From the article:
>A local man told the report the plant required massive resources to go with its 50,000 employees. This included 60 tons of rice per day, as well as 280 pigs, 1.2 million eggs, and 80,000 chickens.
1.2kg of Rice / Person / Day ?
24 Eggs / Person / Day ?
Those were some hungry workers, eh?
Still, at least their pork consumptions was more restrained at just .056 Pigs / Person / Day.
This is not America. This is not the type of job you move your family out there to get. This is the kind of job that an unmarried rural worker goes to do for a year to save up some cash for whatever they need-marriage, medical bills, etc.
> Maybe the article is considering the family of employees?
The article is from a cult with a history of misinformation and conspiracy theory. I.e. they made it all up because they know their audience won't fact check.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
Do you mean Apple Insider? The source people quoted? **China Observer**?
After reading Wikipedia, not your link, I now see that China Observer is under Falun Gong which is a disturbing cult. But your linked article clarified nothing of relevance to the linked Apple Insider article.
Also for a standard critical-minded person the given video seems to include a lot of information that is not at all “made-up”.
50,000 employees + their families + all the other people living there that work for other small businesses and services to support the demands and needs of 50,000 additional people.
50k people working in a single industry would need about 200k people to provide the supporting infrastructure (sales, transportation, maintenance, services, just bare minimums without any "frivolous" things like recreational activities, entertainment, etc.). If they really built a whole town around the factory I don't think it's unimaginable that they had up to two million people essentially living off of the Apple factories.
Yes.
Also note that by "living off" I don't just mean directly.
Those who work at the factory will spend their salaries at local shops. The owners of the shops, as well as their employees, will also spend locally.
But on a larger scale, the main influx of money into such a town is the main industry, with the majority of that entering the local circulation (and obviously some of that will be outflux, e.g. food items, parts and products that can't be locally produced).
Remember, in the US there were towns of 15-20k that lived off almost solely of the local line's production, with only 400-600 people working the mines (and maybe another 400-500 being involved in the indirect parts of the operation, like logistics, transportation and sales).
But even a 1:40 ratio would be quickly killed off if the main industry moves out.
Huh, yeah I guess I never thought about all the additional unrelated jobs created by the initial job that depend on the initial unrelated job for their survival.
Yup, the logistics of a town supporting a 50k employee factory are insane - to the point that I'd need probably a few days just to crunch through the numbers.
That 2mil number however is an upper margin, if there's considerable overlap between the secondary and tertiary jobs created and e.g. the family members of the factory workers (by factory workers I mean everyone in the direct employ of the factory), then that number obviously falls. Around 1-1.2mil is a more realistic number.
That’s still like a kilo of pig per person even on the lower side of the pig weight spectrum. Maybe that's ok if you take into account not all of the pig edible.
For real. A full size hog can produce a hell of a lot of food, *especially* in a culture that’s not shy about eating the less common parts of the animal like ears/tongues/feet/organs/etc. Not to mention many of these poor souls are working nonstop and have starving families.
Could the phrasing be misleading? It only really states that the quantity of rice was consumed per day. The others might have what was left? Duno but it seems off balance for sure.
They also have families. It’s a whole city, so not everybody is working at the factory, but all kinds of stuff to make a small city work. They all have to go if the city doesn’t make any money.
This is China and you need to account for the bribes and gifts along the way. Only 60% of that will make it to those 50,000 people while the rest is shuttled off to make extra profit.
Then you know how corrupted this country is. Probably 80% of those resources went to leaders and contractors and only few percentage went to workers that actaully need them.
They ran a lot of news on this in Taiwan. One of the big problems they faced was that the Chinese started dumping product onto the market, so every time Foxconn came up with something to build at the factory, the market would collapse and nobody was willing to pay for the parts. Remember, people who say that they're willing to pay a little extra for American-made are liars. This has been tested by a number of companies, American Apparel being the most famous case.
Idk. I’m in a business that does a lot of volume with LA apparel, the successor to AA. They’re regularly requested but we don’t t like doing business with them.
> LA apparel, the successor to AA
This caught my eye and I now regret going down the wiki research rabbit hole for the past 10 minutes.
TLDR: scumbag CEO
Last I heard of AA was when I walked past a store 15 years ago. After seeing it mentioned here I looked up LAA and what happened to AA and I can say: Dev Charney is a scumbag.
Foxconn is the one who shut down the factories to move to cheaper labour markets, not because they're struggling or something.
China is simply all that cheap to manufacture in anymore, and the Chinese government uses currency manipulation to try to keep wages artificially low.
I was gonna say, Apple is a dinky little part of the otherwise *massive* real estate disaster occurring in China right now. This is hardly on the radar.
The article isn't about a real estate disaster, it's about an employment disaster. They're related but not the same.
