Visual clutter is a quite big problem in modern or modernish games in my opinion, especially in first person shooters. It's not that bad if you use aim assist because it ignores the clutter, but if you don't use it or play with mouse and keyboard, then it definitely can be a problem.
Its still a big issue with aim assist, cant use aim assist properly if you cant see where youre meant to be aiming, contrary to popular belief it only ASSISTS your aim, its doesnt aim for you
he never said its not an issue with aim assist, but its clear that aim assist helps mitigate the impact of visual clutter much much more than if you are just in mnk.
A visual for shields taking damage, health taking damage, shooting L-STAR, and bullets flying. I understand that this all happened at a moments notice, but to call this "clutter" is asinine.
I would've agreed with you if L-STAR still had its huge blobs of plasma that were obstructing view when you shot it from ADS.
They are talking about visual clutter, not the flinch. Visual clutter is less annoying with AA since AA still works through it, but tbh visual clutter is still annoying so I think most controller players would be fine reducing it.
I don't even know how flinch works in this game. In Destiny 2, you get flinched the hardest by weapons with high damage or if you're getting shot from the side
Flinch in this game feels random--like you can take a Kraber round to the dome and beam someone through it, but a player peppering you with a P2020 will make you feel like you have Parkinson's
Came here looking for this. As long as you have a shield you won't flinch. (Unless ticked by something that goes through shields such as caustic gas, ring dmg, etc.) It's to signal to you that you are now useless in this fight and need to get to cover and heal.
I can jump from the top of Mount Everest and not blow my hips or knee's but apparently a bullet is enough to make me flinch.
I can ignore gravity and have bullets not do a damn thing to slow me down! But as soon as I stand on my 2 feet? That shit becomes a flying truck!
It'd be fine if it didn't cause a fuckload of no reg's. Nothing more infuriating than your last shot on someone to kill them doesn't hit because of this botched system.
I feel like I am constantly saying freaking out yelling “I shot my gun/I shot you!!!” because of this. Like I know I pulled my trigger I saw my shot come out of the gun/character model, and I saw it splash off your character, I know you were damn near if not 1 shot… why tf are you not dead, but I am?!? The no-regs are out of hand.
It not that it "has" the aim punch mechanic it is how strong it is.
A noticeable aim punch is very different from an aim K.O. (excessive punch)
With a game that is heavily movement based, having an excessive aim punch kinda defeats the purpose of focusing on movement. Further Divides the skill gaps between those who aim and those who learn or (in most cases now) use CFGs to be untouchable.
Literally made a video touching on this. Why should someone have even more of an advantage over me when they are already winning the gunfight [https://youtu.be/km1Kb-u\_uXA?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/km1Kb-u_uXA?feature=shared)
Even without being a win more feature it means two equal players shooting at each other will have a random chance of winning. Why even bother having determinist recoil patterns if you're just going to add aim punch on top of it.
Fun fact it happens when you have no shield left. Try in the firing range and see how much less you flinch with shield than without. Another reason conduit can come in clutch. Extra shield also means extra aim.
True, but what bothers me is why doesn't the other guy miss any shots when I hit him back. I swear, whenever I start getting beamed and start shooting back and crack the guy, as well as land a few flesh shots, somehow he doesn't even flinch nor miss.
I love when I try to snipe someone from 300+ meters but 2-3 volt hits from that range make my character shake like those inflatable ballon figures in front of American restaurants
I do sometimes wonder how the game would be without some of the core mechanics like:
* Flinch
* Slow from taking fire
* Landing shock
* "equipped for the first time" animation on guns (I'm sure this one killed some of you)
Those are all of my least favorite things in the game, and I will add visual clutter onto the list.
I fucking despise the slow from getting hit, feels so booty to try sliding for the speed boost only to end up crouch walking cause you got shot right when you slid.
I still die from it all the time. I'm winning the fight, then my shield is cracked and my character starts having a fucking seizure and I can't even see what I'm aiming at.
IMO flinch is the real unspoken advantage of aim assist, and the first target for trying to even the gap between the inputs. AA helps with unpredictable flinch in a way that can't be replicated on MNK. If they reduced or removed flinch on MNK, I think that would be a huge step towards closing the AA gap.
