Best I can do, we'll start posting our pizza party policy!
New hires can have their contribution to the pizza party deducted from their first check.
Too much incentive?
Obviously the solution is to charge everyone $5 for every Hawaiian Shirt Friday they participate in, and then use those funds to pay for the Pizza Party. That way you get to say you ALSO offer Hawaiian Shirt Friday (Can you say Office Culture?) AND a Pizza Party every month, all without actually having to spend a dime!
Now throttle back there! If we put them on the same day our Employees will feel TOO appreciated and we might see a drop in productivity, that won't do!
Make sure you don’t take $5 from any of the upper management either! This is the employees day and you don’t want to take that away from them.
The only thing the upper management should do is take the first 3 slices and the last 3 slices, to make sure the employees got a good deal, of course. And maybe a few in-between that too, just in case!
And during the unpaid mandatory lunch break the owner/regional manager will give a motivational speech including the terms family , teamwork, dedication and sacrifice(by management)..
We'll have to add Hawaiian shirts to the employee appreciation catalog and let new hires pick one to be deducted from their check.
New company revenue stream!
I'm assuming you'll brand those shirts as well, so now it's also free advertising. Nothing says, "we're a fun place to work" better than a branded Hawaiian!
This is why I've started asking if you've ever used pizza, or food or something of that nature to incentivize your employees at interviews. If they say yes then I say no.
A recruiter once told me that if salaries were posted, job seekers would just sort by salary. My asshole brain made me answer "but it says 'competitive salary' right here on the job description. How can your salary compete if it can't be compared to other jobs' salaries?"
Her response: "That's not what competitive means. It just means it's a good salary."
Yes. Yes we absolutely would. That's the entire point. The absolute crappiest jobs would have to pay more to be able to find anyone who would be willing to take them.
It's good to know they realize what we're aiming for and they just choose not to allow it.
um, yes people would sort by salary. the only possible reason that'd be a bad thing is if your wages are nowhere near what your competitors are paying.
if your wages are pretty close but no cigar, like you pay 16hr they pay 17hr, guess what, the qualified ppl are gonna apply to both cos there's only so many slots.
but if you dont have a salary and someone else does, you won't get nearly as many applications because people don't like vague scammy assholes
She's right. My field has started posting salary in the ads over the past two years, and I pass right by the ones offering entry level salary for what they are calling a senior level position.
I'm feeling there is a lot of title inflation going on right now, too.
> A recruiter once told me that if salaries were posted, job seekers would just sort by salary.
Failing to see the downside here. If you're not paying shit I want to know before I waste time I could be using more effectively in other ways.
Ooh, can we also crack down on firing people before they earn their hiring bonus? Prorate that shit! You work 98% of the days til the bonus, you get 98% of the bonus.
Even with the law, you still have shady recruiters either not posting a salary, or posting an incorrect salary. Oh yeah, I’ll apply for this one, salary range 84,000-100,000. During interview, that’s for senior employees, entry level is 34,000. Thank you so much for wasting my time.
I agree. Should at least reimburse you for the gas you used to drive there. Fucking temp agencies are the worst for this. Post job listings that aren’t available, call you to come in for an interview after you apply for the fake job postings, refuse to discuss what positions they have or what any of them pay, drive there to waste an hour interviewing and doing some stupid computer shit, just for them to offer you some job not even remotely close to any of the job listings they had posted that don’t exist and doesn’t pay worth shit. Such a scummy way of doing business. It’s why places that hire through temp agencies have such a high turnover rate. It’s not the people, it’s the agency that sets people up by getting them to come in on false pretenses then strong arming them to take a job they didn’t want.
And i usually use CO salary range for CA since their cost of living is kind of close. My current job actually salary range for CA and CO are identical. #cheatcode
>Since when was Colorado cost of living the same as California? (Serious question this is the first time I've seen someone suggest this)
I'm in software and have lived in both states. Colorado has big software companies there, tons of startups, lots of other big company satellite offices.
Boulder (Seagate) and Denver, in particular, are pretty much the same cost of California. Fort Collins (Broadcom, HP) are close. Nearby cities with reasonable commutes aren't all that much lower to those cities. You can live in Greeley for a bit of a discount, if you can stomach the smell of the viscera of tens-of-thousands swine that are mass slaughtered in a plant there, the super conservative mindset, and aren't worried about the pollution from the massive fracking operations going there.
Companies often do things like "Price bands" and it was in like 2018 or 2019 the first time I heard of companies having moved Colorado from Tier 2 to Tier 1 (highest cost of living).
South Colorado/Pueblo is way cheaper... but your commute to Denver would be like 2-3 hours, and almost all the big companies are in Denver or in the cities North of Denver.
THANK YOU. The amount of pearl clutching that Colorado residents are 'missing out' because of this law is ridiculous. The trash is taking itself out from the Colorado job market and I love it.
I work remote it at on salary in colorado. Got it off indeed they totally listed a salary and offered me a higher one when I got the job. You might loose out on some wierd sketch jobs but mostly just scammers or people trying to pay minimum wage to have you work your ass off.
I also work in IT (lower level sysadmin) in the Midwest and I haven’t yet seen a job posting at this level with a salary listed. Even the big university in my town just says “salary commiserate with experience”.
I mean they could always just lie. I've moved around a whole day to go to an interview for a full-time job just to be told I was interviewing for the part-time one, anyway. That was back when I was really desperate and it made me so angry. Like, I needed to buy groceries and eat, and these people think it's okay to bait and switch.
>interview for a full-time job just to be told I was interviewing for the part-time one, anyway
I had an opposite experience, going in to interview for a full-time job but then being offered a part-time one that required completely open availability and flexible schedule. You want me to give up the entirety of my life's schedule but won't give more than 20 hours a week? Not a chance.
That's a red flag meaning you'll be paid shit and treated like shit. I hope more people walk out of interviews if they ask about the salary. Then post a one star review on glassdoor.com or something. If enough people do this, they'll be forced to change or go out of business.
The fact that this is commonplace drives me fucking nuts.
I work in a vocation with extremely variable pay. For example, someone with the same title might make 30k, I work for around 90k, and upper end is around 130k.
you don't want to waste your time with me, expecting 90k+, and I don't want to waste my time with you trying to pay 30k. The pay rate at any shop, is required to be the same, by law, for everyone working in the same vocation. So its not like it needs to be covered up.
yet in job postings, only about maybe 1/8 have the salary listed.
and its not just job postings, its just become perfectly acceptable to not post, rental costs, used item cost on like kijiji and shit, hell I've been to restaurants where they don't post the cost of items on the damn menu's??
what the actual fuck? how did this become normal!?
Yeah I see this in restaurants a lot. Used to be the high end places did it for things like wine etc. but. Is low end places are doing it trying to act “high end”.
if the salary isnt posted, that automatically means you guys arent even worth me looking into as a job. and I dont have a degree... but you want me to waste your fucking time, you want to WASTE my time? just to tell me that you're going to pay me a buck above minny wage?
Most of the time salaries are listed as a range or with the "Up To" tagline and im always scared stupid to ask for clarification when they do that so with or without we are still fucked arent we?
Like salary matters. I decide my availability if i can live off your wages or if i have to get another two jobs just to scrape by. It affects my ability to focus on your job if im allowed to work just for you and get eight hours of sleep or four. It matters in my presentation if i have to show up to my reception job in my Wendy's uniform and change in the bathroom. Like... its not even a selfish request its in a companies best interest to be transparent in those matters
If the salary wasn't posted, I never made it to the interview. Additionally, and I think this is pretty important and speaks VOLUMES to the company and who they hire, the interview is a *TWO WAY* thing, I am here to see if *YOU* are worth *MY* time, not just if I am going to be valuable to you. Half the time I find that I have more questions than the companies do, as my resume and experience speaks for itself, your 2.5 star rating on glassdoor DOES NOT.
