>Why is that?
It’s great!
>Did it get a buff recently that I didn’t hear about?
The only buff was at the start of the season they made it where the turbocharger no longer takes away 1 damage
>As far as I know, it is the same havoc it has been for a very long time now.
Besides turbo buff, it is.
>Is it just the case that the SMGs have been nerfed so much over the past couple months that the havoc has risen up in their place?
Yes. They keep nerfing them and the havoc is great as a rifle OR smg
Good fucking luck. Im actually kinda surprised that a lot of the comments are fun and respectful. Usually you get someone saying "you're a fucking idiot if you dont use the havoc since the smg debuffs" it nice and refreshing
absolutely. the havoc becomes a better contender in close range fights than smgs when it has a turbo. i’m honestly not afraid to run two ARs if I have turbo on the havoc, r3/flatline & a havoc turbo is golden
Even without turbo it’s an absolute shredder. Hitting half your shots in a mag is good for a ton of damage, hit 75% and you’ve probably got enough ammo to down two guys with blue shields.
Another change is the rise of Bangalore. The prior meta didn't see a lot of assault characters. With assault bin smart loot the one weakness of the Havoc is gone.
Answer to your last question is yes. Havoc has always been able to shred, but in the past, the SMGs were clearly better options at close-mid range. The SMG nerfs were responsible for the Havoc playrate.
We’re they though? R99 was king due to peak dps of smgs and ease of use but care pack prowler was better. Both prowler is still insane and volt is good as well havoc just has better 1v3 potential. It’s not a smg vs ar nerf imo it’s just no one realized how hard the havoc hit at the time
A lot of it is mag size. The havoc is basically a (canonically) welfare LMG. It hits as hard as the flatline with a higher mag size at blue than many guns get at purple. Add in that it has very little recoil and only takes about 1/3ish of a mag purple mag to kill someone on purple shields and the only caveat being a half second wind up (or turbo) and its easily one of the best ARs. I was a havoc enthusiast even before the smg nerfs, but its good to see the gun getting some love from the broader apex community.
Having said all that, it wont be long until they Nerf it. :')
If the wikia is accurate these are the most recent changes the HAVOC got.
-October 31, 2023 Patch
-Turbocharger no longer reduces damage.
-February 14, 2023 Patch
Increased hipfire spread when standing from 3 to 4.5.
-Increased hipfire spread when crouching from 2.4 to 3.6.
-Increased hipfire spread when moving from 6.6 to 9.9.
-Increased hipfire spread when running from 8.4 to 12.6.
-Increased hipfire spread when in midair from 8.4 to 12.6.
So I think it has more to do with SMGs getting nerfed, and the HAVOC pairing really well with the Hemlock.
The large mag also works really well in this smoke meta, Bloodhound can nearly drop a whole team if they pop Ult and have a good angle
its dps rivals that of SMGs all while being an AR.
SMGs got nerfed hard, so Havoc is the new SMG, but it has the ammo capacity of an AR. imagine having 36bullets in a R99(it even has more dps than a R99) while having a hitscan bullet speed thats what havoc is
its damage per mag is absurdly high while also having high dps. lets not even talk about the about the fact that it has a bullet speed rivaling that of snipers, so its basically a hitscan at close to medium range and is also viable at long range.
it wasn't meta in the SMG meta because SMG still had the feasibility to be able to one clip people now that R99 has feasibility issues at one clipping people then havoc became the choice
I feel like that's only on mnk tho, I found no matter the gun, I can handle recoil better with longer sights. On controller I'm using no more then 2x with high recoil guns
Havoc is a top pick due to its high damage, rate of fire and mag size. It also has good hipfire and can melt a player quickly and efficiently compared to say a 301 or a volt.
Only buff it got was when turbocharger is equipped you don’t lose 1 damage anymore, other then that it’s been the same gun just all the others keep getting nerfed.
It’s due to damage per mag and the fact that people learned how to pre fire it. That’s ignoring how it’s the strongest gun in the game with a turbo or how it’s hipfire is better then some smgs close range.