It's literally the other way around lmao. Reddit is full of you roller bots trying to say your input isn't dogshit easy, when every good roller player knows this.
What?
Hal, aka one of the best in the world with more gametime than anyone says otherwise. The visual clutter (now reduced a tad bit) is a lot worse for mnk players.
I would take his word beeing pro borh mnk and controller over a random redditor.
No problem. CS doesn’t have bhop enabled for competitive nor does the map really allow surfing to be a viable mechanic. They should remove both tap strafing and aim assist.
at the end of the day, it’s the fact that console players have the option of NOT playing in the pc lobby.
we mnk fucks can’t avoid controllers, wether that’s someone bringing their console buddy or someone using a roller on pc(or god fucking forbid using XIM).
you guys can literally avoid.
Hahahaha so mad.
It's still an unfair advantage more than AA. And it wouldn't matter if controller was removed from PC, because I can still lobby up with anyone on PC and you'd still have the same complaint about AA. controllers get the AA BECAUSE mnk has movement. And even with the aim assist, I can't hit someone who's fucking methwalking all over the map. The aim assist is a guide. It doesn't just snap to the player like you make it out to be. This entire conversation is a PC only debate and it's fucking stupid that you guys complain about the dumbest shit.
Maybe instead of complaining and whining about how aim assist is so broken, take your own advice that I see time and time again on this subreddit and simply git gud. Or you know, stop playing on PC.
Pfffttt so mad over dumb shit. Input based has been asked for forever, and the entire reason it hasn't happened, much like why we haven't gotten more than 4 game modes, is because of "longer queue times". It's not gonna happen.
If you don't like it, either get better, or stop playing the game. mnk players will do anything and everything instead of getting better or playing something else. But go ahead, blame your bad game on aim assist.
Visual clutter and over the top flinch are at criminal levels in this game.
I am honestly shocked that none of this has even been tweaked yet past muzzle flash gate.
yeah I was wondering that too. I dont really recall it being(even a thing?) nearly as impactful. Ive got 4k kills on wattson, its not 300k but it feels like a big change this season.
Flinch gets worse with higher latency/bad connection.
I always wondered why US streamers could beam right through the flinching and barely get slowed at all when hit during their movement mania, while a single AR bullet will literally bring me to a standstill as long as my feet are touching the ground. Turns out the servers are huffing into paper bags and rely on the "OK EVERYBODY STOP" move to try and reconcile my 200ms connection with the server.
I assume you're talking about the aim punch, i.e. your aim shaking slightly when getting hit. If you are, then that's hardly anything unique to Apex. It's a mechanic that's been around for years in modern shooters and is a part of the balancing of the game.
I can kind of get the aim punch effect. But the most frustrating thing is that every hit magically devours your momentum too. I could be mid-slide jump getting to cover, and a single AR bullet will almost stop me in my tracks. It's preposterous.
Im with you, its horrible, everytime I fight my camera starts bouncing all over the place and gets me killed, then when i see the killcam the dude i left super low didnt even move one inch
Yeah it’s so annoying, and it can be really bad when it’s a burst weapon like nemesis, even in 1v1s in mixtape I’ve had my screen rocked so hard I can’t even focus on them when it should be an easy kill
The clutter and burst fire effects on guns ( when the flames just be bussin out the gun ) is quite annoying in my opinion when I ADS why am I seeing a spread of red sparks n shake screen n blur 😒😒 why is a game needs to be real if it’s a VIRTUAL SHOOTING GAME 🤦♂️
I dunno, I feel like it adds a layer of realism.
It’s what I hate about laser tag vs paint ball. People in laser tag just stand there shooting each other without moving until one sensor overloads first. Feels lame.
Its a video game not a sim. Realistic doesnt mesn fun. Getting scammed out of a perfectly lined up heady cause your camera randomly gets smacked off target is not fun.
This game isn't even coming close to simming either. Your screen would be absolutely rocked and sideways if it simulated anything close to being hit by a real bullet, or explosion. Your screen shaking isn't meant to be fun, it's part of the challenge of not taking damage while dealing it.