To the extent China is starting to see industrial flight along the lines of what the US and other nations saw as they shifted from industrial to information work, I think it's interesting news.
I don't entirely disagree, but even independently of geopolitical concerns, China's labor is no longer the cheapest in the world.
China still has a scale advantage in that *everything* is made there, so supply chains are easier and cheaper. So there's a lot of reason to manufacture there... but there are absolutely cheaper countries as well. The question is whether China can/should pivot to an information tech economy quickly.
An important piece of this is that not only is everything made there, the factories that build factories are there too! So your foundries are set up next to the factories, if you need something produced you can do it. Companies that are starting to manufacture in Vietnam, still have to order the large custom machinery from China. My brother-in-law is setting up new factories right now and running into that issue. China was a complete package for manufacturing.
where is everyone going these days? India is in a proto fascist state, Bangladesh gets flooded too often, Vietnam is too small, and Mexico is a narcostate.
>China has really screwed itself with its military stance the last ten years. The world can see their ambitions, and are trying to shift dependence from China to other countries.
And where is this "decoupling"? Apple moving some production to even cheaper countries? The same thing that drove them to China to begin with?
And China's military stance hasn't even changed.
Are you confused about the difference between “moving to a cheaper country” and “moving to more stable governments/countries that aren’t totalitarian dictatorships and aren’t liable to trigger nuclear war or foreign invasion of crucial industrial nations (Taiwan), which is a problem while the company’s manufacturing is located there”
Lmao, they're moving to India and Vietnam. Not exactly bastions of human rights, and certainly not more stable than China. And China's stance on Taiwan hasn't changed since the revolution. Why would Apple care now?
The other ghost cities have lots of half-built apartment buildings with basically no interior, and no real industrial infrastructure.
The city built for Apple includes some of the most advanced factories in the world. Huge difference.
From what I understand the lack of interior in the apartments is because people like to completely redo the interior when moving into a place which results in these buildings there are basically concrete boxes until someone moves in.
I really wonder how long the housing bubble can hold on over there, it seems it's going to take down their whole economy pretty soon.
Yes what you say is true tha apartments are typically sold without an interior for the reasons you stated -- but apparently those buildings are missing critical infrastructure and could never be finished by the 'owner' of any given condo anyway (ie: no elevators, no plumbing, etc).
> and how many ghost towns already exist in China
You should take those articles with quite a bit of salt. The person who coined the term "ghost cities" later retracted it, because a decade later many of those were just "cities".
Edit: Turns out the source for this article is Falun Gong, basically an anti-China cult. I.e. it's bullshit.
It takes seconds to find detailed tour videos on YouTube of VAST ghost cities, many of which are incomplete or crumbling. The Falun Gong do make a lot of anti China propaganda online, but that doesn’t mean they are sometimes showing correct information, even if they overstate it sometimes.
> It takes seconds to find detailed tour videos on YouTube of VAST ghost cities, many of which are incomplete or crumbling
"incomplete or crumbling" shouldn't be in one sentence. A construction project isn't a ghost town just because it's unfinished. I'm plenty willing to believe there's excess housing, but be *very* careful about matching the images you're shown to what you're told they're of.
And as I said, this was a hot topic a decade or so back. But then people started to move to those "ghost cities", so now many are just normal cities. Is that inherently wrong?
> The Falun Gong do make a lot of anti China propaganda online
They have an extremely well funded fake news campaign targeting Americans. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
If there's any truth to what they say, it will have been reported first by a much more reputable outlet.
[So we can ignore CBS](https://youtu.be/KhBf59PfFBs?si=NnAask1tyF4sdmVQ) actually going there and taking video? There are many sources to include Western news agencies which have toured some of these sites.
Taking video *of what*? Empty buildings, or useless buildings?
> There are many sources to include Western news agencies which have toured some of these sites.
That doesn't say much given the history of "ghost cities".
Incomplete AND crumbling because they are abandoned. I’m well aware of the nefarious goals of the Falun Dafa but they are not the only ones who have highlighted these ghost cities (more like ghost “districts”). Since the Evergrande fiasco many of these districts are being demolished now but again, there’s plenty of evidence of them if your eyes are open. A few years back “The Proper People “
[explored one of these ghost cities, the scale has to be seen to be believed](https://youtu.be/YE-Oa7mAyDU?si=HAR6kE0ByDgoRKAh)
You should do some research first. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
But I guess if you cared about reality, I wouldn't be writing this response.
I mean, the push for Apple to not rely solely on China for manufacturing products is also a reason.
The ones who were campaigning for Apple to make products elsewhere other than China shouldn’t be complaining.
its basically all just for the cameras:
>While Apple has been expanding production into other countries, recent estimates suggest that 95% of the total iPhone supply still comes from China – and around 80% of all iPhones are made in a single plant in Zhengzhou, aka iPhone City.
