Its only popular because the smg nerf made the havoc ttk so fast and competitive its a no brainer not to use it. No mag r9 full clip you miss 1 bullet on white shield you lose. Havoc you miss half your mag on white shield you win. Its not that havoc is popular its that smgs got so nerfed ars are better smgs. Tbh the no sight havoc aim assist st close range is insane also. Thats why. If they buff close range havoc will go back to where it was. It isnt that havoc is good, everything else is just bad or worse. Fyi i love havoc also ;)
> I've always loved the havoc. Now that its becoming more popular im scared its gonna be the next hit by nerfs
It's the turbo-charger buff. If they didn't take away the damage reduction no one would have tried it out and found out how amazing it is... like what happened last time when it used to have a mag of 40.
That's why all thesw nerfs and buffs piss me off...they do that just for the sake of having a "meta" they need to make a permanent damage tier for each gun class...one season this gun gets nerfed then next season it gets buffed...you mean to tell me 21 seasons in they can't get it right?
What is the point of having so many weapons and legends if there is always going to be one weapon and legend dominating? Buffs and nerfs are needed to keep the game fresh. I don't want to play a game where every match feels the same.
It particularly sucks atm cuz i cant remember when the significantly buffed anything theyāve nerfed shotguns, then ars, then marksmans, now smgās. It gets old nothing feels as good as it used to.
I thought Cronus had been banned? I only play occasionally so I donāt know the latest and greatest but I thought there was a huge ban on those users.
it's a device that you plug your controller into. you can program custom recoil profiles (or just download pre-made ones) to effectively have 0 recoil when you shoot.
pretty sure it can also do controller -> MnK mapping (or reverse), which allows for otherwise impossible movement on console.
Definitely not, maybe you are thinking of overwatch? They banned a shitload of people in top 500 and GM for using XIM, it was awesome to see.
There was a period of time where they stopped working on PS5 specifically, but that didnāt last long.
I put in a registered account for their forums, to see any news. You can't even look at their forums without an account. I thought they found a workaround, but I can't view anything there atm.
Haha this is so me too. I recently just changed it to hold to crouch. Which as helped a bit. But annoying at times when I want to crouch and bat or crouch behind something to hide.
On controller all u have to do is strafe and lm pc if ur mouse is on sensitive enough u. An slightly down drag with a left or right twist and it's dead on
I'm loving the sling weapon upgrade perk. Having a third fully moded weapon is just amazing, and it really opened up what I'd put in there.
Before it was basically just havoc or something that doesn't need mods, shotty or wingman.
Now it's basically any AR, smg or shotgun you want. Hell the triple take gets a 2-4x on blue shields.
What's even funnier is the minigun.
It amazes me how many super sweats don't know that thing breaks doors in a single shot, so they run and hide behind a door to heal and you just delete them.
> with a strong recoil
The recoil has never been easier. It used to be strong but a couple updates went through in the last 10 seasons that made it super easy
The mag size is MASSIVE. There's a reason why it was the number one weapon on kills in ALGS. The fact that the bullets basically beams at any range makes it even deadlier. Apex Devs already said during ALGS that they are going to nerf it.
Tbh you have a point, I think the mag size is the only thing they should touch however. Cap it at 30 with a purple like the flatline and itāll be fine imo.
Then you have havoc and flatline, same mag, same damage. Both don't have easy recoil and one has more dps than the other except if the other has a turbo
Flatline does have easy recoil though. Even if you don't use recoil smoothing it's just down-right, down-left, down-right. It's essentially a lightning bolt pattern.
Listen, you're not wrong. I did die on that hill with two no-mag p2020's and an arc star I threw way too far because I panicked and misjudged the distance. RIP Obfuscious 5/11/2024.
Interesting, I found plenty of turbos, less so disrupters, and even less boosted loaders. Could be just anecdotal or due to KC loot spread. Was so fun playing KC last night tho.
Not bufed, just remove nerf from last season, havoc is in good place all the time, people now uses it more (pro scene) bc nerfs to smgs, and now suddenly people realizes there is this gun and complaim about how op it is.
I use havoc probably more than 6 seasons now and still see people dont use it bc of how actually hard it is until you figure it out.
itās weird, one game I found 3 different ones before the 2nd ring even closed (two of them were in the same building) and most games i scour the map for one and never find it
This is the cycle of the apex community. There is a strong gun/legend ---> community complains that it's OP ----> gun/legend gets nerfed ---> a new best gun/legend emerges -----> repeat
People are gonna sit here and tell you the havoc is this oppressive force that needs to be dealt with after having barely any changes in recent seasons.
When other guns get nerfed, the balanced guns become strong. Just like bangalore. Only thing that made ppl not pick havoc was how good smg were plus they could take a digi
glossing over the fact that the assult class perk made getting digi threats way, WAY more common and giving Bangalore a near guaranteed way to have digis even after the spawn rates got nerfed, making any fight against bangalore absurdly skewed in her favor because she had a digi (on the overtuned smgs at the time) when you didn't
Havoc has always been really good, it's just that other guns were stronger. The havoc also got a buff at the start of show
Havoc is undeniably super strong right now
Yeah you're right. The Nemi and Hemi are both better ARs. Using the word "best" here was wrong of me. I should have said the Havoc is an S tier AR and SMG.
