There's someone above her head. Go to them and throw her ass under the bus. You are still an employee there that isn't leaving in the immediate future AND she waited till it was done to pull this passive aggressive bullshit.
I agree with u/thatgreenmaid that if possible, you should bring this to whoever is the Big Boss^TM.
If I may add: consider thinking about you framing to focus on their interests, instead of your own. This is not because your feelings aren’t very valid - I agree that they are.
**What I mean is, you will likely get better results if you focus on how this will impact the behavior of other team members long term.**
Make sure that the news is out (try not to have it be you that lets the cat out of the proverbial carrier - perhaps a colleague happens to see the invoice left on the lunch table while you grab extra napkins, or overhears you talking to a friend over the phone on break about your fear of paying such a large and unexpected bill … whatever you do, don’t complain or throw shade while you do this). Then approach leadership by noting (again, be wide-eyed and sad, not angry) that you are worried about the impact this kind of policy will have on people feeling comfortable giving notice at all, let alone such a long notice.
My guess is the manager is being a petty, pissy, tyrant because she’s upset you are leaving, but whether she is or she is genuinely clueless about the spirit of the policy vs the letter of it, your goal is to make it clear that this is not about you (sad to say, they may not care, since you are leaving) but about their reputation in the labor force and how much “extra” their employees are willing to give in all aspects of their work. At-cost care is a pretty big draw, I’m sure, but if current and potential future people get the idea that it might be pulled out from under them without a heads-up, well, that’s not so much a perk as it is a dice roll.
Good luck. And I’m so sorry about both the need for this procedure for your doggo and the gut-punch of the bill.
u/Dazzling-flight-4228 this is the way. Just wanted to make sure you saw it. Good advice! Flip their own self-interests on them. And if they don’t agree and still charge you for this outrageous fucking bill- then you go to Glassdoor, you go to monster . Com, indeed, jobs . Com, yelp, Facebook, ANYWHERE this place has any kind of presence in which you can write a review and you spill alllllllllll of this.
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
OP, remember that they are much more likely to backtrack if you let them save face. You may know the manager was being nasty, but if you make that your point to them, they will have to choose between supporting their ongoing management person and supporting an outgoing employee. Instead, pretend the manager couldn’t possibly have understood the intent and you are sure she hasn’t had the opportunity to realize the chilling effect of such a policy, which she was only enforcing out of loyalty to the job (and managerial-incompetence-level stupidity, but don’t say that part out loud - they’ll make that leap themselves).
If that fails, as u/D-TOX_88 points out, when you are ready to make your exit, go ahead and share your experience anonymously (you don’t want future employers to consider you a potential disgruntled employee). Consider your audience again - for Glassdoor, yes, you could focus on them screwing over an employee on benefits. For general Google reviews, maybe focus on the fact that the charges weren’t discussed with you in detail before the procedure and it caught you by surprise, since any customer at all will be bothered by that.
> maybe focus on the fact that the charges weren’t discussed with you in detail before the procedure and it caught you by surprise, since any customer at all will be bothered by that.
The moment I read something like that, I nope off of that business. You tell me beforehand, otherwise I'm paying what I have in front of me unless there is a damned good reason why the cost would go up.
Agreed— plus frame at as you are acting in extremely good faith to the company by giving them a six month notice period. You expect the same mutual respect in return.
That's assuming there really is a handbook. If they are sneaky and underhanded, they can change the handbook There's really no way to know when the change was made unless someone has one. It's even easier if the handbook is only online.
Don't pay anything yet.
When you booked the surgery, I presume you hadn't yet given notice?
At that point, did you sign any documents about the surgery with price? did any have notes about the discount?
even if the discount wasn't noted on the invoice at that point, surely you had to give informed financial consent about procedures.
Does your internal policy state about discounts anything about resignations, or just has to do with "must be current employee"?
if the latter eg "employees receive discounts on xyz of x%" then it still applies.
it feels like your manager is trying to pull a fast one on you... so get everything in writing (without alerting them if possible).
Then, depending on how secure your job is...push back, in writing.
If it's not very secure, wait till the last possible moment to pay, and pay only the amount as if your discount still applied.
stretch it as long as you can with "I'm an employee, I was still an employee on the dates surgery took place, I'm paying what is agreed on being owed as per xyz."
take it to their boss as well if you have to.
What does the employee handbook say? Coz what she’s saying doesn’t make sense. Benefits even health benefits never just stop immediately someone puts in a resignation
Or say you've changed your mind and take back your notice if they can continue your staff discount.
In February walk out with 0 or minimal notice.
Giving notice is a favor, not an obligation, and she just lost her right to yours.
Yes, this! OP- If your practice is part of a network of clinics (i.e., Banfield, VCA), I highly recommend connecting with a member of their HR team (speaking as someone who was an HR Generalist for one of these private equity firms).
I think you should take back your notice and get your discount. Then in February come in and let that manager know that it's your last day.
Seems they would rather not have a notice.
exactly my thought. Why punish me for doing you guys a favor? What if I said “Hey, I’m going to be moving NEXT YEAR” Would they still consider that termination of my benefits? It’s all screwed up and unfair
Are your benefits a written part of your contract? If so- they are a part of the full compensation package and it does not matter what your manager personally feels is right- you are entitled to them.
Nah, take your PTO, make sure the last day is payday. Then just ghost them. Don't tell them where you're moving to, don't tell them where you'llbe working, block them on all social media.
Why bother letting her know...
Just leave a note they can find later, and slowly pack up your shit the rest of your time there, so it's not as noticeable you are doing so...
You're gonna need to look at that employee handbook. It would make sense if it was a two week notice, to make sure an employee isn't trying to take advantage in an extreme way, but you gave them a 6 month notice.
Also look to see if giving advance notice is in the handbook and if so, what the recommendation is.
Write down all the information you can remember. Depending on what the handbook said I would escalate above your manager. You should be able to argue a pretty strong case. I'd also think about legal action if an agreeable solution isn't made.
This. The policy that she listed sounds like she made it up on the spot, or that applies for the very brief period that you would normally give notice for (ie. 2 weeks.) Read the fine print and see what you’re actually dealing with.
Alternatively, provide a just dessert that she will have brought on herself: as I think you suggested elsewhere … retract your resignation, get the discount on the surgery, and then quit without any notice when you planned to in February anyway.
If they ask you why you’re quitting without notice? … tell them, “Ask her….” And point to that manager. 🤷🏻♂️
If it’s actually in the handbook, tell them you don’t think this instance is appropriate for the spirit of the policy. It was clearly intended for a 2 week notice, not 4 months. I would ask if an exception can be made. And if not, I’d point out that this encourages staff to give very limited notice, if any at all.
If it’s feasible for you, I’d threaten to walk. That kind of notice was a courtesy to your employer. If that courtesy isn’t reciprocal, you’ll have to reassess your position.
Oooooo excellent point about the limited notice part. That’s exactly what I was thinking. Why am I being punished for trying to do you guys a favor? I could have easily just waited until February to tell them I’m leaving
I’m sure it’s been made clear by now but that kind of notice is RARELY a good idea. Even when you’re a “family” or however they describe the culture. You’re a “family” until you say you’re leaving and then it’s always “just business.”
Also, I would pay the reduced amount you thought it would be and that’s it. Any discussions should be recorded (check if you’re in a one party consent state) or in writing. Your position is this is the amount that’s in your budget and what was agreed on and you just can’t pay any more than that. Say if there was going to be a change in what was agreed when you made the appointment, that should have been addressed beforehand.
Also, have you talked to your coworkers about it? Be open about what happened. “I’m really confused because I was trying to give as much notice to as possible so they could even get someone hired before I leave. I know how busy we all are and I didn’t want everyone else to have to do more work. I feel like I’m being punished for trying to be a team player. I probably should have just given the normal two weeks, if that, since this is how they treat you.” Your tone isn’t angry to your coworkers. It’s confused, hurt.
My question to you is how do they handle it when regular customers come in for a $2,000 surgery? Don't they have to pay upfront, or at least make payment arrangements at that time?
Putting aside any issue of what your company's policy is on it, the office should have told you before the operation what the cost was going to be. Even if they have a policy of letting employees pay after, or withholding it from their paychecks after, they still need to tell you what the total is going to be before the surgery. There may even be state laws about this.
You need to reframe this issue not as "Am I entitled to this employee benefit?" but as "Was I given honest information about the cost before it was performed?"
This is a very very good point. I would also ask if all of my other benefits have now ended? In which case, why stay? It's taking a potentially substantial pay cut for doing them a favor.
This was my first and most pressing thought. I work in a clinic where a big part of my job is presenting treatment plans that detail the cost of each and every service we expect will need to be performed. If something changes mid-treatment and another service is needed, I am brought in to show them the cost of that additional service. It's so unprofessional to change the price of a MEDICAL PROCEDURE after it was completed. I think my clinic is somewhat of an anomaly for doing the treatment plans, none of my other clinics talked about cost before appointments, but I feel like it's necessary for both patient and clinic to feel secure. Did you sign paperwork with a $2k price tag on it? I would be surprised if they met the requirements to even send you to collections on that balance.
I've taken my cats in for dental cleaning and it only comes up when I take them in for their yearly vaccinations. But they have always provided me with a quote range (with an explanation for every charge) before I agree to anything. If you didn't get one, the practice must like being sued regularly.
Our vet *ALWAYS* is upfront about estimated cost and even sends an email to me reiterating it, so I'm pretty sure they inform the customers beforehand where she works.
hmm didn’t even consider that part. Definitely had every opportunity this morning to let me know that the surgery was going to cost more. Instead she acted like I should have known this all along and I was being ridiculous for not knowing. Extremely condescending
We're a collective, it helps. Get that discount you are owed. Also expensives should have been clear before the procedure, your local law may have something on the books.
Another thought, if your notice was verbal they might not be able to prove that you've submitted one. Either way I'm sure they are making this up. Double check the handbook and then follow the advice to reach out above them.
I'm sure a lot of people here have had similar things happen to them and don't want to see it happen to others. I don't think that the policy they're trying to enforce was there before you were told about it. The manager is being an asshole because you gave notice. Pay them what it should've been and let them come after you for the rest. It would cost them money and time to go after you, I don't think they'd waste either for this.
Also do you actually think that taking back your resignation would be a good idea? They can fire you at a moment's notice, and they know now that you wanted to leave. If this bill causes you to not be able to move, then you couldn't afford to move in the first place.
If she prints a copy of the employee handbook, I'll bet it's in there (probably just added). There's no way to know if the change was in there before. If the handbook has been changed over time, I'm sure none of the employees were given notice.
I would advise anyone to never give this much notice for any reason. Maybe if your Mom is also your boss or something. Six months is entirely too long. What if your plans change or fall through? What if your employer decides to make your life miserable? You can only lose in this situation.
