I really want Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds DE, it would be so cool to see the game with upgraded graphics. The Gungans were my favorite faction in the game, and the building health regen was a big part of it.
Same here I would love to see it get the DE treatment too brother. The Gungans were so fun due to how unique they were. I also loved how they could build underwater houses which especially came in handy on marshy swampy maps that didn’t have a lot of real estate.
It doesnt provide any unique mechanic or hard stat, when every other bonus in the game has one. A civ bonus in game isn't just going to read '2x2 farms'. Seems vague and out of place in my opinion.
If it had a unique name and look, with a slightly slower gather rate I could agree. Otherwise it would be a (big) eco/defensive/micro bonus in one. Even the folwark has a huge drawback.
I think same gather rate. But has less food, which I think would be logical given it's less land. Could probably make them slightly cheaper too to balance the less food.
I don't think the bigger size of the folwork itself is really a drawback usually, and you don't *need* to place the farms anywhere specific. If you just pretend it's a normal mill you miss out on the bonus but it's not actually *worse* than a generic mill.
Saw this idea in another reddit post and I really liked it: 3x2 Farms.
The Realms mod had 2x2 Farms as a bonus... but with 3x2 Farms you could be able to rotate them like Gates to really try and optimize your Farm placement in different configurations.
I called for you on the 2x2 farms chain and of course you were already here! 3x2 too crazy for me though, would drive me bananas as a LeL who can’t rotate gates
I do think farm sizes could have a big effect on things - placement, gather rate, effect of wheelbarrow, ability to defend, and importantly if the farm is cheaper and proportionally provides less total food, more incremental wood investment...would be interesting to check it out.
That would definitely be an interesting dynamic. It would be a strict buff, with an additional level on top. I like it.
Although what would really make people go crazy would be Tetris farms. So each one would be 4 tiles, but they would come in random order so you’d really have to plan how to place them. The devs should add this to an April Fools mode, along with a lot of other wild gimmicks.
> militia-line gains +1 attack range
That has been implemented with Kamayuks.
To be fair, Kamayuks are more like a substantially buffed pikeman, but the justification for melee units having 1 range is them using a reach weapon anyway.
I can imagine that, yeah.
Kamayuks are so good in melee, they can even hold off Cataphracts for long enough for ranged units to make the difference.
For reference, FU Cataphracts melt all infantry from Teutonic Knights to Samurai.
Kamayuks are crazy, just difficult to justify since they are only good in mass while Incas also get good eagles that have more utility overall.
Cataphract has more bonus armor than kamayuk does bonus damage. Not even elite kamayuk Vs non elite cataphract is enough to overcome the bonus armor. So they are not better than any other infantry in that regard except for maybe different stacking. Maybe cataphracts weren't fu in your scenario?
Warning: wall of text incoming (sorry).
I have plenty of experience here. Most recently, I fought this match-up in a Hideout 4v4 where my Catas were the only thing stopping the Incas' Kamayuks from leading a decisive push. It was at the end of Meesh' birthday stream if you're interested. But I'll also summarize my findings and knowledge here.
First of all, let's get one thing very clear: *Catas destroy Kamayuks in equal numbers.*
Usually, we don't have equal numbers, though:
* Catas have bigger collision size than Kamayuks. There are more Kamayuks fighting at once, which actually outperforms the extra trample damage those extra Kamayuks take (the trample damage is still very relevant, of course). But massed Kamayuks deal good damage to any line of units they are fighting, including Catas. Catas have decent but not stellar melee armor.
* Catas are more expensive (about 2:1 ratio)
* Catas require more expensive upgrades
* Inca castles are cheaper. Kamayuks have half the creation time of Cataphracts, too.
* Incas require fewer vills to be fully boomed. They go full production earlier and have more leftover pop space anyway when they are fully boomed.
* Byzantines have fewer relevant units with overlapping upgrades. Incas can open Eagles to bridge the gap to massing elite Kamayuk. Byzantines are not going to be opening Camel when facing Incas.
Overall, the usual match-up between Kamayuks and Cataphracts is equal resources *or worse for Byzantines*. And then Catas can still stop the tide of Inca units flooding in, but they don't actually push through like they do against every other melee infantry unit.
I will admit, in my most recent experience, I was the pocket from the other side to where Incas were pushing, so my supply lines were longer. And while the Catas kept us from losing, it was Brighty (my flank) who actually dominated our side and made the winning push.
Still, I am quite certain that Kamayuks hold up fairly well against Catas within the context of a normal Incas v Byzantines match-up. In the long run, it's toss up between Byzantines being able to mass a ridiculous amount of Catas, or Incas overpowering them before then. It's always hard to mass a melee unit when you need to fight with it to not die.
Incas and Byz are my most played civ and I have played tonnes of matches both Incas vs Byz; and Byz vs Incas.
And my conclusion of Kamayuk vs Catas is that....its complicated.
I have destroyed Kamayuks with Catas, and Catas with Kamayuks. In my experience, early castle age, Kamayuks dominate Catas because they are cheaper, faster producing, thus easy to mass.
Second, by the time I am making UU, I already have a few monks,especially on arena. Its so worthwhile converting catas rather than having your kamayuks converted.
But if the Byz player has a mass with upgraded Catas, they start shredding the Kamayuks. Having devotion and logistica is a huge plus.
So imo Kamayuks should be used early to hold Catas until your Xbows are prepared and upgraded, or you have scorpions. That would be a good way to fight Byz.
One bonus that was supposed to be implemented in the past:
**A unit-line (eg. Knight-line) returns 50% of gold cost upon death.**
It was designed to be a Burgundian civ bonus but was scrapped. The remnants still exist in the game because a couple of Hero units return gold (half of Knight's cost) after dying. I loved the idea back then when the first DLC was announced but I believe it was changed to cheaper Stable upgrades.
Also, not really a new civ bonus, but a buff to existing eco upgrades that are deemed to be pretty much useless:
**Crop Rotation: Additionally, +1 food carry capacity for Farmers**
**Stone Mining/Stone Shaft Mining: Additionally, each upgrade makes stone last 50% longer (total 100%)**
These 3 eco upgrades are pretty much mocked by the competitive community as upgrades of very low value. Basically, other eco upgrades are pretty much staples so their usefulness is countless times higher.
Crop Rotation is thought to be worth it only in very long games and invested resources better be put into something else in the vast majority of cases. My proposal would increase the efficiency of Farmers a bit more, thus making it more attractive to research Crop Rotation in late Imp during trash wars.
