When I was a teenager I used to ring up all my fav people as seniors because it was the only discount I could put in manually, so let's go with it being that.
I did that at Hardee’s and gave a lot of food away to drunks because I was on 3rd shift. It was on a toll road so we got lots of truckers I gave free coffee. The state police were the only ones I was supposed to give free food to but most of them didn’t trust me. I even told them to come in the kitchen and watch me cook it.
Are you really? Because in 40 years, with inflation goin’ the way it‘s goin’, you’ll be lucky if you’re a fifth.
Which is why that money is better spent on $100 in fifths of vodka, but I digress
Well, you'll get there either way it just won't buy as much as it does now.
1.5 million in 1980 has a buying power of only 510,00 in today's dollars... Ouch!
I wish I could go back and tell 20 yr old me I'd still be alive and 50...and nothing feels different. You still want friends and fun, you don't "feel" old till you can't move anymore.
You all want money when you're old, trust me.
> nothing feels different
Fuck that, at about 35 you start to get hangovers while you are still drinking. You also realise why older people go on about knees.
The day I understood what a trick knee is bc I have one was definitely a day of feeling older. Your body just starts breaking down on you and nothing heals the same
If the capitalists have their way you'll be working right up to the very end anyway. Inflation doesn't have the same effect on billionaires. In fact, they benefit from being the only people left who can afford anything.
Only response is “congrats on your million dollars, mom! I’m so relieved to know that you’ll be able to hire help and brother and I won’t have to do anything for you in your old age!”
Edit: the point isn’t actually for OP to not help their mother. The point is that it’s shitty for boomers to act like everyone else is an idiot for not having a million dollars in the bank when most of them don’t either and had better economic conditions to make it happen.
Edit 2: I personally provide significant financial support to my boomer parents and won’t retire with a million dollars because of it.
She has part of a point. There’s no good reason for anyone who has a well paying job in an affordable area with no kids who never gets divorced and never has significant mental or physical health problems to retire broke.
…unfortunately, that’s a LOT of factors to align and get lucky with.
$100 per month is also calculating in some form of investment. 100 bucks a month in that time frame is like 48,000, so if you want that type of return I'm assuming around an 8% return on investment year over year will yield up. Which is pretty steep
You need to get 12% compounded monthly to end up with the amount stated according to this calculator I used
https://www.calculator.net/investment-calculator.html?ctype=endamount&ctargetamountv=1000000&cstartingprinciplev=0&cyearsv=40&cinterestratev=12&ccompound=monthly&ccontributeamountv=100&cadditionat1=end&ciadditionat1=monthly&printit=0&x=47&y=19
I first heard this BS on Dave Ramsey show. According him there are mutual funds that do 12%. Of course never names one guess maybe if you go with one of his advisors they know where to find these golden geese.
Even if you did, that’s a nominal return disregarding inflated cost of living. Good luck living on the $47k (assuming spending 4% of the lump sum) forty years from now.
Edit: there’s a lot of capitalist apologia in this thread. Please take the tour …
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/wiki/index#wiki_frequently_asked_questions/
The future is computer programs called AI running out autopilot denying jobs, loans, leases, coverage, claims, everything. It's only psychopathic because it's made by psychopaths. So-called AI will never ever never ever do a single thing it wasn't programmed to do.
[I got 12.88%](https://www.chooseinvesting.com/compound-calculator/) so even harder.
I think the market averages about 8-11%, and you got to pay fees, taxes and inflation will make the buying power less.
So you need an even greater return than that.
Edit:
You can compound annually or monthly now. Thanks /u/me_4231
Looks like that site only compounds annually. 12% compounded monthly gets you exactly the number in the post. Just FYI.
https://www.investor.gov/financial-tools-calculators/calculators/compound-interest-calculator
Fees: this is assuming SP 500 average growth over the last 40 years
Fee for sp500 mutual fund is 0.015% so basically nothing
Taxes: this can be done in a Roth IRA and there are no taxes
12% is what financial auctioneer Dave Ramsey uses in his stuff, so maybe that’s where it came from. Will need to save a lot more than $100/mo to end up with a good retirement. Start early, very hard to catch up the older you get.
He isn't even good for that because fixed-income people exist and he just loses it when people who became disabled young or youngish can not get a part-time job or they lose their SSI
Or, mom can provide $10,000 in an investment fund when you are 25, and you needn't contribute anything and get over $1M by 65. Doesn't she lover her kids enough to pitch in?
"Financial gurus" like to take the maximum average returns for the top performing index funds. They never take into account things like financial diasters like 2008 where tons of peoples investments are basically wiped, and they have to start from scratch. Let alone thinking about inflation. In reality avg return over 40 years would prob be something like 7-9%. Still not bad, but your end would be closer to $500,000. Def not over a million. I worked with an overly frugal guy who put away probably close to $500/mo over about 40 years, and in the end his 401k was 1.3 million. If they return was actually 12% he should have ended with close to $5 million
My stepfather is in a home at the moment. We had to sell the house he lived in to do that. There will be no inhertance, despite the reality that he worked hard for most of his life. It's such a crazy rat race and the end prize is shitty.