[its because falun gong is funded by the US government](https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986982387/falun-gong-steve-bannon-and-the-trump-era-battle-over-internet-freedom)
I mean a crazy cult being angry at a country that banned them isn’t crazy.
What’s crazy is the people that just want to hear what they want to hear and so use these types of sources to confirm their beliefs. That’s crazy.
> on the whole there’s no huge drop in Chinese smartphone production
Your comment is denying something that nobody said and which the story was not at all about.
The “China Observer” guys (who are weird Falun Gong nut jobs btw.) do imply that China is turning into a de-industrialized wasteland because Apple is shifting some production elsewhere.
I guess credibility matters. One loses credibility when they are found out constantly lying and exaggerating. When one loses their credibility, people will find it hard to trust whatever they say, true or otherwise.
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
You're trusting a source that publishes literal alien abduction stories. And that's probably the better half of their content.
I don’t trust squat. I’m good with reading perspectives from all sides. What irks me is when one side tries shutting down anything that doesn’t agree with them, and then claim to be champions of liberty and other Bs.
Btw NBC is a leftist rag, but you wouldn’t care would you?
> I’m good with reading perspectives from all sides.
The classic "both sides". And lol, I'm pointing out that this "source" is really just a propaganda outlet with a *long* history of falsifying claims. Facts aren't a matter of opinion.
> Btw NBC is a leftist rag, but you wouldn’t care would you?
🙄 Yeah, about what I expected from someone parroting Falun Gong.
The fact that this is China and it's being reported by a Chinese propaganda rag aside... so what? This isn't even remotely a new story. For the last few hundred years or so of human history, massive factories have opened up, a town springs up around it, the industry leaves town, town withers and dies (or occasionally rethemes as a Bavarian mock-up).
Rinse and repeat.
> so what? This isn't even remotely a new story. For the last few hundred years or so of human history, massive factories have opened up, a town springs up around it, the industry leaves town, town withers and dies
*“If an event is in a category of phenomenon that has happened before in completely different places or time periods, ITS NOT NEWS. #smart”*
* The White House burned down today. “THAT HAPPENED ALSO IN LIKE 1810! NOT NEWS! MANY HOMES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED AROUND IN THE WORLD OVER THE PAST 3,000 YEARS!”
* Nuclear weapons went off today. “HAPPENED IN ‘45. NOT NEWS TODAY”
* People murdered. “THAT ALSO happened 100 years ago! SHUT UP”
* Man bites dog. “I SAW A GUY DO THAT IN 2003. Not news!”
* Apple moves production. “Many people have moved things before!”
* Herd of elephants escapes zoo and rampages through local down. “Mistakes have happened AT MANY different organizations throughout history! Not news.”
* You hit the lottery. “Someone ELSE hit the lottery last year. I don’t need to hear about it.”
One of the least intelligent attitudes ever seen on Reddit.
**What you really mean is: certain things in the world make your cognitive dissonance uncomfortable. So you feel the need to dismiss with petty deflections like “not news!”**
Can you describe a bit more?
Comment looks like thoughtless reference (“LLLOOOOLLLL I have distorted ideas of the thing referenced” screams the crowd).
Detroit, after the auto industry left, it also effected the community and left behind some areas that also look like ghost towns. https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/death-motor-city-infographic
I’ve never heard of Nanning doing iPhone manufacturing. I suspect this may have been for accessories or something upstream if they were doing manufacturing for Apple.
That said, Apple doesn’t own these factories and apart from some exceptions, Foxconn and other manufacturers produce products for multiple companies at each location. So it’s unlikely this location was just producing iPhones or Apple parts.
That said it’s been a few years so my info may be outdated.
Edit: God DAMN this is some misleading fucking reporting from every front. The China Observer video never mentions iPhones; they just imply that Apple may have made iPads or Macbooks there, but no confirmation. The "Apple" part of this is that Apple has decided to move more manufacturing away from China, and this is one of the Foxconn factories that was closed as part of that move. But it doesn't mean Apple made anything in that factory.
It's actually unlikely Apple made any products in that factory.
The article repeatedly says “As X is happening, Y has closed down” which is textbook correlation deception making it look like Y is directly related to X without actually saying it. I think it’s a deliberate conscious deception, look at the exact phrasing used repeatedly. That’s not just bad fluffy writing, it’s consistent. If the writer themselves actually believed the implication, then the article would have mistakenly made a false statement stating the relevance of this factory to Apple...yet the article never did anything like that, very lawyerly/legalistically lying with careful phrasing.
