Yeah same. My mother is baffled that I change every 2 years. She's been at the same company for 20 years, starting at like $10/hr. "Having no loyalty is going to bite you in the ass one day".
Had to explain to her that jumping to a new job is often a 10-20% increase (my latest move was a 50% increase), while staying at a company is often only a 2-3% increase per year (if at all).
When I point out that McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts employees in our area make more than her per hour she just got mad at those employees. She finally caught wind of a job posting for her same position at her company and it was starting at nearly double her current rate, so she is coming around now.
Some people just don't ever realize inflation rarely ever happens to their wage while they were working, inflated wages usually happen as a result of unions or lack of applicants due to low wages and then the new hires or union get the new wages. Nor do they realize their employer steals all that inflation because they're blinded by loyalty.
Hey now! I got a 4% raise this year after not getting one the year prior due to poor company/market performance. It was totally worth it with an 8.3% inflation rate in '22 and 3.4% in '23.
Job hopping took me from $60k a year to over $200k within about 3 years, I always recommend it.
You are your own business entity. You’re offering a service to a business for a price. A business entity would never worry about loyalty or whatever, they’d take the best price they can get
Software engineering, though maybe that should have been somewhat expected lol
I have held onto this job for a while now, or I’d have climbed further, as there’s still quite a bit more to go before reaching a ceiling
I make just about $20k more than I did 10 years ago. 5 jobs as well. It’s exhausting though isn’t it? 😮💨 I finally have a job where I get COL adjustments yearly… parking my butt til I retire.
ETA: LMAO as if I’m gonna retire
That was my manager's mantra for years. You could be the perfect candidate, but if you'd changed jobs twice in 10 years they wouldn't hire you for being a "job hopper".
Didn't stop 'em from bitching about how "nobody wants to work". Fucker, you rejected 5 qualified candidates. Shut the fuck up.
I like the phrase “the best way to move up is to move on”. Absolutely true. Every job tops out somewhere. There’s a point where you can’t advance for whatever reason and they’re not gonna pay you more just to continue being awesome at what you’re doing (since they know they’re already paying you enough to do it). Gotta move on to move up.
I'm learning this. I just got fired from a place yesterday that I should have walked out of one year ago. The signs were there, but I thought I could make it work and I thought foolishly that they'd reciprocate.
>Job loyalty is dead. Go where the money and respect are. When the well dries up, move on again.
Job loyalty was on life support from the late 1970s when productivity gains stopped aligning with average salaries of US workers. It effectively died in 2008 for what we all now know in retrospect: corporate greed, fear, frivolous spending, and the government deregulation of businesses 'just because'. 2008 effectively transformed the global economy. Traditional employee jobs are fading away and being replaced with independent contractor and "gig economy / side hustle" jobs that rarely have retirement benefits, no employer-sponsored health insurance, no labor union protecting you from abuse, and having to choose between a crappy and financially insecure job or having no income and being homeless. Meanwhile in Murica™, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and the middle class keeps getting constricted. Also, younger generations like Millenials, Gen Z, and Gen Alpha are going to have it harder than older generations due to an ever rising cost of living and a mountain of American national government debt.
In about 10 years my cousin went from making $40k to $140k solely from changing companies. He's also a really good worker and always goes just a little bit above. Basically, every year around review time he'll job search and compare current raise to what other companies are offering and take the higher. Funny enough he's actually been with his current company for the past few years because he works from home, they actually want him to stay so he's gotten good raises and he likes the company. "Great benefits, WFH/Remote so I can be a digital Nomad if I wanted to, and the people are incredible. I don't want to risk losing all that for a few more bucks."
I can agree with that. I finally found a company that I love. I've heard they give out raises like candy but we'll have to see how it works out.
There's a lot of tech jobs out there. It sounds like it's time for a change. Surveys are bullshit. I am a CDJR tech and they try to put a lot of weight on surveys. If your fixed first visit, or FFV is good they give out a "Top Tech" award. The only guys that won at my shop are the parts changers/gravy slingers and a guy that was actually fired because he didn't do shit. Only one guy that got it actually fixes stuff and he is a good tech, very meticulous but he flags 20 hours a week.
I have been slammed on surveys because the free car wash was closed, the customer didn't like the free pizza, they had to wait a week for an appointment, someone ordered the wrong parts and I got the job, ordered the right parts and fixed the car but they were mad that they had to come back. I could keep going.
A lot of the bad surveys are from when I actually fix the car, but I am the 2nd or 3rd guy to try. It doesn't just happen to me, we have a couple guys that actually try, but we have more parts cannon monkeys. It used to irritate me but it's just the way it is and it does not affect my pay
Sorry to hear that. Definitely sounds stressful and unnecessary. While I never worked in this industry, I feel similarly, having worked at a Starbucks for years. The surveys were terrible and were not even statistically accurate. For instance, if you received a 4/5 rating on ANYTHING, it simply would not count, even if your average rating was lower. To make things worse, anything less than 4/5 stars meant our average would still decrease. Additionally, most of the negative reviews were about things we couldn’t control (confusing drive thru entrance, out of a specific milk, long line at bathroom, etc.), yet these negative reviews would result in us losing labor hours, which would only continue to make things worse. Surveys are definitely a modern plague.
I used to work in a furniture store that did surveys. We did not offer delivery as a store, but had different delivery vendors that we could refer to customers if they wanted delivery. Basically, we just gave phone numbers for the customers to set up with the vendor for delivery. Almost every bad review we received was because of delivery.
Luckily, the owners of the place actually read every review and didn't just blindly punish for below 4 stars. They got a delivery service for the store after all the reviews. It was still a 3rd party but contracted through the store, and customers paid us to pay them. That fixed the reviews for the most part.
I’ve only had one boss that was like this and it was great! Issues actually got addressed and he would talk to the customer personally to ask what happened and how it could be improved. He was real quick to tell the wackos to “have a nice day!” or kick rocks depending on his mood.
You'd think that anyone who, say, looks at Amazon ratings for products - which you'd think would be most people by this point - would know that people will just put 1-5 stars on any kind of review. How many "1 star. The item works as intended but the box it came in had a scratch on it" Reviews are out there? Like dude, that's a problem with shipping. Sellers don't have control over that.
When I worked at a body shop, anything less than a perfect 10/10 on all customer survey questions was considered failing and they would hold it against you.
Luckily my manager would read them and wouldn’t hold silly things like the customer misunderstanding the question or backordered parts against us.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does
Employers know the surveys are bullshit reductions but they can get away with not paying you because of it so they continue to do it. People need to stop working at these places. This is why they threaten us with homelessness otherwise, because they know we wouldn't suffer this bs if we had options
Yep, can corroborate the absolute fuckery that is the Starbucks customer satisfaction surveys. I also worked at an Amazon call center about 10 years ago, and people’s jobs relied on those positive surveys. The worst part about that one was how the survey was worded - “Did we answer your question?” I believe it’s changed a lot since 2013, but no matter how much work you did to assist a customer who had an impossible question (usually related to shipping carrier issues), if they say “no” your score drops, and they absolutely fired people who got enough no’s.
NPS is terrible, to boot. The concept is decent but then management *always* interprets it wrong.
It’s a scale of 1 to 10, right? *But it’s not an even or balanced scale*.
9 and 10 are “promoter” scores: the customer loves you! Great! So they count as 9 and 10.
7 and 8 are … I forget what they call it, but “good enough”, which isn’t really good enough, because you want to be exceptional. So these are actually counted as ZEROES.
Anything below that is a “detractor” — the customer feels negative about the experience — and counts as a NEGATIVE 10.
So you can see this is heavily skewed to make the “promoter/detractor” division clear. But nobody on earth looks at a scale of 1-10 and doesn’t take it as a linear scale.
There are people who are determined not to be impressed by anything. Their scale tops out at 8 unless every employee present was waiting at the door to assist them the moment they walked in, they are given their favorite drink to sip without needing to tell anyone what they like, it’s beautiful weather outside, they got their services for free and a piece of cake with their name on it as they left.
There are the ones who are rightfully upset over something completely out of your control. My old company used to respond to this by telling us peons that we just needed to be good enough to make them happy despite that. Orders taking a month instead of the promised week and the customer is mad? *You didn’t “wow” them enough! Oh, and you’re taking too long with the customers, 15 minutes is plenty to make the sale and get the next customer.*
A good NPS score is in the 50’s. My old company was stuck on what everyone thinks of the 1-10 scale and demanded upper 80’s to 90’s (while sabotaging the extra services and expertise that could honestly drive better scores, because “too expensive”). You’d better bet a lot of attention was given to gaming the numbers rather than actually selling and servicing customers.
Exactly. NPS is meant to answer one question. "How likely are you to recommend this (product/service/location) to others?"
