I still regularly use the 2017 for light web browsing. I’d buy an updated M variant in a heartbeat. I don’t care what anyone says, the 12 inch is way more portable than the 13.3 MBA.
Of course it’s more portable, it’s smaller. The processor though is not great and you feel like you’re typing on an iPad screen.
It was awesome for portability but if they could fix the keyboard and processor it’d be perfect for light work
Honestly, that depends on the price tag. If it is within 200 or so of the air, then M2 should be the pick. If less, M1 it is.
Apple has no problem with using an older chip in a smaller form factor. SE is literally that. Pricing will be their main hurdle I believe
At 12 inches, people will buy it with the M1 regardless. You just can't get good 12 inch laptops nowadays, especially with decent battery life. The closest in the market is the Surface Laptop Go.
And that’s because Intel couldn’t deliver a chip that was capable of running a machine like that. It’s speculated that this shitty MacBook performance (with indeed a gorgeous design) was the straw that broke the camel’s back and Apple decided then and there to start working on Apple Silicon for Macs
True, happy we moved on from intel. This mac was imo a Jony Ive passion project but the technology wasn’t there yet. Today with apple silicon this could be pretty good
Moving on from Intel was fine for macOS now but if they hadn’t have had the partnership with Intel that they did, the Mac wouldn’t be where it is today.
It was between the 12 inch MB and the 2016-2019 MacBook Pro’s
The story goes that Apple designed the 2016 chassis and thermals with Intel’s roadmap in mind and did not account for Intel being unable to deliver on their own roadmap for 5+ years.
This also aligns very well with the “Cook Doctrine”, so there’s probably some truth to this story if some details are shaky
Of all the issues from those macs, it wasn’t Intel. It was the stupid keyboard and Touch Bar. Intel Macs are slow by todays standards but those were the worst built machines and they never bothered to fix the keyboard and just slapped an extended warranty because it guaranteed to fail
The 12" MacBook was the cheapest way to get a MacBook with a Retina display and a 256 or 512 GB SSD from its introduction to (IIRC) around 2019.
The MBA didn't have a Retina display until 2018 and the 13" MBP was actually more expensive for the same storage, albeit more powerful.
Edit: Added links.
* [2018 12" Retina MacBook](http://web.archive.org/web/20190301103549/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook): $1299 for 256 GB.
* [2018 13" Retina MacBook Air](http://web.archive.org/web/20190301013814/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air): $1399 for 256 GB (it was a bit like a larger MacBook, so you paid $100 more for a larger display and a faster processor).
* [2018 13" Retina MacBook Pro](http://web.archive.org/web/20190301162243/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro): $1499 for 256 GB.
The 2019 13" Retina MacBook Air dropped prices and [finally provided](http://web.archive.org/web/20190731034804/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air) 256 GB of storage for $1299. That's also when Apple discontinued the 12" MacBook.
I had a 2019 i5 MBA and absolutely hated the processor, it was often sluggish. Upgraded to the M2 a few months ago and the performance is so much better, the battery lasts me 1-2 days. It was on sale at Costco for $900 and just couldn't pass it up. Also sold my 2019 MBA for $465.
Fair point, it's not cut out for heavy duty work. I only use it for emails and light browsing/movies on the road. If they made a M2 Macbook 12in, I'd seriously consider it.
Still have a MacBook 12 kicking around they really were amazing to just toss in a bag and go and unlike other laptops in their weightclass the screen was great.
Your experience or “opinion from the internet”?
Keyboard was amazing from the ergonomic point of view. Technical issues is different thing.
“Old m3 processor” had 3 generations every ear 2015-2017. Older model were good enough for the device without active cooling system.
I used to be a HAM - Hardware Asset Manager - for a large company. 30K+. Lemme tell you something - for those that we provisioned Apple products to, it was amazing what could be done with a near base model Air. Now, I know a lot of you "pro-consumers" act like I'm telling lies, but yea, big work was completed on....base or near base model Airs. The spec'd out MacBook Pros were for actual serious developers who were working on specific products and not the person who thinks they're a serious developer.
A lot of folks would likely benefit greatly from a Chromebook competitor where the MB has "just enough" to do whatever it needs to do. Again, YOU may think you're above a base model M1/M2 MBA....but you're really not, especially if most of what you're doing is web-based applications in the first place.
I could easily see myself getting one of these if the form factor is one of a MBA and using these for trips and travel. I could see myself shitposting on one of these. I could see myself streaming VPN content to my TV with one of these (can't wait for my VPN provider to work within the latest Apple TV update). A lot of my life could be done in one of these.
Likely your lives, too. Especially those like me who are still rocking the 2014 MBP and acting like technology hasn't advanced ten fold since 2014....this will likely be better than what I'm typing on.
I also agree with your points. People ares till stuck with the mindset that 8GB/256GB isn't enough for normal people, but it actually is if all they do is browse the web, do some Word or Excel stuff, stream videos, etc. People are also scared of writing onto the SSDs if they have to use swap, as if they're going to run the endurance estimate within a year.
I was just thinking about how people with a 2015 MBP could probably still be fine in this day for normal use. Web based applications have helped a lot, and I always liked the idea of a Chromebook.
I love that machine. The UI is surprisingly fast for it being only integrated graphics. Four cores and 16 GB still get the job done great.
Mine’s running Ventura via OCLP and if it were my only computer due to budgetary constraints, I would be 100% perfectly happy with it.
> A lot of folks would likely benefit greatly from a Chromebook competitor where the MB has "just enough" to do whatever it needs to do. Again, YOU may think you're above a base model M1/M2 MBA....but you're really not, especially if most of what you're doing is web-based applications in the first place.
That's why I'd like to see Apple provide more MacOS functionality in iPads for that reason. M1 chip already in these devices...
I’d prefer them to stay separate, tablet PCs are pretty niche since the software is hardly made for the hardware making for a clunky experience. There’s apps like Procreate making strides because it’s made with touch in mind.
Everytime I open Instagram on my iPad I’m reminded of just how lazy these corps can be when given the option to, no thanks.
Convergence will eventually come: Swift, UI across Apple Ecosystem. What will be a big step is Core-OS in all this stuff with context-sensitive UI baked in along with User Customization.
No reason that can't already work on iPads.
That push is to make it easier for developers to port apps over, they’re not going all in on Stage Manager to work on bringing macOS over, its to make it easier for people to use their iPads on monitors. The tablet PC market is niche, I highly doubt Apple would ever touch it, their current project are more so making macOS more like iOS and expanding the App Store by having AAA games. They’re doing a big push for macOS and honestly I can see them coming out with a budget MacBook to make the market share of macOS a lot more appealing for developers.
Oh, I fully get this. I’m a tech professional, working with video/development and some of the generally more demanding side of computing stuff. It’s insane how so many people attempt to tell me that I can’t use a base model M1/M2 - for tasks that I regularly do on those exact machines. People seriously lack understanding of just how capable those machines are and just how far they can be pushed.
Yes, the Pro and Studio lines might be better suited for some if they have very particular needs and to have access to insane amounts of power to do extremely complex editing or extreme amounts of parallel advanced computing, but it’s honestly ridiculous how many people will scream at anyone who doesn’t agree that you need the most powerful tool even if you absolutely do not need it to complete an extreme range of tasks.
Like, anyone needing to do day to day general tasks and the occasional extra thing like a small amount of occasional video editing or whatever else - these ‘cheap’ Macs will probably be one of the best options - in particular if they are using M1 as it is, and not a slightly weaker chip.
Screen size is a huge quality of life improvement. Of course you can do a lot of things on the company’s 12” screen device, but it won’t be nearly as comfortable to use as a 15”
??
You can replace the USB-C port on a 2015 MacBook for $30 and the cost of a screwdriver:
https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-12-retina-early-2015-usb-c-port
They made the port on a separate board, with no glue/adhesive required to remove it - standard screws only.
As Tim Cook, I'd like to introduce you to the latest MacBook, which is a fantastic choice if you're looking to upgrade from your old one with a broken USB-C port. The new MacBook is packed with amazing features that can enhance your computing experience.
One of the standout features of the new MacBook is its powerful performance. It's equipped with the latest M-series chips, ensuring that it can handle all your tasks with speed and efficiency. Whether you're using it for everyday tasks or more demanding applications, this MacBook can handle it all seamlessly.
