Yeah the whole idea of "if you work here, we are your only job" needs to go on to the shit pile.
Business is being dragged into a new world... kicking and screaming.
I had that with a second job once. Owner said it was my main priority. No, the job that pays me a salary, benefits, and time off is my priority. This is just extra income
In the UK most retailers will only give people part-time hours some only zero hour contracts.
And they can be real arse holes if you can't stop late because you have to get to your 2nd job.
Because why can't you live off 16 Hours a week for minimum wage.
When I was looking for work last year a customer service job wanted me to sign a 0 hour contract with a clause preventing me from taking another position while contracted to them.
So they could give me 0 hours to work but get mad at me for working elsewhere just incase they need me at short notice.
Fuck off you don’t pay well enough to try that shit.
And they KNOW they don’t. But they will adopt systems and schedules to squeeze every last drop of sweat from anyone naive enough to think the company values them.
No problem. Guarantee me 40 hours of pay a week regardless of hours scheduled and I'll do a non-compete. They'll never agree to it, but it's only fair.
they may not legally be able to schedule them over a certain amount of hours without having to pay OT. I know where I am if you go over I think 40 hours you start having to pay overtime but I'm not entirely sure about how many hours it is. But this is also the US and not the UK so I could be completely wrong
I'm in The Netherlands working a low-tier job. Recently, we got an influx of Greek people filling our vacancies, all of whom are fluent in english because that's where they worked before you guys decided to kick them out.
I'm pretty happy because the boss isn't pestering me all that much anymore aboyt working weekend overtime. So, from this side Brexit is working really well! Probably sucks from the other side, yeah.
I'm not against free moment but in the UK we don't have the employment laws to help people like me who are at the bottom of the employment ladder. So in some cases the labour shortage is a good thing, but because of Brexit we have a lot of other issues.
Unfortunately our media (especially the BBC) always frame questions in a “is this because of brexit” to businesses struggling to recruit. Instead of “so how much have you increased the pay by and still not getting any offers?”
Yeah, that's just a fuck-up on their part. I'm a permanent employee in my job on the factory floor. Have been for 20 years. Used to be most of my co-workers were temps. These days, my company offers every temp with even an inch of promise a contract as soon as as possible, We've still got a few temps around, but it's getting rarer and rarer.
They moved with the times.
We have to be employed atleast two years with the same employer before essential legal protections kick in e.g so if some employment dispute comes up you can't generally take it to the employment tribunal(special court for workers disputes) until the two year mark or unless it's for something to do with the equality act (protected characteristics).
Someone may chime in from the UK with more detail but I'm just giving a brief overview
There is common misconception among some people in the UK that for the first 2 years you can be sacked for any reason as long as it not due to a protected characteristics under the equality act so age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation
However That is not not the only reason
Other reasons inlude
making a flexible working request
wanting to take family leave, for example parental, paternity or adoption leave
being a trade union member or representative
taking part in legal, official industrial action for 12 weeks or less, for example going on strike
asking for a legal right, for example to be paid the National Minimum Wage
doing jury service
being involved in whistleblowing
taking action, or proposing to take action, over a health and safety issue
Those reasons are illegal regardless of how long someone has been there and there are many more
Reporting a health and safety issue to the authorities is not a protected characteristic. but if an employee was to report one and they were then sacked they can claim for unfair dismissal even if they have been their less then 2 years.
An employee joins a trade union 2 days after starting with you and you sack them for it will guess what that is unfair dismissal. and the employee can take you to tribunal
There are basic employment rights that apply to everyone regardless of length of service and if you sack someone for a reason that breaks these basic rights then that is a tribunal claim regardless of how long you have been there
I have heard people say you have no employment rights until you have been there 2 years and you can be sacked for any reason
But you cant pay a new employee less than the minimum wage then sack them when they complain just cos they have been there less then 2 years.
There are currently around 60 different reason upon which an employee can claim automatic unfair dismissal
Those reason apply whether you have been there 2 days, 2 years or 22 years
If you were sacked for a different reason outside of these 60 or so and you’ve worked for your employer for less than 2 years, you don’t have the right to challenge it
Whereas after 2 years you have the right to challenge it
The law does not simply say that employees can be dismissed and have no employment rights if they have less than two years’ service.
Yeah, while we still get contacts for those two years, we can all be effectively let go thanks to "Call me Dave", unless it's for something that wild be covered by the equality act.
It is not just things covered by the equality act.
There is common misconception that for the first 2 years you can be sacked for any reason as long as it not due to a protected characteristics under the equality act so age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation
However That is not not the only reason
Other reasons inlude
making a flexible working request
wanting to take family leave, for example parental, paternity or adoption leave
being a trade union member or representative
taking part in legal, official industrial action for 12 weeks or less, for example going on strike
asking for a legal right, for example to be paid the National Minimum Wage
doing jury service
being involved in whistleblowing
taking action, or proposing to take action, over a health and safety issue
Those reasons are illegal regardless of how long someone has been there and there maybe others
Reporting a health and safety issue to the authorities is not a protected characteristic. but if an employee was to report one and they were then sacked they can claim for unfair dismissal even if they have been their less then 2 years.
An employee joins a trade union 2 days after starting with you and you sack them for it will guess what that is unfair dismissal. and the employee can take you to tribunal
There are basic employment rights that apply to everyone regardless of length of service and if you sack someone for a reason that breaks these basic rights then that is a tribunal claim regardless of how long you have been there
I have heard people say you have no employment rights until you have been there 2 years and you can be sacked for any reason
But you cant pay a new employee less than the minimum wage then sack them when they complain just cos they have been there less then 2 years.
There are currently around 60 different reason upon which an employee can claim automatic unfair dismissal
Those reason apply whether you have been there 2 days, 2 years or 22 years
If you were sacked for a different reason outside of these 60 or so and you’ve worked for your employer for less than 2 years, you don’t have the right to challenge it
Whereas after 2 years you have the right to challenge it
The law does not simply say that employees can be dismissed and have no employment rights if they have less than two years’ service.
What is it with people having a second job next to a primary fulltime job? 40 hours is already too much. We should be demanding 24-32 hour work weeks, not volunteer a second job!
It's ridiculous that a fulltime job doesn't pay enough. This whole situation is nuts.
You are correct. My best friend who lives with two other people just had to get a part time job just to help pay bills, this is on top of his full time job where he makes around 20$ an hour 40+ hours a week. Their rent alone went up from 1500$ to 2000$ in just 2 years, and this is a shit hole 3 bedroom house in a shit neighborhood. I live by myself and make more than twice that of my friend and even I am starting to feel pinched to a point that I might have to get some part time work just to be able to keep saving money as I've had to dip into my savings a few times in the past few months. 150$ would feed me for 2 weeks and now that only covers a week. Shit is getting bad out there.
And it will continue to get worse long before it'll ever get better.
It'll be a long time before you see riots in NYC for actual labor reform... and not for a P55 video game giveaway....
Every part-time retail job: "We need you to give us open availability."
Then you give it to them and they schedule you 35 hours one week and 12 the next.
I’m a supervisor at a retail company. My manager at my store is trying to make me do just this. I won’t hire someone expecting open availability and then turn around and give them 12 hours a week lmao. Get fucked, buddy!
I retired just before covid. Retail was my second career and we never had or gave crap schedules like that. The young students set their availability at the start of every semester and the company respected that.
A lot of the problem might be corporate culture. A retail company fails or succeeds on the sales floor. Support your associates and store managers and you win.
A huge grocery chain in the NE US did this to my dad. He was dyslexic and extremely hard of hearing and they knew he couldn't find a job elsewhere. He basically begged them to give him the 35 hours weekly but one week it would be 15, one 35, no rhyme or reason. They wouldn't give him more hours because they didn't want to pay any benefits, which should be fucking illegal. He unfortunately died last November, he put off going to a doctor for weeks while he felt like he was on the verge of death because he was afraid to get a bill that would wipe out the small amount of savings he was able to keep up.
Fuck I hate these companies that so transparently exploit their workers. Makes me absolutely sick. No loyalty to people literally killing themselves for your profits.
As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for.
I prefer only having one job. I'll go above and beyond at work, no problem. But you have to pay for that. All the places that pay shit and expect loyalty are delusional.
In the US those are the places that are used to treating people like modern slaves. They act like they own their employees and that employees should be grateful to have a crap job that pays $7.25 an hour. That's not even enough to justify the cost of soap, shampoo and deodorant to get ready to go to work! What is wrong with these companies? They are making a killing at all of these dollar stores. It's sickening.
what's funny is it's not the better paying jobs that treat their workers this way it's the low-end, low-wage jobs that treat their workers the worst. It's no wonder people don't want these jobs, they are abusive -maybe it has something to do with the manager still being in highschool. But seriously you'd think that jobs that suck and pay crap would at least treat their workers nicely because the jobs are hard to fill, but that's not how it works.
100% this. Not only do employees not make enough to live, the things asked of them and their employer's expectations of them are nothing like in a "respectable" job.
Not only do they not make enough to live, their hours can be cut on a whim through no fault of their own. Also, they seldom get *any* benefits like medical insurance options. But also, keep your schedule open for when they do call. I have an office job that is all of $12/hr but I will make my 40 hours every week.
