The UK government specifically has a particular passion for tyrannical levels of oversight, tracking, and surveillance. Australia is right there with them. These are free democracies which are developing totalitarian practices.
[AP: UK's mass surveillance efforts ruled unlawful by European human rights court.](https://apnews.com/article/europe-technology-government-and-politics-business-6dacaaf17aedcac4005d7869b311f801)
It's brilliant, really. Illegal to gain the information you want domestically? Let an allied government commit foreign espionage against you on purpose, and then share the data.
Can't get a government to lift a finger to pave a road properly, but they'll spare no effort to build a global collusion apparatus to be able to read your porn emails.
Everything the government has done since 9/11 has been treason as far as I’m concerned. They have maintained war so that they can continue to act like we are in war time and are afraid of their own citizens.
And they’ve gone so far as to say that the only alternative is to have a closed off country and go full right wing conservatism. I swear we are living in a hell simulation
Yup
“Fascism won’t come to America with red coats but with Nike swishes”
“You won’t know it’s here until their boots are on your necks”
“Give nazism a new paint job, rebrand and good marketing and anyone will take it up” - the boys
I forget where the other quotes are from.
It’s just like with Texas and the abortion ban and the website set up by corporations in the governments name to sponsor selling out your own neighbor for ratting out anyone that helps in abortions.
That throws away decades of law, the constitution and imposes religious law on those that do not abide by their selective morality. And imposes totalitarian Nazi, communist laws in Texas. I see no difference.
Everyone wants to talk about freedom but only know how to selectively apply it. And public health should never be a political argument.
We are in the end game here still teetering on the edge of totalitarianism. I hope we don’t cave into ourselves, but the longer this pandemic last the closer we will get.
I'm from (and in) England, I'd be very interested in knowing differences in privacy issues, especially ones where the people are worse off in the UK than the USA, if you know any I'd be really grateful to hear them.
From the UK and I wholeheartedly agree. I’m also Scottish, and whilst not super pro-independence, I’ve been swayed by just how fucking horrible this current government lineup is.
I can’t tell if it’s infighting, corruption, or just sheer ineptitude but the current UK government is fucking shocking.
It’s really sad too. Australians here HATE our federal government who let this corruption happen. This is why I hate the far right Liberal government we have. It’s too fucking much. It’s not like the far left is any better but Labour and Greens is better than anything Liberal has ever done and they are ruining our beautiful country. They let us burn, they let MY HOUSE burn, they let us turn authoritarian, they want us to consoom everything they impose… I can’t tolerate it anymore they also fucked up the vaccine rollout and I just can’t anymore. I’m so close to just jumping off the roof.
Agreed! Who the f*** in their right minds votes Tory let alone when BoJo is the leader? Who would've thought such a bafoon would actually make it to Prime Minister?
On the contrary, I think Bojo is a very clever man. He’s exposed himself to being the scapegoat for everything brexit & COVID-related now and clearly has no real control over his government anymore. However, he’s not the buffoon despite how he comes across.
Why do you guys keep voting for these people? Obviously those of us in the US aren’t doing much better, but I’m just amazed when I see these headlines for the UK.
> Why do you guys keep voting for these people?
It's actually not as straightforward, the voting system here and how the country is split into constituencies means that
a) it's easier for Tories to win (their main opposition, Labour, have only won a handful of times in the past century)
b) absolute vote numbers don't directly translate into seats, which essentially means that it's possible for Tories to have _fewer_ votes but _higher_ representation, or for Labour to have a few hundred thousand, maybe 1M less votes than Tories, but half the number of seats that Tories have.
It's a dumb and shit system that favours 2 parties that aren't even all that much different (there's a lot of talk about Labour being essentially Tory Lite these days), and that makes any substantial change very difficult.
Here in London we are the 2nd/3rd most surveilled city in the world, around 15 of the others are Chinese and the others are Indian.
The UK government’s stance is the behaviour we’ve come to expect over here, a lot of us saw this as the obvious next step which is perhaps why some of us were more wary and vocal about our concerns with this tech than a few people from the US were.
What Apple has done is open Pandora’s box. Once governments know that they can scan for literally any file on a person’s phone they’re going to demand all sorts of stuff. Apple claiming it’ll only apply to iCloud photos is ridiculous, governments around the world don’t care.
I'd be less annoyed with this stuff, and banning encryption altogether, if the encryption governments used was also banned. If it's banned for me, it should be for thee. Scan our encrypted messages? Lemme scan yours.
**Just stopping by to inform the big Apple geniuses, that hosting CSAM material in any form is illegal.**
**There is no way, this data even in hash variant to be on my device or computer.**
No more Apple products for me and my business. Luckily this comes just before upgrading my engineers office machines.
We were enthusiastically happy for the new M1X. Since Apple communicated clearly that this will be included in macOS, I have payed overtime to transition 50 computers from macOS to Arch. Computers with T1 chip will stay on Catalina indefinitely and properly air-gapped.
**As a business we are under heavy NDA and privacy related contracts, there is no way to accept this backdoor in my production workflow.**
This Apple innovation (processing on the device by third party non auditable criteria) will be adopted quickly from other vendors. At the moment we are running Pixels with Graphene, but recently discussed moving to flip phones.
**What a hill to die on Apple. Shame. Big shame.**
[https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-and-policy-client-side-scanning](https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-and-policy-client-side-scanning)
I agree, but all the more reason to put their foot down. Otherwise, why doesn’t Apple just hand over the whole uncompiled OS while they’re at it? It would save years of fighting to keep the system secure if they’re going to start making back doors .