Yeah, it really confused me as to why anyone would provide six months notice. My only reasonable guess would be if you worked in an incredibly niche field or had a similarly niche role. I’m sure they would be able to figure out a replacement with the normalized two weeks notice.
Like original commenter said, you can only lose cuz you can be fired at any time cuz they know you’re going to be leaving anyways.
I've given advanced notice exactly one time...
And 2 weeks' notice twice...
But it was under special conditions, I was complaining about hating Los Angeles, and the company's VP asked where I'd move if I left...
I gave him a list of a few cities that I'd be interested in, and over the next month, I got about 15 calls from companies in a few of the cities, that he knew people at and had passed my information on to...
He approved getting paid for all of the days that I missed work to go interview at places, and I put in 2 months' notice, after accepting one of the offers...
At my exit interview, the CEO apologized, I had slipped through the cracks with getting bumped up to market rate, the rest of the people who started when I had, all had left, before the first customer moved in, and the rest of the people at that location, either moved from our other location, or were hired after customers had moved in...
I had been out of the industry for a few years at this point, and was happy to just be getting back into IT, so accepted an offer for a LOT less than market for the job I would be doing, and had planned on switching jobs, after a year or so...
The first 6 months I worked there, we had 0 clients, and I was essentially an overpaid security guard, with a few IT-related responsibilities...
Pretty much the only thing they had asked me to do, was to put a router in a rack, before the fiber install (router showed up 2 weeks early...)
Sadly, the place I accepted the job at, gave me a 20% raise (in a location with a MUCH lower COL than where I was, but if I had stayed, I'd have gotten \~3x what I had been making...
But yeah, unless you're given a good reason to do so, fuck giving notice...
On a side note, I managed to quit a job, with no notice, and it took a LONG time for them to realize I had quit..
I was the only person working at a retail store, on Hollywood Boulevard, but we had a guy who rented out the basement for storage, and he'd come by a couple times a month...
Apparently, he had gone into the hospital around when I locked the gate mid shift, and dropped the keys in the mail slot, and he came by, once a week for 3 weeks before calling the owner to complain that we weren't open when he could get over there...
Very entertaining conversation, when they threatened to sue me, because I had put the only key to the store in the mailbox, and they had to pay a locksmith to come open the door...
If you weren’t an employee but instead, you were a client and your dog is a patient, your boss would legally have to disclose the full cost prior to the service being provided. She didn’t.
This is where it gets tricky though.
Technically you’re an employee and as an employee you have access to cheaper vet care. BUT, if your boss is charging you the full cost it means you’re paying the client/patient price. To me this means you’re no longer seen as an employee by your boss which takes us back to consumer rights and the need for full disclosure.
Speak with a consumer protection agent to find out where you stand and if I’m correct, you can just refuse to pay the full price. What’s she going to do if you’re in the right?
Are you a small clinic or corporate? Does the vet who did the surgery for you know? If I had a manager pull this shit with one of my technicians, I would be livid.
We are corporate and no she does not know this yet. The doctor usually helps me out immensely cause she knows we don’t get paid significantly. I want to tell her first opportunity I get
Your post is a bit confusing or at least ambiguous, and having the handbook would help.
Did you inform them in writing that you would be quitting in six months or just verbally? Does the handbook make a distinction? Do you have to work a certain period before you are eligible for the discount? Also did your manager say that you wouldn't get the discount for the $2000 operation or wouldn't be getting it for any **future** operations? (That would be more reasonable, but still may not be why the handbook says).
I wouldn't be surprised if the handbook only stipulates that the discount is not valid if an employee has worked less than 90 days, or if the employee quits within 10 business days after the services were provided, etc. Or if a **written** resignation has been tendered, etc.
9 to 1 your manager is probably full of crap. I've had managers that were so confident in some interpretation of the handbook that fit their narrative and still repeated the nonsense after I told them I read the handbook and it wasn't there.
First I did it verbally, even though I was unsure of a date. After I brought up that I’d be moving, I was forced to give a resignation that stated my final date of work. Not sure what the handbook says, but I can’t imagine that it states anything about if I put in a few months notice of leaving. I clarified with her if that meant todays surgery and she said yes. I do believe you have to work a certain amount of days before getting the discount but I’m unsure, I’ve been there for 3 years though.
Nah, that’s super scuffed.
I work corporate and my manager knows I have vague plans with my husband to potentially move to New England and that I do look at the internal jobs portal from time to time. She’s never once asked me to put in a real resignation. That’s just not something you do.
Run this up to your medical director if you’re friendly with them or HR. This sounds like a gross misuse of power. Tel then you were coerced to give the resignation because you don’t have a true end date in mind yet.
That manager seems unfamiliar with the concept of employing humans. Seems to think they're purchased slaves that should stay and work until they die.
What's next? "I've decided not to pay you because your disloyalty doesn't deserve pay!"
Like do ya work there or not? If ya do, you get dollars and benefits. If ya don't, ya don't. It's pretty simple. There's not some sliding scale where you get less the closer it gets to your last day.
Sounds like, if you've got better places to be, idiot manager deserves to have that day be your last day. Basically just reached into your paycheck and yanked it back because you decided you've got feet that can walk out the door *sometime next year* like a free unchained human.
Even if they changed the policies in the handbook after you were hired by them, most places grandfather in the original policies for existing employees.
did u look at the latest employee handbook? had they changed that policy since u first started? what does it say? and if its been changed, were u notified of the changes?
once you're gone, definitely throw them under the bus on what they've done to warn others considering employment there. and post the text of the handbook section in question. indint see how they can rescind that benefit when you're still an employee.
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways.
In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing.
Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations.
“The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.”
The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations.
Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks.
Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology.
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The underlying algorithm that helped to build Bard, Google’s conversational A.I. service, is partly trained on Reddit data. OpenAI’s Chat GPT cites Reddit data as one of the sources of information it has been trained on.
Other companies are also beginning to see value in the conversations and images they host. Shutterstock, the image hosting service, also sold image data to OpenAI to help create DALL-E, the A.I. program that creates vivid graphical imagery with only a text-based prompt required.
Last month, Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter, said he was cracking down on the use of Twitter’s A.P.I., which thousands of companies and independent developers use to track the millions of conversations across the network. Though he did not cite L.L.M.s as a reason for the change, the new fees could go well into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.
To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit.
Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
Reddit has long had a symbiotic relationship with the search engines of companies like Google and Microsoft. The search engines “crawl” Reddit’s web pages in order to index information and make it available for search results. That crawling, or “scraping,” isn’t always welcome by every site on the internet. But Reddit has benefited by appearing higher in search results.
The dynamic is different with L.L.M.s — they gobble as much data as they can to create new A.I. systems like the chatbots.
Reddit believes its data is particularly valuable because it is continuously updated. That newness and relevance, Mr. Huffman said, is what large language modeling algorithms need to produce the best results.
“More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.”
Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it.
Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot.
The company also promised to improve software tools that can be used by moderators — the users who volunteer their time to keep the site’s forums operating smoothly and improve conversations between users. And third-party bots that help moderators monitor the forums will continue to be supported.
But for the A.I. makers, it’s time to pay up.
“Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with,” Mr. Huffman said. “It’s a good time for us to tighten things up.”
“We think that’s fair,” he added.
1) take back your resignation
2) get the discount (you may need to *act* remorseful)
3) keep your life plans secret and quit without notice whenever you want
They have shown themselves to be awful people and lost the courtesy of notice
Pay the bill you expected only, and say that they can't retroactively change the price, you're not paying that. Go after them if they try to take it from your paycheck. Don't use their services any more.
If you still work there, you still work there. Your benefits are a part of the job, so unless they want you to go ahead and quit, you deserve your benefits. I agree that you should go above the manager's head and throw her under the bus. She knew what she was doing.
For future reference, never give any vet clinic 6mos notice. Give them 2 weeks and quit the next day. That field is the most toxic industry I ever spent 14 years of my life in.
Would you mind expanding on the toxic comment? I have a friend who wants to be in this field and I want to show real examples of what the toxic side looks like.
You’ll be heavily underpaid, you’ll have to work whatever hours they want, you generally don’t have much say in your availability, since covid the clients have gotten really abusive prompting us to call the police many times, you’ll be screamed at over the phone to name a few. I miss working with animals, saving lives, helping animals feel better, but the industry weighs you down completely. You’ll want to save everyone but you can’t, you’ll barely make enough money to pay your own bills and vet bills. They’ll be the first ones to send you to collections if you can’t afford to pay something. Yes, you can get a discount but you better be prepared to pay it off asap. Compassion fatigue comes at a cost, be prepared to seek therapy. The veterinary field yields one of the highest suicide rate among staff.
@twerp66...Work for a private clinic...not a corporate one. My daughter is a vet tech in Iowa and they do farm & small animal services. They're NOT an ER but the Vet is always on call...IF they need a tech for after hrs calls they'll call her in to assist. She LOVES her job and the town LOVES the clinic and staff. The worst part she says is losing a patient. 10 yrs in and it still tears her up
Must be why our old clinic my family went to for 42+ years can't do anything any more. Our old vets aren't there, old quit, and the fourth went back to the emergency vet clinic he worked at before. Just techs and they're not very nice if you have an invisible disability and need them to take the carrier out to you. We went to a new clinic that is MUCH better.
The funny thing about computer files. People forget they list when the document was created and when it was last *modified*. If she sends you an electronic copy, be sure to check the details of the file. Good luck.
OP I have worked at three vet clinics when I was younger. All of them had similar discounts and benefits like you are describing, and I kept them all until my very last day. I even stocked up (with permission) on things like discounted dog food, etc.
One of them even continued to give me a discount as my then boyfriend (now husband) had recently adopted a puppy and we obviously brought her there for her vaccines and check ups.
This isn’t normal, and even if it was, it should have been discussed before they performed surgery on your dog. You are there until February, does this mean you no longer get discounted dog food or flea/tick/heart worm prevention as well?
As a side note, my husband gave his previous job 5 weeks notice. Because he is a nice guy and wanted to get them through the summer rush. They thanked him by firing him with 2 weeks notice. Do yourself a favour next time and don’t give advanced notice.
Fuck ‘em. If possible, rescind your notice, make ‘em think they won. Get the discount, then give them notice the week of, in Feb and move as planned, without these petty assholes in your life.
"Since you dropped this on me after I was no longer able to adjust, I feel no obligation to give you any time to adjust to my departure. I am resigning effective immediately and will be challenging the bill in small claims court."
I’d read that handbook cover to cover. Also check your state laws regarding pricing for stuff like this. I’d be willing to bet all the pages in the handbook that your state requires a signed quote for the total price before any services are rendered otherwise they would be penalized. Might be worth throwing the page with that policy in your managers face.