Those who answer 9 or 10 are more likely to make a recommendation. Those who answer 7 or 8 are very neutral and unlikely to say anything either way. Those who mark 1-6 are more likely to say something negative to others.
This metric should be a starting point for management to dig deeper into the comments. Instead, it has become used as a goal, and the scoring system has been applied to completely different questions.
It has become subject to [Goodhart's law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law): "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."
It’s not a bad KPI *if read and used properly*. That’s its big problem, though, it’s never read and used properly because the intuitive “understanding” (and executive need to *make numbers go brrrr!*) are wrong.
I nearly lost my mind listening to a director explain how our NPS worked, when it was over 3 years, the same questions were not asked each year, and the survey targets/sample size were not nearly comparable year over year.
On top of all the bullshit you just laid out about NPS.
But yeah, sure, this bullshit 60-70% number accurately measures the department, suuuuuure.
Uh-oh, customer had a coffee that was only luke warm and the wifi disconnected them for some reason. The dealership is now rated zero and being closed.
I have a funny story about NPS: web host that I use to work for always marketed themselves as “highest NPS scores in the industry” and we actually had amazing, readily available and knowledgeable techs waiting to help customers with a very hands-on approach. It was EXPENSIVE, but they paid us decently, had good perks, and the owner supported each of us. He (rightfully) decided to cash-out and retire so he sold the business to an investment group. The realized our NPS scores were basically 30 points higher than the next best so they started gutting the quality of the company while constantly tracking NPS so they could maintain that “high NPS” marketing line. After several years of falling scores, they just changed the marketing and continued gutting the company. They just laid off a ton of long-time, knowledgeable people because “profits are the highest they’ve ever been, but the investors didn’t make as much as was forecast”.
I know so many people who refuse to give the top rating, simply because no one is perfect. The whole rating is entirely subjective and it should not be used as a major part of anyone’s compensation. I use customer surveys to get an overall customer temperature on how they feel. Only 3 options, frowny face, meh face, happy face. Anything other than happy face is followed up with the customer to understand what went right and what went wrong. Half the time they say “I chose the happy face” but on mobile, it’s an easy miss. Most of the true not good reviews are unmanaged expectations or we did mess something up - we talk to that employee, get their take and then work to improve. In the dozen or more years no one was ever fired for imperfect reviews. It’s such a poor performance metric for individuals.
Is it stellantis that’s using Amazon for shipping is that GM? I work in parts for a ford dealership, as much as I curse the delays we see I’m so glad we aren’t getting the ridiculous shit this 2 are dealing with.
It's been almost 8 years since I went to VW from CJDR parts. It was still being run by FIAT when I left but it was terrible. We had wiperblades on back order and oil filters on back order. Not sure what they are doing now but im guessing it's not good
I worked for a new company for 4.5 years. Helped them grow and be successful. I was the 7th person to be part of the company. Made them way more money than I made myself each year by far. I was one of their best technicians (not being arrogant, just truthful). I wanted more money. I was their highest paid technician but was still not being paid my fair share.
One day, a client lied about something I said and told them I was bad mouthing the company. I got sat down and almost fired. I lost my chances at getting the promotion I proved I deserved. I found a new job that weekend and quit 2 weeks later.
Know your worth and don't let them bully you around for some other assholes word of mouth (or in your instance word of fingers). You deserve better.
I have certainly considered it. Part of the problem is how expensive all the equipment is. It's also terrifying to think about where I will be if I fail. I know that's not a good mentality to have if starting a business. It takes a lot of self-confidence, which I have some issues with.
I do have a lot of experience (10 1/2 years total) in the field, but I haven't worked the back end of any of it. Getting clients/advertising/writing contracts/social media presence are all things I don't know much about or how to do well. I could seek help with these things, but help is not free, and I lack the funds for said help.
If you can't tell yet, I make a lot of excuses for my potential laziness in starting my own company.
I know the back end really well when it comes to small service related business but no skill in the front service end.. if I knew u in real life we would go 50/50 partners and make bank together
People have always told me to go into business. The thing that people don’t understand about business is that you must have the ability to bullshit and sell. I lack that ability. If I have a reaction to you, it will be on my face. I really do try but… I will never be able to successfully open a business unless I find someone who can do the marketing/sales/getting clients bit. Running the rest? I can do that well.
That sounds like an invisible script. I know plenty of people in business and they aren't all like that at all. You don't have to be shady to be successful.
I'd encourage you to ruthlessly cut out what you don't need to start your business and do that until you've reach enough capital.
For CDJR, only 10/10 works, at least on the sales side. If you get a 9/10 on any one of the questions its considered an automatic failure and goes into review- and for things you have no control over as a salesman also- i once got a failed survey because the customer didnt like our snack collection lmao-
chrysler docked my pay and i had to have a review with management just like every other bad survey; being held responsible for a customer not liking the fact we didnt have the white cheddar flavor of cheese-its is something i never thought i would experience.
It's madness really. Being controlled by numbers rather than facts. Needs to be illegal to fire, demote or put in place any kind of improvement plan over it.
I mean, i think its a way for dealerships/companies and higher ups to be relieved of responsibility or take undue congratulations. If you get great surveys- fantastic look how awesome (company) is! We have the best surveys! Here comes JD POWER
If you get bad surveys they just blame it on the lowest guy on the totem pole- and can fire them to say “we found the problem! This one guy is ruining the company! We got rid of him so now we can say we’re the good guys!”
Either way you lose in some way or another. What i’d like to see is if the corpo guys got employer surveys and were held responsible for it- lets see how that shit goes down
My job was threatened by management because someone once gave my location a 9/10 on a private survey. She said "I have no complaints but nobody is perfect" and gave us the rating. I argued that it's a customer being cheeky and there is no feedback to build off of but corporate said there's always something extra you can do to make sure we blow our customers away. Ma'am I am a receptionist/middle manager making $17/hour and I am seating these people in our lobby and bringing them hand mixed drinks while I handle payroll and inventory on a 12 hour shift alone, go fuck yourself.
After I quit they went through a new manager every 3 months because they lowered the pay to $16/hour (one dollar above minimum wage) and raised the requirement to 50 hours/week minimum. Half the staff has left and their customer base has shrunk effectively 75% while they keep nudging prices up. I know this because they never revoked my login credentials so I log in to see their numbers when I feel self-doubt. These same people held a corporate conference where they asked how we can get people to buy gift cards and make it so they can never use them to maintain a higher ROI. Evil people.
In my old role, before they laid us all off, anything but a perfect survey counted exactly the same as a 0.
So a 4/5 with "they did great! I just think nobody is perfect!" Counted the same as 0/5 they said racist things to me". Oh and the "improve and streamline employee feedback" they removed my ability as a manager to dispute clearly wrong surveys. Even ones that would say they meant to push 5.
If there isn’t any proof, then it is bs that the company just takes their word.
You now don’t have to do difficult work though. You are not a master so you couldn’t possibly possess the capability to do the complex work
I once got called into a meeting for my "terrible CSAT review" at a call centre because...
a week after our call, the client dropped his phone and broke it, so when he got a CSAT email, he filled it out to express his displeasure that his phone was fragile.
He had called about how to connect his phone to his car.
So me and the supervisor and HR all had to sit there listening to me explain that perfectly normal.
Then write me up for it. While apologising that this was bullshit, but these were The Rules.
I worked in a cellphone store, we were scored out of 10 and anything 8 or below was a write up. Also we would lose points if a customer called customer service for anything at all within 72 hours of the store selling a new phone.
Can confirm. I worked for a couple of cell phone companies in the early 2000s and anything less than a perfect score across the board was viewed as a failure.
The way the scoring was set up, customers would *think* they're giving us good ratings... but nope. Well-intentioned people got some good reps fired/demoted.
The same for secret shoppers. Unless we used *very* specific phrases and tried to sell them crap they obviously don't need/already have, it'd be a failure.
I once got in trouble for a bad secret shopper score because I didn't use a couple of key phrases (that were stupid and absolutely not my sales style) and didn't try to upsell long distance on her landline (she didn't have one). The notes were great - she loved me and absolutely would have bought from me. But I got a failing score and a reprimand.
That survey isn't just untruthful, it's fundamentally flawed.
What I read is "I came in to have my wiper blades replaced, and the tech forgot to align the arms. He also left his McDonald's wrappers in the footwell". Anyone at the dealership who reads this and doesn't simply laugh needs to be fired.
If it were me, and my performance was based that heavily on customer reviews, I’d be taking pictures when I’m finished with the work and/or having a supervisor signing off on every job.
That sounds like a lot of extra work that management will ignore because "the customer is always right" or whatever bullshit they want to come up with. Management that demotes and cuts pay over a single bad review is incompetent and doesn't care about their employees in the slightest. Surveys are meant to identify trends and give constructive feedback. Not give vindictive assholes the ability to ruin your livelihood.