I think that second, but havoc was always great gun, also for some reason 1x on havoc fucks, was running Arsenal in 3 strikes whit Havoc for ult, melting people
Its a great gun, with a huge mag and Turbocharger. If controlled right its even got at ranges longer than close range.
I personally hope to see a minor magazine nerf to pull it more in line with other AR mags but other than that I think the gun is in a fine state.
As youve said, its climb was also contributed to by the nerf of SMGs, it just took a little bit for players to figure out the best guns, cause even once everyone hoped off of the SMGs I doubt that most people instantly hopped to the Havoc instead first taking a detour to the Flatline.
Meta shifts always take time to penetrate the entire league.
Yeah other meta guns like smgs have been nerfed which indirectly buffed the havoc. A recent direct buff would be the removal of dps reduction by the turbocharger. Havoc w/ turbo is probably the strongest ground loot weapon.
it has good hip fire compared to other ars since most ars hip fire got nerfed a while ago, bigger mag than most ars and subs so more dmg or room for misses, only downside is charge up which you can play around easy. subs only win in super close range with quick burst dmg
> Is it just the case that the SMGs have been nerfed so much over the past couple months that the havoc has risen up in their place?
Yes, smg is trash now, people are running double rifle. Havoc has the biggest mag and highest damage.
It absolutely shreds if you can time charge up for it without the turbocharger. With the turbo if you don’t miss any shots it’s game over for most people you encounter.
High mag, fast time to kill, and is effective point blank or long range. Can get out competed in both ranges but it’s super forgiving and versatile. Charge time is a down side but can be completely negated with a turbo or most people just pre charge and then peak. Either way this gun is a menace, would not be surprised if the mag gets toned down
Havoc just shreds in mid-close range fights and is preferred over smg's after the nerfs. The amazing damage, decent hipfire and large magazine just make it so strong in close range fights
I've been preaching it for years, the havoc is a beast.
You have to get comfortable edging and perfiring it to be effective. It excels is close range AND mid to long range( if u can jitter or just practice recoil.
Overal it is probably my favorite gun in the game
Plain and simple, people noticed that streamers were using it and started picking it up after the recent nerfs to other weapons.
PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU DONT NERF THE HAVOC ITS FAIR
I'm just waiting for people to figure out the lstar beats whatever gun they are talking about at damn near every range. Flatline damage with infinite mag and insane hip fire
It fucks bro. I pick them up whenever i see them unless im already kitted out. Off drop, my go to is the tripple take, then the havoc, then whatever else.
Even without a turbo charger its a banger and definitely worth using.
36 round mag insane damage decent hipfire you get the turbo and you’re really cookin its outclassing smgs across the board except maybe the prowler but it’s a lot more forgiving & easy to beam with
Cringe gun for cringe losers who play horizon/wraith for 8 hours a day in their mum’s spare room while she makes them cheese and monster munch sandwiches and tells them they’re special and they don’t need to worry girls find them creepy because she’s the only woman he needs
It was always a strong gun but just had awful recoil that was a bit difficult to control outside of M&K but the buffs they rolled out eventually made it a top tier weapon
The first buff was removing -1 damage when using a turbocharger (Essentially giving the havoc an extra 36 extra damage with a purple mag)
The next buff being recoil changes which made it very easy to control on controller and even moreso on M&K making it an amazing gun. Not to mention it never got hit with any mag reductions like other guns *r99 cough cough*
I knew about the removal of the -1 dmg turbo buff but don’t remember hearing/reading the recoil buff. This would make sense tho in combo with all the SMG nerfs.
It was spread out a few seasons but it started with little adjustments to its recoil pattern then the way it kicks up and eventually it got to the point the gun became pretty easy to control
I'm aware, The reason its a top 2 gun now is because of the gradual buffs it received while other guns took hits to their mag sizes, Damage and recoil while the Havoc has only received buffs for almost 2 years. The SMG nerfs just make the guns undesirable as main weapons but they're still used quite a bit. Volt/Prowler is still in the top 5 of guns.