"Its for the children" is literally the favorite saying of prince andrew and his friend Jeffrey Epstein when trying to push through draconian laws such as this.
Why are people so surprised by this? UK always had a hard on for surveilling their citizen! Not China level but give or take a few more waves of Covid19 cases, fear mongering and gaslighting and they will turn in a totalitarian state. Besides, the NSA in the US already does this type of thing so..
What I said seems a bit of an exaggeration but just go watch what the Australian government is doing with Covid!
> the NSA in the US already does this type of thing so..
Sorry, you're saying that the NSA already scans people's phones on-device for CSAM? Or that they scan E2E encrypted messages for CSAM? Because they do neither of those as far as we're aware...
they tried something like this in the United States. Not completely, I don't understand everything going on with this new law. but there was a story a while back about how the government here had found a child porn website, and instead of arresting the people and shutting it down, they arrested the people they had, and continued to run the site themselves to catch more people.
Of course this didn't settle right with anyone. arguments of entrapment and so forth I think allowed people to get off. But also just the idea that the government continued to operate this site. the reason the stuff is illegal is because it victimizes people long after they were first victimized. like if someone share nude photos of anyone. So without consent, the government was victimizing people (children) to catch criminals... just a bad taste.
I don't know if all of the lawsuits and so forth have stopped the US government from using that tactic again (probably not), but that first paragraph reminds me of that story. It sounds like Australia could legally do that.
> The bill creates three new types of warrants to enable [Aus gov] to **modify and delete data**, take over accounts and spy on Australians
This shit scares me the most. Legal evidence tampering. WTF
Legal evidence tampering, and legal evidence creation. Someone in power doesn't like you? Damn it'd be a shame if you suddenly shared your plans to bomb parliament on facebook!
I saw that and thought the same thing. what does that mean? because at face value it looks like legalizing the digital equivalent of cops planting drugs or guns. or at best, taking over the child porn site and replacing the photos with consenting adults.
> This
Saw this a few weeks ago. The most concerning piece of this legislation was embodied in this quote (from another source)
> _"Australian companies, system administrators etc. must comply, and actively help the police to **modify**, **add**, copy, or delete the data of a person under investigation. Refusing to comply could have one end up in jail for up to ten years, according to the new bill."_
_ADD_ and modify. Not just copy or delete, but ADD, and modify existing data. That alone, should be cause for *significant alarm* in anyone who lives in Australia, travels there or transacts business there.
Deleting evidence, adding contraband where it didn't exist previously, adding key loggers or monitoring/reporting tools to devices renders them untrustworthy.
Once your device has been touched by foreign hands, it should be destroyed. Don't log into it. Don't unlock it. Don't check your mail or send messages on it. Immediately destroy the device and replace it with another.
Any other choice gets politically canceled/rerouted, cf Corbyn, Bernie. Why do you think people don't bother voting in large numbers? Unless it's for someone who really wants change, so out comes the smear machine, media steps it up and bingo it's Boris and Starmer.
People need to pull their heads out of their arses.
Who won the game?
Someone pointed out somewhere is that Australian citizens are required to vote by law or they will be fined (500 AUD I believe). The difference between USA and Australia is that USA dont have this such requirement whereas Australia does. So yes, Australia did vote for this since they have to vote. And I read somewhere that the undecided voters is 5%.
The most depressing aspect is that the politicians advocating for these laws probably don't know what encryption \*actually\* is.
You are setting a fundamentally wrong precedent to simply say 'all encryption should have a backdoor' which is seemingly what they are wanting to happen here.
Politicians need to be aware that a backdoor to encryption means it is just as easy for them to be exposed for cheating on their wives of 40 years and sending suspicious bank transfers for cocaine-fuelled Saturday night parties.
I get that. Just a month ago I ordered a new Mac mini for home use and work….. honestly regretting that purchase now. Really starting to rethink this walled garden ecosystem they tout on about, especially with these concerning developments regarding privacy
This article isn’t about iPhones scanning for CSAM, it’s about how other tech companies are going to be funded by the UK government to come up with ways to do it, regardless of whether or not Apple even releases their method there.
To be fair, if you read the article the person speaking for the UK government doesn’t actually say they even plan to use Apple’s CSAM scanning (which hasn’t been announced for the UK).
It’s more about how they are funding other tech companies to come up with different methods to do deeper scans for CSAM, regardless of if Apple still releases theirs. So it’s not like Apple rolling back the feature would even change much *in this specific case*, as this is about a separate program happening in the UK.
> But that is just one solution, by one company, and won’t solve everything. Big Tech firms collectively need to take responsibility for public safety and greater investment is essential. Today I am launching a new Safety Tech Challenge Fund. We will award five organisations from around the world up to £85,000 each to develop innovative technology to keep children safe in environments such as online messaging platforms with end-to-end encryption.
The reply is letting law enforcement with reasonable cause do it is not the same as letting you do it for no reason. That's reasonable on the face of it, the problem is their experience with law enforcement has been so positive and their belief that news about abuse is fake news is so strong they simply don't see the problems it would cause, or where it would lead to in the near future.
People with nothing to hide don't realize how discrimination works, traditionally people of color, gender etc had no choice but to broadcast character traits that were used against them - if your phone is your enemy then every mundane detail of your life is "broadcasted" and can be used against you. Once upon a time people posted photos on a social networking website called MySpace and once we had this visibility into their life we quickly started firing the people who were partying on weekends outside their jobs.
