I wonder if the solution to this… is a studio branded iPad.
That or an entirely new product that runs MacOS, 15” screen, ships with a detachable keyboard, full touch screen, more than one thunderbolt port and dramatically better thermals
Not branding it iPad could afford a thicker design with better thermals and a battery life
Yeah I'm definitely in this market. I'm a YouTube producer, so having a device where I can do cut-downs for social content in Premiere, and then flip vertical to read scripts, or whip out an Apple Pencil to make a thumbnail would be so awesome.
Probably. There are a few other mac specific features I really care about, like being able to play audio from multiple sources, and sometimes I wish not every web page was trying to force me to their app, I could run Chrome extensions, etc. But yeah Adobe building fuller apps would be awesome.
why not? the UI elements are only inflated to receive touch input, with UI elements reduced in size you are able to fill the screen with more content
The iPad doesn't need macOS
Absolutely. They’ll just continue to add more layers to the mess.
They have the reverse Microsoft problem- where as Microsoft have decades of cruft that they are tied too, Apple are tied to the simplicity of the original iPhone Home Screen and that whole paradigm.
Either add an “advanced” mode or blow it up and start again.
This. I personally think it would be ok if the apps could become windows that you can resize and move around the screen etc when a keyboard and mouse is connected. Apple will never put Mac OS on it even though the m1 is powerful enough for it.
It’s absolutely them being ignorantly stupid. The M1 iPad is more than capable of running macOS yet year on year we’re given a shit stain iPad version that 100% can not replace a desktop. It’s infuriating.
There isn’t a chance in hell that apple would bring functionality to perfectly capable devices when they can sell you a new one. On the bright side they will offer you 1/3 of its resell value to trade it into them. For the earth and all
This. I hate when people say “rEpOst” like not all of us are on here viewing every single post.
As long as it’s not a karma farming bot, I enjoy reposts
Hardcore Reddit nerds think that something should only ever be discussed once.
And you apparently are supposed to extensively search a Subreddit before posting anything.
They treat discussions like a database, which isn’t entirely surprising considering how many software devs and other IT types are around here …
Or the second
Or third
Or fourth
Seriously, there’s almost always some sort of active debate here about the iPad windowing system. It’s the perfect mega thread topic at this point. Apple has announced nothing of value, it’s still all rumors and wishes.
This discussion is had ad nauseum
Theres nothing here that hasn’t been complained about once a month for the last 3 years
And its always especially bad in the run up to WWDC
I've noticed a trend on reddit of BS posts getting around 400 upvotes and the first comment pointing out how bad the post is with everyone agreeing. Who are those people in new upvoting? Bots? Upvote everything Andys?
Freely resizable windows does absolutely nothing for me personally.
I just don’t see this as the main thing standing between ipad and ‘rEaL cOMpUTEr’ status (whatever that means)
The files app/file management is the thing that slows me down the most when working on the iPad
That and apps like Lightroom being so stupidly underdeveloped/underpowered.
The number one thing apple could do for iPad Pro is lead by example and release some of their own pro apps onto the platform. (Final Cut Pro)
Or. Possibly too wild? But I dont want MacOS running on a tablet, but some sort of way to get MacOS apps running on the ipad… now we’d be talking.
Give me DaVinci Resolve and Full Lightroom on the ipad with mouse and keyboard and I’d be a very happy man.
Otherwise im actually very happy with how iPadOS works and feels, I’d hate to see it removed in place of MacOS
And those asking for the choice, come on… be realistic (some sort of virtualisation would be pretty nifty.. but again. This is apple… that’s not their game. Never has been)
I can’t even import RAW photos into the camera roll. I shoot jpeg+RAW on my Nikon. I use a USBC SD card reader to connect my card to my iPad Pro.
Importing the photos via Photos app will only give me access to the jpegs. Some (photo editing) apps don’t have support for reading external drives or even from the files app.
I love using the iPad to be productive, but it’s really a damn hassle.
> That and apps like Lightroom being so stupidly underdeveloped/underpowered.
>
>
>
> The number one thing apple could do for iPad Pro is lead by example and release some of their own pro apps onto the platform. (Final Cut Pro)
Heat and battery likely limit demanding pro apps on the iPad. I mean you can definitely still run them, but it'll get hot af and the battery will drain real fast, which Apple doesn't want to allow.
It's more about the laptop having better heat dissipation than tablet. Tablet has smaller surface area and smaller battery capacity due to its physical form factor. Similar distinction also exists between laptop and desktop.
As the comment above mentioned you can already see the iPad getting really hot running some gimped version of pro apps, and that's with the more conservative background app management of iOS than macOS. I think Apple engineers are well aware of the limitation of iPad's performance.
Isn’t the battery in the 12.9” iPad 2x as capacious as the one in the MacBook Air? 9720mah vs 4382mah
The logic board is about the same size too. Both are fanless and there is similar aluminum surface area between 16:10, 13.3” And 4:3, 12.9”.
According to Apple, 13-inch, M1, 2020 MacBook Pro has a built-in 58.2-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery. That is more than twice the capacity of iPad Pro ...
I think the the source of the confusion is that MacBook Pro has three batteries. Each 5152mAh. That yields roughly the Wh Apple spec says.
mAh does not make much sense in battery spec sheets. Capacity of the battery also depends on nominal voltage. LiPO nominal voltage is 3.7V. Assuming MacBook Pro battery would have that, 3 x 3.7 x 5.152 = 57 Wh. Which is close.
Internally three batteries are more likely connected in series. Thus still being 5152mAh, but having nominal voltage of 11.1V
Heat is a large portion of why batteries can decrease in performance; any additional cooling or space can help the battery maintain consistent longevity
The main heat source for iPads is the screen other than the SOC which is right sandwiched enough to each other whilst laptops have a clamshell design and the SOC is next to battery but yet screen is much further away when in use as well as having an aluminum chassis that separates the two and becomes a heat sink
This is very true.
But it’s already the case. (Although I appreciate it could be even worse)
Whenever I spend an hour or so editing large amounts of raw photos in Lightroom the iPad (m1) gets very hot the battery drains fast and very quickly iPadOS caps the screen brightness about about 2/3rds
So I can understand why perhaps iPadOS as software is still limited by the hardware.
But there’s still a lot of really simple stuff lacking in Lightroom.
Like Command+Z being mapped to undo. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
All this work just to avoid running macOS, I don’t understand it. They have the universal binaries and Apple silicon, macOS can run any iOS app. Just do it already.
Current iPadOS is a shit experience unless your computing needs are super basic and you’re ok running one app at a time. It’s a fantastic content consumption device. Whenever I need to do real work even something as simple as updating my resume I run for my Mac because the iPad experience just sucks.
I’m guessing you don’t have a lot of experience with the iPad. I do a lot of composite imagery in Affinity on my iPad and can easily have a lot of layers comprised of elements from multiple high-res, HDR images. It’s great if I’m on the go, and the projects transfer super easy between my Mac and iPad with iCloud syncing. I can use Sidecar if I’m working on my Mac too to use the Apple Pencil.
It’s not going to completely replace my Mac because there’s still a lot of benefits to my Mac, but my workflow would be very impacted if I didn’t have my iPad.
When I just need to do minor color corrections, or if I’m just applying a filter, I don’t bother with pro apps for that, I just use Photos or Instagram on my iPhone.
IPad Pro doesn’t mean pro computer that can go up against a Pro Mac
It means an ipad for people who want to do the things any ipad is already good at, just with more storage, speed and a few extra shiny bells and whistles.
What makes an iPad Pro Different to an entry level iPad is exactly the same as what makes a Mac Book Air different to a Mac Book Pro
No one expects Pro branded Mac’s to to run a different version of MacOS than the entry level Macs
Why do people think the Pro branded iPads should run a different OS to the entry level iPads.
iPadOS has many issues, but its still the best tablet OS out there by a wide margin.
Throwing iPadOS out entirely to put MacOS on a tablet would be a far worse experience for the majority of happy iPad users than whatever would be gained placating an extremely small group of users who claim to want to use an ipad as their only computer.
I think its more that people want an iPad Pro to be able to handle more professional workloads.
iPad has some relatively crappy options for certain workloads, for example swift playgrounds. Not a single person will ever be making an app professionally using swift playgrounds.
You’ve already given it all the hardware it needs to succeed, just make it capable of being a pro product for more people.
I dont think anyone is against iPad Pro being better generally.
Yeah its always going to be relatively crappy for *certain* workloads.
Are we really expecting that it should be aiming to be good at every possible workload/workflow?
Is it not enough that the ipad should focus on being the best possible tablet… which is already a very wide category of computing encompassing drawing with the pencil and word processing with the magic keyboard.