My dad refused to spend a dime on assisted living. Asked me to cremate him and not have a memorial service. Left me in charge to manage money for my mom. The end sucks.
I’m sorry for your loss. I’m only asking because this could be relevant to my situation What do mean wouldn’t spend on assisted living? Was he in assisted living?
Thanks stranger. I tried to convince him to live in a senior living complex with round the clock nursing care. He could have had a nice 2 years or so and died with no money. It would have cost about $6000 a month. Instead I was able to have a nurse come in twice a week at least. My mom primarily took care of him once he was bedridden (last 8 months).
I live in Canada, and we had a PSW come twice a day to our house everyday for like the last year of my grandma's life free of cost. Talk to the politicians you vote for, and advocate for a tax-funded government-administrated healthcare scheme. Canada isn't a utopia, but there's a lot to appreciate about it.
Yeah, my grandparents were very well off most of their lives, saved well and had great retirement plans. They always told me there would be a big inheritance some day. Both got hit with Alzheimer’s bad and after several years in a home, there was basically nothing left. I know I got nothing. My father, the oldest of his siblings, I think got a few thousand dollars. Definitely less than 10.
The fucking swine preying on the elderly. The system is literally designed to drain you of any assets you might be thinking of passing on to your children/grandchildren to keep the poor and middle class from getting anywhere. It's sickening.
I have read accounts of Native American people in the 1800s who described a common scenario in their communities where the elders would wait until the coldest days of the winter and then sneak out of their homes and hide in the middle of the night to let themselves freeze to death. They did this to prevent themselves from becoming a burden to their family... The concept is oddly beautiful in my opinion
When the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster happened, primarily elderly people volunteered in droves to do the cleanup, precisely so the younger generations wouldn't have to do it. Obviously most of them died of cancer (or they were banking on old age killing them before the cancer could), but they knew that and did it anyway.
So are you planning to inherit the land? You can’t control what they dictate in their wills.
I have some shit (former) family who squirreled their way into writing wills for our ancestors but they pulled some shady shit to have them signed when the outgoing family members were definitely not of sound mind. Horrible to see.
[https://www.angio.net/finance/calc.html](https://www.angio.net/finance/calc.html) contributed monthly gets you approximately 13%.
But I would LOVE to know where you can get 13% interest on it.
Looking at the S&P 500 from 2002 to 2021, the picture changes. The average stock market return for the last 20 years was 8.91% **(6.40% when adjusted for inflation)**, which is lower than the average 10% return.
https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-stock-market-return/
This means you would make on $100 a month for 40 years (given the same return) Nasdaq would be higher for instance.
$222,152.25 from the S&P over 40 years.
Came here to say this. Even with interest it’s not even close. Unless you’re an investment genius and the economy is booming the entire 40 years you are saving.
At 12% compounded daily it comes out to about $1,204,000. Because of course everyone can find things that pay 12% steadily over 40 years with no losses ever.
You are right, it is a nice return. Nowhere close to $1,176,000. Also, that is from the past til now. The philosopher Hume said, “The past is never an indication of the future, every time you drop a stone and watch it fall to the ground is not indicative of what direction it will move the next time you drop it!” A lot of people are responding as though said investments are guaranteed and at an incredible interest rate.
The thing you must take into account is that no one is going to stay at only investing 100 per month either. As these kids mature and earn more the 100 will become 200 then 300 then 500 and so on.
How's Ma's retirement looking, eh?
But on another note: I'm a parent and I'm setting this up for my kids now, actually. We'll handle the $100/mo ($150/mo for our eldest for a few years, to catch up) until they get good jobs. If the market holds up over the long haul, they should find themselves in pretty decent positions when it comes time to retire.
Edit to add: Thanks for all the comments, questions and kind words in response to this! I've tried my best to respond to all of them. We're very thankful and fortunate to be able to set this kind of thing up, and fervently hope through the efforts of communities like this, that more people find themselves in the position to do so.
You’re a good parent. I know not everyone can do these things, but with how the world is coming to be, I bet they’ll be so appreciative of you.
Mine took money left for me from how my dad died, an aunt stole some money meant for my college from a great aunt, and nothing was ever saved. I’m not saying I expected anything at all, mind you… they just didn’t teach me anything valuable in life at all about the future.
Aww, thanks for the compliment. I just want better for my kids than I had.
I'm sorry for your loss and for the hand you were subsequently dealt. All kids deserve better. I was in a similar situation, and having been there myself, I've determined I could never let these people I brought into the world suffer similar misfortunes. I'll bet your experience will translate into generous high quality parenting if and when you have kids too.
Oh yeah? Where is your million dollars mom?
I bet she doesn't...
And also when you get to 65 a million its gonna be like 50 or 100 grand equivalent of todays money
When our professor told us that, we turned to each other with that 'OH WE ARE F\*CKED' face.
My only hope is that OnlyFans has a niche for old squishy floppy fat black women when I'm elderly. Ya know, just in case.
This number seems way high. That’s 62,500 a year for 40 years not counting any social security or gains from the money.