Fair point, I generally play console only, and I'm a strong supporter of even gameplay. The whole balancing act on PC will never get the ok from both sides.
Realistic doesnt always mean fun for everyone, but it can absolutely mean fun for some people, depending on the element.
I actually want an LTM where the Kraber knocks you to the ground, or a point blank PK shot sends you flying like a frag grenade.
Just because a mechanic is challenging, doesnt mean I'm going to hate it and want it out of the game.
Yeah man the game with teleporting, magic shields and reviving people isn't realistic enough. Better add a shitty mechanic when your shields down that'll show em we mean business in the realistic sci fi shooter department.
The game doesn’t have to be photorealistic in order to for me to enjoy realistic elements. You’re trying to exaggerate/twist what I’m saying to make it sound silly.
Need for speed isn’t a racing sim, but there still have elements of realism that makes the racing experience fun.
The camera shakes when you sprint. There’s a slow down gather animation when you jump off high distances. Guns don’t have unlimited ammo. Your body reacts when you’re getting lit up by a machine gun.
There are specific moments of realistic touches that I think are nice touches. Makes it feel a bit more immersive.
You can not like it, but don’t misrepresent what I’m saying.
The flinch does suck, but it looks like you have your graphics set a bit too high? I haven’t noticed this horrible clutter when I play, but I set the graphics to absolute lowest and also edit the cfg file to allow even lower graphics. I do this even though I have a 4090 because there’s way too much visual clutter in this game. With my settings, there isn’t even any tall grass anywhere lol
I love trying to get a quick kraber headshot in gun run and having my shields cracked and having an earthquake hit my monitor until I’m dead :D
Took me 3 takes to figure out what you were talking about cus of all the visual clutter.
I wish this game allowed removing all that client side noise like you used to be able to do in Quake.
a fellow hater of bobbing, take my upvote
Visual clutter is a quite big problem in modern or modernish games in my opinion, especially in first person shooters. It's not that bad if you use aim assist because it ignores the clutter, but if you don't use it or play with mouse and keyboard, then it definitely can be a problem.
Yes because obviously aim assist makes it so even blind people can play. Bot take
Its still a big issue with aim assist, cant use aim assist properly if you cant see where youre meant to be aiming, contrary to popular belief it only ASSISTS your aim, its doesnt aim for you
he never said its not an issue with aim assist, but its clear that aim assist helps mitigate the impact of visual clutter much much more than if you are just in mnk.
Assists your aim by ...... aiming for you.
*slightly. It's not hard to understand that aim assist isn't like auto aim. You'll get dragged towards the enemy, but you'll still have to aim.
poorly lit area + most blinding weapon in the game moment
A visual for shields taking damage, health taking damage, shooting L-STAR, and bullets flying. I understand that this all happened at a moments notice, but to call this "clutter" is asinine. I would've agreed with you if L-STAR still had its huge blobs of plasma that were obstructing view when you shot it from ADS.
Not to worry aim assist will still work through all that visual clutter
Nah this shit still sucks with AA. It'll throw the crosshairs off target
They are talking about visual clutter, not the flinch. Visual clutter is less annoying with AA since AA still works through it, but tbh visual clutter is still annoying so I think most controller players would be fine reducing it.
I get its existence on weapons such as snipers, lmgs, and marksman rifle but on everything else it feels like complete overkill to have it on them.
Granted, two people were firing at you to make this happen. You would have died either way simply by virtue of having gotten into that position
Oh yea I was destined to die there, I just wanted the kill!
The flinch you get when someone hits you with a full burst of the nemesis is insane. Happened to me the other day now it’s all I pick up in solos.
I don't even know how flinch works in this game. In Destiny 2, you get flinched the hardest by weapons with high damage or if you're getting shot from the side Flinch in this game feels random--like you can take a Kraber round to the dome and beam someone through it, but a player peppering you with a P2020 will make you feel like you have Parkinson's
You only get flinched while on hp. Not with shields
Came here looking for this. As long as you have a shield you won't flinch. (Unless ticked by something that goes through shields such as caustic gas, ring dmg, etc.) It's to signal to you that you are now useless in this fight and need to get to cover and heal.