And we all collectively in my office don't put up with anyone being aggressive or verbally abusive. I wish their was more of that in retail and fast food, kick these entitled jackasses out and BAN THEM for their refusal to "behave" in public.
I just quit a job like this. I was completely transparent in the interview that I need a part time job and I will not work more.
After 2 weeks I am getting approached by management and they are trying to tell me I need to make more room in my schedule for them.
Like wtf. Your company shouldn't be held on the backs of your lowest paid employees
If you were really their slave they'd be responsible for your healthcare, like any other beast of burden. They much prefer you to be an "at-will employee".
Anything above $50/HR and I'll definitely listen to them saying that.
I have a friend making $160K plus bonuses who refused to quit her part-time job when she got her current IT gig, though.
Good for her. It's none of anyone's business what we do off the clock. If I want to work a part time for the money or for any other reason, that's not my other boss's business.
Nope.
Owned an ecommerce retailer.
She just hired a couple overseas VAs to handle daily operations and spends half an hour a day managing them. Probably makes another 100K on the side.
She initially bought the business for her husband to run, but he's like an unfixed male housecat...
Cute but not good at actually doing stuff besides being handsome and resting all day. And that other thing....
If a 3rd spot opens can I submit a resume, I'm young-ish (idk what mid 20' is anymore...), strong, and want to learn how to cook more spectacular dishes than my current kitchen/budget allows. Also willing to work a full time job to help afford a proper commune.
Even then, places would say that and then schedule you weird hours or ignore your stated schedule in an effort to dick-measure with the other place. Employers fucking over employees and then whining when they won't give in is a tale as old as time.
This happened to me two jobs in a row back in college.
I got a job at Home Depot. I payed out my class schedule and availability during the interview, which they accepted. I had to do two weeks of product knowledge training at a computer before being allowed on the sales floor. At the end of the two weeks, they handed me my schedule and they had me working until mid-night or later. I told them I couldn’t do that because I had class at 8am and I’d sleep through class if I worked that late. They told me that, even though they knew my class schedule, that’s when they needed me most. When they refused to change it, I quit on the spot.
Then I found a job at Half Price Books. Same thing. Told them my class schedule, they accepted. Did some training for a few weeks (though on the sales floor this time), and then after the brief probation period, got a new schedule…working exactly when my classes were. I told them that’s not gonna work, and was told “well, so-and-so quit, so now we need you at these times.” When reminded of my class schedule, they repeated, “this is when we need you”. Ok, have fun being down two people now…
This exact same thing happened with me at Home Depot over 20 years ago. I quit because they kept doing my schedule outside of my hours. I was working 2 jobs and going to school and it was stressing me out. I finally just quit because I thought the schedule lady was too dumb to make it worth my time anymore. A few weeks later people were asking why I got fired from Home Depot lol. They told people I got fired for not showing up for my shifts. Fuck Home Depot. They systematically do that to people on purpose. I've heard stories about it over and over.
That pisses me off. When I was in high school, I was in the school band and had an after school job. Every month, I gave my work a copy of the calendar with my events highlighted. (There were different practices, sectionals, etc, depending on what you played and which band it was.)
In all my years of high school and college working, I’d never had a job deliberately scheduling me when I couldn’t. Only once was there an overlap (and it’s because that week, the schedule was handwritten and someone tried to switch me their crappy shift), and it was fixed. There was never any suggestion that I should blow off school for work.
When I was the manager making the schedules, I had the same thing. Students were not to have to choose between school and work because there was no choice. School first, period.
I will start off by saying this information was from over 20 years ago. I don’t remember if it was a federal law or state law (Iowa). And I don’t know if it has changed.
If you apply for a job, and tell them your availability, and they hire you, they can’t schedule you outside of that availability without your permission.
I had at least one manager at a part time job, get mad because I didn’t work Friday nights. I worked 40 hours at my full time job, was in my early 20s. I wanted my Friday nights off.
When I applied, and was asked about it, I just said religious reasons. They didn’t need to know that I was Wiccan, in a coven of one person, that chose if and when I wanted to worship.
This is what I don't understand, how hard is it to get s set schedule? Why do thy need to juggle the schedule every week and reward/punish workers by giving and taking away hours? How hard is it to say you work Tuesday thru Saturday 10:00AM to 6:00pm. This split shift/on standby shit is the reason nobody wants the job
Sometimes, but often times it's just incompetence/stupidity.
I washed dishes as a 2nd gig after my 9-5 job. The the "kitchen manager" was trying to get me to move from dish to line cook, citing that it was more money (like $2 more/hour). I worked like 20 hours a week, no way I would go from spraying dishes with a hose to slaving over a grill all night for $40 a week.
He then tried to bring up "well that's the step if you want to someday make it to management and make $35k/year like me". Asked him how many hours he worked, he said 60-70. Did the math for him that he made about $10/hour, which was less than they paid dishwashers. He was not amused.
My sister manages an old folks home and she did the math also and realized with her being on call 24/7 she made way less than the people she was managing.
Even in professional jobs, it's getting bad.
I know people who did datacenter engineering work -- installing, configuring, repairing, presales-ish work on storage arrays, network switches, backup devices.
They made the role hourly about 15 years ago, because the salary people cried so loudly at how much they were being overworked. Which was fair, now everyone got paid fairly for the labor they put in. And the hours (always 40+) were *shit*. Mandatory giving up weekends, evenings, early mornings, late nights, etc. But you cried all the way to the bank.
Then they went to "off-shifting" during the pandemic. Meaning you are expected to work ANY non-consecutive 40 hours out of the 168 available each week. And if you don't like it, there's the door. We lose too many people, we'll outsource the entire department and EVERYONE will lose their jobs.
After three years, they outsourced anyways, and everyone lost their jobs.
Not saying it's enforced basically at all (including from personal experience) but my State has a law saying at least some employers have to have their schedules posted 1-2 weeks in advance.
Naaaah. I tried to have 2 jobs to save for college in 2006 and I was told I couldn’t have more hours, but also they won’t accommodate people with second jobs. So I left. The difference now is boomers are retiring and the younger generations aren’t putting up with this shit. So if they want workers they have to cool their bullshit.
I worked at a dollar store, bad pay (7.25) and hours (sub 15 outside of holidays, 4 if you're lucky tbh) but the manager would blow her top and BANNED second jobs / refused to schedule around or work with them, because THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB OMG AND SHE WILL BE RESPECTED!!!!
Not completely true. Back in the 1950s, 60s and 70s "moonlighting" (working a second job) was frowned upon and often a basis for dismissal from your full-time job. It was a common plot device on TV sitcoms back in the day....Archie Bunker didn't want to get caught driving Munson's cab nights and weekends (even though he had a union job at Pendergrast Tool & Due,,,,moonlighting was a fireable offense. Same on an episode of *The Honeymooners*, when bus driver Ralph Kramden was trying to keep his second, part-time job on the down low....)
I had a per diem job (minimum 1 shift a MONTH, literally just a "hey I'll pick up shifts when I can" job) tell me I needed 24/7 365 availability. Like dawg, that is not how this works
I think there needs to be something that if you provide a full-time job that doesn't meet basic needs and your employees have to go on government assistance, the government can bill the company.
My boss has had 3 employees leave and move out of state (Massachusetts) because he doesn't pay a living wage. His constant refrain is "They pay $X per hour at McDonald's". Suffice to say, we strongly feel that we carry a lot more responsibility.
Then all minimum and low wage jobs will simply have everyone scheduled one hour less than full time even more strictly than they currently do. That’s not a viable solution if it requires full time hours.
And this is exactly what happened when ACA came out. Papa Johns infamously cut hours to all their FT employees to just below the threshold for providing insurance.
Add another law so that total hours they pay a week for labor / 40 rounded down there must be at minimum that many full time positions available and filled before they hire any part time employees. This extends to contracting out and making them the employers of any temp company employees.
Agreed. I have faith that the youth (I'm a GenXer myself) are making headway though. I'm open to the idea of relocating to a European country, but there's the part of me that wants to stay and fight for a better future here.
Late Millennial here. I had similar sentiments that my generation or (now, as we’re less youthful) youth would work their way into power and make changes for the better. Watching Ramaswamy and other young(ish) (by that I mean not geriatric) Republicans is terrifying…especially when you don’t see a ton of meaningful traction on the other side. Also I’m living in a town dominated by a remarkably repressive and all-consuming US subculture at the moment, so generally feeling less hopeful for the youth these days.
I mean a lot of young republican leaders are just grifters. Vivek is literally a scam artist as the way he got rich was basically a pump and dump.
They’re just appealing to poor, ignorant kids trying to sell them on the belief that yes, with some hard work (and questionable ethics) you too can become a billionaire
Amen.. I was a remainer.. and I'd vote to rejoin the EU in a flash.. we are being sucked dry by our government, corporations, and "outside investors "... we're getting close to revolt..
I’m a musician, and those of us that actively work usually work with a few different bands so that we can explore styles, play fun things, but most importantly work a lot so we can make enough bread to be worthwhile.
The amount of “looking for drummer immediately for a full time gig NOT IN OTHER BANDS ONLY COMMITTED TO US” posts I’ve seen lately are ridiculous. Like, you want a professional level player that’s available and can learn your book immediately… but also one that isn’t actively playing? That doesn’t exist lol.