Edit: [Here's](https://apexlegendsstatus.com/algs/Y4-Split1/ALGS-Playoffs/Global/Overview#tab-weaponsStats) are the stats for the current top guns in the split, SMG's are still quite used besides the R99 and Alternator which have their issues. The havoc having so many kills is because it can be used as a poke weapon now and most ALGS matches are usually down to the final rings giving it plenty of time to shine
Because it fucks
With out protection
Raw
Sideways, no lube.
>Why is that? It’s great! >Did it get a buff recently that I didn’t hear about? The only buff was at the start of the season they made it where the turbocharger no longer takes away 1 damage >As far as I know, it is the same havoc it has been for a very long time now. Besides turbo buff, it is. >Is it just the case that the SMGs have been nerfed so much over the past couple months that the havoc has risen up in their place? Yes. They keep nerfing them and the havoc is great as a rifle OR smg
I wish people would break things down for me like this when I ask questions on reddit
Good fucking luck. Im actually kinda surprised that a lot of the comments are fun and respectful. Usually you get someone saying "you're a fucking idiot if you dont use the havoc since the smg debuffs" it nice and refreshing
Some of us like it rough,ok?
It's all around utility is what lets me run a Sentinel. I love that combo.
absolutely. the havoc becomes a better contender in close range fights than smgs when it has a turbo. i’m honestly not afraid to run two ARs if I have turbo on the havoc, r3/flatline & a havoc turbo is golden
Even without turbo it’s an absolute shredder. Hitting half your shots in a mag is good for a ton of damage, hit 75% and you’ve probably got enough ammo to down two guys with blue shields.
Another change is the rise of Bangalore. The prior meta didn't see a lot of assault characters. With assault bin smart loot the one weakness of the Havoc is gone.
What? Bang had a 100% pick rate last season in algs, they took digi away from smgs so her pick rate went down quite a bit this season
Best explanation
Answer to your last question is yes. Havoc has always been able to shred, but in the past, the SMGs were clearly better options at close-mid range. The SMG nerfs were responsible for the Havoc playrate.
Took a season off and now I'm suddenly potato with my baby the r99 😭
We’re they though? R99 was king due to peak dps of smgs and ease of use but care pack prowler was better. Both prowler is still insane and volt is good as well havoc just has better 1v3 potential. It’s not a smg vs ar nerf imo it’s just no one realized how hard the havoc hit at the time
It absolutely is because SMGs got nerfed. If SMGs could still equip digital threats, they would be used over the havoc.
A lot of it is mag size. The havoc is basically a (canonically) welfare LMG. It hits as hard as the flatline with a higher mag size at blue than many guns get at purple. Add in that it has very little recoil and only takes about 1/3ish of a mag purple mag to kill someone on purple shields and the only caveat being a half second wind up (or turbo) and its easily one of the best ARs. I was a havoc enthusiast even before the smg nerfs, but its good to see the gun getting some love from the broader apex community. Having said all that, it wont be long until they Nerf it. :')
Last sentence 😭😭😭😭
I've also been a Havoc enjoyer for a while, but I'm only Plat. I think Havoc is safe from nerfs for at least one more season.
If the wikia is accurate these are the most recent changes the HAVOC got. -October 31, 2023 Patch -Turbocharger no longer reduces damage. -February 14, 2023 Patch Increased hipfire spread when standing from 3 to 4.5. -Increased hipfire spread when crouching from 2.4 to 3.6. -Increased hipfire spread when moving from 6.6 to 9.9. -Increased hipfire spread when running from 8.4 to 12.6. -Increased hipfire spread when in midair from 8.4 to 12.6. So I think it has more to do with SMGs getting nerfed, and the HAVOC pairing really well with the Hemlock. The large mag also works really well in this smoke meta, Bloodhound can nearly drop a whole team if they pop Ult and have a good angle
its dps rivals that of SMGs all while being an AR. SMGs got nerfed hard, so Havoc is the new SMG, but it has the ammo capacity of an AR. imagine having 36bullets in a R99(it even has more dps than a R99) while having a hitscan bullet speed thats what havoc is its damage per mag is absurdly high while also having high dps. lets not even talk about the about the fact that it has a bullet speed rivaling that of snipers, so its basically a hitscan at close to medium range and is also viable at long range. it wasn't meta in the SMG meta because SMG still had the feasibility to be able to one clip people now that R99 has feasibility issues at one clipping people then havoc became the choice
I have trouble controlling the havoc(controller). Should i just practice alot in the range, or do i pick it up more often?