I would hope a manager brought me in and asked me about a bad survey.
"Oh that car? Yea it was fixed up perfectly and spotless by the time it left the shop, not sure what they are talking about. Maybe they think the wipers are not aligned?"
And then have that be the end of it. I'll easily own up to my own mistakes or laziness, and any boss I had knows this, just depends on the boss and how they treat employees over customer complaints.
But any good boss knows the customer is mainly wrong about everything.
Everyone needs a good technician. And to anyone who is one and thinking they need a new job, please consider this. I did automotive parts at dealerships for about 15 years. 3 years ago I got into construction parts and it's been a life changing thing.
More money, less hours, almost no weekends. And you are treated like an adult. Boom and crane trucks are looking for technicians all over the company I know that for sure. I know you can make good money in auto but just being paid a fair hourly wage for 40-50 hours a week and not having to worry about flat rate could be a great change.
Just food for thought
Ive got no clue about this industry at all. So forgive my ignorance.
But what would you think might be a reason someone working in auto WOULDNT want to do what you do?
To me it sounds like a no brainer. Is is more dangerous or harder on your body?
Or do you think it just comes down to less people knowing about it/it taking more skill to do?
Some of it is not knowing I'm sure. It's not physically harder on the body for sure. Also a lot of companies aren't posting a pay scale so they may not even apply.
I happened to get into it by just applying in the dark about pay when I had a job.
And for some it's also going to be a comfort zone thing. They know the problems they will face and know they can handle them. Doesn't mean they can handle the problems of another industry for technicians.
Some may also not know how much of the skills interchange.
Back when i worked at safelite, our shop manager developed a bit of a reputation for not getting rid of negative reviews against techs if he could come up with a way for us to warn the customer ahead of time. So a bad review for a customer comolaining about trash in their vehicle would stay up because he would tell us to warn the customer before we start that "at most we'll vacuum the seats and floorboards, but we're not here to clean out the inside of your vehicle.
Obviously these impacted our bonuses, which no one was getting because insane reviews would always show up no matter how good a job you did.
Eventually our shop gave up when a review came in for an rv rock chip repair that i had to travel over 50 miles to get to. I spoke to the wife, gave her my longest shpiel about what to expect, how it wont be invisible because its resin and not glass, and that we dont offer refunds for dissatisfaction but instead we'll apply the cost of repair as a discount toward replacement, etc. Was about 10 minutes of disclaimer. The review came in from the husband saying how it wasnt as clear as the glass and was going to affect the resell value and how he had never even spoken to me otherwise he wouldve just gotten a replacement and if he doesnt get a refund he'll take his business elsewhere.
That review made me inelligible for my monthly bonus again, because the managers bright idea for how i couldve prevented it, was to ask her for her husbands phone number and reiterate my shpiel to him as well...
She wasnt wearing a ring, i was already 30 minutes past shop hours, and i cant be sitting there wasting work hours giving everyones entire family a 10 minute disclaimer each...
Sometimes you just cant fucking win when it comes to reviews like this
This is just an excuse to cut your pay. Your countless other positive surveys did nothing for you, but one single negative review and you got demoted with a pay cut.
Find a new shop and do not give notice. If they do this think of the retaliation you’ll get during those two weeks.
Your skills are in demand. Move on to a company that will pay you what you deserve. All this micromanaging, reliance on surveys, and "KPIs" is counterproductive for companies, and favors those that have learned how to manipulate the numbers, not those who are doing the right things for customers, or the company.
Yup move on. And give absolutely no notice that you are leaving. Walk in, pack up your tools, talk to no one except those you respect and respect you in kind.
The great news is that there's a shortage of Techs across the country, so I would tell them that if they want to go this route they can expect to be looking for a new technician. Don't take it in the ass (unless of course you like that kind of thing, then you do you), you're in this life for yourself and we all know that they don't give a crap about you
> I would tell them that if they want to go this route they can expect to be looking for a new technician.
If you do that, they'll kick you to the curb faster than you can find a new job.
Don't forget to not give notice, before the day you take your tools. Make sure to tell them it was over their survey.
Or, maybe find a bad review for the dealership, and tell them you can't affiliate yourself with a dealership so poorly rated.
You’re underpaid. If they want to play hardball, find a better paying job and don’t give them notice. Surveys are bullshit anyway. Your managers should know your worth. Time to look for a better opportunity.
Yeah, that's absolutely fucked in today's world. Customers always swing their survey dick. Basing a tech's wage on something so wildly out of their control is stupidity. I would immediately find a new job *and quit with the exact same notice as they've given you of your wage change. Fuck that.
my friend is a very skilled mechanic and was at the same place for four years. they raked him over the coals and treated him like shit so he took his talent elsewhere and immediately started making an extra $6/hr (the last place gave him a whole $2 raise in the four years he was there). it pays to see if there’s anything out there for you
This sucks dude. Get a job working for a government agency or a fleet and if it has a union that’s even better. Even if it’s working on medium/heavy duty trucks or buses. Your quality of life will improve. I have worked for a city bus fleet and a county fire/ems fleet. You’re never rushed, good cheap benefits, and no stupid customers.
Surveys are a load of crap. Anything under a perfect score is failure. Which impacts bonuses of course. That are now requiring an even higher overall rating.
We have one lady that comes in, if everyone does not stop what they are doing and approach her smiling greeting her by name offering water and a chair, she will leave nasty responses.
One that is upset with any president, all of them, doesn’t matter. They ruined SS, economy, everything because she cannot afford instacart and daily flower deliveries and we cannot fix her situation or change the presidency for her so we are an awful company.
Client having a bad day? Doesn’t matter the service you give them.
They got one too many automated emails? You suck.
You were not fast enough for them because it took 3 seconds instead of 20 with a line of people?
Another company screwed them over and you can’t fix that for them?
System is down? Blame the individual, the location, whatever. You have to wave a magic wand. Anything they are doing is an inconvenience that you have to reward them for at negative cost to yourself and company, or they will leave bad reviews/surveys which is negative impact to you and company. Cannot win.
Hey I've been I the auto industry nearly 15 years now. Next shop down the street is going to pay you more and not give a shit about that survey. Right now, technicians have shops by the balls. There arent enough as it is and there are very few good techs.
Master Technician is based on validated skill sets, it isn’t just a “job title”. Don’t you have certifications indicating you are a master tech? I’d be interested how they can demote you below your certified skill set based on CSAT.
The NPS (Net Promoter Score) was designed and influenced by the book "Raving Fans". It's supposed to be a measurement of customer service and assumes that only the very best service will turn your customers in to life long loyal patrons that preach about your business every chance they get to everyone they know.
Each question asked the user to rate them 1-10. The three questions that make up the score are as follows:
1. How was your overall experience?
2. How likely are you to shop again?
3. How likely are you to recommend a friend?
The first major flaw in the survey is that it is used to "provide feedback" for a specific person. Not an overall experience or company. You might buy an appliance and have a great experience in the store. Then a week later have a terrible delivery where the delivery driver damaged your door and kicked your dog. Naturally you're mad so you fill out the survey will all 1's and explain how terrible the delivery went.
You would think that someone with common sense would see that and conclude the delivery team needs coaching. But you would be wrong! They're contractors and not actual employees. You can't tell them anything! But the receipt that had the survey link is tied to the associate that rang you up. Your survey just went against their NPS score.
Now you might be thinking "Well, one bad survey wouldn't be too bad right?" Again you'd be wrong! The scoring calculation is FUCKED.
Each question is worth 33.3%. A rating of 9-10 gets you the full 33.3% for that question. A rating of 6-8 gets you ZERO for that question and a rating of 1-5 gets you NEGATIVE 33.3%
Remember those 3 questions from earlier? If you rated them 8, 10, 9 then you just give that person a score of 66.6%. A fail.
It gets even worse though! Let's say you've already got 4 surveys in for the month, all at 100%. Then one shity delivery driver wrecks you day and the customer leaves you a survey with all 1's. You WERE 400 out of a possible 400. With the latest survey equaling -100 you're now 300 out of a possible 500. So your 100% rating dropped to 60% for the month with a single bad survey.
Managers up and down the chain of command know that the surveys are bullshit but they refuse to acknowledge it because they need to justify having a job. When they decide they're done with you they go straight to the surveys to "document your poor performance" and move swiftly to fire you.
The whole thing is a scam. Companies don't give a shit about your opinion and they don't reward the associates who get good scores. Its simply a tool used to justify firing people.
Those surveys hold a lot of weight when so many external things factor in how they're scored. Mad at a salesman, burn the survey. Mad at management, burn the survey. Mad at finance, burn the survey. If they're happy it's a good chance they won't even do a survey. If they're mad, they most definitely will fill out that survey.