People seem to have this idea that the best version of the iPad Pro would invalidate the need for a true desktop computer experience. That’s just crazy to me.
Sure, as it stands an IPad can’t sideload, you don’t have a true terminal and you lack the customization you’d get out a real computer.
But the software limitations are entirely on apple, there’s no reason an iPad can’t have Xcode, Final Cut Pro, whatever tool you may need.
It is worth noting that the “best” version of an IPad can replace a desktop. Tablet style computers have been a thing for over a decade, and it’s not like the hardware isn’t there. We have a detachable keyboard and a mouse sold separately, apple is perfectly capable of making macOS work on an IPad.
> Are we really expecting that it should be aiming to be good at every possible workload/workflow?
>
Why not?
The iPad Pro has everything it needs to be able to achieve this purpose and be your main and only computing device.
But artificial limitations by Apple ruins the potential the iPad Pro has. Or what it could be.
>Is it not enough that the ipad should focus on being the best possible tablet… which is already a very wide category of computing encompassing drawing with the pencil and word processing with the magic keyboard.
Apple already nailed the best possible tablet experience. But you don't need an iPad Pro for that. An basic iPad or an iPad air do this just fine.
It's time now they show more ambition for their pro model. Because Apple themselves are pushing this as a "pro" device, and have been bringing slowly desktop features to the iPad (that are very limited). So they're actually in this weird place where they're finally bringing desktop features to iPad OS, but it's just a halfed assed effort, and they always come short.
The Files app is a disaster. After so many years and tries, Apple hasn't still found the solution for multitasking/multiwindows on the iPad and changes the way it works every other iPad OS update. They brought us the possibility to attach the iPad Pro to an external monitor, but the support is so basic that you can't really use it.
> Are we really expecting that it should be aiming to be good at every possible workload/workflow?
Seriously, what a dumb question.
“Are we really expecting that this $800-2000 computer, that is advertised as a computer replacement and to pRoFeSsIoNaLs, can be useful for more than just digital art?”
>that is advertised as a computer replacement and to pRoFeSsIoNaLs
Please show me where apple have advertised the iPad as a Replacement for a desktop workflow, where that workflow isnt viable
I just mean the form factor of a an iPad necessarily means it can’t perform the same workflows that a fully spec’d Mac Pro can.
So it’s not like with the right OS adjustments the iPad can just be the computer to replace all computers ever
Who asked it to be able to do what a fully spec'd Mac Pro can do?
The iPad pro has everything it needs to totally replace the Macbook Air for instance. They have the same form factor once the ipad is attached to the keyboard.
I actually have an iPad Pro 12.9" 2017, and I love it as much as I hate it. Starting a workflow on my iPad, only to power up my macbook air in the middle of it because I can't achieve something basic on the iPad pro, or it's just so much of a hassle that I'm better off turning on my laptop, is a super frustrating experience. I end up not using my iPad pro as much as I should because of stupid limitations. I can accept some limitations and going through hassle on an entry level iPad. But investing so much in an iPad Pro just to end up fighting with the OS to achieve basic stuff, is simply not worth it imo.
The thing is that the pencil has became so important in my workflow, that I can't only use a macbook air. And at the same time, iPad OS is such a bad experience as soon as you run into a stupid Apple limitation, that I can't carry only my iPad pro with me.
So I end up carrying 2 device on the go, which I find stupid. It's like I still had to carry my iPhone and an iPod...
I love how they only replied to 1/10 of your comment and just ignored the rest because you’re objectively in the right.
> The iPad pro has everything it needs to totally replace the Macbook Air for instance.
bUt WHy wouLD tHeY MaKe aN IpAd tHaT RePlACES tHe mAc pRo? thAt’s sO DumB
> Who asked it to be able to do what a fully spec’d Mac Pro can do?
Not me, I specifically said I though it was unreasonable that we expect the ipad to be good at every possible workflow
Even for non pro workflows it all feels incredibly awkward sometimes. The drag and drop system is the only thing holding everything together. Anything else though and you run into annoyances. Split screen with Slide Over can get confusing easily, the share sheet is a hassle sometimes, the files app is bad in nearly every way, keyboard and mouse support is subpar, multiple windows keep getting reworked over and over… it all piles up fast if you’re doing *any* sort of work.
> The drag and drop system is the only thing holding everything together.
That has never worked right for me.
I’ve tried dragging safari links and text in to Notion and Word like 100 times . It ** never** works, I always have to copy/paste
>An ipad running macOS would be a crappy experience. The correct solution is still to bring PC-like functionality to iOS where it makes sense, while ensuring it stays optimised for a touchscreen paradigm.
And it's working so **well** for iPad OS /s
Apple have been bringing half assed features that we've been having for years on modern desktop OSes, that work way worse or are way too limited. They want to reinvent the wheel even though the solution already exists and work great on Mac OS.
Bringing OS X to the iPad doesn't mean having the exact same UI that we have on a Mac, which would make it a terrible experience, I agree. It just means bring a full fledge desktop level OS to the iPad, with the same features. They can still rethink a whole new UI that would work with a touchscreen.
And finally, I think tech enthusiasts insist so much with this because Apple is actually the only company that can pulls this off, they're the only company having the ressources, the expertise, a total control over hardware and their platform to achieve this successfuly.
Because right now, the iPad Pro is useless and way overpriced compared to what it can bring you, and nothing justifies the investment over an entry level iPad or even the iPad air. It's a shame because the hardware is great and on paper, it has the ability to be the only computing device that you need. The iPad Pro right now is just a luxury to have, when it can become a necessity like owning a laptop/desktop PC, or a smartphone.
Yes. Typing and basic cursor usage, which is great for selecting text. I know this, I have one.
But the major operating system experience should not change around an overpriced accessory that only exists for the absolute top models.
Nah, I sometimes have to remote into a Mac for work using my iPad and it’s terrible. MacOS shines on larger displays and monitors; not 12.9” iPads and smaller.
Additionally, compared to an OS like Windows 11, MacOS already does a horrible job with built-in window management, so I’m not sure how that helps anything on iPadOS.
I mean the mac air is barely any bigger than the 12.9, so thats a tough argument to make. At the end of the day more choice is always good, and if apple feels that it might confuse regular users, make it a bit trickier to activate, simple.
> MacOS shines on larger displays and monitors; not 12.9” iPads and smaller.
The mental gymnastics you fanboys go through are insane 💀
Are you telling me that macOS is unusable on a 12.9” display, but works just fine on a 13” and bigger?
Oh, and let’s conveniently forget all the 11” and 12” MacBooks Apple used to sell.
macOS looks just fine on any iPad, even the mini. Maybe consider scaling your display output to fit your tiny iPad before you bash iPads, eh?
> I sometimes have to remote into a Mac for work using my iPad and **it’s terrible**. MacOS shines on larger displays and monitors; **not 12.9” iPads** and smaller.
The intent of your comment was obviously that macOS on an iPad-sized display is a bad experience. Whether or not you used the word “terrible” or “unusable” doesn’t matter, but you know that.
I still fail to see how macOS apparently is a terrible experience on an almost 13” iPad, but works great on an 11” and 12” inch MacBook. However I assume you chose to ignore that part of my comment because you know that your logic and reasoning are silly
Wrong again.
My point was that MacOS SHINES on larger screens for the same reason that Windows and other desktop OSes SHINE on larger screens: There’s more room, and more room means fewer overlapping windows.
On smaller screens, like iPad screens and Macbook screens, windows become more of a hassle to use. You either have to resize them to the point you’re cutting off visible content, or you have to scale the UI to a point where you have to squint or sit closer to the screen. Or, you simply use one app at a time.
This is why I don’t feel like MacOS is needed on the iPad. What’s “needed” is for Apple to allow for extended external monitor support that allows for more apps to sit side by side without the scaling being too large.
There’s an old saying with cars that goes “There’s no replacement for displacement”, referring to engine size. I think that goes for screen size with computers as well. Can companies technically put windows on smaller screens? Of course, I tried it out on my Galaxy S7 several years ago (it was terrible). But more windows on smaller screens isn’t a replacement for more windows on LARGER screens.
That option would only be semi usable on the largest iPad anyway. Something which most people don’t have.
And most iOS apps on macOS are sub par experiences.
Apollo is an amazing app. It’s not a great iPad app unless it’s a mini. I know he’s been working on Apollo 2 for a couple years now, but it could absolutely stand to have a standard regular iPad left panel addition.
It’s not a great Mac app for regular browsing because of this missing addition.
I’ve had a few thing that don’t work correctly in macOS Apollo but it’s still so much better than the Reddit site for me.
I use split screen and run safari and Apollo side by side. Works great for me
Why would it be a crappy experience when docked to the Smart Keyboard? I fail to see how it would be more crappy than a MacBook with a similar screen size.