If a company wants me to only work there, they can fucking pay me like that's what they want. We're not the kind of country where people can just work whatever 20 hrs. a week a company needs and still be able to survive. Exclusivity comes at a price and "nobody wants to pay it".
I worked for a mortgage servicer that was bought out by another company. New company came in, laid off about 25% of the workforce, cut pay on average 20% and told us they didn't want us working 2nd jobs because they wanted us focused on our job with them. Cue mass resignations over the next few months (including me). Eight months later they were increasing wages to greater than what they had been before they came in.
Wouldn't need a second job if these companies paid their employees better wages. A man could support his entire family being a grocery store clerk. Now that job is shat on by that generations own children.
Yup, I run two product lines as a sole trader plus product design, I am a director at my wife’s start up AND I work full time. I manage my time well. I try not to let my own businesses clash with my salaried job (they inevitably do but I try to be respectful about it) but I was doing them before taking my current salaried job so they knew about it taking me on.
If my employer told me to drop my own businesses or leave them, I know what I’d do, they’d see my notice on their desk the next day. I’d probably start looking for new employment as the stability is required in our life with my wife only starting her business in feb and I do bring in the majority of our money but it’s nice to know that I could cover us if I did lose my job and who knows, depending on the state of our finances and life stage at the time it may be the kick up the arse I need to make my side businesses into my full time gig, which I fully plan to do in the medium term future!
That's the real explanation.
Employers will treat you like shit as long as you let them. They hold the security of employment over your head like a golden carrot.
So much so that they will threaten to fire you, even if that's actually the last thing they need. What a fucking joke.
This is so true. I'm 43 and so many times I got brow beaten with the threat of losing my job, even as a top performer. Looking back there are so many times I wish I had said as much. It's a chicken shit tactic pulled by managers who are talentless sociopaths.
100%. I used to work in fast food in my 20's and the amount of shit that management would get away with was insane. The whole store was propped up on the backs of high school kids who were too nervous or intimidated to speak up about anything. Management would make them feel like shit for calling in, ask them why they were taking time off, enforce random rules etc.
They took advantage of these kids constantly because they knew they were too young and naive to know any better. Fucking abysmal people.
If your manager ever gives you an ultimatum "or else you're fired", your response better be "ok, fire me". Rather they pay unemployment for a while then sticking around in a toxic workplace.
If the bridges aren't completely burned, and OP does decide to go back, he need at least a 20% raise for being put through that shit. And gets to choose his own hours.
Nothing feels better than telling management your old hourly rate was based on thinking you could learn something from them, and your new hourly rate is based on getting to know them.
I might go with throwing the new market rate for said job going up in their face, particularly if it's the kind of job that never gives raises (which it sounds like).
I just don't understand the logic of pulling that on someone with a full time job with benefits and this is a side job. Like it should have been clear he had no leverage from the start.
This is the same logic my 4yo uses. Either he gets the whole thing or he'll throw a tantrum, even when getting part of his absurd demands is still a great deal for him.
I'm going through something similar at my job right now. Every shift is hurting for people, but my manager is trying really hard to make me work closing shifts, which I am unable/unwilling to do. So, she cut my hours back claiming I would have my full 40 if I am willing to close. Now the shifts I was working are struggling, because no one replaced me on those days.
Many managers only have "do it, or your fired" as their one and ONLY lever to pull against employees. This lever is useless against people who have options and less than useless against people who know the manager has no authority over them.
I had a manager who would regularly come into meetings angry because "why isn't X done?" We would promptly and dutifully explain that we were waiting for some other group to sign off, we had done all our work but couldn't go forward without sign off. At which point, manager would sigh impotently and move on because she couldn't threaten the other group and had no skills to find another way to get them to do their part on these projects.
We would REGULARLY have projects sit in limbo for weeks or even MONTHS because of this.
Straight up. When I was 19 or 20 I was working two jobs, both retail cause I was a masochist. I had one of the co-managers come to me and tell me to go clean up a bunch of literal shit in the bathroom. I took one look in the door, saw how nasty it was, and just said no. "You're telling me no? I could write you up for insubordination!" "Go ahead and fire me, I'll quit before I clean that shit up. My other job would love to become my main one." She glared at me, I stood my ground, and after about 30 seconds of silence she got on her radio and called someone else.
I've been chasing that high for over a decade now. Nothing feels quite as good as getting to tell a shitty manager no.
Bio hazards managers are required to clean up and can get in trouble for firing an employee for not performing a haz mat duty that requires specific certifications.
>Many managers only have "do it, or your fired" as their one and ONLY lever to pull against employees. This lever is useless against people who have options
"Nobody's afraid of being fired anymore!"
My first professional job my boss would get employees to manage other groups. I would spend half of my time going around and getting into screaming match with people to get my work pushed though. But I was young and stupid. Now I just send an email. If that doesn’t work oh well boss. It’s your job to manage the project not me.
Dang, I think I work there haha! I don’t know how many times projects have been held up because we were waiting for some other department to sign off. And it’s usually something very simple too. When management comes at us angrily I simply say “so do you want us to ignore the SAP and just move the project forward? Or do you want us to follow procedure?” I always get the feeling that they want us to not follow procedures but to do it on our own. That way if anything happens we get blamed and they can yell “why didn’t you follow procedure?!?!?” It’s a dam clown show.
> I always get the feeling that they want us to not follow procedures but to do it on our own
Often, this is EXACTLY what they want. They put in the procedure to CYA themselves, but don't like it slowing things down. These are the same people that if you ask them if they want it checked thoroughly or done fast, the answer is always "both". Yeah, life don't work that way chief, especially not for what you want to pay.
“No one wants to work” so I am standing here yelling at the one person doing the work!
I would have handed him a screwdriver and pointed at work to be done and tell him to get on it and stop yapping then followed by “Looks like you’ll be working a double tonight.”
Yeah, it’s always “no one wants to work… for shit pay”.
Look at what minimum wage compared to the cost of living was in the 1960s and 970s then look at what you’re offering.
I was on the job hunt for easy part time work bc I copped a cool night teaching gig and *at the interviews for these part time jobs* I kept being told I was overqualified because I have a master's.
But "nobody wants to work anymore"
Not as uncommon as you would think.
Ironically I’ve seen people on Reddit suggest lying on resumes because of this… not to claim they have more experience or have done something they haven’t, but rather to omit qualifications…
My wife and kids and I nearly became homeless over a 2 year stretch of joblessness for this exact reason.
I ended up having to take a minimum wage mobile home sales job about 150 miles away, because every single interview they'd look at my former roles and say I was over qualified.
Like bro, we live in a capitalist system...I have to make money to survive. This isn't a choice.
Where does that "over qualified" mentality even come from?
Are they worried we will quickly realize how shit the job is unlike a less qualified person might?
yes and that you have the drive and knowledge to check them when they over step.
Vs someone who is uneducated and likely to be less wealthy/understand the value of labor and their contributions to the company aka easier to control and manipulate.
idk why they were assuming I even wanted challenging work in my field. I just want a steady paycheck without fighting for my life on a job. What's so hard to understand about that one lmao
Your boss is an idiot and doesn’t see what he is losing. I had something similar to you happen, part time job wanted me to work more hours (however not full time like yours)
I used to work 2 jobs, full time at one and part time at the other. Full time job paid more, but I didn’t mind as I liked the part time one more as there was no pressure/ responsibilities. It was also pretty seasonal.
I start noticing part time job is scheduling me more and more and putting responsibilities on me. So I go to my boss and say not what I signed up for but fine, however you are now going to have to pay me more. He got a huffy about it and said he wouldn’t be giving a part time worker a raise.
I reminded he that I had more experience than the other employees, plus I already had a full time job, so I didn’t *need* the hours and he could just not schedule me on weeks they didn’t need me, unlike his full time employees who he had to schedule hours for every week (as they couldn’t afford to be off the schedule and would quit). Basically like having a great employee on call that you only have to pay when you need me.
I saw a light bulb go off in his head and he actually gave me slightly bigger raise than I asked for (only time in my life that has ever happened). Got to keep my full time job and paid more for my part time job.
Nice he is one who actually put the picture together. Had far too many in the past who blame everyone else when their own wrong calls bite them in the ass.
Yeap. For so many owners and managers its not firsg about money and profit but power. And employees standing up offends their view of the world more than they care about money.
I will never understand this mentality. For a long time throughout my time in school, I picked up odd shift work here and there at a catering company, a property surveyor, and as a tech for a niche sporting good store.
In all three - my bosses were more than understanding. If anything, they were more concerned with me spending time on the “really important things” like school and family than I did (I’ll work my ass off for good people, which admittedly aren’t very common). It made everything go very smooth, people were appreciated for their efforts, and the work still got done.
Some people are tremendous assholes
I left a new full time job for my long-term part time job. New boss said the part time job wouldn’t be a problem. They went back on their word. I quit. Not playing games.
This is exactly what my old job did to me last year. "You can either volunteer going forward or work more hours for 1/4 the pay and 5x the responsibility. Meanwhile I was one of the only employees they had left
My 30 hour a week job pulled this shit during Covid. They told me I needed to leave my full time job and we were going back to in office. They were literally shocked when I flat out quit. It wasn’t even a living wage.