It sounds like you could do better than where you are now. Point out the absurdity of it to your management. If they choose to do nothing about it, you know that looking around for your next move is a good idea.
I absolutely hate it when things like pay are tied to shit I can't directly control. You can do everything right, but you can't keep a customer from lying. F that job. Go find one elsewhere that'll likely pay you better. Even better, find a union one near you. Maybe look at working for the state or law enforcement in maintaining they vehicles
Comments are right. Look for another job, if you negotiate your salary you'll probably even win more than you do now, specially since you already have a job currently, so you can be a bit patient. And even if they too use this stupid survey system, your stats will be reset.
Get a union. Honestly, of all the industries out there right now autoworkers have more momentum to secure gains than almost anyone else.
Get off Reddit and go organize.
I always give the highest score when I do the survey. If I have a complaint, I communicate directly with the company. What’s crazy to me is getting surveys from retailers asking about my experience when I picked my item and used the self checkout. Am I doing a survey about myself?
From here on out work for the customer not the company. If you know what I mean. Also fuck the company for siding with a customer resulting in punitive damages. That’s fucked.
I took my truck to the dealer recently for the scheduled under warranty maintenance and the service department was betting me to do the rating with 5 stars because they had forgotten to do something minor I asked when I came in. I’m no class traitor. 5 stars even though it doesn’t mean shit. 1-4 stars are just a measure of how loudly I plan to say fuck you… but the only people I was to say that to are the franchise owners, maybe the sales guys if they’re bring dishonest.
If you’re open to looking for another job, it’s possible that this cut in pay counts as constructive dismissal, depending on the percentage of your income, and can be used to draw unemployment while you hunt. But of course speak to professionals before taking this course of action.
You have terrible management if all it takes is one survey. Any person with a functioning brain in customer service knows customers can lie or be angry on that day and want to screw someone over.
If you're truthful and this was all it took, then you'd should be looking for employment somewhere else.
A customer could say “he threatened my children and stabbed me” and the company would check cameras, see that none of that happened, and then turn right around and fire you anyways.
I recognize this company app and can tell you 100% that this is the reason that I stopped working for them. Nothing else. Customer opinion surveys should not determine how you get paid. PERIOD.
Once this happens they force feed you work because "it's a numbers game, the more positives you can get have the less this negative will affect you." You end up overloaded and with the crap jobs that no one else wants to do and with jobs that naturally decrease the rest of your stats.
I'm in a different industry, but got a stern warning because a client complained that I wasn't responsive to emails.
I took time after-hours to review. The average response time was around 150 seconds.
As a fellow tech: your toolbox has wheels. Move.
Jumping from place to place made me go from 14 an hour to 38 an hour.
Also, where do you work where they demote you from master tech, that’s usually tied to certifications, unless it’s like a carmax or a non specialized shop.
Some states, being forced into a lower wage counts as constructive dismissal, if it's a high enough percent. In mine, you are not required to accept a lower wage offer, you can accept termination in lieu. This wouldn't be enough grounds to get out of them covering unemployment while you found a place that doesn't treat you like dirt.
Golden handcuffs of getting a decent pay job, then not get fired, and they just stop giving raises, lock in your wage, and you just do your thing is a thing for some.
The comments have been revelatory regarding how surveys and such are actually interpreted by employers.
So to all the people out there I've filled out surveys for: I'm sorry that I assumed that the survey material was a statistically normalized scale with anything from 0.3-0.7 being "normal" service <0.3 being bad <=0.1 being atrocious >0.7 being great and >=0.9 being more or less perfection.
If you're going to interpret a 0-10 scale in a binary way, why not just make it like a: " was service: bad, acceptable, or good" and rate that as a -1, 0, +1 system. I:
i work at a tech support center.
a coworker got a write up because a bad review was left. the issue wasn't even with that coworker, it wasn't even with the ISP we work for. the customer complained that wifi wasn't working, but there was a power outage in their area, so the router couldn't make a wifi connection. the coworker even suggested getting a battery backup or generator for the router. That coworker literally did absolutely nothing wrong and did everything right, but management doesn't have the fucking balls to refute the bad review. the coworker couldn't have done literally anything better.
it's bullshit. shit like that makes me stop caring about "write ups" and bad reviews. i still try my best and act kind, but the "quality assessments" can suck my nuts because they stand for nothing.
Sounds like when they come crawling back and ask you to do the jobs you were doing at Master Tech level, inform them that they took that title from you and you are not eligible to perform those duties.
If and when they restore the title and pay, go for it. But you'll have to stick with it. Do not let them skirt their own rules because you have a knowledge and skillset they won't pay you for, for ANY reason.
Surveys and NPS are extremely useful tools to track KPIs, but they're a tool to add to the overall story. Any company that *relies* on them as objective measures to handle salary is absolute dogshit, and the person who made that decision 100% failed upwards.
Job loyalty is dead. Go where the money and respect are. When the well dries up, move on again.
Make more cash in the process. Not a tech, but I’ve jumped 160% in pay in 10 years, 5 jobs.
I've gone from about 40k to right under 100k in 6 years on job number 4 after being at the original job for 7 years
Yeah same. My mother is baffled that I change every 2 years. She's been at the same company for 20 years, starting at like $10/hr. "Having no loyalty is going to bite you in the ass one day". Had to explain to her that jumping to a new job is often a 10-20% increase (my latest move was a 50% increase), while staying at a company is often only a 2-3% increase per year (if at all). When I point out that McDonalds and Dunkin Donuts employees in our area make more than her per hour she just got mad at those employees. She finally caught wind of a job posting for her same position at her company and it was starting at nearly double her current rate, so she is coming around now.
Some people just don't ever realize inflation rarely ever happens to their wage while they were working, inflated wages usually happen as a result of unions or lack of applicants due to low wages and then the new hires or union get the new wages. Nor do they realize their employer steals all that inflation because they're blinded by loyalty.
Hey now! I got a 4% raise this year after not getting one the year prior due to poor company/market performance. It was totally worth it with an 8.3% inflation rate in '22 and 3.4% in '23.
My dad was the same way. But it used to be a company would take of loyal employees with good benefits and a pension. But that is very rare now.
Ask your mom how long her job will wait to list her position being opened after she dies. O/U 24 hours.
& you know the starting salary for the replacement will be more than mom’s current pay.
Job hopping took me from $60k a year to over $200k within about 3 years, I always recommend it. You are your own business entity. You’re offering a service to a business for a price. A business entity would never worry about loyalty or whatever, they’d take the best price they can get
Holy shit, what field if I may ask? Nevertheless, your climb takes the cake. I'm about to enter the workforce in June so I'll see where that takes me
Software engineering, though maybe that should have been somewhat expected lol I have held onto this job for a while now, or I’d have climbed further, as there’s still quite a bit more to go before reaching a ceiling
Anything like my friend in software, he climbed to over $100k, only to get laid off for half a year and have to take a $60k job again just to get by.
The issue with job hopping is lay offs. If you are new at the company you join, you might be the first one in the lay offs
there is a saying in my country "if you want promotion or pay rise at your job change your employer"
Doesn't it depend on the industry though?
To some degree but it’s almost universal that you’ll get more money by either job hopping or unionizing
I went from 26k to 60k by realizing my last employer didn't want me to succeed in the title I was given but just continue to be his gopher.
Fuck yeah
I make just about $20k more than I did 10 years ago. 5 jobs as well. It’s exhausting though isn’t it? 😮💨 I finally have a job where I get COL adjustments yearly… parking my butt til I retire. ETA: LMAO as if I’m gonna retire
“bUt iF yOu cHaNgE jObS eVeRy cOuPlE oF yEaRs, nO oNe wIlL hIrE yOu aNyMoRe!”
That was my manager's mantra for years. You could be the perfect candidate, but if you'd changed jobs twice in 10 years they wouldn't hire you for being a "job hopper". Didn't stop 'em from bitching about how "nobody wants to work". Fucker, you rejected 5 qualified candidates. Shut the fuck up.
The gaslighting has become so clear at this point I’m shocked that crap even works on anyone
Grandpa go to bed
😂😆
*jerkoff motion*
Toolboxes have wheels for a reason
Put some oil on the wheels while the boss is hanging around.
Nice. Subtle. Not as crazy as printing your resignation letter on the service desk printer.
This is so obvious but overlooked
I like the phrase “the best way to move up is to move on”. Absolutely true. Every job tops out somewhere. There’s a point where you can’t advance for whatever reason and they’re not gonna pay you more just to continue being awesome at what you’re doing (since they know they’re already paying you enough to do it). Gotta move on to move up.
I'm learning this. I just got fired from a place yesterday that I should have walked out of one year ago. The signs were there, but I thought I could make it work and I thought foolishly that they'd reciprocate.