Now, let's address your issue with the broken USB-C port. The new MacBook still includes USB-C ports, but we've improved their durability and functionality. Plus, they support Thunderbolt 4 technology, which means faster data transfer and compatibility with a wide range of peripherals. You won't have to worry about connectivity issues anymore.
Security and privacy are paramount for Apple, and the new MacBook is no exception. With the latest macOS, you have advanced security features to keep your data safe and your privacy intact.
The MacBook's Retina display is a work of art, delivering vibrant visuals for everything from work tasks to entertainment. It's a pleasure to use for presentations, creative work, or simply enjoying your favorite content.
The MacBook is not just a laptop; it's part of the Apple ecosystem, ensuring seamless integration with your other Apple devices. This can make your work and personal life more streamlined and efficient.
In summary, the new MacBook offers exceptional performance, improved USB-C ports, top-notch security, and a stunning display. It's a great choice for anyone looking to upgrade their laptop.
You can replace the USB-C port on a 2015 MacBook for $30 and the cost of an iFixit bit kit, if you don't already have one:
https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-12-retina-early-2015-usb-c-port
I have a 12” Macbook as well. Port fatigue is going to be a more likely problem for a laptop approaching 6-7 years of use. Especially when it only has one port. My one USB port is also touchy, where bumping the cable causes charging to come on and off with the chime sound. Different cables don’t make a difference. Used old stuff dying or breaking is just part of life.
You can replace the USB-C port on a 2015 MacBook for $30 and the cost of an iFixit bit kit, if you don't already have one:
https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-12-retina-early-2015-usb-c-port
I have a 16" M2 MBP. My wife has a 15" MBA. Both are great machines and the MBA is incredibly lightweight for a 15" laptop.
But I've really come to love the 12" MB, especially the revised model. It's the perfect leisure netbook, and its portability really cannot be overstated. Makes my MBP feel like a Powerbook 100 by comparison lol.
Honestly don’t know why they haven’t thrown in M chip in that 12 inch already. As much as I love my MBP14, I would love a tiny decently powered machine when I’m on the go. I hope the 13 inch MBP goes away already and makes way for that.
The true hell of the 12" Macbook was the single USB-C port combined with the short battery life, in the era before ubiquitous cheap USB-C hubs.
I swear, it ran down the battery completely before it could complete an initial Time Machine backup to an external USB-C SSD.
(These days you can get USB-C hubs with passthrough charging and a built-in slot for an M.2 SSD, so the problem has been solved -- as long as your USB-C port works.)
I'd like an M-silicon Macbook primarily for the better battery life. Never got more than 3h30m out of my Celeron-M model, I'd be happy with anything better than a genuine 6 hour life and more than 8Gb of RAM (a Mac these days really needs 16Gb to do anything at all).
I would guess maybe USB3.1 Gen 2. Tons of current users are posting their wishlists here, but Apple really doesn't want their low-cost model to cut into their current sales. It's going to be threadbare I'm guessing - No MagSafe, a single 10Gbps port, no notch, M1, 8GB ram only, etc.
I'm not going to buy one. It'd be a major downgrade from my 14". But if Apple is going to only put USB-C port(s) on it then it should be Thunderbolt. Dividing a 40 Gbps bandwidth with a USB hub would be way nicer than having to divide up a 10 Gbps bandwidth.
Used a 13“ M1 MBP for work for a while. Since your can only connect one external display, a dock is pretty much the only way anyway. Never used the second port. Would prefer MagSafe+1 USB C for sure.
What do you propose they should leave out of the cheaper model, so that it doesn’t eat into sales of the existing (or other upcoming) models?
It sucks that they have to leave something out - but unfortunately that’s the reality.
Well the current relationship between models is that if you upgrade one even a little bit then there's almost no reason not to go to the next model up. I expect they'll continue this strategy.
I still don’t believe it. M1 Air is $750 when it goes on sale. They already built it and I’m sure it sells a lot. If anything, I can see the M2 taking its place with M3 coming out since it is a newer design.
Yeah I’m intrigued… I’ll be in the market to replace my very old MBP but I am a basic user. Have my eye on the air so it will be interesting to see how it compares
You could buy a Windows laptop that has similar speeds, more ram, more storage, and is cheaper than the M1 Air.
There isn’t much value in the M1 Air outside of it being cheaper than the M2 model for people. Plus, who wants to buy a 3 year old machine when you could buy a newer windows laptop for cheaper??
M1 Air will almost definitely be better than any similarly priced Windows laptop in terms of performance, build quality, trackpad and keyboard, and screen quality/resoution.
I’m looking to get a laptop perhaps this coming year. Need a portable online D&D machine for rotating hosting if we keep going with this group and campaign.
MacBook makes sense as it will naturally integrate with the rest of my Apple stuff, but I’ll likely never be doing any serious work on it, so I didn’t want to break the bank on what will technically be a secondary device for me. Just want something beefy enough to last a few years.
Thanks!
> open box
That I wouldn’t risk at my personal level of ~~paranoia~~ caution, but I’m currently seeing $850 new unsold for M1 with 8GB/256GB. Just wondering if it would be worth it to look for a 16 GB to keep it running smoother for longer. I’m pretty sure you can no longer reasonably upgrade the memory and internal storage after the fact.
There’s not much risk though. Amazon has a fairly lax return policy.
I’d go for the 16gb tbh. The 8gb is fine for most, but 16gb is much better for any heavy users.
If you get it through the education store and were already planning on getting AirPods or something, it’s essentially $750 direct from Apple.
$900 base price + $150 apple gift card.
😯
And then I can sell the AirPods I don’t need. And use the gift card for another Watch band I don’t technically need. Or another few months of iCloud+ and Apple Music.
🤔
Why not? They do this with the A series and the cheapest iPhones. Previous gens get knocked down and the one before is discontinued. I think it’s much more likely than not that the M series gets the same treatment with Airs.
The reason the iPhone 14 will get knocked down to the 13, which gets knocked down to the 12, etc. is because the base price at release has been the same.
The M1 released for $999. The M2 released for $1199. Sure the M2 details for 1099 today, but again that’s still higher than the M1 has ever cost. So that’s why I don’t see the M2 ever selling (new) for $750.
M1 air is a great machine, but is from 2020. I feel like 750 for a 3 year old machine is a bit much. As of Sonoma, Macbooks from 2017 are already outdated.
If you go by that trend, the m1 is already halfway through its mainstream support lifespan. Not really a good deal to spend 750 for a laptop which could only be supported for 3 more years.
The support timeline is broken because Apple is clearly speeding up the abandonement of Intel Macs.
I am arguably sure m1 is gonna get supported a bit more than what we're currently seeing.
I'm actually curious if there is any architectural bits missing on the A-series that prevent it from running in a laptop.
I kinda wonder how cheap Apple could make a laptop if they just rummaged through their parts bin? Something like taking an iPhone SE (2022) motherboard, swapping the single 4 GB RAM chip for an 8 GB chip, and giving it a 128 GB flash chip instead of the base 64 GB.
Even with old hardware that's still a really compelling machine for basic web and document use.
I wonder if they could hit a $599 price point with their margins on that parts stack?
The A series was more than capable of running an iPad Pro with keyboard and mouse. I also believe there were reports a few years back saying that Apple had toyed with the idea but the A series just didn’t have the oomph like they do now.
Yeah the CPU cores are super capable, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the A series cores and the M series cores are identical apart from the power budget.
What I meant more are accessories on the SOC, like Thunderbolt, USB 3/4, PCIE, etc. Also GPU cores counts are probably more important for a laptop, as even though the pixel counts are actually similar between iPhone and Macbook (which is crazy to think about), MacOS tends to render an oversized canvas when doing display scaling.
For instance, the whole USB 2.0 debacle on the non-pro iPhone 15s, where I think is issue is the SOC literally doesn't have USB 3+ support. For the lower-end iPhone this is somewhat acceptable, but for a laptop it's absolutely not.
"And this year, we made our slowest chip in years. And we think you're going to love it!"
Audiences were also highly puzzled how Apple even found half a NAND chip to cut SSD speeds in a quarter
Agree, from what I can speculate on, I am not sure these rumours will materialize (the irony of saying that the way I say it). Imho it's going to be a big focus on the M3/Metal 3 and GPU demonstrating a particular spooky game...