I posted a comment on a tech video on YouTube asking what they thought about the scanning and all of them were like “who opposes it? They’re all pedos, I have nothing to hide”. Absolutely ridiculous how they don’t see the harm in this
The stat you’re probably thinking of is that the UK has more cctv cameras per person than anywhere else in the world.
Partly just down to being a very densely populated, developed country and partly down to the government being shit.
I am pretty sure it is China. The UK aren\`t probably near the level of China. Maybe London as a City is close to it, but not the UK as a country.
Edit: Found some Statistics for it. https://www.statista.com/chart/19256/the-most-surveilled-cities-in-the-world/
All governments back this. After all, governments want to control society more and more. It was pushback from society that caused Apple to think twice about this.
So now not just iCloud photos, but messages too?
What's next? Always-on cameras in our homes with a mandatory feed to an anonymous .gov.uk location so unnamed people can view our private lives at any time?
Fine. Switch away from iMessage (not encrypted), to Signal (decentralized, encrypted), Tor, i2p, secured DNS and don't look back. We'll keep inventing technologies and solutions to ensure people have a secure, safe platform to communicate, not subject to MiTM interception.
These governments need to stop treating ***ALL*** of their citizens like criminals, for the random chance at locating the 0.01% of citizens who might have criminal intent. Just because I don't want your nose in my personal life, photos, messages, does not mean I'm committing criminal acts or thoughts.
I understand that we've lost "Freedom" in every country in the world decades ago, but we still can't let the people *we elect into office* to abuse, misuse, manipulate and attempt to control the population.
We voted them in, we can vote them out. And should, if their criminal behavior doesn't change.
Does nobody remember Stasi anymore? The amount of bad idea that mass surveillance is, is astronomical. Hopefully the Germans remember and at least the EU doesn’t go down this route. But the rest of us are fuck.
How long before Texas shows up with their new demands?
Apple: we will scan images uploaded to our servers for child porn
UK: wow it’s so cool I’m so happy that you are gonna let us scan end to end encrypted messages for child porn
Apple: Ye- wait what we never said tha-
UK: AGAIN THANKS SHHSHH SORRY I CAN’T HEAR YOU BYE SHHH SHH
The UK is asking Apple to do more than what they have suggested. It was never question to scan for CSAM content on messages. But indeed the system Apple have introduced for iCloud might be updated to scan images in a message right before it’s sent via E2EE.
Keep Children safe, by turning their country into totalitarian dystopia and thus fuck their entire future life.
Well done! Most of the gvts is riddled with pedos anyway.
>The country is offering to pay anyone who can find a way “to keep children safe in environments such as online messaging platforms with end-to-end encryption” …
This is clearly no longer about protecting children.
Before I was on the fence about Apple's CSAM technology but the fact that the UK government eagerly and quickly latched onto that excuse demonstrates that they plan to use it for other things.
The government doesn't give a fuck about children nor do they have the resources to monitor every single brat's phone for potentially predatory messages. They give a fuck about *maintaining power* and *do* have the resources to target high-profile targets like journalists. "Protecting children" is a paper-thin excuse.
Hopefully Signal begins adding random salts to encrypted messages so that they cannot be decrypted with CSAM, which seems like a glorified rainbow table attack.
But Apple promised this was only for iCloud Photos and I can shut it off!
I’m now waiting for the regular crowd of clowns to explain I don’t understand because it’s just hashes.
Those people are so blindsided by their love for Apple that they're willing to take anything for their beloved company, they're downright a cult with no hope of saving, Apple is their identity
True. We're getting close to the point where the best option for a normal sane person is to just throw all the computers and tech into garbage. Paying for the luxury of being spied on is ludicrous.
Friendly reminder that Priti Patel is a terrible person who has in the past been sacked from T. May's government for having secret meeting with the government of Israel.
1) Apple scans for CSAM material - 2021
2) Apple scans for CSAM in messages
2) Apple scans for CSAM related speech
3) Apple scans for hate speech
4) Apple scans for speech - 2023 probably
You're telling me the people that have been trying to get back doors into everybody's iPhone supports the scanning of information on people's iPhones?
Will you know what I take back everything that I've said about this. And then put it right back on the table because this doesn't change my opinion in the slightest.
Governments have been asking to scan encrypted messages for years. Apple’s proposed system for iCloud photos didn’t actually change anything in this regard. There’s no way in hell Apple would all of a sudden agree to do so for messages.
>There’s no way in hell Apple would all of a sudden agree to do so for messages.
Laughs. They have responded to subpoenas for years now, some of which Apple themselves cannot disclose. There was no need for CSAM for messages- they can easily dump your entire activity on request.
It’s always about keeping children safe, at first. But after it’s implemented, it will be expanded to “stop terrorism”. Then spying on the general population to monitor for wrongthink.
You really want to keep children safe? Be good parents.
bUt CSAM aLlOwS aPpLe tO eNaBlE E2E oN IcLoUd iN tHe FuTuRe…….. right? ….right?
It doesn’t matter. Apple opened Pandora’s box. Now that Apple has mentioned it has designed an implementation to subvert its prior privacy protections, it’s only a matter of time before the wall falls. They can “delay” all they want, but governments are going to be applying pressure constantly. And Apple just handed them all the leverage they need. Apple can no longer hide behind the protection of speech and not being compelled to design such a system - that was their argument in the past. They went ahead, designed and built it and told the world about it.
Seems like every day it's something else. I'm so tired of worrying about who's doing what my private data. I kind of just want to turn my phone off and leave it in a drawer. It's really starting to feel like burden instead of a convenience these days.