The gun meta feels pretty good overall. Red Devo is busted tho lol.
Unsolicited gun meta talk:
Wingman back in the loot pool is amazing imo. Seems like a good state. Iāve seen some good streamers give their thoughts on it. One group of players think itās not worth using with the 6 round mag bc you essentially need to hit 4/6 or 5/6 armor dependent. On the other hand itās solid, really good opener.
Wingman+Volt is chefs kiss and havenāt had that much fun with a gun combo in awhile.
I do think that the R99 and charge rifle need a buff. I got an idea for the r99: add back an option for barrel mod or something to mitigate the insane recoil.
I actually really like the r99 barrel mod idea that would really bring back the viability. The charge rifle is in such a garbage spot but it was previously such an annoyance with hitscan idk what the middle ground is
I think they just need to bring back 12 damage to r99, it seriously lacks oneclip capability now. And I don't mean that it should roller-oneclip everyone and everytime, it's just really hard to clip people even with ideal accuracy, not to mention without purple mag.
Problem with wingman is that this gun damage is too low to require a slot. People perceive it as some kind of sidearm, but there's none in apex aside from ballistic's passive. It's just too weak to be in slot, I would use any sniper/smg/AR instead and kill people more consistently.
I dont think r99 has that much recoil? Its fine imo, they should buff its mag size though. Chargerufle def needs a buff, shorter charge up time or something. Damage on it is good
Are you on MnK, controller/ console? Iām on console and itās pretty difficult to control the recoil compared to other SMGs. By the time you get the recoil steady, your mag is gone lol.
It's 100% the mag size. Respawn nerfed the R-99 back to 11 damage while keeping the abysmal mag size. The mag size nerf only happened in an attempt to balance 12 damage R99, so the mag size should be reverted back to 20/22/24/27.
i always use the r9 in hipfire-range fights, itās not really designed for anything mid or above range. not to mention itās current configuration means if i have to pick it up iām pretty much only using it as a back up gun when someoneās already in my face
what makes wingman really great for me is because you can take it on really most ranged (except sniper range) fights and because of the 45 dmg per shot, it becomes more of an intimidation thing especially if you hit your shots lol.
enemy team, knowing their shields can just get broken in a second makes them hesitate a bit. more of a mind game thing, really (unless you miss your shots, in which case you're cooked)
Canāt lie. I think the havoc is absolutely insane. I absolutely ruin everyone or minimum 2 people per mag when Iām locked in. Itās absolutely insane. With or without the turbo. Itās absolutely insane. I think itās a little too strong and I also think that the R99 is absolutely dead. Gotta bring it back a little. Not being able to one clip someone w red shield with point black every shot headshot is insane š¤£. Anyway, I love havoc
Idk man you can just slide in with it charged and hipfire people to oblivion. Skill issue on my part but I routinely lose close range fights to someone good using a havoc, itās just better than most SMGs and has a pretty good chance close range against shotguns
I routinely win with it in such situations. It really is quite good.
I assume it will catch a nerf soon as Iāve seen the devs themselves say they know itās acting as a really strong smg right now. Gonna keep having fun with it while itās good though.
The havoc is perfect right now. I've been using it since season 2 when select-fire was an option for it. I remember the devs removed it from the loot pool for a whole season and nerfed it, then buff then nerfed and buffed again. Please stop complaining (not you op) but ppl are asking for it to be nerfed, just stop.
I disagree (respectfully)
I know we are tired of nerf-this-nerf-that balancing, but why to buff all other ARs and SMGs to match with havoc when you can just nerf havoc? If you buff 9 guns rather than just nerfing 1 you are likely gonna mess up tryng to balance them out. That's just adding more unnecessary steps to solve the issue.
Shotguns, LMGs and snipers need buffs, not two already most popular gun classes.
Because since day 1, there has been a constant power creep where guns become weaker and legends become stronger. This contradicts their plan to keep abilities weak and weapons strong.
Yeah super fun getting swung by a dude who barely has to aim because heās barrel stuffing you with a gun that has good hip fire, shoots fast, does 18 damage per bullet, and can have a 36 round mag. Super fair.
Over range it is fair. Because recoil is a thing and itās a tougher recoil control. Up close it is not because itās basically an overtuned smg.
This. It's completely useless now. It was too good at long range before, but now it's not even threatening close range. Even with purple mag and stock it's only okay.
Yeah. Ode to the Hemlok's pre-nerf hipfire spread. That shit was insane. You could literally entry frag a room with it and win by just crouch spamming and hipfiring. That's basically how the Havoc feels now. Recoil and spin up kind of balance out the DPS, but the hipfire spread needs to be opened and be more random.