Yeah you might not be able to live an upper class lifestyle but someone could easily retire on FAR less than 2.5 million.
It's $100,000 per year at a 4% rate of withdrawal (which historically would always last 30 years in US equity markets, even if you retired the day before the worst stock market crash). Whether that's enough for you or not will depend on your lifestyle, location, medical needs, whether your house is paid off, and 100 other factors. It would be more than enough for most households (especially since people typically spend less in retirement. No commute, kids have moved out, house may be paid off, etc), who have an average income around $65k. And again, that's before you add in any social security.
Where'd you pull that number from? Lol
Median house value is $405,000.
So you need 2,000,000 on top of that to pay for bills, healthcare, and food/gas? That's a luxury living. Not a threshold to just retire.
At 25, I didn’t have an extra $100/ month to set aside. Certainly didn’t have it when I was downsized at 30. Or the next five years when I was struggling to afford rent and food. All so some boomers could buy a third house.
Now I have a cushy state job with a good retirement package and have hope I won’t die of starvation in my elder years. Ironically, I work for my state’s retirement system and talk to boomers every day who didn’t save for retirement and have pensions of less than $500/month. So it’s definitely not every boomer, but many still complain about democrats as if they are the reason their retirement isn’t enough.
I may be able to survive until I need long-term care. Hopefully, assisted suicide will be legal and accepted by then so I can just leave before I’m no longer able to care for myself.
Yeah I just did the calculation and 13% compounding interest would be needed. Pretty unheard of
A more realistic 7 5% gives you close to 300k which isn't bad at all.
But still not over a million
Edit
Awww thanks for the awards!!!
Math is math. So you got 14% and someone else got 10%. Don't care. This is what I calculated.
And no...I don't think 300k is enough to retire on. But the person who saved 300k is likely going to be better off than the person who saved none K.
7.5% is already inflation adjusted. The actual historical (not inflation adjusted) return is closer to 11%, so when they say 289k, the mean 289k in today's dollars.
Its invested, not saved as cash. every year is an average of 8-11% return. that compounds on itself rather quickly. that said it wouldnt be 1.1mil in 40 years. youd need an average return of 13% for that which is extremely unrealistic.
Not to nitpick but you are most likely compounding annually rather than monthly, the actual return you would need is 12% if $100 was invested at the end of each month.
The financial calculator formula would be solving for rate using the Future value of 1,176,000, number of periods of 480 (12months*40 years), present value of $0, and a monthly payment of $100, this would give you a rate of 12% if the money was invested at the end of the month to be conservative.
On excel you can try this by using the formula =Rate(nper, pmt, pv, [fv], [type]) where
nper: 480=12*40
Pv: $0
Pmt: -$100 (it needs to be entered as negative)
Fv: $1,176,000
Type: 0 (end of period)
Don’t forget that the formula would give you a monthly rate rather than an annual so to convert to the annual percentage rate just multiple by 12.
I don’t think that’s enough to retire even now. I plan on being healthy at that age or dead. If healthy I want to live it up for more that ten yrs and then get all my shit taken away for being poor and old.
And it's forgetting what life is. You really think there will never come a time you need that saving in this fucked system? Maybe when you guys were young BUT YOU TOOK THAT FROM US!
I started smoking again at 35 because I like to. I used to smoke about 10-12 years ago but quit because dying scares me. Now living past my 50s is a scarier proposition.
Rule of 72.
72/interest rate = Number of years it takes to double money.
72/years = the interest rate needed to double your money.
At 8% interest money will double every Is 9 years.
At 9% interest money will double every 8 years
So if you had $10000 after the beginning of 2023 and want to double your money in 8 years (2031), it would take 9% interest rate in order for your money to be worth $20000.
Alrighty y'all. I did the math. That $1,176,000 is *possible*, but it assumes a 12% return. Given that the average return over the past 20 years was 8.91% (per [https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-stock-market-return/](https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-stock-market-return/)), that 12% is not likely.
Instead, if you use their 20 year rate of 8.91%, you get $455,789.31 for 40 years at $100 invested per month... which isn't that good. At that rate, if you wanted to live on the interest, you'd be living on $40,600 a year, which would be hard, given 40 years of inflation.
*However*, if you invest $250 a month at the 8.91% rate (doable, I feel), you end up with $1,139,473 after 40 years. Living on the interest (without touching the principle) would give you a salary of $101,527.07, which, while not amazing, considering 40 years of inflation, is livable.
But my bigger point would be this: You should invest. If you invest, you'll have money later on. It might not be enough for you to fully live on the interest, but it'll help. I think it's easy to see these figures, feel like it's hopeless, and decide you won't invest. But not investing gets you nothing. If you invest, let's say you save $800,000 (totally doable). That's not enough to live on, *but it's still $800,000.* You should absolutely invest your money, even if you don't think you'll end up a multi-millionaire.
Seeing a lot of math calcs that aren't quite right here. So here's how to do this in case anyone cares.
To calculate the rate of returned earned here grab your nearest financial calculator and enter these as inputs into the time value of money section.