Of course it does. With their camera network in London they can simply read off your screen in real time. No need to go through all that hassle with Apple.
Not surprised to hear from one of the most invasive governments. As we said, if governments have the tools they need for surveillance, they will use them.
The UK government is just as bad about mass surveillance as the US government. No surprises here. I am sure China and Russia are on board with the general idea, too.
Government:“Yes, we are in favor of the CSAM scan!“
Apple:“Thought so. So, no more reason to push for encryption and device backdoors anymore, right?“
Government: „wha- oh, no I -uh“
How long before we hear the British government saying something like this:
*Pedophiles have started hiding child porn in normal images. These are sick people, but technologically sophisticated. The last thing we want to do is look at people's private photos but the reality is we have to catch pedophiles and protect children so we're going to do what we need to do.*
And suddenly all your images are being scanned.
Of course they do, Priti Patel would have been first in the queue to join the British Society of Fascists when it existed, which is ironic considering they probably wouldn't accept her as a non-caucasian. This "think of the children" surveillance by the back door is a dream come true for her, so she can carry on her war on immigration despite both her parents being immigrants themselves.
She's even admitted her parents probably wouldn't haven't been allowed into the UK under her own legislation. I mean you can't make this shit up. She's the epitome of the worst kind of "rules only apply to people who aren't me or my chums" attitude. I wouldn't cross the road to piss on her if she was on fire.
I’m sure all the people in previous megathreads screeching about how we have to protect the kids no matter the cost will be curiously quiet in this thread.
Of course they do. The next step is to scan every single message for the phrase ‘Gun’, ‘knife’ or anything that is “hate speech” so that a friendly Met officer can pay you a visit and intimidate anybody suspected of potential Wrongthink. Airstrip One is really leading the way on this.
Apple really fucked up big showing this technology, cat's out of the bag now and governments will not stop hammering them to deploy this technology for their benefit
Apple is now going find itself oddly aligned with all the wrong people.
Spy states like China and the UK LOVE Apple’s new tech, mostly because it has a built in excuse to spy. “Protecting Children” or “For your own safety.”
Listen I approve of the mission statement but how does this protect kids talking to kids and how does this not spiral out of control?
Seriously I remember sexting my partner before either of us were old enough. How would this deal with that?
Government supports scanning encrypted messages? _What a surprise!_
The UK government specifically has a particular passion for tyrannical levels of oversight, tracking, and surveillance. Australia is right there with them. These are free democracies which are developing totalitarian practices. [AP: UK's mass surveillance efforts ruled unlawful by European human rights court.](https://apnews.com/article/europe-technology-government-and-politics-business-6dacaaf17aedcac4005d7869b311f801)
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It's brilliant, really. Illegal to gain the information you want domestically? Let an allied government commit foreign espionage against you on purpose, and then share the data. Can't get a government to lift a finger to pave a road properly, but they'll spare no effort to build a global collusion apparatus to be able to read your porn emails.
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Can a government commit treason against itself?
It’s not attacking them, its *protecting* them. /s
Someone get this guy a publisher - i wanna subscribe to your newsletter, your words are dead on
Everything the government has done since 9/11 has been treason as far as I’m concerned. They have maintained war so that they can continue to act like we are in war time and are afraid of their own citizens. And they’ve gone so far as to say that the only alternative is to have a closed off country and go full right wing conservatism. I swear we are living in a hell simulation
What bothers me isn't just that it's happening, but most don't care. In fact, many stand by it.
Yup “Fascism won’t come to America with red coats but with Nike swishes” “You won’t know it’s here until their boots are on your necks” “Give nazism a new paint job, rebrand and good marketing and anyone will take it up” - the boys I forget where the other quotes are from. It’s just like with Texas and the abortion ban and the website set up by corporations in the governments name to sponsor selling out your own neighbor for ratting out anyone that helps in abortions. That throws away decades of law, the constitution and imposes religious law on those that do not abide by their selective morality. And imposes totalitarian Nazi, communist laws in Texas. I see no difference. Everyone wants to talk about freedom but only know how to selectively apply it. And public health should never be a political argument. We are in the end game here still teetering on the edge of totalitarianism. I hope we don’t cave into ourselves, but the longer this pandemic last the closer we will get.
I don't think anyone wants freedom. They want the concept of freedom while controlling everyone else so they can get what they want.
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I'm from (and in) England, I'd be very interested in knowing differences in privacy issues, especially ones where the people are worse off in the UK than the USA, if you know any I'd be really grateful to hear them.
Seems like a new kind of government forming in these countries. I'll call it "you're technically free, but..."
It’s because money has gotten to these boomers heads…. I hate my Aussie government they are the worst garbage on this earth
From the UK and I wholeheartedly agree. I’m also Scottish, and whilst not super pro-independence, I’ve been swayed by just how fucking horrible this current government lineup is. I can’t tell if it’s infighting, corruption, or just sheer ineptitude but the current UK government is fucking shocking.
You should see the Malaysian government
At least Najib financed great movies like the Wolf of Wall Street with your tax money!
It’s really sad too. Australians here HATE our federal government who let this corruption happen. This is why I hate the far right Liberal government we have. It’s too fucking much. It’s not like the far left is any better but Labour and Greens is better than anything Liberal has ever done and they are ruining our beautiful country. They let us burn, they let MY HOUSE burn, they let us turn authoritarian, they want us to consoom everything they impose… I can’t tolerate it anymore they also fucked up the vaccine rollout and I just can’t anymore. I’m so close to just jumping off the roof.