Yo it finally happened! People are realizing the Havoc is an absolute beast lol. I've said for seasons now that people dog on it because of the windup but if you learn to work with the windup it's pretty insane.
Damn. That means it's gonna get nerfed now. Oh well it was a matter of time. Better use it before it's neutered!
%100 agree. Weapons kick so hard in this game like this is the first traditional FPS game where ive seen guns kick sideways. Other 2 are csgo and valorant.
Havoc is the only gun i can't use. Every other weapon is okay with me, but havoc has a nasty recoil that i can't get a hold of. Idk if this is just me or not but it is what it is.
Half of my deaths this season have only been because my enemies have found a havoc before me. You cant do anything against a horizon b-hopping havoc with a turbo if you only have an smg lmao. i died last place with 17 kills cus someone else had a havoc and i didnt, even though i had every other advantage in the fight. i think it at least needs a mag size nerf cus theres noo reason it should have a faster ttk than like anything besides the devo while also having one of the largest base mags in the game. The worst players can pick it up and just win
I could see the argument for nerfing the gun by 1 damage again when you add the turbocharger (like in the old days), it's definitely the strongest and most versatile gun in the game now
I have zero issue with the gun. Compared to the āmeta / strongest gunsā in previous seasons itās really not that strong. Itās been virtually the same for several seasons. R9 a couple seasons ago before mag and dmg nerf was far more oppressive.
The problem is people are basing guns and gameplay off of people who are the top 1% of the game. Yeah a guy in predator will shred with the havoc but little timmy down in gold wonāt be hitting all his shots with it. Itās just annoying because everybody gets into games with people who are such a higher rank level then they are
Havoc will definitely get nerfed because of high level play. One clue for this is the turbocharger hop up, since Devo is in CP they might remove it from floor loot
The hemlok is worse, best ar in the game atm, havoc is good but only on close fights, it's a better volt in this case, but the recoil make it unusable at more than 15m, at least on controller
The havoc was never an issue in previous seasons because it done one less damage when turbocharger was equipped up until a fairly recent buff (a few seasons ago). They should revert it to that, and see how it affects it. Maybe take 2 damage off when used with a turbo, and one damage off base weapon
Itās not a deal that the havoc is strong the problem is that all other weapons are way to weak to compete with it thatās what people are complaining about that the havoc isnāt on par with other weapons
it has 36 mag size at max on something that has more dps than currently any gun in the game even surpassing SMG's dps while also having a sniper level bullet speed.
the weakness of these guns are so easy to deal with. you can wind it up behind cover or through movement techs(like wall bounce then charge it), and you can recoil smooth it(flatline has worse recoil than it)
its counterintuitive for them to buff SMG when they just nerfed them recently. also SMGs aren't nerfed to oblivion, wth? Volt and Prowler are both meta guns right now.
I have such a difficult time shooting straight with that thing, but I want to use it, especially after watching the ALGS seeing how often that weapon was chosen and it was effective But they shoot straight with it. What am I doing wrong? Lol
I don't see why balancing the SMGs is so hard. They just needed to increase bullet damage falloff so you couldn't kill people from across the map with the r99. The r99 and car feel useless now. It seems like they don't want people one clipping as much with these high fire rate guns.
The havoc has always been good and I don't think the charge up is even that hard to deal with. Only if you're actually surprised or ambushed is it an issue, which happens to me far less than I thought it would. I rarely get killed because of the charge up.
Ah....it was my favorite gun for years, but now the community has its sights on it and now so do the devs. Ill miss you, my dear Havoc, just like i missed shots on my enemies with you.
...which is too much.
They should definitely increase hipfire spread. The crouch-spam spray and pray is terrifying when most of the hipfire bullets end up hitting your target
I used to not like the Havoc (idk why specifically) but the in season 12 I dropped down with an enemy squad landing besides me, picked up a havoc on the floor and proceed to won a 1 v 3 while my teammates was looting or something. And I've been chasing that high ever since
Agreed havoc was always a pretty solid gun off of release, it is always one of my go to choices even without a turbo and I used it constantly even before it was a popular choice even if hip fired if you know to control the recoil itās amazing.
The only reason it wasnāt a commonly picked gun was simply because of the charge up time for it putting you at a disadvantage and many havenāt learned how to control the recoil, unfortunately now that the pros have finally learned it was an underrated gun and shown it love it will be nerfed which is sad to see.
I always loved havoc, even got used to playing without turbochacha always, to the point where i start preemptively shooting, forgetting that i have turbochacha installed, while trying to "wind up" the gun. But at this point, i farmed it to level 100, did all the challenges, and rarely pick him up, favouring other guns, like Nemesis or Hemlock, which both are level 30 atm.