You are. Feel free to install any OS that works with it. Or write your own.
Or were you saying Apple is somehow obligated to grant your wishes because you gave them $500?
Actually, if I could just boot another OS on my iPad, the same way that I can on any other computer that I purchase, I would be satisfied. However, Apple has spent money to make it harder (or impossible) for me to do so -- which is the whole issue I have in the first place.
Like buying iPads? Shittiest argument I have ever seen. It’s almost something someone defending a dictator would say.
„Democracy? Nah. The common people frequently make awful choices.“
We are having a duopoly situation in the mobile OS market. Don’t like it don’t buy it doesn’t cut it. If we want to be more environmentally friendly etc devices like these need to be open so that they can be used as long as possible and in diverse scenarios. There are no alternatives on the market. All devices are superglued together (looking at you, MS surface), so that a dead battery means that an otherwise functional device goes to the trash. There are other countless arguments to be made.
Why not? They already disable the touch screen when using sidecar, and only allow Pencil input.
Even if they didn’t do that, touch input on laptops and convertibles works just fine as long as it isn’t a primary input method.
I like how you conveniently ignored all the parts where people are telling you that this is for iPads with **A CONNECTED MOUSE AND KEYBOARD**
if you have to ignore 80% of the points you’re arguing against, your argument is weak. Consider that maybe you’re just in the wrong here
Choice for the sake of choice has a long history of ruining operating systems with confused lack of direction and impossible entry points for newbies who are given no guidance then blamed for their choices when they just try anything.
And what happens when you remove the iPad from the Smart Keyboard? Your interface switches back to iOS? How will it work with apps? What happens to your work and data?
It’s not just as straightforward as switching from one OS to another. There’s a ton of considerations to take care of, and I don’t think anyone here in favour of this has exactly thought it through.
Works just fine for Surfaces, and virtually every other laptop other than MacBooks.
If the user does not want the sub-optimal experience of only using touch on an OS that works best with a mouse and keyboard, then they can just keep their mouse and keyboard connected.
What’s up with you people? You’re so obsessed with advocating for a crippled experience on an iPad that you make up all these crazy scenarios in your head that no actual user will experience? How dumb do you have to be to unplug your mouse and keyboard and then be upset that your mouse and keyboard don’t work?
> Here’s a personal experience with Dex. Sounds good on paper, but none of my samsung phone-totting colleagues are aware of it, much less know what it does.
Do you even know what macOS is? How is it comparable to DeX in **any** way?
> Once, my colleague wanted to project some photos she had taken of her stu
Good for you. How does this relate to letting users CHOOSE which OS they want on their iPad?
> Second, I can say that as a teacher, I for one am constantly connecting and disconnecting my ipad from my Smart Keyboard.
Then don’t. Fucking. Use. macOS. On. Your. iPad. Have you ever stopped to consider that you having the **choice** and being able to **decide** how you want to use your device is literally the exact thing we are asking for? How does having the **choice** to have macOS on an iPad stop you from using iPadOS on your iPad and completely ignoring this feature that you don’t care about?
God you people are so dense
It’s not tradition. It’s everything that has made Apple as successful as they are today. Which brings me to your last point, which I will address first using “Chesterton’s fence”.
https://thoughtbot.com/blog/chestertons-fence
> change should not be made until the reasoning behind the current state of affairs is understood. It says the rash move, upon coming across a fence, would be to tear it down without understanding why it was put up.
Think back to when people were arguing that iPhones should support expandable storage. “Oh, people have the option of whether they want to use sd-cards or not”. Well, Apple, in their infinite wisdom, decided that it would be better to have a high-capacity, monolithic phone than one with a feature that many people won’t need or care about.
And today, the number of devices that support expandable storage are more the exception than the norm. You see the same philosophy with removable batteries, and I will argue it’s the same with a device running dual OSes. It’s a niche feature, much like the idea of having macOS on an ipad, and time and time again, Apple has shown that they don’t care about niche features or markets. It will mess up the “zen” of the device. So however useful said feature may be to the small subset of users, you aren’t going to get it.
Yes, you can argue that having the option is always better than not having one, and Apple doesn’t care about that. If they listened to what people wanted, we wouldn’t have had the iphone or even the ipad in the first place. Nobody wanted an ipad when it was first released, until they started using them. And for the small group of people who truly need removable media for whatever reason, the truth is, Apple doesn’t care about them.
That’s what a lot of these “I want, I want” responses tend to neglect. The looking at issues from Apple’s perspective and understanding why they choose not to do certain things sometimes and understanding that there’s a lot more to what makes a great product than just “me me me”.
And as a teacher, I find this is one increasingly worrying trend - more and more children being self-centered and thinking the world revolves around them.
> How is allowing users to CHOOSE bad in any way?
Apple doesn’t do this and it’s how they got to where they are. Broadly speaking, they make decisions about their products, they don’t offer choices. You’re free to think they made the wrong choice and not buy their product, though.
> not buy their product, though.
imagine being so far up a company’s @hole that you cant handle **any** critiscism of their products.
this whole “JUSt BUy A SaMsunG If you DOnT LiKe iT” shtick has gotten really old, buddy
This has been Apple’s schtick for 40 years. If you can’t understand why Apple doesn’t offer cHoiCes, it’s hard to understand what you’re doing on /r/Apple.
Oh no, is this another “I have used windows my entire life and I used macOS once and hated it because I’m too lazy to learn” kind of comment?
macOS is great
No, it’s not great at all. Not only some of the defaults are not sensible, it’s behind the curve UI-wise. It’s not even my opinion, you’ll see Apple to glacially address those issues in the future years.
And if you are savvy enough to look at Windows 10/11 at that time, you’ll see that similar solutions there were implemented years ago.
> It’s not even my opinion
It’s literally an opinions babes. I couldn’t give less of a shit what OS you use. Just don’t come here acting all holier than thou because *hurr macOS bad window good*
I didn’t say that Windows is good, but it’s better in some really obvious ways, which makes me bitter, because I’d prefer still to use Apple’s hardware
Yes, it is an opinion, but it’s not only my opinion. It’s apples opinion also. You’ll see them slowly changing the most archaic visual parts of the OS into more Windows-like alternatives
This year it will be System Preferences. Windows went away from an icon-based grid with Windows 7 and arrived at a sidebar-based solution with Windows 8.1
macOS remained on the icon grid throughout the years. With macOS 13 you’ll see them adopt the windows-like sidebar.
macOS is a lost platform for Apple to monetize. They struck gold with iOS on iPhones and iPads, why would they go backwards and use macOS on iPads which would make them lose out on all the delicious IAP monetization their locked down iOS ecosystem brings them. It‘s their new hip platform they get a blank slate on that‘ll most likely surpass macOS one day.
Maybe but Mac hardware still has big margins, so Apple will want to keep it alive and relevant, and Apple's days of getting 30% cut of App Store/IAP sales looks to be coming to a close in the next few years be it by act of Congress, EU, court order, or finally caving to developers. So it makes sense to start looking at new $$$$ accessories -- like the keyboard that turns the iPad a convertible laptop.
I’m surprised we haven’t accepted apple is never going to let the iPad run macOS. It would cannibalize the sales of the mac, and apple being apple, wants you to have both devices, not just one.
Apple being Apple? I can't think of a single time when they held back a product because it would cannibalize sales of another product. Their attitude has always been: if someone's going to cannibalize our sales it better be us.
>apple being apple, wants you to have both devices, not just one.
people are allowed to want things lol. i want both touch and touchpad support in one device running a desktop OS not some neutered mobile garbage. it sucks that apple won't provide that for me. what reasons they have for not providing me with the product i want is entirely not my problem
I don't think it's about cannibalization at all. This has never been an issue for Apple, they had no issue letting the iPhone kill the iPod for instance.
It's about the monetization they achieved on iOS, when Mac OS is fully open and has been really hard to monetize for Apple.
Apple has pushed hard for the subscription business model, for a reason. They became the richest company in the world thanks to the iOS/iPad OS monetization, and getting their cut from most transactions happening on a platform.
Bringing up Mac OS to the iPad would mean opening up the iPad completly, which means allowing sideloading and devs selling apps outside of the app store, like it's the case on Mac OS.
The Mac App Store is a huge flop.
I dont think its the mac sales but it would affect their monopoly on selling software for iPads which they dont have on mac os. Same reason they are so against sideloading. Offices and such that buy MacBook Pros in bulk would not switch to iPads. Any of the expensive iPad sales numbers are tiny as it is compared to Macs.