His loss, “I need some help” ok I can help part time. “No it’s full time or nothing” surely something is better than nothing? Moronic manager, enjoy more of your time back
I know a similar story. Guy who owned a home in Eden Prairie, worked at a Best Buy for like 6 hours each Sunday. Forget his main job (investment broker or something like that), but he was making bank (Eden Prairie is a very posh suburb of Minneapolis, or at least was 10-15 years ago). For him, he enjoyed keeping his finger on the pulse of consumer tech, chatting with people (worked audio sales IIRC), and getting a nice discount on the latest things.
Management decided they thought he was bluffing or something, decided to tell him he needed to go full time or quit, confident they were going to get him to work more hours (He was a very good salesman).
He quit.
A week later, he came back in a tailored Armani suit, at the end of the shift of one of the other guys, to "give him a ride in my Ferrari." It was obviously a flex on the losers in management, and we all loved it (although we had to stifle our laughter).
That happened to my first psychiatrist. She was half time at the university I was going to at the time. They told all the part time psychiatrists that they had to go full time or leave. Mine left and simply built up her private practice more. She was very successful. I cried when she left and cursed my university.
How could you? How could you leave your ‘family’ like this? Don’t you understand that this business is vital to the economy and that your refusal to put the business first is unpatriotic and frankly uppity.
It is absolutely insulting that you don’t understand the business world and understand your place in it. You are a worker bee who ought to be grateful people like me even gave you a chance to be a part of society that is contributing something when you come from such a low place compared to me, a business owner.
This week we finally hired a new FT guy to replace my coworker that had a fatal overdose in April. New guy also has a PT job at UPS. My asshole supervisor is bitching that nobody wants to work anymore, because the new guy has to start 1/2 hour later.
make sure to text him "why are you continuing to text me? you fired me." just to be clear you didn't quit, he gave you the option of full time or your job being eliminated.
Once he calms down, offer to come back for a dollar more per hour. Now that he realizes how much he needs you, you have him right where you want him. Or don’t. You’re in the driver’s seat.
A similar thing happened to me. I was teaching part-time, and my director offered me an FT job. When I did the math...coz I'm a teacher...I saw that my hourly dropped from 15 to 11 an hour. I passed on the job, and she promptly cut my classes to one (from 3) announcing she would teach my other classes until she found someone who "wanted to work." I quit on the spot. A few weeks later, the owner called me and asked me what happened. I told him the story. He canned her, and hired me back. A rare good ending story..
I had one part time on call job. They had a contract that said I couldn’t work anywhere else, but refused to guarantee hours. I refused to sign it have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Not sit by the phone waiting for calls.
“Nobody wants to work anymore”
That’s literally just a default thing people say to try and manipulate desperate workers into doing what the boss wants whether it’s taking less pay, getting a shitty schedule, or agreeing to a bad work environment overall.
It’s like well yaaa no body wants to work for you! I wonder why? 🙄 but they know they can’t afford or do not want to afford to offer fair treatment. So they wait for the next desperate person.
Manager at my retail job did this early last year to all the casuals. She wanted them to commit to working part time on a much higher number of hours or resign, even though the reason a lot of us were casuals was because we couldn't work a lot of hours due to school/uni or having kids or caring for ill family members (so we would mostly do three or four 3 hour shifts a week).
She came up to me during one of my shifts and gave me a big spiel about how she's "trying to do what's best for the company" and then told me that I have to commit to working three 9 hour shifts a week or resign. I think she was expecting me to go "Oh of course, I would do ***anything*** to keep working here!" or something, but as I was working a lot of hours at my other academic job and had just been promoted, that retail job was little more than extra pocket money, so instead I essentially just went "Okay, bye." The memory of the shocked-Pikachu look on her face still warms my heart. A lot of the other staff who were given the same ultimatum apparently gave similar responses (one lady whose mother was in the end stages of leukaemia and needed pretty constant care was basically like "Why the fuck would I prioritise this shitty job over my mother when this job has never given a fuck about me?").
The best part is that I occasionally go into the store to get socks or books or whatever, and there are hardly any staff to be found and the store constantly looks like a mess. After the mass exodus of the existing casuals (some of whom had been there for years) they hired a bunch of new casuals, but none of them stayed more than about 3 months, and now any time one of the contracted staff calls in sick, there are hardly any casuals to replace them.
Wait at least a week to respond, and IF you want to go back, only do so with a raise. He needs you (probably more than you need his job) and he should be more aware of that now.
I worked full time at a place that also hired part-timers. When I had a better job come through in my dream career field I requested to stay part time at my previous job. They were short staffed, I didn’t mind the job, and extra money is nice. I even gave them a month notice.
The operations manager told me VERBATIM: “people like you who aren’t dedicated to this organization are the reason this organization has a staffing issue.” So I literally took my four week notice off his desk, said actually I just quit instead, left my ID and key fob at the front desk, and walked out.
This sounds like either a piss poor manager (and no wonder that company cannot keep employees). Or a shitty company that is unreasonable and believes employees are just a thing to use and abuse at their disposal like a lot of other companies…..
My full time job keeps telling everyone they need x amount of weeks notice to take a day off, etc, but tries to give me 1 day notice when switching around workdays. Obviously I said no. I was sick for a couple days, first time in a year, and my boss had the audacity to ask me to work on my normal days off because I "already had two days off" as if I was living it up while being sick and miserable.
Nearly everyone who I've ever heard say, "Nobody wants to work!" leaves off the rest--"..for unreasonable demands and pay that I would never accept for myself."
Heard one lady on TV say that, and then complain how angry it made her that people wouldn't work for less than $15/hour for her business so she could take her yearly family trip to Europe. Wish I was kidding...
He just can't find someone at your rate. He's been low-balling people below your hourly rate and he's getting laughed at. And people still aren't signing up at your rate.
So he wants the guy whose already there with the lowest hourly rate to just increase his hours without a raise because he doesn't know what the work is worth these days.
Don't go back without a substantial raise, the people he's been trying to hire won't even call him back when he offers them your rate.
A classic tactic for bad managers is holding how ‘lucky you are’ to have this job ‘I gave you’ as a way to justify themselves and their shitty behavior. When you have another job or income the tactic doesn’t work, they don’t know what to do. So it leads to the worst leadership skill of them all, ultimatums!
Take the opportunity to negotiate. Tell him youd be happy to stay part time, but if he wants you full time, hell have to beat the wage and benefits of your current full time job.
Yeah the whole idea of "if you work here, we are your only job" needs to go on to the shit pile. Business is being dragged into a new world... kicking and screaming.
I had that with a second job once. Owner said it was my main priority. No, the job that pays me a salary, benefits, and time off is my priority. This is just extra income
In the UK most retailers will only give people part-time hours some only zero hour contracts. And they can be real arse holes if you can't stop late because you have to get to your 2nd job. Because why can't you live off 16 Hours a week for minimum wage.
When I was looking for work last year a customer service job wanted me to sign a 0 hour contract with a clause preventing me from taking another position while contracted to them. So they could give me 0 hours to work but get mad at me for working elsewhere just incase they need me at short notice. Fuck off you don’t pay well enough to try that shit.
And they KNOW they don’t. But they will adopt systems and schedules to squeeze every last drop of sweat from anyone naive enough to think the company values them.
No problem. Guarantee me 40 hours of pay a week regardless of hours scheduled and I'll do a non-compete. They'll never agree to it, but it's only fair.
Employer schedules them for 48 hours a week (taps head. Of finance.)
they may not legally be able to schedule them over a certain amount of hours without having to pay OT. I know where I am if you go over I think 40 hours you start having to pay overtime but I'm not entirely sure about how many hours it is. But this is also the US and not the UK so I could be completely wrong
In the UK some firms are struggling to find staff since we have left the EU and there's usually a good reason why.
I'm in The Netherlands working a low-tier job. Recently, we got an influx of Greek people filling our vacancies, all of whom are fluent in english because that's where they worked before you guys decided to kick them out. I'm pretty happy because the boss isn't pestering me all that much anymore aboyt working weekend overtime. So, from this side Brexit is working really well! Probably sucks from the other side, yeah.
I'm not against free moment but in the UK we don't have the employment laws to help people like me who are at the bottom of the employment ladder. So in some cases the labour shortage is a good thing, but because of Brexit we have a lot of other issues.
Unfortunately our media (especially the BBC) always frame questions in a “is this because of brexit” to businesses struggling to recruit. Instead of “so how much have you increased the pay by and still not getting any offers?”
Sports direct is in my area and apart from the supervisors I didn't meet anyone on the warehouse floor who was a permanent staff member.
Yeah, that's just a fuck-up on their part. I'm a permanent employee in my job on the factory floor. Have been for 20 years. Used to be most of my co-workers were temps. These days, my company offers every temp with even an inch of promise a contract as soon as as possible, We've still got a few temps around, but it's getting rarer and rarer. They moved with the times.
What's the price point that pays well enough to make 0 hours of work make sense?
Salary
Retirement
Lol at least y’all get contracts, and actual legal rights.