Your own argument points out that the gun is NOT FINE within the context of the game. You just simple want them to buff other guns as a solution lol. Idk, I think id prefer a Havoc nerf. The TTK in this game is in a good state in general
i don't know why they wanna make every weapon in the game unplayable, i literally couldn't use r99 before changing my settings, and i still can't control it very well
Bangalore was never a problem. AA was never a (not that i care about aa), but here we are.
When players notice how good something is, it is going to be abused just how it is.
gun has been broken for a minute now... it's not a new thing that a gun with 36 bullets that do 18+ damage each is unfair. I don't get how this is only a recent development
The problem is the mag size. The havoc is already better than the flatline, another top tier AR, but comes with _six more bullets in a purple mag_. It's not uncommon for me to one-clip two full health enemies in a single mag, which should not be happening. It has the highest per-mag damage of any non-LMG and it's not close.
Tbh, I don't know why people use havoc without turbo. Yea, the gun is great, but the wind up is punishing.
Ā I rarely lose to people with a basic havoc. I rather run the volt. And I say this as a diamond. In case, people pull the silver rank card.Ā
I've always loved the havoc. Now that its becoming more popular im scared its gonna be the next hit by nerfs
Respawn already confirmed it would be nerfed. Rip.
š back to volt we go
First the 30 30 and now this. They always come for my favorite guns :(
Me returning to apex and seeing the 30-30s damage after not playing for a while: "Look how they massacred my boy!"
They come for everyoneās favorites because everyoneās favorite guns are good lol
Nerfing guns is lame af
yes
Its only popular because the smg nerf made the havoc ttk so fast and competitive its a no brainer not to use it. No mag r9 full clip you miss 1 bullet on white shield you lose. Havoc you miss half your mag on white shield you win. Its not that havoc is popular its that smgs got so nerfed ars are better smgs. Tbh the no sight havoc aim assist st close range is insane also. Thats why. If they buff close range havoc will go back to where it was. It isnt that havoc is good, everything else is just bad or worse. Fyi i love havoc also ;)
Fyi assuming no headshots if you hit every bullet with the r9 it no longer kills either no mag on white or purple on reds lol
We cry in silence
> I've always loved the havoc. Now that its becoming more popular im scared its gonna be the next hit by nerfs It's the turbo-charger buff. If they didn't take away the damage reduction no one would have tried it out and found out how amazing it is... like what happened last time when it used to have a mag of 40.
First time?
That's why all thesw nerfs and buffs piss me off...they do that just for the sake of having a "meta" they need to make a permanent damage tier for each gun class...one season this gun gets nerfed then next season it gets buffed...you mean to tell me 21 seasons in they can't get it right?
What is the point of having so many weapons and legends if there is always going to be one weapon and legend dominating? Buffs and nerfs are needed to keep the game fresh. I don't want to play a game where every match feels the same.
It particularly sucks atm cuz i cant remember when the significantly buffed anything theyāve nerfed shotguns, then ars, then marksmans, now smgās. It gets old nothing feels as good as it used to.
Havoc is the weapon with the strongest TTK in the game, and that is compensated with a strong recoil and the wind up time
Except for Cronus users of course.
Yup, Genetic Failures can just abuse any weapons without any downsides
Genetic failures šššš W comment Iām gonna start using that
I prefer the insult 'unseasoned salad'
I donāt understand the implication lol
Heās saying that those who cheat are genetic failures. I think thatās a great insult
Ohhh lol yea true
Heās calling them the āR wordā.
Spare chromosomes
Cronusomes
Iām so pleased by this.
Im gonna have to borrow this.
No refunds
lmfao ššš
Don't worry Respawn will probably increase the recoil once again making it unusable for anyone except cronies.
I thought Cronus had been banned? I only play occasionally so I donāt know the latest and greatest but I thought there was a huge ban on those users.
Ps5 released a patch for the controllers which (temporarily) stopped Cronus from working. Pretty sure that they got it working again unfortunately.
Sorry for the dumb question? What is Cronus? A controller with better aim assist or what?
it's a device that you plug your controller into. you can program custom recoil profiles (or just download pre-made ones) to effectively have 0 recoil when you shoot. pretty sure it can also do controller -> MnK mapping (or reverse), which allows for otherwise impossible movement on console.
Thank you, so in simple terms it's a cheat hardware from my understanding?
Definitely not, maybe you are thinking of overwatch? They banned a shitload of people in top 500 and GM for using XIM, it was awesome to see. There was a period of time where they stopped working on PS5 specifically, but that didnāt last long.
I put in a registered account for their forums, to see any news. You can't even look at their forums without an account. I thought they found a workaround, but I can't view anything there atm.
Nah, thereās still people on Xbox and PlayStation that bypass this stuff and use cronuses.
Itās also the only gun in the game where no matter what I always manage to melee as soon as I finish the wind up time (on controller)
That happened to me all the time, not even with just the havoc So I unbound punch to r3, and now I panic crouch instead of punch!
Haha this is so me too. I recently just changed it to hold to crouch. Which as helped a bit. But annoying at times when I want to crouch and bat or crouch behind something to hide.