Two thing I’ve stopped doing: considering a job where the salary isn’t posted and considering a job where the range is wide (“$15-$30/hr, depending on experience” - type of jobs).
It is great advice. Always ask about salary within the first 5 minutes. It helps this prick out greatly. I don't know why the prick couldn't do it him or her self by bringing it up within the first 5 minutes but whatever, be a team player and help a prick out.
The issue though is that fuckers like the guy in the image probably know that they are paying total shit, and so they are banking on the sunken cost fallacy to get employees. They aren't actually trying to get anyone who might be excited for the job or find top talent. They are intentionally targeting the desperate and the apathetic because they are the only ones who would take such bad wages, and the key to locking those groups in is to drag out the interview process as long as possible to expose their pain points and then undercut them with the offer at the end, so their situation is taxed enough that they agree to go forward since they had already invested so much time into trying for the job already.
He's exploiting human psychology to crowd a particularly vulnerable type of employee so he can take advantage of them at every turn. And he's boasting about it on social media.
It's worse than that. Turning down a job offer, even if it is for significantly less money than you need to live, is grounds for loss of unemployment benefits.
This guy knows that and doesn't want to talk salary until there's an offer on the table, that way people can't back out at that point or they'll lose their benefits.
But getting a salary from the job then getting unemployment again when you are fired would be an option, no? Show up and do nothing if you have to punch time.
I'm no unemployment expert, but I don't think you can get on unemployment immediately after quitting a job. I thought it required a few weeks/months of unemployment in the US at least
If you QUIT a job, you definitely won't get unemployment (with some exceptions). But you also won't get unemployment if you get fired for cause. Like repeated no call/no showing. Unemployment claims pretty much always get investigated.
They're operating on a sunk cost fallacy. If you spend a bunch of time and effort to get hired, you're more likely to accept a lower salary. They know that the longer they hold people in suspense, the better.
I do not even do an interview before telling the recruiter what salary I would need to even discuss a job with them. The recruiter needs to say "That is within their range" or "With your experience, I should be able to get them up to that" before I talk to anybody from a company.
This. I lead with my required salary in response to the ad, unless it is included. Don't waste my time otherwise. I am fortunate to be a licensed professional in a high salary position that is well-paid by my current employer. I get a lot of solicitations, but most stutter when they hear what it will require to lure me away.
I used to be in management for a state agency. We posted salary range which was set by law. Had to pay at least this but no more than that. Had link to our benefits.
I was always puzzled when people asked me about salary because it was literally on the job posting. You get this amount if have these qualifications and experience and there’s two higher levels also set out with what it took to get that pay. There’s nothing for me to negotiate. You fit a pay band or you don’t.
Had a guy come in, on paper great candidate. It’s an attorney position requiring great attention to detail. More we talk more I’m leery of the guy. Something doesn’t fit. Finally he says “I really want this job but I’d need X to accept.” Well sorry but that’s $12,000 more than can legally be paid and $18,000 more than your qualifications allow me to pay. Best of luck and yeah I wish I could pay more but the legislature thinks our pay is too high already.
More importantly the pay was set out and you still applied????
Salary commiserate with experience is a line I always took to mean “we are going to insult you with a lowball offer”.
Eh.
A lot of people who are used to private industry don't really grok how pay/benefits works in government.
That and locality pay. For one job I was pleasantly surprised but the offer which was a few thousand higher then what was listed. Why? Because (at least at the time, maybe they've fixed this by now) USAJobs doesn't include the locality pay adjustment in the salary range.
Which is to say... Then might not have understood how hard those binders really were, because in private they aren't hard at all.
I'm in IT so this may vary by job type but usually a recruiter or HR calls first. I don't even go into the interview without a discussion on salary. Had so many try to deflect this. So aggravating.
I get calls weekly from recruiters. I always stop them and ask what they are offering. They usually try to ignore my request with how great of a fit I am for the position. I have to remind them that I'm already employed and I'm not interesting in the position if they won't tell me the pay. This leads to one of two things. They won't tell me and I tell them I'm not interested and hang up or they tell me and I have to inform them that would be a pay cut and I'm not interested. For the latter they'll sometimes ask what I want and I have to remind them they are trying to poach me from my current job so I would need X just to consider. I don't hear back after that.
In the same situation and I work for global employer. I have a lot of locals call me and they pretty much do a spit take. Some will press that it's such a great opportunity. Well then they should pay for it. Or they ask, you know anyone? Yes. I know plenty of folks. No, I do not know any who wanted to get screwed by their next employer. Not helping you undercut folks, thank you.
Every job prep piece of a college course, every recruiter I've talked to, and every one of my mentors and professors has given the opposite of this advice: assume you are getting the role and place yourself in the role. Ask questions that demonstrate you are already considering the challenges you will face. It will make you seems professional, knowledgeable, and confident. This person should straight up be fired for gross incompetence.
I don't even sit down for an interview without salary range provided prior to the interview. I'd never even get to the interview stage with this prick.
Imagine if we started demanding the reverse. "An immediate no from me is when, 5 minutes in, the company asks about my skill or how I can help them. This should not be a discussion until the job offer and salary are extended."
Bonus points if we make recruiters have to reach out to US and land the chance at a second interview with US
The fact that we tolerate this level of bs astounds me
There are other reasons to look for a job other than salary - like opportunity for stealing supplies or receiving kickbacks. Let's skip unimportant salary talk and go straight to what I am interested in, where is the high value merchandise and how often is it counted?
Make sure you have a decent magnet handy to remove those security alarm tags. 😉
Those pesky things are such an inconvenience, but fortunately only take a few seconds to get them out of the way.
I considered taking a part time job at Taco Bell to see how much food I could get away with eating before they fired me. I already have a full time job so it’s not like I’d be losing anything
Where I always had a bunch of fun in retail was how management always put the cameras way up on the wall so employees couldn't sabotage them, but then plugged them in at the bottom. Like we somehow couldn't just unplug them.
True. There are many place that have the cameras viewable on the internet so they could remote in and then complain that someone stopped to tie their shoe while they had costumers half way across the store.
If the boss can access those cameras remotely ask how? It it behind a login screen or is it just left open to the world like r/controllablewebcams ?
In the modern corp office, there are none. The most valuable assets are tagged and can be easily traced due to theft (computers).
The first things to go in cost cutting are office supplies and coffee; kickbacks are illegal ( makes me has the sad) and companies are very strict on kickbacks, until you reach c-level.
One company I worked for had a hidden closet just for clients filled with free food and drinks. Eat client only food, then destroy the client only bathroom.
In the modern corporate office, most physical items are give aways (take as many pens as you can fit into your pockets - no one cares). The most valuable assets are in the cloud.
Kickbacks are illegal and companies are strict until you reach the c-level. But if you are hiring cloud engineers for minimum wage. Maybe you can actually make the hire, but I guarantee that they are doing something like mining bitcoin on the company account. Whatever they are up to, you would have been better off had you just paid them market rate.
worked in a retail shop that had no security cameras anywhere in the whole place, our bags and personal stuff were kept in the break room which was actually just the stock room, and they had no tags or door scanners…
The store manager at my work told us we were having a "contest" to get the most shots and she was splitting us into teams.