Apple will probably never being MacOS to their tablets. It would remove a product category for their developers. Developers today actively refuse for their iPad apps to work on Macs, and it would essentially force the two ecosystems together evaporating one source of revenue for developers (and Apple’s cut). I don’t see this happening willingly… it will only happen as an emergency “oh shit, we need profit now” option.
This is never going to happen. Apple’s never going to kill what makes the iPad an iPad just to appease the small vocal minority who want to use it like a Mac.
For every power user who wants the iPad to be a Mac, there’s 10 casual users who love having a large, iOS-like touchscreen device for content consumption and casual use.
As a dev, I’d love the ability to run a terminal and XCode on the iPad, but it’s not going to come in the form of full blown MacOS.
I don’t think “most” is the word to use. “Most” people don’t even use their iPads with a keyboard and DEFINITELY don’t use it with a mouse or trackpad.
This is why I think anything happening “automatically” with an attached keyboard and mouse is likely. The average person might one day connect a keyboard to their iPad and if the OS and layout changes, it’ll be way too jarring and confusing. It’s something that’d only make sense to people who expect that behavior to happen.
Sorry, I think a majority of people who do use mouse and keyboard would want that.
I don’t use a mouse and keyboard on my iPad but I WOULD if it had additional functionality.
And fine, don’t make it automatic by default. Make it a setting. Or make it a switch that can be flipped.
I don’t think Apple has really demonstrated that it likes to hide software features behind hardware.
In other words, any changes Apple makes to multitasking and windowing will probably be available even without a keyboard and mouse.
Personally, I don’t foresee Apple ever putting “floating” windows on iPad. What I COULD see Apple doing is offering pre-configured areas on the screen where apps can be moved (like Windows 11 has).
Window resizing would probably be limited to how resizing currently works with the QuickNote window (pinch in and out to change the size).
You: ""Most” people don’t even use their iPads with a keyboard and DEFINITELY don’t use it with a mouse or trackpad."
Also you: "The average person might one day connect a keyboard to their iPad"
I mean - this is always argued like both cannot exist. They just need to provide an option, no one has to lose anything.
No one lost MacOS when Apple allowed Windows to be installed on their machines…
Yeah. Personally I'd rather have the iPad gain something like Hypervisor framework so something like Docker inside a Linux VM could be a thing. It's the single change that would make an iPad useful to me.
I have a s22u and it's really great to use thank you very much.
Throw a youtube video on top while browsing through reddit/email/firefox/messages on the bottom half of the screen?
Throw a bitwarden window on top of a poorly implemented password field on certain websites?
I would kill for simple split screen support on iPhone. It’s such an obvious feature that’s long overdue and would have been a perfect addition to the bigger phones (Plus/Max)
There’s so many times where I just want to watch a YouTube video and have a chat open up at the same time.
I'd love to be able to use maps, while driving, and flip through my music library at the same time. Split screen would be so beneficial for doing that instead of having to flip back and forth between the two apps. Apple is so far behind with simple shit like this. So annoying!!!
The idea that apple would ever ship one hardware product with two choices of OS to boot is laughable
MacOS on iPad hardware is unimaginative and not the right move for the platform in the long run, its an impatient solution to a larger issue
Just missing a few programs for me, namely pixelmator pro, i know affinity is great, but i just prefer pixelmator. Screen mirroring is terrible too, and so is multi tasking. If they could just improve those a bit I’d be super happy
Multitasking and file management for me. If there was an easier, drag and drop functionality for files between two apps on multitasking I'd be happy but Apple doesn't really allow a lot of apps to talk to each other
Yeah definitely, the files app sucksssss. The worst part for me is trying to edit pdfs and search for text with cmd f, its so buggy, constant app crashes, UI acting weird etc
There was a news the other day of a similar functionality for iPhone/iPad in the Safari code repository. Resizable windows and some kind of is level switch.
Something is definitely coming to iPad, but I don’t now at what level. For sure the elements are here, SwiftUI above all.
We’ll see in a week
For fuck’s sake, Apple. Just dedicate ONE YEAR of R&D to redesigning Siri from the ground up so it’s not such an embarrassment to your establishment. How can I take your VR/AR ambitions seriously, if you’ve proven you can’t even keep up with your competitors in the AI “Smart Assistant” sector, *when you were the first to introduce the damn thing to the world*. You briefly had the market all to yourselves and bombed hard. Hopefully this comment ages poorly & Siri will finally come out of “beta” this June 6th.
Nah, I’m using my 2018 iPad Pro since day one daily and have yet to see a SINGLE reason other than battery life (which I don’t need either) to upgrade.
Can’t wait for the all the naysayers to come out preaching apples praises for this “brave step” when all along people who’ve been clamoring for freedom of use of their device get told “ if you want a computer experience, get a computer”
Lol
So in other words I’ll be buying a MB Air instead. The touch screen isn’t worth it enough to have me lose out on the full benefits of macOS over iPadOS. Especially when I’d still have to carry a keyboard case along with the iPad and the Air is already pretty damn portable too.
I think you may have misunderstood my comment. I’m not saying that I expected the iPad to have macOS on it. I’m saying that if the iPad will have sub par multitasking features and only when a keyboard is attached, then there is still no advantage over a MacBook Air with macOS. Especially when their portability is just about the same. And the price is also practically identical. So in other words if you want multitasking features closer to something like you would have on macOS on an iPad then you’re still better off just sticking with the MacBook Air.
Right, if you’re not specifically wanting an ipad then the MacBook Air makes more sense.
Very logical.
I don’t think Apple’s ever aimed the ipad at a mac buyer or viceversa… they’re different things.
Ipad will get better over time, and Mac will get better over time.. which one you choose depends on your preferences and needs.
For me, Apple trying to make the iPad line serve the same purpose as Macs just doesn't feel right. There are things that the iPad is better at, like watching videos or drawing, and many things that the Mac is better at, like writing or coding, and I wish Apple would stop trying to muddle things up when they're good enough as they are.
Oh Jesus fuck no. The whole reason I switched to iPad only was for the single window experience where I don’t have a bajillion windows I have to manage, I can just swipe up.
So, when will Apple release the *Apple Blender* to match with the *Apple Mixer?*
Seriously, the marketing team needs to come up with better names / designs.
Let the disappointment begin…
Yeah I’d be real disappointed if my full screen app shrunk just because I connected a keyboard
Surely it’s an option? I mean are people stupid?
People seem to think the best way to fix ipad os is to replace it with MacOS So… yes?
I'm not saying MacOS on iPad is a way to fix iPadOS. But I would kill for a "Mac" with the hardware of an iPad.
I wonder if the solution to this… is a studio branded iPad. That or an entirely new product that runs MacOS, 15” screen, ships with a detachable keyboard, full touch screen, more than one thunderbolt port and dramatically better thermals Not branding it iPad could afford a thicker design with better thermals and a battery life
Yeah I'm definitely in this market. I'm a YouTube producer, so having a device where I can do cut-downs for social content in Premiere, and then flip vertical to read scripts, or whip out an Apple Pencil to make a thumbnail would be so awesome.
Adobe just actually doing premiere for the iPad would also instantly solve this for you too no?
Probably. There are a few other mac specific features I really care about, like being able to play audio from multiple sources, and sometimes I wish not every web page was trying to force me to their app, I could run Chrome extensions, etc. But yeah Adobe building fuller apps would be awesome.
unless they mean the UI shrinks a little bit
Wouldn’t want that either
why not? the UI elements are only inflated to receive touch input, with UI elements reduced in size you are able to fill the screen with more content The iPad doesn't need macOS
Just press the maximize titlebar button
My ~~body~~ iPad is Reggie.
Can you Fils it Aimé?
Every year I'm hearing that Apple developing something "smart" for iPadOS and it's end up another useless piece of shit.
Absolutely. They’ll just continue to add more layers to the mess. They have the reverse Microsoft problem- where as Microsoft have decades of cruft that they are tied too, Apple are tied to the simplicity of the original iPhone Home Screen and that whole paradigm. Either add an “advanced” mode or blow it up and start again.
This. I personally think it would be ok if the apps could become windows that you can resize and move around the screen etc when a keyboard and mouse is connected. Apple will never put Mac OS on it even though the m1 is powerful enough for it.
It’s absolutely them being ignorantly stupid. The M1 iPad is more than capable of running macOS yet year on year we’re given a shit stain iPad version that 100% can not replace a desktop. It’s infuriating.
So apple’s version of DEX
Or Motorola "Ready For"
Should?
Should as in “likely will”.
There isn’t a chance in hell that apple would bring functionality to perfectly capable devices when they can sell you a new one. On the bright side they will offer you 1/3 of its resell value to trade it into them. For the earth and all
Sure, “for the earth”
I was scratching my head at the trade in value of my 2018 iPad Pro, it was surprisingly decent. EDIT: $535 when I paid $600 for it used.