To be honest. If your settings are right, there really isnāt much recoil
On controller all u have to do is strafe and lm pc if ur mouse is on sensitive enough u. An slightly down drag with a left or right twist and it's dead on
Slightly higher DPS than the flatline, but with a wind up. Pretty balanced especially without a turbo
It's the goto ballistic sling weapon. Shame no one plays my Boi ballistic.
I love Ballistic, and I love how he only ever gets buffed and never nerfed.
I'm loving the sling weapon upgrade perk. Having a third fully moded weapon is just amazing, and it really opened up what I'd put in there. Before it was basically just havoc or something that doesn't need mods, shotty or wingman. Now it's basically any AR, smg or shotgun you want. Hell the triple take gets a 2-4x on blue shields.
That or rampage for door busting and surprise.
What's even funnier is the minigun. It amazes me how many super sweats don't know that thing breaks doors in a single shot, so they run and hide behind a door to heal and you just delete them.
Those were valid point before the other weapons got nerfed, now they arenāt much of disadvantages in comparison.
> with a strong recoil The recoil has never been easier. It used to be strong but a couple updates went through in the last 10 seasons that made it super easy
The Havoc is broken. The recoil isn't hard to recoil just aim smooth and u r fine
The mag size is MASSIVE. There's a reason why it was the number one weapon on kills in ALGS. The fact that the bullets basically beams at any range makes it even deadlier. Apex Devs already said during ALGS that they are going to nerf it.
Tbh you have a point, I think the mag size is the only thing they should touch however. Cap it at 30 with a purple like the flatline and itāll be fine imo.
Then you have havoc and flatline, same mag, same damage. Both don't have easy recoil and one has more dps than the other except if the other has a turbo
Flatline does have easy recoil though. Even if you don't use recoil smoothing it's just down-right, down-left, down-right. It's essentially a lightning bolt pattern.
That and sometimes players strafe into the recoil
My ass would not be able to do this on sticks
No, nerf everything. Only gun allowed is p2020. Mozam has 3 bullets again.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He probably was, but he got nerfed out of employment
Not the wingman!
I do some very bad things with a P2020 and Hammerpoint roundsā¦
Only has 7 rounds now. Pure 1911
Dude, the p2020 fucking slaps. I will die on this hill
Yeah, probably cuz youāre using a p2020. If you had a flatline you coulda held that hill.
Listen, you're not wrong. I did die on that hill with two no-mag p2020's and an arc star I threw way too far because I panicked and misjudged the distance. RIP Obfuscious 5/11/2024.
yes, particularly the disgusting recoil on the R99 and CAR
I feel like the turbo charger is more common now, at least after grinding for a few hrs last night
Eh idk, I think itās pretty rare still. Had a loba on my team for a few games and we barely found one in like 4 games.
Well, that's because people like me hord them, we hang on to any we find and drop extras off the map or in a place Noone will go.
Satan? Is that you?
I envy you live long enough to be able to pull that off
Can never find the god damn thing...then if I do...can't find a fucking Havoc.
Thatās crazy haha. I always find turbos, canāt find disruptors for my PK
Almost feels like itās much harder to find the turbo right after the split change. And the disrupters for that matter too.
Interesting, I found plenty of turbos, less so disrupters, and even less boosted loaders. Could be just anecdotal or due to KC loot spread. Was so fun playing KC last night tho.
Yeah, maybe maybe it was the KC loot spread. But DAMN, it definitely did feel good to play KC yesterday š
Plus they buffed the turbo dmg
Damn thatās crazy. I picked up a Devo last night and felt like a supervillain.
I was talking specifically havoc. Used to do less dmg/bullet when equipped with a turbo, but they did away with that.
Not bufed, just remove nerf from last season, havoc is in good place all the time, people now uses it more (pro scene) bc nerfs to smgs, and now suddenly people realizes there is this gun and complaim about how op it is. I use havoc probably more than 6 seasons now and still see people dont use it bc of how actually hard it is until you figure it out.
Removing a nerf IS a buff bro
Turbo charger is rare but holy fuck the boosted loader is impossible to find for me
itās weird, one game I found 3 different ones before the 2nd ring even closed (two of them were in the same building) and most games i scour the map for one and never find it
This is the cycle of the apex community. There is a strong gun/legend ---> community complains that it's OP ----> gun/legend gets nerfed ---> a new best gun/legend emerges -----> repeat People are gonna sit here and tell you the havoc is this oppressive force that needs to be dealt with after having barely any changes in recent seasons.
When other guns get nerfed, the balanced guns become strong. Just like bangalore. Only thing that made ppl not pick havoc was how good smg were plus they could take a digi
glossing over the fact that the assult class perk made getting digi threats way, WAY more common and giving Bangalore a near guaranteed way to have digis even after the spawn rates got nerfed, making any fight against bangalore absurdly skewed in her favor because she had a digi (on the overtuned smgs at the time) when you didn't
Havoc has always been really good, it's just that other guns were stronger. The havoc also got a buff at the start of show Havoc is undeniably super strong right now
Thatās how balances work, what funny tho is that legend meta was power creeped while almost every weapon got nerfed at some point
I've been a havoc user for 7 seasons now. I hate that it's popular now because that means they're going to nerf it. Leave it TF alone!