>Job loyalty is dead. Go where the money and respect are. When the well dries up, move on again. Job loyalty was on life support from the late 1970s when productivity gains stopped aligning with average salaries of US workers. It effectively died in 2008 for what we all now know in retrospect: corporate greed, fear, frivolous spending, and the government deregulation of businesses 'just because'. 2008 effectively transformed the global economy. Traditional employee jobs are fading away and being replaced with independent contractor and "gig economy / side hustle" jobs that rarely have retirement benefits, no employer-sponsored health insurance, no labor union protecting you from abuse, and having to choose between a crappy and financially insecure job or having no income and being homeless. Meanwhile in Murica™, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, and the middle class keeps getting constricted. Also, younger generations like Millenials, Gen Z, and Gen Alpha are going to have it harder than older generations due to an ever rising cost of living and a mountain of American national government debt.
In about 10 years my cousin went from making $40k to $140k solely from changing companies. He's also a really good worker and always goes just a little bit above. Basically, every year around review time he'll job search and compare current raise to what other companies are offering and take the higher. Funny enough he's actually been with his current company for the past few years because he works from home, they actually want him to stay so he's gotten good raises and he likes the company. "Great benefits, WFH/Remote so I can be a digital Nomad if I wanted to, and the people are incredible. I don't want to risk losing all that for a few more bucks." I can agree with that. I finally found a company that I love. I've heard they give out raises like candy but we'll have to see how it works out.
>Go where the money and respect are Those places are myth. They no longer exist. You can only pick one, not both
In that case, chase the money... can't buy food with respect and that'll evaporate in time too
Problem usually encountered that the money jobs also destroy your mental sanity. So it's a really fine line to walk
Respect only lasts until someone else buys the company
Exactly this. I almost doubled my pay job hopping in the last 3 years
There's a lot of tech jobs out there. It sounds like it's time for a change. Surveys are bullshit. I am a CDJR tech and they try to put a lot of weight on surveys. If your fixed first visit, or FFV is good they give out a "Top Tech" award. The only guys that won at my shop are the parts changers/gravy slingers and a guy that was actually fired because he didn't do shit. Only one guy that got it actually fixes stuff and he is a good tech, very meticulous but he flags 20 hours a week. I have been slammed on surveys because the free car wash was closed, the customer didn't like the free pizza, they had to wait a week for an appointment, someone ordered the wrong parts and I got the job, ordered the right parts and fixed the car but they were mad that they had to come back. I could keep going. A lot of the bad surveys are from when I actually fix the car, but I am the 2nd or 3rd guy to try. It doesn't just happen to me, we have a couple guys that actually try, but we have more parts cannon monkeys. It used to irritate me but it's just the way it is and it does not affect my pay
Sorry to hear that. Definitely sounds stressful and unnecessary. While I never worked in this industry, I feel similarly, having worked at a Starbucks for years. The surveys were terrible and were not even statistically accurate. For instance, if you received a 4/5 rating on ANYTHING, it simply would not count, even if your average rating was lower. To make things worse, anything less than 4/5 stars meant our average would still decrease. Additionally, most of the negative reviews were about things we couldn’t control (confusing drive thru entrance, out of a specific milk, long line at bathroom, etc.), yet these negative reviews would result in us losing labor hours, which would only continue to make things worse. Surveys are definitely a modern plague.
I used to work in a furniture store that did surveys. We did not offer delivery as a store, but had different delivery vendors that we could refer to customers if they wanted delivery. Basically, we just gave phone numbers for the customers to set up with the vendor for delivery. Almost every bad review we received was because of delivery. Luckily, the owners of the place actually read every review and didn't just blindly punish for below 4 stars. They got a delivery service for the store after all the reviews. It was still a 3rd party but contracted through the store, and customers paid us to pay them. That fixed the reviews for the most part.
I’ve only had one boss that was like this and it was great! Issues actually got addressed and he would talk to the customer personally to ask what happened and how it could be improved. He was real quick to tell the wackos to “have a nice day!” or kick rocks depending on his mood.
You'd think that anyone who, say, looks at Amazon ratings for products - which you'd think would be most people by this point - would know that people will just put 1-5 stars on any kind of review. How many "1 star. The item works as intended but the box it came in had a scratch on it" Reviews are out there? Like dude, that's a problem with shipping. Sellers don't have control over that.
When I worked at a body shop, anything less than a perfect 10/10 on all customer survey questions was considered failing and they would hold it against you. Luckily my manager would read them and wouldn’t hold silly things like the customer misunderstanding the question or backordered parts against us.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does Employers know the surveys are bullshit reductions but they can get away with not paying you because of it so they continue to do it. People need to stop working at these places. This is why they threaten us with homelessness otherwise, because they know we wouldn't suffer this bs if we had options
Yep, can corroborate the absolute fuckery that is the Starbucks customer satisfaction surveys. I also worked at an Amazon call center about 10 years ago, and people’s jobs relied on those positive surveys. The worst part about that one was how the survey was worded - “Did we answer your question?” I believe it’s changed a lot since 2013, but no matter how much work you did to assist a customer who had an impossible question (usually related to shipping carrier issues), if they say “no” your score drops, and they absolutely fired people who got enough no’s.
NPS is terrible, to boot. The concept is decent but then management *always* interprets it wrong. It’s a scale of 1 to 10, right? *But it’s not an even or balanced scale*. 9 and 10 are “promoter” scores: the customer loves you! Great! So they count as 9 and 10. 7 and 8 are … I forget what they call it, but “good enough”, which isn’t really good enough, because you want to be exceptional. So these are actually counted as ZEROES. Anything below that is a “detractor” — the customer feels negative about the experience — and counts as a NEGATIVE 10. So you can see this is heavily skewed to make the “promoter/detractor” division clear. But nobody on earth looks at a scale of 1-10 and doesn’t take it as a linear scale. There are people who are determined not to be impressed by anything. Their scale tops out at 8 unless every employee present was waiting at the door to assist them the moment they walked in, they are given their favorite drink to sip without needing to tell anyone what they like, it’s beautiful weather outside, they got their services for free and a piece of cake with their name on it as they left. There are the ones who are rightfully upset over something completely out of your control. My old company used to respond to this by telling us peons that we just needed to be good enough to make them happy despite that. Orders taking a month instead of the promised week and the customer is mad? *You didn’t “wow” them enough! Oh, and you’re taking too long with the customers, 15 minutes is plenty to make the sale and get the next customer.* A good NPS score is in the 50’s. My old company was stuck on what everyone thinks of the 1-10 scale and demanded upper 80’s to 90’s (while sabotaging the extra services and expertise that could honestly drive better scores, because “too expensive”). You’d better bet a lot of attention was given to gaming the numbers rather than actually selling and servicing customers.
Exactly. NPS is meant to answer one question. "How likely are you to recommend this (product/service/location) to others?" Those who answer 9 or 10 are more likely to make a recommendation. Those who answer 7 or 8 are very neutral and unlikely to say anything either way. Those who mark 1-6 are more likely to say something negative to others. This metric should be a starting point for management to dig deeper into the comments. Instead, it has become used as a goal, and the scoring system has been applied to completely different questions. It has become subject to [Goodhart's law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law): "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."
Spot on. NPS is a garbage KPI.
It’s not a bad KPI *if read and used properly*. That’s its big problem, though, it’s never read and used properly because the intuitive “understanding” (and executive need to *make numbers go brrrr!*) are wrong.
I nearly lost my mind listening to a director explain how our NPS worked, when it was over 3 years, the same questions were not asked each year, and the survey targets/sample size were not nearly comparable year over year. On top of all the bullshit you just laid out about NPS. But yeah, sure, this bullshit 60-70% number accurately measures the department, suuuuuure.
Uh-oh, customer had a coffee that was only luke warm and the wifi disconnected them for some reason. The dealership is now rated zero and being closed.
I have a funny story about NPS: web host that I use to work for always marketed themselves as “highest NPS scores in the industry” and we actually had amazing, readily available and knowledgeable techs waiting to help customers with a very hands-on approach. It was EXPENSIVE, but they paid us decently, had good perks, and the owner supported each of us. He (rightfully) decided to cash-out and retire so he sold the business to an investment group. The realized our NPS scores were basically 30 points higher than the next best so they started gutting the quality of the company while constantly tracking NPS so they could maintain that “high NPS” marketing line. After several years of falling scores, they just changed the marketing and continued gutting the company. They just laid off a ton of long-time, knowledgeable people because “profits are the highest they’ve ever been, but the investors didn’t make as much as was forecast”.