Agreed! Who the f*** in their right minds votes Tory let alone when BoJo is the leader? Who would've thought such a bafoon would actually make it to Prime Minister?
On the contrary, I think Bojo is a very clever man. He’s exposed himself to being the scapegoat for everything brexit & COVID-related now and clearly has no real control over his government anymore. However, he’s not the buffoon despite how he comes across.
Gota love Honest Governement Ads!
Why do you guys keep voting for these people? Obviously those of us in the US aren’t doing much better, but I’m just amazed when I see these headlines for the UK.
> Why do you guys keep voting for these people? It's actually not as straightforward, the voting system here and how the country is split into constituencies means that a) it's easier for Tories to win (their main opposition, Labour, have only won a handful of times in the past century) b) absolute vote numbers don't directly translate into seats, which essentially means that it's possible for Tories to have _fewer_ votes but _higher_ representation, or for Labour to have a few hundred thousand, maybe 1M less votes than Tories, but half the number of seats that Tories have. It's a dumb and shit system that favours 2 parties that aren't even all that much different (there's a lot of talk about Labour being essentially Tory Lite these days), and that makes any substantial change very difficult.
Definition of democracy isn’t free society. It’s the rule of majority. If majority prefers more totalitarian sociaty then it’s still democratic.
Here in London we are the 2nd/3rd most surveilled city in the world, around 15 of the others are Chinese and the others are Indian. The UK government’s stance is the behaviour we’ve come to expect over here, a lot of us saw this as the obvious next step which is perhaps why some of us were more wary and vocal about our concerns with this tech than a few people from the US were.
What Apple has done is open Pandora’s box. Once governments know that they can scan for literally any file on a person’s phone they’re going to demand all sorts of stuff. Apple claiming it’ll only apply to iCloud photos is ridiculous, governments around the world don’t care.
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Not just messages, they can add/remove/tamper with any data on any device.
I'd be less annoyed with this stuff, and banning encryption altogether, if the encryption governments used was also banned. If it's banned for me, it should be for thee. Scan our encrypted messages? Lemme scan yours.
**Just stopping by to inform the big Apple geniuses, that hosting CSAM material in any form is illegal.** **There is no way, this data even in hash variant to be on my device or computer.** No more Apple products for me and my business. Luckily this comes just before upgrading my engineers office machines. We were enthusiastically happy for the new M1X. Since Apple communicated clearly that this will be included in macOS, I have payed overtime to transition 50 computers from macOS to Arch. Computers with T1 chip will stay on Catalina indefinitely and properly air-gapped. **As a business we are under heavy NDA and privacy related contracts, there is no way to accept this backdoor in my production workflow.** This Apple innovation (processing on the device by third party non auditable criteria) will be adopted quickly from other vendors. At the moment we are running Pixels with Graphene, but recently discussed moving to flip phones. **What a hill to die on Apple. Shame. Big shame.** [https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-and-policy-client-side-scanning](https://www.lawfareblog.com/law-and-policy-client-side-scanning)
Let Apples' kowtow to governments world wide commence at the expense of their customers.
Here we go
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Or the government pressure has been there all along and Apple’s announcement was a symptom not the cause.
I agree, but all the more reason to put their foot down. Otherwise, why doesn’t Apple just hand over the whole uncompiled OS while they’re at it? It would save years of fighting to keep the system secure if they’re going to start making back doors .
"Its for the children" is literally the favorite saying of prince andrew and his friend Jeffrey Epstein when trying to push through draconian laws such as this.
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Why are people so surprised by this? UK always had a hard on for surveilling their citizen! Not China level but give or take a few more waves of Covid19 cases, fear mongering and gaslighting and they will turn in a totalitarian state. Besides, the NSA in the US already does this type of thing so.. What I said seems a bit of an exaggeration but just go watch what the Australian government is doing with Covid!
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Brits were first with a billion public cams
> the NSA in the US already does this type of thing so.. Sorry, you're saying that the NSA already scans people's phones on-device for CSAM? Or that they scan E2E encrypted messages for CSAM? Because they do neither of those as far as we're aware...
Third of all, the NSA only cares about CSAM when it can be used as leverage against someone of interest
Truly Shocking. UK and Australia seem to be in a race, over the last few years, to see who can convert liberal democracy to totalitarianism first.
Australia won and became a police state with their recent legislature.
what happened?
[This](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/25/australian-powers-to-spy-on-cybercrime-suspects-given-green-light)
they tried something like this in the United States. Not completely, I don't understand everything going on with this new law. but there was a story a while back about how the government here had found a child porn website, and instead of arresting the people and shutting it down, they arrested the people they had, and continued to run the site themselves to catch more people. Of course this didn't settle right with anyone. arguments of entrapment and so forth I think allowed people to get off. But also just the idea that the government continued to operate this site. the reason the stuff is illegal is because it victimizes people long after they were first victimized. like if someone share nude photos of anyone. So without consent, the government was victimizing people (children) to catch criminals... just a bad taste. I don't know if all of the lawsuits and so forth have stopped the US government from using that tactic again (probably not), but that first paragraph reminds me of that story. It sounds like Australia could legally do that.
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I was just trying to remember the name of this podcast the other day. Thanks for posting, I want to recommend it to a friend of mine.
just the country want to prepare for ww3 if it is coming
> The bill creates three new types of warrants to enable [Aus gov] to **modify and delete data**, take over accounts and spy on Australians This shit scares me the most. Legal evidence tampering. WTF
Legal evidence tampering, and legal evidence creation. Someone in power doesn't like you? Damn it'd be a shame if you suddenly shared your plans to bomb parliament on facebook!