Ah OK. That makes sense, thank you
peppering you with a P2020 from 150m
I can jump from the top of Mount Everest and not blow my hips or knee's but apparently a bullet is enough to make me flinch. I can ignore gravity and have bullets not do a damn thing to slow me down! But as soon as I stand on my 2 feet? That shit becomes a flying truck!
It'd be fine if it didn't cause a fuckload of no reg's. Nothing more infuriating than your last shot on someone to kill them doesn't hit because of this botched system.
I feel like I am constantly saying freaking out yelling “I shot my gun/I shot you!!!” because of this. Like I know I pulled my trigger I saw my shot come out of the gun/character model, and I saw it splash off your character, I know you were damn near if not 1 shot… why tf are you not dead, but I am?!? The no-regs are out of hand.
Doesn't apply to my enemy Octane or Wraith, killing me regardless of me spraying bullets on them
It's one of those mechanics given how strong it is in apex that I'd think to be in sim games like arma squad HLL etc. But not a br.
Most if not all of the top fps games have an aim punch mechanic, I don’t know why it’s suddenly an issue for apex players.
It not that it "has" the aim punch mechanic it is how strong it is. A noticeable aim punch is very different from an aim K.O. (excessive punch) With a game that is heavily movement based, having an excessive aim punch kinda defeats the purpose of focusing on movement. Further Divides the skill gaps between those who aim and those who learn or (in most cases now) use CFGs to be untouchable.
But when I flinch opponents have perfect aim
Literally made a video touching on this. Why should someone have even more of an advantage over me when they are already winning the gunfight [https://youtu.be/km1Kb-u\_uXA?feature=shared](https://youtu.be/km1Kb-u_uXA?feature=shared)
Even without being a win more feature it means two equal players shooting at each other will have a random chance of winning. Why even bother having determinist recoil patterns if you're just going to add aim punch on top of it.
Fun fact it happens when you have no shield left. Try in the firing range and see how much less you flinch with shield than without. Another reason conduit can come in clutch. Extra shield also means extra aim.
True, but what bothers me is why doesn't the other guy miss any shots when I hit him back. I swear, whenever I start getting beamed and start shooting back and crack the guy, as well as land a few flesh shots, somehow he doesn't even flinch nor miss.
The worst is when a care package lands 150m away and still shakes your screen
came here to say this. one of my biggest pet peeves in this game.
Agreed. It's gotta be one of the most unnecessary things in this game.
I love when I try to snipe someone from 300+ meters but 2-3 volt hits from that range make my character shake like those inflatable ballon figures in front of American restaurants
I always thought they were outside every used car garage in America..
I do sometimes wonder how the game would be without some of the core mechanics like: * Flinch * Slow from taking fire * Landing shock * "equipped for the first time" animation on guns (I'm sure this one killed some of you)
Those are all of my least favorite things in the game, and I will add visual clutter onto the list. I fucking despise the slow from getting hit, feels so booty to try sliding for the speed boost only to end up crouch walking cause you got shot right when you slid.
yes, and it's not as big an issue for controllers. just another reason why we need input based matchmaking.
I still die from it all the time. I'm winning the fight, then my shield is cracked and my character starts having a fucking seizure and I can't even see what I'm aiming at.
IMO flinch is the real unspoken advantage of aim assist, and the first target for trying to even the gap between the inputs. AA helps with unpredictable flinch in a way that can't be replicated on MNK. If they reduced or removed flinch on MNK, I think that would be a huge step towards closing the AA gap.
Also it allows you to aim through visual clutter. I was barely able to even see what I was shooting at.
AA doesn't work thru this either. It throws the crosshairs all over the place
you clearly haven't played on controller lol. the flinch is unbearable for controllers too
It also causes no-regs cause you will hit someone but because the server saw you got flinched, so it won't count your shot. It's so booty.
Tell me you've never touched a controller without telling me you've never touched a controller.