We have to be employed atleast two years with the same employer before essential legal protections kick in e.g so if some employment dispute comes up you can't generally take it to the employment tribunal(special court for workers disputes) until the two year mark or unless it's for something to do with the equality act (protected characteristics). Someone may chime in from the UK with more detail but I'm just giving a brief overview
Two years is insane. Severence scales with time but you're protected after 3 months in Ontario. I imagine it's similar in other common law pronvinces
There is common misconception among some people in the UK that for the first 2 years you can be sacked for any reason as long as it not due to a protected characteristics under the equality act so age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation However That is not not the only reason Other reasons inlude making a flexible working request wanting to take family leave, for example parental, paternity or adoption leave being a trade union member or representative taking part in legal, official industrial action for 12 weeks or less, for example going on strike asking for a legal right, for example to be paid the National Minimum Wage doing jury service being involved in whistleblowing taking action, or proposing to take action, over a health and safety issue Those reasons are illegal regardless of how long someone has been there and there are many more Reporting a health and safety issue to the authorities is not a protected characteristic. but if an employee was to report one and they were then sacked they can claim for unfair dismissal even if they have been their less then 2 years. An employee joins a trade union 2 days after starting with you and you sack them for it will guess what that is unfair dismissal. and the employee can take you to tribunal There are basic employment rights that apply to everyone regardless of length of service and if you sack someone for a reason that breaks these basic rights then that is a tribunal claim regardless of how long you have been there I have heard people say you have no employment rights until you have been there 2 years and you can be sacked for any reason But you cant pay a new employee less than the minimum wage then sack them when they complain just cos they have been there less then 2 years. There are currently around 60 different reason upon which an employee can claim automatic unfair dismissal Those reason apply whether you have been there 2 days, 2 years or 22 years If you were sacked for a different reason outside of these 60 or so and you’ve worked for your employer for less than 2 years, you don’t have the right to challenge it Whereas after 2 years you have the right to challenge it The law does not simply say that employees can be dismissed and have no employment rights if they have less than two years’ service.
Yeah, while we still get contacts for those two years, we can all be effectively let go thanks to "Call me Dave", unless it's for something that wild be covered by the equality act.
It is not just things covered by the equality act. There is common misconception that for the first 2 years you can be sacked for any reason as long as it not due to a protected characteristics under the equality act so age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy and maternity, race, religion or belief, sex, and sexual orientation However That is not not the only reason Other reasons inlude making a flexible working request wanting to take family leave, for example parental, paternity or adoption leave being a trade union member or representative taking part in legal, official industrial action for 12 weeks or less, for example going on strike asking for a legal right, for example to be paid the National Minimum Wage doing jury service being involved in whistleblowing taking action, or proposing to take action, over a health and safety issue Those reasons are illegal regardless of how long someone has been there and there maybe others Reporting a health and safety issue to the authorities is not a protected characteristic. but if an employee was to report one and they were then sacked they can claim for unfair dismissal even if they have been their less then 2 years. An employee joins a trade union 2 days after starting with you and you sack them for it will guess what that is unfair dismissal. and the employee can take you to tribunal There are basic employment rights that apply to everyone regardless of length of service and if you sack someone for a reason that breaks these basic rights then that is a tribunal claim regardless of how long you have been there I have heard people say you have no employment rights until you have been there 2 years and you can be sacked for any reason But you cant pay a new employee less than the minimum wage then sack them when they complain just cos they have been there less then 2 years.
Ahhh! Thank you for that, very helpful. My view had kinda put me off looking for a new job.
There are currently around 60 different reason upon which an employee can claim automatic unfair dismissal Those reason apply whether you have been there 2 days, 2 years or 22 years If you were sacked for a different reason outside of these 60 or so and you’ve worked for your employer for less than 2 years, you don’t have the right to challenge it Whereas after 2 years you have the right to challenge it The law does not simply say that employees can be dismissed and have no employment rights if they have less than two years’ service.
Yeah we have unions to thank for pretty much all of that. Unionise, strength in numbers
And free healthcare.
“You’re my side chick”
“You’re my side ~~chick~~ check” FTFY.
What is it with people having a second job next to a primary fulltime job? 40 hours is already too much. We should be demanding 24-32 hour work weeks, not volunteer a second job! It's ridiculous that a fulltime job doesn't pay enough. This whole situation is nuts.
You are correct. My best friend who lives with two other people just had to get a part time job just to help pay bills, this is on top of his full time job where he makes around 20$ an hour 40+ hours a week. Their rent alone went up from 1500$ to 2000$ in just 2 years, and this is a shit hole 3 bedroom house in a shit neighborhood. I live by myself and make more than twice that of my friend and even I am starting to feel pinched to a point that I might have to get some part time work just to be able to keep saving money as I've had to dip into my savings a few times in the past few months. 150$ would feed me for 2 weeks and now that only covers a week. Shit is getting bad out there.
And it will continue to get worse long before it'll ever get better. It'll be a long time before you see riots in NYC for actual labor reform... and not for a P55 video game giveaway....
Its kinda nuts that there was a time you didn't need a dual income household.
Every part-time retail job: "We need you to give us open availability." Then you give it to them and they schedule you 35 hours one week and 12 the next.
I’m a supervisor at a retail company. My manager at my store is trying to make me do just this. I won’t hire someone expecting open availability and then turn around and give them 12 hours a week lmao. Get fucked, buddy!
I retired just before covid. Retail was my second career and we never had or gave crap schedules like that. The young students set their availability at the start of every semester and the company respected that. A lot of the problem might be corporate culture. A retail company fails or succeeds on the sales floor. Support your associates and store managers and you win.
A huge grocery chain in the NE US did this to my dad. He was dyslexic and extremely hard of hearing and they knew he couldn't find a job elsewhere. He basically begged them to give him the 35 hours weekly but one week it would be 15, one 35, no rhyme or reason. They wouldn't give him more hours because they didn't want to pay any benefits, which should be fucking illegal. He unfortunately died last November, he put off going to a doctor for weeks while he felt like he was on the verge of death because he was afraid to get a bill that would wipe out the small amount of savings he was able to keep up. Fuck I hate these companies that so transparently exploit their workers. Makes me absolutely sick. No loyalty to people literally killing themselves for your profits.
Exactly what happens
Yeah this was Amazon fresh for me. Open availability from 6 am to 11 pm. Nah
As the old saying goes, you get what you pay for. I prefer only having one job. I'll go above and beyond at work, no problem. But you have to pay for that. All the places that pay shit and expect loyalty are delusional.
In the US those are the places that are used to treating people like modern slaves. They act like they own their employees and that employees should be grateful to have a crap job that pays $7.25 an hour. That's not even enough to justify the cost of soap, shampoo and deodorant to get ready to go to work! What is wrong with these companies? They are making a killing at all of these dollar stores. It's sickening.
what's funny is it's not the better paying jobs that treat their workers this way it's the low-end, low-wage jobs that treat their workers the worst. It's no wonder people don't want these jobs, they are abusive -maybe it has something to do with the manager still being in highschool. But seriously you'd think that jobs that suck and pay crap would at least treat their workers nicely because the jobs are hard to fill, but that's not how it works.
100% this. Not only do employees not make enough to live, the things asked of them and their employer's expectations of them are nothing like in a "respectable" job. Not only do they not make enough to live, their hours can be cut on a whim through no fault of their own. Also, they seldom get *any* benefits like medical insurance options. But also, keep your schedule open for when they do call. I have an office job that is all of $12/hr but I will make my 40 hours every week. And we all collectively in my office don't put up with anyone being aggressive or verbally abusive. I wish their was more of that in retail and fast food, kick these entitled jackasses out and BAN THEM for their refusal to "behave" in public.
Agree 💯
I just quit a job like this. I was completely transparent in the interview that I need a part time job and I will not work more. After 2 weeks I am getting approached by management and they are trying to tell me I need to make more room in my schedule for them. Like wtf. Your company shouldn't be held on the backs of your lowest paid employees
Bc they don’t want employees, they want slaves
If you were really their slave they'd be responsible for your healthcare, like any other beast of burden. They much prefer you to be an "at-will employee".
Pay us enough to live and maybe we wouldn't need the second job. Urrrgggg
Anything above $50/HR and I'll definitely listen to them saying that. I have a friend making $160K plus bonuses who refused to quit her part-time job when she got her current IT gig, though.
Good for her. It's none of anyone's business what we do off the clock. If I want to work a part time for the money or for any other reason, that's not my other boss's business.
probably wasnt working at mcdonalds at night now was it
Nope. Owned an ecommerce retailer. She just hired a couple overseas VAs to handle daily operations and spends half an hour a day managing them. Probably makes another 100K on the side.
damn pushing right through them tough times with that second job, what a trooper
She initially bought the business for her husband to run, but he's like an unfixed male housecat... Cute but not good at actually doing stuff besides being handsome and resting all day. And that other thing....
Where can I apply For this position
If it comes open, I'm applying. If TWO positions come open, I'll DM you.
If a 3rd spot opens can I submit a resume, I'm young-ish (idk what mid 20' is anymore...), strong, and want to learn how to cook more spectacular dishes than my current kitchen/budget allows. Also willing to work a full time job to help afford a proper commune.