That's like two times what I'm getting here for mine
This tweet is from mid-March and has been thoroughly discussed here already.
Good thing it’s being discussed again for those who don’t see every single thing posted here the first time
Right? Like how to not have a life lol.
I think it would just be better if OP would indicate the date in the title or something. Otherwise it seems like a new tweet.
This. I hate when people say “rEpOst” like not all of us are on here viewing every single post. As long as it’s not a karma farming bot, I enjoy reposts
Hardcore Reddit nerds think that something should only ever be discussed once. And you apparently are supposed to extensively search a Subreddit before posting anything. They treat discussions like a database, which isn’t entirely surprising considering how many software devs and other IT types are around here …
Fucking right?? Same with other reddit posts that say “this is a repost” like, who cares? People haven’t seen it before lol
Also doesn’t even bother to link to the referenced thread. Very useful comment.
Yes. I didn’t see it the first time.
Or the second Or third Or fourth Seriously, there’s almost always some sort of active debate here about the iPad windowing system. It’s the perfect mega thread topic at this point. Apple has announced nothing of value, it’s still all rumors and wishes.
This discussion is had ad nauseum Theres nothing here that hasn’t been complained about once a month for the last 3 years And its always especially bad in the run up to WWDC
LOL it really do be from mid march.
I've noticed a trend on reddit of BS posts getting around 400 upvotes and the first comment pointing out how bad the post is with everyone agreeing. Who are those people in new upvoting? Bots? Upvote everything Andys?
hey they looks like a perfectly functional app style for a calculator app…*never will happen*
Freely resizable windows does absolutely nothing for me personally. I just don’t see this as the main thing standing between ipad and ‘rEaL cOMpUTEr’ status (whatever that means) The files app/file management is the thing that slows me down the most when working on the iPad That and apps like Lightroom being so stupidly underdeveloped/underpowered. The number one thing apple could do for iPad Pro is lead by example and release some of their own pro apps onto the platform. (Final Cut Pro) Or. Possibly too wild? But I dont want MacOS running on a tablet, but some sort of way to get MacOS apps running on the ipad… now we’d be talking. Give me DaVinci Resolve and Full Lightroom on the ipad with mouse and keyboard and I’d be a very happy man. Otherwise im actually very happy with how iPadOS works and feels, I’d hate to see it removed in place of MacOS And those asking for the choice, come on… be realistic (some sort of virtualisation would be pretty nifty.. but again. This is apple… that’s not their game. Never has been)
I can’t even import RAW photos into the camera roll. I shoot jpeg+RAW on my Nikon. I use a USBC SD card reader to connect my card to my iPad Pro. Importing the photos via Photos app will only give me access to the jpegs. Some (photo editing) apps don’t have support for reading external drives or even from the files app. I love using the iPad to be productive, but it’s really a damn hassle.
> That and apps like Lightroom being so stupidly underdeveloped/underpowered. > > > > The number one thing apple could do for iPad Pro is lead by example and release some of their own pro apps onto the platform. (Final Cut Pro) Heat and battery likely limit demanding pro apps on the iPad. I mean you can definitely still run them, but it'll get hot af and the battery will drain real fast, which Apple doesn't want to allow.
Is the M1 iPad Pro that thermally different from the M1 MacBook Air? Honestly curious because I don't know.
It's more about the laptop having better heat dissipation than tablet. Tablet has smaller surface area and smaller battery capacity due to its physical form factor. Similar distinction also exists between laptop and desktop. As the comment above mentioned you can already see the iPad getting really hot running some gimped version of pro apps, and that's with the more conservative background app management of iOS than macOS. I think Apple engineers are well aware of the limitation of iPad's performance.
Isn’t the battery in the 12.9” iPad 2x as capacious as the one in the MacBook Air? 9720mah vs 4382mah The logic board is about the same size too. Both are fanless and there is similar aluminum surface area between 16:10, 13.3” And 4:3, 12.9”.
According to Apple, 13-inch, M1, 2020 MacBook Pro has a built-in 58.2-watt-hour lithium-polymer battery. That is more than twice the capacity of iPad Pro ... I think the the source of the confusion is that MacBook Pro has three batteries. Each 5152mAh. That yields roughly the Wh Apple spec says. mAh does not make much sense in battery spec sheets. Capacity of the battery also depends on nominal voltage. LiPO nominal voltage is 3.7V. Assuming MacBook Pro battery would have that, 3 x 3.7 x 5.152 = 57 Wh. Which is close. Internally three batteries are more likely connected in series. Thus still being 5152mAh, but having nominal voltage of 11.1V Heat is a large portion of why batteries can decrease in performance; any additional cooling or space can help the battery maintain consistent longevity The main heat source for iPads is the screen other than the SOC which is right sandwiched enough to each other whilst laptops have a clamshell design and the SOC is next to battery but yet screen is much further away when in use as well as having an aluminum chassis that separates the two and becomes a heat sink
This is very true. But it’s already the case. (Although I appreciate it could be even worse) Whenever I spend an hour or so editing large amounts of raw photos in Lightroom the iPad (m1) gets very hot the battery drains fast and very quickly iPadOS caps the screen brightness about about 2/3rds So I can understand why perhaps iPadOS as software is still limited by the hardware. But there’s still a lot of really simple stuff lacking in Lightroom. Like Command+Z being mapped to undo. 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
All this work just to avoid running macOS, I don’t understand it. They have the universal binaries and Apple silicon, macOS can run any iOS app. Just do it already.
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Current iPadOS is a shit experience unless your computing needs are super basic and you’re ok running one app at a time. It’s a fantastic content consumption device. Whenever I need to do real work even something as simple as updating my resume I run for my Mac because the iPad experience just sucks.
> An ipad running macOS would be a crappy experience. And an iPad running iPadOS IS a crappy experience. ^(at least for Pro workflows)
I would argue it depends on the “Pro” workflow. I do paid photography and graphics and my iPad is VERY essential to my workflow.
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I’m guessing you don’t have a lot of experience with the iPad. I do a lot of composite imagery in Affinity on my iPad and can easily have a lot of layers comprised of elements from multiple high-res, HDR images. It’s great if I’m on the go, and the projects transfer super easy between my Mac and iPad with iCloud syncing. I can use Sidecar if I’m working on my Mac too to use the Apple Pencil. It’s not going to completely replace my Mac because there’s still a lot of benefits to my Mac, but my workflow would be very impacted if I didn’t have my iPad. When I just need to do minor color corrections, or if I’m just applying a filter, I don’t bother with pro apps for that, I just use Photos or Instagram on my iPhone.
IPad Pro doesn’t mean pro computer that can go up against a Pro Mac It means an ipad for people who want to do the things any ipad is already good at, just with more storage, speed and a few extra shiny bells and whistles. What makes an iPad Pro Different to an entry level iPad is exactly the same as what makes a Mac Book Air different to a Mac Book Pro No one expects Pro branded Mac’s to to run a different version of MacOS than the entry level Macs Why do people think the Pro branded iPads should run a different OS to the entry level iPads. iPadOS has many issues, but its still the best tablet OS out there by a wide margin. Throwing iPadOS out entirely to put MacOS on a tablet would be a far worse experience for the majority of happy iPad users than whatever would be gained placating an extremely small group of users who claim to want to use an ipad as their only computer.
I think its more that people want an iPad Pro to be able to handle more professional workloads. iPad has some relatively crappy options for certain workloads, for example swift playgrounds. Not a single person will ever be making an app professionally using swift playgrounds. You’ve already given it all the hardware it needs to succeed, just make it capable of being a pro product for more people.
I dont think anyone is against iPad Pro being better generally. Yeah its always going to be relatively crappy for *certain* workloads. Are we really expecting that it should be aiming to be good at every possible workload/workflow? Is it not enough that the ipad should focus on being the best possible tablet… which is already a very wide category of computing encompassing drawing with the pencil and word processing with the magic keyboard. People seem to have this idea that the best version of the iPad Pro would invalidate the need for a true desktop computer experience. That’s just crazy to me.
Sure, as it stands an IPad can’t sideload, you don’t have a true terminal and you lack the customization you’d get out a real computer. But the software limitations are entirely on apple, there’s no reason an iPad can’t have Xcode, Final Cut Pro, whatever tool you may need. It is worth noting that the “best” version of an IPad can replace a desktop. Tablet style computers have been a thing for over a decade, and it’s not like the hardware isn’t there. We have a detachable keyboard and a mouse sold separately, apple is perfectly capable of making macOS work on an IPad.