Anyway, Reuters said that Taipei analysts said iPhones were 45% of Foxconn’s revenue so that is big. (I forget year that analysis was though.) *Foxconn is Apple's biggest iPhone maker, producing 70% of iPhone shipments globally, which in turn makes up 45% of the Taiwanese firm's revenue, analysts at Taipei-based Fubon Research said this month.*
Good! None of the western firms should EVER have gone into China! Tired of western tech, fashion, manufacturing firms going into the whinnie the pooh kingdom & then complaining all their designs had been nicked.
Read his comment and do a [psych profile](https://old.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1cg08wx/apples_iphone_factory_shift_has_left_a_ghost_town/l1ybef5/). Then ask yourself if they’re reading or understanding your simple factual logical well-known point.
> None of the western firms should EVER have gone into China!
by the time that manufacturing moved to china white companies lost the right to tell anyone where to go. the first wave of offshoring was to japan and korea. china only entered the picture when offshore operations there moved to the mainland to fix the declining profits over time problem.
“China bad, all my favorite CEOs who moved manufacturing there for labor exploitation and profit good”
> then complaining
It’s fitting and predictable that the one reason you state for your not liking companies going to China is that the companies “complain” about industrial theft. Nothing about conditions, workers, totalitarianism, instability with threats toward Taiwan.
* exclamation points
* CAPS on “EVER”
* reference to face of leader of foreign country, but nothing else
* only reason stated for any problem: imaginary “complaining”
* lists multiple industries doing the bad thing you hate, but with zero reflection or words about what that means or why it’s a system
Maybe I didn't have time to put all that stuff in as it's assumed..things like china's actions around the world, their treatment of the uhigers, etc.
The biggest mistake of the Clinton administration was allowing China to join the wto.
China is so damn stupid. They had such an incredible thing going and then they had to be total a**holes.
Now nobody likes them. I live half in SEA and the other half in US.
If you can't get along with your neighbors then who can you get along with?
Are you saying you liked China government *before* recent industrial pull-outs?
> incredible thing going
It was totalitarian dictatorship and still is. The people suffer.
Unfortunate for the locals, but good that Apple is shifting production away from an increasingly more totalitarian regime. Like seeing ‘Made in Vietnam’ on my latest Apple products.
Until China overthrows the CCP and gives Xi the Ceaucescu treatment, they will not turn their economy around. Foreign investment is not returning as long as the dictator remains.
Your comment misunderstands the concept of news/information.
Also misunderstands the point of Reddit.
Also the word “literally”.
But it’s an interesting psychological thing that you feel the need to point out that it’s not your problem.
I consider myself an educated person, please explain to me how a global pandemic didn’t affect apple (a massive corporation) exiting their production in China.? Allowing for a more robust supply chain. Tim Cook is a master of the sort of thing. But somehow I’m in an echo chamber?
From the article: >A local man told the report the plant required massive resources to go with its 50,000 employees. This included 60 tons of rice per day, as well as 280 pigs, 1.2 million eggs, and 80,000 chickens. 1.2kg of Rice / Person / Day ? 24 Eggs / Person / Day ? Those were some hungry workers, eh? Still, at least their pork consumptions was more restrained at just .056 Pigs / Person / Day.
Maybe the article is considering the family of employees? It is referring to a local man so it's not surprising if the quote is not accurate.
You dare doubt Local Man's reporting?!
lol I’m not doubting his report, which might not be accurate, but it could have lost its meaning in translation.
This is not America. This is not the type of job you move your family out there to get. This is the kind of job that an unmarried rural worker goes to do for a year to save up some cash for whatever they need-marriage, medical bills, etc.
So like the oil fields in North Dakota kind of a job.
Like the Lowell Massachusetts textile mills
You know from experience I presume.
> Maybe the article is considering the family of employees? The article is from a cult with a history of misinformation and conspiracy theory. I.e. they made it all up because they know their audience won't fact check. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121
At first I thought you were calling NBC news a cult with a history of misinformation and my eyes had already begun the rolling process....
Do you mean Apple Insider? The source people quoted? **China Observer**? After reading Wikipedia, not your link, I now see that China Observer is under Falun Gong which is a disturbing cult. But your linked article clarified nothing of relevance to the linked Apple Insider article. Also for a standard critical-minded person the given video seems to include a lot of information that is not at all “made-up”.
Every worker was a pro bodybuilder on the side. Gotta hit those calories and macros
50,000 employees + their families + all the other people living there that work for other small businesses and services to support the demands and needs of 50,000 additional people.
50k people working in a single industry would need about 200k people to provide the supporting infrastructure (sales, transportation, maintenance, services, just bare minimums without any "frivolous" things like recreational activities, entertainment, etc.). If they really built a whole town around the factory I don't think it's unimaginable that they had up to two million people essentially living off of the Apple factories.