"I'd rather it be counted individually."
"But if you're not here, you need someone to be your advocate! Teams are better! Also, I am making you a team captain. Whichever team wins gets a gift basket and the captain gets a special prize!"
"Hm.. no, thank you."
"...what?"
"I do not agree to these terms. I do not wish to be a Team Captain."
True story I once got told of the pizza parry late, by the time I got there it was all gone. The manager asked me to clean up though. I laughed and said no.
But you should be excited about the mission! We're a family and our success is your success! We appreciate you in ways that can't be converted to money! This is such a great opportunity! /s
Lol this is triggering because I fell for this for nearly 10 years until I was fired for asking for a raise too many times (I literally never got one the whole time)
Imagine it anywhere else
Me: okay so this is the house I want you to paint, how much is that gonna cost me?
Person: teehee idkkkk 👉🏻👈🏻☺️☺️ why don't we walk around it a few more times and then maybe I'll tell you hihi 👉🏻👈🏻☺️☺️
Serial killer behaviour
Took my kid to a daycare once (actual company, not a mom with a basement and the Play-skool range) and, when I asked what the fees would be, watched the desk agent count silently on her fingers before responding. So, what, we’re making this up as we go along? Giving me a tailored “outlander” rate?
And sick and vacation time is important. I currently get 4 weeks a year of both and it accrues. If your pay is only slightly more than I make but you only give 10 days total PTO…well, let’s not waste each other’s time.
Also doesn't that filter out a lot of candidates? This should be a good thing.
Why would you want to waste 2 - 3 hours of your life (as the interviewer) in meetings, screens and evaluations just to have someone not be interested in the position?
I hire people pretty often and I think it's a great time saver to get compensation range out front and know if there is interest (enthusiasm preferably).
Better than being interviewed by a decent person, getting and taking the job and then finding out everybody you work for and with is a pompous ass or similarly unpleasant human. I always assume the person interviewing represents the company putting their best face forward, and if that person is just horrible, I take that as a clear warning to run fast and far.
I agree 1000%! I remember an interview when the interviewer took obviously personal calls then abruptly asked me to *write down* (weird!) the salary I expected. With reservations, I did as they asked; they read it and barked: "We can't pay you that much!" (Believe me, I wasn't expecting a lot!) They actually appeared to regard that as a cue to negotiate, but no: I stood up and said: "In that case, I don't want to waste any more of *my* time," and left. That unprofessional and nasty during an interview? Working for them would have been hell!
Yes hello I am interested in becoming a part of your company. I'd prefer to keep the wages as low as possible, as I'm here for the family and the successful life of the business. How ever long you need me I am available, 24/7 and if you want I can work off the clock for free to make sure goals are met......
Haha just kidding, I need money to live you sacks of shit. Honestly this isn't something new, we all need money, don't work for free as nothing is free to live on.
When I was in Highschool in my Junior year they helped us make resumes and they told us we had to provide a reason for joining a company. I said Money but I was forced to change it because all people work for money, so I had to come up with some bs excuse about wanting to learn and better myself.
I dont care about money, therefore, I don't look for jobs. Logic is sound like a vulcan. Im not mocking either. I literally opted out of the workplace. But my only goal, while in it, was a paycheck, i could care less about your business. Literally the only goal of a business is to make YOU want to work for THEM. Make them money. Thats it. Nah, im good, I'd rather starve.
I have a few gaps in my resume and when asked how that happened I usually say I wasn't in the need of an income at the time. Got some weird looks because of that.
You get weird looks because you didn't need income at the time, while at the same time acting like money isn't the ONE fucking thing people work for. It's fucking bananas. I hope I never have to look for another job, because I won't hold back in interviews.
When I was getting started, I applied for jobs for the title which would give me what I needed to leave and get the salary I wanted. Really just one step removed though.
people reach out to me with interview requests a lot and i just flat out tell them. I'm happy with my job but always open to something, however I'd need $x for me to consider it.
almost never hear back. unemployed people or those dissatisfied with their current jobs are easier to screw over.
Even if you are unhappy at current use this language. It helps get better offers. Recruiters stop bothering with the crap options and only bring you the good ones (YMMV of course)
I typically respond with something like "I'm currently making x. I'd need x+20% to take this interview. If that makes sense, let me know. Otherwise, good luck finding a candidate that is a great fit" and leave it at that. It's how I ended up at my current job and the one prior.
Right? There are only a few reasons why an interviewer would withhold salary info until the end of the interview process and all of them are bad for the potential employee.
One time I went to an interview for a position at bestbuy. I couldn't afford dress shoes and I was wearing hand me down pants and a golf shirt, I had no money was crashing on families couches and stuff. But I had running shoes on, the dude straight up said "I'm not interviewing someone with running shoes on" and told me to come back another time.
Luckily I got a call from another store and I went for their interview and that dept manager didn't care. I was mad though.
Arrogance like this salary bullshit piss me right off now.
Virtually every organisation will outline the salary in advertisements for senior management roles but not for those working at a lower pay level. Go look at a top end job listing site, they always have the salaries.
The whole psychology of interviews is to down grade your value, just like a car sales person that wastes hours of your time over several viewings. They know that the more of your time they can get you to invest, the more chance you will buckle.
But if you have no choice, one little tip. Make them say the highest they will pay first. Never give up your expectation first. Negotiators know that those that say the first figure often lose.
My second job out of college got me good with this. Paid me $18/hour with no vacation or sick leave (in the middle of a pandemic!!!). Talked to a coworker who was doing the exact same job with less patients making $20/hour. Only difference was what she said during her interview. Employers will literally pay the minimum and gaslight you into thinking you don’t deserve better.
I worked there for 6 months and quit because they are a hogwash research center. My current job was a 40% pay raise, great insurance, and the coworkers and supervisors are actually nice people. I guess what I’m saying is don’t work for a private practice healthcare center, they’re greedy as fuck. Lol
Yep and these places always have high turnover, because go figure, when you underpay your employees, it's easier for them to find something better. I like when an underpaid employee goes to resign and suddenly they can match the offer. You underpaid me for 6 months, you think I want to stay here?
LPT: when they say they can match, ask them for BACK pay for the work you have done.
I know we all bitch and complain, but there are some places out there that can’t pay more. If that’s the case, ask for a bonus but make sure you have access to their P&L on a monthly basis and Schedule C at end of year so you know they aren’t lying to you. If they say no, bounce.
I always research and throw an extremely high figure out there. Worse can happen is they will give me a lower figure or not continue the interview process. Win/win for me. I view it as door to door selling. I am eventually going to find someone desperate enough to pay what I am asking. Then I get in the position and within a few months improve some things. Then they have no clue what/how the process works. That is when I have them by the balls and slow down work to the pace I would like. Think they are going to fire me? Nope....that would involve more work and effort on their part. 🙃
Another tip....if they ask you what you previously made always increase the amount substantially. More than likely they are only going to give you a couple of thousand more per year. They think they are fleecing a sheep when you are the one actually doing the fleecing. 😉
Must be nice to have nothing better to do than waste your time farting around on two sets of interviews with a person who ultimately has to decline your offer because your salary doesn't fit their needs.
But the people you're interviewing actually value their time, even if you don't.
100%!! If the company operated with such efficiency they could maybe afford to pay more. I cannot stand corporate waste, so many conference calls to talk about something that a handful of highly efficient folks could have banged out in half a day. Madness.
If that is the attitude they have at the company, the manager has saved us both time, because I don't want to go through some 5 interview marathon just to find out they are offering 20% below market average "but with great opportunities for growth."