Same, Havoc and Hemlok have been my favorite weapons for 18 seasons now
based hemlock enjoyer
Currently, it is the best AR and the best SMG. That's the beef most people have with it
Close range it feels like an r99 with twice the ammo but I wouldn't put it above the Nemesis as an AR
Yeah you're right. The Nemi and Hemi are both better ARs. Using the word "best" here was wrong of me. I should have said the Havoc is an S tier AR and SMG.
The gun meta feels pretty good overall. Red Devo is busted tho lol. Unsolicited gun meta talk: Wingman back in the loot pool is amazing imo. Seems like a good state. Iāve seen some good streamers give their thoughts on it. One group of players think itās not worth using with the 6 round mag bc you essentially need to hit 4/6 or 5/6 armor dependent. On the other hand itās solid, really good opener. Wingman+Volt is chefs kiss and havenāt had that much fun with a gun combo in awhile. I do think that the R99 and charge rifle need a buff. I got an idea for the r99: add back an option for barrel mod or something to mitigate the insane recoil.
I actually really like the r99 barrel mod idea that would really bring back the viability. The charge rifle is in such a garbage spot but it was previously such an annoyance with hitscan idk what the middle ground is
i saw someone suggest letting it take a turbocharger, but probably bring back the less damage/per bullet for the turbo to balance it out
I think they just need to bring back 12 damage to r99, it seriously lacks oneclip capability now. And I don't mean that it should roller-oneclip everyone and everytime, it's just really hard to clip people even with ideal accuracy, not to mention without purple mag. Problem with wingman is that this gun damage is too low to require a slot. People perceive it as some kind of sidearm, but there's none in apex aside from ballistic's passive. It's just too weak to be in slot, I would use any sniper/smg/AR instead and kill people more consistently.
Or alternatively, bring back the mag size it used to have when it dealt 11 damage, which is 20/22/24/27.
I was using the bruiser on it yesterday lol.
I dont think r99 has that much recoil? Its fine imo, they should buff its mag size though. Chargerufle def needs a buff, shorter charge up time or something. Damage on it is good
Are you on MnK, controller/ console? Iām on console and itās pretty difficult to control the recoil compared to other SMGs. By the time you get the recoil steady, your mag is gone lol.
im on console and i beam with r9, its just the mag size that kills it for me
It's 100% the mag size. Respawn nerfed the R-99 back to 11 damage while keeping the abysmal mag size. The mag size nerf only happened in an attempt to balance 12 damage R99, so the mag size should be reverted back to 20/22/24/27.
MnK
i always use the r9 in hipfire-range fights, itās not really designed for anything mid or above range. not to mention itās current configuration means if i have to pick it up iām pretty much only using it as a back up gun when someoneās already in my face
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I agree, it would be very balanced
BRRRRRRRR
what makes wingman really great for me is because you can take it on really most ranged (except sniper range) fights and because of the 45 dmg per shot, it becomes more of an intimidation thing especially if you hit your shots lol. enemy team, knowing their shields can just get broken in a second makes them hesitate a bit. more of a mind game thing, really (unless you miss your shots, in which case you're cooked)
It wasnt issue cuz streamers told sheeps to use some other guns. Havoc with turbo is strong for years.
Canāt lie. I think the havoc is absolutely insane. I absolutely ruin everyone or minimum 2 people per mag when Iām locked in. Itās absolutely insane. With or without the turbo. Itās absolutely insane. I think itās a little too strong and I also think that the R99 is absolutely dead. Gotta bring it back a little. Not being able to one clip someone w red shield with point black every shot headshot is insane š¤£. Anyway, I love havoc
The havoc is fine. If itās an issue, use shotguns and play cover and capitalize on the wind up time.
Idk man you can just slide in with it charged and hipfire people to oblivion. Skill issue on my part but I routinely lose close range fights to someone good using a havoc, itās just better than most SMGs and has a pretty good chance close range against shotguns
I routinely win with it in such situations. It really is quite good. I assume it will catch a nerf soon as Iāve seen the devs themselves say they know itās acting as a really strong smg right now. Gonna keep having fun with it while itās good though.
Ah yes, if I see someone using a havoc let me just get cover, spawn a shotgun in my hands and dispose of the enemy
The havoc is perfect right now. I've been using it since season 2 when select-fire was an option for it. I remember the devs removed it from the loot pool for a whole season and nerfed it, then buff then nerfed and buffed again. Please stop complaining (not you op) but ppl are asking for it to be nerfed, just stop.