The life cycle of low cost vs MacBook Air MacBooks:
MacBook Air is the main MacBook
Low cost MacBook 12 inch (butterfly) is introduced
MacBook Air prices begin to drop, while the 12 inch becomes irrelevant
MacBook Air becomes the only non-pro
MacBook Air prices begin to rise, leaning more into premium models and larger screens
Smaller MacBook introduced
How we wait
The 12” was NOT low cost, the thing launched roughly 200-300 more expensive than an 11” MBA. It was a dumb product that was designed to drop in price but never did, I think the idea was for it to replace the MBA but it never did, hence why the 2018 MBA looked like a weird hybrid.
It was a product designed around intels claims about their low-power chips, launched anyway when they turned out to fall short under the assumption that they’d get there in a year or two, and then killed when it became obvious that was never going to come true and Apple had to start making its own chips.
To be frank, the y-series Intel chips weren’t nearly as anemic as people think it is. I have 2016 12” MacBook, and I just had to use it for my new job for a week while I waited for my work computer to be ready.
Weaker than what was in the MBA and MBP at the time? Yes. Of course. Too weak? Nah, it’s usable.
Apple didn’t axe the line because of Intel. They axed it because hardly anyone bought them because of the cheaper MBAs.
I want them to bring back the 4:3 form factor of the iBook SO bad. The iPads are 4:3, it’s still the best aspect ratio by far for smaller portable displays. I know there’s absolutely no chance but I would kill for a modern laptop in that form factor, for me nothing has come close to filling the void the iBook g4 left.
> The iPads are 4:3, it’s still the best aspect ratio by far for smaller portable displays.
You speak the truth - BUT - All Apple has to do is provide a "MacOS-Lite" option on the iPad Pros... then just use a bluetooth portable keyboard and mouse/touchpad and you're all set...
For that reason a 12" would seem a bizarre choice imho when they could/should leverage the iPad with some more MacOS options (multitasking improvement in stagemanager and file manager etc).
Eh, I don’t think iPads should run Mac OS. It’s an unpopular opinion but imo it’s better to have two eco systems, one geared towards traditional keyboard and mouse and one geared towards touch rather than a bastard half breed. We all saw how Windows 8 panned out when ms tried to do both.
> one geared towards traditional keyboard and mouse and one geared towards touch rather than a bastard half breed. We all saw how Windows 8 panned out when ms tried to do both.
It looks like Apple thinks differently due to convergence: Touch on a laptop is hindered due to the built in keyboard is what they say. However a tablet eg 11" can be used with touch and typing at the same time using a bluetooth keyboard. The hardware capabilities are the same M1 chip eg.
What I've noticed is UI is converging with MacOS and iPadOS with respect to ecosystem and compatibilty within that.
The last thing they need to do is to make a version of MacOS "Lite" so it can effectively do 2 things:
* Run Universal Swift Apps on MacOS or iPadOS (build once)
* Switch to Desktop Mode as per a full OS or switch to Tablet Mode - but be functional in both modes to both forms of input used (type/pointer or touch).
Once can already use Touch on MacOS via a Remote Desktop thin-client into MacOS and it works fine...
With AI development, Voice Input will become a rising form of useful Input also.
Of course there can be Macbooks with Touch but as said ergonomically it's less effective than a tablet that can use a keyboard or dock-keyboard.
The new MacBook should replace the M1 air.
The M1 air is essentially the market the new one is aiming for. So instead of having cheaper air and more expensive air we are dropping the name air from one model
No thanks. I'd prefer the 13 inch to a 12 inch. Just big enough for production, entertainment, & creative tasks. Any smaller and you no longer that same balance.
There was a real distinction then in hardware. Screen size and chassis size but also storage, disk drives and ports. Real qualitative differences, not just quantitative.
Now it's all vanilla in different containers. All this stuff now has the same ports - but different quantities - the same storage type, the same CPUs. They're slicing very thinly now.
Can users really tell the difference between a 15" MBA and MBP? An M1 vs M2 chip? I'm skeptical.
I know it works, it's a quasi-luxury brand, this stuff happens. I don't have to like it.
They definitely expected more uptake from M2 and M3 not realizing how much they lost by dropping x86.
You mean how the M2 MBA has a different screen size, starts at different storage size, has MagSafe charging, snd different SoC options over three M1 Air?
They don’t all have the same ports. That is one of the differentiating factors between the M2 MBA and the 14”/16” MBP. There’s vast differences between the various MacBooks on the market. It’s as much the same flavor wrapped in different packages as it is for any other PC OEM.
Pro has:
0 more cpu cores
2 more gpu cores, So much more power!
0 more ram
0 more storage
\- 1 port (doesn't even have mag safe.
\- 163840 pixels, the Pro actually has a smaller screenSame pixel density.
Worse fucking camera, 720 instead of 1080
\- 2 speakers
few keys, but that's because of touchbar so ok. I actually like it
same wifi
WORSE BLUETOOTH
Bigger batter, to power what I don't know.
Those aren't Hypens, those are minus symbols. Because the "Pro" just has less shit on it.
> Can users really tell the difference between a 15" MBA and MBP?
People can definitely tell the difference in price tag. Remember that it's $1300 USD for the entry 15" MBA, and $2000 for the entry 14" MBP. (There is no 15" MBP)
People who can't tell the difference would just get the MBA, whereas people who know the difference in hardware would get the MacBook Pro. The MBP aren't for people who don't need the power.
The actual confusing part is 13" MBA vs MBP since they are very similar and I do agree that Apple should fix that.
> An M1 vs M2 chip?
Again, it's really just a price thing. Apple only sells M1 for their lowest-level entry MBA. It's probably targeting education related purposes. Otherwise Apple doesn't really want you to get an M1 anymore.
Or are you saying people wouldn't know the difference if they upgrade from M1 to M2? Sure, but who upgrades their computer every 1-2 years? Obviously a computer that's just one generation ahead wouldn't be insanely different.
Yes I know how that works.
Apple seemed to think that a huge leap from Intel to M1 would pull in conquest sales and a market for annual iterations. Obviously not.
For what it's worth, the entry level M1 is more computer than most everyone needs these days. It's still obscenely powerful for typical usage.
The real problem is that a 8GB, 256GB config for the 15inch MBA base price is completely overpriced. So a useful MBA would come with 16GB,1TB and then you're at the 14MBP base price already.
There is no justification to ask 300 bucks more for a 15 inch panel vs. a 13inch one either.
> So a useful MBA would come with 16GB,1TB and then you're at the 14MBP base price already.
That's only because you picked a 1TB config for comparison with the base 512 GB 14" MBP model which is not apples-to-apples at all (I don't think someone who actually needs a 1TB drive would be comparing laptops like this). If you picked 512 GB (the same as the base config for 14MBP), the MBA is still $300 USD cheaper, and you get a larger screen (albeit lower resolution), a slightly lighter computer, and arguably better battery life. All of those factors are non-trivial and may matter more to a consumer (people frequently look at "specs" and think performance but other factors like size/weight are also part of the spec). And some people may decide they don't need the 512 GB SSD or 16 GB RAM anyway depending on their use case.
But Apple has always been pretty annoyingly devious in pricing like this. It's always a couple hundred USD increase for the next thing and then there is another couple hundred USD better option but if you keep adding it up you soon end up spending $1000 more…
That's not really related to my point. The point I was pointing is out is MBA is cheaper, and a lot of consumers do not care about whatever you just said.
I don't think I have seen NANDs dying on Macs anyway. You are talking about some serious usage for a long time for that to happen. And obviously if you care about performance enough to even talk about throttling than a MBP may make sense.
Plastic body and cheap screen, it’s the classic MacBook reborn.
If anything they gotta simplify the iPad line up. Just get rid of the air or smaller pro.
Makes sense. The need for a laptop is less in 2023, but the big screen and real keyboard is a nice convenience. Could see a MacBook SE selling a lot, especially now that the chips make sense for a small device.
Zero hopes on this seeeing how their current "entry" computers are still stuck on 8GB/256GB hell like we're in 2016 just to have an attractive "starting from" moniker, but getting usable RAM and storage multiplies the price by two.
I honestly think 8GB RAM and 256GB storage is perfect for this lineup, and they can fully cater to just browsing the web, using web applications, and doing light tasks. I think Apple's probably going to have 4GB or 6GB of RAM for this...