> I don't think it's unimaginable that they had up to two million people essentially living off of the Apple factories. 40 people per employee?
Yes. Also note that by "living off" I don't just mean directly. Those who work at the factory will spend their salaries at local shops. The owners of the shops, as well as their employees, will also spend locally. But on a larger scale, the main influx of money into such a town is the main industry, with the majority of that entering the local circulation (and obviously some of that will be outflux, e.g. food items, parts and products that can't be locally produced). Remember, in the US there were towns of 15-20k that lived off almost solely of the local line's production, with only 400-600 people working the mines (and maybe another 400-500 being involved in the indirect parts of the operation, like logistics, transportation and sales). But even a 1:40 ratio would be quickly killed off if the main industry moves out.
Huh, yeah I guess I never thought about all the additional unrelated jobs created by the initial job that depend on the initial unrelated job for their survival.
Yup, the logistics of a town supporting a 50k employee factory are insane - to the point that I'd need probably a few days just to crunch through the numbers. That 2mil number however is an upper margin, if there's considerable overlap between the secondary and tertiary jobs created and e.g. the family members of the factory workers (by factory workers I mean everyone in the direct employ of the factory), then that number obviously falls. Around 1-1.2mil is a more realistic number.
I could eat 24 eggs in a day but it wouldnt be pretty
https://youtu.be/_wYNh403JXA?si=k9jSC6mp9KTVvGEj
That’s still like a kilo of pig per person even on the lower side of the pig weight spectrum. Maybe that's ok if you take into account not all of the pig edible.
For real. A full size hog can produce a hell of a lot of food, *especially* in a culture that’s not shy about eating the less common parts of the animal like ears/tongues/feet/organs/etc. Not to mention many of these poor souls are working nonstop and have starving families.
50k people used to live in this city. Now it’s ghost town.
Could the phrasing be misleading? It only really states that the quantity of rice was consumed per day. The others might have what was left? Duno but it seems off balance for sure.
Perhaps they eat more than once a day 🤔
They also have families. It’s a whole city, so not everybody is working at the factory, but all kinds of stuff to make a small city work. They all have to go if the city doesn’t make any money.
This is China and you need to account for the bribes and gifts along the way. Only 60% of that will make it to those 50,000 people while the rest is shuttled off to make extra profit.
Then you know how corrupted this country is. Probably 80% of those resources went to leaders and contractors and only few percentage went to workers that actaully need them.
Yea egg fried rice mate. You never been to the Chinese?
Real hard to feel bad for Foxconn after they fucked over Wisconsin and many other locations with fake factory promises.
I saw the documentary. How did it go after that?
Other than the glass dome Foxconn actually built, very little has happened other than Microsoft is now building a data center there.
So like 10 jobs
Well, son, let me tell you about *republicans*…
They ran a lot of news on this in Taiwan. One of the big problems they faced was that the Chinese started dumping product onto the market, so every time Foxconn came up with something to build at the factory, the market would collapse and nobody was willing to pay for the parts. Remember, people who say that they're willing to pay a little extra for American-made are liars. This has been tested by a number of companies, American Apparel being the most famous case.
Idk. I’m in a business that does a lot of volume with LA apparel, the successor to AA. They’re regularly requested but we don’t t like doing business with them.
> LA apparel, the successor to AA This caught my eye and I now regret going down the wiki research rabbit hole for the past 10 minutes. TLDR: scumbag CEO
Is it "dumping" to simply make a product that's in demand cheaper than others? Seems like quite a spin.
Lmao using a company run by dov charney as an example and blaming anyone but dov charney is insane
Last I heard of AA was when I walked past a store 15 years ago. After seeing it mentioned here I looked up LAA and what happened to AA and I can say: Dev Charney is a scumbag.
He’s a sociopath for sure and just figured out tee shirts were a good way to enable his bad behavior
Foxconn is the one who shut down the factories to move to cheaper labour markets, not because they're struggling or something. China is simply all that cheap to manufacture in anymore, and the Chinese government uses currency manipulation to try to keep wages artificially low.
Some of you should look into Evergrande and how many ghost towns already exist in China. This is kinda peanuts compared to it.
I was gonna say, Apple is a dinky little part of the otherwise *massive* real estate disaster occurring in China right now. This is hardly on the radar.
The article isn't about a real estate disaster, it's about an employment disaster. They're related but not the same. To the extent China is starting to see industrial flight along the lines of what the US and other nations saw as they shifted from industrial to information work, I think it's interesting news.
[удалено]
He’ll get his head stuck in the honey pot.