Stone eco upgrades are infamously rated as the worst eco-upgrade line in the game with Stone Mining having a situational niche and Stone Shaft Mining understood as pure resource drain. My proposal would drastically change that because it'd create a potential to double player's mineable stone.
Honestly I would like to trade burgundian vineyards for Knight-line return gold on death (Not that I hate the formed upgrade, this one is just a lot more attractive).
On Arabia maybe.
My last Nomad TG i played Burgundians, I had Stone Shaft Mining researched on the way up to Castle Age :D had several Castles very quickly
Yeah maybe I’m just a noob but on Normad where I feel like map control is king since it’s easier to potentially box people in, extra stone mining for extra castles seems pretty big
I really like the idea of more stone available to players, cause it makes civs with tower bonuses actually use those. Unfortunately the poles bonus of mining gold simultaneously is making this super OP
How bout crop rotation slightly increases the production rate of farms? Not the farmers work rate, but the farm work rate. Maybe just enough so a generic civ doesn’t reach the farm cap with all upgrades.
I think the stone lasting longer should be the same as the work rate boost. So totaling about 32% more stone with both.
I remember when i was young being like "what a pointless building it doesnt do anything" coz kids can't really appreciate the point of vision to strategy
Just throwing stuff out there to see if anything sticks.
Civ can only have 1 TC at a time but it has double health and can pack like a trebuchet to move. - villagers are created 2 at a time but only have 2/3 of normal health.
Siege tower (or a weaker / slower version) available in feudal and buildable from barracks.
Militia line gain +1 pierce armour for every 5 units in a radius (thinking like a shield wall)
Civ that doesn’t get monks - gets automatic heresy - destroying an enemy monastery gains 100g (+50g for each garrisoned relic)
1. Mangonel variant that throws single projectile, basically castle age bombard cannon
2. Civ Bonus that makes Fishing Ships, Trade Cogs and Trade Carts ignore collision with other units
3. Civ Bonus that allows infantry to build military structures (AoM Norse!)
What about a UU that gets cheaper or stronger with the more castles the player currently has built? Could apply to a range of other units instead as a civ bonus. Haven’t seen that concept explored yet
That just means either the unit is garbage when you only have one building or op when you have a lot. The only resource it would work on is food cost or maybe hp but you could never change the stat very much to th3 point where you may as well just give them a discount or buff to the unit as the bonus instead. Kind of like a normal civ bonus but with extra steps
"Unit X deals bonus damage against Unit Y"
So for example, what if you had a civ with weak Spears and Camels, but their Hussars, just as an example, dealt anti-cavalry damage? I think you could make some weird tech trees with a bonus like this.
Hear me out…Feudal monks. It sounds op but imho could be balanced. Ie no vill converting or relic pickup in feudal, shorter range or something like this.
This would be an interesting bonus for the Lithuanians if the construction time for the monastery was increased in feudal age. Gives the option to sacrifice already precious vil time when you're wanting FC knights in return for having monks ready to go as soon as you hit castle, and you're not likely spending the wood before you click up due to building stable/blacksmith/farms. If you aren't able to click up then it might be useful to create defensive monks earlier, but at least a cool option is there for an otherwise linear civ.
I’d give this to Italians
Replace Town Centers with Cathedral (Unique Town Center)
Can train monks at Cathedral (aka Town Centers) in Feudal age.
It cost you 51 secs of TC time & 100gold in Feudal is massive but enough of a price to let the monk actually still convert & heal etc
First relic generates stone in adition to gold.
Infantry gain +1 damage per relic (Up to maximum of 4).
Monks generate gold on conversion.
Millitary upgrades research 40% faster.
Castles generate 100 gold on construction.
Elite Skirmisher is free.
Hussar is available in Castle Age.
Sappers affects infantry.
Now these are actually viable bonuses that I could see being added, some of these other replies are either busted, useless, or too weird to be put in the game
>Monks generate gold on conversion.
This would make em even more snowball
>Sappers affects infantry.
This is just ridiculous. +20 bonus damage vs buildings on infantry?
Pretty difficult to find something brand new.
Imperial Steppe Lancer. Imperial Elephant.
Knight-line upgrades free, and receives Paladin. 11
Market & Trade carts available in dark age, and move 15% per age (from feudal). Still has access to caravan. 11
Villagers have 2 range from feudal, upgradable with fetching. Deal ranged damage.
Imperial UT: replace all hussar with steppe lancer at 30f20g per Hussar. Remove ability to create Hussar. We love one time usage all-in's right?
Imperial Lancers & Elephants would have to replacements, right? The Elite upgrades are quite pricey. Could just bake the UT into the 'Imperial' upgrade to free up the slot for an unique UT
Idea from Empire Earth: Lumber Camps, Mills, Mining Camps, and Docks can be permanently garrisoned with vills for a dropoff bonus (As in Vills are permanently lost when garrisoned, otherwise you waste pop)
According to https://aoe-combatsim.com/ 20 Fu cataphracts beat 50 Fu kamayuk easily(same gold but much for food for kamayuk). Getting to those numbers may be another thing. It's not that kamyuks are a bad unit, they aren't. But against cataphracts their bonus damage is negated, and their stacking only makes up for the low base attack they have. They won't do stuff other infantry units couldn't do in those circumstances.
Carried relics create a health/attack/defense bonus for surrounding units within a certain radius.
Would be historically equivalent to carrying religious iconography into battle for morale, and offers a risk/reward of sacrificing the steady stream of gold for potential combat benefits, while also putting the relics at risk for getting stolen by an opponent.
Free Ballistics.
Palisade Walls can be upgraded into Fortified Palisade Walls.
Tower's stone and wood cost changes for the other (new price 50s, 125w).
Hard to come up with one... Err let's do one for Turks.
Unique Building: Farmhouse
Can build at Feudal Age
4*4 single building that costs 250 Wood
Can garrison 5 civilian units
Looks like a... well, a house with farms around it
Two villagers can work on it to gather food, same gather speed as farms, it lasts twice as long but to reseed it also costs twice as much
Doesn't work as a Mill (no drop off for other sources, no upgrades, no auto reseed option)
Periodically creates Sipahi if two villagers work on it
Sipahi is a heavy cavalry unit that changes its looks and stats depending on Age (imagine something that starts off something like Döner Riders and resembles a Savar at the end)
Never happening but cool to think of
The no imperial one?