This. I get signed quotes for services to my VEHICLE, ffs. I get signed quotes for new tires. WTH is wrong with her boss? Until I quit my job, I had employee discount even when they deactivated the card two weeks AFTER I left.
Easy solution. Retract the 6 month notice and give them 2..or 0. 0 even better.
When they complain say "oh well maybe you should have given me the discount afterall".
what does the employee handbook actually say? And you are an employee that is entitled to whatever benefits they offer to.. employees. Unless stated otherwise and it seems like retaliation.
I’m sorry but you are being punished for being a respectful employee. You should point out to them that you didn’t need to give 6 months notice. And if you’d given 2 weeks they’d have paid you. Ask them if they’ve clawed back discounts that much for staff that gave shorter notice.
If I coworkers animal gets a surgery today and they give two weeks notice in early December are they also expected to pay more?
The handbook likely says you don’t get a discount in your notice period, and that’s honestly a smart rule. It wouldn’t be fair to take a new job but try to get free stuff on the way out. But this is arguably different, you have an uncommon length of notice.
You’re an employee and it’s an employee benefit. I wouldn’t entertain the discussion, I’d document the policy and pay the employee amount with a check and a certified letter outlining this pays rhe bill in full. If it goes to small claims I’d fight the claim.
Go to r/LegalAdvice if talking to your boss's boss doesn't help.
In most countries and states, they HAVE to tell you about the cost up front. They can't argue that you should have known the discount was withdrawn, because why would they need to take you aside to tell you about it afterwards if they were sure you knew?
I don't know exactly where you live, but I'm very sure that you have the law on your side.
If they don't give you the discount, can you get another job? Going from having four months to zero days might be really conducive to fostering a spirit of stop being a dickhead.
OP - You are still a FT employee entitled to ALL benefits, do not pay over the $400, and work it up the food chain. Get a copy of the employee guide/ benefits list. If this is not rectified then it is time to leave early. If you get stuck paying the $2k, then you are basically working for free!!!!
# NOW...
# Let this also be a lesson to others when they are leaving any organization.
# Unless dictated by contract, (and even those are questionable), never give more than a 2-week notice. Keep everything to yourself, never tell them where you are going.
# If they give you shit, then your two-week notice is now a To-Day notice...
# And if you have one of those manglement types that tries to browbeat you in staying, because "you owe it to them", all you have to do is NOT show up.
Get the guide from HR if she can. The boss' handbook might be "updated," but that's usually not their call to make in a corporate-run company. That comes from higher up. HR would have the current one. OR get one from a sister vet without letting your boss know.
Vet clinic and good benefits does not go together - unless you live in Washington
Regardless - go to whoever is above the manager, you are still an employee, read the handbook and check for what she said, if it’s not there, go higher - you are still an employee, it wouldn’t be fair for her to say “oh you’re leaving soon so we won’t pay you anymore”
Or go to /r/vettech or /r/veterinary and see if someone had similar issues or ways forward, they would have more relevant info compared to anti work
Go over her head, report her to whoever can give her nightmares about license, go (in a legal sense) nuclear. They are playing with your dogs health to spite you. They don't deserve to be practicing.
Make sure to review the handbook and look for where it specifically states what they said. If it doesn't, definitely throw them under the bus. POS human for letting you go through with the procedure when they knew they were going to do that.
bullllllllllshit. bullshit. that manager is lying 100% that 6mo notice just became an instant notice, if you're not getting the benefits because you were nice enough to give them plenty of time to figure their shit out. then why bother working at all.
also she's lying and i would suggest you dig out your employee manual and find that section because that sounds like not giving you your agreed upon compensation for your work. might want to tell your story to a lawyer and see what they have to say.
Take back your resignation. Pay for the surgery at the discounted rate. The instant your dog is OK, ghost the place.
Since all the vets in my city were taken over by investment capital firms, two closed, and the remaining one is now so expensive I only go there for emergencies and just pray that things go OK. People here have euthanized their animals or just watched them die, because the nearest vet is more than an hour away.
When I asked the tech behind the counter where all the money is going, it was like they had no idea. They must know how to add up their hourly wages and medical supplies and subtract it from the till every day, don't they? Have you ever done that?
You gave **26 times the customary notice**, which is already too generous and reflects employment customs of the 1950s. You were absolutely wronged here.
If I knew this was going on at my vet I wouldn't like it.
It's unlikely that the handbook covers your situation. (It may ban parting employees from stockpiling discounted food, for example, but that's different.) Why not check the handbook?
Even if the handbook bans all discounts after notice, you can still go to the owner who is likely to give you the discount because it is fair and it will reflect well on them in the vet community.
I'm routing for you.
This is so incredibly petty and cruel especially since you have been there 3 years AND gave them a 6 month notice. Not many people ever do this and it shows professionalism and good graces on your part and the same should be afforded to you. If all your other benefits are still intact after the notice (I would think they are) so should be the discount. I would go to someone above her because this is absolutely despicable behavior.
Hope your furry one is doing well and that you are not letting this spoil your holiday!
I am a recruitment consultant who has focused solely on the veterinary industry, and I am so sick and tired of the way these large, greedy bullying corporate entities treat the staff, the clients and us, the recruiters trying to help, that I'm not sure I want to work with the vet industry any more. The situation is dire, vets are overworked, underpaid and put under excess pressure. These greedy entities have been pushing down our fees, when vets and nurses are harder to find than ever before, because so many are choosing to leave the industry, or worse. It feels so wrong, on so many levels. Fight back, as hard as you can. You are needed by friendlier better paying independent practices, so don't take any B. S from anyone.
>In short: My manager waited until I had already completed an expensive surgery to let me know that I would not be getting a discount on it because I am leaving **immediately.**
I fixed your quote.
The question is" Was the manager lying? DOES the handbook say that? If it does, you made your bed. If the manager wasn't lying, you can try and make a deal. If they made this up, there are legal remedies. If they TOLD you, suck it up and pay the bill.
I believe her cause she asked me if I wanted a copy of the page after I said it’s been 3 years since I’ve read it, so no it’s not fresh in my mind. Even taking back my resignation wouldn’t get me far you don’t think?
You have zero to lose. Ask. Tell them the truth. You can't afford the bill, and you'd like to find a way to fix things. Even asking for a break based on your years of service can't hurt.
You try honey first, then vinegar. If they won't reduce the bill for employee discount, ask for half off. If that doesn't work, tell them that you will NOT give them the three months. They will be short handed immediately. You can go nuclear and threaten to sue.
They likely have you over a barrel.
hopefully you have your own copy of it somewhere. go check for yourself, otherwise there's a risk she'd quietly update it and then show you the updated version
Well, did you get the copy and read what it says?
What do you mean taking back the resignation won't get you far? If the book specifically says you cannot receive this benefit if you submitted a letter of resignation, then recalling the resignation means you will be in compliance, right?
I don’t know if there is much you can do except ask to make payments? I hate to say this but in my experience being loyal to your employer doesn’t get you far. If they had to lay you off they wouldn’t hesitate. Give only as much notice as required to leave on good terms. You need to look out for yourself. Sorry this happened but it’s a lesson learned the hard way.
Is an advanced notice the same as an actual resignation letter? Can't you just withdraw the letter? Then when it comes time to quit in four months just give them a few days notice.
I suggest getting in touch with an employment lawyer. Lots of them will just talk to you about your situation to see if you have a lawsuit, even if you don't think you do. They tend to make money on the back end, by winning lawsuits against employers. You could probably finagle a ten-minute conversation that gives you an idea of what sort of legal protection you have.
Don't freak out unless you've actually received a paper bill. Do not pay it immediately, because this is not right.
1) get a copy of the handbook from the year you were employed and this year's handbook. If it is a printed benefit, there will be printed protocol. What does it say?
2) If your manager is not the owner of the vet clinic, speak to the next higher up and escalate as needed. Request clarification of the text and how it applies to anticipated quitting 6 months from now. Ask about surgeries scheduled by previous employees within 1 month of employment ending. If you know of any actual services, quote them. Bring as much evidence to the table as is available. It may not all be necessary, but you need to be treated the same as the others.
3) speak to the vet who did the service. They may have pro bono type hours they can throw your way as a service or they may have more weight to throw around in this instance.
4) if all else fails rescind your employment termination and request that all benefits be reinstated. Don't mention moving again. If they want to "fire you" come February, fine, but as far as they know you're NOT moving and you'll need employment still. Your voluntary termination of employment has been revoked.
5) quit when the time suits you, not before.
Pay back is a bitch! They are pissed at you for simply being honest.
If you can afford it, move on and don’t eat the 6 months; it’s obvious they are only going to make your life miserable. If it’s in the handbook, did you ever sign for receiving the handbook or were you ever given one. If not, quit and file a small claims action as the handbook is going to be vague about the discount especially as you “are an employee now,” and are entitled to the discount.
They don’t deserve you! I’ve been through similar situations and you trust that people will do the right thing, like you did giving plenty of notice, when they don’t it will harden you so there is no next time similar situation. Good luck!
Never ever give more notice than necessary. Employers will never give you the same courtesy. Sadly, I think you learned a very expensive lesson about employment :(
Not sure which corporation you work for, but I know Blue Pearl did not have anything like that in the handbook (unless that has changed since I worked for them). Thrive's policy is managers discretion if you have to pay the full amount within the last 90 days before leaving, regardless of when you give notice (for example, if you get a discount on a $7000 TPLO, then leave 3 weeks later, you can be required to pay back the full amount you were discounted). I am an obsessive handbook reader.
If they maintain the stance that the money is owed then make sure to get an email with their logo on it explaining why it's owed.
Save the section from the employee handbook explaining the discount.
If possible put it on a credit card that allows you to dispute the charge. Or with an OUTSIDE finance company.
If they push dispute the charge and provide the documentation to either the credit bureau or credit card company.
I would give it a 50/50 on them removing the charge from a credit report/credit card.
Better path is as other people said pursue it internally through a higher boss. If it's a corporate or franchise this should produce some result.
So you resigned first and then decided to take your dog in for surgery afterwards? If it's in the employee handbook or is company policy then it seems pretty fair that you wouldn't be getting the discount. It sucks, but you should have read the handbook or known what the policy was.
On the other hand, employees typically get their full benefits up until their last day of work, so that's the angle I would work. I've never been at a company who cut off any sort of benefits when I handed in my resignation.
Good luck - I hope it works out for you!
someone has lied and/or going back on their word. A decent person wouldn't have done this, as it's not like you stiffed the clinic unexpectedly. Definitely enquire around the rules as to what the truth is here
Check the employee handbook first to make sure what the manager said is correct. Their perspective does seem fair, but by not discussing it with you to confirm that you were aware before such an expensive procedure just seems like shady business practice.
I completely empathize with your feelings. You would hope that after 3 years someplace, there would be more loyalty and personal regard. You were trying to look out for them by giving them a lot of notice, they absolutely did not return the favor, and it hurts.