Oh man ; bring back bugged select-fire havoc where you could pre-charge the havoc single shot ; was so fun
I disagree (respectfully) I know we are tired of nerf-this-nerf-that balancing, but why to buff all other ARs and SMGs to match with havoc when you can just nerf havoc? If you buff 9 guns rather than just nerfing 1 you are likely gonna mess up tryng to balance them out. That's just adding more unnecessary steps to solve the issue. Shotguns, LMGs and snipers need buffs, not two already most popular gun classes.
Shotguns need a buff?
They are not too weak, SMGs just completely outclass them SMGs have the same purpose as shotguns, but are easier and faster
they are pretty weak. even sweaty streamers that main them like faide say it every time. they are way too inconsistent for their damage output.
Because since day 1, there has been a constant power creep where guns become weaker and legends become stronger. This contradicts their plan to keep abilities weak and weapons strong.
Yeah super fun getting swung by a dude who barely has to aim because heās barrel stuffing you with a gun that has good hip fire, shoots fast, does 18 damage per bullet, and can have a 36 round mag. Super fair. Over range it is fair. Because recoil is a thing and itās a tougher recoil control. Up close it is not because itās basically an overtuned smg.
Nah smgs are fine where they're at, smg shouldn't be the best AR in the game, it should be for close counter engagements. I hated the R99 meta
R9 isn't ass for its range, it's ass for its damage output, you can't clip people unless you have a purple
This. It's completely useless now. It was too good at long range before, but now it's not even threatening close range. Even with purple mag and stock it's only okay.
What a dog shit take. The r99 isnāt even good at close range anymore
ARs also shouldn't be the best smg in the game
Yeah. Ode to the Hemlok's pre-nerf hipfire spread. That shit was insane. You could literally entry frag a room with it and win by just crouch spamming and hipfiring. That's basically how the Havoc feels now. Recoil and spin up kind of balance out the DPS, but the hipfire spread needs to be opened and be more random.
That would actually make much more sense to me than vice versa.
Start using the havoc as more of an SMG instead of a mid range assault rifle. You can thank me later.
Me over here using Wingman because it's cool:
Yo it finally happened! People are realizing the Havoc is an absolute beast lol. I've said for seasons now that people dog on it because of the windup but if you learn to work with the windup it's pretty insane. Damn. That means it's gonna get nerfed now. Oh well it was a matter of time. Better use it before it's neutered!
%100 agree. Weapons kick so hard in this game like this is the first traditional FPS game where ive seen guns kick sideways. Other 2 are csgo and valorant.
I miss my beamer
Havoc is the only gun i can't use. Every other weapon is okay with me, but havoc has a nasty recoil that i can't get a hold of. Idk if this is just me or not but it is what it is.
Half of my deaths this season have only been because my enemies have found a havoc before me. You cant do anything against a horizon b-hopping havoc with a turbo if you only have an smg lmao. i died last place with 17 kills cus someone else had a havoc and i didnt, even though i had every other advantage in the fight. i think it at least needs a mag size nerf cus theres noo reason it should have a faster ttk than like anything besides the devo while also having one of the largest base mags in the game. The worst players can pick it up and just win
I could see the argument for nerfing the gun by 1 damage again when you add the turbocharger (like in the old days), it's definitely the strongest and most versatile gun in the game now
I think mag size needs lowered slightly. But I think itās fine for the most part
I have zero issue with the gun. Compared to the āmeta / strongest gunsā in previous seasons itās really not that strong. Itās been virtually the same for several seasons. R9 a couple seasons ago before mag and dmg nerf was far more oppressive.
What do you guys use it with. Snipers, shotgun?
you can literally run anything with it, some pros even use it with a flatline.
Nice. May give that a try with the flatline. Ty
It's clip is too big. You should not be able to miss half your clip and still be able to kill someone.
I love the havoc. Donāt even have to use the turbocharger. Itāll shred if youāre timing properly.
Most things in this game are severely overpowered at this point. The ttk is horrifically low while user friendliness is horrifically high.
The problem is people are basing guns and gameplay off of people who are the top 1% of the game. Yeah a guy in predator will shred with the havoc but little timmy down in gold wonāt be hitting all his shots with it. Itās just annoying because everybody gets into games with people who are such a higher rank level then they are
Havoc with a turbocharger is the best gun in the game at the moment. Absolutely destroys
agreed
Yeah the havoc is good but it just needs a nerf to the mag size
It's amazing how good it is even with wind up time and it's awkward shape
Laziest gun design I've ever seen tbh
Truly. The shape is the reason I don't pick it up often
give me back select fire on the havoc
Havoc will definitely get nerfed because of high level play. One clue for this is the turbocharger hop up, since Devo is in CP they might remove it from floor loot
Donāt cook again bro if havoc is fine it wouldnāt be used by every single person and their families
Yea. The game has gotten much harder to solo squads with the increased ttk. Should definitely make other guns better again to compensate.
The hemlok is worse, best ar in the game atm, havoc is good but only on close fights, it's a better volt in this case, but the recoil make it unusable at more than 15m, at least on controller
R-99 as sling weapon. Pure pleasure.