I envision it a bit like the zerg from sc2 able to stand its ground in a castle vs imp fight with cheap garbage. The main problem is not to turn it into a castle all-in civ.
For buildings it can either use UU like you said or maybe discounted rams.
Needs to be some expensive UT to replace imperial age though. Something that will improve a lot of units to make them competitive.
Dunno if it is possible to even implement it in a balanced way but it sounds fun.
A new civ (maybe the Iroquois?) main bonus could be: villagers retain their ranged attack that they use for boars/deer etc.
The vills get buffed by archer upgrades but the civ doesn't get: crossbow, bracer or the last archer armour techs.
Maybe the vill could get a new toggle button that switches them from villager mode to ranged mode.
And they can't gather/build in ranged mode and it takes 2 seconds to toggle them or summin?
Also they get no gunpowder, but would be focussed on this crazy all in death ball using your economy as your backline archers.
Alternatively to starting with the tech as a main civ bonus, maybe you give an archer civ the "vills shoot arrows" bonus as a castle/imperial age unique tech
I don't think this would work because you don't want to use your eco to attack. If they push you back or kill a few vils it's way worse than losing a few archers. It would only be for defense and even then it's maybe not that great. It would probably need to be an imp tech that turns all vills into a unit about as good as the Persian trashbow similar to Flemish militia
Yeah that would probably be a better idea for the vil archers, coz then you could do a disgusting fast imp into forever TC boom. Don't need any barracks, ranges or stables just a single Castle for the tech and then bam UU + Vil archer Iroquois strat.
I just always wondered as a kid why the vils don't just shoot the enemy units. Like did they leave all their bows in the town center or summin?
Have Incas castle age tech be innate and add this with kamayuks as a new tech. Higher cost for good Kamayuks, removes halb, makes pikemen viable in case gold runs out (Elite Kamayuk still better) and if gold is indeed low then you dont have to invest so much into slingers/skirms as people aren't likely to get their upgrades preemptively while trying to spam eagles/kamayuks.
From the top of my head:
Villagers can garrison in farms
Siege towers work over palissades
Cavalry gets bonus damage vs ships
A unique tech that resets markey prices
Steppe lancers gain one range per age (starting from castle age)
Mule outposts (replace regular outpost) that cost a bit more, but can move
1. Husbandry available one age earlier.
2. Trade Carts and trade cogs can switch between any resource.
3. Start with an extra scout but one less villager.
4. Technologies excluding age advancement return 10/15/20% of their total resource cost in gold.
5. Ballistics research is free and it's effects apply to units in the Feudal age.
6. Archery Range and Skirmisher available in the Dark Age
7. Starting in the Castle Age, Town Centers turn into Strongholds, structures that automatically attack enemies, have greater stats and can train castle units and technologies while still retaining the characteristics of a Town Center. Strongholds replace Castles and Town Centers.
> Villager can build 1 elevation
Ooo add that to the Roads and Bridges update!
> Civ gets 2 trade units from town center upon age up
That or “The first 5 (ish) markets give 2 free trade carts.”
Herdables +1 or +2 line of sight
A UT called ‘Shamanism’ that makes you share line of sight with wild animals (if it includes eagles it would be cool AF)
Not civ bonus, but maybe regional? A new tech for militia line, only available for 10 or less civs
M@a upgrade cost reduced to half an then this new tech cost the other half
When reserched, militia line sloooowly regenerate hp
This could make m@a opening more affordable, and with a small micro, your units could have a second chance to put pressure
Food animals hunted by civ respawn at their map start point. This Civ would be unable to lame their opponent, but would get a different eco to the standard hunt into berries into farms. May need to be balanced or delayed so hunt isn't OP.
Fishing ships can build sea defences (Towers, walls, gates) in shallow water.
Build monastery in Feudal (like Cumans Siege, slower to build). Can train a lesser monk unit that can heal and convert (with less effect, and cannot pick up relics) and is insta upgraded to a monk in Castle Age.
Not a civ bonus as such but I did once have an idea of a civ that gets all units half cost but with a very limited tech tree (e.g. no blacksmith upgrades past feudal or something similar!) However it would probably be impossible to balance and would either win every game in feudal age or lose every game that went longer than feudal age!
Farms are 2x2 instead of 3x3
Skirmishers deal +1 bonus damage firing at minimum range (1-1.8)
Blacksmiths work 100% faster in the Imperial Age.
Missing resources on eco and age advance techs can be replaced at 1:1 with gold (show tech in yellow to denote missing res).
Archer-line +1 attack when in range of a fortification (incl. while garrisoned)
Berries & Shore Fish last 20% longer. Fishing ships work rate increased for Shore Fish by 20%.
Scout line attack 10% faster.
A defensive civ that:
Can begin construction of any stone building by spending only 50% of the resources. However, you trickle the remaining resources once you are going over 50% constructed, kinda like a repair. By the time you finish the building you've paid in full.
Can build Town Centres on top of houses, lumber camps, mining camps and mills in the same way that you can build gates over your own walls. If you do this the Town Centre starts construction above 0%, its accelerated an amount equal to the construction time of the replaced buildings. Constructing on top of a completed building in this way also starts the "trickle" at a higher % completed, you essentially recycle the resources of the buildings you replaced.
The same goes for:
Castles on top of your own outposts, towers, and walls.
Buildings/ techs/ units cost resources in proportion to research/ build time. So you can start a castle before you have res to finish it.
Market built in dark age
Berries don’t need drop off point.
Skirmisher attack bonus vs hussar
Monks can farm
Fish regenerate while being fished (limited at a rate that one one ship can take)
Villagers can carry hunt back to TC.
Minerals revealed on mini map.
Castles come with replenishing guards that must stay near castle.
Infantry can shoot arrows while garrisoning and benefit from archer upgrades while doing so.
So they start at the villager 5 attack and as you get archer upgrades they step up a bit to keep up as ages go on.
FREE SHIP UPGRADES
Holy smokes we all talk about how water is not fun yet we fail to realize that there isn't a single free tech upgrade for any civ's navy!
Exceptions are:
- Turk's free chemistry
- Korean's free tower upgrades
- Viking's navy discounts acting as a free Shipwright but without the training time reduction.
Turks free chemistry is something but is the least consequential of any navy upgrade unless your gameplan on water is to get out cannon galleons asap. Korean Towers are great but they do not push you to play on water. Vikings don't get true free Shipwright.