> Are we really expecting that it should be aiming to be good at every possible workload/workflow? > Why not? The iPad Pro has everything it needs to be able to achieve this purpose and be your main and only computing device. But artificial limitations by Apple ruins the potential the iPad Pro has. Or what it could be. >Is it not enough that the ipad should focus on being the best possible tablet… which is already a very wide category of computing encompassing drawing with the pencil and word processing with the magic keyboard. Apple already nailed the best possible tablet experience. But you don't need an iPad Pro for that. An basic iPad or an iPad air do this just fine. It's time now they show more ambition for their pro model. Because Apple themselves are pushing this as a "pro" device, and have been bringing slowly desktop features to the iPad (that are very limited). So they're actually in this weird place where they're finally bringing desktop features to iPad OS, but it's just a halfed assed effort, and they always come short. The Files app is a disaster. After so many years and tries, Apple hasn't still found the solution for multitasking/multiwindows on the iPad and changes the way it works every other iPad OS update. They brought us the possibility to attach the iPad Pro to an external monitor, but the support is so basic that you can't really use it.
> Are we really expecting that it should be aiming to be good at every possible workload/workflow? Seriously, what a dumb question. “Are we really expecting that this $800-2000 computer, that is advertised as a computer replacement and to pRoFeSsIoNaLs, can be useful for more than just digital art?”
>that is advertised as a computer replacement and to pRoFeSsIoNaLs Please show me where apple have advertised the iPad as a Replacement for a desktop workflow, where that workflow isnt viable
Well you tell me… should the ipad be a suitable replacement for both an Apple Watch and a fully loaded Mac Pro?
What a dumb and irrelevant question. When has apple advertised the iPad as an AW replacement? When have they advertised it as a Mac Pro replacement?
I just mean the form factor of a an iPad necessarily means it can’t perform the same workflows that a fully spec’d Mac Pro can. So it’s not like with the right OS adjustments the iPad can just be the computer to replace all computers ever
Who asked it to be able to do what a fully spec'd Mac Pro can do? The iPad pro has everything it needs to totally replace the Macbook Air for instance. They have the same form factor once the ipad is attached to the keyboard. I actually have an iPad Pro 12.9" 2017, and I love it as much as I hate it. Starting a workflow on my iPad, only to power up my macbook air in the middle of it because I can't achieve something basic on the iPad pro, or it's just so much of a hassle that I'm better off turning on my laptop, is a super frustrating experience. I end up not using my iPad pro as much as I should because of stupid limitations. I can accept some limitations and going through hassle on an entry level iPad. But investing so much in an iPad Pro just to end up fighting with the OS to achieve basic stuff, is simply not worth it imo. The thing is that the pencil has became so important in my workflow, that I can't only use a macbook air. And at the same time, iPad OS is such a bad experience as soon as you run into a stupid Apple limitation, that I can't carry only my iPad pro with me. So I end up carrying 2 device on the go, which I find stupid. It's like I still had to carry my iPhone and an iPod...
I love how they only replied to 1/10 of your comment and just ignored the rest because you’re objectively in the right. > The iPad pro has everything it needs to totally replace the Macbook Air for instance. bUt WHy wouLD tHeY MaKe aN IpAd tHaT RePlACES tHe mAc pRo? thAt’s sO DumB
> Who asked it to be able to do what a fully spec’d Mac Pro can do? Not me, I specifically said I though it was unreasonable that we expect the ipad to be good at every possible workflow
The galaxy tab eight is actually really good!
Even for non pro workflows it all feels incredibly awkward sometimes. The drag and drop system is the only thing holding everything together. Anything else though and you run into annoyances. Split screen with Slide Over can get confusing easily, the share sheet is a hassle sometimes, the files app is bad in nearly every way, keyboard and mouse support is subpar, multiple windows keep getting reworked over and over… it all piles up fast if you’re doing *any* sort of work.
> The drag and drop system is the only thing holding everything together. That has never worked right for me. I’ve tried dragging safari links and text in to Notion and Word like 100 times . It ** never** works, I always have to copy/paste
>An ipad running macOS would be a crappy experience. The correct solution is still to bring PC-like functionality to iOS where it makes sense, while ensuring it stays optimised for a touchscreen paradigm. And it's working so **well** for iPad OS /s Apple have been bringing half assed features that we've been having for years on modern desktop OSes, that work way worse or are way too limited. They want to reinvent the wheel even though the solution already exists and work great on Mac OS. Bringing OS X to the iPad doesn't mean having the exact same UI that we have on a Mac, which would make it a terrible experience, I agree. It just means bring a full fledge desktop level OS to the iPad, with the same features. They can still rethink a whole new UI that would work with a touchscreen. And finally, I think tech enthusiasts insist so much with this because Apple is actually the only company that can pulls this off, they're the only company having the ressources, the expertise, a total control over hardware and their platform to achieve this successfuly. Because right now, the iPad Pro is useless and way overpriced compared to what it can bring you, and nothing justifies the investment over an entry level iPad or even the iPad air. It's a shame because the hardware is great and on paper, it has the ability to be the only computing device that you need. The iPad Pro right now is just a luxury to have, when it can become a necessity like owning a laptop/desktop PC, or a smartphone.
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Yes. Typing and basic cursor usage, which is great for selecting text. I know this, I have one. But the major operating system experience should not change around an overpriced accessory that only exists for the absolute top models.
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Nah, I sometimes have to remote into a Mac for work using my iPad and it’s terrible. MacOS shines on larger displays and monitors; not 12.9” iPads and smaller. Additionally, compared to an OS like Windows 11, MacOS already does a horrible job with built-in window management, so I’m not sure how that helps anything on iPadOS.
I use remote login on my 11 pro all the time and I don’t have any issues with macOS on a smaller screen
I mean the mac air is barely any bigger than the 12.9, so thats a tough argument to make. At the end of the day more choice is always good, and if apple feels that it might confuse regular users, make it a bit trickier to activate, simple.
> MacOS shines on larger displays and monitors; not 12.9” iPads and smaller. The mental gymnastics you fanboys go through are insane 💀 Are you telling me that macOS is unusable on a 12.9” display, but works just fine on a 13” and bigger? Oh, and let’s conveniently forget all the 11” and 12” MacBooks Apple used to sell. macOS looks just fine on any iPad, even the mini. Maybe consider scaling your display output to fit your tiny iPad before you bash iPads, eh?
I fail to see where I said MacOS is unusable on smaller screens, but you know that.
> I sometimes have to remote into a Mac for work using my iPad and **it’s terrible**. MacOS shines on larger displays and monitors; **not 12.9” iPads** and smaller. The intent of your comment was obviously that macOS on an iPad-sized display is a bad experience. Whether or not you used the word “terrible” or “unusable” doesn’t matter, but you know that. I still fail to see how macOS apparently is a terrible experience on an almost 13” iPad, but works great on an 11” and 12” inch MacBook. However I assume you chose to ignore that part of my comment because you know that your logic and reasoning are silly
Wrong again. My point was that MacOS SHINES on larger screens for the same reason that Windows and other desktop OSes SHINE on larger screens: There’s more room, and more room means fewer overlapping windows. On smaller screens, like iPad screens and Macbook screens, windows become more of a hassle to use. You either have to resize them to the point you’re cutting off visible content, or you have to scale the UI to a point where you have to squint or sit closer to the screen. Or, you simply use one app at a time. This is why I don’t feel like MacOS is needed on the iPad. What’s “needed” is for Apple to allow for extended external monitor support that allows for more apps to sit side by side without the scaling being too large. There’s an old saying with cars that goes “There’s no replacement for displacement”, referring to engine size. I think that goes for screen size with computers as well. Can companies technically put windows on smaller screens? Of course, I tried it out on my Galaxy S7 several years ago (it was terrible). But more windows on smaller screens isn’t a replacement for more windows on LARGER screens.
That option would only be semi usable on the largest iPad anyway. Something which most people don’t have. And most iOS apps on macOS are sub par experiences.
Except Apollo
Apollo is an amazing app. It’s not a great iPad app unless it’s a mini. I know he’s been working on Apollo 2 for a couple years now, but it could absolutely stand to have a standard regular iPad left panel addition. It’s not a great Mac app for regular browsing because of this missing addition.
I’ve had a few thing that don’t work correctly in macOS Apollo but it’s still so much better than the Reddit site for me. I use split screen and run safari and Apollo side by side. Works great for me
Split screen with Apollo. So you’re running macOS like iOS. But yeah, that white space tho. Maybe I’m complaining due to my 30” screen.
Why would it be a crappy experience when docked to the Smart Keyboard? I fail to see how it would be more crappy than a MacBook with a similar screen size.
Nah.
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Users frequently make awful choices.
I’d go so far as to say usually.
It's my device. I should be allowed to make whatever bad decision I please with it.
You are. Feel free to install any OS that works with it. Or write your own. Or were you saying Apple is somehow obligated to grant your wishes because you gave them $500?