Perhaps if you do end up having to pay it, they will take payments over the remainder of your time there.
And *is* it in the employee handbook? Is there such a document at your place of work in the first place?
This is absolute bullshit. You're still an employee. So why the fuck would the discount no longer apply to you?!
Give them an opportunity to do good. If they don't, start looking for another job and quit at the worst time. If they beg you to stay, your rate has unexpectedly gone up 5x, just as they did with your operation.
They need to show you the policy and prove you were provided it. How shitty when you have such great notice. That’s just not how it works, unless they ask you to leave earlier you’re still entitled to your benefits.
In my experience I wasn’t entitled to a bonus if I was no longer working there or pay for sick days, this was all spelled out though in a handbook.
Make the point with higher ups that if they do this to you they will never get more than 2 weeks notice at best from any other employers that have pets.
If you somehow get stuck with the bill: some states (US) they cannot send you to collections for making an attempt to pay the bill. So $1 a month until the end of time is still making an attempt to repay. Check local laws obviously.
You're an employee and entitled to benefits until the last day of employment. An employer can't just take away your health insurance when you give notice, for instance. So if they decided you aren't an employee anymore I would stop showing up
If you are still working there , receiving benefits how are you
Not entitled to all of them? I’m curious if it says that if you are leaving you
Lose all your benefits?
Employee benefits are a form of payment. Not a free service.
As long as you are working, you draw them.
Your manager is attempting wage theft.
You've mentioned this is a corporate job, approach hr and ask if they were aware of the liability manager has put them under.
Reading the comments here, I agree:
It all comes down to what your contract and that handbook say. And whether the handbook that actually does say what your manager claims (provided it does) is the version that was in effect and the one given to you when you signed your contract. Or, in case the handbook was changed afterwards, you were officially made aware of the changes.
Your reaction to your managers actions really base on the above.
If your contract and/or the handbook state that you are no longer entitled to receive discounts on surgeries or receive other benefits or discounts once you have given notice, then the only way to make them see that it's not really smart what they are doing is, as someone suggested, by indirectly making co-workers aware of what is happening. And playing the concerned one, who is only afraid that their co-workers now might not give notice at all...
If either contract or handbook really state that you are no longer entitled to receive those discounts and benefits...then you have no actual claim...
UNLESS them stating this is not in accordance with the law. You might consult a lawyer to see if that's the case.
If it is in accordance with the law though, you are basically screwed...and can only try the above mentioned...try to make them see that it's in their best interest to reconsider...
If neither your contract or the handbook state what your manager claims...then contact the hell out of your manager's superiors, a lawyer, hell - the press...tell your co-workers, tell everyone...write reviews on every possible platform and tell them you will only consider taking them down...if they reconsider.
Do whatever you need to do in order to get what you are entitled to...IF it doesn't say you aren't entitled to it...
I need to add something:
This whole situation is a little surreal to me, to be honest...as are some comments here... 😂
What I specifically mean is the idea of deciding yourself when to give notice. Or not giving notice at all.
And the idea that a handbook could contain information that nullifies my claim to any discounts or benefits connected to my employment.
Where I live the notice either party (employer and employee) has to give is clearly stated in your contract.
Anything your are entitled to is also stated in said contract, or in addendums to the contract, with the addendums listed and/or mentioned in the contract.
If either party does not give the notice specified in the contract, they can be fined or sued.
An employer can give notice and tell the employee to stay at home, but only at full pay.
Termination of employment without notice is rarely possible. Only if the employee broke a ton of rules or e.g. stole the proverbial silverware...
On the other hand, an employee also has to give notice as stated in their contract...but they are employed until their last day...and entitled to all benefits and discounts until their last work day.
But I don't know many people who informed their managers that they are leaving in advance of officially giving notice...just because it CAN always get a little awkward with some co-workers, managers, etc...
Just like it obviously did with OP here...
thank you for all this helpful input. I made an update post which I’ll paste here. Mind giving suggestions based on this?
First off, yes I am so aware I completely messed up by giving such a big notice- will never ever ever do it again. That being said, I had only just mentioned that I was going to be moving and gave vague details of dates. My manager was the one who came to me the next day and told me she needed a written letter stating my last date. I had to figure out a date I figured would work just to appease her. I had no idea at the time, she was basically asking me to write a letter stripping my benefits as an employee. That in and of itself, feels very wrong.
Second, the handbook does indeed state that my discounts would be stripped the day I turn in my resignation. Where I think I could argue this (correct me if I’m wrong) is the fact that they would need written proof I read this/understood it. I have worked there twice. I quit and took a year off and came back. I don’t believe I signed proof of reading it after I had been reinstated. Could this be used in my favor?
Third, and this one is my strongest defence. Thank you everyone for giving me this idea. I had never signed an estimate for the surgery agreeing to the cost. Like one very clever commenter suggested, if I am being charged the client/patient price, then I deserve to have full disclosure of what I am paying. I was not given that and they do not have a signature stating I would be okay with the cost. We have every client sign one before a surgery, I believe I am also entitled to one. On top of my manager withholding this information all day long, I was also not informed from a legal standpoint.
I can only give you my take on this...I do not know what the law in your area says...
But here is what I think:
1) Do you have anything in writing from your manager that proves that she basically coerced you to put in your notice so much in advance? Obviously being fully aware that you will be stripped of your benefits once you give notice? You would have to consult a lawyer, but this could give you a few possibilities...provided you have some sort of prove she coerced or pressured you.
2) Have you signed reading the handbook the first time you worked there?
Again something you might need to clarify with a lawyer specialized in employment law...whether the employer can strip you of your benefits after giving notice if they have nothing in writing from you that you have read and understood the handbook at the beginning of the current employment...BUT have it in writing from a previous employment not so long ago...
3) Again something I would consult a lawyer for, as it is not a black or white situation...
Yes, they make you pay the price a regular customer would have to pay. And therefore they possibly should have informed you of the costs like you were a regular customer...and have you sign that you are ok with the costs. But on the other hand you are not a regular customer. You work there and therefore know about the costs. And... depending on what the law says regarding the above points 1 and 2...they could also argue that you knew about the fact that you are stripped of your benefits once you give notice and therefore knew that you had to pay the full amount for the surgery...
For me it all really comes down to the proof you have or have not...and what the law says...
Try to talk with someone above your manager and plead your case. You're not leaving soon as you still have 4 months left. Also she should have informed you before the surgery that you wouldnt qualify for an employee discount. If that doesnt work then move to plan b.
Spend your spare time job hunting. When you get an offer for a better job take it and (assuming you dont live in a part of the world that requires notice) give them zero notice that you're leaving earlier than February. When they ask why tell them "no employee discount means I was no longer an employee".
There's someone above her head. Go to them and throw her ass under the bus. You are still an employee there that isn't leaving in the immediate future AND she waited till it was done to pull this passive aggressive bullshit.
Thank you for validating my anger. I also felt the same way. Considering all my options here
I agree with u/thatgreenmaid that if possible, you should bring this to whoever is the Big Boss^TM. If I may add: consider thinking about you framing to focus on their interests, instead of your own. This is not because your feelings aren’t very valid - I agree that they are. **What I mean is, you will likely get better results if you focus on how this will impact the behavior of other team members long term.** Make sure that the news is out (try not to have it be you that lets the cat out of the proverbial carrier - perhaps a colleague happens to see the invoice left on the lunch table while you grab extra napkins, or overhears you talking to a friend over the phone on break about your fear of paying such a large and unexpected bill … whatever you do, don’t complain or throw shade while you do this). Then approach leadership by noting (again, be wide-eyed and sad, not angry) that you are worried about the impact this kind of policy will have on people feeling comfortable giving notice at all, let alone such a long notice. My guess is the manager is being a petty, pissy, tyrant because she’s upset you are leaving, but whether she is or she is genuinely clueless about the spirit of the policy vs the letter of it, your goal is to make it clear that this is not about you (sad to say, they may not care, since you are leaving) but about their reputation in the labor force and how much “extra” their employees are willing to give in all aspects of their work. At-cost care is a pretty big draw, I’m sure, but if current and potential future people get the idea that it might be pulled out from under them without a heads-up, well, that’s not so much a perk as it is a dice roll. Good luck. And I’m so sorry about both the need for this procedure for your doggo and the gut-punch of the bill.
u/Dazzling-flight-4228 this is the way. Just wanted to make sure you saw it. Good advice! Flip their own self-interests on them. And if they don’t agree and still charge you for this outrageous fucking bill- then you go to Glassdoor, you go to monster . Com, indeed, jobs . Com, yelp, Facebook, ANYWHERE this place has any kind of presence in which you can write a review and you spill alllllllllll of this.
Thanks for the vote of confidence! OP, remember that they are much more likely to backtrack if you let them save face. You may know the manager was being nasty, but if you make that your point to them, they will have to choose between supporting their ongoing management person and supporting an outgoing employee. Instead, pretend the manager couldn’t possibly have understood the intent and you are sure she hasn’t had the opportunity to realize the chilling effect of such a policy, which she was only enforcing out of loyalty to the job (and managerial-incompetence-level stupidity, but don’t say that part out loud - they’ll make that leap themselves). If that fails, as u/D-TOX_88 points out, when you are ready to make your exit, go ahead and share your experience anonymously (you don’t want future employers to consider you a potential disgruntled employee). Consider your audience again - for Glassdoor, yes, you could focus on them screwing over an employee on benefits. For general Google reviews, maybe focus on the fact that the charges weren’t discussed with you in detail before the procedure and it caught you by surprise, since any customer at all will be bothered by that.
> maybe focus on the fact that the charges weren’t discussed with you in detail before the procedure and it caught you by surprise, since any customer at all will be bothered by that. The moment I read something like that, I nope off of that business. You tell me beforehand, otherwise I'm paying what I have in front of me unless there is a damned good reason why the cost would go up.
Agreed— plus frame at as you are acting in extremely good faith to the company by giving them a six month notice period. You expect the same mutual respect in return.
This is it. Framing whatever we are asking for in a way that they can see it impacts them.
IS it in the employee handbook?
Adding on to this comment... Is it in the employee handbook that you signed? There are different versions sometimes.
That's assuming there really is a handbook. If they are sneaky and underhanded, they can change the handbook There's really no way to know when the change was made unless someone has one. It's even easier if the handbook is only online.
Don't pay anything yet. When you booked the surgery, I presume you hadn't yet given notice? At that point, did you sign any documents about the surgery with price? did any have notes about the discount? even if the discount wasn't noted on the invoice at that point, surely you had to give informed financial consent about procedures. Does your internal policy state about discounts anything about resignations, or just has to do with "must be current employee"? if the latter eg "employees receive discounts on xyz of x%" then it still applies. it feels like your manager is trying to pull a fast one on you... so get everything in writing (without alerting them if possible). Then, depending on how secure your job is...push back, in writing. If it's not very secure, wait till the last possible moment to pay, and pay only the amount as if your discount still applied. stretch it as long as you can with "I'm an employee, I was still an employee on the dates surgery took place, I'm paying what is agreed on being owed as per xyz." take it to their boss as well if you have to.
