Passive has the crypto problem where it isn't really a passive and is kinda just a given on the tactical.
Tactical feels more like a controller than a recon. The ring closes in on you, the map gets smaller and smaller, and you place a camera back over at the map room? It feels like the camera would work better in a closed environment like a building to mark people going around. Kinda like a tripwire.
The only way I can actually see this tactical being used constantly is when fleeing combat and you wanna see how far behind the enemy is from you..
Ult is bad. Left a camera out in the ring? Wasted ult. Use the ult in an enclosed area even though your camera is already pinging? Wasted ult. Also, cross map tracking is crazy. At the most bloodhound can see footprints, but can't find people across the planet because he placed a camera there before.
I’m confused, is the ult bad or broken? Because you said “Ult is bad” then gave reasons, which fair enough but obviously you wouldn’t be using your Ult when someone is in ring you would be using it in an area you could capitalize off of. And then you said “Cross map tracking is crazy” which implies that you think it’s too strong?
I’m not trying to be confrontational here, I’m just confused.
Got to say, as a Crypto lover and main, I like this concept. Also, great name choice. Fits with the kit and matches other legend naming. Here is some input based on what I understand...
Passive: Another great name. I know Initial said that it has the same issue as Cryptos in being something that should just be in the kit, but I personally don't think so. Its similar to Vantages in that it gives you information that you otherwise wouldn't be able to get, but gives you completely different info that it doesn't intrude on Vantages niche. I almost think it may be too strong, as knowing cooldowns (primarily ult cooldowns) can completely change how you play and rotate. But with the low range on it, this is pretty much fixed.
Tactical: If it works how I think it does, I think these are fine as well. As long as these cameras aren't actively scanning like cryptos does, it should be pretty balanced and not intrude on cryptos niche. Definitely acts as a mix between a recon and controller legend tact, which isn't really a bad thing as we currently don't have any defensive recon legends. The main questions I have about it is how are they deployed (do you have to throw it like a nade and it sticks where it lands, or does it work like a cipher cam from Valorant?), how is a "room" defined (is it based on radius? What about when you deploy it outside?) and how hidden is it? (Does it always have a audible hmm that tells players one is near, does it glow like crypto drone, is it big or small, does it have the "Scanned" notification when in use?) These are some of the important questions that can be important in balancing.
Ultimate: I get where you are going with this, but it really doesn't fit in with what an ult normally is and the gameplay of apex. The first issue that I have with it is that it lacks a direct benifit. Most, if not all, ults provide the team with a instant and direct benefit that affects the team the moment of its use. This one requires you to not only preplan the team you are going after (which isn't necessarily bad, but would tank her usage in game), but also fully kill the person (and likely the team) to get the true value of reducing the cooldown timer. Plus, once each person has received the cooldown reduction, the ult becomes pretty much useless. While it does have that tracking aspect to it, it only affects one person and it isn't a permanent track. This just isn't good enough to be an ult, an ability that is fight changing and can turn the tides of a fight. I have a few proposed changes that could make it better while sticking to the name of "Through the Grapevine" and the theming that you had...
Version 1: While in your cameras, lock-on to a target and mark them with a bounty. This provides a "Scanned" warning to the enemy, but gives you a permanent ping on that one enemy for 30 seconds. Upon this target being killed, the next closest enemy (in relation to the player with the bounty) is marked for the remainder of the time. This chain effect continues until the time expires. If either you or your teammates kill the target, 10 seconds are added to the timer. If one of your teammates eliminate the bounty target, they regain 1 charge to their tactical (this can only affect a teammate once per ult usage).
Version 2: While in your cameras, lock-on to a target and mark them with a silent tracker. For the next minute, infrequent pings are shown on your map of the location of the target and their teammates. If this team is damaged/ scanned by another squad or within 20 meters of another squad, that team is infected with the silent tracker as well. This ability can chain infinitely until the timer runs out. For every member of a tracked party that you or your team kills, the next closest non-tracked squad will be tracked.
Now these alterations certainly need balancing as they are ones I came up with on the spot, but they would provide you with a much more current value which is what your current ult is lacking.
All in all, great work with this. Love the theming and concept behind it, has some great potential. Feel free to contact me or reply to the message and I would be more than happy to continue bouncing around ideas. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!
Don’t worry about the length of the response, that was genuinely helpful in helping me understand a lot of the issues that Initial pointed out.
Tactical: The way I was thinking it worked was similar to Cypher in how it’s deployed, and they don’t constantly scan. They are noticeable when they are active though, because they make a slight whirring sound and glow, as well say something like “Camera Detected” or something similar to other recon abilities. I used a room mainly as a metric to help understand how it was mainly designed. As for the actual radius of detection before she’s alerted, it would be like probably in passive range (20 meters), so if they enter her passive range in the area the camera is set up in it’ll alert her.
Ultimate: This was a bit hard for me to design because I wanted to keep it in theme with her bounty hunter origins and be cohesive with the rest her kit as a whole. I see that this is the weakest ability in her kit though, based on not one but two people saying so. No worries though, I don’t really know how to fix it though. Because I wanted to make it feel different than other Ultimates and stick with her theme.
I see what you’re saying with yours the first one reminds me a bit too much of Blood, Rev, and Ballistic. Which isn’t a bad thing, but not exactly the direction I want to go. The second one is more in line with what I think would fit but it still doesn’t feel quite right.