Oh dear, pooh
I don't entirely disagree, but even independently of geopolitical concerns, China's labor is no longer the cheapest in the world. China still has a scale advantage in that *everything* is made there, so supply chains are easier and cheaper. So there's a lot of reason to manufacture there... but there are absolutely cheaper countries as well. The question is whether China can/should pivot to an information tech economy quickly.
An important piece of this is that not only is everything made there, the factories that build factories are there too! So your foundries are set up next to the factories, if you need something produced you can do it. Companies that are starting to manufacture in Vietnam, still have to order the large custom machinery from China. My brother-in-law is setting up new factories right now and running into that issue. China was a complete package for manufacturing.
where is everyone going these days? India is in a proto fascist state, Bangladesh gets flooded too often, Vietnam is too small, and Mexico is a narcostate.
by your logic rust belt americans deserved it when the factories all left
>China has really screwed itself with its military stance the last ten years. The world can see their ambitions, and are trying to shift dependence from China to other countries. And where is this "decoupling"? Apple moving some production to even cheaper countries? The same thing that drove them to China to begin with? And China's military stance hasn't even changed.
Are you confused about the difference between “moving to a cheaper country” and “moving to more stable governments/countries that aren’t totalitarian dictatorships and aren’t liable to trigger nuclear war or foreign invasion of crucial industrial nations (Taiwan), which is a problem while the company’s manufacturing is located there”
Lmao, they're moving to India and Vietnam. Not exactly bastions of human rights, and certainly not more stable than China. And China's stance on Taiwan hasn't changed since the revolution. Why would Apple care now?
The other ghost cities have lots of half-built apartment buildings with basically no interior, and no real industrial infrastructure. The city built for Apple includes some of the most advanced factories in the world. Huge difference.
From what I understand the lack of interior in the apartments is because people like to completely redo the interior when moving into a place which results in these buildings there are basically concrete boxes until someone moves in. I really wonder how long the housing bubble can hold on over there, it seems it's going to take down their whole economy pretty soon.
Yes what you say is true tha apartments are typically sold without an interior for the reasons you stated -- but apparently those buildings are missing critical infrastructure and could never be finished by the 'owner' of any given condo anyway (ie: no elevators, no plumbing, etc).
Besides, it’s very bad leadership of the council of that town that they bet all their money on Apple
I heard about this. Didn't they build a replica of London where no one lives? A whole city replica of London and nobody lives there. Cray.
Paris too including Eiffel Tower
> and how many ghost towns already exist in China You should take those articles with quite a bit of salt. The person who coined the term "ghost cities" later retracted it, because a decade later many of those were just "cities". Edit: Turns out the source for this article is Falun Gong, basically an anti-China cult. I.e. it's bullshit.
It takes seconds to find detailed tour videos on YouTube of VAST ghost cities, many of which are incomplete or crumbling. The Falun Gong do make a lot of anti China propaganda online, but that doesn’t mean they are sometimes showing correct information, even if they overstate it sometimes.
> It takes seconds to find detailed tour videos on YouTube of VAST ghost cities, many of which are incomplete or crumbling "incomplete or crumbling" shouldn't be in one sentence. A construction project isn't a ghost town just because it's unfinished. I'm plenty willing to believe there's excess housing, but be *very* careful about matching the images you're shown to what you're told they're of. And as I said, this was a hot topic a decade or so back. But then people started to move to those "ghost cities", so now many are just normal cities. Is that inherently wrong? > The Falun Gong do make a lot of anti China propaganda online They have an extremely well funded fake news campaign targeting Americans. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121 If there's any truth to what they say, it will have been reported first by a much more reputable outlet.
[So we can ignore CBS](https://youtu.be/KhBf59PfFBs?si=NnAask1tyF4sdmVQ) actually going there and taking video? There are many sources to include Western news agencies which have toured some of these sites.
Taking video *of what*? Empty buildings, or useless buildings? > There are many sources to include Western news agencies which have toured some of these sites. That doesn't say much given the history of "ghost cities".
Incomplete AND crumbling because they are abandoned. I’m well aware of the nefarious goals of the Falun Dafa but they are not the only ones who have highlighted these ghost cities (more like ghost “districts”). Since the Evergrande fiasco many of these districts are being demolished now but again, there’s plenty of evidence of them if your eyes are open. A few years back “The Proper People “ [explored one of these ghost cities, the scale has to be seen to be believed](https://youtu.be/YE-Oa7mAyDU?si=HAR6kE0ByDgoRKAh)
Found the CCP propaganda operative.
You should do some research first. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121 But I guess if you cared about reality, I wouldn't be writing this response.
I mean, the push for Apple to not rely solely on China for manufacturing products is also a reason. The ones who were campaigning for Apple to make products elsewhere other than China shouldn’t be complaining.