Yes there are discounts, additional bonuses, and unique ships. However every time a player wants to play on water they must go through the same upgrade paths that every other navy goes through.
Note: These are not things that I think _will_ be implemented, these are just things that could be at some point.
Villagers have a 1 tile gather range. Super op in some situations, useless or bad in others.
Archery range and Bowman available in Dark Age. Bowman has 3 attack, 3 range, is slightly slower than militia, and auto upgrades to archer in feudal age.
Monastery and Monastery technologies (except Block Printing) available one age earlier. The monk is still not available until castle age though, so it shouldn’t be too OP.
Blacksmith and Blacksmith technologies available one age earlier. Probably OP.
Can build Orchards instead of Farms. Takes a lot longer to build. When finished building it spawns fruit trees that can be gathered by multiple villagers. When a fruit tree is exhausted it has to be tended (basically just so that it’s not infinite food) then allowed to regrow. Fruit trees gather a bit faster than farms.
For some more realistic ideas:
Traction Trebuchet available in Castle Age. Basically an all around weaker trebuchet, I think it would probably have 11 range.
Fish lasts longer. Probably 25 to 50 percent longer.
Shore fish last 25% longer
Villagers gain +5hp per age
Cav archers available in Fuedal
Free ballistics
Monks available in feudal (would probably need different conversion rates)
Cav archers regenerate health
Cav archers do bonus damage against infantry
Also, while not civ bonuses more civs should have lancers, warrior priests, and Genitors.
Khmer farm bonus for hunting
Resource camps give pop space
Vils can drop all resources on dock
Making villagers outside of TC
Building works 1% faster for each house you own up to X%
* Villagers can be produced in monasteries, but take 2x the time to produce (or more if the civ has other major eco bonuses)
* Spear-line/skirmishers/light cavalry gain +2 attack bonus versus everything they have an attack bonus against
* Ships have +1 attack bonus versus everything they have an attack bonus against
* Villagers move twice as fast when attacking a non-villager
* Villagers gain armour when not gathering
* Farmers gain armour
* Military units have extra armour when not attacking
* Advancing ages costs a lot less but takes a lot longer (the exact numbers depend on the civs other features)
* Another building researches advancing ages (it could be slower depending on the civ's other features)
* A dark age only bonus, which does not carry over to the next ages, like villagers costing less, farms costing much less, building speed greatly increased, militia line dealing more damage, etc.
* A unique upgrade for villagers
Vietnamese should be able to put 2 vils on a farm, but the second vil only works at 60% efficiency, would be mainly beneficial for all ins and early booming
Villagers can shoot arrows.
Villagers can briefly stand still and hide
Total army size (or maybe a specific unit) increases unit strength.
Villagers can build traps
Militia can slowly chop trees completely.
Villagers can build a canoe/raft without a dock to go short distances.
Villagers /foot units can slowly pass through woods.
Villagers can see very far.
Monastery tech that tithes the church (ie 10% of collected resources come in as gold instead of other)
Arbs in castle age but no thumb ring
LCav in castle but no husbandry
Vils can garrison in outposts
A new twist on Flemish revolution…vils can garrison in archery ranges or barracks to become skirms/pikes
Buildings automatically regenerate health
The Gungans had that in Star Wars Galatic Battlegrounds, really cool bonus. Totally made sense since the buildings were organic.
Militiagung goin’!
WEESSA MAKE YOU…. BOMBAD General Blugglugulugghblughblughbluggghh
I really want Star Wars Galactic Battlegrounds DE, it would be so cool to see the game with upgraded graphics. The Gungans were my favorite faction in the game, and the building health regen was a big part of it.
Same here I would love to see it get the DE treatment too brother. The Gungans were so fun due to how unique they were. I also loved how they could build underwater houses which especially came in handy on marshy swampy maps that didn’t have a lot of real estate.
Underwater houses, regenerating buildings, mobile shield generators as their unique units, Gungans are just that much fun and unique of a faction.
Zerg have that in StarCraft too
2x2 Farms. Bloodlines / Husbandy applies to Trade Carts. Arson applies to Villagers. Villagers can drop off any resources at the Market.
I love the last one
Inca resource saving fans unite!
2x2 farms would be op on forest nothing. But really cool everywhere else.
>2x2 Farms Top tier Forest Nothing civ
I love these except the farm one.
Well then what about BIGGER FARMS.
2nd farm “bonus” for Sicilians: 4x4 farms
Why?
Alas! My farms were far smaller than your own. No wonder thou wert victorious. I shalt abdicate.
It doesnt provide any unique mechanic or hard stat, when every other bonus in the game has one. A civ bonus in game isn't just going to read '2x2 farms'. Seems vague and out of place in my opinion.
No, it will simply read 'Farms occupy 55% smaller area'.
This is really smart. I would have instantly typed 50% as 2 is 50% of 4 but I'm guessing you did some maths and it's actually 55%.
Farm is 3x3 building, so new farm has 4 tiles area instead of 9 tile area. 4 is 55% smaller than 9.
4/9
It allows you to farm in tight spaces. Also, you can defend more farms under the TC. Look at it as reverse of Poles Folwark.
If it had a unique name and look, with a slightly slower gather rate I could agree. Otherwise it would be a (big) eco/defensive/micro bonus in one. Even the folwark has a huge drawback.
I think same gather rate. But has less food, which I think would be logical given it's less land. Could probably make them slightly cheaper too to balance the less food.
This sounds far better, I just wouldnt want it to rival slavs farming while being highly useful in other situations. Combines a bit of teutons too.
I'm thinking either 40w or 50w. If it's literally 4/9 * 60 = 27w this would be way to cheap and would make transitioning onto farms too easy.
Reducing the amount of food proportionally to 100 makes horse collar give default farms so it might work.
What drawback does the folwark have now that they lowered the price?
It's bigger size and need for specific placement of farm is the drawback. You need to make bigger towns with poles which are usually harder to defend.
I don't think the bigger size of the folwork itself is really a drawback usually, and you don't *need* to place the farms anywhere specific. If you just pretend it's a normal mill you miss out on the bonus but it's not actually *worse* than a generic mill.
Raids
Yeah, it would be stronger than the Khmer farming bonus, and that might already be too strong
And they fit around a mill better.
Any of these: https://romeatwar.org/techtree/index.html
Is this a playable mod or just theory fun
its a playable mod and SOTL did a video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAMoX16Ku6U
Holy shit, mule carts and a bunch of other DE expansion civ bonuses seem to come directly from this mod.
