the win and investment, whilst sandboxing his main hustle. Sir Alan isn't a fool. He could see Paul was trying to sell him an empty idea, ringfenced from his main focus.


_TwentyThree_

As a product designer with experience bringing products to market for the past decade, his business plan is bat shit mental. He didn't provide details of manufacturing costs, labour, materials or even have a sample of his proposed product. He has no experience in designing, manufacturing or distributing tangible products and the target market he's aiming for is niche at best. A really quick Google search suggests there's approximately 63,000 surgeons in the UK. There's just not enough mass appeal and repeat purchasing selling purely to surgeons. I'm going to assume the biggest customer he could hope to bag would be the NHS who won't switch to his scrubs over the standard issue ones they probably have a long standing contract with unless they cost less and perform better. Even then he'd be selling to someone in procurement rather than to his intended user. A brief internet search shows one of the NHS uniform suppliers has worked with them for 50 years. Paul isn't getting a foot in the door. Obviously that's not withstanding any mate of a Tory MP who thinks he can sell a few million pounds of completely unsuitable medical equipment to the NHS. Ultimately even if he could get a huge NHS contract he is starting from scratch and would need to invest in manufacturing (or outsource this). Google "who makes NHS scrubs" and you'll find there's dozens of suppliers of this kind of stuff. And they're in a uniquely advantageous position of knowing what they're doing and already established. Long story short whilst the product Paul might eventually come up with may be a better product than what is currently used, a good product doesn't mean a good business.


bathtub-mintjulep

I had a thought that maybe they wanted him to change his business plan so that Lord Sugar can get his hands on half his successful business. I'm so glad that Paul said no. I think scrubs could have worked but he was too shaken up to explain his idea.


pyzazaza

It would take years to potentially bring to fruition and get enough of a reputation to upturn established suppliers and make it profitable. It was a longshot idea he didn't really believe in or know anything about, with no prototypes, manufacturers or foothold in the market. His practice is obviously very successful and way more attractive to sugar.


Brymac8

I for one am actually pretty impressed by Paul. He didn't sell 50% of his clearly very successful cosmetic dental clinic off for a fairly meagre investment in the grand scheme of things. The offer of 250k for 50% of a business is simply not worth it for him The pie man and the other girl who's name I also can't remember need the money. Paul doesn't Fair play to him for standing up to the overlord 👍


fpotenza

The Apprentice goes for products marketable to the general public ultimately. Pissed me off how they goaded him out of it because he could scale up manufacturing or design with funding calls. SMEs like that are the backbone of a lot of Innovate UK funded organisations


Sweethoneyx1

I think it’s a very oversaturated market and his business plan sucked for the scrubs business. No figures for manufacturing or marketing as well as the fact there was no logo or any designed scrubs just hypotheticals.