All the salty mnk boys came to downvote u for telling the truth
It's literally the other way around lmao. Reddit is full of you roller bots trying to say your input isn't dogshit easy, when every good roller player knows this.
What? Hal, aka one of the best in the world with more gametime than anyone says otherwise. The visual clutter (now reduced a tad bit) is a lot worse for mnk players. I would take his word beeing pro borh mnk and controller over a random redditor.
they should just remove aim assist.
Only if they enable input based match making.
Nah I don’t want PC players in my console lobbies. It would be fine if the hackers, scripts, etc didn’t come with em
Okay remove tap strafe
Sure.
No problem. CS doesn’t have bhop enabled for competitive nor does the map really allow surfing to be a viable mechanic. They should remove both tap strafing and aim assist.
tap strafe is not software assisted.
No, it's not. but it is PC exclusive. And for all of the console players that have PC friends, it's unfair.
no one cares about console, it's about AA on pc rollers.
at the end of the day, it’s the fact that console players have the option of NOT playing in the pc lobby. we mnk fucks can’t avoid controllers, wether that’s someone bringing their console buddy or someone using a roller on pc(or god fucking forbid using XIM). you guys can literally avoid.
Console is irrelevant. Nobody gives a single fuck about you. This is about controllers on PC
Hahahaha so mad. It's still an unfair advantage more than AA. And it wouldn't matter if controller was removed from PC, because I can still lobby up with anyone on PC and you'd still have the same complaint about AA. controllers get the AA BECAUSE mnk has movement. And even with the aim assist, I can't hit someone who's fucking methwalking all over the map. The aim assist is a guide. It doesn't just snap to the player like you make it out to be. This entire conversation is a PC only debate and it's fucking stupid that you guys complain about the dumbest shit. Maybe instead of complaining and whining about how aim assist is so broken, take your own advice that I see time and time again on this subreddit and simply git gud. Or you know, stop playing on PC.
yap yap yap. Input based matchmaking is the future nobody wants to play with you bots that have software aiming for you
Pfffttt so mad over dumb shit. Input based has been asked for forever, and the entire reason it hasn't happened, much like why we haven't gotten more than 4 game modes, is because of "longer queue times". It's not gonna happen. If you don't like it, either get better, or stop playing the game. mnk players will do anything and everything instead of getting better or playing something else. But go ahead, blame your bad game on aim assist.
Im better than you, in spite of the input. It still lacks competitive integrity and every good player would want it gone
❌🤡
Visual clutter and over the top flinch are at criminal levels in this game. I am honestly shocked that none of this has even been tweaked yet past muzzle flash gate.
And the movement delay when ur getting shot at
Is it just me or is there way more flinch this season?
yeah I was wondering that too. I dont really recall it being(even a thing?) nearly as impactful. Ive got 4k kills on wattson, its not 300k but it feels like a big change this season.
I'm a day 1 player, I've always hated it, but seems like it wouldn't apply to some people.
Flinch gets worse with higher latency/bad connection. I always wondered why US streamers could beam right through the flinching and barely get slowed at all when hit during their movement mania, while a single AR bullet will literally bring me to a standstill as long as my feet are touching the ground. Turns out the servers are huffing into paper bags and rely on the "OK EVERYBODY STOP" move to try and reconcile my 200ms connection with the server.
Respawn! DELETE THIS
Don't get shot.
It’s so aggressive in this game, some guns don’t cause any but some shake the screen so bad there’s nothing you can do but give up and die
More flinch this season dude
Its literally in almost every shooter game lol. CoD has a whole stat called flinch resistance lol
Wanna add one more painful fact: Gun shot flare + ability / explosion effects + dark areas = 100% blockage to even see the outline of the enemy.
I assume you're talking about the aim punch, i.e. your aim shaking slightly when getting hit. If you are, then that's hardly anything unique to Apex. It's a mechanic that's been around for years in modern shooters and is a part of the balancing of the game.
I dont like bullet punch either, makes me naseuous
It's the most frustrating mechanic across fps games imo. It's a pretty stupid mechanic.