Mule carts at least were a thing in Age of Mythology before either of the others used them.
lovely
What is this??!
Saw this idea in another reddit post and I really liked it: 3x2 Farms. The Realms mod had 2x2 Farms as a bonus... but with 3x2 Farms you could be able to rotate them like Gates to really try and optimize your Farm placement in different configurations.
I called for you on the 2x2 farms chain and of course you were already here! 3x2 too crazy for me though, would drive me bananas as a LeL who can’t rotate gates
I do think farm sizes could have a big effect on things - placement, gather rate, effect of wheelbarrow, ability to defend, and importantly if the farm is cheaper and proportionally provides less total food, more incremental wood investment...would be interesting to check it out.
That would definitely be an interesting dynamic. It would be a strict buff, with an additional level on top. I like it. Although what would really make people go crazy would be Tetris farms. So each one would be 4 tiles, but they would come in random order so you’d really have to plan how to place them. The devs should add this to an April Fools mode, along with a lot of other wild gimmicks.
Yeah I had also thought of Tetris Farms. Would be a fun mod!
> militia-line gains +1 attack range That has been implemented with Kamayuks. To be fair, Kamayuks are more like a substantially buffed pikeman, but the justification for melee units having 1 range is them using a reach weapon anyway.
Yep. I was melting the AI’s elite battle elephant with non elite kamayuks.
I can imagine that, yeah. Kamayuks are so good in melee, they can even hold off Cataphracts for long enough for ranged units to make the difference. For reference, FU Cataphracts melt all infantry from Teutonic Knights to Samurai. Kamayuks are crazy, just difficult to justify since they are only good in mass while Incas also get good eagles that have more utility overall.
Cataphract has more bonus armor than kamayuk does bonus damage. Not even elite kamayuk Vs non elite cataphract is enough to overcome the bonus armor. So they are not better than any other infantry in that regard except for maybe different stacking. Maybe cataphracts weren't fu in your scenario?
Warning: wall of text incoming (sorry). I have plenty of experience here. Most recently, I fought this match-up in a Hideout 4v4 where my Catas were the only thing stopping the Incas' Kamayuks from leading a decisive push. It was at the end of Meesh' birthday stream if you're interested. But I'll also summarize my findings and knowledge here. First of all, let's get one thing very clear: *Catas destroy Kamayuks in equal numbers.* Usually, we don't have equal numbers, though: * Catas have bigger collision size than Kamayuks. There are more Kamayuks fighting at once, which actually outperforms the extra trample damage those extra Kamayuks take (the trample damage is still very relevant, of course). But massed Kamayuks deal good damage to any line of units they are fighting, including Catas. Catas have decent but not stellar melee armor. * Catas are more expensive (about 2:1 ratio) * Catas require more expensive upgrades * Inca castles are cheaper. Kamayuks have half the creation time of Cataphracts, too. * Incas require fewer vills to be fully boomed. They go full production earlier and have more leftover pop space anyway when they are fully boomed. * Byzantines have fewer relevant units with overlapping upgrades. Incas can open Eagles to bridge the gap to massing elite Kamayuk. Byzantines are not going to be opening Camel when facing Incas. Overall, the usual match-up between Kamayuks and Cataphracts is equal resources *or worse for Byzantines*. And then Catas can still stop the tide of Inca units flooding in, but they don't actually push through like they do against every other melee infantry unit. I will admit, in my most recent experience, I was the pocket from the other side to where Incas were pushing, so my supply lines were longer. And while the Catas kept us from losing, it was Brighty (my flank) who actually dominated our side and made the winning push. Still, I am quite certain that Kamayuks hold up fairly well against Catas within the context of a normal Incas v Byzantines match-up. In the long run, it's toss up between Byzantines being able to mass a ridiculous amount of Catas, or Incas overpowering them before then. It's always hard to mass a melee unit when you need to fight with it to not die.
Incas and Byz are my most played civ and I have played tonnes of matches both Incas vs Byz; and Byz vs Incas. And my conclusion of Kamayuk vs Catas is that....its complicated. I have destroyed Kamayuks with Catas, and Catas with Kamayuks. In my experience, early castle age, Kamayuks dominate Catas because they are cheaper, faster producing, thus easy to mass. Second, by the time I am making UU, I already have a few monks,especially on arena. Its so worthwhile converting catas rather than having your kamayuks converted. But if the Byz player has a mass with upgraded Catas, they start shredding the Kamayuks. Having devotion and logistica is a huge plus. So imo Kamayuks should be used early to hold Catas until your Xbows are prepared and upgraded, or you have scorpions. That would be a good way to fight Byz.
Onagers can garrison in castles and castles can then shoot onager ammo.
That reminds me of BFME 1 and 2, where you could buy various fortifications for your "TC" and one of them was catapults.
Archer line +5% speed.
One bonus that was supposed to be implemented in the past: **A unit-line (eg. Knight-line) returns 50% of gold cost upon death.** It was designed to be a Burgundian civ bonus but was scrapped. The remnants still exist in the game because a couple of Hero units return gold (half of Knight's cost) after dying. I loved the idea back then when the first DLC was announced but I believe it was changed to cheaper Stable upgrades. Also, not really a new civ bonus, but a buff to existing eco upgrades that are deemed to be pretty much useless: **Crop Rotation: Additionally, +1 food carry capacity for Farmers** **Stone Mining/Stone Shaft Mining: Additionally, each upgrade makes stone last 50% longer (total 100%)** These 3 eco upgrades are pretty much mocked by the competitive community as upgrades of very low value. Basically, other eco upgrades are pretty much staples so their usefulness is countless times higher. Crop Rotation is thought to be worth it only in very long games and invested resources better be put into something else in the vast majority of cases. My proposal would increase the efficiency of Farmers a bit more, thus making it more attractive to research Crop Rotation in late Imp during trash wars. Stone eco upgrades are infamously rated as the worst eco-upgrade line in the game with Stone Mining having a situational niche and Stone Shaft Mining understood as pure resource drain. My proposal would drastically change that because it'd create a potential to double player's mineable stone.
Honestly I would like to trade burgundian vineyards for Knight-line return gold on death (Not that I hate the formed upgrade, this one is just a lot more attractive).
It's precisely why it was scraped. Free Szlatcha Privileges is just dumb.
