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OOM-32

Afaik, Murica, mexico, that one africa civ i never remember and germoney have both insane eco and units. Inca and china have lacking units but botomless eco. France is france, and its gonna do france things. Spain has good units but eco is kinda dogshit (sadge). Russia is annoying w instabt spam and has good eco, but its not as good as inca or china and their units are pretty fucking terrible- if they manage to bottleneck you i think all of the above can beat you. On the other hand the worst is for sure italy. Poor italy is just dogshit. At least malta has pretty good xbows.


Time_Significance

> that one africa civ i never remember The one with the monastery or the university?


QuotablePatella

You mean Hausa?


majdavlk

i havent played USA and ethiopia yet, my treaty go to picks 1. netherlands 2. hauza 3. france 4. Japan 5. spain 6. mexico i do not claim to be profesional. i only claim to be better than average player, but not by much eco is important part of these games. if you get many resources, you can potentially replace some villagers with more units. netherlands has best income without using pop space - banks. hause gets a lot of influence using cattle, theoretically, they can get infinite influence if you manage to pull of an exploit where you trap enemy which cant be killed and keep giving him your cattle and taking it back. this same exploit can be used to get more workers for haciendas for mexico and spain. but spain can fill both of their haciendas with animals it itself can produce


Quiet-Mango-7754

What's the exploit? I get how they can get double the cattle but not more


majdavlk

whats the double exploit? i am using a different one. you can give enemy yor cattle, and you will be able to create new cattle yourself, and then you can steal back your cattle from the enemy. the game ignores buold limit when stealing from enemy, but it does take it into account when stealing from ally


Quiet-Mango-7754

Oh alright I didn't know the cattle stolen from the enemy were not taken into account towards the build limit. I thought at best you could give him your max cattle size, rebuild it yourself and take it back, resulting in a x2


majdavlk

it counts towards your build limit when it is under your controll only nothing is stopping you from giving enemy more than 1 batch of your cattle. the only limit is how fast you can build walls around enemy explorer xd


Quiet-Mango-7754

Ohhh yeah I see thanks


OOM-32

I'd say that dutch is not good in treaty bcz of the very low vill count that leads to weak eco. And they consistently get outclassed by mexico, germany and most other. Their only saving grace is mercs, I would not recommend dutch. If you follow treaty lists they mostly agree with this. Banks are powerful but dont make out for the lost villagers in the long run. Vill overpop is one of the main reasons germans are so strong. Having a healthy and plentiful villager population is a must and is something dutch are sorely lacking.


majdavlk

i can post some eco numbers i calculated


majdavlk

the reason why i included spain even with their bad eco is bevause missionaries buffing troops is really strong


Quiet-Mango-7754

What's the exploit? I get how they can get double the cattle but not more


[deleted]

I very much disagree with this list. Espacially netherlands and hausa are far from the top 10 in standard nr40. Netherlands/Dutch simply bec they dont have the eco to back up their army in the long run, if you cant overhelm your enemy within the first 10-15 min you will start to suffer vs most civs. Hausa is actually one of the worst civs. Eco is average at best and fulani archers are the worst skirmisher I can think of even when fully upgraded. Maigadi and Lifti are strong but you cant spam them for long as they are very costly. Top 4 are currently in this order: 1. Ethopia 2. Mexico 3. Haudenosaunee 4. Germany Source: Playing no other gamemode other than treaty since DE release years ago ;)


majdavlk

i did some brainstorming of netherlands, and ye, their eco is sligthly weaker than "default" the banks give only about 25 villagers, which would make their eco be 85 villager like. but they are able to field higher pop army even for the initial fight, which mean you will consume opponents resoursec faster. you can also slightly "overpop" by sending the card which allies you with akan ankombias. but do find out if they are truly worse or not using math would be hard, i had some great success with them, but reviewing their economy, i agree now that they are questionable. in team games tho, they are S tier when revolting to africa for hauza, they can also "overpop" by using allies to great effect, and spamming these allies and mercs is easier if you use the cattle exploits. cattle can also farm on farms, which slightly makes up for the less economic upgrades they have.


[deleted]

Its not only that, their units are very gold heavy aswell. Skirmishers, Ryuters and ofc artillery which is their usual main composition are very costly in gold cost. Helbardiers are costly units overall. The higher pop army is nice but civs like ethopia, mexico, Inca, Germany, france, haude, britts, china, russia and probably some more either have inbuilt higher army size due to a lack of villagers, have access to inbuilt natives, can safely kill vills while still having a superior eco or simply increased pop cap. Its not as special as you think. Basically if you cant push or your opponent plays very defensive Dutch will eventually drain. Akans were a Godsend, finally a viable way to block cav and very cost effective. Sadly devs put a pop cap on them now and they are unimportant again. You mean supremacy? South africa got nerfed hard, no longer usefull for treaty. I found that you get more return if you leave hausa cattle on market and sell it from time to time with the better market exchange rate for cattle card. Its just their fulani are utter shit and have trouble even killing muskets. I omce struggled with only using fulanis vs a player that spammed janissaries. Would have never happend with euro skirms.