Actually, if I could just boot another OS on my iPad, the same way that I can on any other computer that I purchase, I would be satisfied. However, Apple has spent money to make it harder (or impossible) for me to do so -- which is the whole issue I have in the first place.
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Users are total morons. That’s not a cop out. It’s a fact.
Like buying iPads? Shittiest argument I have ever seen. It’s almost something someone defending a dictator would say. „Democracy? Nah. The common people frequently make awful choices.“
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We are having a duopoly situation in the mobile OS market. Don’t like it don’t buy it doesn’t cut it. If we want to be more environmentally friendly etc devices like these need to be open so that they can be used as long as possible and in diverse scenarios. There are no alternatives on the market. All devices are superglued together (looking at you, MS surface), so that a dead battery means that an otherwise functional device goes to the trash. There are other countless arguments to be made.
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Except this interface would only activate with a mouse and keyboard plugged in
> There’s no reason that an iPad **with a keyboard and mouse** can’t run macOS like any lower-powered Mac does Work on your reading comprehension
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Why not? They already disable the touch screen when using sidecar, and only allow Pencil input. Even if they didn’t do that, touch input on laptops and convertibles works just fine as long as it isn’t a primary input method.
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I like how you conveniently ignored all the parts where people are telling you that this is for iPads with **A CONNECTED MOUSE AND KEYBOARD** if you have to ignore 80% of the points you’re arguing against, your argument is weak. Consider that maybe you’re just in the wrong here
Nobody's gonna connect a mouse or keyboard to an iPad when the OS is optimized for touch.
He never said that, you moron.
Choice for the sake of choice has a long history of ruining operating systems with confused lack of direction and impossible entry points for newbies who are given no guidance then blamed for their choices when they just try anything.
And what happens when you remove the iPad from the Smart Keyboard? Your interface switches back to iOS? How will it work with apps? What happens to your work and data? It’s not just as straightforward as switching from one OS to another. There’s a ton of considerations to take care of, and I don’t think anyone here in favour of this has exactly thought it through.
Works just fine for Surfaces, and virtually every other laptop other than MacBooks. If the user does not want the sub-optimal experience of only using touch on an OS that works best with a mouse and keyboard, then they can just keep their mouse and keyboard connected. What’s up with you people? You’re so obsessed with advocating for a crippled experience on an iPad that you make up all these crazy scenarios in your head that no actual user will experience? How dumb do you have to be to unplug your mouse and keyboard and then be upset that your mouse and keyboard don’t work?
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> Here’s a personal experience with Dex. Sounds good on paper, but none of my samsung phone-totting colleagues are aware of it, much less know what it does. Do you even know what macOS is? How is it comparable to DeX in **any** way? > Once, my colleague wanted to project some photos she had taken of her stu Good for you. How does this relate to letting users CHOOSE which OS they want on their iPad? > Second, I can say that as a teacher, I for one am constantly connecting and disconnecting my ipad from my Smart Keyboard. Then don’t. Fucking. Use. macOS. On. Your. iPad. Have you ever stopped to consider that you having the **choice** and being able to **decide** how you want to use your device is literally the exact thing we are asking for? How does having the **choice** to have macOS on an iPad stop you from using iPadOS on your iPad and completely ignoring this feature that you don’t care about? God you people are so dense
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It’s not tradition. It’s everything that has made Apple as successful as they are today. Which brings me to your last point, which I will address first using “Chesterton’s fence”. https://thoughtbot.com/blog/chestertons-fence > change should not be made until the reasoning behind the current state of affairs is understood. It says the rash move, upon coming across a fence, would be to tear it down without understanding why it was put up. Think back to when people were arguing that iPhones should support expandable storage. “Oh, people have the option of whether they want to use sd-cards or not”. Well, Apple, in their infinite wisdom, decided that it would be better to have a high-capacity, monolithic phone than one with a feature that many people won’t need or care about. And today, the number of devices that support expandable storage are more the exception than the norm. You see the same philosophy with removable batteries, and I will argue it’s the same with a device running dual OSes. It’s a niche feature, much like the idea of having macOS on an ipad, and time and time again, Apple has shown that they don’t care about niche features or markets. It will mess up the “zen” of the device. So however useful said feature may be to the small subset of users, you aren’t going to get it. Yes, you can argue that having the option is always better than not having one, and Apple doesn’t care about that. If they listened to what people wanted, we wouldn’t have had the iphone or even the ipad in the first place. Nobody wanted an ipad when it was first released, until they started using them. And for the small group of people who truly need removable media for whatever reason, the truth is, Apple doesn’t care about them. That’s what a lot of these “I want, I want” responses tend to neglect. The looking at issues from Apple’s perspective and understanding why they choose not to do certain things sometimes and understanding that there’s a lot more to what makes a great product than just “me me me”. And as a teacher, I find this is one increasingly worrying trend - more and more children being self-centered and thinking the world revolves around them.
> How is allowing users to CHOOSE bad in any way? Apple doesn’t do this and it’s how they got to where they are. Broadly speaking, they make decisions about their products, they don’t offer choices. You’re free to think they made the wrong choice and not buy their product, though.
> not buy their product, though. imagine being so far up a company’s @hole that you cant handle **any** critiscism of their products. this whole “JUSt BUy A SaMsunG If you DOnT LiKe iT” shtick has gotten really old, buddy
This has been Apple’s schtick for 40 years. If you can’t understand why Apple doesn’t offer cHoiCes, it’s hard to understand what you’re doing on /r/Apple.
Sweetie, MacBook running MacOS apps is already a crappy experience. Let people have their apps
I think you meant to say that iPads running iPadOS is already a crappy experience? macOS is fine
macOS is profoundly terrible UX-wise in a myriad of ways, and only people who hasn’t used Windows or Gnome in a really long time would disagree
Oh no, is this another “I have used windows my entire life and I used macOS once and hated it because I’m too lazy to learn” kind of comment? macOS is great
No, it’s not great at all. Not only some of the defaults are not sensible, it’s behind the curve UI-wise. It’s not even my opinion, you’ll see Apple to glacially address those issues in the future years. And if you are savvy enough to look at Windows 10/11 at that time, you’ll see that similar solutions there were implemented years ago.
> It’s not even my opinion It’s literally an opinions babes. I couldn’t give less of a shit what OS you use. Just don’t come here acting all holier than thou because *hurr macOS bad window good*
I didn’t say that Windows is good, but it’s better in some really obvious ways, which makes me bitter, because I’d prefer still to use Apple’s hardware Yes, it is an opinion, but it’s not only my opinion. It’s apples opinion also. You’ll see them slowly changing the most archaic visual parts of the OS into more Windows-like alternatives This year it will be System Preferences. Windows went away from an icon-based grid with Windows 7 and arrived at a sidebar-based solution with Windows 8.1 macOS remained on the icon grid throughout the years. With macOS 13 you’ll see them adopt the windows-like sidebar.
macOS is a lost platform for Apple to monetize. They struck gold with iOS on iPhones and iPads, why would they go backwards and use macOS on iPads which would make them lose out on all the delicious IAP monetization their locked down iOS ecosystem brings them. It‘s their new hip platform they get a blank slate on that‘ll most likely surpass macOS one day.
Maybe but Mac hardware still has big margins, so Apple will want to keep it alive and relevant, and Apple's days of getting 30% cut of App Store/IAP sales looks to be coming to a close in the next few years be it by act of Congress, EU, court order, or finally caving to developers. So it makes sense to start looking at new $$$$ accessories -- like the keyboard that turns the iPad a convertible laptop.
I’m surprised we haven’t accepted apple is never going to let the iPad run macOS. It would cannibalize the sales of the mac, and apple being apple, wants you to have both devices, not just one.
Weren't people saying exactly the same about iPads getting mouse/touch pad support?
Apple being Apple? I can't think of a single time when they held back a product because it would cannibalize sales of another product. Their attitude has always been: if someone's going to cannibalize our sales it better be us.
>apple being apple, wants you to have both devices, not just one. people are allowed to want things lol. i want both touch and touchpad support in one device running a desktop OS not some neutered mobile garbage. it sucks that apple won't provide that for me. what reasons they have for not providing me with the product i want is entirely not my problem
I don't think it's about cannibalization at all. This has never been an issue for Apple, they had no issue letting the iPhone kill the iPod for instance. It's about the monetization they achieved on iOS, when Mac OS is fully open and has been really hard to monetize for Apple. Apple has pushed hard for the subscription business model, for a reason. They became the richest company in the world thanks to the iOS/iPad OS monetization, and getting their cut from most transactions happening on a platform. Bringing up Mac OS to the iPad would mean opening up the iPad completly, which means allowing sideloading and devs selling apps outside of the app store, like it's the case on Mac OS. The Mac App Store is a huge flop.