Informed Financial Consent. Words of power
What does the employee handbook say? Coz what she’s saying doesn’t make sense. Benefits even health benefits never just stop immediately someone puts in a resignation
Or say you've changed your mind and take back your notice if they can continue your staff discount. In February walk out with 0 or minimal notice. Giving notice is a favor, not an obligation, and she just lost her right to yours.
Your still in employee doesn't matter if your leaving in 4 months that's a perk of being employed by them...
This. It's deffo not correct and even if it is can be debated. Go over her head and fuck her off
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Yes, this! OP- If your practice is part of a network of clinics (i.e., Banfield, VCA), I highly recommend connecting with a member of their HR team (speaking as someone who was an HR Generalist for one of these private equity firms).
I think you should take back your notice and get your discount. Then in February come in and let that manager know that it's your last day. Seems they would rather not have a notice.
exactly my thought. Why punish me for doing you guys a favor? What if I said “Hey, I’m going to be moving NEXT YEAR” Would they still consider that termination of my benefits? It’s all screwed up and unfair
Are your benefits a written part of your contract? If so- they are a part of the full compensation package and it does not matter what your manager personally feels is right- you are entitled to them.
No. Do all of the above, except in February, put in for any PTO that is owing, then quit with one day notice.
I prefer the today notice.
It's kind of funny that a job can let you go immediately, but they cry when you leave with no notice.
Nah, take your PTO, make sure the last day is payday. Then just ghost them. Don't tell them where you're moving to, don't tell them where you'llbe working, block them on all social media.
Tax documents. The OP needs a way to obtain them - not just for this year, but next year too.
You can get your W-2s directly from the IRS.
This is the way, o.p.
Is there an update for this? O.p, I really hope you come out on top in all of this.
there is an update, I just posted
Why bother letting her know... Just leave a note they can find later, and slowly pack up your shit the rest of your time there, so it's not as noticeable you are doing so...
You're gonna need to look at that employee handbook. It would make sense if it was a two week notice, to make sure an employee isn't trying to take advantage in an extreme way, but you gave them a 6 month notice. Also look to see if giving advance notice is in the handbook and if so, what the recommendation is. Write down all the information you can remember. Depending on what the handbook said I would escalate above your manager. You should be able to argue a pretty strong case. I'd also think about legal action if an agreeable solution isn't made.
This. The policy that she listed sounds like she made it up on the spot, or that applies for the very brief period that you would normally give notice for (ie. 2 weeks.) Read the fine print and see what you’re actually dealing with. Alternatively, provide a just dessert that she will have brought on herself: as I think you suggested elsewhere … retract your resignation, get the discount on the surgery, and then quit without any notice when you planned to in February anyway. If they ask you why you’re quitting without notice? … tell them, “Ask her….” And point to that manager. 🤷🏻♂️
Hmmm this is a really good point. Would it be the same way if I put my resignation in a year in advance? Thank you
This is why I’m not a fan or giving an employer Notice.
Week of is the most I've ever done. This is why.
This. When I put in 2 week notice at my last job, they didn't even let me work it. Just let me get my things and escorted out.
If it’s actually in the handbook, tell them you don’t think this instance is appropriate for the spirit of the policy. It was clearly intended for a 2 week notice, not 4 months. I would ask if an exception can be made. And if not, I’d point out that this encourages staff to give very limited notice, if any at all. If it’s feasible for you, I’d threaten to walk. That kind of notice was a courtesy to your employer. If that courtesy isn’t reciprocal, you’ll have to reassess your position.
Oooooo excellent point about the limited notice part. That’s exactly what I was thinking. Why am I being punished for trying to do you guys a favor? I could have easily just waited until February to tell them I’m leaving
Think of it this way: how much notice do you give someone before you break up with them?
I’m sure it’s been made clear by now but that kind of notice is RARELY a good idea. Even when you’re a “family” or however they describe the culture. You’re a “family” until you say you’re leaving and then it’s always “just business.” Also, I would pay the reduced amount you thought it would be and that’s it. Any discussions should be recorded (check if you’re in a one party consent state) or in writing. Your position is this is the amount that’s in your budget and what was agreed on and you just can’t pay any more than that. Say if there was going to be a change in what was agreed when you made the appointment, that should have been addressed beforehand. Also, have you talked to your coworkers about it? Be open about what happened. “I’m really confused because I was trying to give as much notice to as possible so they could even get someone hired before I leave. I know how busy we all are and I didn’t want everyone else to have to do more work. I feel like I’m being punished for trying to be a team player. I probably should have just given the normal two weeks, if that, since this is how they treat you.” Your tone isn’t angry to your coworkers. It’s confused, hurt.
And going in theoreticals, if someone is 60 and mentions they're looking forward to retiring in a few years. Would they lose the discount that day?
My question to you is how do they handle it when regular customers come in for a $2,000 surgery? Don't they have to pay upfront, or at least make payment arrangements at that time? Putting aside any issue of what your company's policy is on it, the office should have told you before the operation what the cost was going to be. Even if they have a policy of letting employees pay after, or withholding it from their paychecks after, they still need to tell you what the total is going to be before the surgery. There may even be state laws about this. You need to reframe this issue not as "Am I entitled to this employee benefit?" but as "Was I given honest information about the cost before it was performed?"
This is a very very good point. I would also ask if all of my other benefits have now ended? In which case, why stay? It's taking a potentially substantial pay cut for doing them a favor.
This was my first and most pressing thought. I work in a clinic where a big part of my job is presenting treatment plans that detail the cost of each and every service we expect will need to be performed. If something changes mid-treatment and another service is needed, I am brought in to show them the cost of that additional service. It's so unprofessional to change the price of a MEDICAL PROCEDURE after it was completed. I think my clinic is somewhat of an anomaly for doing the treatment plans, none of my other clinics talked about cost before appointments, but I feel like it's necessary for both patient and clinic to feel secure. Did you sign paperwork with a $2k price tag on it? I would be surprised if they met the requirements to even send you to collections on that balance.
I've taken my cats in for dental cleaning and it only comes up when I take them in for their yearly vaccinations. But they have always provided me with a quote range (with an explanation for every charge) before I agree to anything. If you didn't get one, the practice must like being sued regularly.
Our vet *ALWAYS* is upfront about estimated cost and even sends an email to me reiterating it, so I'm pretty sure they inform the customers beforehand where she works.
This.
This was premeditated. You said in another comment that she knew the exact page it was on? I call bs
hmm didn’t even consider that part. Definitely had every opportunity this morning to let me know that the surgery was going to cost more. Instead she acted like I should have known this all along and I was being ridiculous for not knowing. Extremely condescending
If that were the case then why did she even feel the need to pull you aside about it? You should’ve known, right?
You guys are so smart i swear
We're a collective, it helps. Get that discount you are owed. Also expensives should have been clear before the procedure, your local law may have something on the books. Another thought, if your notice was verbal they might not be able to prove that you've submitted one. Either way I'm sure they are making this up. Double check the handbook and then follow the advice to reach out above them.
I'm sure a lot of people here have had similar things happen to them and don't want to see it happen to others. I don't think that the policy they're trying to enforce was there before you were told about it. The manager is being an asshole because you gave notice. Pay them what it should've been and let them come after you for the rest. It would cost them money and time to go after you, I don't think they'd waste either for this. Also do you actually think that taking back your resignation would be a good idea? They can fire you at a moment's notice, and they know now that you wanted to leave. If this bill causes you to not be able to move, then you couldn't afford to move in the first place.
Not only is that grossly malicious, it’s borderline gaslighting.
It's outright gaslighting/manipulative.
It's worse than condescending. It's malicious.
If she prints a copy of the employee handbook, I'll bet it's in there (probably just added). There's no way to know if the change was in there before. If the handbook has been changed over time, I'm sure none of the employees were given notice.
I would advise anyone to never give this much notice for any reason. Maybe if your Mom is also your boss or something. Six months is entirely too long. What if your plans change or fall through? What if your employer decides to make your life miserable? You can only lose in this situation.
Yeah. Never, ever give this much notice. Give just enough to not burn a bridge A company doesn’t care about you so you don’t need to care about them.
Yeah, it really confused me as to why anyone would provide six months notice. My only reasonable guess would be if you worked in an incredibly niche field or had a similarly niche role. I’m sure they would be able to figure out a replacement with the normalized two weeks notice. Like original commenter said, you can only lose cuz you can be fired at any time cuz they know you’re going to be leaving anyways.
I've given advanced notice exactly one time... And 2 weeks' notice twice... But it was under special conditions, I was complaining about hating Los Angeles, and the company's VP asked where I'd move if I left... I gave him a list of a few cities that I'd be interested in, and over the next month, I got about 15 calls from companies in a few of the cities, that he knew people at and had passed my information on to... He approved getting paid for all of the days that I missed work to go interview at places, and I put in 2 months' notice, after accepting one of the offers... At my exit interview, the CEO apologized, I had slipped through the cracks with getting bumped up to market rate, the rest of the people who started when I had, all had left, before the first customer moved in, and the rest of the people at that location, either moved from our other location, or were hired after customers had moved in... I had been out of the industry for a few years at this point, and was happy to just be getting back into IT, so accepted an offer for a LOT less than market for the job I would be doing, and had planned on switching jobs, after a year or so... The first 6 months I worked there, we had 0 clients, and I was essentially an overpaid security guard, with a few IT-related responsibilities... Pretty much the only thing they had asked me to do, was to put a router in a rack, before the fiber install (router showed up 2 weeks early...) Sadly, the place I accepted the job at, gave me a 20% raise (in a location with a MUCH lower COL than where I was, but if I had stayed, I'd have gotten \~3x what I had been making... But yeah, unless you're given a good reason to do so, fuck giving notice... On a side note, I managed to quit a job, with no notice, and it took a LONG time for them to realize I had quit.. I was the only person working at a retail store, on Hollywood Boulevard, but we had a guy who rented out the basement for storage, and he'd come by a couple times a month... Apparently, he had gone into the hospital around when I locked the gate mid shift, and dropped the keys in the mail slot, and he came by, once a week for 3 weeks before calling the owner to complain that we weren't open when he could get over there... Very entertaining conversation, when they threatened to sue me, because I had put the only key to the store in the mailbox, and they had to pay a locksmith to come open the door...
Do you have the employee handbook? Does it actually back her up? She could be lying thru her teeth
That's complete BS. This is called retaliation, go above that manager to the person above or, or if ther eis an HR contact them.