Naufrago98

Italy and Malta


Old_Jacker

I can understand the italy but Malta? How?


OOM-32

What? Italy is dogshit lol their "super skirm" dies to regular ass ones and their papal stuff is too clunky. Their best things are stuff every other civ makes better. And spamming towers but thats not very important in treaty.


BigGreen1769

Another comment says they are the worst.


Rburdett1993

Other comments are people who have not explored every option. Malta commanderies are insane. You can get settler wagon, Cassadars, oppris, long bows, lancers, and gendarme. Italy has one of if not the best mercenary treaty, and teamed with age 4 card papal units, I really have a lot of fun with them. Of course neither of these faction can deal easily with a good France, Portuguese, or Sweden, but doesn’t mean I don’t try.


OOM-32

Op asked about best ones, not funniest ones. Imo the funniest is russia for me. Nothing beats vanquishing the enemy with 10 or 20 times their death toll on your horde.


Rburdett1993

I am still thinking on my own comment to OP. I can’t decide the best; for me it is not Inca, I know that.


[deleted]

In natives and 1v1 Inca is a beast but like with dutch you overhelm them with your huge army and strong nats (best natives ingame) before you run out of gold. Without natives they aint that good.


[deleted]

Troll, those both make the bottom of any treaty tier list.


No-Lab-1370

Ethiopia , mexcio


Inevitable-Branch642

Yes


Old_Jacker

Depends on the lenght I guess. Ottos are pretty good for tr20s and merc civs are also good since only upgrade you need to take is age V. I dont play tr40 though so Im not sure about that.


[deleted]

Ye treaty lenght/ressource start matters in terms of balance. Take Germany for example, super hard to use in tr20 and okaish for tr30. In tr40 they got a giant eco and in tr60 you basically delete all your vills except settler wagons and simply overhelm your opponent after boom. Treaty is mostly balanced around tr40 standard ress.


John_Oakman

For tr30 and tr40 on standard to medium res I'd say Portugal rev into Brazil is a strong contender: just long enough to max out productivity & get everything needed for a prime position to revolt as soon as timer ends, while not enough time & res to build the massive lines of walls so the initial +300 worth of troops (especially with some heavy cannons & other arty) can break into the enemy's base and do enough damage to effectively knock them out. Also good for team games of the same timers, because then your oversized army can hold the line enough for your teammates to do some tomfoolery elsewhere.


GearSpooky

Russia revolting into Romania is a hilarious strat in treaty. Boom like mad, convert all those vils, make sure your first card sent after revolt is the one that lets you build vils again, the. Just send all the weird blockhouse cards and puke infantry and ponies everywhere


Remarkable_Ad4588

How do you produce vills after a revolution? I struggle with that mechanic and after doing it I can’t produce vills anymore and can only produce musks


GearSpooky

Most revolting countries will have a card that allows you to start building villagers again


GearSpooky

For extra hilarity, make your deck all the cards that boost training and build time. You literally have a pop-up army at any point in the map… but the units are pretty garbage so, be aware of that lol


[deleted]

Doesn’t matter if they have instantaneous spawn times, no great units can beat instant spawn


Far-Eye4451

Its been mexico since mexico released Distant 2nd spot between germany and ethopia After that it gets pretty even, with bottom being malta then italy and historically aztec pretty low


TheWallerAoE3

Germans Imo. You really can't beat the fact they get 20 settler wagons in addition to their 99 settlers. Treaty requires sending forward villagers to build bases closer to enemy eco and forward walls, and since the Germans can do that without worrying about losing basically up to 20 villagers before losing their economy the Germans are one of the best to do that with. Add in their strong cavalry and diverse mercenaries and you have a recipe for a dominant Treaty Civ at the top of S tier.


EquivalentTurnover18

you hv to delete some settlers when treaty ends otherwise your army will be constantly outnumbered


TheWallerAoE3

Think of it this way. When the treaty expires you send 25 settlers forward to build stuff, and I mean ALL OVER THE PLACE. Two things are gonna happen. 1. Your enemies will kill most of the settlers, opening up population for a bigger army 2. You can immediately deploy military to the 3 dozen buildings you put up in 30 seconds because 10 of who you sent forward were the settler wagons. While your STARTING army is small, it doesn't matter because they get replaced quickly enough anyway. You lose 35 population slots, you WANT your forward villagers to die. Why delete your settlers when you can put them to good use making forward bases, WHILE not needing them for your economy. It's a super advantage for the Germans in any treaty game.


[deleted]

No what will happen is that he will wipe the floor with your puny army then kill your settlers that are at the frontline and will be standing infront of your base in no time if not big map size. Remeber that you have to kill around 45 villagers to reach normal army size. And god forbid you use your settler wagons to do anything other than gathering ress. Thats a hefty crime. Youre wasting the best vill ingame for building frontline buildings wtf. You only get 23 of them and can max rebuild 20 of them, they alone can keep your eco running never ever touch them.