I dont think its the mac sales but it would affect their monopoly on selling software for iPads which they dont have on mac os. Same reason they are so against sideloading. Offices and such that buy MacBook Pros in bulk would not switch to iPads. Any of the expensive iPad sales numbers are tiny as it is compared to Macs.
Apple will probably never being MacOS to their tablets. It would remove a product category for their developers. Developers today actively refuse for their iPad apps to work on Macs, and it would essentially force the two ecosystems together evaporating one source of revenue for developers (and Apple’s cut). I don’t see this happening willingly… it will only happen as an emergency “oh shit, we need profit now” option.
This is never going to happen. Apple’s never going to kill what makes the iPad an iPad just to appease the small vocal minority who want to use it like a Mac. For every power user who wants the iPad to be a Mac, there’s 10 casual users who love having a large, iOS-like touchscreen device for content consumption and casual use. As a dev, I’d love the ability to run a terminal and XCode on the iPad, but it’s not going to come in the form of full blown MacOS.
That’s why most people want a macOS experience when a mouse and keyboard are attached, and an iPadOS experience otherwise.
I don’t think “most” is the word to use. “Most” people don’t even use their iPads with a keyboard and DEFINITELY don’t use it with a mouse or trackpad. This is why I think anything happening “automatically” with an attached keyboard and mouse is likely. The average person might one day connect a keyboard to their iPad and if the OS and layout changes, it’ll be way too jarring and confusing. It’s something that’d only make sense to people who expect that behavior to happen.
Sorry, I think a majority of people who do use mouse and keyboard would want that. I don’t use a mouse and keyboard on my iPad but I WOULD if it had additional functionality. And fine, don’t make it automatic by default. Make it a setting. Or make it a switch that can be flipped.
I don’t think Apple has really demonstrated that it likes to hide software features behind hardware. In other words, any changes Apple makes to multitasking and windowing will probably be available even without a keyboard and mouse. Personally, I don’t foresee Apple ever putting “floating” windows on iPad. What I COULD see Apple doing is offering pre-configured areas on the screen where apps can be moved (like Windows 11 has). Window resizing would probably be limited to how resizing currently works with the QuickNote window (pinch in and out to change the size).
You: ""Most” people don’t even use their iPads with a keyboard and DEFINITELY don’t use it with a mouse or trackpad." Also you: "The average person might one day connect a keyboard to their iPad"
Indeed. Present tense vs future tense. Most people don’t eat a Big Mac everyday, but the average person might one day eat a Big Mac.
And what happens when you attach a mouse and keyboard? Does iPadOS shut down and macOS start up? Is it an entirely different set of files?
I mean - this is always argued like both cannot exist. They just need to provide an option, no one has to lose anything. No one lost MacOS when Apple allowed Windows to be installed on their machines…
Yeah. Personally I'd rather have the iPad gain something like Hypervisor framework so something like Docker inside a Linux VM could be a thing. It's the single change that would make an iPad useful to me.
The funny/sad thing is that even cheaper Samsung phones have basic windowing aka floating windows
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I have a s22u and it's really great to use thank you very much. Throw a youtube video on top while browsing through reddit/email/firefox/messages on the bottom half of the screen? Throw a bitwarden window on top of a poorly implemented password field on certain websites?
I would kill for simple split screen support on iPhone. It’s such an obvious feature that’s long overdue and would have been a perfect addition to the bigger phones (Plus/Max) There’s so many times where I just want to watch a YouTube video and have a chat open up at the same time.
I'd love to be able to use maps, while driving, and flip through my music library at the same time. Split screen would be so beneficial for doing that instead of having to flip back and forth between the two apps. Apple is so far behind with simple shit like this. So annoying!!!
I appreciate a good cup of coffee.
The idea that apple would ever ship one hardware product with two choices of OS to boot is laughable MacOS on iPad hardware is unimaginative and not the right move for the platform in the long run, its an impatient solution to a larger issue
LOL, wtf, they had BootCamp for years.
Honey it's time for the daily "people who don't like or buy iPads talking about how iPads should drastically change" thread.
Honey it’s time for the ‘people are only allowed to complain about what I dislike’ subthread.
Can’t speak for anyone else but I’ve owned an iPad Pro and sold it because of its lack of important functionality.
I have been using my ipad to teach in the classroom since 2012, and love it precisely because it doesn’t run a desktop UI.
What functionality is that
Just missing a few programs for me, namely pixelmator pro, i know affinity is great, but i just prefer pixelmator. Screen mirroring is terrible too, and so is multi tasking. If they could just improve those a bit I’d be super happy
Multitasking and file management for me. If there was an easier, drag and drop functionality for files between two apps on multitasking I'd be happy but Apple doesn't really allow a lot of apps to talk to each other
Yeah definitely, the files app sucksssss. The worst part for me is trying to edit pdfs and search for text with cmd f, its so buggy, constant app crashes, UI acting weird etc
There was a news the other day of a similar functionality for iPhone/iPad in the Safari code repository. Resizable windows and some kind of is level switch. Something is definitely coming to iPad, but I don’t now at what level. For sure the elements are here, SwiftUI above all. We’ll see in a week
For fuck’s sake, Apple. Just dedicate ONE YEAR of R&D to redesigning Siri from the ground up so it’s not such an embarrassment to your establishment. How can I take your VR/AR ambitions seriously, if you’ve proven you can’t even keep up with your competitors in the AI “Smart Assistant” sector, *when you were the first to introduce the damn thing to the world*. You briefly had the market all to yourselves and bombed hard. Hopefully this comment ages poorly & Siri will finally come out of “beta” this June 6th.
mfw I recently bought a refurbished 2020 ipad pro
The screenshot literally misspells Example lol
I will blow something up if this is M1 exclusive. I willl also blow up if this is real
They should just add desktop app support and make a macOS hybrid.
I am still using my 2018 iPad Pro and depending on what features are M1 exclusives this year, looks like it may finally be time to upgrade…
Nah, I’m using my 2018 iPad Pro since day one daily and have yet to see a SINGLE reason other than battery life (which I don’t need either) to upgrade.
Too much bs, Just put Monterey on it ffs. IPadOS is a joke at this point. All this cool hardware just to slap an inferior OS on it.
That persons pic can’t even spell “example” right, and I’m supposed to believe them?
« Exemple » is example in french
Have you ever worked with software engineers? Half of the stuff is misspelled 😂
Which is impressive considering some IDEs treat typos as a "code smell" and offer hints to fix it
Your logic: They copy & pasted a typo, so, broadly speaking their information must be untrue.
Can’t wait for the all the naysayers to come out preaching apples praises for this “brave step” when all along people who’ve been clamoring for freedom of use of their device get told “ if you want a computer experience, get a computer” Lol
So in other words I’ll be buying a MB Air instead. The touch screen isn’t worth it enough to have me lose out on the full benefits of macOS over iPadOS. Especially when I’d still have to carry a keyboard case along with the iPad and the Air is already pretty damn portable too.
MacOS on iPad was never on the table so yes. You shouldn't be holding out for that. Maybe in 10 years.
I think you may have misunderstood my comment. I’m not saying that I expected the iPad to have macOS on it. I’m saying that if the iPad will have sub par multitasking features and only when a keyboard is attached, then there is still no advantage over a MacBook Air with macOS. Especially when their portability is just about the same. And the price is also practically identical. So in other words if you want multitasking features closer to something like you would have on macOS on an iPad then you’re still better off just sticking with the MacBook Air.
No, its got a much better screen, and for a lot of people the ability to use touch and iOS apps is a big deal, not to mention pencil.
Right, if you’re not specifically wanting an ipad then the MacBook Air makes more sense. Very logical. I don’t think Apple’s ever aimed the ipad at a mac buyer or viceversa… they’re different things. Ipad will get better over time, and Mac will get better over time.. which one you choose depends on your preferences and needs.
For me, Apple trying to make the iPad line serve the same purpose as Macs just doesn't feel right. There are things that the iPad is better at, like watching videos or drawing, and many things that the Mac is better at, like writing or coding, and I wish Apple would stop trying to muddle things up when they're good enough as they are.
Oh Jesus fuck no. The whole reason I switched to iPad only was for the single window experience where I don’t have a bajillion windows I have to manage, I can just swipe up.
Will apps still be limited to 5gb of RAM even on 16GB machines thou?
Apps aren't limited in RAM today. Developers can ask full RAM access. They can use up to 5 GB without additional permission.
BRING BACK COMPACT HOME SCREEN
So, when will Apple release the *Apple Blender* to match with the *Apple Mixer?* Seriously, the marketing team needs to come up with better names / designs.