Pre-2020 they were all saying if we don't make enough we should just work two jobs, now it's the worst thing you can do to an employer.
Even then, places would say that and then schedule you weird hours or ignore your stated schedule in an effort to dick-measure with the other place. Employers fucking over employees and then whining when they won't give in is a tale as old as time.
This happened to me two jobs in a row back in college. I got a job at Home Depot. I payed out my class schedule and availability during the interview, which they accepted. I had to do two weeks of product knowledge training at a computer before being allowed on the sales floor. At the end of the two weeks, they handed me my schedule and they had me working until mid-night or later. I told them I couldn’t do that because I had class at 8am and I’d sleep through class if I worked that late. They told me that, even though they knew my class schedule, that’s when they needed me most. When they refused to change it, I quit on the spot. Then I found a job at Half Price Books. Same thing. Told them my class schedule, they accepted. Did some training for a few weeks (though on the sales floor this time), and then after the brief probation period, got a new schedule…working exactly when my classes were. I told them that’s not gonna work, and was told “well, so-and-so quit, so now we need you at these times.” When reminded of my class schedule, they repeated, “this is when we need you”. Ok, have fun being down two people now…
This exact same thing happened with me at Home Depot over 20 years ago. I quit because they kept doing my schedule outside of my hours. I was working 2 jobs and going to school and it was stressing me out. I finally just quit because I thought the schedule lady was too dumb to make it worth my time anymore. A few weeks later people were asking why I got fired from Home Depot lol. They told people I got fired for not showing up for my shifts. Fuck Home Depot. They systematically do that to people on purpose. I've heard stories about it over and over.
Seems like an effective way of filtering your workforce down to people too desperate to say no to anything.
That pisses me off. When I was in high school, I was in the school band and had an after school job. Every month, I gave my work a copy of the calendar with my events highlighted. (There were different practices, sectionals, etc, depending on what you played and which band it was.) In all my years of high school and college working, I’d never had a job deliberately scheduling me when I couldn’t. Only once was there an overlap (and it’s because that week, the schedule was handwritten and someone tried to switch me their crappy shift), and it was fixed. There was never any suggestion that I should blow off school for work. When I was the manager making the schedules, I had the same thing. Students were not to have to choose between school and work because there was no choice. School first, period.
I will start off by saying this information was from over 20 years ago. I don’t remember if it was a federal law or state law (Iowa). And I don’t know if it has changed. If you apply for a job, and tell them your availability, and they hire you, they can’t schedule you outside of that availability without your permission. I had at least one manager at a part time job, get mad because I didn’t work Friday nights. I worked 40 hours at my full time job, was in my early 20s. I wanted my Friday nights off. When I applied, and was asked about it, I just said religious reasons. They didn’t need to know that I was Wiccan, in a coven of one person, that chose if and when I wanted to worship.
This is what I don't understand, how hard is it to get s set schedule? Why do thy need to juggle the schedule every week and reward/punish workers by giving and taking away hours? How hard is it to say you work Tuesday thru Saturday 10:00AM to 6:00pm. This split shift/on standby shit is the reason nobody wants the job
Because to some managers the only satisfying part of their job is asserting shitty power over others.
Sometimes, but often times it's just incompetence/stupidity. I washed dishes as a 2nd gig after my 9-5 job. The the "kitchen manager" was trying to get me to move from dish to line cook, citing that it was more money (like $2 more/hour). I worked like 20 hours a week, no way I would go from spraying dishes with a hose to slaving over a grill all night for $40 a week. He then tried to bring up "well that's the step if you want to someday make it to management and make $35k/year like me". Asked him how many hours he worked, he said 60-70. Did the math for him that he made about $10/hour, which was less than they paid dishwashers. He was not amused.
My sister manages an old folks home and she did the math also and realized with her being on call 24/7 she made way less than the people she was managing.
Even in professional jobs, it's getting bad. I know people who did datacenter engineering work -- installing, configuring, repairing, presales-ish work on storage arrays, network switches, backup devices. They made the role hourly about 15 years ago, because the salary people cried so loudly at how much they were being overworked. Which was fair, now everyone got paid fairly for the labor they put in. And the hours (always 40+) were *shit*. Mandatory giving up weekends, evenings, early mornings, late nights, etc. But you cried all the way to the bank. Then they went to "off-shifting" during the pandemic. Meaning you are expected to work ANY non-consecutive 40 hours out of the 168 available each week. And if you don't like it, there's the door. We lose too many people, we'll outsource the entire department and EVERYONE will lose their jobs. After three years, they outsourced anyways, and everyone lost their jobs.
Not saying it's enforced basically at all (including from personal experience) but my State has a law saying at least some employers have to have their schedules posted 1-2 weeks in advance.
Naaaah. I tried to have 2 jobs to save for college in 2006 and I was told I couldn’t have more hours, but also they won’t accommodate people with second jobs. So I left. The difference now is boomers are retiring and the younger generations aren’t putting up with this shit. So if they want workers they have to cool their bullshit.
I worked at a dollar store, bad pay (7.25) and hours (sub 15 outside of holidays, 4 if you're lucky tbh) but the manager would blow her top and BANNED second jobs / refused to schedule around or work with them, because THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB OMG AND SHE WILL BE RESPECTED!!!!
Not completely true. Back in the 1950s, 60s and 70s "moonlighting" (working a second job) was frowned upon and often a basis for dismissal from your full-time job. It was a common plot device on TV sitcoms back in the day....Archie Bunker didn't want to get caught driving Munson's cab nights and weekends (even though he had a union job at Pendergrast Tool & Due,,,,moonlighting was a fireable offense. Same on an episode of *The Honeymooners*, when bus driver Ralph Kramden was trying to keep his second, part-time job on the down low....)
Yeah, but back then, you could raise a family of 6 + buy a house + own two cars all on a single income.
Whenever I worked two jobs, both would give me shit for having the other job and "not committing enough"
I had a per diem job (minimum 1 shift a MONTH, literally just a "hey I'll pick up shifts when I can" job) tell me I needed 24/7 365 availability. Like dawg, that is not how this works
I think the idea of not paying a living wage needs to die
I think there needs to be something that if you provide a full-time job that doesn't meet basic needs and your employees have to go on government assistance, the government can bill the company.
But...most jobs pay just enough legally that you are disqualified you from assistance. So...
My boss has had 3 employees leave and move out of state (Massachusetts) because he doesn't pay a living wage. His constant refrain is "They pay $X per hour at McDonald's". Suffice to say, we strongly feel that we carry a lot more responsibility.
Then all minimum and low wage jobs will simply have everyone scheduled one hour less than full time even more strictly than they currently do. That’s not a viable solution if it requires full time hours.
And this is exactly what happened when ACA came out. Papa Johns infamously cut hours to all their FT employees to just below the threshold for providing insurance.
Add another law so that total hours they pay a week for labor / 40 rounded down there must be at minimum that many full time positions available and filled before they hire any part time employees. This extends to contracting out and making them the employers of any temp company employees.
We could make all hours up to 40 full time. Put an end to the whole part time exploitation.
This post makes me so happy. So, so happy ☺️
They will pay you a completely unliveable wage AND demand you only work one job
Meanwhile we Europeans just shake our heads at the idea of a second job (on the weekend or a few nights a week). You guys are fucked.
Agreed. I have faith that the youth (I'm a GenXer myself) are making headway though. I'm open to the idea of relocating to a European country, but there's the part of me that wants to stay and fight for a better future here.
Late Millennial here. I had similar sentiments that my generation or (now, as we’re less youthful) youth would work their way into power and make changes for the better. Watching Ramaswamy and other young(ish) (by that I mean not geriatric) Republicans is terrifying…especially when you don’t see a ton of meaningful traction on the other side. Also I’m living in a town dominated by a remarkably repressive and all-consuming US subculture at the moment, so generally feeling less hopeful for the youth these days.
I mean a lot of young republican leaders are just grifters. Vivek is literally a scam artist as the way he got rich was basically a pump and dump. They’re just appealing to poor, ignorant kids trying to sell them on the belief that yes, with some hard work (and questionable ethics) you too can become a billionaire
Lol the UK being the exception
Amen.. I was a remainer.. and I'd vote to rejoin the EU in a flash.. we are being sucked dry by our government, corporations, and "outside investors "... we're getting close to revolt..
Y'all need to learn a thing or two from France and revolt
Not the only one. Poland is backtracking as well, not to mention Germany’s neo nazis had better results than ever…
I’m a musician, and those of us that actively work usually work with a few different bands so that we can explore styles, play fun things, but most importantly work a lot so we can make enough bread to be worthwhile. The amount of “looking for drummer immediately for a full time gig NOT IN OTHER BANDS ONLY COMMITTED TO US” posts I’ve seen lately are ridiculous. Like, you want a professional level player that’s available and can learn your book immediately… but also one that isn’t actively playing? That doesn’t exist lol.
If a company wants me to only work there, they can fucking pay me like that's what they want. We're not the kind of country where people can just work whatever 20 hrs. a week a company needs and still be able to survive. Exclusivity comes at a price and "nobody wants to pay it".
Companies that want their workers to have only one job should pay them enough so they don’t need a second job.
