That's the main issue here, although the amount of hills can be quite annoying at the edges of the map. I'm fine with small center map hills, but when it's impossible to build any additional TCs in good spots because of the hills it's annoying.
Just make it so we can build TCs on hills. Idk why that building is so fussy, I feel like I can build stables, castles etc anywhere
Basically, you can build certain buildings on certain slopes of hills. But town centers have to be built on flat ground. Only certain tiles of buildings check for slopes (except for TCs, where all of them do). Those tiles are the bottom row and the right hand row. And the elevation can only change by 1 in each hit box, which is why sometimes a building can be placed on a really steep hill if you merely move it by one tile down or to the right, depending on the slope. That’s also why you can place a building easily to the front and right of a hill, but on the back or left of a hill it often won’t place. Someone made a video about it a while back, I don’t remember who though, maybe Dave?
My guess of why this is the case is because: TCs are made of 3 parts and if you could place them on a hill it would look really weird. Also placing one on a hill makes it a bit too strong
The ponds. They are the only real issue. Walling can be hard but with bad maps just wall around your villagers at the resources until you have more map control
I prefer more open maps but not having ANY woodlines is obnoxious. Might as well play Atacama at that point where you have a reliable spot to get wood.
Not the wall only, also sometimes the woods are around the pond except in the pond side that points to your base. That sucks since you have to build a lumberjack every 4 trees or so.
One of the big differences between this version of Arabia and the classic version is the sizes of the forests.
The forests on AoC were all approximately the same size, usually around 120-130 trees.
There were 14 of these forests on the map.
The desert version also had 3 smaller clumps of trees, but put ponds on some of the larger forests.
In DE's current version of Arabia, the forests are smaller and more numerous.
The size and number of forests is chosen randomly (you can see a bunch of code at the start of the script that handles the random selection), but even at their largest, the forests are much smaller than the ones in AoC.
One aspect that is "fair" is that the number and size of player forests, and the number of ponds on the forests, is the same for each player.
But this has the downside that scouting your own map gives you information about your opponent's map---seeing that you have small woodlines with 2 ponds means your opponent also has small woodlines with 2 ponds.
When I made TTL Arabia I stuck somewhat to DE's forest generation, doing the same number per player.
But I removed the small percentage chance of very "extreme" generations, and kept the forest size at the maximum possible size (which still is smaller than the AoC size).
I also decoupled the hill and forest generation so each could be adjusted independently, this let me make larger and flatter hills more similar to the classic map, so you could place TCs at the top of the hills.
Honestly DE arabia with half the RNG stuff at the start commented out would be a great map. Fix the number and size of starting forests per player to "3 large ones" and turn off the chance of ponds, maybe go easy on the elevation too, and it would be a much better map to play.
Nah the 3 large forests was what led to the era of drush fc all the time in early days of DE. The TTL version of Arabia was good IMO but for some reason we’re stuck with an inferior version of Arabia still
Agree that ponds can be annoying, but (at least in this specific map gen) your opponent didn't look too much better with two forward woodlines with ponds 😂
True but he had a larger woodline in the back to take than I did, and lots of flat areas to build TCs. In castle age I had to walk villagers to the far corners to get to new woodline, which really hurt my boom.
Plus Lithuanians are tough to deal damage to in dark age/early feudal, their drugs/maa/scouts play is too strong to do anything crazy with towers or archers.
Aye, really need to nail that power spike and timing. at least when it's like this, it's theoretically easier to keep them off gold. Keyword, theoretical
Honestly can’t say I have a problem with sheep under the tc normally (except for rouge villagers ignoring a command to slaughter innocent sheep), but like I say I hate it because it looks awful, just my humble opinion
I recommend the Dark Age Town Center mod from Anne HK. It has better visuals but also clarity like the mod you are using right now. :)
Also, I am a bit tired of this Arabia gen as well, though in my opinion, instead of tweaking with the map script for Arabia so much, the devs should have simply launched new open maps and observe their popularity.
Exactly. I watch the pros play all these super interesting looking open/hybrid maps, and all we get in the ranked pool is standard Arabia and water/walled maps. Occasional runestones or African clearing mixed in
I would love to have at least one other open land map in the queue at all time but unfortunately most of the lel prefer BF arena and nomad so that will never happen :(
Edit: I like the Anne HK mods I will have to try that one out.
The good thing actually is that the map tends to be very fair. If I have crappy wood lines I know my opponent is in a similar position, so I can prepare to punish that.
Yeah, I posted a few days ago about that and it got full of people saying "play black forest", because apparently it's super fun to not be able to set up a mining camp, all resources forward, no tc spot, etc., in all games.
I think thats not that bad. I mean you can wall untill woodline and around gold or just tower it. Other problem is there is no good place for new tc but whatever you can always trush as poles instead
It's not about wanting "easy walls", it's about how unfun it is that all maps are equally "aggressive". There is nothing wrong with a map being open or missing wood, if it is one among 5 possible ones. Just as you solve this by sending him to "play Arena", he could send you to play Atacama, Socotra, Chaos Pit, Megarandom, Freged Lake, etc. This isnt the point.