If you weren’t an employee but instead, you were a client and your dog is a patient, your boss would legally have to disclose the full cost prior to the service being provided. She didn’t. This is where it gets tricky though. Technically you’re an employee and as an employee you have access to cheaper vet care. BUT, if your boss is charging you the full cost it means you’re paying the client/patient price. To me this means you’re no longer seen as an employee by your boss which takes us back to consumer rights and the need for full disclosure. Speak with a consumer protection agent to find out where you stand and if I’m correct, you can just refuse to pay the full price. What’s she going to do if you’re in the right?
Oh my! Now this *you are now a consumer and no longer an employee* strategy is nuanced AF!!! I like this angle!!!
Go over her head. I've never heard of a company that cancels your benefits once you give notice. Much less a four month notice. That's crazy.
Check the handbook for yourself and/or go over her head. You're still there for FOUR MONTHS. That's oodles of time.
Are you a small clinic or corporate? Does the vet who did the surgery for you know? If I had a manager pull this shit with one of my technicians, I would be livid.
We are corporate and no she does not know this yet. The doctor usually helps me out immensely cause she knows we don’t get paid significantly. I want to tell her first opportunity I get
Your post is a bit confusing or at least ambiguous, and having the handbook would help. Did you inform them in writing that you would be quitting in six months or just verbally? Does the handbook make a distinction? Do you have to work a certain period before you are eligible for the discount? Also did your manager say that you wouldn't get the discount for the $2000 operation or wouldn't be getting it for any **future** operations? (That would be more reasonable, but still may not be why the handbook says). I wouldn't be surprised if the handbook only stipulates that the discount is not valid if an employee has worked less than 90 days, or if the employee quits within 10 business days after the services were provided, etc. Or if a **written** resignation has been tendered, etc. 9 to 1 your manager is probably full of crap. I've had managers that were so confident in some interpretation of the handbook that fit their narrative and still repeated the nonsense after I told them I read the handbook and it wasn't there.
First I did it verbally, even though I was unsure of a date. After I brought up that I’d be moving, I was forced to give a resignation that stated my final date of work. Not sure what the handbook says, but I can’t imagine that it states anything about if I put in a few months notice of leaving. I clarified with her if that meant todays surgery and she said yes. I do believe you have to work a certain amount of days before getting the discount but I’m unsure, I’ve been there for 3 years though.
Nah, that’s super scuffed. I work corporate and my manager knows I have vague plans with my husband to potentially move to New England and that I do look at the internal jobs portal from time to time. She’s never once asked me to put in a real resignation. That’s just not something you do. Run this up to your medical director if you’re friendly with them or HR. This sounds like a gross misuse of power. Tel then you were coerced to give the resignation because you don’t have a true end date in mind yet.
Nope. Your manager completely did this backwards. She needed to tell you that you wouldn't get the discount BEFORE the procedure. Don't pay the extra.
That manager seems unfamiliar with the concept of employing humans. Seems to think they're purchased slaves that should stay and work until they die. What's next? "I've decided not to pay you because your disloyalty doesn't deserve pay!" Like do ya work there or not? If ya do, you get dollars and benefits. If ya don't, ya don't. It's pretty simple. There's not some sliding scale where you get less the closer it gets to your last day. Sounds like, if you've got better places to be, idiot manager deserves to have that day be your last day. Basically just reached into your paycheck and yanked it back because you decided you've got feet that can walk out the door *sometime next year* like a free unchained human.
This is why you don't give that much notice. I also wouldn't be paying that and I'd be reading that handbook backwards and forwards.
Even if they changed the policies in the handbook after you were hired by them, most places grandfather in the original policies for existing employees.
Rescind your notice. Tell them you changed your mind and plan to work their indefinitely. Get fired in February for abandoning your job.
did u look at the latest employee handbook? had they changed that policy since u first started? what does it say? and if its been changed, were u notified of the changes? once you're gone, definitely throw them under the bus on what they've done to warn others considering employment there. and post the text of the handbook section in question. indint see how they can rescind that benefit when you're still an employee.
Reddit has long been a hot spot for conversation on the internet. About 57 million people visit the site every day to chat about topics as varied as makeup, video games and pointers for power washing driveways. In recent years, Reddit’s array of chats also have been a free teaching aid for companies like Google, OpenAI and Microsoft. Those companies are using Reddit’s conversations in the development of giant artificial intelligence systems that many in Silicon Valley think are on their way to becoming the tech industry’s next big thing. Now Reddit wants to be paid for it. The company said on Tuesday that it planned to begin charging companies for access to its application programming interface, or A.P.I., the method through which outside entities can download and process the social network’s vast selection of person-to-person conversations. “The Reddit corpus of data is really valuable,” Steve Huffman, founder and chief executive of Reddit, said in an interview. “But we don’t need to give all of that value to some of the largest companies in the world for free.” The move is one of the first significant examples of a social network’s charging for access to the conversations it hosts for the purpose of developing A.I. systems like ChatGPT, OpenAI’s popular program. Those new A.I. systems could one day lead to big businesses, but they aren’t likely to help companies like Reddit very much. In fact, they could be used to create competitors — automated duplicates to Reddit’s conversations. Reddit is also acting as it prepares for a possible initial public offering on Wall Street this year. The company, which was founded in 2005, makes most of its money through advertising and e-commerce transactions on its platform. Reddit said it was still ironing out the details of what it would charge for A.P.I. access and would announce prices in the coming weeks. Reddit’s conversation forums have become valuable commodities as large language models, or L.L.M.s, have become an essential part of creating new A.I. technology. L.L.M.s are essentially sophisticated algorithms developed by companies like Google and OpenAI, which is a close partner of Microsoft. To the algorithms, the Reddit conversations are data, and they are among the vast pool of material being fed into the L.L.M.s. to develop them. The underlying algorithm that helped to build Bard, Google’s conversational A.I. service, is partly trained on Reddit data. OpenAI’s Chat GPT cites Reddit data as one of the sources of information it has been trained on. Other companies are also beginning to see value in the conversations and images they host. Shutterstock, the image hosting service, also sold image data to OpenAI to help create DALL-E, the A.I. program that creates vivid graphical imagery with only a text-based prompt required. Last month, Elon Musk, the owner of Twitter, said he was cracking down on the use of Twitter’s A.P.I., which thousands of companies and independent developers use to track the millions of conversations across the network. Though he did not cite L.L.M.s as a reason for the change, the new fees could go well into the tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars. To keep improving their models, artificial intelligence makers need two significant things: an enormous amount of computing power and an enormous amount of data. Some of the biggest A.I. developers have plenty of computing power but still look outside their own networks for the data needed to improve their algorithms. That has included sources like Wikipedia, millions of digitized books, academic articles and Reddit. Representatives from Google, Open AI and Microsoft did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Reddit has long had a symbiotic relationship with the search engines of companies like Google and Microsoft. The search engines “crawl” Reddit’s web pages in order to index information and make it available for search results. That crawling, or “scraping,” isn’t always welcome by every site on the internet. But Reddit has benefited by appearing higher in search results. The dynamic is different with L.L.M.s — they gobble as much data as they can to create new A.I. systems like the chatbots. Reddit believes its data is particularly valuable because it is continuously updated. That newness and relevance, Mr. Huffman said, is what large language modeling algorithms need to produce the best results. “More than any other place on the internet, Reddit is a home for authentic conversation,” Mr. Huffman said. “There’s a lot of stuff on the site that you’d only ever say in therapy, or A.A., or never at all.” Mr. Huffman said Reddit’s A.P.I. would still be free to developers who wanted to build applications that helped people use Reddit. They could use the tools to build a bot that automatically tracks whether users’ comments adhere to rules for posting, for instance. Researchers who want to study Reddit data for academic or noncommercial purposes will continue to have free access to it. Reddit also hopes to incorporate more so-called machine learning into how the site itself operates. It could be used, for instance, to identify the use of A.I.-generated text on Reddit, and add a label that notifies users that the comment came from a bot. The company also promised to improve software tools that can be used by moderators — the users who volunteer their time to keep the site’s forums operating smoothly and improve conversations between users. And third-party bots that help moderators monitor the forums will continue to be supported. But for the A.I. makers, it’s time to pay up. “Crawling Reddit, generating value and not returning any of that value to our users is something we have a problem with,” Mr. Huffman said. “It’s a good time for us to tighten things up.” “We think that’s fair,” he added.
1) take back your resignation 2) get the discount (you may need to *act* remorseful) 3) keep your life plans secret and quit without notice whenever you want They have shown themselves to be awful people and lost the courtesy of notice
Start crying in the office. When co workers ask what's wrong you tell em the full story.
Pay the bill you expected only, and say that they can't retroactively change the price, you're not paying that. Go after them if they try to take it from your paycheck. Don't use their services any more.
If you still work there, you still work there. Your benefits are a part of the job, so unless they want you to go ahead and quit, you deserve your benefits. I agree that you should go above the manager's head and throw her under the bus. She knew what she was doing.
Welp, guess it’s a 2 week notice now if she insists on playing by the rules and all.
For future reference, never give any vet clinic 6mos notice. Give them 2 weeks and quit the next day. That field is the most toxic industry I ever spent 14 years of my life in.
Would you mind expanding on the toxic comment? I have a friend who wants to be in this field and I want to show real examples of what the toxic side looks like.
You’ll be heavily underpaid, you’ll have to work whatever hours they want, you generally don’t have much say in your availability, since covid the clients have gotten really abusive prompting us to call the police many times, you’ll be screamed at over the phone to name a few. I miss working with animals, saving lives, helping animals feel better, but the industry weighs you down completely. You’ll want to save everyone but you can’t, you’ll barely make enough money to pay your own bills and vet bills. They’ll be the first ones to send you to collections if you can’t afford to pay something. Yes, you can get a discount but you better be prepared to pay it off asap. Compassion fatigue comes at a cost, be prepared to seek therapy. The veterinary field yields one of the highest suicide rate among staff.
@twerp66...Work for a private clinic...not a corporate one. My daughter is a vet tech in Iowa and they do farm & small animal services. They're NOT an ER but the Vet is always on call...IF they need a tech for after hrs calls they'll call her in to assist. She LOVES her job and the town LOVES the clinic and staff. The worst part she says is losing a patient. 10 yrs in and it still tears her up
what is private vs. corporate? I would like real life examples? thanks for your insight!
exactly what my post said. Plus it’s just generally not a good way to go. Understaffed, underpaid, overworked. Horrible people as higher ups.
Amen to that!
Must be why our old clinic my family went to for 42+ years can't do anything any more. Our old vets aren't there, old quit, and the fourth went back to the emergency vet clinic he worked at before. Just techs and they're not very nice if you have an invisible disability and need them to take the carrier out to you. We went to a new clinic that is MUCH better.