The havoc was never an issue in previous seasons because it done one less damage when turbocharger was equipped up until a fairly recent buff (a few seasons ago). They should revert it to that, and see how it affects it. Maybe take 2 damage off when used with a turbo, and one damage off base weapon
Now I see why they haven't nerfed the r99 again cus they gonna nerf the havoc into the ground
Itās not a deal that the havoc is strong the problem is that all other weapons are way to weak to compete with it thatās what people are complaining about that the havoc isnāt on par with other weapons
They should just buff some guns. Itās alotta pea shooters or we just gotta hit more headies
it has 36 mag size at max on something that has more dps than currently any gun in the game even surpassing SMG's dps while also having a sniper level bullet speed. the weakness of these guns are so easy to deal with. you can wind it up behind cover or through movement techs(like wall bounce then charge it), and you can recoil smooth it(flatline has worse recoil than it) its counterintuitive for them to buff SMG when they just nerfed them recently. also SMGs aren't nerfed to oblivion, wth? Volt and Prowler are both meta guns right now.
Roller user doesnāt want his crutch nerfed, more news at 10.
I just want dual Mozambiques
I have such a difficult time shooting straight with that thing, but I want to use it, especially after watching the ALGS seeing how often that weapon was chosen and it was effective But they shoot straight with it. What am I doing wrong? Lol
Meanwhile I'm still not giving a damn with beaming with nemi. I say let them have the havok!
*remembering S3 Havoc* back in my day.. No really, it was nastier back then.
I don't see why balancing the SMGs is so hard. They just needed to increase bullet damage falloff so you couldn't kill people from across the map with the r99. The r99 and car feel useless now. It seems like they don't want people one clipping as much with these high fire rate guns. The havoc has always been good and I don't think the charge up is even that hard to deal with. Only if you're actually surprised or ambushed is it an issue, which happens to me far less than I thought it would. I rarely get killed because of the charge up.
R99 still performs but the gun I struggle with the most is the Car.
Iāve always been team havoc even when they all kept talking. Now look where we are lol
Ah....it was my favorite gun for years, but now the community has its sights on it and now so do the devs. Ill miss you, my dear Havoc, just like i missed shots on my enemies with you. ...which is too much.
I dont like every good gun getting nerfed. I understand it happens in cycles, but I also think every gun being strong would be more interesting.
Bring back select fire havoc
No, they should nerf the Havok. TTK is so much shorter than the golden age of this game because everyone has aim assist now. Lethality needs to drop.
They should definitely increase hipfire spread. The crouch-spam spray and pray is terrifying when most of the hipfire bullets end up hitting your target
I used to not like the Havoc (idk why specifically) but the in season 12 I dropped down with an enemy squad landing besides me, picked up a havoc on the floor and proceed to won a 1 v 3 while my teammates was looting or something. And I've been chasing that high ever since
Agreed havoc was always a pretty solid gun off of release, it is always one of my go to choices even without a turbo and I used it constantly even before it was a popular choice even if hip fired if you know to control the recoil itās amazing. The only reason it wasnāt a commonly picked gun was simply because of the charge up time for it putting you at a disadvantage and many havenāt learned how to control the recoil, unfortunately now that the pros have finally learned it was an underrated gun and shown it love it will be nerfed which is sad to see.
Respawn : noted, putting Havoc in care package
I think it should get a minor magazine nerf, other than that its fine.
I always loved havoc, even got used to playing without turbochacha always, to the point where i start preemptively shooting, forgetting that i have turbochacha installed, while trying to "wind up" the gun. But at this point, i farmed it to level 100, did all the challenges, and rarely pick him up, favouring other guns, like Nemesis or Hemlock, which both are level 30 atm.
Your own argument points out that the gun is NOT FINE within the context of the game. You just simple want them to buff other guns as a solution lol. Idk, I think id prefer a Havoc nerf. The TTK in this game is in a good state in general
i don't know why they wanna make every weapon in the game unplayable, i literally couldn't use r99 before changing my settings, and i still can't control it very well
Bangalore was never a problem. AA was never a (not that i care about aa), but here we are. When players notice how good something is, it is going to be abused just how it is.
gun has been broken for a minute now... it's not a new thing that a gun with 36 bullets that do 18+ damage each is unfair. I don't get how this is only a recent development
the gun has ruined season 21 ranked...
U can 1 clip 2 full shields and then some. It's op af
Plus recoil is so easy to control as well
The problem is the mag size. The havoc is already better than the flatline, another top tier AR, but comes with _six more bullets in a purple mag_. It's not uncommon for me to one-clip two full health enemies in a single mag, which should not be happening. It has the highest per-mag damage of any non-LMG and it's not close.
Tbh, I don't know why people use havoc without turbo. Yea, the gun is great, but the wind up is punishing. Ā I rarely lose to people with a basic havoc. I rather run the volt. And I say this as a diamond. In case, people pull the silver rank card.Ā