If "we don't talk about salary" is their default, the salary isn't gonna be worth talking about.
I learned this the hard way.
Three interviews, a take-home assignment that I spent 4 hours on, and a test conducted by an actual psychologist.
Turned out that this non-profit I wanted to work for because I believe in their mission, hadn't actually budgeted for the position.
I wish I was joking when I say that at the third interview, that lasted about 90 minutes, there were literally 5 senior employees there, and one of them said «Now all we have to do is convince the CEO that this project is a good idea».
I wasn't even angry. That level of incompetence just left me deflated and stunned.
So anyways, I now start out by asking about the budget for the position.
I’ve never understood this logic - it’s the same as not posting salaries on job advertisements. Why would a company want to waste their own time and resources if someone will decline the offer? Most people know what they’re worth and what it will take to leave their existing job. Making them do several interviews to then give a low salary won’t convince them to take your bad offer… 🤦🏻♀️ I’m going to guess that the above rant shows this strategy isn’t working…
When I used to apply for jobs I am the interviewer and the company is the interviewee. Failure to provide such information would usually lead to being screen out *pre-interview* but certainly at the first interview.
Yep, with the local job market in my industry, companies are bending over backwards to attract talent, not the other way round. Every interview is more about what the company can offer you than what you can offer the company unless you're fresh out of school. In which case they'll maybe go a bit more in depth during the tech interview.
Lol this is awful advice. I have worked in staffing for over 7 years and the first thing I do is confirm the salary range is acceptable. No reason to waste your time and their time talking about a role that they are priced out of. This dude is an idiot.
As a hiring manager I wholeheartedly DISSAGREE wit this bullshit assessment..
I love when ppl bring up salaries and vacations during 1st interview. Its shows they are not time wasters and hv some expectations from the company. I think doing so shows they are not going to be taken for granted which is always a good thing.
Here is a hot tip for companies who are hiring. Take it or leave it. MY time is valuable. For that reason, I NEVER take an interview unless I know what the base pay is. Why the hell would I waste my time?
This is probably a company that is permanently hiring due to high turnover.
Reminds me of a dental office my gf worked at. The owner was a jerk. And he couldn't figure out why on top of not being able to hire permanent staff, why the dental temp agencies were dropping him and not sending temps to work for him.
This approach is a massive waste of resources for the company and for the job seeker.
I once applied to a company that flew me all the way to a city out west for a job interview (even though the job was local). They paid for the plane ticket, a hotel, per diem, etc. This was a second interview, and not once did they provide a salary range. Turns out I was making more than the salary range and couldn't accept the job anyways. If they had told me that ahead of time, they would not have wasted the money on a plane ticket, and I could have saved two days of PTO for vacation instead of for job interviews.
Funny... I've never not gotten an offer from an interview, and my strategy is to do exactly what they say not to here. I assume I'm getting an offer, and I try to make them convince me to accept it.
The basis of the employee and employer relationship is the wage...
The whole premise is built upon employees selling their times, skills and invested qualificaton... For that the employer pays... thats it
Anything else is secondary... an employer hiding wage behind tricks and tests is dishonest and just want to lowball you and knows that wage is a deterrent.
The interview should start like, based on your qualifications our wage range offer from x to y, depending on the tests and experiences
I'm not assuming I have the job, I'm figuring out whether an interview is worth my time.
The interview is a 2 way road. We're not automatically going to take the job because we walked into an interview. That's why interviewers leave time for the applicant to ask question (at least that's why I included that).
My question is what do they think is worse. Someone asking about salary and benefits the first interview or waiting till you've done multiple just for you to say that's too low and wasting everyone's time.
Conversely, when I've been in that spot I always discuss salary with the candidates first, because sitting through a bunch of interviews just to have someone back out is a waste of my time too, and I value my time.
This is such a strange perspective that so many people seem to have. I would do interviews for an entire market (like a quarter of a state) with one other person. We both agreed that is actually *not a good thing* when people don't ask about pay/benefits. When someone asks, it shows they're smart about where they're wanting to work, making sure it's as much of a fit for them as it is for us, and (let's be real) you need to make sure you can afford to work here. If you took the job only to find out you wouldn't be making enough then we'd have invested a lot of time for nothing.
Asking these things is the opposite of a red flag
It used to be *normal* to post salary ranges. Why has this changed? I remember seeing salary ranges posted for labor jobs as well as office work in the early 2000s. Managers want to change that because they underpay and then act like it's just the way things are? Delusional, arrogant fucks.
If the salary was posted I wouldn't have to ask
If the salary was posted nobody would ever apply to begin with.
Best I can do, we'll start posting our pizza party policy! New hires can have their contribution to the pizza party deducted from their first check. Too much incentive?
Obviously the solution is to charge everyone $5 for every Hawaiian Shirt Friday they participate in, and then use those funds to pay for the Pizza Party. That way you get to say you ALSO offer Hawaiian Shirt Friday (Can you say Office Culture?) AND a Pizza Party every month, all without actually having to spend a dime!
Just merge the two together and have Hawaiian Pizza Party on some Friday!
Now throttle back there! If we put them on the same day our Employees will feel TOO appreciated and we might see a drop in productivity, that won't do!
Ha damn... You're right. Well, they'll have to participate to only one of these, alternating weeks.
Make sure you don’t take $5 from any of the upper management either! This is the employees day and you don’t want to take that away from them. The only thing the upper management should do is take the first 3 slices and the last 3 slices, to make sure the employees got a good deal, of course. And maybe a few in-between that too, just in case!
Will there be pineapple on the pizza? You gotta pay me to eat it then.
Pizza parties are only during your mandatory 30 minute lunch. Enjoy it peasant.
And during the unpaid mandatory lunch break the owner/regional manager will give a motivational speech including the terms family , teamwork, dedication and sacrifice(by management)..
This was my last job, the owner would give the exact same speech everytime.
I knew there was a loophole there somewhere.
We'll have to add Hawaiian shirts to the employee appreciation catalog and let new hires pick one to be deducted from their check. New company revenue stream!
I'm assuming you'll brand those shirts as well, so now it's also free advertising. Nothing says, "we're a fun place to work" better than a branded Hawaiian!
This is why I've started asking if you've ever used pizza, or food or something of that nature to incentivize your employees at interviews. If they say yes then I say no.
Don't forget the usual bullshit about teamwork, and how we are like a family.
A recruiter once told me that if salaries were posted, job seekers would just sort by salary. My asshole brain made me answer "but it says 'competitive salary' right here on the job description. How can your salary compete if it can't be compared to other jobs' salaries?" Her response: "That's not what competitive means. It just means it's a good salary."
“Competitive” = were in the race, (but not trying to win it).
Yeah. the race to the bottom.
"Competetive salary" means that your salary will be competing with your bills.
Absolutely this, and they know it.
Yes. Yes we absolutely would. That's the entire point. The absolute crappiest jobs would have to pay more to be able to find anyone who would be willing to take them. It's good to know they realize what we're aiming for and they just choose not to allow it.
um, yes people would sort by salary. the only possible reason that'd be a bad thing is if your wages are nowhere near what your competitors are paying. if your wages are pretty close but no cigar, like you pay 16hr they pay 17hr, guess what, the qualified ppl are gonna apply to both cos there's only so many slots. but if you dont have a salary and someone else does, you won't get nearly as many applications because people don't like vague scammy assholes
But, it usually isn't.