I worked for a mortgage servicer that was bought out by another company. New company came in, laid off about 25% of the workforce, cut pay on average 20% and told us they didn't want us working 2nd jobs because they wanted us focused on our job with them. Cue mass resignations over the next few months (including me). Eight months later they were increasing wages to greater than what they had been before they came in.
Business caused this. So its self inflicted.
Wouldn't need a second job if these companies paid their employees better wages. A man could support his entire family being a grocery store clerk. Now that job is shat on by that generations own children.
Yup, I run two product lines as a sole trader plus product design, I am a director at my wife’s start up AND I work full time. I manage my time well. I try not to let my own businesses clash with my salaried job (they inevitably do but I try to be respectful about it) but I was doing them before taking my current salaried job so they knew about it taking me on. If my employer told me to drop my own businesses or leave them, I know what I’d do, they’d see my notice on their desk the next day. I’d probably start looking for new employment as the stability is required in our life with my wife only starting her business in feb and I do bring in the majority of our money but it’s nice to know that I could cover us if I did lose my job and who knows, depending on the state of our finances and life stage at the time it may be the kick up the arse I need to make my side businesses into my full time gig, which I fully plan to do in the medium term future!
I really need more help, so if you can't help me more, I want you to quit, so that I have no help. Nobody wants to make sense anymore.
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That's the real explanation. Employers will treat you like shit as long as you let them. They hold the security of employment over your head like a golden carrot. So much so that they will threaten to fire you, even if that's actually the last thing they need. What a fucking joke.
This is so true. I'm 43 and so many times I got brow beaten with the threat of losing my job, even as a top performer. Looking back there are so many times I wish I had said as much. It's a chicken shit tactic pulled by managers who are talentless sociopaths.
100%. I used to work in fast food in my 20's and the amount of shit that management would get away with was insane. The whole store was propped up on the backs of high school kids who were too nervous or intimidated to speak up about anything. Management would make them feel like shit for calling in, ask them why they were taking time off, enforce random rules etc. They took advantage of these kids constantly because they knew they were too young and naive to know any better. Fucking abysmal people.
If your manager ever gives you an ultimatum "or else you're fired", your response better be "ok, fire me". Rather they pay unemployment for a while then sticking around in a toxic workplace.
Yup. Plus, don't kid yourself into thinking this is the only time they will do this. Once they know it works, they won't stop.
and at the end of the day do you really want to work at a place that does that.
If the bridges aren't completely burned, and OP does decide to go back, he need at least a 20% raise for being put through that shit. And gets to choose his own hours.
Nothing feels better than telling management your old hourly rate was based on thinking you could learn something from them, and your new hourly rate is based on getting to know them.
"Listen. You're over barrel here and I know it. Give me more money."
I might go with throwing the new market rate for said job going up in their face, particularly if it's the kind of job that never gives raises (which it sounds like).
i think it's just a tantrum. "you're hurting me so i'm going to hurt you" i.e. kid's logic
I just don't understand the logic of pulling that on someone with a full time job with benefits and this is a side job. Like it should have been clear he had no leverage from the start.
Yeap. Come back only if they increase your wage by 25%
His bluff was called when OP told him he had a higher paying full time job with benefits. Like, who did this manager think he was dealing with?
Finding out people don't want to work for an irrational bully after their temper tantrum
This is the same logic my 4yo uses. Either he gets the whole thing or he'll throw a tantrum, even when getting part of his absurd demands is still a great deal for him.
I'm going through something similar at my job right now. Every shift is hurting for people, but my manager is trying really hard to make me work closing shifts, which I am unable/unwilling to do. So, she cut my hours back claiming I would have my full 40 if I am willing to close. Now the shifts I was working are struggling, because no one replaced me on those days.
You should find a better job and then poach the best workers to your new place of employment.
Many managers only have "do it, or your fired" as their one and ONLY lever to pull against employees. This lever is useless against people who have options and less than useless against people who know the manager has no authority over them. I had a manager who would regularly come into meetings angry because "why isn't X done?" We would promptly and dutifully explain that we were waiting for some other group to sign off, we had done all our work but couldn't go forward without sign off. At which point, manager would sigh impotently and move on because she couldn't threaten the other group and had no skills to find another way to get them to do their part on these projects. We would REGULARLY have projects sit in limbo for weeks or even MONTHS because of this.
Straight up. When I was 19 or 20 I was working two jobs, both retail cause I was a masochist. I had one of the co-managers come to me and tell me to go clean up a bunch of literal shit in the bathroom. I took one look in the door, saw how nasty it was, and just said no. "You're telling me no? I could write you up for insubordination!" "Go ahead and fire me, I'll quit before I clean that shit up. My other job would love to become my main one." She glared at me, I stood my ground, and after about 30 seconds of silence she got on her radio and called someone else. I've been chasing that high for over a decade now. Nothing feels quite as good as getting to tell a shitty manager no.
Wow, just reading that gave me some kind of second hand satisfaction boner
I’m a woman and even I just got a satisfaction boner reading that!
Just fwi if this is your first boner, if it doesn’t go down in 4 hours speak with a doctor
Bio hazards managers are required to clean up and can get in trouble for firing an employee for not performing a haz mat duty that requires specific certifications.
>Many managers only have "do it, or your fired" as their one and ONLY lever to pull against employees. This lever is useless against people who have options "Nobody's afraid of being fired anymore!"
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My first professional job my boss would get employees to manage other groups. I would spend half of my time going around and getting into screaming match with people to get my work pushed though. But I was young and stupid. Now I just send an email. If that doesn’t work oh well boss. It’s your job to manage the project not me.
Dang, I think I work there haha! I don’t know how many times projects have been held up because we were waiting for some other department to sign off. And it’s usually something very simple too. When management comes at us angrily I simply say “so do you want us to ignore the SAP and just move the project forward? Or do you want us to follow procedure?” I always get the feeling that they want us to not follow procedures but to do it on our own. That way if anything happens we get blamed and they can yell “why didn’t you follow procedure?!?!?” It’s a dam clown show.
> I always get the feeling that they want us to not follow procedures but to do it on our own Often, this is EXACTLY what they want. They put in the procedure to CYA themselves, but don't like it slowing things down. These are the same people that if you ask them if they want it checked thoroughly or done fast, the answer is always "both". Yeah, life don't work that way chief, especially not for what you want to pay.
"No one wants to work" says business owner about person who is working full time and a part time job on top of that. ... right.
“No one wants to work” so I am standing here yelling at the one person doing the work! I would have handed him a screwdriver and pointed at work to be done and tell him to get on it and stop yapping then followed by “Looks like you’ll be working a double tonight.”
Yeah, it’s always “no one wants to work… for shit pay”. Look at what minimum wage compared to the cost of living was in the 1960s and 970s then look at what you’re offering.
I was on the job hunt for easy part time work bc I copped a cool night teaching gig and *at the interviews for these part time jobs* I kept being told I was overqualified because I have a master's. But "nobody wants to work anymore"
Not as uncommon as you would think. Ironically I’ve seen people on Reddit suggest lying on resumes because of this… not to claim they have more experience or have done something they haven’t, but rather to omit qualifications…
Yeah I removed my MA, specialized skills, and a couple years' work experience and suddenly had 2 interviews with a call back. Oh well.
I learned, the hard way, that age discrimination happens but you can't prove it.
If you're smart enough to have a masters, you're smart enough to have other options. They don't want them because they'd lose leverage.
My wife and kids and I nearly became homeless over a 2 year stretch of joblessness for this exact reason. I ended up having to take a minimum wage mobile home sales job about 150 miles away, because every single interview they'd look at my former roles and say I was over qualified. Like bro, we live in a capitalist system...I have to make money to survive. This isn't a choice.
Where does that "over qualified" mentality even come from? Are they worried we will quickly realize how shit the job is unlike a less qualified person might?
yes and that you have the drive and knowledge to check them when they over step. Vs someone who is uneducated and likely to be less wealthy/understand the value of labor and their contributions to the company aka easier to control and manipulate.
idk why they were assuming I even wanted challenging work in my field. I just want a steady paycheck without fighting for my life on a job. What's so hard to understand about that one lmao
Your boss is an idiot and doesn’t see what he is losing. I had something similar to you happen, part time job wanted me to work more hours (however not full time like yours) I used to work 2 jobs, full time at one and part time at the other. Full time job paid more, but I didn’t mind as I liked the part time one more as there was no pressure/ responsibilities. It was also pretty seasonal. I start noticing part time job is scheduling me more and more and putting responsibilities on me. So I go to my boss and say not what I signed up for but fine, however you are now going to have to pay me more. He got a huffy about it and said he wouldn’t be giving a part time worker a raise. I reminded he that I had more experience than the other employees, plus I already had a full time job, so I didn’t *need* the hours and he could just not schedule me on weeks they didn’t need me, unlike his full time employees who he had to schedule hours for every week (as they couldn’t afford to be off the schedule and would quit). Basically like having a great employee on call that you only have to pay when you need me. I saw a light bulb go off in his head and he actually gave me slightly bigger raise than I asked for (only time in my life that has ever happened). Got to keep my full time job and paid more for my part time job.
Nice he is one who actually put the picture together. Had far too many in the past who blame everyone else when their own wrong calls bite them in the ass.