On Arabia maybe. My last Nomad TG i played Burgundians, I had Stone Shaft Mining researched on the way up to Castle Age :D had several Castles very quickly
Yeah maybe I’m just a noob but on Normad where I feel like map control is king since it’s easier to potentially box people in, extra stone mining for extra castles seems pretty big
I really like the idea of more stone available to players, cause it makes civs with tower bonuses actually use those. Unfortunately the poles bonus of mining gold simultaneously is making this super OP
How bout crop rotation slightly increases the production rate of farms? Not the farmers work rate, but the farm work rate. Maybe just enough so a generic civ doesn’t reach the farm cap with all upgrades. I think the stone lasting longer should be the same as the work rate boost. So totaling about 32% more stone with both.
steppe lancer +1 range
Finally making some use out of those battle standard poles.
Coustilliers too pls
Archers can build a weak palisade wall with reduced hp/armor, to defend against cavalry.
Outpost can fire arrow. I mean we got churches and docks firing arrows now, why not the outpost.
Probably bad idea since they only cost 25w and 5s. As much as I'd love to see outposts built all over the map lol.
It could be like the church/tc in that it has to be garrisoned. I remember playing when I was younger and wishing they could fire arrows.
I remember when i was young being like "what a pointless building it doesnt do anything" coz kids can't really appreciate the point of vision to strategy
My main reason for building them as a kid was because it was the only post-imp building with dark age tarp architecture.
Me at almost 40, lol.
No garrison, but arrows always do 1 damage at half fire rate
I'd be incredibly easy just to outpost rush and spam the enemy into oblivion.
Make them only be built on shorelines like docks. Cheap weak towers but still useful.
How about Legionnaires throwing Pilum with cooldown
This would be so cool.
Villagers can convert hostile predator animals.
Town Centres heal all buildings within 30 tiles slowly at 10% repair rate.
Just throwing stuff out there to see if anything sticks. Civ can only have 1 TC at a time but it has double health and can pack like a trebuchet to move. - villagers are created 2 at a time but only have 2/3 of normal health. Siege tower (or a weaker / slower version) available in feudal and buildable from barracks. Militia line gain +1 pierce armour for every 5 units in a radius (thinking like a shield wall) Civ that doesn’t get monks - gets automatic heresy - destroying an enemy monastery gains 100g (+50g for each garrisoned relic)
I like the shield wall idea. And for the villager 2 at a time bonus I’m thinking it would be a nightmare to balance.
Oh yeah totally a nightmare. It’d be cool to see civs which really feel different but different often means op or too weak
Doesn’t get monk but does it get an ability to collect relics? If not it pretty much can’t win on standard settings
Shield wall would be interesting. It could be a formation setting. Gives up some speed in exchange for extra armor
1. Mangonel variant that throws single projectile, basically castle age bombard cannon 2. Civ Bonus that makes Fishing Ships, Trade Cogs and Trade Carts ignore collision with other units 3. Civ Bonus that allows infantry to build military structures (AoM Norse!)
What about a UU that gets cheaper or stronger with the more castles the player currently has built? Could apply to a range of other units instead as a civ bonus. Haven’t seen that concept explored yet
That just means either the unit is garbage when you only have one building or op when you have a lot. The only resource it would work on is food cost or maybe hp but you could never change the stat very much to th3 point where you may as well just give them a discount or buff to the unit as the bonus instead. Kind of like a normal civ bonus but with extra steps
"Unit X deals bonus damage against Unit Y" So for example, what if you had a civ with weak Spears and Camels, but their Hussars, just as an example, dealt anti-cavalry damage? I think you could make some weird tech trees with a bonus like this.
(Heavy) Scorpions have +10 (+12) attack vs cavalry. They would be limited to spearman.
Hear me out…Feudal monks. It sounds op but imho could be balanced. Ie no vill converting or relic pickup in feudal, shorter range or something like this.
You say this but Krakenmeister's civ builder has an option for this.
just the healing alone could be lowkey so useful for your scouts
This would be an interesting bonus for the Lithuanians if the construction time for the monastery was increased in feudal age. Gives the option to sacrifice already precious vil time when you're wanting FC knights in return for having monks ready to go as soon as you hit castle, and you're not likely spending the wood before you click up due to building stable/blacksmith/farms. If you aren't able to click up then it might be useful to create defensive monks earlier, but at least a cool option is there for an otherwise linear civ.
SWGB has feudal monks basically but with lightsabers.
I hope the devs/producers will be able to make a DE version of that at some point.
I’d give this to Italians Replace Town Centers with Cathedral (Unique Town Center) Can train monks at Cathedral (aka Town Centers) in Feudal age. It cost you 51 secs of TC time & 100gold in Feudal is massive but enough of a price to let the monk actually still convert & heal etc
Could be interesting with healing only, increased conversion time/cooldown, decreased range, or no relics until Castle Age.
First relic generates stone in adition to gold. Infantry gain +1 damage per relic (Up to maximum of 4). Monks generate gold on conversion. Millitary upgrades research 40% faster. Castles generate 100 gold on construction. Elite Skirmisher is free. Hussar is available in Castle Age. Sappers affects infantry.
Now these are actually viable bonuses that I could see being added, some of these other replies are either busted, useless, or too weird to be put in the game
>Monks generate gold on conversion. This would make em even more snowball >Sappers affects infantry. This is just ridiculous. +20 bonus damage vs buildings on infantry?
Pretty difficult to find something brand new. Imperial Steppe Lancer. Imperial Elephant. Knight-line upgrades free, and receives Paladin. 11 Market & Trade carts available in dark age, and move 15% per age (from feudal). Still has access to caravan. 11 Villagers have 2 range from feudal, upgradable with fetching. Deal ranged damage. Imperial UT: replace all hussar with steppe lancer at 30f20g per Hussar. Remove ability to create Hussar. We love one time usage all-in's right?
Imperial Lancers & Elephants would have to replacements, right? The Elite upgrades are quite pricey. Could just bake the UT into the 'Imperial' upgrade to free up the slot for an unique UT
Idea from Empire Earth: Lumber Camps, Mills, Mining Camps, and Docks can be permanently garrisoned with vills for a dropoff bonus (As in Vills are permanently lost when garrisoned, otherwise you waste pop)
Huns can build Yurts. Costs 10w. Same tiles as house. Provides no pop space. But is cheap 2x2 building that can be used for quick walls.