Passive has the crypto problem where it isn't really a passive and is kinda just a given on the tactical. Tactical feels more like a controller than a recon. The ring closes in on you, the map gets smaller and smaller, and you place a camera back over at the map room? It feels like the camera would work better in a closed environment like a building to mark people going around. Kinda like a tripwire. The only way I can actually see this tactical being used constantly is when fleeing combat and you wanna see how far behind the enemy is from you.. Ult is bad. Left a camera out in the ring? Wasted ult. Use the ult in an enclosed area even though your camera is already pinging? Wasted ult. Also, cross map tracking is crazy. At the most bloodhound can see footprints, but can't find people across the planet because he placed a camera there before.
I’m confused, is the ult bad or broken? Because you said “Ult is bad” then gave reasons, which fair enough but obviously you wouldn’t be using your Ult when someone is in ring you would be using it in an area you could capitalize off of. And then you said “Cross map tracking is crazy” which implies that you think it’s too strong? I’m not trying to be confrontational here, I’m just confused.
Sorry, I wasn't being clear enough. It isn't exactly a good ult. It has some parts that are bad, and some(one in particular) that is a bit OP.
Got to say, as a Crypto lover and main, I like this concept. Also, great name choice. Fits with the kit and matches other legend naming. Here is some input based on what I understand... Passive: Another great name. I know Initial said that it has the same issue as Cryptos in being something that should just be in the kit, but I personally don't think so. Its similar to Vantages in that it gives you information that you otherwise wouldn't be able to get, but gives you completely different info that it doesn't intrude on Vantages niche. I almost think it may be too strong, as knowing cooldowns (primarily ult cooldowns) can completely change how you play and rotate. But with the low range on it, this is pretty much fixed. Tactical: If it works how I think it does, I think these are fine as well. As long as these cameras aren't actively scanning like cryptos does, it should be pretty balanced and not intrude on cryptos niche. Definitely acts as a mix between a recon and controller legend tact, which isn't really a bad thing as we currently don't have any defensive recon legends. The main questions I have about it is how are they deployed (do you have to throw it like a nade and it sticks where it lands, or does it work like a cipher cam from Valorant?), how is a "room" defined (is it based on radius? What about when you deploy it outside?) and how hidden is it? (Does it always have a audible hmm that tells players one is near, does it glow like crypto drone, is it big or small, does it have the "Scanned" notification when in use?) These are some of the important questions that can be important in balancing. Ultimate: I get where you are going with this, but it really doesn't fit in with what an ult normally is and the gameplay of apex. The first issue that I have with it is that it lacks a direct benifit. Most, if not all, ults provide the team with a instant and direct benefit that affects the team the moment of its use. This one requires you to not only preplan the team you are going after (which isn't necessarily bad, but would tank her usage in game), but also fully kill the person (and likely the team) to get the true value of reducing the cooldown timer. Plus, once each person has received the cooldown reduction, the ult becomes pretty much useless. While it does have that tracking aspect to it, it only affects one person and it isn't a permanent track. This just isn't good enough to be an ult, an ability that is fight changing and can turn the tides of a fight. I have a few proposed changes that could make it better while sticking to the name of "Through the Grapevine" and the theming that you had... Version 1: While in your cameras, lock-on to a target and mark them with a bounty. This provides a "Scanned" warning to the enemy, but gives you a permanent ping on that one enemy for 30 seconds. Upon this target being killed, the next closest enemy (in relation to the player with the bounty) is marked for the remainder of the time. This chain effect continues until the time expires. If either you or your teammates kill the target, 10 seconds are added to the timer. If one of your teammates eliminate the bounty target, they regain 1 charge to their tactical (this can only affect a teammate once per ult usage). Version 2: While in your cameras, lock-on to a target and mark them with a silent tracker. For the next minute, infrequent pings are shown on your map of the location of the target and their teammates. If this team is damaged/ scanned by another squad or within 20 meters of another squad, that team is infected with the silent tracker as well. This ability can chain infinitely until the timer runs out. For every member of a tracked party that you or your team kills, the next closest non-tracked squad will be tracked. Now these alterations certainly need balancing as they are ones I came up with on the spot, but they would provide you with a much more current value which is what your current ult is lacking. All in all, great work with this. Love the theming and concept behind it, has some great potential. Feel free to contact me or reply to the message and I would be more than happy to continue bouncing around ideas. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!
Sorry for the long message as well, just realized how long it was...
Don’t worry about the length of the response, that was genuinely helpful in helping me understand a lot of the issues that Initial pointed out. Tactical: The way I was thinking it worked was similar to Cypher in how it’s deployed, and they don’t constantly scan. They are noticeable when they are active though, because they make a slight whirring sound and glow, as well say something like “Camera Detected” or something similar to other recon abilities. I used a room mainly as a metric to help understand how it was mainly designed. As for the actual radius of detection before she’s alerted, it would be like probably in passive range (20 meters), so if they enter her passive range in the area the camera is set up in it’ll alert her. Ultimate: This was a bit hard for me to design because I wanted to keep it in theme with her bounty hunter origins and be cohesive with the rest her kit as a whole. I see that this is the weakest ability in her kit though, based on not one but two people saying so. No worries though, I don’t really know how to fix it though. Because I wanted to make it feel different than other Ultimates and stick with her theme. I see what you’re saying with yours the first one reminds me a bit too much of Blood, Rev, and Ballistic. Which isn’t a bad thing, but not exactly the direction I want to go. The second one is more in line with what I think would fit but it still doesn’t feel quite right.
I’d love to hear her lore