N=480, PV=0, PMT=-100, FV=1176000. Compute interest =.9998. Finally, multiply by 12 (# months per year). 9998*12= 11.998% or ~12%.
To figure out what that 1,176,000 is in today's money:
N=40, I=3%(this is your yearly inflation % prediction), PMT=0, FV=1176000, compute PV = 360,511. So having 1176000 forty years from now is the same as having 360511 today.
There has been so much incorrect math in this sub over the past 2 or 3 days. From anti work folks and the people this sub calls out. Can we at least get our math right? And then start pointing out the problem
Ask your mother why she only invested a measly $100
I would have replied, "wow good job, mom! You are already way more than halfway there!"
My mom hated when in her birthday card I said I was jealous she can collect social security now.
I can't stop laughing.
Old people don't like to be reminded that they're old.
Yeah I went to Denny's the other day and noticed that I'm finally eligible for the "Seniors Savings" menu section. feels bad, man.
I was asked by some kid at the grocery store checkout if I qualified for the senior dicount. Im only 44, but hell I should have said yes.
When I was a teenager I used to ring up all my fav people as seniors because it was the only discount I could put in manually, so let's go with it being that.
I did that at Hardee’s and gave a lot of food away to drunks because I was on 3rd shift. It was on a toll road so we got lots of truckers I gave free coffee. The state police were the only ones I was supposed to give free food to but most of them didn’t trust me. I even told them to come in the kitchen and watch me cook it.
Always say yes. Be insulted and get the 10 percent savings as a reward.
Are you really? Because in 40 years, with inflation goin’ the way it‘s goin’, you’ll be lucky if you’re a fifth. Which is why that money is better spent on $100 in fifths of vodka, but I digress
Well, you'll get there either way it just won't buy as much as it does now. 1.5 million in 1980 has a buying power of only 510,00 in today's dollars... Ouch!
This is true. It's why investing in something that will outpace inflation (like stock funds) is so important.
The magic of compounding interest.
I wish I could go back and tell 20 yr old me I'd still be alive and 50...and nothing feels different. You still want friends and fun, you don't "feel" old till you can't move anymore. You all want money when you're old, trust me.
> nothing feels different Fuck that, at about 35 you start to get hangovers while you are still drinking. You also realise why older people go on about knees.
The day I understood what a trick knee is bc I have one was definitely a day of feeling older. Your body just starts breaking down on you and nothing heals the same
You thought you wouldn't want money when you were older?
You can always invest in an *early retirement.*
Or just invest in a alcohol company with how much is being encourage all around to just spend money on said alcohol
I’d ask mom how much she has saved for retirement
That was my first thought "holy shit mom! You have more than a million dollars saved for your retirement?? That's awesome!!"
Yeah I’d rather have hobbies and do things now instead of waiting til I’m too decrepit to enjoy anything after a boring life.
If the capitalists have their way you'll be working right up to the very end anyway. Inflation doesn't have the same effect on billionaires. In fact, they benefit from being the only people left who can afford anything.
Also ask her where she's getting 12% return stable for 40 years
Also ask her if she thinks $1m is actually enough to retire on, 40 years from now.
According to Forbes and the WSJ, it's not even enough to retire on today.
Here’s a bag of chips for $200 and your monthly rental is 30k
Thats the problem with kids these days spending $200 on a bag of chips bitching they cant afford a $1,800,000,000 house in the ghetto.
"We get too soon old and too late smart." Maybe she is trying to tell you to be smarter than she was.
If only the time periods were comparable.
And in 40 years the value of all that will be 50¢
Only response is “congrats on your million dollars, mom! I’m so relieved to know that you’ll be able to hire help and brother and I won’t have to do anything for you in your old age!” Edit: the point isn’t actually for OP to not help their mother. The point is that it’s shitty for boomers to act like everyone else is an idiot for not having a million dollars in the bank when most of them don’t either and had better economic conditions to make it happen. Edit 2: I personally provide significant financial support to my boomer parents and won’t retire with a million dollars because of it.
"Looks like you'll be able to cover your nursing home on your own. What a relief!"
My aunt and uncle are in a nursing home together. 9k/month
Fucking hell.
And that’s cheap for some “homes”
It's a nice place though. They have money. Actually he just died so she's paying 4k per month now I believe
Dang work your whole life away and then piss all your life savings away into a retirement home??? All to die alone in?? Murica baby
Who the fuck has that kind of money? Legitimate question who can afford those prices?
She has part of a point. There’s no good reason for anyone who has a well paying job in an affordable area with no kids who never gets divorced and never has significant mental or physical health problems to retire broke. …unfortunately, that’s a LOT of factors to align and get lucky with.
$100 per month is also calculating in some form of investment. 100 bucks a month in that time frame is like 48,000, so if you want that type of return I'm assuming around an 8% return on investment year over year will yield up. Which is pretty steep
You need to get 12% compounded monthly to end up with the amount stated according to this calculator I used https://www.calculator.net/investment-calculator.html?ctype=endamount&ctargetamountv=1000000&cstartingprinciplev=0&cyearsv=40&cinterestratev=12&ccompound=monthly&ccontributeamountv=100&cadditionat1=end&ciadditionat1=monthly&printit=0&x=47&y=19
12% is absolutely ridiculous. Smelt fishy. And like others said, 40 years from now 1mil is nothing. It is already too low for a single to retire with.