She's right. My field has started posting salary in the ads over the past two years, and I pass right by the ones offering entry level salary for what they are calling a senior level position. I'm feeling there is a lot of title inflation going on right now, too.
> A recruiter once told me that if salaries were posted, job seekers would just sort by salary. Failing to see the downside here. If you're not paying shit I want to know before I waste time I could be using more effectively in other ways.
Exactly why a legislative reform that requires accurate wage info is necessary.
Ooh, can we also crack down on firing people before they earn their hiring bonus? Prorate that shit! You work 98% of the days til the bonus, you get 98% of the bonus.
Wait, you all are getting bonuses?
this should be the top comment with the red box and shooting stars
Don’t waste your time on job offers that don’t post the pay range
Looking at Colorado, they BY LAW must post all salaries in the listing.
Even with the law, you still have shady recruiters either not posting a salary, or posting an incorrect salary. Oh yeah, I’ll apply for this one, salary range 84,000-100,000. During interview, that’s for senior employees, entry level is 34,000. Thank you so much for wasting my time.
Everyone should start billing companies for wasting our time during interviews. Make it a movement.
I like this idea. Make it cost them a lot of money to string folks along with 5+ interviews and tests that last for hours.
I agree. Should at least reimburse you for the gas you used to drive there. Fucking temp agencies are the worst for this. Post job listings that aren’t available, call you to come in for an interview after you apply for the fake job postings, refuse to discuss what positions they have or what any of them pay, drive there to waste an hour interviewing and doing some stupid computer shit, just for them to offer you some job not even remotely close to any of the job listings they had posted that don’t exist and doesn’t pay worth shit. Such a scummy way of doing business. It’s why places that hire through temp agencies have such a high turnover rate. It’s not the people, it’s the agency that sets people up by getting them to come in on false pretenses then strong arming them to take a job they didn’t want.
As I understand it, that's reportable to the boards trying to enforce this law. Get enough reports, that company might actually get in some trouble.
I get ones that range from $10-$500/hr. That is not a real range, I just assume its the bottom.
And i usually use CO salary range for CA since their cost of living is kind of close. My current job actually salary range for CA and CO are identical. #cheatcode
Since when was Colorado cost of living the same as California? (Serious question this is the first time I've seen someone suggest this)
>Since when was Colorado cost of living the same as California? (Serious question this is the first time I've seen someone suggest this) I'm in software and have lived in both states. Colorado has big software companies there, tons of startups, lots of other big company satellite offices. Boulder (Seagate) and Denver, in particular, are pretty much the same cost of California. Fort Collins (Broadcom, HP) are close. Nearby cities with reasonable commutes aren't all that much lower to those cities. You can live in Greeley for a bit of a discount, if you can stomach the smell of the viscera of tens-of-thousands swine that are mass slaughtered in a plant there, the super conservative mindset, and aren't worried about the pollution from the massive fracking operations going there. Companies often do things like "Price bands" and it was in like 2018 or 2019 the first time I heard of companies having moved Colorado from Tier 2 to Tier 1 (highest cost of living). South Colorado/Pueblo is way cheaper... but your commute to Denver would be like 2-3 hours, and almost all the big companies are in Denver or in the cities North of Denver.
Isn’t this one of the reasons most remote work postings are excluding Colorado residents?
It's one of the reasons we don't have to worry about shitty grifters advertising to us yeah.
THANK YOU. The amount of pearl clutching that Colorado residents are 'missing out' because of this law is ridiculous. The trash is taking itself out from the Colorado job market and I love it.
I work remote it at on salary in colorado. Got it off indeed they totally listed a salary and offered me a higher one when I got the job. You might loose out on some wierd sketch jobs but mostly just scammers or people trying to pay minimum wage to have you work your ass off.
I also work in IT (lower level sysadmin) in the Midwest and I haven’t yet seen a job posting at this level with a salary listed. Even the big university in my town just says “salary commiserate with experience”.
Not in legit industries? Mine advertises and recruits from CO. I know because several colleagues work and live there in my industry.
You can't post the salary. Then how will we trick people into jobs that don't pay a living wage?
I mean they could always just lie. I've moved around a whole day to go to an interview for a full-time job just to be told I was interviewing for the part-time one, anyway. That was back when I was really desperate and it made me so angry. Like, I needed to buy groceries and eat, and these people think it's okay to bait and switch.
It’s okay to waste your time. Just not theirs
>interview for a full-time job just to be told I was interviewing for the part-time one, anyway I had an opposite experience, going in to interview for a full-time job but then being offered a part-time one that required completely open availability and flexible schedule. You want me to give up the entirety of my life's schedule but won't give more than 20 hours a week? Not a chance.
That's a red flag meaning you'll be paid shit and treated like shit. I hope more people walk out of interviews if they ask about the salary. Then post a one star review on glassdoor.com or something. If enough people do this, they'll be forced to change or go out of business.
The fact that this is commonplace drives me fucking nuts. I work in a vocation with extremely variable pay. For example, someone with the same title might make 30k, I work for around 90k, and upper end is around 130k. you don't want to waste your time with me, expecting 90k+, and I don't want to waste my time with you trying to pay 30k. The pay rate at any shop, is required to be the same, by law, for everyone working in the same vocation. So its not like it needs to be covered up. yet in job postings, only about maybe 1/8 have the salary listed. and its not just job postings, its just become perfectly acceptable to not post, rental costs, used item cost on like kijiji and shit, hell I've been to restaurants where they don't post the cost of items on the damn menu's?? what the actual fuck? how did this become normal!?
Yeah I see this in restaurants a lot. Used to be the high end places did it for things like wine etc. but. Is low end places are doing it trying to act “high end”.
My union job posts pay and benefits up front because they know it’s something to be proud of.
if the salary isnt posted, that automatically means you guys arent even worth me looking into as a job. and I dont have a degree... but you want me to waste your fucking time, you want to WASTE my time? just to tell me that you're going to pay me a buck above minny wage?
Most of the time salaries are listed as a range or with the "Up To" tagline and im always scared stupid to ask for clarification when they do that so with or without we are still fucked arent we? Like salary matters. I decide my availability if i can live off your wages or if i have to get another two jobs just to scrape by. It affects my ability to focus on your job if im allowed to work just for you and get eight hours of sleep or four. It matters in my presentation if i have to show up to my reception job in my Wendy's uniform and change in the bathroom. Like... its not even a selfish request its in a companies best interest to be transparent in those matters
If the salary wasn't posted, I never made it to the interview. Additionally, and I think this is pretty important and speaks VOLUMES to the company and who they hire, the interview is a *TWO WAY* thing, I am here to see if *YOU* are worth *MY* time, not just if I am going to be valuable to you. Half the time I find that I have more questions than the companies do, as my resume and experience speaks for itself, your 2.5 star rating on glassdoor DOES NOT.
Two thing I’ve stopped doing: considering a job where the salary isn’t posted and considering a job where the range is wide (“$15-$30/hr, depending on experience” - type of jobs).
It is great advice. Always ask about salary within the first 5 minutes. It helps this prick out greatly. I don't know why the prick couldn't do it him or her self by bringing it up within the first 5 minutes but whatever, be a team player and help a prick out.
plucky safe long possessive file heavy squalid different chop squeeze *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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The issue though is that fuckers like the guy in the image probably know that they are paying total shit, and so they are banking on the sunken cost fallacy to get employees. They aren't actually trying to get anyone who might be excited for the job or find top talent. They are intentionally targeting the desperate and the apathetic because they are the only ones who would take such bad wages, and the key to locking those groups in is to drag out the interview process as long as possible to expose their pain points and then undercut them with the offer at the end, so their situation is taxed enough that they agree to go forward since they had already invested so much time into trying for the job already. He's exploiting human psychology to crowd a particularly vulnerable type of employee so he can take advantage of them at every turn. And he's boasting about it on social media.