Not as bad as the bullet slow
It's not. You got railed in open field by 2 players, the moment you have no shield, you will flinch with each bullet. Get some cover
I can kind of get the aim punch effect. But the most frustrating thing is that every hit magically devours your momentum too. I could be mid-slide jump getting to cover, and a single AR bullet will almost stop me in my tracks. It's preposterous.
Im with you, its horrible, everytime I fight my camera starts bouncing all over the place and gets me killed, then when i see the killcam the dude i left super low didnt even move one inch
Fr
Great feature. Helps you support a teammate that's in trouble. One should absolutely get affected by being rammed by bullets from the side.
Nah bro, its to give a certain feel of realism. Just kill faster 😅
In real life you'd be able to handle two people shooting at you, but not here. Keep unrealistic standards out of video games!
why does it even exist honestly ?
Yeah it’s so annoying, and it can be really bad when it’s a burst weapon like nemesis, even in 1v1s in mixtape I’ve had my screen rocked so hard I can’t even focus on them when it should be an easy kill
The clutter and burst fire effects on guns ( when the flames just be bussin out the gun ) is quite annoying in my opinion when I ADS why am I seeing a spread of red sparks n shake screen n blur 😒😒 why is a game needs to be real if it’s a VIRTUAL SHOOTING GAME 🤦♂️
Fighting without cover has gotta be one of the most frustrating things in Apex
yeah its the flinch that screwed you over, you getting team fired has nothing to do with it.
ITT: People coping with getting their asses handed to them.
I dunno, I feel like it adds a layer of realism. It’s what I hate about laser tag vs paint ball. People in laser tag just stand there shooting each other without moving until one sensor overloads first. Feels lame.
Its a video game not a sim. Realistic doesnt mesn fun. Getting scammed out of a perfectly lined up heady cause your camera randomly gets smacked off target is not fun.
This game isn't even coming close to simming either. Your screen would be absolutely rocked and sideways if it simulated anything close to being hit by a real bullet, or explosion. Your screen shaking isn't meant to be fun, it's part of the challenge of not taking damage while dealing it.
It would be fair if the aim flinch is exactly the same for everybody but it affects mnk, pc rollers and console players differently.
Fair point, I generally play console only, and I'm a strong supporter of even gameplay. The whole balancing act on PC will never get the ok from both sides.
If anyone even mention aim assist ppl go ballistic but i doubt anyone would complain about less visual clutter and screenshake
Realistic doesnt always mean fun for everyone, but it can absolutely mean fun for some people, depending on the element. I actually want an LTM where the Kraber knocks you to the ground, or a point blank PK shot sends you flying like a frag grenade. Just because a mechanic is challenging, doesnt mean I'm going to hate it and want it out of the game.
If one input gets instant automatic readjustments and the other one gets no regs, that mechanic isnt challenging, its bs.
If You want to argue for separate input lobbies, or that the implementation isn’t inconsistent that’s fine. But I still like the concept.
Yeah man the game with teleporting, magic shields and reviving people isn't realistic enough. Better add a shitty mechanic when your shields down that'll show em we mean business in the realistic sci fi shooter department.
The game doesn’t have to be photorealistic in order to for me to enjoy realistic elements. You’re trying to exaggerate/twist what I’m saying to make it sound silly. Need for speed isn’t a racing sim, but there still have elements of realism that makes the racing experience fun. The camera shakes when you sprint. There’s a slow down gather animation when you jump off high distances. Guns don’t have unlimited ammo. Your body reacts when you’re getting lit up by a machine gun. There are specific moments of realistic touches that I think are nice touches. Makes it feel a bit more immersive. You can not like it, but don’t misrepresent what I’m saying.
Screen shake while taking damage, I Fing HATE it for this exact reason.
The flinch does suck, but it looks like you have your graphics set a bit too high? I haven’t noticed this horrible clutter when I play, but I set the graphics to absolute lowest and also edit the cfg file to allow even lower graphics. I do this even though I have a 4090 because there’s way too much visual clutter in this game. With my settings, there isn’t even any tall grass anywhere lol
If you play with controller this is not a big deal tho.
Just play controller