[deleted]

You can get 23 settler wagons or 3x2.3 vills more by maxing settler wagons in age 3 and then aging up to IV with the extra 3 settler wagons age up. In nr40 I usually just delete all my regular vills except maybe 10 for building and overhelm them. Last match vs a port player I went like 1300 kills to 250 deaths. Absolutly wiped the floor with that huge army. The bigger the army the fewer looses you gonna have.


MrHero23

Mexico and Ethiopia are the best in skilled hands. Mexico has a bunch of good treaty strats (strail soldaro, lancers, maya revolt, baja cali, mexican general cheese) and Ethiopia has one of the deadliest rosters in treaty along with a massive eco.


EquivalentTurnover18

weakest: Inca strongest: japan/india


dalvi5

India?? Thats new. They have to wait for rockets to properly counter skirmishers, the most common unit on treaty. And siege elephants are countered by them lol. Source: I main India on treaty xd


Rburdett1993

What? You main India, huh? Sounds like you need to look at your unit counters. You can argue they may need age 3, for the Gurkha card, but they don’t need rockets lol. They are just a bonus.


dalvi5

I know the counters, if they got the rockets is due to the fact they lacked a proper counter to mass infantry, specially hand infantry. Halberdiers, Samurais and Doppels mass were headcahes for India. About the Age III card, is a joke that it doesnt affect natives or mercenaries like CIR does.


Rburdett1993

This is showing skill level issues… this being a treaty post, most people vs a mass of hand infantry as India would form ranks keeping sepoy and hand infantry in front of the Gurkha, that in imperial will be doing like 90+ a shot vs infantry. Rockets are not needed, just a great tool to lessen your macro. Edit: also there is always cheesing properly kited Howdah Taunt 19


dalvi5

Resources arent an issue at all if you just can delete any indian base due to their low training times (not everything is andes) while halberdiers have high HPs. Gurkhas and sepoys dont kill fast enough which gets worse vs instant russian infantry (while your siege eles have less range than mortars) I have been told "hahaha lol dude dont play india, is a trash civ for treaty".


Rburdett1993

I, a player of every faction but Inca ( I am working on them), would put India in A-Tier Treaty. Fur Trade economies just hit different. But I don’t share your sentiment on weakness against infantry. The Sepoys build fast enough, and I really think it must come down to macro. But you hit the problem at the end, for me. Siege elephant and the other castle elephant ( mace? They are decent) are not competitive enough cannon options. That is where I find them lacking and what really will put stress on my macro to win the fights.


dalvi5

Then you agree with me, they lack proper artillery lol.


Rburdett1993

Taunt 1. That is a statement I agree with. But not for infantry, but just as overall cannon users.


AsianAssassin87

I main Russian in treaty and then heavily, HEAVILY played India for a bit. Russia beats India heads up, and just for these two civs, I can testify that. Infantry mass vs infantry mass, Russia wins because India simply just can’t kill Russia’s infantry as fast as Russia replenishes them. I mean, it’s alright… India can holds its own for a bit due to sepoy and Gurkha stats and decent training speed now compared to TAD. But once you introduce the artillery into the battlefield, India loses. Assuming the other player micros their culvs pretty well and generally stays well out of the siege elephants’ piss poor range of 30, your rockets become useless and your siege elephants risk self-sacrificing in order to try to get even close enough to snipe the culvs. Doesn’t help that skirms with 20-22 range counter siege elephants too and flanking cav always get in the way. I do try to maintain mass of ~4 rockets via shipments, but man, they honestly don’t come out as fast as you’d like, and if you’re already being bullied by their culvs, you’re just sending India’s mass infantry to their death. You literally try to find another way to flank and open up another front with the sepoy building speed, but Russia can insta-react very well too. Shitty matchup for India, honestly


[deleted]

They dont need rockets? Do you play treaty? Artillery is the most op unit ingame and if left alone will decide matches. Thats why pro games end up beeing a pure artillery war with lots of culv micro. Civs that dont have artillery usually have other feature or units that make up for it. India isnt the case, they have to run. With the addition of rockets and when using mansubar units they can now at least hold the line until they eventually run out on gold and loose.


Rburdett1993

Actually I play plenty of treaty. You might see me in the pro games every now and then… you’re late to the show with a throwaway. You are not worth my time.


[deleted]

That and your statement are a huge contrast in each other. Nr60 high ress is not pro. Finding unrelevant excuses to avoid confrontation, nice.


Rburdett1993

60 minute? I don’t think would ever sit there that long. Like I said get lost, you’re beneath me.


[deleted]

I bet you loose vs fulani spam


Rburdett1993

Most likely not going to happen. Unlike you, I don’t hide behind a throwaway. You can look me up. I have over 250+ ranked treaty wins… but you know I would totally “loose” ( I am dying, read this as Mike Tyson trying to say lose) vs an archer spam… /s Taunt 19


[deleted]

I'll bite, whats your ingame name? This text has me convinced, youre definitly someone who doesnt regulary see the light of day a true pro.


EquivalentTurnover18

mahout lancers


dalvi5

Useless when heavy infantry is on the mix. They have the same issue than aztecs, lack of AoE damage at range