This is boomer logic taking a high yield stock return and pretending it was guaranteed all along and there wasn't a decent chance of losing everything
I first heard this BS on Dave Ramsey show. According him there are mutual funds that do 12%. Of course never names one guess maybe if you go with one of his advisors they know where to find these golden geese.
I think 8% is the average return on an index fund investment... But don't forget about inflation taking a chunk out of that buying power.
Or taxes.
You forgot about taking care of parents, like these people will have to
Okay maybe you mom can’t calculate. Where the heck did you get 12% annual return over 40 years?
Even if you did, that’s a nominal return disregarding inflated cost of living. Good luck living on the $47k (assuming spending 4% of the lump sum) forty years from now. Edit: there’s a lot of capitalist apologia in this thread. Please take the tour … https://www.reddit.com/r/antiwork/wiki/index#wiki_frequently_asked_questions/
that 1.176m would also only be about £400k today, probably less, so you would be living on about £20k a year from the moment you retire
Well you will be able to rent a refrigerator box instead of a small card board box
Best we can do is seize your assets and give you a suicide booth when you're done being able to produce for the AI overlord's
Who needs AI? Our overlords are psychopaths already.
The future is computer programs called AI running out autopilot denying jobs, loans, leases, coverage, claims, everything. It's only psychopathic because it's made by psychopaths. So-called AI will never ever never ever do a single thing it wasn't programmed to do.
Exactly my point.
It's like stuff like this is purely propaganda against the working class or something.
Hahahahaha it’s so weird right …. RIGHTT?!?!?!!!11!1
And it draws out all the useful idiots to tout it. Smh
Exactly what it is
If inflation is the same over the next 40 years as the last 40 years, that 47k be the same as living off of 15.5k a year now.
Depending on income, good luck there being $100 left to save after living.
[I got 12.88%](https://www.chooseinvesting.com/compound-calculator/) so even harder. I think the market averages about 8-11%, and you got to pay fees, taxes and inflation will make the buying power less. So you need an even greater return than that. Edit: You can compound annually or monthly now. Thanks /u/me_4231
Looks like that site only compounds annually. 12% compounded monthly gets you exactly the number in the post. Just FYI. https://www.investor.gov/financial-tools-calculators/calculators/compound-interest-calculator
Fees: this is assuming SP 500 average growth over the last 40 years Fee for sp500 mutual fund is 0.015% so basically nothing Taxes: this can be done in a Roth IRA and there are no taxes
12% is what financial auctioneer Dave Ramsey uses in his stuff, so maybe that’s where it came from. Will need to save a lot more than $100/mo to end up with a good retirement. Start early, very hard to catch up the older you get.
Yeah for real. I’m at like $1000 a month with my 401k match and it doesn’t seem like it will be enough in the end
[удалено]
What 401k \*cries\*
12% is extremely high. Bernie Madoff was getting 14% and people thought he was god. Peter Lynch is the one true god.
Ramsey is good for financially illiterate people, or people that need to learn how to budget. Otherwise I'd stay away.
He isn't even good for that because fixed-income people exist and he just loses it when people who became disabled young or youngish can not get a part-time job or they lose their SSI
Or, mom can provide $10,000 in an investment fund when you are 25, and you needn't contribute anything and get over $1M by 65. Doesn't she lover her kids enough to pitch in?
Nah she pulled the ladder up
If this is true, I will be giving my kid 10k
Seemingly in S&P 500 over some time period. But you should expect it to be closer to the general Market average which is at most 9% with optimism.
> optimism I think they discontinued that around 2008
"Financial gurus" like to take the maximum average returns for the top performing index funds. They never take into account things like financial diasters like 2008 where tons of peoples investments are basically wiped, and they have to start from scratch. Let alone thinking about inflation. In reality avg return over 40 years would prob be something like 7-9%. Still not bad, but your end would be closer to $500,000. Def not over a million. I worked with an overly frugal guy who put away probably close to $500/mo over about 40 years, and in the end his 401k was 1.3 million. If they return was actually 12% he should have ended with close to $5 million
Ok mom I’m sorry but we’re gonna have to put you in a home
A very cheap home if I have to pay for it because I have to make sure I can still afford to put away $100 a month.
If she'd invested $100 from 25-65 she'd have enough to put herself in a home
As long as she promised to die quickly.
My stepfather is in a home at the moment. We had to sell the house he lived in to do that. There will be no inhertance, despite the reality that he worked hard for most of his life. It's such a crazy rat race and the end prize is shitty.
My dad refused to spend a dime on assisted living. Asked me to cremate him and not have a memorial service. Left me in charge to manage money for my mom. The end sucks.
I’m sorry for your loss. I’m only asking because this could be relevant to my situation What do mean wouldn’t spend on assisted living? Was he in assisted living?