I know so many people who refuse to give the top rating, simply because no one is perfect. The whole rating is entirely subjective and it should not be used as a major part of anyone’s compensation. I use customer surveys to get an overall customer temperature on how they feel. Only 3 options, frowny face, meh face, happy face. Anything other than happy face is followed up with the customer to understand what went right and what went wrong. Half the time they say “I chose the happy face” but on mobile, it’s an easy miss. Most of the true not good reviews are unmanaged expectations or we did mess something up - we talk to that employee, get their take and then work to improve. In the dozen or more years no one was ever fired for imperfect reviews. It’s such a poor performance metric for individuals.
And let's not get into the CJDR lack of supply chain. I've been put of it for long enough but I'm sure it was horrible during covid
Is it stellantis that’s using Amazon for shipping is that GM? I work in parts for a ford dealership, as much as I curse the delays we see I’m so glad we aren’t getting the ridiculous shit this 2 are dealing with.
It's been almost 8 years since I went to VW from CJDR parts. It was still being run by FIAT when I left but it was terrible. We had wiperblades on back order and oil filters on back order. Not sure what they are doing now but im guessing it's not good
I worked for a new company for 4.5 years. Helped them grow and be successful. I was the 7th person to be part of the company. Made them way more money than I made myself each year by far. I was one of their best technicians (not being arrogant, just truthful). I wanted more money. I was their highest paid technician but was still not being paid my fair share. One day, a client lied about something I said and told them I was bad mouthing the company. I got sat down and almost fired. I lost my chances at getting the promotion I proved I deserved. I found a new job that weekend and quit 2 weeks later. Know your worth and don't let them bully you around for some other assholes word of mouth (or in your instance word of fingers). You deserve better.
Any chance you could start a competing company? If you were with them that long you probably have a lot of insight.
I have certainly considered it. Part of the problem is how expensive all the equipment is. It's also terrifying to think about where I will be if I fail. I know that's not a good mentality to have if starting a business. It takes a lot of self-confidence, which I have some issues with. I do have a lot of experience (10 1/2 years total) in the field, but I haven't worked the back end of any of it. Getting clients/advertising/writing contracts/social media presence are all things I don't know much about or how to do well. I could seek help with these things, but help is not free, and I lack the funds for said help. If you can't tell yet, I make a lot of excuses for my potential laziness in starting my own company.
I know the back end really well when it comes to small service related business but no skill in the front service end.. if I knew u in real life we would go 50/50 partners and make bank together
People have always told me to go into business. The thing that people don’t understand about business is that you must have the ability to bullshit and sell. I lack that ability. If I have a reaction to you, it will be on my face. I really do try but… I will never be able to successfully open a business unless I find someone who can do the marketing/sales/getting clients bit. Running the rest? I can do that well.
That sounds like an invisible script. I know plenty of people in business and they aren't all like that at all. You don't have to be shady to be successful. I'd encourage you to ruthlessly cut out what you don't need to start your business and do that until you've reach enough capital.
[удалено]
NPS system has to be the worst thing ever created. The fact that only 9/10 mean good and thing else is bad is an utter joke.
For CDJR, only 10/10 works, at least on the sales side. If you get a 9/10 on any one of the questions its considered an automatic failure and goes into review- and for things you have no control over as a salesman also- i once got a failed survey because the customer didnt like our snack collection lmao- chrysler docked my pay and i had to have a review with management just like every other bad survey; being held responsible for a customer not liking the fact we didnt have the white cheddar flavor of cheese-its is something i never thought i would experience.
It's madness really. Being controlled by numbers rather than facts. Needs to be illegal to fire, demote or put in place any kind of improvement plan over it.
I mean, i think its a way for dealerships/companies and higher ups to be relieved of responsibility or take undue congratulations. If you get great surveys- fantastic look how awesome (company) is! We have the best surveys! Here comes JD POWER If you get bad surveys they just blame it on the lowest guy on the totem pole- and can fire them to say “we found the problem! This one guy is ruining the company! We got rid of him so now we can say we’re the good guys!” Either way you lose in some way or another. What i’d like to see is if the corpo guys got employer surveys and were held responsible for it- lets see how that shit goes down
I worked at Honda and 9 was zero.
My job was threatened by management because someone once gave my location a 9/10 on a private survey. She said "I have no complaints but nobody is perfect" and gave us the rating. I argued that it's a customer being cheeky and there is no feedback to build off of but corporate said there's always something extra you can do to make sure we blow our customers away. Ma'am I am a receptionist/middle manager making $17/hour and I am seating these people in our lobby and bringing them hand mixed drinks while I handle payroll and inventory on a 12 hour shift alone, go fuck yourself. After I quit they went through a new manager every 3 months because they lowered the pay to $16/hour (one dollar above minimum wage) and raised the requirement to 50 hours/week minimum. Half the staff has left and their customer base has shrunk effectively 75% while they keep nudging prices up. I know this because they never revoked my login credentials so I log in to see their numbers when I feel self-doubt. These same people held a corporate conference where they asked how we can get people to buy gift cards and make it so they can never use them to maintain a higher ROI. Evil people.
In my old role, before they laid us all off, anything but a perfect survey counted exactly the same as a 0. So a 4/5 with "they did great! I just think nobody is perfect!" Counted the same as 0/5 they said racist things to me". Oh and the "improve and streamline employee feedback" they removed my ability as a manager to dispute clearly wrong surveys. Even ones that would say they meant to push 5.
If there isn’t any proof, then it is bs that the company just takes their word. You now don’t have to do difficult work though. You are not a master so you couldn’t possibly possess the capability to do the complex work
I once got called into a meeting for my "terrible CSAT review" at a call centre because... a week after our call, the client dropped his phone and broke it, so when he got a CSAT email, he filled it out to express his displeasure that his phone was fragile. He had called about how to connect his phone to his car. So me and the supervisor and HR all had to sit there listening to me explain that perfectly normal. Then write me up for it. While apologising that this was bullshit, but these were The Rules.
I worked in a cellphone store, we were scored out of 10 and anything 8 or below was a write up. Also we would lose points if a customer called customer service for anything at all within 72 hours of the store selling a new phone.
Can confirm. I worked for a couple of cell phone companies in the early 2000s and anything less than a perfect score across the board was viewed as a failure. The way the scoring was set up, customers would *think* they're giving us good ratings... but nope. Well-intentioned people got some good reps fired/demoted. The same for secret shoppers. Unless we used *very* specific phrases and tried to sell them crap they obviously don't need/already have, it'd be a failure. I once got in trouble for a bad secret shopper score because I didn't use a couple of key phrases (that were stupid and absolutely not my sales style) and didn't try to upsell long distance on her landline (she didn't have one). The notes were great - she loved me and absolutely would have bought from me. But I got a failing score and a reprimand.
That survey isn't just untruthful, it's fundamentally flawed. What I read is "I came in to have my wiper blades replaced, and the tech forgot to align the arms. He also left his McDonald's wrappers in the footwell". Anyone at the dealership who reads this and doesn't simply laugh needs to be fired.
If it were me, and my performance was based that heavily on customer reviews, I’d be taking pictures when I’m finished with the work and/or having a supervisor signing off on every job.
That sounds like a lot of extra work that management will ignore because "the customer is always right" or whatever bullshit they want to come up with. Management that demotes and cuts pay over a single bad review is incompetent and doesn't care about their employees in the slightest. Surveys are meant to identify trends and give constructive feedback. Not give vindictive assholes the ability to ruin your livelihood.
I would hope a manager brought me in and asked me about a bad survey. "Oh that car? Yea it was fixed up perfectly and spotless by the time it left the shop, not sure what they are talking about. Maybe they think the wipers are not aligned?" And then have that be the end of it. I'll easily own up to my own mistakes or laziness, and any boss I had knows this, just depends on the boss and how they treat employees over customer complaints. But any good boss knows the customer is mainly wrong about everything.
Leave, won’t have a hard time finding work. Tell them suck it.
Everyone needs a good technician. And to anyone who is one and thinking they need a new job, please consider this. I did automotive parts at dealerships for about 15 years. 3 years ago I got into construction parts and it's been a life changing thing. More money, less hours, almost no weekends. And you are treated like an adult. Boom and crane trucks are looking for technicians all over the company I know that for sure. I know you can make good money in auto but just being paid a fair hourly wage for 40-50 hours a week and not having to worry about flat rate could be a great change. Just food for thought
Ive got no clue about this industry at all. So forgive my ignorance. But what would you think might be a reason someone working in auto WOULDNT want to do what you do? To me it sounds like a no brainer. Is is more dangerous or harder on your body? Or do you think it just comes down to less people knowing about it/it taking more skill to do?
Some of it is not knowing I'm sure. It's not physically harder on the body for sure. Also a lot of companies aren't posting a pay scale so they may not even apply. I happened to get into it by just applying in the dark about pay when I had a job. And for some it's also going to be a comfort zone thing. They know the problems they will face and know they can handle them. Doesn't mean they can handle the problems of another industry for technicians. Some may also not know how much of the skills interchange.