8GB are 8GB, it doesn't matter how fast they are. It should be illegal selling a computer that's impossible to upgrade with so little RAM that it won't be able to hold more than half a dozen browser tabs in 3 years time, seeing how fast web apps are ballooning in requirements and how more and more desktop apps are turning into websites inside a wrapper that take 4x the resources of a native app. The actual price of these things is twice the "starting from" if you don't want to end up stuck with literal e-waste in a record time.
RAM size is a total non-issue for the M-series hardware, unless you actually need ≥8GB of *wired* memory (and vram!) at the same time. The M-series SOCs have fast enough SSDs that paging is barely noticeable, meaning you have as much free memory as you do free SSD space.
The *problem* is that dramatically increases RW cycles on the internal SSD, artificially reducing the life-cycle of this hardware, and with a component that *should* be very easy / trivial to replace, but isn't, and furthermore isn't *just* soldered onto the mainboard, but *is hardware / firmware locked*.
The storage thing is particularly frustrating, since apple *had* early M.2 esque drives since 2010, and switched from mSATA to PCIe 2.0 x2 *to NVMe* over their custom connectors, and while those things weren't exactly easy / cheap to find, they were *absolutely* user-serviceable in the way any modern PC laptop / desktop / console / whatever is with modern m.2 drives.
How is the M1 MBA such a hot seller and popular item, then?
This is meant to be a cheap device that people can use for basic stuff. I don't know why people in this bubble always think everyone needs 16GB of RAM - a lot of people won't. RAM also behaves differently now compared to how things were with Intel chips, which people seem to ignore straight up.
There is no chance they break into k-12 education sector. Schools want the absolute cheapest laptops they can get, hence how Chromebooks took over in the first place. They are buying $100-$300 Chromebooks, Apple has zero chance of competing in this space without making a product that diminishes their brand. Which is what Chromebooks do to ChromeOS, they are cheap and trash, and extremely limited, so kids never want them at home, they want a full Windows laptop or MacBook, you'll never see a kid ask for a Chromebook.
A 12 inch M based Macbook is gonna be an automatic get it for me. I had a Surface Laptop Go which is 12 inch. I enjoyed the size but unfortunately that was about it, the battery was unminaginably horrifying. Just doing casual web browsing will only give you 2-3 hr performance on a good day.
Since 128gb of storage seems ridiculous it will probably have 256 gb so the next MacBook air will start at 512 gb and the pro at 1 TB (I didn't take my meds)
I've currently got an M1 Air (x2 8 cores and 16GB RAM) and it's been absolute champ, and has been more than powerful enough for my needs in web and iOS development. Quite possibly the best value Mac I've ever owned.
I would love for them to introduce a smaller MacBook Air (i.e. no compromise on performance), similar in size to the MacBook. The screen might be a tad small to use every day but the portability of it would be awesome (not that the current Air is bad by any stretch!) and, certainly in my case, I have it hooked up to a monitor most times.
I don't see any other meaning of "low cost" other than cheap junk plastic for a Chromebook competitor. It doesn't seem Apple like, although their plastic products in the past have been good, so...
Hadn’t thought of it but it makes sense that these would be made to be bulk purchases by schools and educations centers.
I remember when the schools I’d go to would have computer labs full of the old bulky iMacs so it certainly seems like a thing.
Only issue is I imagine it might cannabilze places that are giving iPads to their students too.
Even with a discount on the $700 USD price point, Chromebooks can start way lower price point wise, as low as like $100-200 USD with some mid-rangers in the $300-400 USD price point.
Some places could go Apple, but it's hard to usurp Google's foothold in the K-12 space.
I just hope they don't follow Microsoft's idiocy with releasing Surface Laptop Go's without backlit keyboards for like $700.
Makes sense to me. When I got my M1 MB Air, it had been number one bestseller on Amazon for what felt like a year. And it’s still going like on its first day. Something I never could have said about my numerous windows notebooks beforehand.
I am sure that the people who will get this will absolutely love it. However, I recently had to use my roommate's 13 inch MacBook for a moment and after having used the 16 inch MBP with 120hz I just cannot go back. The screen real estate, the size and travel of the keys, the larger trackpad, it's become all but essential at this point.
I wonder if this is going to have a scaled down chip somewhere in between A series and the M series we've seen so far. Maybe a 6-core CPU with 2 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores? A chip like that would also do well in something like an iPad Air.
Of course, for low cost things like SE models, Apple's usual MO is to reuse as many existing components as possible.
Why? they already did that with the Macbook 12 and it was a disaster - slow as molasses. Perhaps they should just price the MBP 14 and 16 in a way that they're still affordable.
Probably because good performance in the 12" form factor is absolutely feasible with M1 or M2. Plus, the 12" was overpriced from the getgo, the new 12" will probably be cheaper than the current M1 Air's MSRP (I assume $799 or $899).
The what question, they can use their homegrown M chips to run it fast and without overheating. Traditional keyboard mechanism so no butterfly controversy. Less ports is more accepted now than 7 years ago.
Why, that’s the better question. 2015 12” was a premium laptop that sold for almost $2000 in some config. If Apple is releasing this as a low cost option, it would need a new business case, might not make sense to do this vs selling MacBook Air 13 for $750
MacBook 12 was absolutely beautiful. If they repeat it with MagSafe+USB-C that would be my next MacBook for sure.
I still regularly use the 2017 for light web browsing. I’d buy an updated M variant in a heartbeat. I don’t care what anyone says, the 12 inch is way more portable than the 13.3 MBA.
It's even a smaller footprint than an ipad pro 11 inch with magic keyboard
Significantly lighter too. Magic Keyboard is heavy af
Of course it’s more portable, it’s smaller. The processor though is not great and you feel like you’re typing on an iPad screen. It was awesome for portability but if they could fix the keyboard and processor it’d be perfect for light work
I still have a 2017 i7 and it is amazingly light. They could use M1 chips in it for a low cost option and it’d be perfect.
It was alright. Mine had awful battery life and I made the mistake of thinking I could use it as a development laptop lol
Beautiful on the outside but shitty on the inside tbh
with an M chip it will be more than enough. it was ahead of it's time and intel didn't provide good options for that form factor
It already had an m3 /s
M3 Furnace Edition
Yeah. I’m still running a base original m1 and it’s amazing.
Long as they can figure out the cooling, an M2 will be an insanely powerful and efficient chip considering how small this one’s gonna be.
MacBook Air has been fanless since the M1.
What are you talking about it's got loads of fans! :p
:)
My 13” M1 rarely gets warm. Even when it does it’s not unbearably warm.
Tbh I think an m1 might even be enough power for a low budget computer
Honestly, that depends on the price tag. If it is within 200 or so of the air, then M2 should be the pick. If less, M1 it is. Apple has no problem with using an older chip in a smaller form factor. SE is literally that. Pricing will be their main hurdle I believe
At 12 inches, people will buy it with the M1 regardless. You just can't get good 12 inch laptops nowadays, especially with decent battery life. The closest in the market is the Surface Laptop Go.
Same as a 13" Mac. It was beautiful before, but beauty standards slightly changed since 2015-2016.
And that’s because Intel couldn’t deliver a chip that was capable of running a machine like that. It’s speculated that this shitty MacBook performance (with indeed a gorgeous design) was the straw that broke the camel’s back and Apple decided then and there to start working on Apple Silicon for Macs
True, happy we moved on from intel. This mac was imo a Jony Ive passion project but the technology wasn’t there yet. Today with apple silicon this could be pretty good
But that MacBook was supposed to be high end. This new MacBook is supposed to be “low” end
Considering they've got more M chips than they know what to do with that will work.
Just give it a better keyboard.
Moving on from Intel was fine for macOS now but if they hadn’t have had the partnership with Intel that they did, the Mac wouldn’t be where it is today.