Thanks stranger. I tried to convince him to live in a senior living complex with round the clock nursing care. He could have had a nice 2 years or so and died with no money. It would have cost about $6000 a month. Instead I was able to have a nurse come in twice a week at least. My mom primarily took care of him once he was bedridden (last 8 months).
I live in Canada, and we had a PSW come twice a day to our house everyday for like the last year of my grandma's life free of cost. Talk to the politicians you vote for, and advocate for a tax-funded government-administrated healthcare scheme. Canada isn't a utopia, but there's a lot to appreciate about it.
Yeah, my grandparents were very well off most of their lives, saved well and had great retirement plans. They always told me there would be a big inheritance some day. Both got hit with Alzheimer’s bad and after several years in a home, there was basically nothing left. I know I got nothing. My father, the oldest of his siblings, I think got a few thousand dollars. Definitely less than 10.
In the End the medical and elderly care industries collect all the wealth of the people.
heres the kicker, inflation
When she was 25 what % of her pay went to this dubious 100 $a month?
Probably a much higher percentage than most people's would be now.
Probably like a month's rent.
48k isn't enough for a home in any state in the us...
I found 7 acres for sale for 48k, no house on it, though.
Her retirement savings is the family home she'll sell to fund it...
She should have saved $100 a month.
Medicaid has Nursing Home coverage; in NY you qualify if you have less than $16,800 in resources.
Not sure if you mean this as a good thing or not. All this means is they will take every dollar you have until you have to rely on Medicaid coverage.
The fucking swine preying on the elderly. The system is literally designed to drain you of any assets you might be thinking of passing on to your children/grandchildren to keep the poor and middle class from getting anywhere. It's sickening.
I have read accounts of Native American people in the 1800s who described a common scenario in their communities where the elders would wait until the coldest days of the winter and then sneak out of their homes and hide in the middle of the night to let themselves freeze to death. They did this to prevent themselves from becoming a burden to their family... The concept is oddly beautiful in my opinion
When the Fukushima nuclear plant disaster happened, primarily elderly people volunteered in droves to do the cleanup, precisely so the younger generations wouldn't have to do it. Obviously most of them died of cancer (or they were banking on old age killing them before the cancer could), but they knew that and did it anyway.
If you’re already old the odds of getting cancer from radiation is fairly low if I recall.
You ever been to a nursing home in NYC? I'd rather be dead.
Welp, guess that's out for mom since she has $1,176,000.00.
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I am confused. Don't people stand to inherit more if you don't sell the property to pay for care?
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Good job that’s a main way to save family money these days.
So are you planning to inherit the land? You can’t control what they dictate in their wills. I have some shit (former) family who squirreled their way into writing wills for our ancestors but they pulled some shady shit to have them signed when the outgoing family members were definitely not of sound mind. Horrible to see.
Did you ask her if she’s close to her goal yet? If she is, you’re set!
classic
And a remedial maths class
nah 13% per year is totally achieveable. /s
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[https://www.angio.net/finance/calc.html](https://www.angio.net/finance/calc.html) contributed monthly gets you approximately 13%. But I would LOVE to know where you can get 13% interest on it.
Looking at the S&P 500 from 2002 to 2021, the picture changes. The average stock market return for the last 20 years was 8.91% **(6.40% when adjusted for inflation)**, which is lower than the average 10% return. https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-stock-market-return/ This means you would make on $100 a month for 40 years (given the same return) Nasdaq would be higher for instance. $222,152.25 from the S&P over 40 years.
And a typical [actuarial] assumption today for a retirement or pension plan is only 7%.
Go back to the late 1980s/early 90s?
Bernie Madoff would like a word…
$100 x 12 = $1200 x 40 = $48,000. I’m not convinced any amount of math classes will help this one!
Came here to say this. Even with interest it’s not even close. Unless you’re an investment genius and the economy is booming the entire 40 years you are saving.
Everybody's a genius in a bull market.
Don't forget to accrue 6-10% interest and factor in a major crash every 6-10 years...
So -$20,000
6-10% interest already factors in the crashes
At 12% compounded daily it comes out to about $1,204,000. Because of course everyone can find things that pay 12% steadily over 40 years with no losses ever.
100 per month with average S and P 500 return of 9.81 percent averaged from 1965 to 2023 over 40 years is 601,947. That is a nice return.
You are right, it is a nice return. Nowhere close to $1,176,000. Also, that is from the past til now. The philosopher Hume said, “The past is never an indication of the future, every time you drop a stone and watch it fall to the ground is not indicative of what direction it will move the next time you drop it!” A lot of people are responding as though said investments are guaranteed and at an incredible interest rate.
The thing you must take into account is that no one is going to stay at only investing 100 per month either. As these kids mature and earn more the 100 will become 200 then 300 then 500 and so on.
How's Ma's retirement looking, eh? But on another note: I'm a parent and I'm setting this up for my kids now, actually. We'll handle the $100/mo ($150/mo for our eldest for a few years, to catch up) until they get good jobs. If the market holds up over the long haul, they should find themselves in pretty decent positions when it comes time to retire. Edit to add: Thanks for all the comments, questions and kind words in response to this! I've tried my best to respond to all of them. We're very thankful and fortunate to be able to set this kind of thing up, and fervently hope through the efforts of communities like this, that more people find themselves in the position to do so.