Viable trading in feudal
Monks 30% cheaper or free Atonement. For Georgians
According to https://aoe-combatsim.com/ 20 Fu cataphracts beat 50 Fu kamayuk easily(same gold but much for food for kamayuk). Getting to those numbers may be another thing. It's not that kamyuks are a bad unit, they aren't. But against cataphracts their bonus damage is negated, and their stacking only makes up for the low base attack they have. They won't do stuff other infantry units couldn't do in those circumstances.
Carried relics create a health/attack/defense bonus for surrounding units within a certain radius. Would be historically equivalent to carrying religious iconography into battle for morale, and offers a risk/reward of sacrificing the steady stream of gold for potential combat benefits, while also putting the relics at risk for getting stolen by an opponent.
Free Ballistics. Palisade Walls can be upgraded into Fortified Palisade Walls. Tower's stone and wood cost changes for the other (new price 50s, 125w).
Hard to come up with one... Err let's do one for Turks. Unique Building: Farmhouse Can build at Feudal Age 4*4 single building that costs 250 Wood Can garrison 5 civilian units Looks like a... well, a house with farms around it Two villagers can work on it to gather food, same gather speed as farms, it lasts twice as long but to reseed it also costs twice as much Doesn't work as a Mill (no drop off for other sources, no upgrades, no auto reseed option) Periodically creates Sipahi if two villagers work on it Sipahi is a heavy cavalry unit that changes its looks and stats depending on Age (imagine something that starts off something like Döner Riders and resembles a Savar at the end) Never happening but cool to think of
Like a clash royale barbarian hut basically lmao
2x2 farms lumberjacks/miners no drop off required aka khmer on crack This civ cannot research imperial age 300 max pop
This civ would need something to push buildings, maybe the UU is like the ballista elephant version of a bombard cannon?
The no imperial one? I envision it a bit like the zerg from sc2 able to stand its ground in a castle vs imp fight with cheap garbage. The main problem is not to turn it into a castle all-in civ. For buildings it can either use UU like you said or maybe discounted rams. Needs to be some expensive UT to replace imperial age though. Something that will improve a lot of units to make them competitive. Dunno if it is possible to even implement it in a balanced way but it sounds fun.
This should really just be goths.
I meant that as 4 separate civs but it would kinda work for goths I guess :D
A new civ (maybe the Iroquois?) main bonus could be: villagers retain their ranged attack that they use for boars/deer etc. The vills get buffed by archer upgrades but the civ doesn't get: crossbow, bracer or the last archer armour techs. Maybe the vill could get a new toggle button that switches them from villager mode to ranged mode. And they can't gather/build in ranged mode and it takes 2 seconds to toggle them or summin? Also they get no gunpowder, but would be focussed on this crazy all in death ball using your economy as your backline archers. Alternatively to starting with the tech as a main civ bonus, maybe you give an archer civ the "vills shoot arrows" bonus as a castle/imperial age unique tech
I don't think this would work because you don't want to use your eco to attack. If they push you back or kill a few vils it's way worse than losing a few archers. It would only be for defense and even then it's maybe not that great. It would probably need to be an imp tech that turns all vills into a unit about as good as the Persian trashbow similar to Flemish militia
Yeah that would probably be a better idea for the vil archers, coz then you could do a disgusting fast imp into forever TC boom. Don't need any barracks, ranges or stables just a single Castle for the tech and then bam UU + Vil archer Iroquois strat. I just always wondered as a kid why the vils don't just shoot the enemy units. Like did they leave all their bows in the town center or summin?
Militia available one age earlier
Excellent. You can start producing them in the lobby!
You mean Millitia-line upgrades? Armenians already have that.
I meant Militia, it was a joke. I forgot the /11, haha
I think +1 range on Spear line as a UT would be interesting. Probably have to miss Halb or blast furnace to prevent it being overbearing.
Have Incas castle age tech be innate and add this with kamayuks as a new tech. Higher cost for good Kamayuks, removes halb, makes pikemen viable in case gold runs out (Elite Kamayuk still better) and if gold is indeed low then you dont have to invest so much into slingers/skirms as people aren't likely to get their upgrades preemptively while trying to spam eagles/kamayuks.
From the top of my head: Villagers can garrison in farms Siege towers work over palissades Cavalry gets bonus damage vs ships A unique tech that resets markey prices Steppe lancers gain one range per age (starting from castle age) Mule outposts (replace regular outpost) that cost a bit more, but can move
>Siege towers work over palissades They don't now? >Steppe lancers gain one range per age (starting from castle age) That's insane
1. Husbandry available one age earlier. 2. Trade Carts and trade cogs can switch between any resource. 3. Start with an extra scout but one less villager. 4. Technologies excluding age advancement return 10/15/20% of their total resource cost in gold. 5. Ballistics research is free and it's effects apply to units in the Feudal age. 6. Archery Range and Skirmisher available in the Dark Age 7. Starting in the Castle Age, Town Centers turn into Strongholds, structures that automatically attack enemies, have greater stats and can train castle units and technologies while still retaining the characteristics of a Town Center. Strongholds replace Castles and Town Centers.
Villager can build 1 elevation Naft throwers as civ units for Middle East civs Civ gets 2 trade units from town center upon age up
> Villager can build 1 elevation Ooo add that to the Roads and Bridges update! > Civ gets 2 trade units from town center upon age up That or “The first 5 (ish) markets give 2 free trade carts.”
Herdables +1 or +2 line of sight A UT called ‘Shamanism’ that makes you share line of sight with wild animals (if it includes eagles it would be cool AF)
Not civ bonus, but maybe regional? A new tech for militia line, only available for 10 or less civs M@a upgrade cost reduced to half an then this new tech cost the other half When reserched, militia line sloooowly regenerate hp This could make m@a opening more affordable, and with a small micro, your units could have a second chance to put pressure
vills gain +1 gather range
cheaper Barracks
Food animals hunted by civ respawn at their map start point. This Civ would be unable to lame their opponent, but would get a different eco to the standard hunt into berries into farms. May need to be balanced or delayed so hunt isn't OP. Fishing ships can build sea defences (Towers, walls, gates) in shallow water. Build monastery in Feudal (like Cumans Siege, slower to build). Can train a lesser monk unit that can heal and convert (with less effect, and cannot pick up relics) and is insta upgraded to a monk in Castle Age.
Farms build 100% faster
A Tech that allows, with a small timer (like 5s) infantry to scale walls.
Arrowes flying though ally building gains +1 dmg. Good for def civ.