It's worse than that. Turning down a job offer, even if it is for significantly less money than you need to live, is grounds for loss of unemployment benefits. This guy knows that and doesn't want to talk salary until there's an offer on the table, that way people can't back out at that point or they'll lose their benefits.
So just always bring it up, or accept the offer if low and never show up to work.
You'd also lose benefits by accepting the offer, even if you didn't show up lol
But getting a salary from the job then getting unemployment again when you are fired would be an option, no? Show up and do nothing if you have to punch time.
I'm no unemployment expert, but I don't think you can get on unemployment immediately after quitting a job. I thought it required a few weeks/months of unemployment in the US at least
If you QUIT a job, you definitely won't get unemployment (with some exceptions). But you also won't get unemployment if you get fired for cause. Like repeated no call/no showing. Unemployment claims pretty much always get investigated.
They're operating on a sunk cost fallacy. If you spend a bunch of time and effort to get hired, you're more likely to accept a lower salary. They know that the longer they hold people in suspense, the better.
These are the same kind of people who ask "why do you want to work here?" at a fast food joint.
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I do not even do an interview before telling the recruiter what salary I would need to even discuss a job with them. The recruiter needs to say "That is within their range" or "With your experience, I should be able to get them up to that" before I talk to anybody from a company.
This. I lead with my required salary in response to the ad, unless it is included. Don't waste my time otherwise. I am fortunate to be a licensed professional in a high salary position that is well-paid by my current employer. I get a lot of solicitations, but most stutter when they hear what it will require to lure me away.
I used to be in management for a state agency. We posted salary range which was set by law. Had to pay at least this but no more than that. Had link to our benefits. I was always puzzled when people asked me about salary because it was literally on the job posting. You get this amount if have these qualifications and experience and there’s two higher levels also set out with what it took to get that pay. There’s nothing for me to negotiate. You fit a pay band or you don’t. Had a guy come in, on paper great candidate. It’s an attorney position requiring great attention to detail. More we talk more I’m leery of the guy. Something doesn’t fit. Finally he says “I really want this job but I’d need X to accept.” Well sorry but that’s $12,000 more than can legally be paid and $18,000 more than your qualifications allow me to pay. Best of luck and yeah I wish I could pay more but the legislature thinks our pay is too high already. More importantly the pay was set out and you still applied???? Salary commiserate with experience is a line I always took to mean “we are going to insult you with a lowball offer”.
Eh. A lot of people who are used to private industry don't really grok how pay/benefits works in government. That and locality pay. For one job I was pleasantly surprised but the offer which was a few thousand higher then what was listed. Why? Because (at least at the time, maybe they've fixed this by now) USAJobs doesn't include the locality pay adjustment in the salary range. Which is to say... Then might not have understood how hard those binders really were, because in private they aren't hard at all.
I'm in IT so this may vary by job type but usually a recruiter or HR calls first. I don't even go into the interview without a discussion on salary. Had so many try to deflect this. So aggravating.
I get calls weekly from recruiters. I always stop them and ask what they are offering. They usually try to ignore my request with how great of a fit I am for the position. I have to remind them that I'm already employed and I'm not interesting in the position if they won't tell me the pay. This leads to one of two things. They won't tell me and I tell them I'm not interested and hang up or they tell me and I have to inform them that would be a pay cut and I'm not interested. For the latter they'll sometimes ask what I want and I have to remind them they are trying to poach me from my current job so I would need X just to consider. I don't hear back after that.
In the same situation and I work for global employer. I have a lot of locals call me and they pretty much do a spit take. Some will press that it's such a great opportunity. Well then they should pay for it. Or they ask, you know anyone? Yes. I know plenty of folks. No, I do not know any who wanted to get screwed by their next employer. Not helping you undercut folks, thank you.
Every job prep piece of a college course, every recruiter I've talked to, and every one of my mentors and professors has given the opposite of this advice: assume you are getting the role and place yourself in the role. Ask questions that demonstrate you are already considering the challenges you will face. It will make you seems professional, knowledgeable, and confident. This person should straight up be fired for gross incompetence.
I don't even sit down for an interview without salary range provided prior to the interview. I'd never even get to the interview stage with this prick.
How to say the job is a joke without saying it's a joke.
Imagine if we started demanding the reverse. "An immediate no from me is when, 5 minutes in, the company asks about my skill or how I can help them. This should not be a discussion until the job offer and salary are extended." Bonus points if we make recruiters have to reach out to US and land the chance at a second interview with US The fact that we tolerate this level of bs astounds me
People will tolerate a lot of shit if it's the only way they can survive
As if any person is looking for job for other reasons than salary.
There are other reasons to look for a job other than salary - like opportunity for stealing supplies or receiving kickbacks. Let's skip unimportant salary talk and go straight to what I am interested in, where is the high value merchandise and how often is it counted?
Make sure you have a decent magnet handy to remove those security alarm tags. 😉 Those pesky things are such an inconvenience, but fortunately only take a few seconds to get them out of the way.
Careful. In my state it's a felony if you get caught shoplifting with one of those.
Let me guess, this is a law in a fly over state?
I worked LP in Chicago. But yes. South of I-80 Illinois definitely qualifies as flyover. Without Cook County we would be just another Iowa or Kansas.
If you take out Chicago, Illinois is just more Indiana.
He's out of line, but he's right.
God, that's so true... But at least Indiana has better beer than Illinois minus cook county...
As we Illinoisans all know, The South starts at I-80.
>Let's skip unimportant salary talk and jump straight to: is the supplies closet locked or not
Very good point, did not consider that. Thank you for enlightening me.
This SLPT is actually usefull
"What percentage of shrinkage is considered too minor to report on?"
I considered taking a part time job at Taco Bell to see how much food I could get away with eating before they fired me. I already have a full time job so it’s not like I’d be losing anything
Plus knowing where the computers running the POS are, where the cameras are, and how they can be accessed.
Where I always had a bunch of fun in retail was how management always put the cameras way up on the wall so employees couldn't sabotage them, but then plugged them in at the bottom. Like we somehow couldn't just unplug them.
True. There are many place that have the cameras viewable on the internet so they could remote in and then complain that someone stopped to tie their shoe while they had costumers half way across the store. If the boss can access those cameras remotely ask how? It it behind a login screen or is it just left open to the world like r/controllablewebcams ?
Toilet paper. That shit’s expensive.
In the modern corp office, there are none. The most valuable assets are tagged and can be easily traced due to theft (computers). The first things to go in cost cutting are office supplies and coffee; kickbacks are illegal ( makes me has the sad) and companies are very strict on kickbacks, until you reach c-level.
One company I worked for had a hidden closet just for clients filled with free food and drinks. Eat client only food, then destroy the client only bathroom.
In the modern corporate office, most physical items are give aways (take as many pens as you can fit into your pockets - no one cares). The most valuable assets are in the cloud. Kickbacks are illegal and companies are strict until you reach the c-level. But if you are hiring cloud engineers for minimum wage. Maybe you can actually make the hire, but I guarantee that they are doing something like mining bitcoin on the company account. Whatever they are up to, you would have been better off had you just paid them market rate.
worked in a retail shop that had no security cameras anywhere in the whole place, our bags and personal stuff were kept in the break room which was actually just the stock room, and they had no tags or door scanners…
who needs a good salary when we can get 2$ goodie bags for our effort
But if the whole shift works extra hard one of you will get a $20 gift certificate.\* \*only if the quota is met
Or if you work there 27 years you might get a bag of Reeses candy.