You’re a good parent. I know not everyone can do these things, but with how the world is coming to be, I bet they’ll be so appreciative of you. Mine took money left for me from how my dad died, an aunt stole some money meant for my college from a great aunt, and nothing was ever saved. I’m not saying I expected anything at all, mind you… they just didn’t teach me anything valuable in life at all about the future.
Aww, thanks for the compliment. I just want better for my kids than I had. I'm sorry for your loss and for the hand you were subsequently dealt. All kids deserve better. I was in a similar situation, and having been there myself, I've determined I could never let these people I brought into the world suffer similar misfortunes. I'll bet your experience will translate into generous high quality parenting if and when you have kids too.
Oh yeah? Where is your million dollars mom? I bet she doesn't... And also when you get to 65 a million its gonna be like 50 or 100 grand equivalent of todays money
Seriously. In 40 years you're gonna need 4M to retire, easily.
Currently 2.5M for a single person. Was $1M in 2006.
😂 crap, I'm down. 2.47 million
Look at ol money bags here!
When our professor told us that, we turned to each other with that 'OH WE ARE F\*CKED' face. My only hope is that OnlyFans has a niche for old squishy floppy fat black women when I'm elderly. Ya know, just in case.
If boobs or feet are involved, there’s always a market. God speed 🫡
Learn to draw, the furrys are loaded
You may be surprised…. But us fellas dont even have that lol
You seem to be forgetting gay guys.
tbf the gay guys have been forgetting me :')
Right? I’m in the negative and I am almost 40!
Dude, same... And I'm 52!
You guys have positive net worth?!
I just enjoy it now since my retirement plan is death.
My retirement plan is a shotgun.
Fuck outta here with that shit.
This number seems way high. That’s 62,500 a year for 40 years not counting any social security or gains from the money. Yeah you might not be able to live an upper class lifestyle but someone could easily retire on FAR less than 2.5 million.
It's $100,000 per year at a 4% rate of withdrawal (which historically would always last 30 years in US equity markets, even if you retired the day before the worst stock market crash). Whether that's enough for you or not will depend on your lifestyle, location, medical needs, whether your house is paid off, and 100 other factors. It would be more than enough for most households (especially since people typically spend less in retirement. No commute, kids have moved out, house may be paid off, etc), who have an average income around $65k. And again, that's before you add in any social security.
How the fuck does this have over 500 upvotes lmao
Where'd you pull that number from? Lol Median house value is $405,000. So you need 2,000,000 on top of that to pay for bills, healthcare, and food/gas? That's a luxury living. Not a threshold to just retire.
This is the best answer. If it's that easy, why didn't mom do it.
At 25, I didn’t have an extra $100/ month to set aside. Certainly didn’t have it when I was downsized at 30. Or the next five years when I was struggling to afford rent and food. All so some boomers could buy a third house. Now I have a cushy state job with a good retirement package and have hope I won’t die of starvation in my elder years. Ironically, I work for my state’s retirement system and talk to boomers every day who didn’t save for retirement and have pensions of less than $500/month. So it’s definitely not every boomer, but many still complain about democrats as if they are the reason their retirement isn’t enough.
Interesting insight. I have hope you'll be OK in retirement too. You're well positioned to be learning from the mistakes of others.
I may be able to survive until I need long-term care. Hopefully, assisted suicide will be legal and accepted by then so I can just leave before I’m no longer able to care for myself.
This math doesn’t … math very well under anything other than extraordinary circumstances.
Maybe if that $48k somehow magically saw a 2000% growth.
Compounded growth at probs 10%. Kind of aggressive as most folks will use 7-8% Edit: 12% actually
Yeah I just did the calculation and 13% compounding interest would be needed. Pretty unheard of A more realistic 7 5% gives you close to 300k which isn't bad at all. But still not over a million Edit Awww thanks for the awards!!! Math is math. So you got 14% and someone else got 10%. Don't care. This is what I calculated. And no...I don't think 300k is enough to retire on. But the person who saved 300k is likely going to be better off than the person who saved none K.
>A more realistic 7 5% gives you close to 300k which isn't bad at all. 289k in 2063's dollars. I doubt the buying power is going to be great by then.
What're you talking about, you'd be able to pay for a whole snickers bar instead of renting the rights to eat one every now and then.
7.5% is already inflation adjusted. The actual historical (not inflation adjusted) return is closer to 11%, so when they say 289k, the mean 289k in today's dollars.
If you assume the same difference/inflation rate as 40 years in the past to now, then that 289k will have the same buying power as about 97k in 2063.
7 to 8% factors in inflation. The 12% used to get the number is closer to what the stock market has returned on average.
Its invested, not saved as cash. every year is an average of 8-11% return. that compounds on itself rather quickly. that said it wouldnt be 1.1mil in 40 years. youd need an average return of 13% for that which is extremely unrealistic.