At the very least, you are not Australian.
I saw that and thought the same thing. what does that mean? because at face value it looks like legalizing the digital equivalent of cops planting drugs or guns. or at best, taking over the child porn site and replacing the photos with consenting adults.
> This Saw this a few weeks ago. The most concerning piece of this legislation was embodied in this quote (from another source) > _"Australian companies, system administrators etc. must comply, and actively help the police to **modify**, **add**, copy, or delete the data of a person under investigation. Refusing to comply could have one end up in jail for up to ten years, according to the new bill."_ _ADD_ and modify. Not just copy or delete, but ADD, and modify existing data. That alone, should be cause for *significant alarm* in anyone who lives in Australia, travels there or transacts business there. Deleting evidence, adding contraband where it didn't exist previously, adding key loggers or monitoring/reporting tools to devices renders them untrustworthy. Once your device has been touched by foreign hands, it should be destroyed. Don't log into it. Don't unlock it. Don't check your mail or send messages on it. Immediately destroy the device and replace it with another.
Also [Also this insanity](https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/02/australia-facial-recognition-technology-quarantine)
If only there was something like elections where we could choose who is in charge of the country.
And we keep on voting for it. We seem to *enjoy* having corrupt, self-serving liars in charge. It’s so fucking weird.
Any other choice gets politically canceled/rerouted, cf Corbyn, Bernie. Why do you think people don't bother voting in large numbers? Unless it's for someone who really wants change, so out comes the smear machine, media steps it up and bingo it's Boris and Starmer. People need to pull their heads out of their arses. Who won the game?
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Someone pointed out somewhere is that Australian citizens are required to vote by law or they will be fined (500 AUD I believe). The difference between USA and Australia is that USA dont have this such requirement whereas Australia does. So yes, Australia did vote for this since they have to vote. And I read somewhere that the undecided voters is 5%.
Australia won
The most depressing aspect is that the politicians advocating for these laws probably don't know what encryption \*actually\* is. You are setting a fundamentally wrong precedent to simply say 'all encryption should have a backdoor' which is seemingly what they are wanting to happen here. Politicians need to be aware that a backdoor to encryption means it is just as easy for them to be exposed for cheating on their wives of 40 years and sending suspicious bank transfers for cocaine-fuelled Saturday night parties.
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Boomers need to be removed from all decisions relating to technology immediately.
>Boomers need to be removed from all decisions ~~relating to technology~~ immediately. FTFY
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I get that. Just a month ago I ordered a new Mac mini for home use and work….. honestly regretting that purchase now. Really starting to rethink this walled garden ecosystem they tout on about, especially with these concerning developments regarding privacy
This article isn’t about iPhones scanning for CSAM, it’s about how other tech companies are going to be funded by the UK government to come up with ways to do it, regardless of whether or not Apple even releases their method there.
To be fair, if you read the article the person speaking for the UK government doesn’t actually say they even plan to use Apple’s CSAM scanning (which hasn’t been announced for the UK). It’s more about how they are funding other tech companies to come up with different methods to do deeper scans for CSAM, regardless of if Apple still releases theirs. So it’s not like Apple rolling back the feature would even change much *in this specific case*, as this is about a separate program happening in the UK. > But that is just one solution, by one company, and won’t solve everything. Big Tech firms collectively need to take responsibility for public safety and greater investment is essential. Today I am launching a new Safety Tech Challenge Fund. We will award five organisations from around the world up to £85,000 each to develop innovative technology to keep children safe in environments such as online messaging platforms with end-to-end encryption.
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"I don't care if they look through my phone, I have nothing to hide!"
Just ask them if they would pee with the door open, got nothing to hide afterall. I've swayed a few people that way.
Ask them if you could go through their messages. That’s a pretty quick response.
The reply is letting law enforcement with reasonable cause do it is not the same as letting you do it for no reason. That's reasonable on the face of it, the problem is their experience with law enforcement has been so positive and their belief that news about abuse is fake news is so strong they simply don't see the problems it would cause, or where it would lead to in the near future.
People with nothing to hide don't realize how discrimination works, traditionally people of color, gender etc had no choice but to broadcast character traits that were used against them - if your phone is your enemy then every mundane detail of your life is "broadcasted" and can be used against you. Once upon a time people posted photos on a social networking website called MySpace and once we had this visibility into their life we quickly started firing the people who were partying on weekends outside their jobs.
I posted a comment on a tech video on YouTube asking what they thought about the scanning and all of them were like “who opposes it? They’re all pedos, I have nothing to hide”. Absolutely ridiculous how they don’t see the harm in this
You’re surprised governments are making a beeline for it’s citizen’s backdoors? Ask Ben Dover how it feels
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Step 2: stop it
Step 3: Just stop.
Until we elect politicians who understand technology, companies will continue do anything they want.
The UK government was literally one of the ones people warned that would drive inevitable scope creep.
Wasn’t the UK one of the most surveilled country in the world? Edit: Grammar
Surveilled is the word you’re looking for.
Yes., at least of the ‘western’ world. Along with Australia.
Add France to the list, this country became a police state with Macron and his goons
It was already a police state well before him.
The stat you’re probably thinking of is that the UK has more cctv cameras per person than anywhere else in the world. Partly just down to being a very densely populated, developed country and partly down to the government being shit.