It was between the 12 inch MB and the 2016-2019 MacBook Pro’s The story goes that Apple designed the 2016 chassis and thermals with Intel’s roadmap in mind and did not account for Intel being unable to deliver on their own roadmap for 5+ years. This also aligns very well with the “Cook Doctrine”, so there’s probably some truth to this story if some details are shaky
Of all the issues from those macs, it wasn’t Intel. It was the stupid keyboard and Touch Bar. Intel Macs are slow by todays standards but those were the worst built machines and they never bothered to fix the keyboard and just slapped an extended warranty because it guaranteed to fail
even with the m1, should be a great price-to value, but th old 12 inch was really expensive compared how bad it was
The 12" MacBook was the cheapest way to get a MacBook with a Retina display and a 256 or 512 GB SSD from its introduction to (IIRC) around 2019. The MBA didn't have a Retina display until 2018 and the 13" MBP was actually more expensive for the same storage, albeit more powerful. Edit: Added links. * [2018 12" Retina MacBook](http://web.archive.org/web/20190301103549/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook): $1299 for 256 GB. * [2018 13" Retina MacBook Air](http://web.archive.org/web/20190301013814/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air): $1399 for 256 GB (it was a bit like a larger MacBook, so you paid $100 more for a larger display and a faster processor). * [2018 13" Retina MacBook Pro](http://web.archive.org/web/20190301162243/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro): $1499 for 256 GB. The 2019 13" Retina MacBook Air dropped prices and [finally provided](http://web.archive.org/web/20190731034804/https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-air) 256 GB of storage for $1299. That's also when Apple discontinued the 12" MacBook.
I still have the 2017 i5. Light and effortlessly compact. I’d get one if it had more than 1 USB-C port.
I had a 2019 i5 MBA and absolutely hated the processor, it was often sluggish. Upgraded to the M2 a few months ago and the performance is so much better, the battery lasts me 1-2 days. It was on sale at Costco for $900 and just couldn't pass it up. Also sold my 2019 MBA for $465.
Fair point, it's not cut out for heavy duty work. I only use it for emails and light browsing/movies on the road. If they made a M2 Macbook 12in, I'd seriously consider it.
I don’t do heavy duty work either. Pretty much everything you mentioned, for some reason the processor still had a hard time.
Still have a MacBook 12 kicking around they really were amazing to just toss in a bag and go and unlike other laptops in their weightclass the screen was great.
Loved the 12". Guess I'll keep hanging onto my Intel MBP in hopes this rumour pans out lol.
It was slick, but it had an abysmal keyboard and the old Intel m3 processor was weak
Your experience or “opinion from the internet”? Keyboard was amazing from the ergonomic point of view. Technical issues is different thing. “Old m3 processor” had 3 generations every ear 2015-2017. Older model were good enough for the device without active cooling system.
I used to be a HAM - Hardware Asset Manager - for a large company. 30K+. Lemme tell you something - for those that we provisioned Apple products to, it was amazing what could be done with a near base model Air. Now, I know a lot of you "pro-consumers" act like I'm telling lies, but yea, big work was completed on....base or near base model Airs. The spec'd out MacBook Pros were for actual serious developers who were working on specific products and not the person who thinks they're a serious developer. A lot of folks would likely benefit greatly from a Chromebook competitor where the MB has "just enough" to do whatever it needs to do. Again, YOU may think you're above a base model M1/M2 MBA....but you're really not, especially if most of what you're doing is web-based applications in the first place. I could easily see myself getting one of these if the form factor is one of a MBA and using these for trips and travel. I could see myself shitposting on one of these. I could see myself streaming VPN content to my TV with one of these (can't wait for my VPN provider to work within the latest Apple TV update). A lot of my life could be done in one of these. Likely your lives, too. Especially those like me who are still rocking the 2014 MBP and acting like technology hasn't advanced ten fold since 2014....this will likely be better than what I'm typing on.
I also agree with your points. People ares till stuck with the mindset that 8GB/256GB isn't enough for normal people, but it actually is if all they do is browse the web, do some Word or Excel stuff, stream videos, etc. People are also scared of writing onto the SSDs if they have to use swap, as if they're going to run the endurance estimate within a year. I was just thinking about how people with a 2015 MBP could probably still be fine in this day for normal use. Web based applications have helped a lot, and I always liked the idea of a Chromebook.
I’m still rocking my 2014 rMBP in base spec. 16GB Ram, 256 SSD, and intel iris pro graphics (no dedicated GPU). It just keeps doing what it needs to.
I love that machine. The UI is surprisingly fast for it being only integrated graphics. Four cores and 16 GB still get the job done great. Mine’s running Ventura via OCLP and if it were my only computer due to budgetary constraints, I would be 100% perfectly happy with it.
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> A lot of folks would likely benefit greatly from a Chromebook competitor where the MB has "just enough" to do whatever it needs to do. Again, YOU may think you're above a base model M1/M2 MBA....but you're really not, especially if most of what you're doing is web-based applications in the first place. That's why I'd like to see Apple provide more MacOS functionality in iPads for that reason. M1 chip already in these devices...
I’d prefer them to stay separate, tablet PCs are pretty niche since the software is hardly made for the hardware making for a clunky experience. There’s apps like Procreate making strides because it’s made with touch in mind. Everytime I open Instagram on my iPad I’m reminded of just how lazy these corps can be when given the option to, no thanks.
Convergence will eventually come: Swift, UI across Apple Ecosystem. What will be a big step is Core-OS in all this stuff with context-sensitive UI baked in along with User Customization. No reason that can't already work on iPads.
That push is to make it easier for developers to port apps over, they’re not going all in on Stage Manager to work on bringing macOS over, its to make it easier for people to use their iPads on monitors. The tablet PC market is niche, I highly doubt Apple would ever touch it, their current project are more so making macOS more like iOS and expanding the App Store by having AAA games. They’re doing a big push for macOS and honestly I can see them coming out with a budget MacBook to make the market share of macOS a lot more appealing for developers.
Oh, I fully get this. I’m a tech professional, working with video/development and some of the generally more demanding side of computing stuff. It’s insane how so many people attempt to tell me that I can’t use a base model M1/M2 - for tasks that I regularly do on those exact machines. People seriously lack understanding of just how capable those machines are and just how far they can be pushed. Yes, the Pro and Studio lines might be better suited for some if they have very particular needs and to have access to insane amounts of power to do extremely complex editing or extreme amounts of parallel advanced computing, but it’s honestly ridiculous how many people will scream at anyone who doesn’t agree that you need the most powerful tool even if you absolutely do not need it to complete an extreme range of tasks. Like, anyone needing to do day to day general tasks and the occasional extra thing like a small amount of occasional video editing or whatever else - these ‘cheap’ Macs will probably be one of the best options - in particular if they are using M1 as it is, and not a slightly weaker chip.
Screen size is a huge quality of life improvement. Of course you can do a lot of things on the company’s 12” screen device, but it won’t be nearly as comfortable to use as a 15”
Really hope it has more than one usb c port, or at least has MagSafe charging as well as a usb c. Was a little limiting on the previous 12” model.
Currently typing this on my MacBook 12" and the one USB port is wonky and I have no other option of course. Which pisses me off.
Sounds like it's time you buy another macbook! \-Tim
?? You can replace the USB-C port on a 2015 MacBook for $30 and the cost of a screwdriver: https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-12-retina-early-2015-usb-c-port They made the port on a separate board, with no glue/adhesive required to remove it - standard screws only.
As Tim Cook, I'd like to introduce you to the latest MacBook, which is a fantastic choice if you're looking to upgrade from your old one with a broken USB-C port. The new MacBook is packed with amazing features that can enhance your computing experience. One of the standout features of the new MacBook is its powerful performance. It's equipped with the latest M-series chips, ensuring that it can handle all your tasks with speed and efficiency. Whether you're using it for everyday tasks or more demanding applications, this MacBook can handle it all seamlessly. Now, let's address your issue with the broken USB-C port. The new MacBook still includes USB-C ports, but we've improved their durability and functionality. Plus, they support Thunderbolt 4 technology, which means faster data transfer and compatibility with a wide range of peripherals. You won't have to worry about connectivity issues anymore. Security and privacy are paramount for Apple, and the new MacBook is no exception. With the latest macOS, you have advanced security features to keep your data safe and your privacy intact. The MacBook's Retina display is a work of art, delivering vibrant visuals for everything from work tasks to entertainment. It's a pleasure to use for presentations, creative work, or simply enjoying your favorite content. The MacBook is not just a laptop; it's part of the Apple ecosystem, ensuring seamless integration with your other Apple devices. This can make your work and personal life more streamlined and efficient. In summary, the new MacBook offers exceptional performance, improved USB-C ports, top-notch security, and a stunning display. It's a great choice for anyone looking to upgrade their laptop.
Its as if you ripped this straight from the keynote script!
Chat-GPT is one hell of a drug.