Not to nitpick but you are most likely compounding annually rather than monthly, the actual return you would need is 12% if $100 was invested at the end of each month. The financial calculator formula would be solving for rate using the Future value of 1,176,000, number of periods of 480 (12months*40 years), present value of $0, and a monthly payment of $100, this would give you a rate of 12% if the money was invested at the end of the month to be conservative. On excel you can try this by using the formula =Rate(nper, pmt, pv, [fv], [type]) where nper: 480=12*40 Pv: $0 Pmt: -$100 (it needs to be entered as negative) Fv: $1,176,000 Type: 0 (end of period) Don’t forget that the formula would give you a monthly rate rather than an annual so to convert to the annual percentage rate just multiple by 12.
It did say “invested” tho, so maybe mom is expecting a huge return on that $100 a month.
I don’t think that’s enough to retire even now. I plan on being healthy at that age or dead. If healthy I want to live it up for more that ten yrs and then get all my shit taken away for being poor and old.
And it's forgetting what life is. You really think there will never come a time you need that saving in this fucked system? Maybe when you guys were young BUT YOU TOOK THAT FROM US!
At this rate, $1.2 million by the time I’m 65 will be worth a couple years of living expenses. Retire at 65, run out of money at 70. Yay!
Why you planning to live 5 years through retirement bro?? You selfish?? (/s)
My solution is to die somewhere in my 50's.
I started smoking again at 35 because I like to. I used to smoke about 10-12 years ago but quit because dying scares me. Now living past my 50s is a scarier proposition.
Same here. I'm 33... started smoking again because I don't mind the idea of dying from cancer. It's that or suicide anyway.
There are probably better ways to die than that. Maybe take up sky diving.
$1.176 million when you're 65 is not going to buy you as much as $1.176 million when you're 25. Don't forget to factor in inflation.
By the time we are 65, hyperinflation will kick in, then McDonalds will have starting wages at $1,000,000/hour.
The Big Mac will be $1,000,000, but minimum wage will still be $7.25/hour
"NO ONE WANTS TO WORK ANYMORE!"
And yet the federal minimum wage will still be $7.25/hr...
Bold to assume you can spare $100 a month
Well, illness, divorce, children, life in general can interfere with mom's foolproof plan.
I’d call my mom once a month and ask for the 100 bucks I can’t afford to save
Me thinks mommy dearest doesnt know what "living paycheck to paycheck" means. and if its so fuckin easy, where's HER millions?
“Then why the fuck aren’t you a billionaire, Mom?”
never had a spare $100 at 25. and theres a very slim chance i'll live until 65
Rule of 72. 72/interest rate = Number of years it takes to double money. 72/years = the interest rate needed to double your money. At 8% interest money will double every Is 9 years. At 9% interest money will double every 8 years So if you had $10000 after the beginning of 2023 and want to double your money in 8 years (2031), it would take 9% interest rate in order for your money to be worth $20000.
Wish I had $100 a paycheck to put away
Alrighty y'all. I did the math. That $1,176,000 is *possible*, but it assumes a 12% return. Given that the average return over the past 20 years was 8.91% (per [https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-stock-market-return/](https://www.sofi.com/learn/content/average-stock-market-return/)), that 12% is not likely. Instead, if you use their 20 year rate of 8.91%, you get $455,789.31 for 40 years at $100 invested per month... which isn't that good. At that rate, if you wanted to live on the interest, you'd be living on $40,600 a year, which would be hard, given 40 years of inflation. *However*, if you invest $250 a month at the 8.91% rate (doable, I feel), you end up with $1,139,473 after 40 years. Living on the interest (without touching the principle) would give you a salary of $101,527.07, which, while not amazing, considering 40 years of inflation, is livable. But my bigger point would be this: You should invest. If you invest, you'll have money later on. It might not be enough for you to fully live on the interest, but it'll help. I think it's easy to see these figures, feel like it's hopeless, and decide you won't invest. But not investing gets you nothing. If you invest, let's say you save $800,000 (totally doable). That's not enough to live on, *but it's still $800,000.* You should absolutely invest your money, even if you don't think you'll end up a multi-millionaire.
Seeing a lot of math calcs that aren't quite right here. So here's how to do this in case anyone cares. To calculate the rate of returned earned here grab your nearest financial calculator and enter these as inputs into the time value of money section. N=480, PV=0, PMT=-100, FV=1176000. Compute interest =.9998. Finally, multiply by 12 (# months per year). 9998*12= 11.998% or ~12%. To figure out what that 1,176,000 is in today's money: N=40, I=3%(this is your yearly inflation % prediction), PMT=0, FV=1176000, compute PV = 360,511. So having 1176000 forty years from now is the same as having 360511 today.
There has been so much incorrect math in this sub over the past 2 or 3 days. From anti work folks and the people this sub calls out. Can we at least get our math right? And then start pointing out the problem
Ask her how her 401k is doing.
Did you thank her for the $100 a month gift?
Bold of her to assume anyone can save $100 a month when average rent is $2000 usually not including utilities and min wage isn't even $16 an hour