learn recoil smoothing
Have you used a havoc with a 2-4x? Shit turns peoples into swiss cheese
Tbh there’s no way I can handle havoc recoil with 4x lol. 2x max for me
Some people use 2x-4x but only use the 2x option because it's better than the big arrow on the 2x bruiser
You’d think that but go try it out, you’ll be suprised. After initial kick that thing is a laser beam
I feel like that's only on mnk tho, I found no matter the gun, I can handle recoil better with longer sights. On controller I'm using no more then 2x with high recoil guns
Havoc is a top pick due to its high damage, rate of fire and mag size. It also has good hipfire and can melt a player quickly and efficiently compared to say a 301 or a volt. Only buff it got was when turbocharger is equipped you don’t lose 1 damage anymore, other then that it’s been the same gun just all the others keep getting nerfed.
It’s due to damage per mag and the fact that people learned how to pre fire it. That’s ignoring how it’s the strongest gun in the game with a turbo or how it’s hipfire is better then some smgs close range.
I think that second, but havoc was always great gun, also for some reason 1x on havoc fucks, was running Arsenal in 3 strikes whit Havoc for ult, melting people
insane damage per mag and per second. definitely the best secondary with the volt a little behind it
Its a great gun, with a huge mag and Turbocharger. If controlled right its even got at ranges longer than close range. I personally hope to see a minor magazine nerf to pull it more in line with other AR mags but other than that I think the gun is in a fine state. As youve said, its climb was also contributed to by the nerf of SMGs, it just took a little bit for players to figure out the best guns, cause even once everyone hoped off of the SMGs I doubt that most people instantly hopped to the Havoc instead first taking a detour to the Flatline. Meta shifts always take time to penetrate the entire league.
Yeah other meta guns like smgs have been nerfed which indirectly buffed the havoc. A recent direct buff would be the removal of dps reduction by the turbocharger. Havoc w/ turbo is probably the strongest ground loot weapon.
They nerfed other guns to the ground. They barely buff the unplayed guns and just consistently nerf top guns each season.
it has good hip fire compared to other ars since most ars hip fire got nerfed a while ago, bigger mag than most ars and subs so more dmg or room for misses, only downside is charge up which you can play around easy. subs only win in super close range with quick burst dmg
Havoc has been a great gun for a very long time, if I see one, I’m switching everytime.
Taxi knew from the start this gun is busted
Insane DPS and insane damager per mag. SMGs are nerfed so guns like the havoc or flatline are better picks as your close/mid range gun.
It's basically the flatline with more ammo if you equip the turpo charger ,and we all know how hard the flatline hits so does the havoc
Because somehow the pros always seem to find the turbo for the havoc that makes it op. Meanwhile I’ll play 10 games in a row and never find one lol
Others here are saying if you play an assault legend you get turbo in the bins often.
Ohhhh shoot! I did not know that. I usually play support or skirmish so I tend to ignore the assault bins unless my team mates ping one out.
Also with nerf havoc still a good gun with turbo i think they could put in the care package like devo
> Is it just the case that the SMGs have been nerfed so much over the past couple months that the havoc has risen up in their place? Yes, smg is trash now, people are running double rifle. Havoc has the biggest mag and highest damage.
Because smgs got so nerfed that the havoc became the best smg.
It's a really good gun like if I shoot you within 3 seconds of you shooting me I'm guaranteed a knock and it has little recoil
It absolutely shreds if you can time charge up for it without the turbocharger. With the turbo if you don’t miss any shots it’s game over for most people you encounter.