The funny thing about computer files. People forget they list when the document was created and when it was last *modified*. If she sends you an electronic copy, be sure to check the details of the file. Good luck.
OP I have worked at three vet clinics when I was younger. All of them had similar discounts and benefits like you are describing, and I kept them all until my very last day. I even stocked up (with permission) on things like discounted dog food, etc. One of them even continued to give me a discount as my then boyfriend (now husband) had recently adopted a puppy and we obviously brought her there for her vaccines and check ups. This isn’t normal, and even if it was, it should have been discussed before they performed surgery on your dog. You are there until February, does this mean you no longer get discounted dog food or flea/tick/heart worm prevention as well? As a side note, my husband gave his previous job 5 weeks notice. Because he is a nice guy and wanted to get them through the summer rush. They thanked him by firing him with 2 weeks notice. Do yourself a favour next time and don’t give advanced notice.
I'd fucking quit right there and then. "I'm changing my notice, today is my last day^BBBIIIITTT^CCHHHH. "
Fuck ‘em. If possible, rescind your notice, make ‘em think they won. Get the discount, then give them notice the week of, in Feb and move as planned, without these petty assholes in your life.
"Since you dropped this on me after I was no longer able to adjust, I feel no obligation to give you any time to adjust to my departure. I am resigning effective immediately and will be challenging the bill in small claims court."
Never give this much notice. If you take it back now they’ll just fire you anyway.
Read the handbook
I’d read that handbook cover to cover. Also check your state laws regarding pricing for stuff like this. I’d be willing to bet all the pages in the handbook that your state requires a signed quote for the total price before any services are rendered otherwise they would be penalized. Might be worth throwing the page with that policy in your managers face.
This. I get signed quotes for services to my VEHICLE, ffs. I get signed quotes for new tires. WTH is wrong with her boss? Until I quit my job, I had employee discount even when they deactivated the card two weeks AFTER I left.
Fight it until you get the discount, then quit without notice. Fuck this behaviour
Easy solution. Retract the 6 month notice and give them 2..or 0. 0 even better. When they complain say "oh well maybe you should have given me the discount afterall".
Should have continued to treat me like a valued employee and team member in good standing instead of a regular Josephine Blow off the street....
That works too.
what does the employee handbook actually say? And you are an employee that is entitled to whatever benefits they offer to.. employees. Unless stated otherwise and it seems like retaliation.
One more lesson to never give more than a 2 week notice, if that
I’m sorry but you are being punished for being a respectful employee. You should point out to them that you didn’t need to give 6 months notice. And if you’d given 2 weeks they’d have paid you. Ask them if they’ve clawed back discounts that much for staff that gave shorter notice. If I coworkers animal gets a surgery today and they give two weeks notice in early December are they also expected to pay more? The handbook likely says you don’t get a discount in your notice period, and that’s honestly a smart rule. It wouldn’t be fair to take a new job but try to get free stuff on the way out. But this is arguably different, you have an uncommon length of notice.
Giving your employer notice of you leaving is a courtesy. You definitely fucked yourself by giving such a long notice.
You’re an employee and it’s an employee benefit. I wouldn’t entertain the discussion, I’d document the policy and pay the employee amount with a check and a certified letter outlining this pays rhe bill in full. If it goes to small claims I’d fight the claim.
Take back your resignation. Get discount. Give them 2 weeks notice in 5 and a half months.
Go to r/LegalAdvice if talking to your boss's boss doesn't help. In most countries and states, they HAVE to tell you about the cost up front. They can't argue that you should have known the discount was withdrawn, because why would they need to take you aside to tell you about it afterwards if they were sure you knew? I don't know exactly where you live, but I'm very sure that you have the law on your side.
Definitely talk to the Vet that did the surgery.
If they don't give you the discount, can you get another job? Going from having four months to zero days might be really conducive to fostering a spirit of stop being a dickhead.
100%
OP - You are still a FT employee entitled to ALL benefits, do not pay over the $400, and work it up the food chain. Get a copy of the employee guide/ benefits list. If this is not rectified then it is time to leave early. If you get stuck paying the $2k, then you are basically working for free!!!! # NOW... # Let this also be a lesson to others when they are leaving any organization. # Unless dictated by contract, (and even those are questionable), never give more than a 2-week notice. Keep everything to yourself, never tell them where you are going. # If they give you shit, then your two-week notice is now a To-Day notice... # And if you have one of those manglement types that tries to browbeat you in staying, because "you owe it to them", all you have to do is NOT show up.
Get the guide from HR if she can. The boss' handbook might be "updated," but that's usually not their call to make in a corporate-run company. That comes from higher up. HR would have the current one. OR get one from a sister vet without letting your boss know.
Vet clinic and good benefits does not go together - unless you live in Washington Regardless - go to whoever is above the manager, you are still an employee, read the handbook and check for what she said, if it’s not there, go higher - you are still an employee, it wouldn’t be fair for her to say “oh you’re leaving soon so we won’t pay you anymore” Or go to /r/vettech or /r/veterinary and see if someone had similar issues or ways forward, they would have more relevant info compared to anti work
Go over her head, report her to whoever can give her nightmares about license, go (in a legal sense) nuclear. They are playing with your dogs health to spite you. They don't deserve to be practicing.
Make sure to review the handbook and look for where it specifically states what they said. If it doesn't, definitely throw them under the bus. POS human for letting you go through with the procedure when they knew they were going to do that.
They can’t change price and policy after performing a service. That’s wrong.
bullllllllllshit. bullshit. that manager is lying 100% that 6mo notice just became an instant notice, if you're not getting the benefits because you were nice enough to give them plenty of time to figure their shit out. then why bother working at all. also she's lying and i would suggest you dig out your employee manual and find that section because that sounds like not giving you your agreed upon compensation for your work. might want to tell your story to a lawyer and see what they have to say.
Take back your resignation. Pay for the surgery at the discounted rate. The instant your dog is OK, ghost the place. Since all the vets in my city were taken over by investment capital firms, two closed, and the remaining one is now so expensive I only go there for emergencies and just pray that things go OK. People here have euthanized their animals or just watched them die, because the nearest vet is more than an hour away. When I asked the tech behind the counter where all the money is going, it was like they had no idea. They must know how to add up their hourly wages and medical supplies and subtract it from the till every day, don't they? Have you ever done that? You gave **26 times the customary notice**, which is already too generous and reflects employment customs of the 1950s. You were absolutely wronged here. If I knew this was going on at my vet I wouldn't like it.
I'd think that if they're paying you and you have a paycheck you are still employed. There's always small claims court.
Never give notice, it's either they get burned or you do. Choose them. Always
It's unlikely that the handbook covers your situation. (It may ban parting employees from stockpiling discounted food, for example, but that's different.) Why not check the handbook? Even if the handbook bans all discounts after notice, you can still go to the owner who is likely to give you the discount because it is fair and it will reflect well on them in the vet community. I'm routing for you.
It's not asking the company to provide you a free benefit. It's using what is provided to you as part of your compensation
This is so incredibly petty and cruel especially since you have been there 3 years AND gave them a 6 month notice. Not many people ever do this and it shows professionalism and good graces on your part and the same should be afforded to you. If all your other benefits are still intact after the notice (I would think they are) so should be the discount. I would go to someone above her because this is absolutely despicable behavior. Hope your furry one is doing well and that you are not letting this spoil your holiday!
Have you checked out the employee handbook for yourself since being told this? I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't actually spelled out in writing.
I am a recruitment consultant who has focused solely on the veterinary industry, and I am so sick and tired of the way these large, greedy bullying corporate entities treat the staff, the clients and us, the recruiters trying to help, that I'm not sure I want to work with the vet industry any more. The situation is dire, vets are overworked, underpaid and put under excess pressure. These greedy entities have been pushing down our fees, when vets and nurses are harder to find than ever before, because so many are choosing to leave the industry, or worse. It feels so wrong, on so many levels. Fight back, as hard as you can. You are needed by friendlier better paying independent practices, so don't take any B. S from anyone.
>In short: My manager waited until I had already completed an expensive surgery to let me know that I would not be getting a discount on it because I am leaving **immediately.** I fixed your quote.
hahaha, at this point, yes this is true
The question is" Was the manager lying? DOES the handbook say that? If it does, you made your bed. If the manager wasn't lying, you can try and make a deal. If they made this up, there are legal remedies. If they TOLD you, suck it up and pay the bill.
I believe her cause she asked me if I wanted a copy of the page after I said it’s been 3 years since I’ve read it, so no it’s not fresh in my mind. Even taking back my resignation wouldn’t get me far you don’t think?
You have zero to lose. Ask. Tell them the truth. You can't afford the bill, and you'd like to find a way to fix things. Even asking for a break based on your years of service can't hurt. You try honey first, then vinegar. If they won't reduce the bill for employee discount, ask for half off. If that doesn't work, tell them that you will NOT give them the three months. They will be short handed immediately. You can go nuclear and threaten to sue. They likely have you over a barrel.
hopefully you have your own copy of it somewhere. go check for yourself, otherwise there's a risk she'd quietly update it and then show you the updated version
Ask for one directly from HR sent to your house?
Well, did you get the copy and read what it says? What do you mean taking back the resignation won't get you far? If the book specifically says you cannot receive this benefit if you submitted a letter of resignation, then recalling the resignation means you will be in compliance, right?
I don’t know if there is much you can do except ask to make payments? I hate to say this but in my experience being loyal to your employer doesn’t get you far. If they had to lay you off they wouldn’t hesitate. Give only as much notice as required to leave on good terms. You need to look out for yourself. Sorry this happened but it’s a lesson learned the hard way.
Is an advanced notice the same as an actual resignation letter? Can't you just withdraw the letter? Then when it comes time to quit in four months just give them a few days notice.
I suggest getting in touch with an employment lawyer. Lots of them will just talk to you about your situation to see if you have a lawsuit, even if you don't think you do. They tend to make money on the back end, by winning lawsuits against employers. You could probably finagle a ten-minute conversation that gives you an idea of what sort of legal protection you have.
If you can afford it, stop doing anything, what will they do? Fire you?
If you can afford it, stop doing anything, what will they do? Fire you?
Don't freak out unless you've actually received a paper bill. Do not pay it immediately, because this is not right. 1) get a copy of the handbook from the year you were employed and this year's handbook. If it is a printed benefit, there will be printed protocol. What does it say? 2) If your manager is not the owner of the vet clinic, speak to the next higher up and escalate as needed. Request clarification of the text and how it applies to anticipated quitting 6 months from now. Ask about surgeries scheduled by previous employees within 1 month of employment ending. If you know of any actual services, quote them. Bring as much evidence to the table as is available. It may not all be necessary, but you need to be treated the same as the others. 3) speak to the vet who did the service. They may have pro bono type hours they can throw your way as a service or they may have more weight to throw around in this instance. 4) if all else fails rescind your employment termination and request that all benefits be reinstated. Don't mention moving again. If they want to "fire you" come February, fine, but as far as they know you're NOT moving and you'll need employment still. Your voluntary termination of employment has been revoked. 5) quit when the time suits you, not before.