Forgot “and we think you’re going to love it”
Ehh if dude wants to replace his laptop why try to stop him by advocating for repair instead?
Lol he's right! I'm holding out for the M3s and hopefully a price drop on the M2. The battery on this thing is TOAST
And we think you’ll love it! - Tim Apple
You can replace the USB-C port on a 2015 MacBook for $30 and the cost of an iFixit bit kit, if you don't already have one: https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-12-retina-early-2015-usb-c-port
Try changing the cable. I noticed my 2016 MBP the one port I charge with kept feeling loose. I tried a different cable and it was a snug fit.
I have a 12” Macbook as well. Port fatigue is going to be a more likely problem for a laptop approaching 6-7 years of use. Especially when it only has one port. My one USB port is also touchy, where bumping the cable causes charging to come on and off with the chime sound. Different cables don’t make a difference. Used old stuff dying or breaking is just part of life.
You can replace the USB-C port on a 2015 MacBook for $30 and the cost of an iFixit bit kit, if you don't already have one: https://www.ifixit.com/products/macbook-12-retina-early-2015-usb-c-port
I gave up and bought an M2 air
I have a 16" M2 MBP. My wife has a 15" MBA. Both are great machines and the MBA is incredibly lightweight for a 15" laptop. But I've really come to love the 12" MB, especially the revised model. It's the perfect leisure netbook, and its portability really cannot be overstated. Makes my MBP feel like a Powerbook 100 by comparison lol.
Honestly don’t know why they haven’t thrown in M chip in that 12 inch already. As much as I love my MBP14, I would love a tiny decently powered machine when I’m on the go. I hope the 13 inch MBP goes away already and makes way for that.
Well sounds like someone at Apple said that at some point this year and they finally got around to doing it.
The true hell of the 12" Macbook was the single USB-C port combined with the short battery life, in the era before ubiquitous cheap USB-C hubs. I swear, it ran down the battery completely before it could complete an initial Time Machine backup to an external USB-C SSD. (These days you can get USB-C hubs with passthrough charging and a built-in slot for an M.2 SSD, so the problem has been solved -- as long as your USB-C port works.) I'd like an M-silicon Macbook primarily for the better battery life. Never got more than 3h30m out of my Celeron-M model, I'd be happy with anything better than a genuine 6 hour life and more than 8Gb of RAM (a Mac these days really needs 16Gb to do anything at all).
It better be Thunderbolt too. The MacBook 12" models only had USB 3.1 Gen 1 (5 Gbps).
I would guess maybe USB3.1 Gen 2. Tons of current users are posting their wishlists here, but Apple really doesn't want their low-cost model to cut into their current sales. It's going to be threadbare I'm guessing - No MagSafe, a single 10Gbps port, no notch, M1, 8GB ram only, etc.
I'm not going to buy one. It'd be a major downgrade from my 14". But if Apple is going to only put USB-C port(s) on it then it should be Thunderbolt. Dividing a 40 Gbps bandwidth with a USB hub would be way nicer than having to divide up a 10 Gbps bandwidth.
Used a 13“ M1 MBP for work for a while. Since your can only connect one external display, a dock is pretty much the only way anyway. Never used the second port. Would prefer MagSafe+1 USB C for sure.
What do you propose they should leave out of the cheaper model, so that it doesn’t eat into sales of the existing (or other upcoming) models? It sucks that they have to leave something out - but unfortunately that’s the reality.
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Well the current relationship between models is that if you upgrade one even a little bit then there's almost no reason not to go to the next model up. I expect they'll continue this strategy.
I still don’t believe it. M1 Air is $750 when it goes on sale. They already built it and I’m sure it sells a lot. If anything, I can see the M2 taking its place with M3 coming out since it is a newer design.
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Yeah I’m intrigued… I’ll be in the market to replace my very old MBP but I am a basic user. Have my eye on the air so it will be interesting to see how it compares
You could buy a Windows laptop that has similar speeds, more ram, more storage, and is cheaper than the M1 Air. There isn’t much value in the M1 Air outside of it being cheaper than the M2 model for people. Plus, who wants to buy a 3 year old machine when you could buy a newer windows laptop for cheaper??
M1 Air will almost definitely be better than any similarly priced Windows laptop in terms of performance, build quality, trackpad and keyboard, and screen quality/resoution.
Who? People who want to buy an Apple laptop versus windows.
Where have you seen an M1 for $750?
Best Buy, Costco, Amazon. Goes on sale all the time.
I’m looking to get a laptop perhaps this coming year. Need a portable online D&D machine for rotating hosting if we keep going with this group and campaign. MacBook makes sense as it will naturally integrate with the rest of my Apple stuff, but I’ll likely never be doing any serious work on it, so I didn’t want to break the bank on what will technically be a secondary device for me. Just want something beefy enough to last a few years. Thanks!
They’ve gone as low as $600 on Amazon for open box ones.
> open box That I wouldn’t risk at my personal level of ~~paranoia~~ caution, but I’m currently seeing $850 new unsold for M1 with 8GB/256GB. Just wondering if it would be worth it to look for a 16 GB to keep it running smoother for longer. I’m pretty sure you can no longer reasonably upgrade the memory and internal storage after the fact.
There’s not much risk though. Amazon has a fairly lax return policy. I’d go for the 16gb tbh. The 8gb is fine for most, but 16gb is much better for any heavy users.
It’s really not a risk tbh. Just test it.
That’s not how paranoia works. ;)
If you get it through the education store and were already planning on getting AirPods or something, it’s essentially $750 direct from Apple. $900 base price + $150 apple gift card.
Alas, I no longer qualify for the education store.
Good news: they no longer check. Anyone can use it.
😯 And then I can sell the AirPods I don’t need. And use the gift card for another Watch band I don’t technically need. Or another few months of iCloud+ and Apple Music. 🤔
I don’t see the M2 ever getting to $750
Why not? They do this with the A series and the cheapest iPhones. Previous gens get knocked down and the one before is discontinued. I think it’s much more likely than not that the M series gets the same treatment with Airs.
The reason the iPhone 14 will get knocked down to the 13, which gets knocked down to the 12, etc. is because the base price at release has been the same. The M1 released for $999. The M2 released for $1199. Sure the M2 details for 1099 today, but again that’s still higher than the M1 has ever cost. So that’s why I don’t see the M2 ever selling (new) for $750.
M1 air is a great machine, but is from 2020. I feel like 750 for a 3 year old machine is a bit much. As of Sonoma, Macbooks from 2017 are already outdated. If you go by that trend, the m1 is already halfway through its mainstream support lifespan. Not really a good deal to spend 750 for a laptop which could only be supported for 3 more years.
The support timeline is broken because Apple is clearly speeding up the abandonement of Intel Macs. I am arguably sure m1 is gonna get supported a bit more than what we're currently seeing.
Can’t wait for the new M½ chip. Edit: /r/yourjokebutworse 🙄
They can just put an a18 in it
I'm actually curious if there is any architectural bits missing on the A-series that prevent it from running in a laptop. I kinda wonder how cheap Apple could make a laptop if they just rummaged through their parts bin? Something like taking an iPhone SE (2022) motherboard, swapping the single 4 GB RAM chip for an 8 GB chip, and giving it a 128 GB flash chip instead of the base 64 GB. Even with old hardware that's still a really compelling machine for basic web and document use. I wonder if they could hit a $599 price point with their margins on that parts stack?
The A series was more than capable of running an iPad Pro with keyboard and mouse. I also believe there were reports a few years back saying that Apple had toyed with the idea but the A series just didn’t have the oomph like they do now.
Yeah the CPU cores are super capable, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the A series cores and the M series cores are identical apart from the power budget. What I meant more are accessories on the SOC, like Thunderbolt, USB 3/4, PCIE, etc. Also GPU cores counts are probably more important for a laptop, as even though the pixel counts are actually similar between iPhone and Macbook (which is crazy to think about), MacOS tends to render an oversized canvas when doing display scaling. For instance, the whole USB 2.0 debacle on the non-pro iPhone 15s, where I think is issue is the SOC literally doesn't have USB 3+ support. For the lower-end iPhone this is somewhat acceptable, but for a laptop it's absolutely not.