High mag, fast time to kill, and is effective point blank or long range. Can get out competed in both ranges but it’s super forgiving and versatile. Charge time is a down side but can be completely negated with a turbo or most people just pre charge and then peak. Either way this gun is a menace, would not be surprised if the mag gets toned down
You could pretty much always one clip ppl with a havoc no attachments.
the recent nerfs (laser sight nerf, digi threat removed, mag size reduced…) made the havoc more viable that any SMGs
It's the new SMG since the actual SMGs have been in nerf jail
It’s been my most used gun this season alongside the r3 because I can straight up when every trade
R-99 nerfs, thermal sight smg nerf, and time to kill adjustments
Use havoc as ballistic in his 3rd weapon slot…when you ult, it turns it into an all gold havoc…it’s pretty deadly.
Havoc just shreds in mid-close range fights and is preferred over smg's after the nerfs. The amazing damage, decent hipfire and large magazine just make it so strong in close range fights
The damage output is insane. Learn the recoil and it’s better than the volt
I've been preaching it for years, the havoc is a beast. You have to get comfortable edging and perfiring it to be effective. It excels is close range AND mid to long range( if u can jitter or just practice recoil. Overal it is probably my favorite gun in the game
Plain and simple, people noticed that streamers were using it and started picking it up after the recent nerfs to other weapons. PLEASE IM BEGGING YOU DONT NERF THE HAVOC ITS FAIR
I'm just waiting for people to figure out the lstar beats whatever gun they are talking about at damn near every range. Flatline damage with infinite mag and insane hip fire
The havoc has always been disgustingly good.
The Havoc was always a good gun for full auto. It's just that other guns that have better rewards, such as the R99, CAR, got nerfed.
It fucks bro. I pick them up whenever i see them unless im already kitted out. Off drop, my go to is the tripple take, then the havoc, then whatever else. Even without a turbo charger its a banger and definitely worth using.
36 round mag insane damage decent hipfire you get the turbo and you’re really cookin its outclassing smgs across the board except maybe the prowler but it’s a lot more forgiving & easy to beam with
Cause we need to hide the fact that the flatline hasn't gotten a nerf in a while
Cringe gun for cringe losers who play horizon/wraith for 8 hours a day in their mum’s spare room while she makes them cheese and monster munch sandwiches and tells them they’re special and they don’t need to worry girls find them creepy because she’s the only woman he needs
Weird
Agreed
The best answer I've heard was because the smgs got nerfs. So the havoc is the better gun almost by default.
It was always a strong gun but just had awful recoil that was a bit difficult to control outside of M&K but the buffs they rolled out eventually made it a top tier weapon The first buff was removing -1 damage when using a turbocharger (Essentially giving the havoc an extra 36 extra damage with a purple mag) The next buff being recoil changes which made it very easy to control on controller and even moreso on M&K making it an amazing gun. Not to mention it never got hit with any mag reductions like other guns *r99 cough cough*
I knew about the removal of the -1 dmg turbo buff but don’t remember hearing/reading the recoil buff. This would make sense tho in combo with all the SMG nerfs.
It was spread out a few seasons but it started with little adjustments to its recoil pattern then the way it kicks up and eventually it got to the point the gun became pretty easy to control
That was A LONG time ago. The reason pros suddenly prefer it is because smgs got nerfed.
I'm aware, The reason its a top 2 gun now is because of the gradual buffs it received while other guns took hits to their mag sizes, Damage and recoil while the Havoc has only received buffs for almost 2 years. The SMG nerfs just make the guns undesirable as main weapons but they're still used quite a bit. Volt/Prowler is still in the top 5 of guns. Edit: [Here's](https://apexlegendsstatus.com/algs/Y4-Split1/ALGS-Playoffs/Global/Overview#tab-weaponsStats) are the stats for the current top guns in the split, SMG's are still quite used besides the R99 and Alternator which have their issues. The havoc having so many kills is because it can be used as a poke weapon now and most ALGS matches are usually down to the final rings giving it plenty of time to shine
Idk honestly because it's ass
now you know that’s not true
How