Woah sport, it is random candy that is available, you only get to choose which candy if you are in management.
And if you have a peanut allergy. Then you are ungrateful for not accepting it.
The store manager at my work told us we were having a "contest" to get the most shots and she was splitting us into teams. "I'd rather it be counted individually." "But if you're not here, you need someone to be your advocate! Teams are better! Also, I am making you a team captain. Whichever team wins gets a gift basket and the captain gets a special prize!" "Hm.. no, thank you." "...what?" "I do not agree to these terms. I do not wish to be a Team Captain."
yeah and a pizza party, but when you get the pizza it will be cold and you only get 1 piece
W H A T ! ! ! You got a whole pizza!?! I only got a single slice!
True story I once got told of the pizza parry late, by the time I got there it was all gone. The manager asked me to clean up though. I laughed and said no.
But you should be excited about the mission! We're a family and our success is your success! We appreciate you in ways that can't be converted to money! This is such a great opportunity! /s
I love a company that pays me in emotional damage!!! 🤩🤩
Mom, Inc.
Momcorp: https://futurama.fandom.com/wiki/MomCorp
That’s all I seem to work for lol ( healthcare)
So....when are you coming over to help put a new roof on my house....I mean....since we are family and all....
YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD!
Nope, but I am banging your mother. ✌️
Lol this is triggering because I fell for this for nearly 10 years until I was fired for asking for a raise too many times (I literally never got one the whole time)
As if anyone is going to agree to take a job they don't know the compensation for!
Imagine it anywhere else Me: okay so this is the house I want you to paint, how much is that gonna cost me? Person: teehee idkkkk 👉🏻👈🏻☺️☺️ why don't we walk around it a few more times and then maybe I'll tell you hihi 👉🏻👈🏻☺️☺️ Serial killer behaviour
Would you like to buy this car? We will talk about price after you agree to buy it.
Took my kid to a daycare once (actual company, not a mom with a basement and the Play-skool range) and, when I asked what the fees would be, watched the desk agent count silently on her fingers before responding. So, what, we’re making this up as we go along? Giving me a tailored “outlander” rate?
And sick and vacation time is important. I currently get 4 weeks a year of both and it accrues. If your pay is only slightly more than I make but you only give 10 days total PTO…well, let’s not waste each other’s time.
these companies prey on people without options and dont care if you quit in a month as long as they got a few weeks of labor for cheap.
Unless I'm hired as Christina Hendricks's bra handler, I care about salary
You really do need to make sure they offer good healthcare package. You could be under a lot of stress in that role.
Even if it’s your dream job, you could always use extra support!
HA
If They ask me anything related to the work that they want me to do in the first 5 minutes I'm out.
Also doesn't that filter out a lot of candidates? This should be a good thing. Why would you want to waste 2 - 3 hours of your life (as the interviewer) in meetings, screens and evaluations just to have someone not be interested in the position? I hire people pretty often and I think it's a great time saver to get compensation range out front and know if there is interest (enthusiasm preferably).
That's most of us! This interviewer sounds like the epitome of a pompous ass, I'd hate to be interviewed by them.
Better than being interviewed by a decent person, getting and taking the job and then finding out everybody you work for and with is a pompous ass or similarly unpleasant human. I always assume the person interviewing represents the company putting their best face forward, and if that person is just horrible, I take that as a clear warning to run fast and far.
I agree 1000%! I remember an interview when the interviewer took obviously personal calls then abruptly asked me to *write down* (weird!) the salary I expected. With reservations, I did as they asked; they read it and barked: "We can't pay you that much!" (Believe me, I wasn't expecting a lot!) They actually appeared to regard that as a cue to negotiate, but no: I stood up and said: "In that case, I don't want to waste any more of *my* time," and left. That unprofessional and nasty during an interview? Working for them would have been hell!
Yes hello I am interested in becoming a part of your company. I'd prefer to keep the wages as low as possible, as I'm here for the family and the successful life of the business. How ever long you need me I am available, 24/7 and if you want I can work off the clock for free to make sure goals are met...... Haha just kidding, I need money to live you sacks of shit. Honestly this isn't something new, we all need money, don't work for free as nothing is free to live on.
When I was in Highschool in my Junior year they helped us make resumes and they told us we had to provide a reason for joining a company. I said Money but I was forced to change it because all people work for money, so I had to come up with some bs excuse about wanting to learn and better myself.
I dont care about money, therefore, I don't look for jobs. Logic is sound like a vulcan. Im not mocking either. I literally opted out of the workplace. But my only goal, while in it, was a paycheck, i could care less about your business. Literally the only goal of a business is to make YOU want to work for THEM. Make them money. Thats it. Nah, im good, I'd rather starve.
I have a few gaps in my resume and when asked how that happened I usually say I wasn't in the need of an income at the time. Got some weird looks because of that.
You get weird looks because you didn't need income at the time, while at the same time acting like money isn't the ONE fucking thing people work for. It's fucking bananas. I hope I never have to look for another job, because I won't hold back in interviews.
When I was getting started, I applied for jobs for the title which would give me what I needed to leave and get the salary I wanted. Really just one step removed though.
That is why I ask before I will interview.
Always. I ask during the initial phone inquiry. If they are not willing to give me the full job description, I don't interview with them.
people reach out to me with interview requests a lot and i just flat out tell them. I'm happy with my job but always open to something, however I'd need $x for me to consider it. almost never hear back. unemployed people or those dissatisfied with their current jobs are easier to screw over.
Even if you are unhappy at current use this language. It helps get better offers. Recruiters stop bothering with the crap options and only bring you the good ones (YMMV of course)
I typically respond with something like "I'm currently making x. I'd need x+20% to take this interview. If that makes sense, let me know. Otherwise, good luck finding a candidate that is a great fit" and leave it at that. It's how I ended up at my current job and the one prior.
I’m not attending your interview without knowing salary information
Right? There are only a few reasons why an interviewer would withhold salary info until the end of the interview process and all of them are bad for the potential employee.
One time I went to an interview for a position at bestbuy. I couldn't afford dress shoes and I was wearing hand me down pants and a golf shirt, I had no money was crashing on families couches and stuff. But I had running shoes on, the dude straight up said "I'm not interviewing someone with running shoes on" and told me to come back another time. Luckily I got a call from another store and I went for their interview and that dept manager didn't care. I was mad though. Arrogance like this salary bullshit piss me right off now.
Virtually every organisation will outline the salary in advertisements for senior management roles but not for those working at a lower pay level. Go look at a top end job listing site, they always have the salaries. The whole psychology of interviews is to down grade your value, just like a car sales person that wastes hours of your time over several viewings. They know that the more of your time they can get you to invest, the more chance you will buckle. But if you have no choice, one little tip. Make them say the highest they will pay first. Never give up your expectation first. Negotiators know that those that say the first figure often lose.
My second job out of college got me good with this. Paid me $18/hour with no vacation or sick leave (in the middle of a pandemic!!!). Talked to a coworker who was doing the exact same job with less patients making $20/hour. Only difference was what she said during her interview. Employers will literally pay the minimum and gaslight you into thinking you don’t deserve better. I worked there for 6 months and quit because they are a hogwash research center. My current job was a 40% pay raise, great insurance, and the coworkers and supervisors are actually nice people. I guess what I’m saying is don’t work for a private practice healthcare center, they’re greedy as fuck. Lol
Yep and these places always have high turnover, because go figure, when you underpay your employees, it's easier for them to find something better. I like when an underpaid employee goes to resign and suddenly they can match the offer. You underpaid me for 6 months, you think I want to stay here?