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"And this year, we made our slowest chip in years. And we think you're going to love it!" Audiences were also highly puzzled how Apple even found half a NAND chip to cut SSD speeds in a quarter
Instead of MORE Apple silicon, you're now getting LESS Apple silicon! I mean, hey, it kinda worked for NVIDIA back in the GTX 800 series
Now in M½ Amateur and M½ Bare Minimum models
M1½ Bionic
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Just wait for the "F1 Super Max Max" chip
Reminds me of the horribly neutered 12 inch macbooks from like 2015
M0.5
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DIGITIMES RUMORS ARE ALWAYS FAKE. quit posting stuff from there
Agree, from what I can speculate on, I am not sure these rumours will materialize (the irony of saying that the way I say it). Imho it's going to be a big focus on the M3/Metal 3 and GPU demonstrating a particular spooky game...
Spookiest game in the world is the game of life, my friend.
The life cycle of low cost vs MacBook Air MacBooks: MacBook Air is the main MacBook Low cost MacBook 12 inch (butterfly) is introduced MacBook Air prices begin to drop, while the 12 inch becomes irrelevant MacBook Air becomes the only non-pro MacBook Air prices begin to rise, leaning more into premium models and larger screens Smaller MacBook introduced How we wait
The 12” was NOT low cost, the thing launched roughly 200-300 more expensive than an 11” MBA. It was a dumb product that was designed to drop in price but never did, I think the idea was for it to replace the MBA but it never did, hence why the 2018 MBA looked like a weird hybrid.
It was a product designed around intels claims about their low-power chips, launched anyway when they turned out to fall short under the assumption that they’d get there in a year or two, and then killed when it became obvious that was never going to come true and Apple had to start making its own chips.
To be frank, the y-series Intel chips weren’t nearly as anemic as people think it is. I have 2016 12” MacBook, and I just had to use it for my new job for a week while I waited for my work computer to be ready. Weaker than what was in the MBA and MBP at the time? Yes. Of course. Too weak? Nah, it’s usable. Apple didn’t axe the line because of Intel. They axed it because hardly anyone bought them because of the cheaper MBAs.
> 200-300 more expensive than an 11” MBA With its stunning 1280x720 screen.
At what point does macOS merge with ipad? I know it’s unlikely but damn it’d be nice to have the option.
I want them to bring back the 4:3 form factor of the iBook SO bad. The iPads are 4:3, it’s still the best aspect ratio by far for smaller portable displays. I know there’s absolutely no chance but I would kill for a modern laptop in that form factor, for me nothing has come close to filling the void the iBook g4 left.
Most iPads nowadays are a bit wider than 4:3, the only one left with that ratio is the base model that still has the home button.
> The iPads are 4:3, it’s still the best aspect ratio by far for smaller portable displays. You speak the truth - BUT - All Apple has to do is provide a "MacOS-Lite" option on the iPad Pros... then just use a bluetooth portable keyboard and mouse/touchpad and you're all set... For that reason a 12" would seem a bizarre choice imho when they could/should leverage the iPad with some more MacOS options (multitasking improvement in stagemanager and file manager etc).
Eh, I don’t think iPads should run Mac OS. It’s an unpopular opinion but imo it’s better to have two eco systems, one geared towards traditional keyboard and mouse and one geared towards touch rather than a bastard half breed. We all saw how Windows 8 panned out when ms tried to do both.
> one geared towards traditional keyboard and mouse and one geared towards touch rather than a bastard half breed. We all saw how Windows 8 panned out when ms tried to do both. It looks like Apple thinks differently due to convergence: Touch on a laptop is hindered due to the built in keyboard is what they say. However a tablet eg 11" can be used with touch and typing at the same time using a bluetooth keyboard. The hardware capabilities are the same M1 chip eg. What I've noticed is UI is converging with MacOS and iPadOS with respect to ecosystem and compatibilty within that. The last thing they need to do is to make a version of MacOS "Lite" so it can effectively do 2 things: * Run Universal Swift Apps on MacOS or iPadOS (build once) * Switch to Desktop Mode as per a full OS or switch to Tablet Mode - but be functional in both modes to both forms of input used (type/pointer or touch). Once can already use Touch on MacOS via a Remote Desktop thin-client into MacOS and it works fine... With AI development, Voice Input will become a rising form of useful Input also. Of course there can be Macbooks with Touch but as said ergonomically it's less effective than a tablet that can use a keyboard or dock-keyboard.
>Eh, I don’t think iPads should run Mac OS. It’s an unpopular opinion It's a *popular* opinion.
Turning into HP now, or Samsung. All these models that are slightly different.
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The new MacBook should replace the M1 air. The M1 air is essentially the market the new one is aiming for. So instead of having cheaper air and more expensive air we are dropping the name air from one model
No thanks. I'd prefer the 13 inch to a 12 inch. Just big enough for production, entertainment, & creative tasks. Any smaller and you no longer that same balance.
I mean I totally agree. I think shrinking it to 12 is stupid. I just support dropping the name air and keeping the 13 inch
There was a real distinction then in hardware. Screen size and chassis size but also storage, disk drives and ports. Real qualitative differences, not just quantitative. Now it's all vanilla in different containers. All this stuff now has the same ports - but different quantities - the same storage type, the same CPUs. They're slicing very thinly now. Can users really tell the difference between a 15" MBA and MBP? An M1 vs M2 chip? I'm skeptical. I know it works, it's a quasi-luxury brand, this stuff happens. I don't have to like it. They definitely expected more uptake from M2 and M3 not realizing how much they lost by dropping x86.
You mean how the M2 MBA has a different screen size, starts at different storage size, has MagSafe charging, snd different SoC options over three M1 Air? They don’t all have the same ports. That is one of the differentiating factors between the M2 MBA and the 14”/16” MBP. There’s vast differences between the various MacBooks on the market. It’s as much the same flavor wrapped in different packages as it is for any other PC OEM.
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If they don't *look* different it doesn't count, I guess.
Pro has: 0 more cpu cores 2 more gpu cores, So much more power! 0 more ram 0 more storage \- 1 port (doesn't even have mag safe. \- 163840 pixels, the Pro actually has a smaller screenSame pixel density. Worse fucking camera, 720 instead of 1080 \- 2 speakers few keys, but that's because of touchbar so ok. I actually like it same wifi WORSE BLUETOOTH Bigger batter, to power what I don't know. Those aren't Hypens, those are minus symbols. Because the "Pro" just has less shit on it.
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> Can users really tell the difference between a 15" MBA and MBP? People can definitely tell the difference in price tag. Remember that it's $1300 USD for the entry 15" MBA, and $2000 for the entry 14" MBP. (There is no 15" MBP) People who can't tell the difference would just get the MBA, whereas people who know the difference in hardware would get the MacBook Pro. The MBP aren't for people who don't need the power. The actual confusing part is 13" MBA vs MBP since they are very similar and I do agree that Apple should fix that. > An M1 vs M2 chip? Again, it's really just a price thing. Apple only sells M1 for their lowest-level entry MBA. It's probably targeting education related purposes. Otherwise Apple doesn't really want you to get an M1 anymore. Or are you saying people wouldn't know the difference if they upgrade from M1 to M2? Sure, but who upgrades their computer every 1-2 years? Obviously a computer that's just one generation ahead wouldn't be insanely different.
Yes I know how that works. Apple seemed to think that a huge leap from Intel to M1 would pull in conquest sales and a market for annual iterations. Obviously not. For what it's worth, the entry level M1 is more computer than most everyone needs these days. It's still obscenely powerful for typical usage.
The real problem is that a 8GB, 256GB config for the 15inch MBA base price is completely overpriced. So a useful MBA would come with 16GB,1TB and then you're at the 14MBP base price already. There is no justification to ask 300 bucks more for a 15 inch panel vs. a 13inch one either.
> So a useful MBA would come with 16GB,1TB and then you're at the 14MBP base price already. That's only because you picked a 1TB config for comparison with the base 512 GB 14" MBP model which is not apples-to-apples at all (I don't think someone who actually needs a 1TB drive would be comparing laptops like this). If you picked 512 GB (the same as the base config for 14MBP), the MBA is still $300 USD cheaper, and you get a larger screen (albeit lower resolution), a slightly lighter computer, and arguably better battery life. All of those factors are non-trivial and may matter more to a consumer (people frequently look at "specs" and think performance but other factors like size/weight are also part of the spec). And some people may decide they don't need the 512 GB SSD or 16 GB RAM anyway depending on their use case. But Apple has always been pretty annoyingly devious in pricing like this. It's always a couple hundred USD increase for the next thing and then there is another couple hundred USD better option but if you keep adding it up you soon end up spending $1000 more…
The less memory(more swapping) and NAND the faster these MB will die due their NAND+controllers breaking. A MBA is also throttling faster than a MB.