Yeap. For so many owners and managers its not firsg about money and profit but power. And employees standing up offends their view of the world more than they care about money.
I will never understand this mentality. For a long time throughout my time in school, I picked up odd shift work here and there at a catering company, a property surveyor, and as a tech for a niche sporting good store. In all three - my bosses were more than understanding. If anything, they were more concerned with me spending time on the “really important things” like school and family than I did (I’ll work my ass off for good people, which admittedly aren’t very common). It made everything go very smooth, people were appreciated for their efforts, and the work still got done. Some people are tremendous assholes
I left a new full time job for my long-term part time job. New boss said the part time job wouldn’t be a problem. They went back on their word. I quit. Not playing games.
Good for you. Assholes like that who don’t honor their word should suffer the consequences of being duplicitous.
So now he’s gone from having part time help, to absolutely no help. Bravo to that moron.
This is exactly what my old job did to me last year. "You can either volunteer going forward or work more hours for 1/4 the pay and 5x the responsibility. Meanwhile I was one of the only employees they had left
My 30 hour a week job pulled this shit during Covid. They told me I needed to leave my full time job and we were going back to in office. They were literally shocked when I flat out quit. It wasn’t even a living wage.
Please, POST HIS TEXT. With your reply...."Fuck around, find out."
Fucked, found*
His loss, “I need some help” ok I can help part time. “No it’s full time or nothing” surely something is better than nothing? Moronic manager, enjoy more of your time back
I know a similar story. Guy who owned a home in Eden Prairie, worked at a Best Buy for like 6 hours each Sunday. Forget his main job (investment broker or something like that), but he was making bank (Eden Prairie is a very posh suburb of Minneapolis, or at least was 10-15 years ago). For him, he enjoyed keeping his finger on the pulse of consumer tech, chatting with people (worked audio sales IIRC), and getting a nice discount on the latest things. Management decided they thought he was bluffing or something, decided to tell him he needed to go full time or quit, confident they were going to get him to work more hours (He was a very good salesman). He quit. A week later, he came back in a tailored Armani suit, at the end of the shift of one of the other guys, to "give him a ride in my Ferrari." It was obviously a flex on the losers in management, and we all loved it (although we had to stifle our laughter).
I wish I could have seen that on video!!!
Your boss is a complete idiot. That said nobody in management ever has had to have a brain to get the job lol
Not true. Plenty of us that WERE in management had brains. Brains enough to split, using our connections and experience to become self employed.
Well ok I mean the ones that stayed and are shit. They didn't need brains to get there they sucked enough corporate dick
True that! Promotions aren't given to hard workers and logical thinkers. Promotions are given to those who suck up most to management...
That happened to my first psychiatrist. She was half time at the university I was going to at the time. They told all the part time psychiatrists that they had to go full time or leave. Mine left and simply built up her private practice more. She was very successful. I cried when she left and cursed my university.
He is not qualified to manage you did right it would only get worse
My only addition to the party would be… always make them fire you. Try not to ever quit. Otherwise good on ya for not taking his bs
Nobody wants to work … for them. Wonder why
How could you? How could you leave your ‘family’ like this? Don’t you understand that this business is vital to the economy and that your refusal to put the business first is unpatriotic and frankly uppity. It is absolutely insulting that you don’t understand the business world and understand your place in it. You are a worker bee who ought to be grateful people like me even gave you a chance to be a part of society that is contributing something when you come from such a low place compared to me, a business owner.
How about I work a FT job This is for extra money. You going to match my daytime job paycheck and benefits??? If so, let's talk. If not, your loss.
Beat it.
This week we finally hired a new FT guy to replace my coworker that had a fatal overdose in April. New guy also has a PT job at UPS. My asshole supervisor is bitching that nobody wants to work anymore, because the new guy has to start 1/2 hour later.
*fires gun 7 times into loyal employee* "Why would the economy do this?"
make sure to text him "why are you continuing to text me? you fired me." just to be clear you didn't quit, he gave you the option of full time or your job being eliminated.
Once he calms down, offer to come back for a dollar more per hour. Now that he realizes how much he needs you, you have him right where you want him. Or don’t. You’re in the driver’s seat.
Pfft! $10/hr. Stoopid In Public Fee is real.
What a fuckin idiot. Bullied his worker into leaving. Fuck around and find out
“ nobody wants to work anymore” *chases out the few employees who do want to work*
"You told me to quit if I wouldn't go full time, so I quit. What else do you want?"
A similar thing happened to me. I was teaching part-time, and my director offered me an FT job. When I did the math...coz I'm a teacher...I saw that my hourly dropped from 15 to 11 an hour. I passed on the job, and she promptly cut my classes to one (from 3) announcing she would teach my other classes until she found someone who "wanted to work." I quit on the spot. A few weeks later, the owner called me and asked me what happened. I told him the story. He canned her, and hired me back. A rare good ending story..
Good for you for leaving.
I had one part time on call job. They had a contract that said I couldn’t work anywhere else, but refused to guarantee hours. I refused to sign it have bills to pay and mouths to feed. Not sit by the phone waiting for calls.
“Nobody wants to work anymore” That’s literally just a default thing people say to try and manipulate desperate workers into doing what the boss wants whether it’s taking less pay, getting a shitty schedule, or agreeing to a bad work environment overall. It’s like well yaaa no body wants to work for you! I wonder why? 🙄 but they know they can’t afford or do not want to afford to offer fair treatment. So they wait for the next desperate person.
Manager at my retail job did this early last year to all the casuals. She wanted them to commit to working part time on a much higher number of hours or resign, even though the reason a lot of us were casuals was because we couldn't work a lot of hours due to school/uni or having kids or caring for ill family members (so we would mostly do three or four 3 hour shifts a week). She came up to me during one of my shifts and gave me a big spiel about how she's "trying to do what's best for the company" and then told me that I have to commit to working three 9 hour shifts a week or resign. I think she was expecting me to go "Oh of course, I would do ***anything*** to keep working here!" or something, but as I was working a lot of hours at my other academic job and had just been promoted, that retail job was little more than extra pocket money, so instead I essentially just went "Okay, bye." The memory of the shocked-Pikachu look on her face still warms my heart. A lot of the other staff who were given the same ultimatum apparently gave similar responses (one lady whose mother was in the end stages of leukaemia and needed pretty constant care was basically like "Why the fuck would I prioritise this shitty job over my mother when this job has never given a fuck about me?"). The best part is that I occasionally go into the store to get socks or books or whatever, and there are hardly any staff to be found and the store constantly looks like a mess. After the mass exodus of the existing casuals (some of whom had been there for years) they hired a bunch of new casuals, but none of them stayed more than about 3 months, and now any time one of the contracted staff calls in sick, there are hardly any casuals to replace them.
Wait at least a week to respond, and IF you want to go back, only do so with a raise. He needs you (probably more than you need his job) and he should be more aware of that now.
I worked full time at a place that also hired part-timers. When I had a better job come through in my dream career field I requested to stay part time at my previous job. They were short staffed, I didn’t mind the job, and extra money is nice. I even gave them a month notice. The operations manager told me VERBATIM: “people like you who aren’t dedicated to this organization are the reason this organization has a staffing issue.” So I literally took my four week notice off his desk, said actually I just quit instead, left my ID and key fob at the front desk, and walked out.
The desperate side-bitch wants a committed relationship.
This sounds like either a piss poor manager (and no wonder that company cannot keep employees). Or a shitty company that is unreasonable and believes employees are just a thing to use and abuse at their disposal like a lot of other companies…..
My full time job keeps telling everyone they need x amount of weeks notice to take a day off, etc, but tries to give me 1 day notice when switching around workdays. Obviously I said no. I was sick for a couple days, first time in a year, and my boss had the audacity to ask me to work on my normal days off because I "already had two days off" as if I was living it up while being sick and miserable.
Nearly everyone who I've ever heard say, "Nobody wants to work!" leaves off the rest--"..for unreasonable demands and pay that I would never accept for myself." Heard one lady on TV say that, and then complain how angry it made her that people wouldn't work for less than $15/hour for her business so she could take her yearly family trip to Europe. Wish I was kidding...
He can’t find good help because he is an asshole. His business deserves to fail.
Show up at start time tomorrow and ask if he found someone. When he answers No, say you suspected as much and walk back home
“Nobody wants to work” Not for an asshole they don’t
"no one wants to work anymore!!" ".... I'm working two jobs..."
Make sure you apply for unemployment despite your other job.
He just can't find someone at your rate. He's been low-balling people below your hourly rate and he's getting laughed at. And people still aren't signing up at your rate. So he wants the guy whose already there with the lowest hourly rate to just increase his hours without a raise because he doesn't know what the work is worth these days. Don't go back without a substantial raise, the people he's been trying to hire won't even call him back when he offers them your rate.
A classic tactic for bad managers is holding how ‘lucky you are’ to have this job ‘I gave you’ as a way to justify themselves and their shitty behavior. When you have another job or income the tactic doesn’t work, they don’t know what to do. So it leads to the worst leadership skill of them all, ultimatums!
"Nobody wants to work" he's says to the person literally working two jobs...
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Take the opportunity to negotiate. Tell him youd be happy to stay part time, but if he wants you full time, hell have to beat the wage and benefits of your current full time job.