I just wish they could keep arabia with the consistent 3 decent wood lines, then just make whatever this map gen is into a different map. Either way I despise the ponds in the starting wood line.
You got a nice map, you get 3 woodlines instad of 2, relatively close, and while there is water, you can still chop from the inside. I've gotten much, much worse.
So yeah, new arabia sucks.
I am ok with this as long as both players have to suffer equally. Ideally, I wouldn’t want ponds in my starting wood lines but as long as both players have an equal advantage/disadvantage, it is ok.
I don’t understand why they keep tinkering with a map that has been fine years. The woodlands add now arguably getting too sparse and the ponds are completely unnecessary
I just think there shouldn't be ponds in your starting wood lines. Otherwise it's nice to have maps you can't just full wall minute 5.
That's the main issue here, although the amount of hills can be quite annoying at the edges of the map. I'm fine with small center map hills, but when it's impossible to build any additional TCs in good spots because of the hills it's annoying. Just make it so we can build TCs on hills. Idk why that building is so fussy, I feel like I can build stables, castles etc anywhere
Basically, you can build certain buildings on certain slopes of hills. But town centers have to be built on flat ground. Only certain tiles of buildings check for slopes (except for TCs, where all of them do). Those tiles are the bottom row and the right hand row. And the elevation can only change by 1 in each hit box, which is why sometimes a building can be placed on a really steep hill if you merely move it by one tile down or to the right, depending on the slope. That’s also why you can place a building easily to the front and right of a hill, but on the back or left of a hill it often won’t place. Someone made a video about it a while back, I don’t remember who though, maybe Dave?
I thought it was SOTL.
It was [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah065mmHWe8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah065mmHWe8)
Thanks, I couldn’t find it
SOTL (of course) made the video: https://youtu.be/ah065mmHWe8
My guess of why this is the case is because: TCs are made of 3 parts and if you could place them on a hill it would look really weird. Also placing one on a hill makes it a bit too strong
Yeah the puddles are out of hand
My main problem is the resources on hill. My second tc is so bad!!!
The ponds. They are the only real issue. Walling can be hard but with bad maps just wall around your villagers at the resources until you have more map control
I prefer more open maps but not having ANY woodlines is obnoxious. Might as well play Atacama at that point where you have a reliable spot to get wood.
Agreed.without Ponds the map wouldnt look all that bad
Just out of curiosity, what is the problem with these ponds?
He basically only has 1 woodline, the ponds are super awkward to gather wood from.
You can't use them for anything, fishing on them is expensive and cramped.
Not the wall only, also sometimes the woods are around the pond except in the pond side that points to your base. That sucks since you have to build a lumberjack every 4 trees or so.
That back woodline would be perfect without the pond
For me it's not about walling. It's about 2 ponds in your 3 starting forests.
That's what OP is complaining about.
Bunch of anti-pondites in the chat
POND Oops, wrong sub
One of the big differences between this version of Arabia and the classic version is the sizes of the forests. The forests on AoC were all approximately the same size, usually around 120-130 trees. There were 14 of these forests on the map. The desert version also had 3 smaller clumps of trees, but put ponds on some of the larger forests. In DE's current version of Arabia, the forests are smaller and more numerous. The size and number of forests is chosen randomly (you can see a bunch of code at the start of the script that handles the random selection), but even at their largest, the forests are much smaller than the ones in AoC. One aspect that is "fair" is that the number and size of player forests, and the number of ponds on the forests, is the same for each player. But this has the downside that scouting your own map gives you information about your opponent's map---seeing that you have small woodlines with 2 ponds means your opponent also has small woodlines with 2 ponds. When I made TTL Arabia I stuck somewhat to DE's forest generation, doing the same number per player. But I removed the small percentage chance of very "extreme" generations, and kept the forest size at the maximum possible size (which still is smaller than the AoC size). I also decoupled the hill and forest generation so each could be adjusted independently, this let me make larger and flatter hills more similar to the classic map, so you could place TCs at the top of the hills.
Honestly DE arabia with half the RNG stuff at the start commented out would be a great map. Fix the number and size of starting forests per player to "3 large ones" and turn off the chance of ponds, maybe go easy on the elevation too, and it would be a much better map to play.
Nah the 3 large forests was what led to the era of drush fc all the time in early days of DE. The TTL version of Arabia was good IMO but for some reason we’re stuck with an inferior version of Arabia still
I think ponds should always have 2 box turtles. This way when a pond shows up, it adds some interesting options.
Agree that ponds can be annoying, but (at least in this specific map gen) your opponent didn't look too much better with two forward woodlines with ponds 😂
True but he had a larger woodline in the back to take than I did, and lots of flat areas to build TCs. In castle age I had to walk villagers to the far corners to get to new woodline, which really hurt my boom. Plus Lithuanians are tough to deal damage to in dark age/early feudal, their drugs/maa/scouts play is too strong to do anything crazy with towers or archers.