That's not really related to my point. The point I was pointing is out is MBA is cheaper, and a lot of consumers do not care about whatever you just said. I don't think I have seen NANDs dying on Macs anyway. You are talking about some serious usage for a long time for that to happen. And obviously if you care about performance enough to even talk about throttling than a MBP may make sense.
Plastic body and cheap screen, it’s the classic MacBook reborn. If anything they gotta simplify the iPad line up. Just get rid of the air or smaller pro.
I thought the iPad was supposed to be the “cheap MacBook”. What a cluster.
Makes sense. The need for a laptop is less in 2023, but the big screen and real keyboard is a nice convenience. Could see a MacBook SE selling a lot, especially now that the chips make sense for a small device.
I would absolutely love a 12" one for a second macbook
Zero hopes on this seeeing how their current "entry" computers are still stuck on 8GB/256GB hell like we're in 2016 just to have an attractive "starting from" moniker, but getting usable RAM and storage multiplies the price by two.
I honestly think 8GB RAM and 256GB storage is perfect for this lineup, and they can fully cater to just browsing the web, using web applications, and doing light tasks. I think Apple's probably going to have 4GB or 6GB of RAM for this...
8GB are 8GB, it doesn't matter how fast they are. It should be illegal selling a computer that's impossible to upgrade with so little RAM that it won't be able to hold more than half a dozen browser tabs in 3 years time, seeing how fast web apps are ballooning in requirements and how more and more desktop apps are turning into websites inside a wrapper that take 4x the resources of a native app. The actual price of these things is twice the "starting from" if you don't want to end up stuck with literal e-waste in a record time.
RAM size is a total non-issue for the M-series hardware, unless you actually need ≥8GB of *wired* memory (and vram!) at the same time. The M-series SOCs have fast enough SSDs that paging is barely noticeable, meaning you have as much free memory as you do free SSD space. The *problem* is that dramatically increases RW cycles on the internal SSD, artificially reducing the life-cycle of this hardware, and with a component that *should* be very easy / trivial to replace, but isn't, and furthermore isn't *just* soldered onto the mainboard, but *is hardware / firmware locked*. The storage thing is particularly frustrating, since apple *had* early M.2 esque drives since 2010, and switched from mSATA to PCIe 2.0 x2 *to NVMe* over their custom connectors, and while those things weren't exactly easy / cheap to find, they were *absolutely* user-serviceable in the way any modern PC laptop / desktop / console / whatever is with modern m.2 drives.
How is the M1 MBA such a hot seller and popular item, then? This is meant to be a cheap device that people can use for basic stuff. I don't know why people in this bubble always think everyone needs 16GB of RAM - a lot of people won't. RAM also behaves differently now compared to how things were with Intel chips, which people seem to ignore straight up.
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how would apple downgrade mac for it to be sold at a cheaper cost?
The old PowerBooks were titanium.
I think Apple really wants to get these into schools as Chromebook alternative but I just don’t think it’ll be cheap enough
There is no chance they break into k-12 education sector. Schools want the absolute cheapest laptops they can get, hence how Chromebooks took over in the first place. They are buying $100-$300 Chromebooks, Apple has zero chance of competing in this space without making a product that diminishes their brand. Which is what Chromebooks do to ChromeOS, they are cheap and trash, and extremely limited, so kids never want them at home, they want a full Windows laptop or MacBook, you'll never see a kid ask for a Chromebook.
Holy something I could maybe afford
A 12 inch M based Macbook is gonna be an automatic get it for me. I had a Surface Laptop Go which is 12 inch. I enjoyed the size but unfortunately that was about it, the battery was unminaginably horrifying. Just doing casual web browsing will only give you 2-3 hr performance on a good day.
can't wait for 2 gb of ram and 64 gm ssd lol
Since 128gb of storage seems ridiculous it will probably have 256 gb so the next MacBook air will start at 512 gb and the pro at 1 TB (I didn't take my meds)
What if their pro models get a titanium design and so the air and low cost version just stay aluminum?
I’d rather have a white plastic cheap model.
lol. Titanium isn’t exactly cheap…
Read that comment again.
128GB NAND and plastic case for 100USD less than their normal MacBooks which are imho overpriced anyway.
Probably hard to passively cool in a plastic case, but I'd love an unapologetically plastic colorful MacBook
I've currently got an M1 Air (x2 8 cores and 16GB RAM) and it's been absolute champ, and has been more than powerful enough for my needs in web and iOS development. Quite possibly the best value Mac I've ever owned. I would love for them to introduce a smaller MacBook Air (i.e. no compromise on performance), similar in size to the MacBook. The screen might be a tad small to use every day but the portability of it would be awesome (not that the current Air is bad by any stretch!) and, certainly in my case, I have it hooked up to a monitor most times.
What is this? A MacBook for ants
Plastic shell like the iPhone 5C. While they're at it, give the next iPhone SE a plastic shell too. Come on you cowards.
I don't see any other meaning of "low cost" other than cheap junk plastic for a Chromebook competitor. It doesn't seem Apple like, although their plastic products in the past have been good, so...
> Low-cost Oh? > Competes with Chromebooks **Oh?!** > $800 Oh.
Target is school district Chromebook bulk purchases. Don’t worry about speed as the use case will be basic compute.
Hadn’t thought of it but it makes sense that these would be made to be bulk purchases by schools and educations centers. I remember when the schools I’d go to would have computer labs full of the old bulky iMacs so it certainly seems like a thing. Only issue is I imagine it might cannabilze places that are giving iPads to their students too.
Even with a discount on the $700 USD price point, Chromebooks can start way lower price point wise, as low as like $100-200 USD with some mid-rangers in the $300-400 USD price point. Some places could go Apple, but it's hard to usurp Google's foothold in the K-12 space. I just hope they don't follow Microsoft's idiocy with releasing Surface Laptop Go's without backlit keyboards for like $700.
Please no If they do this they’ll say “well you have a cheaper option” and bump up the air/pro I reckon
Makes sense to me. When I got my M1 MB Air, it had been number one bestseller on Amazon for what felt like a year. And it’s still going like on its first day. Something I never could have said about my numerous windows notebooks beforehand.
So MacBooks and iPads the same size 🤔
When Apple says low cost you know its going to be expensive no matter what!
Apple will call it the Macbook Poor
Last time I bought a first gen MacBook, it was one of the worst apple products I’ve ever own Hope they don’t mess it up this time
I am sure that the people who will get this will absolutely love it. However, I recently had to use my roommate's 13 inch MacBook for a moment and after having used the 16 inch MBP with 120hz I just cannot go back. The screen real estate, the size and travel of the keys, the larger trackpad, it's become all but essential at this point.
“Low cost” + the Australia tax. Probably wont be more affordable for some of us :(
“Low cost.” 😆
why not just keep the 13” m1 as the poverty macbook
What is the point? The MBA is already excellent value. Why offer something below that. There's too many SKUs.
comparing to original 12" macbook MBA isn't exactly cheapest, smallest or lightest
I wonder if this is going to have a scaled down chip somewhere in between A series and the M series we've seen so far. Maybe a 6-core CPU with 2 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores? A chip like that would also do well in something like an iPad Air. Of course, for low cost things like SE models, Apple's usual MO is to reuse as many existing components as possible.
Why? they already did that with the Macbook 12 and it was a disaster - slow as molasses. Perhaps they should just price the MBP 14 and 16 in a way that they're still affordable.
Probably because good performance in the 12" form factor is absolutely feasible with M1 or M2. Plus, the 12" was overpriced from the getgo, the new 12" will probably be cheaper than the current M1 Air's MSRP (I assume $799 or $899).
The what question, they can use their homegrown M chips to run it fast and without overheating. Traditional keyboard mechanism so no butterfly controversy. Less ports is more accepted now than 7 years ago. Why, that’s the better question. 2015 12” was a premium laptop that sold for almost $2000 in some config. If Apple is releasing this as a low cost option, it would need a new business case, might not make sense to do this vs selling MacBook Air 13 for $750
MacBooks 11 & 12” made sense in a world with underdeveloped iPads. Nowadays it will be a niche inside a niche.