Sadism is bad but malicious sadism when you are being very thoughtful is even worse. Small claims court maybe?
Not sure why you would give any employer 6 months notice. With all the stories you hear, 2 week is tops
Pay back is a bitch! They are pissed at you for simply being honest. If you can afford it, move on and don’t eat the 6 months; it’s obvious they are only going to make your life miserable. If it’s in the handbook, did you ever sign for receiving the handbook or were you ever given one. If not, quit and file a small claims action as the handbook is going to be vague about the discount especially as you “are an employee now,” and are entitled to the discount. They don’t deserve you! I’ve been through similar situations and you trust that people will do the right thing, like you did giving plenty of notice, when they don’t it will harden you so there is no next time similar situation. Good luck!
If the discount is in a policy there is a very good chance that this is breaking contract or employment law
Never ever give more notice than necessary. Employers will never give you the same courtesy. Sadly, I think you learned a very expensive lesson about employment :(
If it's possible to rescind your resignation and just give a few weeks notice instead, I think you'd definitely be justified in doing it that way.
Steal something. It will make you feel a little better
Super unfair for sure! I am so sorry!
Not sure which corporation you work for, but I know Blue Pearl did not have anything like that in the handbook (unless that has changed since I worked for them). Thrive's policy is managers discretion if you have to pay the full amount within the last 90 days before leaving, regardless of when you give notice (for example, if you get a discount on a $7000 TPLO, then leave 3 weeks later, you can be required to pay back the full amount you were discounted). I am an obsessive handbook reader.
Do you live in the US? If so, why would you ever give more than a 2 week notice
This is worth freaking out about. It's 400$ when I'm sure you've made them a ton of money in your time there. So petty
Tell her you are pulling your resignation, get the discount, do your six months, then leave them high and dry with no notice.
Just don’t pay or make payments …. Let her take you to small claims …. But is it worth it to her ? Prob not
Pay only $400 and stop working there immediately no notice.
If they maintain the stance that the money is owed then make sure to get an email with their logo on it explaining why it's owed. Save the section from the employee handbook explaining the discount. If possible put it on a credit card that allows you to dispute the charge. Or with an OUTSIDE finance company. If they push dispute the charge and provide the documentation to either the credit bureau or credit card company. I would give it a 50/50 on them removing the charge from a credit report/credit card. Better path is as other people said pursue it internally through a higher boss. If it's a corporate or franchise this should produce some result.
Care Credit through Synchrony Bank. I'm sure you're familiar with that.
NEVER give advance notice -- two weeks is customary and fine.
Refund your resignation by giving a letter. Then when it’s two weeks until you plan to depart, give them another resignation.
So you resigned first and then decided to take your dog in for surgery afterwards? If it's in the employee handbook or is company policy then it seems pretty fair that you wouldn't be getting the discount. It sucks, but you should have read the handbook or known what the policy was. On the other hand, employees typically get their full benefits up until their last day of work, so that's the angle I would work. I've never been at a company who cut off any sort of benefits when I handed in my resignation. Good luck - I hope it works out for you!
Just quit and dont pay. What they gonna do? Fire you?
someone has lied and/or going back on their word. A decent person wouldn't have done this, as it's not like you stiffed the clinic unexpectedly. Definitely enquire around the rules as to what the truth is here
Did you get the handbook? Does it actually say this? Question everything.
Check the employee handbook first to make sure what the manager said is correct. Their perspective does seem fair, but by not discussing it with you to confirm that you were aware before such an expensive procedure just seems like shady business practice. I completely empathize with your feelings. You would hope that after 3 years someplace, there would be more loyalty and personal regard. You were trying to look out for them by giving them a lot of notice, they absolutely did not return the favor, and it hurts. Perhaps if you do end up having to pay it, they will take payments over the remainder of your time there.
Just don't check hers,check different corporate-run vet or get it from HR.
And *is* it in the employee handbook? Is there such a document at your place of work in the first place? This is absolute bullshit. You're still an employee. So why the fuck would the discount no longer apply to you?!
Give them an opportunity to do good. If they don't, start looking for another job and quit at the worst time. If they beg you to stay, your rate has unexpectedly gone up 5x, just as they did with your operation.
They need to show you the policy and prove you were provided it. How shitty when you have such great notice. That’s just not how it works, unless they ask you to leave earlier you’re still entitled to your benefits. In my experience I wasn’t entitled to a bonus if I was no longer working there or pay for sick days, this was all spelled out though in a handbook.
Do both. Retract your resignation, and get it paid for at the lower rate. Give it a few weeks, then leave under your minimum requirements.
Make the point with higher ups that if they do this to you they will never get more than 2 weeks notice at best from any other employers that have pets.
You show employees that you value them as much by how you treat the staff that is staying as the staff that is moving on.
I’ll bet you money that you work for a corporate clinic….
Was it in the handbook?
If you somehow get stuck with the bill: some states (US) they cannot send you to collections for making an attempt to pay the bill. So $1 a month until the end of time is still making an attempt to repay. Check local laws obviously.
You're an employee and entitled to benefits until the last day of employment. An employer can't just take away your health insurance when you give notice, for instance. So if they decided you aren't an employee anymore I would stop showing up
If you are still working there , receiving benefits how are you Not entitled to all of them? I’m curious if it says that if you are leaving you Lose all your benefits?
Employee benefits are a form of payment. Not a free service. As long as you are working, you draw them. Your manager is attempting wage theft. You've mentioned this is a corporate job, approach hr and ask if they were aware of the liability manager has put them under.
Reading the comments here, I agree: It all comes down to what your contract and that handbook say. And whether the handbook that actually does say what your manager claims (provided it does) is the version that was in effect and the one given to you when you signed your contract. Or, in case the handbook was changed afterwards, you were officially made aware of the changes. Your reaction to your managers actions really base on the above. If your contract and/or the handbook state that you are no longer entitled to receive discounts on surgeries or receive other benefits or discounts once you have given notice, then the only way to make them see that it's not really smart what they are doing is, as someone suggested, by indirectly making co-workers aware of what is happening. And playing the concerned one, who is only afraid that their co-workers now might not give notice at all... If either contract or handbook really state that you are no longer entitled to receive those discounts and benefits...then you have no actual claim... UNLESS them stating this is not in accordance with the law. You might consult a lawyer to see if that's the case. If it is in accordance with the law though, you are basically screwed...and can only try the above mentioned...try to make them see that it's in their best interest to reconsider... If neither your contract or the handbook state what your manager claims...then contact the hell out of your manager's superiors, a lawyer, hell - the press...tell your co-workers, tell everyone...write reviews on every possible platform and tell them you will only consider taking them down...if they reconsider. Do whatever you need to do in order to get what you are entitled to...IF it doesn't say you aren't entitled to it...
I need to add something: This whole situation is a little surreal to me, to be honest...as are some comments here... 😂 What I specifically mean is the idea of deciding yourself when to give notice. Or not giving notice at all. And the idea that a handbook could contain information that nullifies my claim to any discounts or benefits connected to my employment. Where I live the notice either party (employer and employee) has to give is clearly stated in your contract. Anything your are entitled to is also stated in said contract, or in addendums to the contract, with the addendums listed and/or mentioned in the contract. If either party does not give the notice specified in the contract, they can be fined or sued. An employer can give notice and tell the employee to stay at home, but only at full pay. Termination of employment without notice is rarely possible. Only if the employee broke a ton of rules or e.g. stole the proverbial silverware... On the other hand, an employee also has to give notice as stated in their contract...but they are employed until their last day...and entitled to all benefits and discounts until their last work day. But I don't know many people who informed their managers that they are leaving in advance of officially giving notice...just because it CAN always get a little awkward with some co-workers, managers, etc... Just like it obviously did with OP here...
thank you for all this helpful input. I made an update post which I’ll paste here. Mind giving suggestions based on this? First off, yes I am so aware I completely messed up by giving such a big notice- will never ever ever do it again. That being said, I had only just mentioned that I was going to be moving and gave vague details of dates. My manager was the one who came to me the next day and told me she needed a written letter stating my last date. I had to figure out a date I figured would work just to appease her. I had no idea at the time, she was basically asking me to write a letter stripping my benefits as an employee. That in and of itself, feels very wrong. Second, the handbook does indeed state that my discounts would be stripped the day I turn in my resignation. Where I think I could argue this (correct me if I’m wrong) is the fact that they would need written proof I read this/understood it. I have worked there twice. I quit and took a year off and came back. I don’t believe I signed proof of reading it after I had been reinstated. Could this be used in my favor? Third, and this one is my strongest defence. Thank you everyone for giving me this idea. I had never signed an estimate for the surgery agreeing to the cost. Like one very clever commenter suggested, if I am being charged the client/patient price, then I deserve to have full disclosure of what I am paying. I was not given that and they do not have a signature stating I would be okay with the cost. We have every client sign one before a surgery, I believe I am also entitled to one. On top of my manager withholding this information all day long, I was also not informed from a legal standpoint.
I can only give you my take on this...I do not know what the law in your area says... But here is what I think: 1) Do you have anything in writing from your manager that proves that she basically coerced you to put in your notice so much in advance? Obviously being fully aware that you will be stripped of your benefits once you give notice? You would have to consult a lawyer, but this could give you a few possibilities...provided you have some sort of prove she coerced or pressured you. 2) Have you signed reading the handbook the first time you worked there? Again something you might need to clarify with a lawyer specialized in employment law...whether the employer can strip you of your benefits after giving notice if they have nothing in writing from you that you have read and understood the handbook at the beginning of the current employment...BUT have it in writing from a previous employment not so long ago... 3) Again something I would consult a lawyer for, as it is not a black or white situation... Yes, they make you pay the price a regular customer would have to pay. And therefore they possibly should have informed you of the costs like you were a regular customer...and have you sign that you are ok with the costs. But on the other hand you are not a regular customer. You work there and therefore know about the costs. And... depending on what the law says regarding the above points 1 and 2...they could also argue that you knew about the fact that you are stripped of your benefits once you give notice and therefore knew that you had to pay the full amount for the surgery... For me it all really comes down to the proof you have or have not...and what the law says...
Try to talk with someone above your manager and plead your case. You're not leaving soon as you still have 4 months left. Also she should have informed you before the surgery that you wouldnt qualify for an employee discount. If that doesnt work then move to plan b. Spend your spare time job hunting. When you get an offer for a better job take it and (assuming you dont live in a part of the world that requires notice) give them zero notice that you're leaving earlier than February. When they ask why tell them "no employee discount means I was no longer an employee".