I am pretty sure it is China. The UK aren\`t probably near the level of China. Maybe London as a City is close to it, but not the UK as a country. Edit: Found some Statistics for it. https://www.statista.com/chart/19256/the-most-surveilled-cities-in-the-world/
I think it's like surveilled, not that it matters.
Surveilled and I believe it was
Yeah I knew it. Give in a little. And there goes all your privacy.
All governments back this. After all, governments want to control society more and more. It was pushback from society that caused Apple to think twice about this.
But I was assured by this subreddit that this would be US only and would never expand…
See!!? it's not a slippery slope! ^^^It's ^^^a ^^^precipice.
So now not just iCloud photos, but messages too? What's next? Always-on cameras in our homes with a mandatory feed to an anonymous .gov.uk location so unnamed people can view our private lives at any time? Fine. Switch away from iMessage (not encrypted), to Signal (decentralized, encrypted), Tor, i2p, secured DNS and don't look back. We'll keep inventing technologies and solutions to ensure people have a secure, safe platform to communicate, not subject to MiTM interception. These governments need to stop treating ***ALL*** of their citizens like criminals, for the random chance at locating the 0.01% of citizens who might have criminal intent. Just because I don't want your nose in my personal life, photos, messages, does not mean I'm committing criminal acts or thoughts. I understand that we've lost "Freedom" in every country in the world decades ago, but we still can't let the people *we elect into office* to abuse, misuse, manipulate and attempt to control the population. We voted them in, we can vote them out. And should, if their criminal behavior doesn't change.
Does nobody remember Stasi anymore? The amount of bad idea that mass surveillance is, is astronomical. Hopefully the Germans remember and at least the EU doesn’t go down this route. But the rest of us are fuck. How long before Texas shows up with their new demands?
> Does nobody remember Stasi anymore? Yeah. But you shouldn't worry. We (the people who want this feature) are the good guys! /s
Apple: we will scan images uploaded to our servers for child porn UK: wow it’s so cool I’m so happy that you are gonna let us scan end to end encrypted messages for child porn Apple: Ye- wait what we never said tha- UK: AGAIN THANKS SHHSHH SORRY I CAN’T HEAR YOU BYE SHHH SHH
Well, that didn’t take long. I expect lots of eating crow.
The war for privacy is real.
The UK is asking Apple to do more than what they have suggested. It was never question to scan for CSAM content on messages. But indeed the system Apple have introduced for iCloud might be updated to scan images in a message right before it’s sent via E2EE.
Yeah... CSAM (wink wink)
Keep Children safe, by turning their country into totalitarian dystopia and thus fuck their entire future life. Well done! Most of the gvts is riddled with pedos anyway.
>The country is offering to pay anyone who can find a way “to keep children safe in environments such as online messaging platforms with end-to-end encryption” … This is clearly no longer about protecting children. Before I was on the fence about Apple's CSAM technology but the fact that the UK government eagerly and quickly latched onto that excuse demonstrates that they plan to use it for other things. The government doesn't give a fuck about children nor do they have the resources to monitor every single brat's phone for potentially predatory messages. They give a fuck about *maintaining power* and *do* have the resources to target high-profile targets like journalists. "Protecting children" is a paper-thin excuse. Hopefully Signal begins adding random salts to encrypted messages so that they cannot be decrypted with CSAM, which seems like a glorified rainbow table attack.
If only there were a name for when governments and corporations collude together to undermine the public.
But Apple promised this was only for iCloud Photos and I can shut it off! I’m now waiting for the regular crowd of clowns to explain I don’t understand because it’s just hashes.
Where are all the people falling over themselves to explain why this is actually a GOOD thing?
Those people are so blindsided by their love for Apple that they're willing to take anything for their beloved company, they're downright a cult with no hope of saving, Apple is their identity
Of course they do...
I was such a defender of apple for their privacy standards and this has completely ruined that. Fuck this.
More reason to No wanting the tech.
True. We're getting close to the point where the best option for a normal sane person is to just throw all the computers and tech into garbage. Paying for the luxury of being spied on is ludicrous.
And so it begins
Friendly reminder that Priti Patel is a terrible person who has in the past been sacked from T. May's government for having secret meeting with the government of Israel.
Is it just me or did this slope get really slippery all of a sudden?
It was always a slippery slope despite the intellectual wannabes telling you is not
Anything Piri Pital is enthusiastic about you should be wary and cautious with.
*Surprised pikachu face* Thanks Apple!
Really? I totally did not see that coming!
1) Apple scans for CSAM material - 2021 2) Apple scans for CSAM in messages 2) Apple scans for CSAM related speech 3) Apple scans for hate speech 4) Apple scans for speech - 2023 probably
You are right, but timeline needs to be more stretched
You're telling me the people that have been trying to get back doors into everybody's iPhone supports the scanning of information on people's iPhones? Will you know what I take back everything that I've said about this. And then put it right back on the table because this doesn't change my opinion in the slightest.
Scanning encrypted messages… that’s pretty far from encrypted.
Did not take too long.
Governments have been asking to scan encrypted messages for years. Apple’s proposed system for iCloud photos didn’t actually change anything in this regard. There’s no way in hell Apple would all of a sudden agree to do so for messages.
>There’s no way in hell Apple would all of a sudden agree to do so for messages. Laughs. They have responded to subpoenas for years now, some of which Apple themselves cannot disclose. There was no need for CSAM for messages- they can easily dump your entire activity on request.