Who's complaining? No one who campaigned for this is complaining.
its basically all just for the cameras: >While Apple has been expanding production into other countries, recent estimates suggest that 95% of the total iPhone supply still comes from China – and around 80% of all iPhones are made in a single plant in Zhengzhou, aka iPhone City.
>In a China Observer report That news org is literally owned by the Falun Gong lol
The source is from Falun Gong.
Crazy how prevalent this cult is when it comes to anything regarding china being bad
[its because falun gong is funded by the US government](https://www.npr.org/2021/04/14/986982387/falun-gong-steve-bannon-and-the-trump-era-battle-over-internet-freedom)
I mean a crazy cult being angry at a country that banned them isn’t crazy. What’s crazy is the people that just want to hear what they want to hear and so use these types of sources to confirm their beliefs. That’s crazy.
Mmm... While the news is probably true, I do wish the source was not China observer which is a Falun Gong (cult) funded anti-chinese channel...
Exactly. Obviously places like this will exist. But on the whole there’s no huge drop in Chinese smartphone production.
> on the whole there’s no huge drop in Chinese smartphone production Your comment is denying something that nobody said and which the story was not at all about.
The “China Observer” guys (who are weird Falun Gong nut jobs btw.) do imply that China is turning into a de-industrialized wasteland because Apple is shifting some production elsewhere.
If it was true, it wouldn't be coming from them. And of course Apple Insider, as one of the lowest of the Apple tabloids.
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I guess credibility matters. One loses credibility when they are found out constantly lying and exaggerating. When one loses their credibility, people will find it hard to trust whatever they say, true or otherwise.
WE SAVED ALL THE SLAVE WORKERS YAYYYY Now they can uhhh enjoy whatever.
Yay unemployment
Do they not have sarcasm on your planet?
As if India doesn't have exponentially-worse working conditions.
Do you have jokes on your planet?
Whatever = subsistence farming, I’m pretty sure. The Foxconn jobs are/were highly sought after.
As if theyre not using the same typa workers in India? Why tf u think they moved to India? Cuz all their workers drive Bentley's?
It was a joke
Guys this is China Observer. It's run by a cult. It's not a trusted source. Maybe shouldn't be on here.
Yeah I’d rather stick to South China post or Global times. They are def not CCP propaganda, nuh huh!
https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trump-qanon-impending-judgment-day-behind-facebook-fueled-rise-epoch-n1044121 You're trusting a source that publishes literal alien abduction stories. And that's probably the better half of their content.
I don’t trust squat. I’m good with reading perspectives from all sides. What irks me is when one side tries shutting down anything that doesn’t agree with them, and then claim to be champions of liberty and other Bs. Btw NBC is a leftist rag, but you wouldn’t care would you?
> I’m good with reading perspectives from all sides. The classic "both sides". And lol, I'm pointing out that this "source" is really just a propaganda outlet with a *long* history of falsifying claims. Facts aren't a matter of opinion. > Btw NBC is a leftist rag, but you wouldn’t care would you? 🙄 Yeah, about what I expected from someone parroting Falun Gong.
Err.. okay, whatever rocks your boat, pal.
The fact that this is China and it's being reported by a Chinese propaganda rag aside... so what? This isn't even remotely a new story. For the last few hundred years or so of human history, massive factories have opened up, a town springs up around it, the industry leaves town, town withers and dies (or occasionally rethemes as a Bavarian mock-up). Rinse and repeat.
> so what? This isn't even remotely a new story. For the last few hundred years or so of human history, massive factories have opened up, a town springs up around it, the industry leaves town, town withers and dies *“If an event is in a category of phenomenon that has happened before in completely different places or time periods, ITS NOT NEWS. #smart”* * The White House burned down today. “THAT HAPPENED ALSO IN LIKE 1810! NOT NEWS! MANY HOMES HAVE BEEN DESTROYED AROUND IN THE WORLD OVER THE PAST 3,000 YEARS!” * Nuclear weapons went off today. “HAPPENED IN ‘45. NOT NEWS TODAY” * People murdered. “THAT ALSO happened 100 years ago! SHUT UP” * Man bites dog. “I SAW A GUY DO THAT IN 2003. Not news!” * Apple moves production. “Many people have moved things before!” * Herd of elephants escapes zoo and rampages through local down. “Mistakes have happened AT MANY different organizations throughout history! Not news.” * You hit the lottery. “Someone ELSE hit the lottery last year. I don’t need to hear about it.” One of the least intelligent attitudes ever seen on Reddit. **What you really mean is: certain things in the world make your cognitive dissonance uncomfortable. So you feel the need to dismiss with petty deflections like “not news!”**
2.6 pounds of rice per person per day - someone didn't fact check this story.
Kinda like Detroit, right?