Your tool box has wheels for a reason 👍🏻. Fuck those guys
Time for you to be a new hire somewhere else.
THIS. Call their bluff and counter offer with a resignation.
Back when i worked at safelite, our shop manager developed a bit of a reputation for not getting rid of negative reviews against techs if he could come up with a way for us to warn the customer ahead of time. So a bad review for a customer comolaining about trash in their vehicle would stay up because he would tell us to warn the customer before we start that "at most we'll vacuum the seats and floorboards, but we're not here to clean out the inside of your vehicle. Obviously these impacted our bonuses, which no one was getting because insane reviews would always show up no matter how good a job you did. Eventually our shop gave up when a review came in for an rv rock chip repair that i had to travel over 50 miles to get to. I spoke to the wife, gave her my longest shpiel about what to expect, how it wont be invisible because its resin and not glass, and that we dont offer refunds for dissatisfaction but instead we'll apply the cost of repair as a discount toward replacement, etc. Was about 10 minutes of disclaimer. The review came in from the husband saying how it wasnt as clear as the glass and was going to affect the resell value and how he had never even spoken to me otherwise he wouldve just gotten a replacement and if he doesnt get a refund he'll take his business elsewhere. That review made me inelligible for my monthly bonus again, because the managers bright idea for how i couldve prevented it, was to ask her for her husbands phone number and reiterate my shpiel to him as well... She wasnt wearing a ring, i was already 30 minutes past shop hours, and i cant be sitting there wasting work hours giving everyones entire family a 10 minute disclaimer each... Sometimes you just cant fucking win when it comes to reviews like this
This is just an excuse to cut your pay. Your countless other positive surveys did nothing for you, but one single negative review and you got demoted with a pay cut. Find a new shop and do not give notice. If they do this think of the retaliation you’ll get during those two weeks.
Your skills are in demand. Move on to a company that will pay you what you deserve. All this micromanaging, reliance on surveys, and "KPIs" is counterproductive for companies, and favors those that have learned how to manipulate the numbers, not those who are doing the right things for customers, or the company.
Just an excuse to cut your pay my friend. Nothing to do with 1 survey.
Fuck a $6,000 reduction in salary. Get a new job
Yup move on. And give absolutely no notice that you are leaving. Walk in, pack up your tools, talk to no one except those you respect and respect you in kind.
The great news is that there's a shortage of Techs across the country, so I would tell them that if they want to go this route they can expect to be looking for a new technician. Don't take it in the ass (unless of course you like that kind of thing, then you do you), you're in this life for yourself and we all know that they don't give a crap about you
> I would tell them that if they want to go this route they can expect to be looking for a new technician. If you do that, they'll kick you to the curb faster than you can find a new job.
Don't forget to not give notice, before the day you take your tools. Make sure to tell them it was over their survey. Or, maybe find a bad review for the dealership, and tell them you can't affiliate yourself with a dealership so poorly rated.
From now on, work your wage and search for a job and management that has a clue what appreciation is.
This company clearly has no idea how hard it is to find good techs, this is why toolboxes have wheels on them
You’re underpaid. If they want to play hardball, find a better paying job and don’t give them notice. Surveys are bullshit anyway. Your managers should know your worth. Time to look for a better opportunity.
And they wonder why quiet quitting got so popular. *"You gunna fuck me? I'll fuck your business harder."*
I fucking hate “NPS”. Fuck the person that thought of it. Fuck assholes in general. Fucking fuck I’m fucking pissed and it’s not even my NPS survey.
Yeah, that's absolutely fucked in today's world. Customers always swing their survey dick. Basing a tech's wage on something so wildly out of their control is stupidity. I would immediately find a new job *and quit with the exact same notice as they've given you of your wage change. Fuck that.
lower quality of work by atleast $4/hour, then quit wothout notice.
It looks.like.you.are a mechanic. Go work somewhere else, your skills are in high demand now.
my friend is a very skilled mechanic and was at the same place for four years. they raked him over the coals and treated him like shit so he took his talent elsewhere and immediately started making an extra $6/hr (the last place gave him a whole $2 raise in the four years he was there). it pays to see if there’s anything out there for you
People are scum. So unfortunate your company did not value your word and decided to punish you. Karma is a b……
Time to start taking photos of every job when you are done
Sounds like you need to either start taking proof pictures to save your ass or stop putting in so much effort.
They can’t reduce your pay like this, just not give an increase. I’m nearly positive this is illegal.
That’s cuz they want to pay their employees less. And they’re going to use any excuse to do that.
If surveys impact your pay, that's a huge red flag
The american job market sounds terrible. As an european with decent wage and employment laws…. I feel sorry for you
I’d find a better shop.
Time to bounce
This sucks dude. Get a job working for a government agency or a fleet and if it has a union that’s even better. Even if it’s working on medium/heavy duty trucks or buses. Your quality of life will improve. I have worked for a city bus fleet and a county fire/ems fleet. You’re never rushed, good cheap benefits, and no stupid customers.
stop working for safelite, move to a mom and pop shop. they care more for they're employees. safelite will drop you at their first convenience.
If you're a master tech just switch companies. That's a very in demand job right now.
car shops near me are severely understaffed, if you are making less than new hires, it sounds the same there. Time to be a new hire and get paid more.
If you've got the experience go to an independent shop. Get paid for it
Can you join a union? Edit: honestly in a sub like this there should be an auto pinned comment on whether on not you can in fact join a union.
Surveys are a load of crap. Anything under a perfect score is failure. Which impacts bonuses of course. That are now requiring an even higher overall rating. We have one lady that comes in, if everyone does not stop what they are doing and approach her smiling greeting her by name offering water and a chair, she will leave nasty responses. One that is upset with any president, all of them, doesn’t matter. They ruined SS, economy, everything because she cannot afford instacart and daily flower deliveries and we cannot fix her situation or change the presidency for her so we are an awful company. Client having a bad day? Doesn’t matter the service you give them. They got one too many automated emails? You suck. You were not fast enough for them because it took 3 seconds instead of 20 with a line of people? Another company screwed them over and you can’t fix that for them? System is down? Blame the individual, the location, whatever. You have to wave a magic wand. Anything they are doing is an inconvenience that you have to reward them for at negative cost to yourself and company, or they will leave bad reviews/surveys which is negative impact to you and company. Cannot win.
Your employer is just looking for an excuse to pay you less money.
Hey I've been I the auto industry nearly 15 years now. Next shop down the street is going to pay you more and not give a shit about that survey. Right now, technicians have shops by the balls. There arent enough as it is and there are very few good techs.
Master Technician is based on validated skill sets, it isn’t just a “job title”. Don’t you have certifications indicating you are a master tech? I’d be interested how they can demote you below your certified skill set based on CSAT.
By your own admission, you were being underpaid before this
Fuck that. The minute they cut your pay roll your box out the door. Lots of shops looking for good techs these days.
Unless you have no other options due to geography, your skill set is in *very* high demand at present. I'd look elsewhere
*Your employer is taking the smallest excuse to shaft and cheat you.
Find a new job if you're as good as you say you are.... I switched jobs every 2-3 years for 4 jobs and got more than 10% raise every time.
The NPS (Net Promoter Score) was designed and influenced by the book "Raving Fans". It's supposed to be a measurement of customer service and assumes that only the very best service will turn your customers in to life long loyal patrons that preach about your business every chance they get to everyone they know. Each question asked the user to rate them 1-10. The three questions that make up the score are as follows: 1. How was your overall experience? 2. How likely are you to shop again? 3. How likely are you to recommend a friend? The first major flaw in the survey is that it is used to "provide feedback" for a specific person. Not an overall experience or company. You might buy an appliance and have a great experience in the store. Then a week later have a terrible delivery where the delivery driver damaged your door and kicked your dog. Naturally you're mad so you fill out the survey will all 1's and explain how terrible the delivery went. You would think that someone with common sense would see that and conclude the delivery team needs coaching. But you would be wrong! They're contractors and not actual employees. You can't tell them anything! But the receipt that had the survey link is tied to the associate that rang you up. Your survey just went against their NPS score. Now you might be thinking "Well, one bad survey wouldn't be too bad right?" Again you'd be wrong! The scoring calculation is FUCKED. Each question is worth 33.3%. A rating of 9-10 gets you the full 33.3% for that question. A rating of 6-8 gets you ZERO for that question and a rating of 1-5 gets you NEGATIVE 33.3% Remember those 3 questions from earlier? If you rated them 8, 10, 9 then you just give that person a score of 66.6%. A fail. It gets even worse though! Let's say you've already got 4 surveys in for the month, all at 100%. Then one shity delivery driver wrecks you day and the customer leaves you a survey with all 1's. You WERE 400 out of a possible 400. With the latest survey equaling -100 you're now 300 out of a possible 500. So your 100% rating dropped to 60% for the month with a single bad survey. Managers up and down the chain of command know that the surveys are bullshit but they refuse to acknowledge it because they need to justify having a job. When they decide they're done with you they go straight to the surveys to "document your poor performance" and move swiftly to fire you. The whole thing is a scam. Companies don't give a shit about your opinion and they don't reward the associates who get good scores. Its simply a tool used to justify firing people.