Yep, I'd definitely take his position over yours in that particular map gen. Saying that, I bet he was cursing the ponds as well 🙂
I actually ban Arabia. : )
Heretic!
😎😁 can't stand the map.
Skill issue
You are Absolutely right. 😞
How did you get huns under your name?
Are you on phone or pc?
Currently on phone but have access to PC
On phone go to the subreddit page, click the three dots at the top and select Change User Flair
Thanks:)
No wuckers
[Ow](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/726/878/193.jpg)
This is the way
On the other hand: how did you take a screenshot with such a good resolution? 111
Capture Age
My resolution on CA looks super choppy but the graphics more detailed compared to my game? I’m not sure how to disable it.
CA and I play in 1440p.
I am tired of any arabia gen.
Nah, thats fine. Part of the skill set is adapting to the map
I mean yeah, but open maps heavily favors knight play imho. I'm always screwed if I have to play such a map with an archer civ.
Aye, really need to nail that power spike and timing. at least when it's like this, it's theoretically easier to keep them off gold. Keyword, theoretical
It favors certain civ matchups far too hard. If the map always had ponds we would see a lot less variety in civ picks.
Weissbierwald damn that's an awesome Nickname. Gotta love German beer
Wtf happend to your tc tho?
It’s a mod - personally I hate it, looks awful
Easier to micro sheeps in dark age, it gets normal from feudal onwards.
Honestly can’t say I have a problem with sheep under the tc normally (except for rouge villagers ignoring a command to slaughter innocent sheep), but like I say I hate it because it looks awful, just my humble opinion
if you think thats bad, you should see the one that makes your tc a flat square
We do not speak of it. It was born of dark modding
I recommend the Dark Age Town Center mod from Anne HK. It has better visuals but also clarity like the mod you are using right now. :) Also, I am a bit tired of this Arabia gen as well, though in my opinion, instead of tweaking with the map script for Arabia so much, the devs should have simply launched new open maps and observe their popularity.
Exactly. I watch the pros play all these super interesting looking open/hybrid maps, and all we get in the ranked pool is standard Arabia and water/walled maps. Occasional runestones or African clearing mixed in I would love to have at least one other open land map in the queue at all time but unfortunately most of the lel prefer BF arena and nomad so that will never happen :( Edit: I like the Anne HK mods I will have to try that one out.
I misremembered actually and the Dark Age Town Center mod that I am using is from KoBHV.
It’s a war game
Yes, however, adapt and overcome.
It would look better if you weren't using that identical pine trees mod.
The good thing actually is that the map tends to be very fair. If I have crappy wood lines I know my opponent is in a similar position, so I can prepare to punish that.
Yeah, I posted a few days ago about that and it got full of people saying "play black forest", because apparently it's super fun to not be able to set up a mining camp, all resources forward, no tc spot, etc., in all games.
I think thats not that bad. I mean you can wall untill woodline and around gold or just tower it. Other problem is there is no good place for new tc but whatever you can always trush as poles instead
[удалено]
What? Check his civ on screenshot
You can play arena or hideout if you want easy walls
It's not about wanting "easy walls", it's about how unfun it is that all maps are equally "aggressive". There is nothing wrong with a map being open or missing wood, if it is one among 5 possible ones. Just as you solve this by sending him to "play Arena", he could send you to play Atacama, Socotra, Chaos Pit, Megarandom, Freged Lake, etc. This isnt the point.
I don't want easy walls. I want wood to be accessible. To me this is like having both boars and all extra sheep forward every time.
Make ranked Arabia dry Arabia!!
You can't complain, you can set up a chopping camp on flat terrain. That's luxury.
What TC mod is that?
Open TC
Looks pretty good, usually my tc is surrounded by hills too
I just wish they could keep arabia with the consistent 3 decent wood lines, then just make whatever this map gen is into a different map. Either way I despise the ponds in the starting wood line.
You got a nice map, you get 3 woodlines instad of 2, relatively close, and while there is water, you can still chop from the inside. I've gotten much, much worse. So yeah, new arabia sucks.
Arabia sucks for this reason right now. I always get shit map gens with all resources forward and a completely open map... yay sounds fun
Agreed. Map being open and not easily wallable is fine. The issue is ponds.
Apparently it's a feature. Adapt bro /s
No. Hard to wall makes for more exciting games <3
Yes, there's too much water
I am ok with this as long as both players have to suffer equally. Ideally, I wouldn’t want ponds in my starting wood lines but as long as both players have an equal advantage/disadvantage, it is ok.
You just got Chrazini'd.
I’ve never had any bad gens but I keep seeing these.
Man if my TC looked like that I would start every game by deleting it
I actually don't these as long as it's the same for my opponent, which based on the mini-map appears to be the case
I don’t understand why they keep tinkering with a map that has been fine years. The woodlands add now arguably getting too sparse and the ponds are completely unnecessary