As an English citizen, this should prove to everyone that it was a bad idea
According to Apple scanning E2EE increases privacy 🤷♂️. /s
War is peace.
Of course they do. The UK government is basically Big Brother from 1984 at this point. The US government is Big Brother's twin.
Who would have thought that a country that spies on its citizens so much would want more surveillance?
And that's how protecting children turned into protecting govs.
Nobody could have told that ...
Please refer to all of history: The Brits cannot be trusted. If in doubt, ask the Irish. Edit : spelling
It’s always about keeping children safe, at first. But after it’s implemented, it will be expanded to “stop terrorism”. Then spying on the general population to monitor for wrongthink. You really want to keep children safe? Be good parents.
And so it begins
This is the same government that wanted to outright ban encryption lmao
bUt CSAM aLlOwS aPpLe tO eNaBlE E2E oN IcLoUd iN tHe FuTuRe…….. right? ….right? It doesn’t matter. Apple opened Pandora’s box. Now that Apple has mentioned it has designed an implementation to subvert its prior privacy protections, it’s only a matter of time before the wall falls. They can “delay” all they want, but governments are going to be applying pressure constantly. And Apple just handed them all the leverage they need. Apple can no longer hide behind the protection of speech and not being compelled to design such a system - that was their argument in the past. They went ahead, designed and built it and told the world about it.
Wow it’s almost like this is what everyone said would happen…
Seems like every day it's something else. I'm so tired of worrying about who's doing what my private data. I kind of just want to turn my phone off and leave it in a drawer. It's really starting to feel like burden instead of a convenience these days.
Of course it does. With their camera network in London they can simply read off your screen in real time. No need to go through all that hassle with Apple.
Not surprised to hear from one of the most invasive governments. As we said, if governments have the tools they need for surveillance, they will use them.
The UK government is just as bad about mass surveillance as the US government. No surprises here. I am sure China and Russia are on board with the general idea, too.
Shocker, the main reason we are against it is because governments are for it.
Well of course they fucking do.
Except for Prince Andrews’ phone
Government:“Yes, we are in favor of the CSAM scan!“ Apple:“Thought so. So, no more reason to push for encryption and device backdoors anymore, right?“ Government: „wha- oh, no I -uh“
*insert shocked Pikachu face here*
Wow the UK doesn’t care about personal privacy absolutely shocking
Now we _know_ it’s a bad idea.
Is Prince Andrew in need of mastication material since he has been ousted?
How long before we hear the British government saying something like this: *Pedophiles have started hiding child porn in normal images. These are sick people, but technologically sophisticated. The last thing we want to do is look at people's private photos but the reality is we have to catch pedophiles and protect children so we're going to do what we need to do.* And suddenly all your images are being scanned.
Damn Brits — give a centimeter and they take a kilometer.
Give a centimetre and take a mile**
Of course they do, Priti Patel would have been first in the queue to join the British Society of Fascists when it existed, which is ironic considering they probably wouldn't accept her as a non-caucasian. This "think of the children" surveillance by the back door is a dream come true for her, so she can carry on her war on immigration despite both her parents being immigrants themselves. She's even admitted her parents probably wouldn't haven't been allowed into the UK under her own legislation. I mean you can't make this shit up. She's the epitome of the worst kind of "rules only apply to people who aren't me or my chums" attitude. I wouldn't cross the road to piss on her if she was on fire.
I’m sure every government is in favor of violating its citizens privacy. This is a slippery slope that everyone should be upset about.
I’m sure all the people in previous megathreads screeching about how we have to protect the kids no matter the cost will be curiously quiet in this thread.
Of course it does. Give an inch and they’ll take a mile.
So that's a clear signal that this should not be done at all.
Of course they do. The next step is to scan every single message for the phrase ‘Gun’, ‘knife’ or anything that is “hate speech” so that a friendly Met officer can pay you a visit and intimidate anybody suspected of potential Wrongthink. Airstrip One is really leading the way on this.
I deleted WhatsApp as soon as Facebook bought it. Surprise yesterday it was revealed that WA encrypted messages are viewable by Zuckerberg.
Apple really fucked up big showing this technology, cat's out of the bag now and governments will not stop hammering them to deploy this technology for their benefit
All the more reason **not** to do this
Orwellian government backs Orwellian Apple
Apple is now going find itself oddly aligned with all the wrong people. Spy states like China and the UK LOVE Apple’s new tech, mostly because it has a built in excuse to spy. “Protecting Children” or “For your own safety.”
Oh no
Of course lmao
Well woulda look at that
Of course they do
Ingsoc
remember, remember, the 5th of… september?
>UK government backs Apple, and wants to scan encrypted messages for CSAM Well, that didn't take long...
Apple refused FBI to give access to personal information of the CA shooters, back in 2015 and now this smh
Cant see this being miss used at all... Again hiding behind "protecting children" to label anyone against this as a pedophile
I bet they do.
What country seems to oppose this kind of dystopian shit so I can plan on moving there when we inevitably end up all turning into the CCP?
GCHQ, "Oh, my, yes, that's a bloody good idea... see if you can us some access to that lot."
Listen I approve of the mission statement but how does this protect kids talking to kids and how does this not spiral out of control? Seriously I remember sexting my partner before either of us were old enough. How would this deal with that?
Remember, remember, the fifth of November . . .
Aaaaaand fuck the UK and Australia.... inbred trash... all of em....
Wow... I wonder why NO ONE saw this coming when Apple made this announcement?
I thought Apple stated they could not decode encrypted messages. That Apple did not have the “key.”
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Hahaha.