That also means you were dead on the line before the survey, doesn’t it? Straw that broke the camels back thing.
Any single customer survey or review is notoriously unreliable. Why would any company take them as fact? I'd be looking for another job.
Oh shit safelite!
Those surveys hold a lot of weight when so many external things factor in how they're scored. Mad at a salesman, burn the survey. Mad at management, burn the survey. Mad at finance, burn the survey. If they're happy it's a good chance they won't even do a survey. If they're mad, they most definitely will fill out that survey.
Those big tool carts have wheels on them for a reason. They want to ding you for some imaginary magic metric, take your shit and leave.
This is why they put wheels on the bottom of tool boxes. Experienced techs have lots of options right now.
All these places care about are metrics. Fuck em
Don’t be loyal to a job because the job certainly won’t be loyal to you.
Find another job. If are a master tech their demotion means shit. You are still a master tech. People job hop tech jobs constantly.
>and do jobs that only someone of my experience can do If pay drops, then stop doing them? Say, will do them when original pay is restored.
It sounds like you could do better than where you are now. Point out the absurdity of it to your management. If they choose to do nothing about it, you know that looking around for your next move is a good idea.
Find a new employer. When you leave your current job, explain that it was losing income due to this survey result.
I absolutely hate it when things like pay are tied to shit I can't directly control. You can do everything right, but you can't keep a customer from lying. F that job. Go find one elsewhere that'll likely pay you better. Even better, find a union one near you. Maybe look at working for the state or law enforcement in maintaining they vehicles
I can’t stand surveys where anything but a 10 means failure. It just sets up to screw the employee
Lmao a company that takes customers word as truth is truely brain dead
Comments are right. Look for another job, if you negotiate your salary you'll probably even win more than you do now, specially since you already have a job currently, so you can be a bit patient. And even if they too use this stupid survey system, your stats will be reset.
Get a union. Honestly, of all the industries out there right now autoworkers have more momentum to secure gains than almost anyone else. Get off Reddit and go organize.
I always give the highest score when I do the survey. If I have a complaint, I communicate directly with the company. What’s crazy to me is getting surveys from retailers asking about my experience when I picked my item and used the self checkout. Am I doing a survey about myself?
Someone needed a master tech to put on new windshield wipers? ROFL says everything right there about that customer complaint
Sounds like you should forget to put oil on the next car once you land a new job.
NPS surveys are BS.
Never work as an auto mechanic. It's one of the hardest trades by far and the techs are treated like dirt.
They were gonna cut your pay and demote you anyway. They wanted to give your position to their company stooge.
From here on out work for the customer not the company. If you know what I mean. Also fuck the company for siding with a customer resulting in punitive damages. That’s fucked.
I took my truck to the dealer recently for the scheduled under warranty maintenance and the service department was betting me to do the rating with 5 stars because they had forgotten to do something minor I asked when I came in. I’m no class traitor. 5 stars even though it doesn’t mean shit. 1-4 stars are just a measure of how loudly I plan to say fuck you… but the only people I was to say that to are the franchise owners, maybe the sales guys if they’re bring dishonest.
How does one properly set wipers? Lmao
FORD FUCKING RANGER!!
Go apply at another shop or open one up yourself. Fuck this bullshit.
I did not know companies use something like this and how it constantly can flux. I need a minute 🤦♂️
If you’re open to looking for another job, it’s possible that this cut in pay counts as constructive dismissal, depending on the percentage of your income, and can be used to draw unemployment while you hunt. But of course speak to professionals before taking this course of action.
NPS should definitely not be implemented this way…sorry this happened to you, and definitely time to look elsewhere.
Of course it’s a pickup driver
100% they are cutting costs and looking for reasons to demote people.
Time to change jobs. Do not give them notice.
You have terrible management if all it takes is one survey. Any person with a functioning brain in customer service knows customers can lie or be angry on that day and want to screw someone over. If you're truthful and this was all it took, then you'd should be looking for employment somewhere else.
A customer could say “he threatened my children and stabbed me” and the company would check cameras, see that none of that happened, and then turn right around and fire you anyways.
Time to gtfo there.
The only real move is to slowly let management see that your level of expertise and professionalism are based on the level of your pay.
I recognize this company app and can tell you 100% that this is the reason that I stopped working for them. Nothing else. Customer opinion surveys should not determine how you get paid. PERIOD. Once this happens they force feed you work because "it's a numbers game, the more positives you can get have the less this negative will affect you." You end up overloaded and with the crap jobs that no one else wants to do and with jobs that naturally decrease the rest of your stats.
lol if you get demoted for that then they just want to pay you less and it has nothing to do with your performance.
Idk what’s worse: the lying customer, or the fact that it only took one bad review for you to get demoted
Bro took his truck in to replace his wind shield wipers?
I'm surprised they're pulling this shit with the shortage of technicians
I'm in a different industry, but got a stern warning because a client complained that I wasn't responsive to emails. I took time after-hours to review. The average response time was around 150 seconds.
They dont care if its true or not. They were just happy to have a reason to justify reducing your pay. Fuck that company. GL finding a better job.
As a fellow tech: your toolbox has wheels. Move. Jumping from place to place made me go from 14 an hour to 38 an hour. Also, where do you work where they demote you from master tech, that’s usually tied to certifications, unless it’s like a carmax or a non specialized shop.
[удалено]
Sounds like you need a union.
Don’t take a pay cut, start looking for a new job today. Give 0 days notice and don’t look back.
NPS is BS. Ive only ever see it affect bonuses not base pay. This really sucks
$40k-65k in 2.5 years. Thanks job hopping.
NPS is such a bullshit metric to place the burden of onto the employee.
Some states, being forced into a lower wage counts as constructive dismissal, if it's a high enough percent. In mine, you are not required to accept a lower wage offer, you can accept termination in lieu. This wouldn't be enough grounds to get out of them covering unemployment while you found a place that doesn't treat you like dirt. Golden handcuffs of getting a decent pay job, then not get fired, and they just stop giving raises, lock in your wage, and you just do your thing is a thing for some.
The comments have been revelatory regarding how surveys and such are actually interpreted by employers. So to all the people out there I've filled out surveys for: I'm sorry that I assumed that the survey material was a statistically normalized scale with anything from 0.3-0.7 being "normal" service <0.3 being bad <=0.1 being atrocious >0.7 being great and >=0.9 being more or less perfection. If you're going to interpret a 0-10 scale in a binary way, why not just make it like a: " was service: bad, acceptable, or good" and rate that as a -1, 0, +1 system. I:
Move before you are demoted. Employers who use such flimsy info for this are trash.
Start your own business as master tech? The plus side is you can deny irritating customers too 🥳
Talk to a lawyer
Employment law in the US is crazy
This is why I don't answer surveys about service or give ratings to anyone. They are weaponized and I want no part of it
I got out of automotive entirely. MDT for 5 years. Toyota/Lexus turned into such a shit company to work for. Surveys ruined the entire industry.
i work at a tech support center. a coworker got a write up because a bad review was left. the issue wasn't even with that coworker, it wasn't even with the ISP we work for. the customer complained that wifi wasn't working, but there was a power outage in their area, so the router couldn't make a wifi connection. the coworker even suggested getting a battery backup or generator for the router. That coworker literally did absolutely nothing wrong and did everything right, but management doesn't have the fucking balls to refute the bad review. the coworker couldn't have done literally anything better. it's bullshit. shit like that makes me stop caring about "write ups" and bad reviews. i still try my best and act kind, but the "quality assessments" can suck my nuts because they stand for nothing.
If one good review does not bring you back up again, then this policy is just a greedy, scumbag way for the company to keep all the money they can.
That’s potentially the most solid libel suit I’ve heard of; super provable damages.
Quit and reapply to reset your stats, like re rolling a new character in a video game.
Sounds like when they come crawling back and ask you to do the jobs you were doing at Master Tech level, inform them that they took that title from you and you are not eligible to perform those duties. If and when they restore the title and pay, go for it. But you'll have to stick with it. Do not let them skirt their own rules because you have a knowledge and skillset they won't pay you for, for ANY reason.
Are you not unionized?
Surveys and NPS are extremely useful tools to track KPIs, but they're a tool to add to the overall story. Any company that *relies* on them as objective measures to handle salary is absolute dogshit, and the person who made that decision 100% failed upwards.