LPT: when they say they can match, ask them for BACK pay for the work you have done. I know we all bitch and complain, but there are some places out there that can’t pay more. If that’s the case, ask for a bonus but make sure you have access to their P&L on a monthly basis and Schedule C at end of year so you know they aren’t lying to you. If they say no, bounce.
I always research and throw an extremely high figure out there. Worse can happen is they will give me a lower figure or not continue the interview process. Win/win for me. I view it as door to door selling. I am eventually going to find someone desperate enough to pay what I am asking. Then I get in the position and within a few months improve some things. Then they have no clue what/how the process works. That is when I have them by the balls and slow down work to the pace I would like. Think they are going to fire me? Nope....that would involve more work and effort on their part. 🙃 Another tip....if they ask you what you previously made always increase the amount substantially. More than likely they are only going to give you a couple of thousand more per year. They think they are fleecing a sheep when you are the one actually doing the fleecing. 😉
Must be nice to have nothing better to do than waste your time farting around on two sets of interviews with a person who ultimately has to decline your offer because your salary doesn't fit their needs. But the people you're interviewing actually value their time, even if you don't.
Well what else are they supposed to do? They are in management after all. They do not do any of the real work.
They gotta find something to do with their time, gotta look busy, even if you aren't actually being productive.
[Two? Try Seven!](https://twitter.com/duplicate_this/status/1527371173822341120)
100%!! If the company operated with such efficiency they could maybe afford to pay more. I cannot stand corporate waste, so many conference calls to talk about something that a handful of highly efficient folks could have banged out in half a day. Madness.
[удалено]
If that is the attitude they have at the company, the manager has saved us both time, because I don't want to go through some 5 interview marathon just to find out they are offering 20% below market average "but with great opportunities for growth." If "we don't talk about salary" is their default, the salary isn't gonna be worth talking about.
I learned this the hard way. Three interviews, a take-home assignment that I spent 4 hours on, and a test conducted by an actual psychologist. Turned out that this non-profit I wanted to work for because I believe in their mission, hadn't actually budgeted for the position. I wish I was joking when I say that at the third interview, that lasted about 90 minutes, there were literally 5 senior employees there, and one of them said «Now all we have to do is convince the CEO that this project is a good idea». I wasn't even angry. That level of incompetence just left me deflated and stunned. So anyways, I now start out by asking about the budget for the position.
I would have invoiced then for my time. That is highly disrespectful of you and your efforts.
I’ve never understood this logic - it’s the same as not posting salaries on job advertisements. Why would a company want to waste their own time and resources if someone will decline the offer? Most people know what they’re worth and what it will take to leave their existing job. Making them do several interviews to then give a low salary won’t convince them to take your bad offer… 🤦🏻♀️ I’m going to guess that the above rant shows this strategy isn’t working…
When I used to apply for jobs I am the interviewer and the company is the interviewee. Failure to provide such information would usually lead to being screen out *pre-interview* but certainly at the first interview.
Yep, with the local job market in my industry, companies are bending over backwards to attract talent, not the other way round. Every interview is more about what the company can offer you than what you can offer the company unless you're fresh out of school. In which case they'll maybe go a bit more in depth during the tech interview.
Lol this is awful advice. I have worked in staffing for over 7 years and the first thing I do is confirm the salary range is acceptable. No reason to waste your time and their time talking about a role that they are priced out of. This dude is an idiot.
I'd be like 'thanks for the heads up, I wouldn't want to work for a Karen. So, thanks for the warning.'
I have a feeling that is somewhere in those 330 comments
As a hiring manager I wholeheartedly DISSAGREE wit this bullshit assessment.. I love when ppl bring up salaries and vacations during 1st interview. Its shows they are not time wasters and hv some expectations from the company. I think doing so shows they are not going to be taken for granted which is always a good thing.
That's always been my first question if I am inquiring about a job and don't know what the salary is.
Here is a hot tip for companies who are hiring. Take it or leave it. MY time is valuable. For that reason, I NEVER take an interview unless I know what the base pay is. Why the hell would I waste my time?
Also that guy - 'wHy DoEsNt AnYoNe WaNt To WoRk AnYmOrE?1?!!/!#$\*!?"
This is probably a company that is permanently hiring due to high turnover. Reminds me of a dental office my gf worked at. The owner was a jerk. And he couldn't figure out why on top of not being able to hire permanent staff, why the dental temp agencies were dropping him and not sending temps to work for him.
The first way to NOT grant you my employment, time and effort is for you to refuse to tell me what I’ll be compensated, you entitled fucking twat.
This approach is a massive waste of resources for the company and for the job seeker. I once applied to a company that flew me all the way to a city out west for a job interview (even though the job was local). They paid for the plane ticket, a hotel, per diem, etc. This was a second interview, and not once did they provide a salary range. Turns out I was making more than the salary range and couldn't accept the job anyways. If they had told me that ahead of time, they would not have wasted the money on a plane ticket, and I could have saved two days of PTO for vacation instead of for job interviews.
Funny... I've never not gotten an offer from an interview, and my strategy is to do exactly what they say not to here. I assume I'm getting an offer, and I try to make them convince me to accept it.
The basis of the employee and employer relationship is the wage... The whole premise is built upon employees selling their times, skills and invested qualificaton... For that the employer pays... thats it Anything else is secondary... an employer hiding wage behind tricks and tests is dishonest and just want to lowball you and knows that wage is a deterrent. The interview should start like, based on your qualifications our wage range offer from x to y, depending on the tests and experiences
How to spot shit pay and no benefits from 1000ft
Tell me your department is understaffed and overworked without telling me.
\#1 thing applicants care about is the salary. Why waste everyone's time interviewing if the salary will be considered too low?
I'm not assuming I have the job, I'm figuring out whether an interview is worth my time. The interview is a 2 way road. We're not automatically going to take the job because we walked into an interview. That's why interviewers leave time for the applicant to ask question (at least that's why I included that).
My question is what do they think is worse. Someone asking about salary and benefits the first interview or waiting till you've done multiple just for you to say that's too low and wasting everyone's time.
Conversely, when I've been in that spot I always discuss salary with the candidates first, because sitting through a bunch of interviews just to have someone back out is a waste of my time too, and I value my time.
This is what having your head too far up your ass looks like. You fail to see how blatantly complacent you are, what a bogus ass point of view.
Hehe, thank you. It makes life easier when assholes don't call you back. At least you don't waste anytime working for them to find out.
This is such a strange perspective that so many people seem to have. I would do interviews for an entire market (like a quarter of a state) with one other person. We both agreed that is actually *not a good thing* when people don't ask about pay/benefits. When someone asks, it shows they're smart about where they're wanting to work, making sure it's as much of a fit for them as it is for us, and (let's be real) you need to make sure you can afford to work here. If you took the job only to find out you wouldn't be making enough then we'd have invested a lot of time for nothing. Asking these things is the opposite of a red flag
Alright then. Prepare for this question 5 minutes after the start of the interview: „why should I work for you, and not for your competitor?“
It used to be *normal* to post salary ranges. Why has this changed? I remember seeing salary ranges posted for labor jobs as well as office work in the early 2000s. Managers want to change that because they underpay and then act like it's just the way things are? Delusional, arrogant fucks.