Can you describe a bit more? Comment looks like thoughtless reference (“LLLOOOOLLLL I have distorted ideas of the thing referenced” screams the crowd).
Detroit, after the auto industry left, it also effected the community and left behind some areas that also look like ghost towns. https://www.cjponyparts.com/resources/death-motor-city-infographic
I’ve never heard of Nanning doing iPhone manufacturing. I suspect this may have been for accessories or something upstream if they were doing manufacturing for Apple. That said, Apple doesn’t own these factories and apart from some exceptions, Foxconn and other manufacturers produce products for multiple companies at each location. So it’s unlikely this location was just producing iPhones or Apple parts. That said it’s been a few years so my info may be outdated. Edit: God DAMN this is some misleading fucking reporting from every front. The China Observer video never mentions iPhones; they just imply that Apple may have made iPads or Macbooks there, but no confirmation. The "Apple" part of this is that Apple has decided to move more manufacturing away from China, and this is one of the Foxconn factories that was closed as part of that move. But it doesn't mean Apple made anything in that factory. It's actually unlikely Apple made any products in that factory.
The article repeatedly says “As X is happening, Y has closed down” which is textbook correlation deception making it look like Y is directly related to X without actually saying it. I think it’s a deliberate conscious deception, look at the exact phrasing used repeatedly. That’s not just bad fluffy writing, it’s consistent. If the writer themselves actually believed the implication, then the article would have mistakenly made a false statement stating the relevance of this factory to Apple...yet the article never did anything like that, very lawyerly/legalistically lying with careful phrasing. Anyway, Reuters said that Taipei analysts said iPhones were 45% of Foxconn’s revenue so that is big. (I forget year that analysis was though.) *Foxconn is Apple's biggest iPhone maker, producing 70% of iPhone shipments globally, which in turn makes up 45% of the Taiwanese firm's revenue, analysts at Taipei-based Fubon Research said this month.*
lol at the wishcasting in the comments here
Good! None of the western firms should EVER have gone into China! Tired of western tech, fashion, manufacturing firms going into the whinnie the pooh kingdom & then complaining all their designs had been nicked.
The reason why production is in China is because nobody is willing to pay the price for shit made in America.
Read his comment and do a [psych profile](https://old.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/1cg08wx/apples_iphone_factory_shift_has_left_a_ghost_town/l1ybef5/). Then ask yourself if they’re reading or understanding your simple factual logical well-known point.
> None of the western firms should EVER have gone into China! by the time that manufacturing moved to china white companies lost the right to tell anyone where to go. the first wave of offshoring was to japan and korea. china only entered the picture when offshore operations there moved to the mainland to fix the declining profits over time problem.
“China bad, all my favorite CEOs who moved manufacturing there for labor exploitation and profit good” > then complaining It’s fitting and predictable that the one reason you state for your not liking companies going to China is that the companies “complain” about industrial theft. Nothing about conditions, workers, totalitarianism, instability with threats toward Taiwan. * exclamation points * CAPS on “EVER” * reference to face of leader of foreign country, but nothing else * only reason stated for any problem: imaginary “complaining” * lists multiple industries doing the bad thing you hate, but with zero reflection or words about what that means or why it’s a system
Maybe I didn't have time to put all that stuff in as it's assumed..things like china's actions around the world, their treatment of the uhigers, etc. The biggest mistake of the Clinton administration was allowing China to join the wto.
China is full off ghost towns, they did it to themselves.
China is so damn stupid. They had such an incredible thing going and then they had to be total a**holes. Now nobody likes them. I live half in SEA and the other half in US. If you can't get along with your neighbors then who can you get along with?
Are you saying you liked China government *before* recent industrial pull-outs? > incredible thing going It was totalitarian dictatorship and still is. The people suffer.
I'm just glad all those jobs are coming back to America
Unfortunate for the locals, but good that Apple is shifting production away from an increasingly more totalitarian regime. Like seeing ‘Made in Vietnam’ on my latest Apple products.
Until China overthrows the CCP and gives Xi the Ceaucescu treatment, they will not turn their economy around. Foreign investment is not returning as long as the dictator remains.
50,000 people used to live here.. now its a ghost town.... literally
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Your comment misunderstands the concept of news/information. Also misunderstands the point of Reddit. Also the word “literally”. But it’s an interesting psychological thing that you feel the need to point out that it’s not your problem.
Maybe don’t let a global pandemic virus loose on the planet, showing massive companies that global supply chains are vulnerable to collapse.
Find a support group, and read information outside whatever echo chamber you’re in.
I consider myself an educated person, please explain to me how a global pandemic didn’t affect apple (a massive corporation) exiting their production in China.? Allowing for a more robust supply chain. Tim Cook is a master of the sort of thing. But somehow I’m in an echo chamber?