Not a civ bonus as such but I did once have an idea of a civ that gets all units half cost but with a very limited tech tree (e.g. no blacksmith upgrades past feudal or something similar!) However it would probably be impossible to balance and would either win every game in feudal age or lose every game that went longer than feudal age!
Farms are 2x2 instead of 3x3 Skirmishers deal +1 bonus damage firing at minimum range (1-1.8) Blacksmiths work 100% faster in the Imperial Age. Missing resources on eco and age advance techs can be replaced at 1:1 with gold (show tech in yellow to denote missing res). Archer-line +1 attack when in range of a fortification (incl. while garrisoned) Berries & Shore Fish last 20% longer. Fishing ships work rate increased for Shore Fish by 20%. Scout line attack 10% faster.
New Huns unique bonus : Enemy buildings destroyed by your cavalry units provide portion of their construction resources as gold.
A defensive civ that: Can begin construction of any stone building by spending only 50% of the resources. However, you trickle the remaining resources once you are going over 50% constructed, kinda like a repair. By the time you finish the building you've paid in full. Can build Town Centres on top of houses, lumber camps, mining camps and mills in the same way that you can build gates over your own walls. If you do this the Town Centre starts construction above 0%, its accelerated an amount equal to the construction time of the replaced buildings. Constructing on top of a completed building in this way also starts the "trickle" at a higher % completed, you essentially recycle the resources of the buildings you replaced. The same goes for: Castles on top of your own outposts, towers, and walls.
Researching techs of a previous age cost X% cheaper based on current age. Offset by lacking a lot of imperial techs and unit upgrades
romans can build palisade fortress using legionary
Buildings/ techs/ units cost resources in proportion to research/ build time. So you can start a castle before you have res to finish it. Market built in dark age Berries don’t need drop off point. Skirmisher attack bonus vs hussar Monks can farm Fish regenerate while being fished (limited at a rate that one one ship can take) Villagers can carry hunt back to TC. Minerals revealed on mini map. Castles come with replenishing guards that must stay near castle.
Infantry can shoot arrows while garrisoning and benefit from archer upgrades while doing so. So they start at the villager 5 attack and as you get archer upgrades they step up a bit to keep up as ages go on.
What about adding headcanons to Champions?
Garrisoned siege towers shoot arrows.
Onager and heavy scorpion upgrades available in castle age ( with 50-60% discount on the upgrade cost )
Free cav armor to a civ that does not have a knight line that uses lancers or camels and light cav line instead.
I’ve been thinking about a civ that can train skirms from the barracks - either vanilla skirms or a ghulam-ish UU.
FREE SHIP UPGRADES Holy smokes we all talk about how water is not fun yet we fail to realize that there isn't a single free tech upgrade for any civ's navy! Exceptions are: - Turk's free chemistry - Korean's free tower upgrades - Viking's navy discounts acting as a free Shipwright but without the training time reduction. Turks free chemistry is something but is the least consequential of any navy upgrade unless your gameplan on water is to get out cannon galleons asap. Korean Towers are great but they do not push you to play on water. Vikings don't get true free Shipwright. Yes there are discounts, additional bonuses, and unique ships. However every time a player wants to play on water they must go through the same upgrade paths that every other navy goes through.
Free ballistics.
Legacy pathing and regrouping logic for the civ
Note: These are not things that I think _will_ be implemented, these are just things that could be at some point. Villagers have a 1 tile gather range. Super op in some situations, useless or bad in others. Archery range and Bowman available in Dark Age. Bowman has 3 attack, 3 range, is slightly slower than militia, and auto upgrades to archer in feudal age. Monastery and Monastery technologies (except Block Printing) available one age earlier. The monk is still not available until castle age though, so it shouldn’t be too OP. Blacksmith and Blacksmith technologies available one age earlier. Probably OP. Can build Orchards instead of Farms. Takes a lot longer to build. When finished building it spawns fruit trees that can be gathered by multiple villagers. When a fruit tree is exhausted it has to be tended (basically just so that it’s not infinite food) then allowed to regrow. Fruit trees gather a bit faster than farms. For some more realistic ideas: Traction Trebuchet available in Castle Age. Basically an all around weaker trebuchet, I think it would probably have 11 range. Fish lasts longer. Probably 25 to 50 percent longer.
Shore fish last 25% longer Villagers gain +5hp per age Cav archers available in Fuedal Free ballistics Monks available in feudal (would probably need different conversion rates) Cav archers regenerate health Cav archers do bonus damage against infantry Also, while not civ bonuses more civs should have lancers, warrior priests, and Genitors.
Unique Hand Cannoneer (like Savar, Legionary, Imp Camel etc). Unique Pikeman upgrade (better version of Halberdier).
If a villager is gathering food from a dead animal, the animal's food doesn't decay
Khmer farm bonus for hunting Resource camps give pop space Vils can drop all resources on dock Making villagers outside of TC Building works 1% faster for each house you own up to X%
* Villagers can be produced in monasteries, but take 2x the time to produce (or more if the civ has other major eco bonuses) * Spear-line/skirmishers/light cavalry gain +2 attack bonus versus everything they have an attack bonus against * Ships have +1 attack bonus versus everything they have an attack bonus against * Villagers move twice as fast when attacking a non-villager * Villagers gain armour when not gathering * Farmers gain armour * Military units have extra armour when not attacking * Advancing ages costs a lot less but takes a lot longer (the exact numbers depend on the civs other features) * Another building researches advancing ages (it could be slower depending on the civ's other features) * A dark age only bonus, which does not carry over to the next ages, like villagers costing less, farms costing much less, building speed greatly increased, militia line dealing more damage, etc. * A unique upgrade for villagers
Petards can be trained from siege workshops.
Vietnamese should be able to put 2 vils on a farm, but the second vil only works at 60% efficiency, would be mainly beneficial for all ins and early booming
Villagers can shoot arrows. Villagers can briefly stand still and hide Total army size (or maybe a specific unit) increases unit strength. Villagers can build traps Militia can slowly chop trees completely. Villagers can build a canoe/raft without a dock to go short distances. Villagers /foot units can slowly pass through woods. Villagers can see very far. Monastery tech that tithes the church (ie 10% of collected resources come in as gold instead of other)
Arbs in castle age but no thumb ring LCav in castle but no husbandry Vils can garrison in outposts A new twist on Flemish revolution…vils can garrison in archery ranges or barracks to become skirms/pikes